New speakers/system . . . .

[Opti-cal]

I've gone and got some new speakers and made a new system whilst my Quads are being tweaked/repaired.
It's pretty nice to put it mildly.

My room cannot even begin to cope with the soundstaging this setup throws but its in preparation of moving to a much larger space.
Fiver to anyone who can name the speakers . . . . (without cheating and zooming in on them!).

Most manufacturer specs are meaningless but I can tell you now these are very flat to 22Hz. Didn't think it was possible south of 5k to be honest.

27179

[VanDerGraaf]

Look very serious, those!

I wouldn't worry about them being identified- even after enlarging the picture I have no clue! :)

[struth]

no idea tbh. big beasties tho.. looks like 4 drivers. not many companys do split cabinet speakers.

[Opti-cal]

Okay well to relieve the errr "suspense" I can confirm they are "Grand Master Evolution" from a company called Cambridge Acoustic. A Polish company, naturally.

Some might have spotted them on the bay recently and when they had a price drop I couldn't resist. Definitely a gamble though as the only reviews available are from customers local to the designer in Poland and although they are numerous it did make me a bit skeptical.

The response figures are incredible. This is part of the "flagship" range but not the top model which apparently can get down to 18Hz flat.

They are certainly serious speakers and I'm only just beginning to hear what they can do.

This is what they first looked like when I had them setup. They have an extra full range driver on top which does add a little extra sparkle and also makes them even more efficient and brings them from 96 to 101db efficiency. For most music however, with scale and dynamics, they do remove some coherence from the presentation therefore I've decided to leave them off for now. I think they look better without them anyway.

27190

[Opti-cal]

So now they are effectively a 4-way speaker with the bass cabinet housing the crossover. I'm still waiting to find out from the previous owner exactly what spec they are (drivers etc) as they are all custom built speakers. Plus a full lifetime (free return) warranty is included which is nice and shows the confidence in the design.

They did come with some crappy jumper cables illustrated in the first pic so I made some better ones . . . does sound better actually.

27191

27192

[Opti-cal]

Sound-wise they are just massive. Far too big for my current room however I've experienced a bit of what my Neurochrome amp and these can do together and its quite astonishing. The overall and sheer texture to the sound is something else. Bass is dealt with in a manner I've not experienced before either. No boom just masses of obvious headroom as the amp grips the speakers and always seems to have something in reserve.

I'm still learning about them during every listen.

When they're in my new room (hopefully soon) they'll really have some room to breath as I can hear they are being a bit strangled in my modest loft at the moment.

Coming from my Quads I expected to give up more clarity in the midrange but they are not far off at all. Certainly not far enough from them for me to think about swapping them back in anytime soon. Although I still love my Quads dearly. This is something else altogether different though. Dynamic presence to get excited about. Something the Quads can only hint at to be honest.

Many years happy listening await I hope.

[Pharos]

Very interesting, do you have a spec?

[Opti-cal]

Still waiting for exact spec from previous owner but this is lifted from the website (translated from Polish!).

The upper part is a broadband speaker. The middle monitor working in a closed housing - the lower part in a bass reflex enclosure all combined into one column, 24 cm deep 32 cm Terminals VBT-Gold Pro Woofers - KEVLAR Tweeters - SILK DOME Broadband Speaker - CELLULOSE on a ribbon suspension All elements connected with Silver Connection cables visible on the Photo are part of the PARAMETER set Recommended amplifier 40-150 watts Recommended amplifier 10 -60 watts Frequency range 10 Hz - 35 KHz (measurement with generator) Frequency range audible 20 Hz - 18kHz Effectiveness of mode I - 101 db Effectiveness of mode II - 98 db Effectiveness of mode III - 96 db Impedance mode I - 10 ohm Impedance mode II - 8 ohm Impedance mode III - 4 ohm

When I get it I'll post the materials/spec of drivers/tweeters etc.

[Mike Reed]

They look like something very loosely between an Isobarik and a big ATC. They look ported but are they two separate boxes a la SBL or another design? You say 4 way (?????) but even if 3 way X-over design, they're mightily efficient ! About the only way your 63s can compete is possibly in the narrow mid-range purity but I'd imaging slam alone makes you hold your breath. Mind you, ESLs are good for imaging/soundstaging (I have 2905s).

[Opti-cal]

Yes Mike, they are ported at the front and two (or three!) separate boxes. It is unusual to say the least but I have to say somehow the designer has managed to pull off the efficiency figures as I have very easily driven it with an EL34 SET power amp although it sounded better with my 300B SET (although in parallel configuration so more like 18 watts rather than 9).

I also chanced on them as they reminded me of a speaker I "constructed" (or rather placed on top of a sub). It was an efficient driver with good bass extension already, underpinned by a sub which also doubled as a stand for the speaker. The sub could be quite successfully decoupled from the speaker so vibrations were not really an issue. I sold them and they sounded absolutely lovely.

Here is an old pic.

27193

[Opti-cal]

About the only way your 63s can compete is possibly in the narrow mid-range purity but I'd imaging slam alone makes you hold your breath. Mind you, ESLs are good for imaging/soundstaging (I have 2905s).

Indeed, I was firmly in love with the mid-range of ESL's (I moved from 57's as I wanted 'some' low-end) but after more listening, what I though I was giving up in terms of mid-range, is likely just less emphasis on that part of the frequency range from these speakers. It's such a treat for the ear when the depth, presence and atmosphere are suddenly presented with this level of authority.

In fact I believe they are actually more detailed than the Quads (which I thought were excellent in this regard). The only area the Quads still excel over these actually, is the speed of transients and leading notes which does create some spell binding moments still.

[Mike Reed]

Yes, I don't think there are any coil speakers which can compete with ESLs (or planar generally?) for speed. The difference is tiny, but quite perceptible after living with big m/coil speakers for 50 years ! Your 'second storey' sub speaker looks very professional as well as menacing. A few years ago I had ProAc Response Fours (133kg each), then bought 57s as an experiment (nice but not enough scale). Three weeks later I saw my 2905s advertised; haven't looked back.

[Opti-cal]

Yes, I don't think there are any coil speakers which can compete with ESLs (or planar generally?) for speed. The difference is tiny, but quite perceptible after living with big m/coil speakers for 50 years ! Your 'second storey' sub speaker looks very professional as well as menacing. A few years ago I had ProAc Response Fours (133kg each), then bought 57s as an experiment (nice but not enough scale). Three weeks later I saw my 2905s advertised; haven't looked back.

Thanks Mike, do your 2905's do scale as well as your coil speakers do/did?

The guy I bought my current 63's from had 2912's in the same (massive!) room. He said the 63's weren't a million miles off but I think we both knew they probably were, as he only played me the 63's. Understandable really as he wanted to make the sale rather than show me what I could be listening to! I was happy enough with the sound of the 63's so I certainly wasn't upset that I might unwittingly expose myself to something significantly better than what I was about to spend a fair amount of money on. A direct comparison would likely have left me feeling a bit flat about my purchase.

I think if I could get a blend of the two it might be my perfect speaker but I'm probably just being unrealistic in wanting that level of detail, clarity and scale. Whilst still staying on the right side of 5 figures of course. If I was going over 10k I think I would settle for absolutely nothing less.

[Mike Reed]

Yes Chris; the 2905s do indeed do scale on a par with the R4s, albeit in a different way. Likewise imaging and soundstaging, which is probably better on the ESLs. My local bake-off mafia are partly responsible for my changing horses, as (about 7/8 years ago) they acknowledged my upper Naim system but not my ProAcs; they were mostly valve/ESL people, though. Whatever, no looking back.

63s were the mainstay of one of these (with E.A.R. amplification) but he changed to 2812s last year (or 2018?). Yes, the 2812s are an improvement,but the 2805s preceded the 2812s, so you'd expect it !

Guess your next cost effective upgrade in this department is to keep the same footprint but go up; 2905s, which can be had for little over 2 grand nowadays. Mine are the Classique version; brown and gold (more like the 63s?), supposedly finished to order from Jacky Chan and then put onto the market for £500 more.

[Opti-cal]

Hi Mike, I have no doubt a pair of 29**'s will make their way into my listening room at some point. Although I'm not impatient and will thoroughly enjoy the virtues of my current 63's (when they are back from warranty work) as well as my new beasts . . . . famous last words though.

Quads and E.A.R.'s are typically an excellent match by all accounts. I think Quads deserve valves, although can be extremely exciting with a huge sound obtainable with solid state, my personal preference is quite a saturated and rich sound with lush texture. My Quads will always provide that extremely intimate performance and provide the micro-details at much lower volume than other speakers so they will always have a place in my system.

[Opti-cal]

Are you still using Naim amplification in your system at all? What has been your best match with your Quads?

[Mike Reed]

No more Naim of any description, and I used to have 7 boxes of it. T. de P. used the 63s when designing the 509 amplifiers (from the horse's mouth), so I reckon perfect synergy is guaranteed, although that's not to say that other flavours of amplification wouldn't be enjoyable. I wouldn't mind trying some if any came up locally (Conrad Johnson is tempting but I'd much prefer British, for practical reasons).

E.A.R. 912/509s; 4 box (valved) LECTOR CDP; N.A. Dais with 12" chromed PU7 and Ace Anna arms; Transfig. Proteus, K.Urushi Vermillion and a m/magnet cart. Can amp + Focal and Senn's, Chord, T.Q. and silver I/Cs. Quad 2905s

[Opti-cal]

Thanks for that info Mike. Incredible components you have there. No doubt in my mind you have assembled an audibly desirable system.

Cheers.

[Bethelcat]

No more Naim of any description, and I used to have 7 boxes of it. T. de P. used the 63s when designing the 509 amplifiers (from the horse's mouth), so I reckon perfect synergy is guaranteed, although that's not to say that other flavours of amplification wouldn't be enjoyable. I wouldn't mind trying some if any came up locally (Conrad Johnson is tempting but I'd much prefer British, for practical reasons).

E.A.R. 912/509s; 4 box (valved) LECTOR CDP; N.A. Dais with 12" chromed PU7 and Ace Anna arms; Transfig. Proteus, K.Urushi Vermillion and a m/magnet cart. Can amp + Focal and Senn's, Chord, T.Q. and silver I/Cs. Quad 2905s

Hi Mike - have just seen this thread and your Conrad Johnson comment...I have a Conrad Johnson Premier 350SA amp for sale if you are interested. Fantastic amp that is as good as the many online reviews. Let me know if you are interested