Phonostage to headphone amp: RCA Y-splitters OR RCA swithbox OR IntAmp pre-out loop?

[Exophile]

I am getting a new TT (VPI Super Prime Scout with Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC*) and separate phono stage (Vincent PHO 701 with Brimar tube), which has single RCA out. I have an Rotel 1572 Integrated amp, and also a Woo WA6 SE headphone amp, which has two RCA ins.

I certainly have to run TT - Phonostage - Amp to play records via speakers, and also Amp pre-out - Woo for non TT sources.

If I want to listen to TT via headphones, what is better:
1) TT - Phonostage - Y-splitter cable - Woo
2) TT - Phonostage - Y-switch box - Woo
3) TT - Phonostage - Amp aux in - Amp pre out - Woo.

I have a couple of Tributaries Y-splitters sitting around. Looked at better quality, but Audioquest y-splitters look rather cheapo, too. Does that indicated that Y splitters are just a bad idea to begin with?
What I further do not understand is whether the signal strength gets halved by a Y-splitter, even if only one end is actively used. I listen either with amp and speakers OR with headphone amp and headphones, but not both at the same time. There are also splitter boxes like the Shiit SYS, which should dissipate any volume concerns.

Currently I am leaning towards AB switch box. Thanks for any info/opinions/experiences.

[Made in 1968]

Doesnt your amp have a tape out? if so connect your headphone amp to that.

[Exophile]

I guess tape out - pre out, and that was my option 3. I wonder whether running the signal through the main amp adds noise. Just occurred to me, not sure whether the amp needs to be on for Aux in - pre out to work. Will have to try that!

[Made in 1968]

Headphone units ive always plumbed into Tape output the Rotel amps Volume control will not turn the headphone amp vol up or down. The headphone amp would be totally independent,

[struth]

tape out will come as line level and not be through vc...

[Exophile]

The volume control on the Rotel 1572 DOES affect volume in pre-out/headphone amp (that is the label on the RCA outs, there is no "tape out" on the 1572, only a "aux in" and "pre out": see http://www.rotel.com/sites/default/files/product/manuals/RA-1572-OM_0.pdf page 3 #11 and #13 respectively).
Or look at picture of RCA in/outs here:
https://www.themasterswitch.com/sites/default/files/styles/inline_770__responsive_full_width_/public/image_fields/field_imgs_inline/Rear-Inputs-2---Rotel-RA-1572.jpg?itok=gbNPz0_Y

That I know and have tried. It would suggest that turning the Rotel off may also kill the pre-out signal. Still have to try that ...

[Made in 1968]

I see your amp does not have a Tape Loop! Do they assume no one uses an analogue tape machine anymore? All i can say is maybe an headphone amp/DAC with USB Woo 'WA-7'!

Looking at the instruction book, can you not de-active the signal to the speakers with those press buttons on the front. I use a splitter from a tape output, splits to my headphone amp via processor, the other feed to a cassette deck input via another processor. If i was using a mixing board i would have Send & Returns hence would not need to do the splitter thang..

Back your situation i find using the pre amp not a good idea..

[Exophile]

I would like to be able to turn the Rotel off when listening to headphones, so that I don't have to fumble awkwardly behind the sub to turn it off and on again each time. The main speakers are easy to turn off via front buttons on the Rotel, but the sub stays on when de-activating the speakers with front buttons. And I am not going to get rid of the WA6 SE, sorry.

"Back your situation i find using the pre amp not a good idea.." I assume you meant pre-out on Rotel (not pre amp = Vincent PHO 701), right? So then we are at AB switch box. The Y-splitters have concerns with the different impedances of various components connected.

I am sure Rotel knows that people still use tape: scotch tape, duct tape, masking tape, ... ;-)

[Made in 1968]

I dont know that amp but the Sugden 'A25' i used to listen to headphones with it powered off.

[Exophile]

The aux in - pre out only works with the Rotel 1572 powered on.

I noticed the Tisbury mini passive pre-amp, which is a 3 in - 2 out RCA switch. Seems a bit better with stepped attenuator (just in case, instead of the carbon slider pot of the Shiit SYS), and has a tape loop bypassing the volume control entirely. Found one on eBay in the US, should arrive in a few days. According to Tisbury it can be reversed as well. Will do some experiments ...

[scotty38]

If you’re using the pre-out from the amp to headphone amp then surely that will present every input to the headphones?

Unless I’m missing something it’s not much of a pre-out :lol:

As it happens I have a passive in front of my integrated for this very purpose. It has two direct outs as well as volume controlled outputs so one of the directs goes to my headphone amp.

[Exophile]

Correct, the pre-out will get any input into the integrated amp over to headphone amp. As I now have a separate phono amp, I would like to be able to listen to phono with headphones without going through integrated amp, so that I do not have to turn the sub on/off every time.

Something just clicked! I guess that is an advantage of having separate pre-amp and power amp. Then I can have power amp off, but pre-amp on with all input sources going every which way and no need to fiddle with sub. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait a bit with looking into a dedicated pre-amp. Just shelled out a bundle for the TT set-up.

[scotty38]

Yeah I had a look at the manual, that pre out isn’t going to do what you want is it....

[Made in 1968]

Daniel do you think it might be better if you considered dumping the Rotel amp? Having no tape loop is a pain

[Exophile]

Hi Andre, now that I finally get why having separate pre and power amp can be of value, I consider changing the amp configuration. I guess I could use the existing Rotel as a poweramp for a new, dedicated pre-amp. Or trade in the Rotel for a pre/power combo. Hmm, lots of questions. Will take a while to sort that out, and I just shelled out a bunch for the TT rig. For the time being, I think the RCA passive pre-amp/switch will be the least painful. Not sure which route I would want to go re SS vs tubes, and digital in/out/DAC/ADC considerations. I might lean towards something tuby, needs to have some digital capabilities, and I certainly will want to listen to them, won't buy them from specs.

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Andre, now that I finally get why having separate pre and power amp can be of value, I consider changing the amp configuration. I guess I could use the existing Rotel as a poweramp for a new, dedicated pre-amp. Or trade in the Rotel for a pre/power combo. Hmm, lots of questions. Will take a while to sort that out, and I just shelled out a bunch for the TT rig. For the time being, I think the RCA passive pre-amp/switch will be the least painful. Not sure which route I would want to go re SS vs tubes, and digital in/out/DAC/ADC considerations. I might lean towards something tuby, needs to have some digital capabilities, and I certainly will want to listen to them, won't buy them from specs.

Daniel, having owned a Tisbury which I just used as a pure passive into a pair of mono blocks it should work for your with the Turntable.

If I recall correctly there are 3 inputs and 2 outs, one output is the switchable one and the second is the bypass/loop.

So if you connect the turntable to one of the switchable inputs and the switchable output to the appropriate input on the amplifier this will be for normal speaker listening. If you configure the Tisbury so the other output is permanently on then from there you go to your head phone amp.

It should work. You can obviously connect two other devices to the other 2 inputs on the Tisbury, you just need to ensure their output voltage is not too high for the inputs on either amplifier(main amp or headphone amp).

I hope that makes some sense.

[Exophile]

Adrian, thanks for the explanations. I think I will rather reverse it, so use the Tisbury tape out as my in from the phono stage, then plug the headphone amp into Tisbury input 1, the Rotel into Tisbury input 2. That way I can actively switch the output (with the Tisbury input selector) to where I want the signal to go. According to Tisbury, that should work. Soon enough I'll know. Recabling is really no big deal. Most likely I will try all sorts of combos to see what works best.