View Full Version : What hifi is all about
Listening to my double LP collection of Kinks' singles, I'm struck by the sheer power of their playing, even on their fairly rubbish pre 'You Really Got Me' tracks. I always thought these were thin, weedy recording, but they're actually very powerful, even if the playing is all over the place and Ray Davies has yet to find his voice.
Such discoveries, rather than the minutiae of hearing a previously-unnoticed triangle, are what hifi is all about for me.
I'm with ya there Joe, as I've said many times here, for me (and to be honest the vast majority here) the music is what matters, and hifi is a means to an end. I think the people who want hifi for hifi's sake (bragging rights, because a bloke down the pub suggested it, because I've got more money than sense) don't last long on AoS. That's not to say the equipment isn't important, but like anything in life, if you're not emotionally connected with the whole experience, what is the point?
magiccarpetride
22-06-2010, 21:58
I'm with ya there Joe, as I've said many times here, for me (and to be honest the vast majority here) the music is what matters, and hifi is a means to an end. I think the people who want hifi for hifi's sake (bragging rights, because a bloke down the pub suggested it, because I've got more money than sense) don't last long on AoS. That's not to say the equipment isn't important, but like anything in life, if you're not emotionally connected with the whole experience, what is the point?
Makes sense. Still, this forum is called "The Art of SOUND", not "The Art of MUSIC", is it not? When I log in here to see what's going on, I'm primarily expecting to hear a discussion on high quality sound (which may or may not figure in the music material). For a discussion on high quality music, I may opt to log on to a different community.
Makes sense. Still, this forum is called "The Art of SOUND", not "The Art of MUSIC", is it not? When I log in here to see what's going on, I'm primarily expecting to hear a discussion on high quality sound (which may or may not figure in the music material). For a discussion on high quality music, I may opt to log on to a different community.
The forum name 'The Art of Sound' is encompassing: as 'Sound' not only includes music, it also includes the spoken word, poetry, unaccompanied (a cappela) singing, bird song, humour, sound effects and radio plays. All of these are worthy of the best reproduction possible.
I would endorse Alex's statement: hi fi is only a means to an end, not an end in its own right - it's the recorded sound that matters!
Regards
HighFidelityGuy
22-06-2010, 23:03
if you're not emotionally connected with the whole experience, what is the point?
I'm with you on that point in particular.
Music is supposed to be all about creating an emotional response, whatever that response might be. If you're not getting drawn into the music emotionally then you're just listening to sounds coming out of a speaker. That might be enough for some people but not for me. :)
The Grand Wazoo
22-06-2010, 23:04
Absolutely Barry! Without the recordings, a hi-fi is just an expensive paperweight.
(.........and welcome back by the way!)
magiccarpetride
22-06-2010, 23:19
Absolutely Barry! Without the recordings, a hi-fi is just an expensive paperweight.
(.........and welcome back by the way!)
You don't need hi-fi to get emotionally involved in music. I remember as a kid I got very emotional when hearing good music even on the crappiest portable transistor radio.
You don't need hi-fi to get emotionally involved in music. I remember as a kid I got very emotional when hearing good music even on the crappiest portable transistor radio.
Can't disagree there Alex. Listening to stuff on the radio is probably where most of us started our love affair with music. This then lead to the building of an audio system to better reproduce those precious recordings - but the music came first, and always will.
Regards
Spectral Morn
23-06-2010, 00:06
Can't disagree there Alex. Listening to stuff on the radio is probably where most of us started our love affair with music. This then lead to the building of an audio system to better reproduce those precious recordings - but the music came first, and always will.
Regards
That's how I came to it and the influence of my Dad.
Regards D S D L
Makes sense. Still, this forum is called "The Art of SOUND", not "The Art of MUSIC", is it not?
Got me there buddy, I wrongly forgot those who are along for the ride because of the spoken word - I could be wrong (does happen! ;)) but I suspect quality reproduction is more important for music than for speech?
:wanker:Music? I make recordings of people on the toilet with high quality microphones hidden under the lid,then use my stereo to play back the deep gassy blasts and booms and the sweet sound of tinkle tinkle.A real hifi can capture the prerumble of the lower intestine and a good subwoofer really gives depth to every booming fart.
OK, can we agree that music is the point of the whole experiance and the knobs,dials and meters are just parts of the vehical that makes it happen?
Or do I need to elaberate on toilet humor till Marco puts us back on track?
Next will be debateing if all our albums,tapes,downloads and CD's really have anything on them at all ? Is the music only in our heads and if it is what differance could our stereo make, Head upgrades? a Music Matrix?
May I quietly add that I can listen to well known music on anything and make up for what's missing in the sound, BUT,,,, I do need a half decent stereo to reveal the subtlety in new music I don't know very well.
If the interest was music only, then integrated active speakers (you know the ones I'm thinking of) and a streaming or simple source would be all that's needed. For "us" though, a degree of separates' tweaking is important too, to gain the impossible holy grail of specialist audio. Can't express it the way I'd like, but hope you get the meaning.
There's lots of space between manicheism and nihilism in Hifi and music. :) There's even enough space for everybody. :eyebrows:
(that was my philosophical thought of this morning :o)
Listening to my double LP collection of Kinks' singles, I'm struck by the sheer power of their playing, even on their fairly rubbish pre 'You Really Got Me' tracks. I always thought these were thin, weedy recording, but they're actually very powerful, even if the playing is all over the place and Ray Davies has yet to find his voice.
Such discoveries, rather than the minutiae of hearing a previously-unnoticed triangle, are what hifi is all about for me.
I thought that was the point of a track like 'you really got me', to be all over the place. Surely that's what elevates its into something special - the contrast between the electric guitars and the slightly off-centre human interpretation of the song. :)
The Vinyl Adventure
23-06-2010, 11:28
this convo seems to come up quite a lot and loads of people seem to get them selves in a fuss saying it should be only about the music blah blah blah... well i take the point...
but why cant it be about all aspects of the hobby...
i like this hobby for
music ... pure just listening to choons i like
music ... hearing stuff in songs i havent heard before
music ... hearing how someone has recorded something and getting an isite in to why or how they did what they did
music ... hearing the passion or emotion in a singers voice or the subtlety's of how gently on piano key is pressed etc
hifi ... trying to make a system work together that sounds as close to real as i hear it
hifi ... owning something that i can take pride in its ownership... in my case i like to have bits of kit that are one offs ... it makes it seem more special and worth the expence
hifi and music ... having my mates round and listening to choons we like on a system im proud of
i could probably think of more too but my point is made i think
i suspect if people are honest with them selves they will agree
The Vinyl Adventure
23-06-2010, 11:34
as a side note to this ... il happily admit i show my kit off to people ... but i am never doing to say "look at what i have"
im just passionate about all this stuff and want to share that with people ... i want to show what i have achieved by being passionate ...
pride is suposed to be a sin... i think thats shit... pride is only a sin when your motives are to insite jealousy... im never trying to make people jelous i just like talking about what makes me tick... my hifi makes me tick so i like showing it to people....
im not sure why people dont understand that sort of thing...
i sometimes wonder if peoples lack of understanding of that sort of thing is what motivates tham to be so insistant that it is "all about the music" ... its just a convenient way to justify having the kit ... no one shound need to justify thier passion in my books... where would we be without passion for thing, ideas, ideology etc... the world would be a boring place... thats for sure!!
quadsugdenman
23-06-2010, 11:46
Spot on Hamish. It is the openess of this forum to all points of view regarding music, hifi and the enjoyment derived from ALL the aspects involved that makes it special. There are no RIGHT answers to the questions posed in this debate because there are none nor should there be!!! :lolsign:
Fantastic couple of posts there, Hamish - I'm with you 100% on that! :clap:
I think people are sometimes almost 'ashamed' to admit that they love good sound (and owning the kit responsible for creating it) just as much as they love good music. Both ideals are indeed not mutually exclusive..... ;)
The trick is to embrace and accept the former without losing sight of enjoying the latter, whilst acknowledging the latter as being ultimately the most important.
Marco.
The Vinyl Adventure
23-06-2010, 11:52
to quote ross in another thread talking about his car
Apart from Music this is my yellow pride and joy
thats a nice little fraze that "pride and joy"
its with a picture of his car at what looks like a show ... now if he is anything like me, i cant imagine for one minute he took that car to that show to say "look at what i have" in a way to insite jelousy ... i imgine he was there to show off what he had achieved etc... anyway ... you get my point
magiccarpetride
23-06-2010, 16:54
:wanker:Music? I make recordings of people on the toilet with high quality microphones hidden under the lid,then use my stereo to play back the deep gassy blasts and booms and the sweet sound of tinkle tinkle.A real hifi can capture the prerumble of the lower intestine and a good subwoofer really gives depth to every booming fart.
OK, can we agree that music is the point of the whole experiance and the knobs,dials and meters are just parts of the vehical that makes it happen?
Or do I need to elaberate on toilet humor till Marco puts us back on track?
Next will be debateing if all our albums,tapes,downloads and CD's really have anything on them at all ? Is the music only in our heads and if it is what differance could our stereo make, Head upgrades? a Music Matrix?
On the topic of music: there are very few sensual things in life that can measure up to the pleasure and to a lasting satisfaction one gets from the ability to reproduce, at the highest possible level, a stunning musical performance in one's home. Few things come close: sex with the woman you deeply love (but alas, the pleasure and satisfaction are very transient there), good food (lasts only until the digestion is over), beautiful garden. Name others...
The point is, satisfaction one gets from having a kick-ass audio system in their home that can faithfully reproduce, on demand, any music programme, is one of the most lasting, staying-with-you enjoyments money can buy. It definitely increases one's sense of well-being, and builds up an incredible body of robust self-esteem. No wonder this hobby is so bloody addictive!
That being said, I must confess here of being inflicted by the 'guilty pleasure' syndrome. What I mean by that is that, despite enjoying stellar music performances on my home audio, I also tend to play back recordings that do not contain any redeeming musical values, but are incredibly satisfying from the point of the quality of sound they contain. A case in point is Sade, for example. There is one song of hers that is just pure drivel ("Please Send Me Someone To Love"), however it sounds so realistic on my audio, that I cannot help but play it over and over. It gives me so much pleasure to hear how phenomenally well the track has been recorded, mixed, and mastered, even though the music is unbearably cheesy.
The only thing I don't enjoy listening to on my home audio would be the fart noises goraman brought up in his post :rolleyes:
I thought that was the point of a track like 'you really got me', to be all over the place. Surely that's what elevates its into something special - the contrast between the electric guitars and the slightly off-centre human interpretation of the song. :)
Oh sure,but I was referring to their earlier tracks, like 'Lover Not a Fighter' and 'Long Tall Shorty' which are nowhere near as 'together' as 'You Really Got Me' and where Ray Davies sounds like some bloke they dragged in off the street 10 minutes before the recording session.
i suspect if people are honest with them selves they will agree
I'm never honest with myself. I like to keep myself guessing.
Anyway, you missed out the most important thing: blue LEDs.
The Vinyl Adventure
23-06-2010, 20:21
I'm never honest with myself. I like to keep myself guessing.
Anyway, you missed out the most important thing: blue LEDs.
I prefer my uv purple ones! :)
I prefer my uv purple ones! :)
Ooh, decadent!
Goraman nailed it !!!
The only thing I enjoy listening to on my home audio would be the fart noises goraman brought up in his post :rolleyes: :ner:
I fixed your qoute to reflect what you really meant to say.:cool:
Okay, it looks like we're all in agreement with Joe's original point and yet ...
It seems to me there's, at least, a mismatch/some slippage/a complex relationship between the individual audiophile's (or whatever's) wants and needs kit-wise and the industry's. Doesn't the latter depend for its survival on engendering dissatisfaction, persuading us that we're not hearing as much as - or what - we should/could and that we really ought to be upgrading - more or less constantly?
No, I'm not saying it's all A Big Conspiracy but isn't the upgraditis/audiophilia nervosa thing absolutely essential for the firms to stay in business? We all play along to varying degrees, influenced by the shiny boxes and, no doubt, the camaraderie of consumption but ultimately constrained by the depths of our wallets and consciences (Do the kids really need those new shoes?).
I'm not sure where this leaves us but I can't help feeling that - sorry Marco et al - if we're hanging around here and elsewhere talking about 'it', maybe we're just not getting 'enough' - peak musical experiences, I mean, of course.
magiccarpetride
23-06-2010, 22:57
:ner:
I fixed your qoute to reflect what you really meant to say.:cool:
You're a fucking bully?
Makes sense. Still, this forum is called "The Art of SOUND", not "The Art of MUSIC", is it not? When I log in here to see what's going on, I'm primarily expecting to hear a discussion on high quality sound (which may or may not figure in the music material). For a discussion on high quality music, I may opt to log on to a different community.
I was just pointing out the sillyness in this post and haveing some fun with your reply.If I kicked up a little sand it wasen't aimed for your face.
So shake off your towel and open another beer...:cool:
BTW your reply about listening to songs you may not care for just because the recording is good did add a sensable explanation to your first post,on it's own it seemed to imply that music is irreluvent to hifi.I wasen't the only one to take it that way. So I poked a little fun,and teased you a little.
I'm not sure if that makes me a bully,but I have been called a *ss more than I can remember.
I don't mind getting my shins kicked now and then my self,a little freindly banter is always wecome. PEACE OUT...
magiccarpetride
24-06-2010, 16:25
I was just pointing out the sillyness in this post and haveing some fun with your reply.If I kicked up a little sand it wasen't aimed for your face.
So shake off your towel and open another beer...:cool:
BTW your reply about listening to songs you may not care for just because the recording is good did add a sensable explanation to your first post,on it's own it seemed to imply that music is irreluvent to hifi.I wasen't the only one to take it that way. So I poked a little fun,and teased you a little.
I'm not sure if that makes me a bully,but I have been called a *ss more than I can remember.
I don't mind getting my shins kicked now and then my self,a little freindly banter is always wecome. PEACE OUT...
Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. I was a bit edgy yesterday, after being cyber-bullied on another forum where the forum administrator, not liking how I disagree with him (and believe me, I've disagreed with him only in the factual sense, by providing facts to the contrary of his claims), banned me from the forum after violently lambasting me and not giving me a chance to retort etc. That kind of unilateral bullying sickens me, so please accept my apologies for lashing out like I did above.
And yes, peace out:)
Got me there buddy, I wrongly forgot those who are along for the ride because of the spoken word - I could be wrong (does happen! ;)) but I suspect quality reproduction is more important for music than for speech?
Yes, in many ways the reproduction of music makes more demands on the audio system; both in frequency range and dynamic range, and in PRaT.
But don't forget that our ears have evolved over a period of something like 1.5 million years to be particularly acute and sensitive to human speech. For that reason alone, I regard the correct reproduction of speech to be an essential test of any system - if a system can't get that right, then what price listening to songs?
Regards
Steve Toy
26-06-2010, 13:29
Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. I was a bit edgy yesterday, after being cyber-bullied on another forum where the forum administrator, not liking how I disagree with him (and believe me, I've disagreed with him only in the factual sense, by providing facts to the contrary of his claims), banned me from the forum after violently lambasting me and not giving me a chance to retort etc. That kind of unilateral bullying sickens me, so please accept my apologies for lashing out like I did above.
Link? Lets name and shame :eyebrows:
Yes, indeed! Who was this asshole? :wanker:
I was a bit edgy yesterday, after being cyber-bullied on another forum where the forum administrator, not liking how I disagree with him (and believe me, I've disagreed with him only in the factual sense, by providing facts to the contrary of his claims), banned me from the forum after violently lambasting me and not giving me a chance to retort etc.
Jeez, if I did that every time someone argued with me, there'd be no bugger left!! :lol:
Alex, perhaps you can now appreciate the rather unique and friendly way AOS is managed? :)
Marco.
Haselsh1
26-06-2010, 14:07
I've been thinking about this thread and have come to the conclusion that, my Hi-Fi is not my pride and joy but my Croft pre/power is in the same way that my Bronica SQ-A is. My music is definitely my pride and joy and I am very proud to love the music that I love. Like many, I am very lucky to love so many different types of music so that it becomes my pride and joy because it makes me unique in the way it makes you unique. Does that make any sense or is it just a load of bullshit...? It's what I'm feeling right now as I type but I can't explain further.
First and foremost I love music. Secondly I love my pre/power and my camera. Even without the Hi-Fi I would love music but would almost certainly play rather than listen. Having such a good Hi-Fi stops me from playing because I can't better what I listen to. Just a few thoughts.
Bronica SQ-A
How about some pics of the North Yorkshire National Park.
My home country!
magiccarpetride
28-06-2010, 16:37
Yes, indeed! Who was this asshole? :wanker:
Jeez, if I did that every time someone argued with me, there'd be no bugger left!! :lol:
Alex, perhaps you can now appreciate the rather unique and friendly way AOS is managed? :)
Marco.
Absolutely. This may indeed be the most democratic forum I've seen so far.
Democracy is itself founded on the concept of disagreement. Disagreement is a given, whenever you have a situation where two or more humans get together. So let's admit that fact right off the bat, and let's organize ourselves in such a way that we can all live with the inevitable disagreement. That's what being human essentially is, no?
magiccarpetride
28-06-2010, 16:39
Link? Lets name and shame :eyebrows:
Thanks for your support, Steve, but I don't want to supply any additional notoriety to such assholes. They're attention whores. Don't feed attention whores!
Steve Toy
29-06-2010, 16:47
I abandoned the principle of ignore them and they'll go away a long time ago. Adverse publicity is never welcome especially when the alternative isn't exactly no publicity anyway.
Absolutely. This may indeed be the most democratic forum I've seen so far.
Democracy is itself founded on the concept of disagreement. Disagreement is a given, whenever you have a situation where two or more humans get together. So let's admit that fact right off the bat, and let's organize ourselves in such a way that we can all live with the inevitable disagreement. That's what being human essentially is, no?
No, a true Democracy is mob rule! Majority rules right?
I like dictatorships by insaine rulers and twisted iodologs that change according to mood.
Hairatics are to be flogged and fleamed untill they are made saine and agree with the moderator.
What good is independant thought if it's wrong?
Anarchy is founded on disagreement,and every body knows that is more fun to watch...
This forum is a Monarchy with our truly benevolent King Marco at the royal thrown.:king:
LONG LIVE MARCO!!!
Sometimes, I hope people know me well enough to just grin and not take me to seriously.
Or someday the men in white coats will come and take me to a nice room with padded walls.
Hehehe.... You iz mad as a box of frogs, brovva, but we lurves ya! :eyebrows:
Marco.
magiccarpetride
01-07-2010, 14:34
Or someday the men in white coats will come and take me to a nice room with padded walls.
If you're lucky;)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.