Advice On Audiophile/SQ Speakers From '67 - '74

[HD Goofnut]

I'm putting together a system for my dad and now find myself falling at the last hurdle. Speakers.

A little more info on the set up. His original Trio KA-6000 will be sent off for a thorough service but I am undecided on "upgrading" anything else whilst in there as I don't want to change the sound of the amp. Any advice, opinions or thoughts would be welcome with this quandary.

I am giving him one of my SL1210 MII's which I have decided to mod before doing so. Specs below.

- Audio Technica VM760SLC Dual Moving Magnet Stereo Cartridge
- Micro Seiki H-303X Headshell
- Micro Seiki MA-505 Tonearm
- Magna Audio Ebony Armboard
- Oyaide BR-12 Turntable Mat
- Isonoe Audio Isolation Feet
- External PSU

His music ranges from late fifties to mid '90's. Bill Haley and the Comets to New Order. Lots of Classic Rock & Blues. Instrumental bands like the Shadows and The Spotnicks. There is a bit of Iron Butterfly in there too.

He still owns his original B&W DM4 speakers which are currently living in the loft but it think there are better sounding units out there. The problem is I just don't know what to look at and there are only so many reviews you can read before things stop sinking in.

So far I have looked at everything JBL, Pioneer, Tannoy and Wharfedale had to offer in a floorstanding speaker from '67 to '74 but I don't think I could afford to add them to the this system with what they cost today unless I gave up the idea of modding the TT.

What other brands are there that I should consider? Anything obscure or massively overlooked? Are there any Acoustic Research, Celestion, KEF or Sansui speakers from this era that would be worth while looking at? Anything after '74 I should be considering?

Budget for the speakers is around £1000.

Thanks for reading.

[graham67]

JBLs are great for classic rock and blues, pop etc. A very fine pair of both 4312 and l100 were sold on here last year within your budget. Although standmounts, they produce lots of good quality bass and stylewise will fit into your dads period system perfectly. I moved from big floorstanding tannoys to the JBLs and they lose nothing in scale and the bass is quicker and punchier.
I use an MS ma202 on an sl-150 techy and can recommend the at-150sa (near identical to the vm750). It is cheaper than the 760 and a very fine cart. Some reviews state the shibata tip is less prone to brightness than the fine line stylus. On my sl150 the shibata has plenty of top end, i wouldnt want a cart with more top end extension on a techy.

[HD Goofnut]

Thanks very much for the heads up, I thought the Audio Technica AT 150 Sa was discontinued.

I have been looking at the Sansui SP 4 digit series. I don't suppose anyone knows what these (https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/sp-2500.shtml) are like?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3LsOfLNobE

[graham67]

I thought the Audio Technica AT 150 Sa was discontinued.


Hi Ben,
You are correct, it is no longer sold. However the VM750 has the same Shibata stylus used on the 150Sa. On the MA202 (not dissimilar to the MA505), there is already plenty of top end detail with the 150Sa which is further enhanced on the "Special Line Contact" Fine Line stylus used on the VM760. Personally I would save money with the VM750.

[HD Goofnut]

Hi Ben,
You are correct, it is no longer sold. However the VM750 has the same Shibata stylus used on the 150Sa. On the MA202 (not dissimilar to the MA505), there is already plenty of top end detail with the 150Sa which is further enhanced on the Fine Line stylus used on the VM760. Personally I would save money with the VM750.

So try and find a 150 Sa?

[graham67]

If you find a 150 SA at good price, snap it up, its a seriously good mm cart.

[HD Goofnut]

What would a good price be. I don't know what they cost new.

Is that what the VM750SH replaced?

[graham67]

Exactly, the 750SH replaced the 150Sa but as far as I can tell it appears to be virtually identical. I think they retailed for about 329, so cheaper than the VM-750 that replaced it and the earlier 150MLX which is not as good (IMO). I was also fortunate to pick up a new one up for around 265 (3 years ago), and on ebay a spare stylus (ATN-150) for only £160.

If you do go for an Audio Technica 150/750 series cart, the Audio Technica MS-9 magnesium headshell works well. It is adjustable for azimuth, overhang and mounting the cart is very easy using two self tapping bolts. Aligning is a doddle as the adjustable overhang design means the cart cannot be skewed left or right. It is much easier to set up than the fussy MS headshell with separate fingerlift and slots. The Audio Technica headshell is also more plentiful and cheaper to buy second hand compared to the more expensive Micro-Seiki headshells most of which look rather tatty as the paint seems to damage easily.

Here is a pic of an AT-150Sa on an AT MS-9 headshell on a Micro-Seiki MA-202. As you can see the headshell was designed to suit the 150 range of carts.

https://i.imgur.com/2Pdls6M.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hO3ts4K.jpg

[HD Goofnut]

That looks lovely. I have found out the body of the 150 Sa is built using PCOCC coil generators which may result in lower background/surface noise, whereas that body of the 750 SH is a cheaper version in terms of the toroidal generators.

I have ordered one but it will be fitted to a Micro Seiki H-303X headshell and will look at ordering the Audio Technica MS-9 magnesium headshell to see how they compare.

What should I be expecting to pay for a good pair of original JBL L100's?

What else from that era would be a close second to the L100?

[graham67]

L100 usually sell around 700-1000. There was a fab pair sold on here recently for only 600, (800 incl stands) with new funky grilles.
Also look for the very similar studio equivalents 4310, 4311, 4312. And there ae also the l96, l40 with 10" driver, but all are excellent.
TBH, given their age, condition is more important than seeking out a particular model, instead buy the best pair u can find ��
well done on finding a 150 SA, i am sure you won't regret it.
regarding the MS 9 headshell, you should contact Angus "phonomac" on this forum. He supplied the MS 9 you see above in original packaging and virtually unmarked. He also serviced and upgraded the MA 202 arm . he is very knowledgeable on all things micro seiki and audio technica.

[walpurgis]

I like the L100 'Century' and have heard the original many times. They are a lot of fun, but far from perfect. Bass isn't really deep, there are colourations throughout the frequency range and the top end can be a little ragged, the LE20 and later LE25 cone tweeters have their limitations. On the plus side, there's loads of impact and detail, sensitivity is good and they are easy to drive.

[HD Goofnut]

Thank you for the reply. What would you recommend other than the L100 that would fit the bill?

[Patrick Dixon]

You could consider Ditton 66s (or Ditton 44s if you want less expensive).

[HD Goofnut]

The Celestion speakers do look nice. I am also looking at the Acoustic Research AR3a.

[walpurgis]

The Ditton 66 are nice speakers, but have reached the point where spare parts are becoming harder to find. Just try locating a decent matched pair of the MD500 midrange units (there are aftermarket diaphram kits, but there's no telling how good those might be).

Good matched spares for the AR3a are even more tricky to come by. They are a great speaker though.

Vintage Tannoys may suit your purposes though and most of them can be serviced (at a price).

[HD Goofnut]

Aren't decent vintage Tannoys mucho ££££'s compared against the likes of the L100, Ditton 66 and AR3a speakers?

[walpurgis]

Aren't decent vintage Tannoys mucho ££££'s compared against the likes of the L100, Ditton 66 and AR3a speakers?

Not necessarily, depends which models you are interested in. The L100, 66 and AR3a in good condition could have prices either side of £1000.

Our Julian is selling a beautiful pair of Tannoy Chatsworths for £1500 in the Private Exhibitions section.

Alternatively, on ebay there's a pair of Little Red Monitors with a slightly steep £1200 asking price, but open to offers. What models are available changes all the time. There are some Tannoys best avoided.

It's just a case of knowing which model suits and keeping an eye open.

[HD Goofnut]

What Tannoy models are still affordable to mortal man? Unfortunately those would be too much over budget.