Pioneer PD-91 Vintage CDP

[RobbieGong]

Some years ago, has to be at least 4 or so, I purchased one of these lovely pieces after extensive 'research' on line etc, after which I decided the PD-91 was the one for me, for a number of reason.

However, due to vinyl addiction, one thing and the other, I've just never ever really give the thing a good run out and evaluated it's presentation - something I've felt a bit guilty about and wanted to do in order to inform my self and actually know what the PD91 does and is about.

Fast forward to now and again, with one thing or the other and awaiting a Yannis tonearm cable for my recently acquired SP-10, I decided to fire up the PD-91 and go through some of my fave cd's.

All I can say is blimey ! What a pleasant surprise. In a nutshell the PD-91 is a stellar performer.

One of the reasons I came to th decision of nabbing one, was reading amongst its attributes, its presentation being described as 'analogue like' and coupled with the other attributes, stonking build and fabulous (IMO) looks, that was the icing on the cake, the done deal then, so to speak - I just had to have one.

And indeed, I have to agree, it doesn't appear to have that typical digital, cd, slightly glassy presentation / nature of cd and which you associate as inherent / coming with the territory of cd's and cdp's.

The detail retrieval is fabulous, very neutral, texture and timbre of all instruments and vocals is first rate / spot on. I find it very accurate in terms of how it presents each recording.

One evening before bed has turned into about 7 or 8 on the trot now. After another sensational sesh tonight, I just couldn't help but share and express - The PD-91 is absolutely a most excellent cdp / music player :)

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Looking at the PD-91's schematic its easy to see why it sounds so good. It uses separate Left Right, Burr Brown PCM65 DAC's and three stages following each with fet buffers - quite an exotic player
- no wonder it sounds so good.

[p147]

I also have one and would never sell it, I doubt if you could find a modern equivalent one without having to spend a fortune.
Enjoy it while you can:).

[Made in 1968]

I kinda see CD as not fit for the term 'Vintage' tbh..

[RobbieGong]

I kinda see CD as not fit for the term 'Vintage' tbh..

I've used the term 'vintage' in respect of the player

Either way, The PD-91 was launched in 1987 and was produced from '87-90 , that's 32 years.

Whenever I see the word vintage used in relation to hifi, it's pretty clear to me the word is referring to something that isnt particularly modern ie: new/nower day.


Dictionary meaning:

vintage
/ˈvɪntɪdʒ/


adjective
1.
relating to or denoting wine of high quality.

2.
denoting something from the past of high quality, especially something representing the best of its kind.

Seems pretty accurate in regards the PD-91 to me :D

*CD was launched in 1982, nearly 40yrs ago. Quality ? Some great cd recordings, some great /quality cdp's to play them on, even better in a good set up = Quality, high or otherwise IMHO :)

[Lawrence001]

Looking at the PD-91's schematic its easy to see why it sounds so good. It uses separate Left Right, Burr Brown PCM65 DAC's and three stages following each with fet buffers - quite an exotic player
- no wonder it sounds so good.Not disputing what you're saying but why is it some people reckon the best DACs take the signal straight off the chip legs (usually NOS DACs I've noticed)? I guess it's similar to the passive/active pre debate.

[Spectral Morn]

Good player back in the day, I preferred the Marantz CD94 mk2

[RobbieGong]

Good player back in the day, I preferred the Marantz CD94 mk2

Never heard one but a looker and on that, as a starting point I'd have considered looking deeper into one if I wasnt settled and happy with the 91.

Stereophile found the sound... a bit meh lets say.... https://www.stereophile.com/content/marantz-cd-94-cd-player

[graham67]

Hi Robbie, I am afraid now you are going to have to post pics to keep us all happy ��

[Audio Al]

:worthless:


Hi Robbie, I am afraid now you are going to have to post pics to keep us all happy ��

[StanleyB]

Not disputing what you're saying but why is it some people reckon the best DACs take the signal straight off the chip legs (usually NOS DACs I've noticed)? I guess it's similar to the passive/active pre debate.
For CD playback the best sound will come from the CDP DAC chip to its own audio circuit if that circuit is designed for a quality sound. Unfortunately that isn't the case for most CD players. Many use an opamp for convenience and cost.
The great CD players have a discrete output stage fed from a balanced supply line.

[Spectral Morn]

Never heard one but a looker and on that, as a starting point I'd have considered looking deeper into one if I wasnt settled and happy with the 91.

Stereophile found the sound... a bit meh lets say.... https://www.stereophile.com/content/marantz-cd-94-cd-player

Mk2 not the first version, different animal, much better.

[RobbieGong]

Mk2 not the first version, different animal, much better.

Sorry about that Neil.

The MKll looks all round an excellent cdp :thumbsup: would have loved to have tried one

[Lawrence001]

Sorry about that Neil.

The MKll looks all round an excellent cdp [emoji106] would have loved to have tried oneHaving owned them twice in the past I can confirm they are VERY good CD players. I try and avoid the term "analogue" sounding but in this case it feels valid. Or maybe "organic" whatever that means. I probably really mean natural. I've probably come closest to forgetting (or not caring) I'm listening to CD with them.

[Spectral Morn]

Sorry about that Neil.

The MKll looks all round an excellent cdp :thumbsup: would have loved to have tried one

No problem. Mk1 has a badge on the loading drawer mk2 doesn't. The shame is that Marantz didnt take the design as far as it could. Its a dual differential design, so they could have fitted balanced outputs, but didn't. Anyway I still own mine, lovely player.

[RobbieGong]

Having owned them twice in the past I can confirm they are VERY good CD players. I try and avoid the term "analogue" sounding but in this case it feels valid. Or maybe "organic" whatever that means. I probably really mean natural. I've probably come closest to forgetting (or not caring) I'm listening to CD with them.

This is how I've been feeling listening to the PD-91, so the Marantz 94 MKII sounds right up my street as well. It's also a looker and wood sides which again are my thing. :)

[RobbieGong]

:worthless:

Oakey dokes Al :)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49373010496_92af0c6a57_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2idVzTE)298 (https://flic.kr/p/2idVzTE)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49373010671_4f9134804d_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2idVzWF)296 (https://flic.kr/p/2idVzWF)

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https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49372554658_bf1168d9e3_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2idTfoo)299 (https://flic.kr/p/2idTfoo)

[RobbieGong]

Must say I'm really impressed with the presentation from this cdp the more time I spend with it.

Best compliment is you forget you're listening to cd.....

Presents the music with depth, layers, in a natural, balanced, detailed and non fatiguing way, draws you in.....

Was reading about the PD93 and read it has a display off facility for further reduction of noise.

Didn't realise the 91 has it too so that got pressed this evening and will definitely now stay permanently in the off position :D

Have to say the 91 has been one heck of an antidote, I just didn't expect, until the Yannis tonearm cable is ready, when vinyl replay will recommence and when at long last I'll get to hear the SP-10, in my system for the first time and know/hear what it brings to the party ;)

Until then I'm very happy to say, the PD-91 has been pleasing this fussy ole bugger, big time, been a bit of a revelation actually, in terms of what cd replay can be - you never stop learning :rolleyes: :)

[RobbieGong]

Hi Ying, In reply to your post on the SP10 thread, about the PD-91.

The PD-91 is a fabulous and beautiful thing to behold and most importantly, sonically.

I was genuinely very impressed, once I got round to giving mine some hours. It had sat on my rack for a good few years prior, due to my obsession with vinyl replay.

Once I did give it a look in - wow !! I could see what the reputation was about in every way, looks, build, beauty and sound - It ticked all boxes, big time IMO.

BUT, the joy lasted two or so weeks, after-which it went from sounding fab, organic/analogue and additive to sounding wrong.

I carefully cleaned the lens with Isopropyl alcohol cleaner and Deoxit cleaned all output contacts etc - no change.

From what I know, it looks like it is likely the laser that's packed up on mine - not good ! read on.....

So, what I've learned and read, is that these vintage beauties are not perfect in terms of long lasting reliability so you're taking a chance.

There are a few well documented inherent issues with these. One is that the glue used to keep the lens in place was not ideal/good and had a tendency to become brittle, causing the lens to become dislodged, an abundance of this reported, that you can find online,

As equally documented and reported is the lens is also prone to not reading cdrs etc and sometimes just not reading cds in general - as i say lots online from users about that too.

Mine arrived by courier in fab condition BUT no matter how I tried at the time, it would not play a cd.

I let the seller know, himself a big big collector and seller of vintage high-end Japanese gear. Myself and a friend spent a nice day with him as he re-seated and secured the lens back in place.

Once I got it home, I played literally the odd track but never really used it for years.

My learning is that as lovely as these are they are known for having a few inherent issues, which has to be taken into consideration when you are looking to fork out your money, that said when they are on song they are special.

Lasers in CDPs have a shelf life and from what I know it is generally speaking 15, maybe 20 years or so - The PD-91 was produced between 1987-1990, that's 30plus years now....

A spare laser for the PD-91 is now nigh on impossible to find. Spares of the laser part no. PWY1004, that were available have long dried up https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32350092034.html

I will try to source another PD-91 at some point, BUT I will not pay the daft prices people are asking for these, at the moment, living off its rep and taking advantage with silly /daft asking prices.

One 220v model, here in the UK (You'd ideally want the 230/240v version as i have for Europe/UK), started on eBay at £895 and that's without the remote. It's been on there for ages! hardly surprising.

Guess what? and what isd surprising is that the seller has now increased asking priced to £969 Buy It Now :eek: - only pushing prices up, as others who have one, look and think hey! that's whats being asked ?! , i'll pitch mine around that price too... :rolleyes:

If you look on Hi-fi Shark https://www.hifishark.com/model/pioneer-pd-91 you'll see all operational ones are between £800 - £1000, way too much in my book, (It retailed at around £1K when new) for something that can fail at anytime, ie: past its sell by date so to speak, potentially a large pretty door stop, which is what I now have.

Yes they are beautiful, rare, a bit special and yes, I do want another, one day, BUT I will never pay the silly money being asked, particularity with age and reliability question marks for the vintage and as expressed above.

My advice then, is wait and try to pounce on one that looks well kept and priced sensible. I'd also advise against having one shipped, not worth the hassle.

Even if it arrived in tact, the odds of the lens having fallen off during dispatch are great, it's a know issue with these you'll find.

Be patient and search for a nice one, realistically priced, locally :)

[The Black Adder]

I've had two PD-91 machines. Sound wise they are amazing. Not as good as my streaming system but nevertheless they are really nice.

There were some problems I encountered with the PD-91.

Firstly, the laser lens are not glued in very well so moving them or transporting them can be a little tricky.

Then the problem with the disc drawer... It can sometimes have a mind of its own. It can also eject itself after loading. I found that this was due to a cog jumping a couple of teeth so that needed adjusting.

The lasers themselves are very rare to find now and very expensive. There are plenty of fakes out there too!

FAB cdp though.

Would I have another one? Yes... But only if I had an (original) replacement laser to hand.

Sent from my 9001X using Tapatalk

[hornucopia]

Really useful articles. Had fancied these, but.....may stick to my modded PS 1,(though THAT has packed up, needs fixing).
Other choice is probably OPPO?
I guess tech can fail!

[robinb]

I have one of these too - as you say, awesome little players - but mine suffered laser failure too and is currently at the tech trying to source a laser....fingers crossed!

[RobbieGong]

I have one of these too - as you say, awesome little players - but mine suffered laser failure too and is currently at the tech trying to source a laser....fingers crossed!

I feel you're pain Robin. Such a shame with these and a common theme, the lasers tend to go like clock work which hurts big time as the lasers are almost impossible to get hold of now.

My learning is that lasers generally have a life expectancy of about 15/20 years or so - generally. The 91 is pushing 30 years now.

Buying these and most vintage CDPs is a risk then to be honest, but what a beautiful and fab sounding CDP, I was thrilled at the sound, when I got to playing mine.

I defo want a laser or indeed another fully working 91...... :rolleyes: :)

[robinb]

Hey Robbie

If/when the tech sources one I'll lyk!

[p147]

Hey Robbie

If/when the tech sources one I'll lyk!

Robin, I would also be interested in the outcome, as I might want a spare one if mine packs up.

[RobbieGong]

Hey Robbie

If/when the tech sources one I'll lyk!

Thanks and please Robin, that would be great, especially if another/more can be sourced - one can only hope :)

[robinb]

Hi all

As feared these are now unobtanium. Anyone considering buying one of these should know that the lasers fail after 20 years and are now impossible to find.

[AJSki2fly]

I feel you're pain Robin. Such a shame with these and a common theme, the lasers tend to go like clock work which hurts big time as the lasers are almost impossible to get hold of now.

My learning is that lasers generally have a life expectancy of about 15/20 years or so - generally. The 91 is pushing 30 years now.

Buying these and most vintage CDPs is a risk then to be honest, but what a beautiful and fab sounding CDP, I was thrilled at the sound, when I got to playing mine.

I defo want a laser or indeed another fully working 91...... :rolleyes: :)

https://www.eeshops.net/laser-lens-diode-c-704/original-laser-lens-for-pioneer-elite-pd75-pd75-pd91-pd91-pd93-pd93-stereo-compact-disc-cd-player-optical-pickup-assy-replacement-spare-parts-p-73672.html

or NOS not cheap though

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/original-Pioneer-PWY-1004-laser-head-lens-pick-up-new-NOS/254707730639?hash=item3b4dc388cf:g:9xgAAOSwZ2FfT-4D

[robinb]

...which anyone considering buying one should take into account...

[Gazjam]

Personally speaking, given the (non)availability of parts if something goes wrong with vintage CD players, I wouldn't want the potential worry.

Getting back into CDs for some weird reason, and took a punt on one of these.
New Audiolab CD Transport.

https://i.imgur.com/RJbFc7I.jpg

After reading a lot of very positive reviews took a punt.
Sounds way better than it has a right to at the price
Had it a few days, already sounding better than my modded 203 over i2s on Redbook CD.
Hooked up with a Wireworld Starlight 8 digital coax.

If it keeps improving the way it is I might invest in a more 'serious' digital cable.
Genuinely a bit taken aback by how this thing sounds, and not just for the price.
Say again, it beats my Oppo for enjoying CDs. :eek:

Wouldn't look at an old CD Player as a transport when this is around.

[Gazjam]

Personally speaking, given the (non)availability of parts if something goes wrong with vintage CD players, I wouldn't want the potential worry.

Getting back into CDs for some weird reason, and took a punt on one of these.
New Audiolab CD Transport.

https://i.imgur.com/RJbFc7I.jpg

After reading a lot of very positive reviews took a punt.
Sounds way better than it has a right to at the price
Had it a few days, already sounding better than my modded 203 over i2s on Redbook CD.
Hooked up with a Wireworld Starlight 8 digital coax.

If it keeps improving the way it is I might invest in a more 'serious' digital cable.
Genuinely a bit taken aback by how this thing sounds, and not just for the price.
Say again, it beats my Oppo for enjoying CDs. :eek:

Wouldn't look at an old CD Player as a transport when there's quality modern stuff around.

[Macca]

I think its worth noting that -

Lasers don't tend to fail, but they will gradually lose power with use, eventually passing a point where they start struggling to read. That's use not time so a 20 year-old CD player that has been unused or rarely used since new will still have a 'fresh' laser.

Lasers can also go out of alignment. If the player is dropping out for a split second then resuming playback it's more likely misaligned than dying, You need service manual and oscilloscope to fix it though.

The fault can be something other than the laser. For example failure to recognise it has a disc loaded can be a failed component or connector, not necessarily a laser issue.

A dying laser will not give worse sound quality. Either it will read or it will fail to an extent that the error correction cannot fix it and then you get an audible glitch. It's not like a stylus wearing out where it starts sounding a bit rough.

I think that by the law of averages there will still be PD91s out there that have only a couple of hundred hours use and their lasers should be good for a few thousand more hours at the very least. Not everyone who owns high end kit uses it a lot. The problem is being sure of that. I've always fancied one since they came out but I wouldn't pay more than £300 for any vintage CD player. Just not worth it.

[RobbieGong]

I think its worth noting that -

Lasers don't tend to fail, but they will gradually lose power with use, eventually passing a point where they start struggling to read. That's use not time so a 20 year-old CD player that has been unused or rarely used since new will still have a 'fresh' laser.

Lasers can also go out of alignment. If the player is dropping out for a split second then resuming playback it's more likely misaligned than dying, You need service manual and oscilloscope to fix it though.

The fault can be something other than the laser. For example failure to recognise it has a disc loaded can be a failed component or connector, not necessarily a laser issue.

A dying laser will not give worse sound quality. Either it will read or it will fail to an extent that the error correction cannot fix it and then you get an audible glitch. It's not like a stylus wearing out where it starts sounding a bit rough.

I think that by the law of averages there will still be PD91s out there that have only a couple of hundred hours use and their lasers should be good for a few thousand more hours at the very least. Not everyone who owns high end kit uses it a lot. The problem is being sure of that. I've always fancied one since they came out but I wouldn't pay more than £300 for any vintage CD player. Just not worth it.

That's interesting Martin. Mine just suddenly and without warning went from sounding fab to cr&p so I assumed it was the laser.

It may have been something with the analogue output, I wouldn't be surprised.

[ReggieB]

Genuinely a bit taken aback by how this thing sounds, and not just for the price.
Say again, it beats my Oppo for enjoying CDs. :eek:

Wouldn't look at an old CD Player as a transport when this is around.

Yes - having just bought a 6000CDT I'd wholeheartedly agree