Vintage Sheep.. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[Made in 1968]

Why is it that people follow other people like Sheep, popularising certain old gear making it the in thing to have when there are other pieces just as good or better at lower prices. Price hikes on these popular pieces are mind blowing in some cases. I was always in the thinking that old stuff that fetches high prices because they sold small quanities in the day either due to the then high prices compared to competition or they were generally deemed rubbish!! The latter would not suprise me beacuse like music that people did not like decades ago, have a totally different view of these days however this is not the case with Hi-Fi.. the over priced stuff is not reare & quity plentiful.

It does not matter if it is made in England, Europe or Japan. unless you on an engineered Nostalgia trip, but the majority of Audio guys are not.

Id love to know whats making these people tick!

[RobbieGong]

I think I get what your trying to say....

You'll always have your chances ie: sellers who know that certain items have gained a reputation / are sought after.

Whether the sought after tag is justified is always open to debate, that's why I / one should always do their homework, ie: research the item(s) extensively as the truth and what you really need to know will become apparent, for truth, therefore the good the bad and even the ugly (if that applies to a particular piece) in regard to issues to be very aware of like, prone weaknesses, unobtainum parts etc. Recurring points from users, from different sources, about a piece are likely / usually accurate you'd be safe to say, as well as 'characteristic' or sonic signature.

It's only by adopting this common sense approach / attitude will you truly know if something is all it's allegedly meant to be or if it is indeed for you.

To just go in blindly because of 'name/status' is yes, maybe 'sheep-like' but most certainly a mugs game and potentially throwing good money at bad :rolleyes:

As for vintage and why what you call 'sheep' follow. There are a number of reasons for that which I'll try and touch on.

There was some superb kit produced in the hey day of hifi. I'm old enough to remember when there were shops dedicated to hifi on every high street, in every town centre and the same for record stores - big ones too.

Some refer to this period for hifi -70, 80's, v early 90's as the 'heyday'.

With the number of hifi manufacturers competing against each other (particularly the Japanese hifi producers), for a big chunk of sales/the market, some lovely, in fact some great pieces were produced, made with genuine hifi intent (think bigger, better compete mindset), great componentry, tech and electronics etc often not cheap at the time either.

It's usually those higher-end pieces your 'sheep' are chasing, and more than often, IF they've done their homework, justifiably so, IMO of course.

Some vintage high-end pieces were rare and expensive from the off so mad prices if found in good order today - thats life I guess.

Other pieces whilst not cheap at the time, wernt / arnt particularly rare but can be had now for sensible money and again in my view are definitely worth pursuing simply because anything modern of same or similar level of build/spec quality is often either not really available today or will cost BIG bucks, often many times more than said vintage piece.

Once you've made your mind up, done the homework and If you can then get the item of your interest for a 'reasonable' sum and have access to a decent tech to service and look it over, it's a no brainer in my experience ;)

[Made in 1968]

But Homework generally equates to what other people have posted on forums, froms what i have read a massive percentage of it is bollox. But that is Sheep behaviour..

Now if people are buying something like a Garrard '401' to use as originally used in say a SME '2000' plinth with SME '3009' no mods no nothing in which i recommend they should be used it will sound no better than the Garrard 'Zero 100' at a fraction of the price, infact the 'Zero 100' was more expensive in the day than a '401'. But Hi-Fi dudes want to Build mega plinths fit over priced modern arms & cartridges etc to make it into something else, this attraction is looked upon as an attractive high end product which will warrant a price tag for used units to match..

Another one is all this Goldring/Lenco axing up & modifying, make me cringe. Utter lunacy imho.. Totally against the cutting up of these decks as i am the asking price for say a 'G88/99'

[RobbieGong]

Dont agree bro.

In my experience if you look extensively, properly, certain recurring factors / points absolutely start to become apparent. Untold people / owners who have or have the item you're looking into cant be coincidentally saying the same thing, or bringing up a particular aspect, point, trait, issue or otherwise, by sheer chance in regard to that item - nah.

You find out a lot by looking and doing your own home-work otherwise, yes you're likely a 'sheep', chasing and buying only because you've heard people say something is great and the one to have which is a mugs game.

Don't know what else I can say.

There is an attraction for vintage gear-clearly, often in regard to certain pieces, there's good reason for that.

If you feel 'everyone' who pursues vintage gear is a sheep then I cant say anymore than I've already said, other than that's just not the case.

[Pigmy Pony]

I would have thought vintage kit buyers would broadly fall into one of two categories:

1. Folk who recognise there were some incredibly well thought out and engineered high-end products made back then, just need some research to sort the wheat from the chaff. I expect Robert falls into this category.

2. Nostalgia. Buying aspirational gear, which while not necessarily high-end was unobtainable at the time, or perhaps was owned and the buyer just wants the same gear again for old time's sake. That would be more like me, and I have considered putting together a second system that re-creates the set up that my friend's older brother had, which got me into it. Not really high end - turntable made by a company called ERA (French I think), a small 20 watt Trio integrated, and a pair of Dynaco speakers (Danish I think).

If the people out there looking to profit from this nostalgia ask silly money for these items I'm perfectly prepared to not bother and spend my hard-earned elsewhere, so probably not a sheep :)

[Made in 1968]

If you feel 'everyone' who pursues vintage gear is a sheep then I cant say anymore than I've already said, other than that's just not the case.

Im not saying that. Im saying the sheepish behaviour is taking everyone down the same road with the same gear. A handful of items are used like clockwork again sheep behaviour. My point is they are ignoring other stuff that goes for peanuts or they more like want to ignore it cos they cannot axe it up with their fantasy mods that do fuck all to the sound in terms of improvement. But most likley they dont know about it. I feel that if Audio forums never existed etc prices of these things would be give away & none of this nonsence would be happening. Collectors would just collect what they want to for what an item was back then.. Yes ofc i have a chip on my shoulder with these prices & what happens to the stuff & ofc dealers, it stinks to high heavens, destroyed my ability to collect it as an innocent hobby, same goes with Records etc.. Put pay to the lot..

I now have to move away from the hobby i once loved, use a bunch of cheap Hi-Fi that im not saying does not sound good enough cos it does but i would prefer something i liked better but as pointed out i cant.

So there you go. People inability to think for themselves, Price of used gear, Abuse of vintage gear all wrapped up in one thread..

:eyebrows:

[Made in 1968]

I would have thought vintage kit buyers would broadly fall into one of two categories:

1. Folk who recognise there were some incredibly well thought out and engineered high-end products made back then, just need some research to sort the wheat from the chaff.

No more like turntable and such as so shit quality they see vintage as Battleship engineered but they also feel the sound is not to modern standards hence feel compelled to do anything possible to make it go away.. That is utter lunacy imho..

[IHP]

People buy whatever they want for the reasons they have and market forces are what they are. Basically, humans are programmed to consume and we do like to own stuff.

[Made in 1968]

Obviously but im trying to make clear why, im sure im right with a few sugestions & its also reassuring to hear posts that show that its not just me.

[RobbieGong]

Im not saying that. Im saying the sheepish behaviour is taking everyone down the same road with the same gear. A handful of items are used like clockwork again sheep behaviour. My point is they are ignoring other stuff that goes for peanuts or they more like want to ignore it cos they cannot axe it up with their fantasy mods that do fuck all to the sound in terms of improvement. But most likley they dont know about it. I feel that if Audio forums never existed etc prices of these things would be give away & none of this nonsence would be happening. Collectors would just collect what they want to for what an item was back then.. Yes ofc i have a chip on my shoulder with these prices & what happens to the stuff & ofc dealers, it stinks to high heavens, destroyed my ability to collect it as an innocent hobby, same goes with Records etc.. Put pay to the lot..

I now have to move away from the hobby i once loved, use a bunch of cheap Hi-Fi that im not saying does not sound good enough cos it does but i would prefer something i liked better but as pointed out i cant.

So there you go. People inability to think for themselves, Price of used gear, Abuse of vintage gear all wrapped up in one thread..

:eyebrows:

Strong views and fair enough if that's how you feel, sounds like whatever it is really gets ya goat, I just dont think it's that bad, or that much of an 'issue' ;)

[RobbieGong]

No more like turntable and such as so shit quality they see vintage as Battleship engineered but they also feel the sound is not to modern standards hence feel compelled to do anything possible to make it go away.. That is utter lunacy imho..

?

[Ninanina]

The only things I've owned (hifi wise) that fall into this category are LS3/5a's and maybe the Marantz CD-63 KI Sig (ok the Ki isn't quite vintage)

However I wouldn't call myself a 'sheep'

[RMutt]

Probably a reasonably small group of ‘active’ posters across the various hifi forums is another factor. Particularly when it comes to vintage stuff. The same small bunch pop up on lots of forums and possibly have a disproportionate influence.

[struth]

I'm probably the only person in world who has my kit..

[Made in 1968]

I'm probably the only person in world who has my kit..

Same here, Im my own man & always have been.. :eyebrows:

[RobbieGong]

Same here, Im my own man & always have been.. :eyebrows:

:lol: - look at you. Good to know that all of us who have something others have are sheep and not our own man - ha ha! hilarious :)

[Marco]

I'm probably the only person in world who has my kit..

Your clothes or your hi-fi gear?:eyebrows:

Marco.

[Made in 1968]

I aim to please by being special :D

[Marco]

However I wouldn't call myself a 'sheep'

Yesh, especially with your lack of 'fleece'...:eyebrows:

Marco.

[Marco]

I aim to please by being special :D

Special needs?:D

Marco.

[struth]

Your clothes or your hi-fi gear?:eyebrows:

Marco.I've a very good wardrope. F all else mind

[struth]

The only things I've owned (hifi wise) that fall into this category are LS3/5a's and maybe the Marantz CD-63 KI Sig (ok the Ki isn't quite vintage)

However I wouldn't call myself a 'sheep'More of a filly

[Ninanina]

Yesh, especially with your lack of 'fleece'...:eyebrows:

Marco.


:stalks::lol::lol:

[Made in 1968]

Special needs?:D

Marco.

Im passed that. Its called 'NO HOPE'

[RobbieGong]

Special needs?:D

Marco.

:lol:

[Made in 1968]

Im just misunderstood thats all

:D

[RobbieGong]

Im just misunderstood thats all

:D

Yep, probably :)

What kit do you have by the way ? How long you been on the hifi path ? I iz curious :D

* P.S, I expect that you'll not be sheepish about it.... ;)

[RMutt]

I'm probably the only person in world who has my kit..

Should that read ‘kilt’?

[Marco]

:stalks::lol::lol:

Aye, sheered off LONG ago!:D

Marco.

P.S Your new badge has arrived, Bev. 'Baldy is Best'. Could you come to my office and collect it?:lol:

[Ninanina]

Aye, sheered off LONG ago!:D

Marco.

P.S Your new badge has arrived, Bev. 'Baldy is Best'. Could you come to my office and collect it?:lol:

You crack me up Marco.... :eek:

[Marco]

:lolsign:

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

I've a very good wardrope. F all else mind

My wardrobe is great too, shame I can't afford any decent clothes to put in it :(

[Marco]

Yo Stevo, is that your 'live model' nude pose?:D

Marco.

[struth]

My wardrobe is great too, shame I can't afford any decent clothes to put in it :(I've the clothes, no dece t wardrobe tho.. A couple of wall cupboards. Suppose they are not bad but could be better designed. No doors. Someone nicked them

[Marco]

They didn't nick all your frocks, did they?:eek:

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Aye, sheered off LONG ago!:D

Marco.

P.S Your new badge has arrived, Bev. 'Baldy is Best'. Could you come to my office and collect it?:lol:

DANGER! Don't go Bev, but if you must, do not accept a drink! I made that mistake and woke up with my underpants on back to front

[Ninanina]

DANGER! Don't go Bev, but if you must, do not accept a drink! I made that mistake and woke up with my underpants on back to front

:lol::lol::stalks::stalks:

[RobbieGong]

DANGER! Don't go Bev, but if you must, do not accept a drink! I made that mistake and woke up with my underpants on back to front

:eek: :lol:

[Pigmy Pony]

Im not saying that. Im saying the sheepish behaviour is taking everyone down the same road with the same gear. A handful of items are used like clockwork again sheep behaviour. My point is they are ignoring other stuff that goes for peanuts or they more like want to ignore it cos they cannot axe it up with their fantasy mods that do fuck all to the sound in terms of improvement. But most likley they dont know about it. I feel that if Audio forums never existed etc prices of these things would be give away & none of this nonsence would be happening. Collectors would just collect what they want to for what an item was back then.. Yes ofc i have a chip on my shoulder with these prices & what happens to the stuff & ofc dealers, it stinks to high heavens, destroyed my ability to collect it as an innocent hobby, same goes with Records etc.. Put pay to the lot..

I now have to move away from the hobby i once loved, use a bunch of cheap Hi-Fi that im not saying does not sound good enough cos it does but i would prefer something i liked better but as pointed out i cant.

So there you go. People inability to think for themselves, Price of used gear, Abuse of vintage gear all wrapped up in one thread..

:eyebrows:

Andre, I'm inferring from this post that these 'sheep' are buying the same gear you wish to buy, thereby pushing up the prices. Maybe they are just 'savvy' like yourself! Not unusual for quality products to become popular :) It's the same with everything these days, thanks to t'internet, everyone can learn the current value of everything with just a few taps on a keyboard. I suppose the answer is to find the next 'unsung hero' before anyone else does.

[Pigmy Pony]

Yo Stevo, is that your 'live model' nude pose?:D

Marco.

What can I say? Cheap camera innit! I'm getting Walpurgis to do my next photoshoot :(

[Pigmy Pony]

I've the clothes, no dece t wardrobe tho.. A couple of wall cupboards. Suppose they are not bad but could be better designed. No doors. Someone nicked them

Well you do get cold winters up there, and they were made of wood

[Made in 1968]

Andre, I'm inferring from this post that these 'sheep' are buying the same gear you wish to buy, thereby pushing up the prices. Maybe they are just 'savvy' like yourself! Not unusual for quality products to become popular :) It's the same with everything these days, thanks to t'internet, everyone can learn the current value of everything with just a few taps on a keyboard. I suppose the answer is to find the next 'unsung hero' before anyone else does.

No on the contrary ive had all this offending gear, i wouldnt buy it again. but it was all before forums came about hence was as cheap as chips.. Some stuff i would like but its more to do with just not being for sale anywhere..

[Made in 1968]

Yep, probably :)

What kit do you have by the way ? How long you been on the hifi path ? I iz curious :D

* P.S, I expect that you'll not be sheepish about it.... ;)

First proper gear was begining of the 80's.. Cant say what gear id have too many sheep on my tail :lol:

[RobbieGong]

First proper gear was begining of the 80's.. Cant say what gear id have too many sheep on my tail :lol:

Paranoid beginning to feel more like.

So you're here to engage through rant and nothing else then :scratch: great! ;) :doh: :rolleyes:

[Marco]

Yeah, Andre, maybe a bit less of these sorts of threads, referring to folk as "sheep", and which does come across as a bit of a rant, however 'cunningly disguised';). Ta:)

Marco.

[Macca]

There's still plenty of good vintage out there that hasn't been hyped up like the LS3/5a and the Garrard 401.

And there's still some very good equipment that can be bought cheaply because the general on-line consensus is that it is no good. So the 'sheep' thing cuts two ways in that it can actually benefit the vintage collector. The hyped stuff eclipses the rest and probably brings the price of the non-hyped kit down as a consequence because everyone is chasing the same ten (or whatever) items.

Okay if you wanted a cheap 401 then you're shit out of luck but there's plenty of alternatives.

[walpurgis]

It's not just the 'hype'. There's the fashion element, driven by oriental collectors. Take the poxy little Goodmans Maxim speakers from circa 1970, which are selling for around £500 now and ending up in China, Korea or Japan. You couldn't even give the things away a few years ago.

[Macca]

Yes they were always unwanted tat. The Orientals are welcome to them. Probably being hyped on some Japanese forums but we wouldn't know about it.

[walpurgis]

Yes they were always unwanted tat. The Orientals are welcome to them. Probably being hyped on some Japanese forums but we wouldn't know about it.

Unfortunately, those not in the know here, end up thinking there must be something special about these and waste their money on them. No doubt they can be sold on without too much penalty, but that's not the point.

I had a few sets from boot sales years ago for a couple of quid a pair and wasn't impressed even at pocket money prices.

[struth]

some forums do hype, what to me isnt that great stuff, and on occasion shit stuff too, but aos rarely does. As Macca says there is lots of great gear that dont get picked up as they are not "flavour of the month" type stuff. This can be a bit like fashion. I mean who would have believed the lassies going about in black tights only would be seen as cool(99% just look rediculous) or that flares and bell bottoms would ever reappear.... cos a few folk pushed them and everyone followed wanting to be "cool"

All the better for folk who dont care about cool:eyebrows:

[anthonyTD]

I think confidence, or the lack of has a lot to do with it too, people are always looking for a leader, and most are happier to follow, than to stick their neck out and pin their colours to the mast!
There is a lot of good equipment out there besides the usual candidates, but its only when someone seen to have "credentials" get's hold of it, and shouts its praises from the rafters that it gets a following, whether deserved or not! :scratch:

[Macca]

I think confidence, or the lack of has a lot to do with it too, people are always looking for a leader, and most are happier to follow, than to stick their neck out and pin their colours to the mast!
There is a lot of good equipment out there besides the usual candidates, but its only when someone seen to have "credentials" get's hold of it, and shouts its praises from the rafters that it gets a following, whether deserved or not! :scratch:

Good point.

[Marco]

I think confidence, or the lack of has a lot to do with it too, people are always looking for a leader, and most are happier to follow, than to stick their neck out and pin their colours to the mast!


I agree, but you can't blame me for that one, as I'm only responsible for the 'rebirth' of the Technics T/T, and the associated "sheep" who have followed me down that road!:D

Marco [always a leader, not a follower];)

[anthonyTD]

:lol:
I agree, but you can't blame me for that one, as I'm only responsible for the 'rebirth' of the Technics T/T, and the associated "sheep" who have followed me down that road!:D

Marco [always a leader, not a follower];)

[prestonchipfryer]

I agree, but you can't blame me for that one, as I'm only responsible for the 'rebirth' of the Technics T/T, and the associated "sheep" who have followed me down that road!:D

Marco [always a leader, not a follower];)

It's now ten years since I bought my SL1200 and stuck an SME M2-9 on it. The SME I'd owned and taken it off a 401 to put on the Technics. I'd first got the idea from an article by David Price in Hi-Fi World magazine in 2008. Then joined AoS and was inspired to follow on with the MN bearing, etc. Ten years and still going strong. Cheers.

[RobbieGong]

I agree, but you can't blame me for that one, as I'm only responsible for the 'rebirth' of the Technics T/T, and the associated "sheep" who have followed me down that road!:D

Marco [always a leader, not a follower];)

lol, ...that was the guy you got the idea from, or was it the guy he got it from ..... :D

[Macca]

lol, ...that was the guy you got the idea from, or was it the guy he got it from ..... :D

Given the deck came out in 1979 I reckon the first mods were done in...1980?

The original sl1200 modder is probably pushing up the daisies now.

[struth]

My deck comes from same year 1979/80... its still as it was and still works fine.. Good old deck; may not be bees knees but its good

[RobbieGong]

Given the deck came out in 1979 I reckon the first mods were done in...1980?

The original sl1200 modder is probably pushing up the daisies now.

Yep :)

[Pigmy Pony]

I agree, but you can't blame me for that one, as I'm only responsible for the 'rebirth' of the Technics T/T, and the associated "sheep" who have followed me down that road!:D

Marco [always a leader, not a follower];)

Rubbish - I've heard you follow sheep all the time, though 'stalking' is probably a better word :eyebrows:

[Marco]

It's now ten years since I bought my SL1200 and stuck an SME M2-9 on it. The SME I'd owned and taken it off a 401 to put on the Technics. I'd first got the idea from an article by David Price in Hi-Fi World magazine in 2008. Then joined AoS and was inspired to follow on with the MN bearing, etc. Ten years and still going strong. Cheers.

And what you don't know is that he subsequently got the idea from me to take things much further with the Technics [having read what I wrote here about the subject during the early days of AoS, after I'd ordered a brand new SL-1210MK5G, from the States, fully KAB-modified], so much so that he joined the forum to discuss it. If you check the members list, you'll find his name registered, and you can read what was said :)

Not long after that, we decided to set up the Techiepedia section of the forum as an information resource for modifying the Technics SL-1200/1210 (the only one like it on ANY forum), and which despite no input from me there in years, has maintained a life of its own...

However, no worries. I should really get stuck into some of the discussions again in the Techiepedia, as there are a few newbies I could probably help:cool:

Marco.

[Marco]

Rubbish - I've heard you follow sheep all the time, though 'stalking' is probably a better word :eyebrows:

I don't need to stalk them. I just say 'come to daddy' (in sheep language), and the rest just happens naturally!:flasher::flasher::D

Marco.

[Marco]

lol, ...that was the guy you got the idea from, or was it the guy he got it from ..... :D

It was Ken Kessler, WAY back when (forget the year), reviewing the gold-plated limited edition SL-1200 in HFN, quite some time before DP got in on the act, which initially peaked my interest in the Techy. That set a lightbulb off... Then I read what DP wrote about it in HFW, where KAB was mentioned, and so I decided to bite the bullet and buy a fully modified one from the States, and review it here.

DP then read that, joined AoS, and based on my eulogising of the results I'd obtained, took the whole subject of modifying the Technics much more seriously, and that's when other companies started cashing in and coming up with different mods - and the rest is history! So yes I was influential in the (heavy) modifying of the Technics, and as such it being taken more seriously as a genuine high-end turntable:)

Marco.

[Made in 1968]

Yeah, Andre, maybe a bit less of these sorts of threads, referring to folk as "sheep", and which does come across as a bit of a rant, however 'cunningly disguised';). Ta:)

Marco.

Yeh you are right :lol: However reading some replies by skim readers i think they took it the wrong way..

Ill be quiet now..

[Marco]

No worries, I appreciate that. I will comment on some of the points you made though later:)

Marco.

[Made in 1968]

I think you hit a raw nerve with your avatar bud

:eyebrows:

[prestonchipfryer]

And what you don't know is that he subsequently got the idea from me to take things much further with the Technics [having read what I wrote here about the subject during the early days of AoS, after I'd ordered a brand new SL-1210MK5G, from the States, fully KAB-modified], so much so that he joined the forum to discuss it. If you check the members list, you'll find his name registered, and you can read what was said :)

Not long after that, we decided to set up the Techiepedia section of the forum as an information resource (the only one like it on ANY forum), and which despite no input from me there in years, has maintained a life of its own...

However, no worries. I should really get stuck into some of the discussions again in the Techiepedia, as there are a few newbies I could probably help:cool:

Marco.

Thanks Marco for that. Yes the Techipedia is a mine of useful information for those wishing to get the best from the SL1200s.

[Marco]

I think you hit a raw nerve with your avatar bud

:eyebrows:

Good! Hopefully my new signature will hit an ever rawer one!!!;)

Marco.

[Marco]

Thanks Marco for that. Yes the Techipedia is a mine of useful information for those wishing to get the best from the SL1200s.

No worries, John. It's always good to help in someone's audio journey in some small way:)

Marco.

[Pigmy Pony]

Yeh you are right :lol: However reading some replies by skim readers i think they took it the wrong way..

Ill be quiet now..

I'm probably guilty of 'skim reading' on occasion particularly if I only have a passing interest in the subject. But with this thread I tried, I really did. I think if you are trying to write about something you feel passionate/angry about, the typing can get away from you, and if the result goes un-proof read can then be open to misinterpretation. Or maybe that's just me...:D

Some of this thread went over my head, but that's probably because I'm thick - others on here probably take umbrage instead, reading into it something you never intended. Maybe a bit of context would be helpful - some of your collecting history for instance :)

[Made in 1968]

Im Fick & Illiterate that why i cant get across correctly what i feel, cums out wrong sometimes..

:lol:

[walpurgis]

I'm probably guilty of 'skim reading'

So am I.

Sorry, I didn't quite take in the rest of your post..........:D

[Pigmy Pony]

Im Fick & Illiterate that why i cant get across correctly what i feel, cums out wrong sometimes..

:lol:

There isn't a wrong way to get cum out...:eyebrows:

[Pigmy Pony]

So am I.

Sorry, I didn't quite take in the rest of your post..........:D

That's what she said last night, Boom! Boom! (Taxi for Ste!)

What's happening to me? Dammit NinaNina, you've broke me, I used to be normal

[Marco]

Yesh, she's a naughty girl and a bad influence on you:eyebrows:

Marco.

[Made in 1968]

I will comment on some of the points you made though later:)

Marco.

Not sure im looking forward to that

:eyebrows:

[Pigmy Pony]

Not sure im looking forward to that

:eyebrows:

You may have to book some time off work - it will be lengthy, they always are :D

[Marco]

I guarantee it'll be a long as your middle leg;)

Marco.

[Barry]

Don't hold your breath. We're still waiting for his review of an LDR preamp!

[Macca]

And the 2010 Wigwam Show.

[Pigmy Pony]

Yeah but if he has to post hifi stuff you won't get as many pictures of his tea. He's not Superman you know :(

[Made in 1968]

Not what ive heard

:eyebrows:

[Pharos]

There isn't a wrong way to get cum out...:eyebrows:

Oh yes there is - at least according to the two part documentary on the Church of England.