Newbie With The Mod Bug SL1210 MKII

[HD Goofnut]

Evening.

I'm looking to mod my SL1210 MKII TT for better SQ.

Mods wise I am open to suggestions and after searching the forum and there appears to be a lot to choose from and some nice mods I have unfortunately missed out on.

So far the mod list looks like the following.

- Jelco TS-550S 9" Tonearm & Headshell
- Audio Technica AT33EV Cartridge
- Oyaide BR-12 Turntable Mat
- Isonoe Audio Isolation Feet

If anything I have listed above has a better counterpart for the same price please let me know. I'm also looking for recommendations of where to source the parts online and someone who can carry out any soldering work that will be required as I can't solder to save my life!

Two things I am undecided on is moving the power supply externally. I know the theory behind doing it but is the difference audible?

I would also be interested to hear from anyone who has gone with modding the platter. If a decent mat is used, something like the Oyaide BR-12 is there any audible difference or is this getting close to diminishing returns?

Thanks very much for reading and all the best for 2020 :)

[mikeyb]

I have those isonoe feet on my 1210 don’t think they make much difference to be honest, money better spent elsewhere.

[HD Goofnut]

I have those isonoe feet on my 1210 don’t think they make much difference to be honest, money better spent elsewhere.

Any pointers? :)

[Hopeful]

I can help with a tonearm, I've got a nice Jelco SA 750 along with an armboard to suit your 1210. Drop me a pm if you are interested.

[RobbieGong]

Hi Ben,

I've gone this route, literally upgraded my 1210 to within an inch of it's life, with all the best parts ie: Isonoe isolation feet, Mike New ETP platter, Mike New bearing, Mike New bearing base plate, Micro Seiki MA202 tonearm, Ortofon pure silver headshell leads, ebony armboard, Paul Hynes SR7-21 EHD external power supply with pure silver pure silver deck to power supply lead with Jaegar low impedance connector.

No expense spared, spent a shed-load.

Would I do it again? no.

Was it worth it ? For the experience and learning - yes. Financially no

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and if I knew then what I know now I'd have gone the route I eventually have - Technics SP-10......


Anyway, My advise is that you dont need to go crazy and spend mad amounts of money to get good results and enjoy the 1210.

Mine thrilled me to bits with simple mods and an Ortofon 2M Black on groove tracing duty :)

Bare in mind that once you change the tonearm you lose the excellent and super convenient Technics on the fly vta, it's a compromise if you are going to use top carts like the 2M Black but wont be deal breaker if you dont intend on using carts with Shibata profiles like the 2MB which are very finicky/fussy about setup and in particular vta.

Keeping things simple, cost/spend conscious but effective, I'd definitely go:

-Isonoe feet, look cool IMO and are certainly better than the stock feet in terms of isolation, clearly made better in terms of absorbing vibration over the stock boots.
-Get one of the reasonably priced off board power supplies https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/352515843442?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=352515843442&targetid=521080696731&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045881&poi=&campaignid=7412990587&mkgroupid=76068634930&rlsatarget=pla-521080696731&abcId=1139356&merchantid=7110924&gclid=CjwKCAiA6bvwBRBbEiwAUER6JchGqQVTg-DD6V7V_YVgQbAtb6VWdgZx1c9_zilA1N4LSLwVP6kRPhoC9PkQ AvD_BwE There are other 12XX exteranl powers supplies out there including Origin Live and Paul Hynes etc, have a search

- Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearm - A very well made and respected vintage tonearm which I think matches the 12XX beautifully. You should be able to pick up a tidy one for under £200, then send it to Angus (Phonomac) for an overhaul, re-wire and new hybrid ceramic bearings. It also has on the fly vta. Not quite as slick as the techies on the fly but on the fly all the same and most certainly a good thing to have than not.

See images here for an idea of the MA-202 on a 1210 with ebony armboard https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?53810-GONGS-Music-Maker-2017&highlight=music+maker

- A good decent cart - lots of choice and doesnt need to cost a fortune
- Ebony armboard from Magna Audio here (Speedy Steve)

I wouldnt waste time messing with mats but up to you.

The above shouldnt get silly on spend and will give you a very nice sounding player, a defo step up on what you have without the credit card repayments/debt or remortgage :D

P.S - Keep your eye on Private Exhibitions, good deals can/do pop up ;)

[lovejoy]

Hi Ben,
I'm relatively new to modding the Technics myself, but completely agree with Robert. It's a lot of fun, there's a lot to learn and you don't need to go mad with spending money in making improvements.

Removing the power supply was one of the first things I did, and this does make a big difference. When you play the lead in/out groove of a record, you can always hear a low level hum which is coming from the transformer and getting this out of the case gets rid of this which has a knock on affect in improving detail. I went down the DIY route and put the existing transforner in a separate box, added a few extra reservoir capacitors and upgraded the internal regulator with an SPower regulator, all from threads on here. This is most definitely worth doing and will show through in all other upgrades you make. If you're not comfortable with the DIY route then there are plenty of aftermarket PSUs you can get which make the job easier.

If your existing arm is in good condition i.e. the bearings don't have any play in them, then I would say to keep it but get it rewired. The single biggest improvement I've made so far is to get a re-wiring kit from kabusa.com - This consists of the wires in the tonearm itself and the cables to your amp which can be ordered pre-terminated. This cost me around £90 and made a huge improvement in all areas of the sound I was getting. The kit also comes with a silicone tube which you insert into the arm which helps to damp resonances in the arm. I thihnk the stock arm is pretty under-rated and giving it a re-wire takes it up a few levels. It's more than happy with more expensive cartridges too. I'm currently using a Dynavector DV20X2L - Only because it was the cart I was using on my old deck, but I'm getting ore out of this cart on my Techie than I ever got out of it on my Well Tempered deck.

Replaing the platter mat is worth doing, especially if yours currently has a felt one. i'm using a Funk Achromat which again was something I had lying around unused and this works well. It's the platter that really needs damping though and there are DIY threads on doing that here too, this is next on my list.

[Spectral Morn]

Isonoe feet do make a difference, don't buy the techie boots, they mess the sound up.

Mats, the Oyaide are nice mats the BR12 might be a good alternative to the stock one. I use the previous metal version and weight which work very well with my other choices for my Technics.

Arms. Tried Jelco, tried Origin Live, Sme, Rega, Triplanar, Graham. Currently I use a Triplanar.

PSUs tried most of them, the Paul Hynes Sr3 or Sr5 are good choices, but much depends on the other items used as PSUs do bring a change to tonality and detail, so you may get better results with Origin Live, or Long Dog Audio. This will depend on your arm, cart, mat choices.

Replacing the platter and bearing do make a difference, but doing so now will be difficult as the time with most choice was a few years back. Mike New bearing or platter work well, Funk firm bearing is good, the current Funk platter with Funk arm worked well, but with my other arms I prefered the mk1 Funk platter.

I have moved on from the Technics, still own it, but prefer my AMG Giro, by a massive margin. Its the best analogue playback I have ever had.

Back in the day I wrote a few reviews about the Technics options

http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/21/04/2015/uptown-funk-the-funk-firm-upgrades-for-the-technics-12001210/

http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/24/12/2015/absolute-power-power-supplies-for-the-technics-12001210-paul-hynes-designs-origin-live-long-dog-audio/

http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/25/02/2016/mike-new-precision-technics-12001210-bearing-foundational-magic-down-under/

[Clive197]

For my two-penny worth I would also recommend the Funk Achromat. I tried many mats from cheap rubbish to some expensive exotica. The Achromat was by far the best. I’ve tried a 1210 with power supply removed but did not feel there was an audio improvement over my own 1210 so left that bit alone. Isonoes are worthwhile and definitely improve the suspension over original feet. Replacing the bearing while making a small improvement, I did not feel was worth the expense if original bearing is in good condition, however I did replace the bearing to a Mike New product which is now getting a bit harder to obtain.
As for the arm, cartridge, you pays your money and and takes your choice, don’t forget to account for arm board. A good idea is to speak to Hugo at Ammonite Audio of this parish. He has a wealth of experience.

[HD Goofnut]

Hi Ben,

I've gone this route, literally upgraded my 1210 to within an inch of it's life, with all the best parts ie: Isonoe isolation feet, Mike New ETP platter, Mike New bearing, Mike New bearing base plate, Micro Seiki MA202 tonearm, Ortofon pure silver headshell leads, ebony armboard, Paul Hynes SR7-21 EHD external power supply with pure silver pure silver deck to power supply lead with Jaegar low impedance connector.

No expense spared, spent a shed-load.

Would I do it again? no.

Was it worth it ? For the experience and learning - yes. Financially no

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and if I knew then what I know now I'd have gone the route I eventually have - Technics SP-10......


Anyway, My advise is that you dont need to go crazy and spend mad amounts of money to get good results and enjoy the 1210.

Mine thrilled me to bits with simple mods and an Ortofon 2M Black on groove tracing duty :)

Bare in mind that once you change the tonearm you lose the excellent and super convenient Technics on the fly vta, it's a compromise if you are going to use top carts like the 2M Black but wont be deal breaker if you dont intend on using carts with Shibata profiles like the 2MB which are very finicky/fussy about setup and in particular vta.

Keeping things simple, cost/spend conscious but effective, I'd definitely go:

-Isonoe feet, look cool IMO and are certainly better than the stock feet in terms of isolation, clearly made better in terms of absorbing vibration over the stock boots.
-Get one of the reasonably priced off board power supplies https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/352515843442?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=352515843442&targetid=521080696731&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045881&poi=&campaignid=7412990587&mkgroupid=76068634930&rlsatarget=pla-521080696731&abcId=1139356&merchantid=7110924&gclid=CjwKCAiA6bvwBRBbEiwAUER6JchGqQVTg-DD6V7V_YVgQbAtb6VWdgZx1c9_zilA1N4LSLwVP6kRPhoC9PkQ AvD_BwE There are other 12XX exteranl powers supplies out there including Origin Live and Paul Hynes etc, have a search

- Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearm - A very well made and respected vintage tonearm which I think matches the 12XX beautifully. You should be able to pick up a tidy one for under £200, then send it to Angus (Phonomac) for an overhaul, re-wire and new hybrid ceramic bearings. It also has on the fly vta. Not quite as slick as the techies on the fly but on the fly all the same and most certainly a good thing to have than not.

See images here for an idea of the MA-202 on a 1210 with ebony armboard https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?53810-GONGS-Music-Maker-2017&highlight=music+maker

- A good decent cart - lots of choice and doesnt need to cost a fortune
- Ebony armboard from Magna Audio here (Speedy Steve)

I wouldnt waste time messing with mats but up to you.

The above shouldnt get silly on spend and will give you a very nice sounding player, a defo step up on what you have without the credit card repayments/debt or remortgage :D

P.S - Keep your eye on Private Exhibitions, good deals can/do pop up ;)

Hi Robert.

Thank you for the very detailed reply and reminding me about the on the fly vt. Yes, you're right I don't want to lose it. Looking at the design of the feet, they look a lot more isolated or at least less connected than the original versions.

Have you any experience of a completely modded tonearm vs. the Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearm or would any difference be like a night and day comparison?

Cart wise I am looking at the Audio Technica AT33EV Cartridge. Would this be a wise mix with their tonearms mentioned above?

I'm also a little stuck on what to do about a headshell so any advice or pointers would be great as I have lost the original one that came with the deck.

[HD Goofnut]

Isonoe feet do make a difference, don't buy the techie boots, they mess the sound up.

Mats, the Oyaide are nice mats the BR12 might be a good alternative to the stock one. I use the previous metal version and weight which work very well with my other choices for my Technics.

Arms. Tried Jelco, tried Origin Live, Sme, Rega, Triplanar, Graham. Currently I use a Triplanar.

PSUs tried most of them, the Paul Hynes Sr3 or Sr5 are good choices, but much depends on the other items used as PSUs do bring a change to tonality and detail, so you may get better results with Origin Live, or Long Dog Audio. This will depend on your arm, cart, mat choices.

Replacing the platter and bearing do make a difference, but doing so now will be difficult as the time with most choice was a few years back. Mike New bearing or platter work well, Funk firm bearing is good, the current Funk platter with Funk arm worked well, but with my other arms I prefered the mk1 Funk platter.

I have moved on from the Technics, still own it, but prefer my AMG Giro, by a massive margin. Its the best analogue playback I have ever had.

Back in the day I wrote a few reviews about the Technics options

http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/21/04/2015/uptown-funk-the-funk-firm-upgrades-for-the-technics-12001210/

http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/24/12/2015/absolute-power-power-supplies-for-the-technics-12001210-paul-hynes-designs-origin-live-long-dog-audio/

http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/25/02/2016/mike-new-precision-technics-12001210-bearing-foundational-magic-down-under/

Hi Neil.

I'm pretty set on modding the 1210 to be honest. I'm putting an old SQ system for my dad, going down the nostalgia route as I'm trying to make his old set up. This is my player that I bought new in the 90's so know it's complete history. Other than servicing, it's 100% original and in pretty good condition considering the use and distances it's travelled. I was looking at spending a fair chunk of cash on another player but didn't see the point as this would have a more personal touch.

Thank you for the links, i'll take a look.

[HD Goofnut]

For my two-penny worth I would also recommend the Funk Achromat. I tried many mats from cheap rubbish to some expensive exotica. The Achromat was by far the best. I’ve tried a 1210 with power supply removed but did not feel there was an audio improvement over my own 1210 so left that bit alone. Isonoes are worthwhile and definitely improve the suspension over original feet. Replacing the bearing while making a small improvement, I did not feel was worth the expense if original bearing is in good condition, however I did replace the bearing to a Mike New product which is now getting a bit harder to obtain.
As for the arm, cartridge, you pays your money and and takes your choice, don’t forget to account for arm board. A good idea is to speak to Hugo at Ammonite Audio of this parish. He has a wealth of experience.


Hi Clive.

Good to hear I am on the right path with a mat and feet. The bearings are original but don't seem in poor condition. One from Ian or one of Mikes would be nice but I fear I am too late to the party to pick one up.

Arm wise I want to stick with on the fly vt. So anything along those lines. Modded original arm or something else as long as it keeps the vt.

Cart wise I am looking at the Audio Technica AT33EV Cartridge but an still undecided on a headshell.

I'll look for Hugo too, thank very much :cheers:

[HD Goofnut]

Hi Richard.

Moving the PSU is of interest but I must ask how much difference is there between the likes of Paul Hynes and the one Robert posted the ebay link to?

I'm new to modding the SL1210 but i'm not new to SQ or being an audiophile geek :lol:

I know there is a lot of snake oil out there and don't want to get unnecessarily*bitten. If both will do the same job and both are equally and well built with the same outcome I don't see any point in paying extra for clever marketing and a name.

[6L6]

The advantage in moving the PSU is because the previously internally mounted transformer is now removed and away from the rest of the table. It's also beneficial to have no mains AC in the table. Is it a worthwhile upgrade? Absolutely, unquestionably. Heck, DIY it, works great, lasts long time. There is no magic in the PSU itself.

Here's what I suggest for upgrade -

PSU
Mat (acromat or cork)
Feet (Merely placing stock feet on vibrapods is wildly better than just stock, no idea why. I have and recommend Isonoes)
Re-wire stock arm. (The stock arm is much better than you expect, I never should have gotten rid of mine... :) )

In my experience you can make the SL-1200 compete with most anything out there, it's a simply wonderful table. This cannot be said enough, and it will stand on it's own quite well compared to any audiophile tables out there today, and simply bury most of them. I also think that changing the arm is not worthwhile, if you are dying to have a go at various arms, start yourself down the SP-10 path and don't look back.

[CageyH]

I disagree that changing the arm is not worthwhile. My Funk FX-1200 works wonderfully well on my SL1200.

[6L6]

I'm not saying it's not worthwhile. I am saying that in my experience, it's not worth the bother as whatever arm you want to use will be put to significantly better effect on a SP-10.

[Wakefield Turntables]

You'll not push a 1210 further than this... https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?9568-Me-and-the-1210-are-gunna-have-us-some-me-time&highlight=1210+gonna+fun

[CageyH]

I'm not saying it's not worthwhile. I am saying that in my experience, it's not worth the bother as whatever arm you want to use will be put to significantly better effect on a SP-10.

But an SP-10 is about £1k before restoration.

[HD Goofnut]

This is where I am at the moment with my list.

- Audio Technica AT33SA Dual Moving Stereo Cartridge
- Micro Seiki MA-505 Tonearm & Headshell
- Magna Audio Ebony Armboard
- Oyaide BR-12 Turntable Mat
- Isonoe Audio Isolation Feet
- MCRU Regulated Dual Output Linear Power Supply or the SR4 Power Supply

The amp is a Trio KA-6000 and the speakers are B&W DM4.

[RobbieGong]

This is where I am at the moment with my list.

- Audio Technica AT33SA Dual Moving Stereo Cartridge
- Micro Seiki MA-505 Tonearm & Headshell
- Magna Audio Ebony Armboard
- Oyaide BR-12 Turntable Mat
- Isonoe Audio Isolation Feet
- MCRU Regulated Dual Output Linear Power Supply or the SR4 Power Supply

The amp is a Trio KA-6000 and the speakers are B&W DM4.

I honestly cant argue with any of that :thumbsup:

[Wakefield Turntables]

This is where I am at the moment with my list.

- Audio Technica AT33SA Dual Moving Stereo Cartridge
- Micro Seiki MA-505 Tonearm & Headshell
- Magna Audio Ebony Armboard
- Oyaide BR-12 Turntable Mat
- Isonoe Audio Isolation Feet
- MCRU Regulated Dual Output Linear Power Supply or the SR4 Power Supply

The amp is a Trio KA-6000 and the speakers are B&W DM4.

Look into an Ikea bamboo chopping board with decent spiked feet. You'll probably spend less than £50 and will notice a difference.

[HD Goofnut]

Look into an Ikea bamboo chopping board with decent spiked feet. You'll probably spend less than £50 and will notice a difference.

I noticed that in your thread you linked to above. It looks great. Is there any way to get the dead images to show in your thread? It was a great read but I do love a photo of two.

[HD Goofnut]

I honestly cant argue with any of that :thumbsup:


Thanks, its nice to know I haven't gone mad.

Do you now if there is a lot of difference between the two PSU's in the the list.

[CageyH]

I think that most of the gain is had by moving the PSU out of the deck.
As long as the PCB is fed clean, regulated power than I personally fail to see what the difference will be between a cheap linear PSU and a more expensive one. It is only used to spin the platter, and without mods to the PCB in the deck, an expensive PSU is probably wasted.

[CageyH]

For info, you can still get a better bearing for the SL1200, but it is not cheap. Funk Firm do a SL1200 version of their bearing, called Sp!n.
I have one, and there was not a massive difference between the Mike New and this one if I am honest.

[Spectral Morn]

I think that most of the gain is had by moving the PSU out of the deck.
As long as the PCB is fed clean, regulated power than I personally fail to see what the difference will be between a cheap linear PSU and a more expensive one. It is only used to spin the platter, and without mods to the PCB in the deck, an expensive PSU is probably wasted.

There is a very clear difference. If you haven't done the comparisons then your view is based on no direct experience.

[Spectral Morn]

For info, you can still get a better bearing for the SL1200, but it is not cheap. Funk Firm do a SL1200 version of their bearing, called Sp!n.
I have one, and there was not a massive difference between the Mike New and this one if I am honest.

There is, again I have done a direct comparison.

[CageyH]

There is, again I have done a direct comparison.

I have too. So which bearing would you recommend, and what platter did you use it with?
It is a bit of a moot point though, as there is only one of them readily available on the market. There is a slightly cheaper bearing available though, which looks like a modified SL1200 bearing from pictures I have seen. The Timestep bearing.

[CageyH]

There is a very clear difference. If you haven't done the comparisons then your view is based on no direct experience.

What is the clear difference? Does it improve wow and flutter, (which is already pretty good).
The PSU is not in the audio chain in any way, so it cannot affect much else, apart from the lack of interference.

[HD Goofnut]

There is a very clear difference. If you haven't done the comparisons then your view is based on no direct experience.


The PSU is not in the audio chain in any way, so it cannot affect much else, apart from the lack of interference.

This is what I was thinking. I would really appreciate your input when you read this Neil as I would like to buy what is needed first time round without having to pull thing apart to swap parts over :)

[Spectral Morn]

What is the clear difference? Does it improve wow and flutter, (which is already pretty good).
The PSU is not in the audio chain in any way, so it cannot affect much else, apart from the lack of interference.

Kevin I linked to the reviews I wrote, subjective ones. I am not willing to debate you. You state your belief based on no experience, I challenged that, my experience comparing numerous PSUs is there. I compared two others at the same time, but threats to sue me if I mentioned the company or the results means I left those PSUs out of the review, despite owning and having paid for them with my own money.

And as a reminder this is a subjectivist forum.

[Spectral Morn]

This is what I was thinking. I would really appreciate your input when you read this Neil as I would like to buy what is needed first time round without having to pull thing apart to swap parts over :)

I left three links to extensive subjective reviews, please read them. I can't say more here, that I haven't said on them.

[CageyH]

Kevin I linked to the reviews I wrote, subjective ones. I am not willing to debate you. You state your belief based on no experience, I challenged that, my experience comparing numerous PSUs is there. I compared two others at the same time, but threats to sue me if I mentioned the company or the results means I left those PSUs out of the review, despite owning and having paid for them with my own money.

And as a reminder this is a subjectivist forum.

I am not after a debate. I have made my choice.
Additional information is useful to the OP.

I admit I have not compared PSUs, but I did compare bearings and went for the one I preferred. My system having the LDA PSU, Strata, Spin and FX1200 mkII with the aluminium arm tube.

I am interested in learning/understanding how a PSU that feeds a motor can influence the sound though.

I know that there were new regulators available from Paul Hynes for the SL1200 at one point, but I have never heard a deck with these fitted to fully appreciate the effect that they have.

[RobbieGong]

Thanks, its nice to know I haven't gone mad.

Do you now if there is a lot of difference between the two PSU's in the the list.

I'm not sure from a technical perspective to be honest.

I went from a fairly basic Timestep external psu, back in the day, to eventually the Paul Hynes SR7 which is a big, top nothch external PSU - not cheap either but it's a lot of quality psu, hence.

Pauls power supplies are respected and regarded, for good design and implementation, low noise, quality components etc.

All that said I tended to upgrade two, even three items at a time so very hard for me to say what the external psu, in isolation brought to the table, so to speak.

Personally, I believe the MCRU techie psu is a good one and that's a good price.

Either way, removing the transformer from inside the deck/under the platter is going to be beneficial, especially alongside other mods so I wouldn't worry / overthink it :)

[6L6]

But an SP-10 is about £1k before restoration.

Yes.

And you need a plinth and an arm...

But it’s also arguably the best turntable ever made. So cheap as chips in the grand scheme of things. They are getting more expensive lately, which is sad, but they are still a fantastic bargain when performance is taken into account. I’ve recently gotten another to restore. Currently considering what color to paint the chassis. :)

[Clive197]

The discussion re benefits of removing or using a separate power supply is moot. The issue is about the possible pickup of mains noise by the cartridge. In my own case and with a number of cartridges (Ortofon, Audio Technica & Hana) I’ve not had the problem. I did try a different power supply on another SL1200 but as I said in a previous post found no difference.
I’m sure that the quality of a power supply can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and have no technical expertise to comment. I did however find a worthwhile improvement on my Chord Qutest DAC when I changed the standard SMPS wallwart for a Linear SBooster.

[Shovel_Knight]

But it’s also arguably the best turntable ever made.

This is a rather strong claim, isn't it? Don't get me wrong, I love my SP10 mk2, and I would like to think that it's the best turntable ever, but there are many great and even more sophisticated turntables out there.

[RobbieGong]

This is a rather strong claim, isn't it? Don't get me wrong, I love my SP10 mk2, and I would like to think that it's the best turntable ever, but there are many great and even more sophisticated turntables out there.

Note he said arguably :)

Either way and all said and done, search the net and literally every 'best turntable' thread, blog, article will have the SP-10 in it's list ....;) and usually with a load of good reasons, technical and otherwise, to inform and support why. Bottom line, I would say is that it is one of the best.

[Wakefield Turntables]

A well sorted 1210 will easily match any SP10 any day of the week and I would are superior to them. And yes I have heard all versions of SP10's and I'll keep my 1210 any day of the week over the SP10.

[RobbieGong]

Easy Andy, big big talk fella :lol:

You've spent mortgage money on yours so I'd expect you to say no different :D

My 1210 was heavily modded too and as you also know I recently sold it and replaced it with an SP10 MKll

I've not heard it yet, (long story) and as soon as I receive my Yannis tonearm cable and get the SP-10 set up properly, evaluation / critical listening will commence and you can bet your 1210 I'll be feeding back my findings here, honestly and unbiased.

I lived with my 1210 a long time and can still remember how it sounded.

Only difference in my system will be the Yannis 423.5Plus, which is supposed to be an 'improved' 423.5 :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Easy Andy, big big talk fella :lol:

You've spent mortgage money on yours so I'd expect you to say no different :D

My 1210 was heavily modded too and as you also know I recently sold it and replaced it with an SP10 MKll

I've not heard it yet, (long story) and as soon as I receive my Yannis tonearm cable and get the SP-10 set up properly, evaluation / critical listening will commence and you can bet your 1210 I'll be feeding back my findings here, honestly and unbiased.

I lived with my 1210 a long time and can still remember how it sounded.

Only difference in my system will be the Yannis 423.5Plus, which is supposed to be an 'improved' 423.5 :)

Rob, I think your going to be in for a very nice surprise when you get your SP10 back. I'm happy with my 1210 and I'll never get another DD turntable. TBH I think I'm at the end of my hifi journey. It would have to be something very very special for me to get another deck or start another major resto project. So what's the difference between the tonearm cables?

[RobbieGong]

Rob, I think your going to be in for a very nice surprise when you get your SP10 back. I'm happy with my 1210 and I'll never get another DD turntable. TBH I think I'm at the end of my hifi journey. It would have to be something very very special for me to get another deck or start another major resto project. So what's the difference between the tonearm cables?

Looks like various improvements in terms of build, construction, shielding etc - I found the 423.5 excellent and would expect the 423.5 Plus to have the same excellent qualities in terms of it's way with the music, which was generally allowing the music to come through naturally with insight and textural accuracy. https://www.back-promo.co.uk/html/423_5phono-litz_plus.html

[vs_jk]

I have a couple systems at home. One is a speaker system with digital front and Magnepan speakers. My second system is headphone based with a turntable only as source. Because I listen through headphones to this turntable system, it can be very revealing of changes.

I’ve had my Technics SL1210 MK2 since new many years ago when they were relatively inexpensive. However, I’ve only started modding my turntable about 5 years ago. Even then my modifications are not nearly as extensive as many of the other people on this forum. I can offer the following comments about each modification. These are in chronological order from the first to most recent.

Heatshrink on tonearm - This provided the first taste of how much the turntable can be improved with modest modifications. I was really amazed at how much the overall sound improved from this simple and cheap mod. It really did improve just about everything in the sound. I would highly recommend doing this!

Vibrostop platter mat - These turntables are known to have a dark sounding coloration. This mat did change the sound, although subtly, away from the dark sound.

IanMac bearing with oil reservoir and KAB thrust plate wax - There is more focus to the overall sound and not just the lower registers. The bass got better defined but so did the rest of the frequency range. Because of the lowered noise floor, the perception is of being able to hear deeper into the mix and therefore also getting more details such as reverberations. The sound comes from a black background.

Upon listening to a lot of my albums, I found there are new things I heard in them. For instance on Rush- Power Windows, there are moments in the music where on my main speaker system, I can hear holographic transparency. This wasn’t readily apparent on my turntable based system until the Ian Mac bearing went in. I think it’s because it lowers the noise floor and it tightens things up that these types of sonics are more readily heard.

I have no regrets about the bearing upgrade and am very impressed with it. Because the rest of the system is fairly resolving, it easily reveals changes in sound with each tweak. And I can honestly say that the bearing was not a subtle difference.

custom cherry wood cabinet with Vibrapods underneath - In my opinion this definitely improves the turntable aesthetically. And the Vibrapods underneath help in isolating the turntable.

KAB tonearm damper - I could hear a difference in sound immediately. The noise floor was lowered and the highs came across with more sparkle. This combined with the lowered noise floor made the recordings seems more 3 dimensional and realistic sounding. The natural reverb from the recording venue were more clearly distinguished. However, the bass was initially reduced while at the same time seeming more tight. What I learned is that the amount of oil in the reservoir is directly related to how much bass you get out of the sound. Experimenting led to finding that 30% full was for me just the right amount to where I got all the benefits including the bass being tighter yet not diminished overall.

With these mods, I can say that the top 3 are easily the IanMac bearing, heat shrink on tonearm, and the KAB tonearm damper. I would highly recommend starting out with the tonearm heat shrink as it will only cost you a few dollars but will give you good insight into how much the stock deck can be improved.

The only other mod I plan to do someday is the external PSU. I haven’t settled on any particular one but will most likely go with the KAB.

[RobbieGong]

I have a couple systems at home. One is a speaker system with digital front and Magnepan speakers. My second system is headphone based with a turntable only as source. Because I listen through headphones to this turntable system, it can be very revealing of changes.

I’ve had my Technics SL1210 MK2 since new many years ago when they were relatively inexpensive. However, I’ve only started modding my turntable about 5 years ago. Even then my modifications are not nearly as extensive as many of the other people on this forum. I can offer the following comments about each modification. These are in chronological order from the first to most recent.

Heatshrink on tonearm - This provided the first taste of how much the turntable can be improved with modest modifications. I was really amazed at how much the overall sound improved from this simple and cheap mod. It really did improve just about everything in the sound. I would highly recommend doing this!

Vibrostop platter mat - These turntables are known to have a dark sounding coloration. This mat did change the sound, although subtly, away from the dark sound.

IanMac bearing with oil reservoir and KAB thrust plate wax - There is more focus to the overall sound and not just the lower registers. The bass got better defined but so did the rest of the frequency range. Because of the lowered noise floor, the perception is of being able to hear deeper into the mix and therefore also getting more details such as reverberations. The sound comes from a black background.

Upon listening to a lot of my albums, I found there are new things I heard in them. For instance on Rush- Power Windows, there are moments in the music where on my main speaker system, I can hear holographic transparency. This wasn’t readily apparent on my turntable based system until the Ian Mac bearing went in. I think it’s because it lowers the noise floor and it tightens things up that these types of sonics are more readily heard.

I have no regrets about the bearing upgrade and am very impressed with it. Because the rest of the system is fairly resolving, it easily reveals changes in sound with each tweak. And I can honestly say that the bearing was not a subtle difference.

custom cherry wood cabinet with Vibrapods underneath - In my opinion this definitely improves the turntable aesthetically. And the Vibrapods underneath help in isolating the turntable.

KAB tonearm damper - I could hear a difference in sound immediately. The noise floor was lowered and the highs came across with more sparkle. This combined with the lowered noise floor made the recordings seems more 3 dimensional and realistic sounding. The natural reverb from the recording venue were more clearly distinguished. However, the bass was initially reduced while at the same time seeming more tight. What I learned is that the amount of oil in the reservoir is directly related to how much bass you get out of the sound. Experimenting led to finding that 30% full was for me just the right amount to where I got all the benefits including the bass being tighter yet not diminished overall.

With these mods, I can say that the top 3 are easily the IanMac bearing, heat shrink on tonearm, and the KAB tonearm damper. I would highly recommend starting out with the tonearm heat shrink as it will only cost you a few dollars but will give you good insight into how much the stock deck can be improved.

The only other mod I plan to do someday is the external PSU. I haven’t settled on any particular one but will most likely go with the KAB.

Can imagine heat-shrink applied sensibly would be effective at keeping resonances at bay.

Had the KAB damper at the start of my modding journey and yes, really liked it - just be careful with that oil, you dont want that spilling anywhere :eek: good if your deck stays put, not ideal if you tend to move it other places / transport it about .....

Again these dont 'cost' but make a difference for the better, incrementally even more so.

[HD Goofnut]

I don't believe Ian is making his bearing anymore and new parts seem to have been discontinued.

[Cycleallday]

You are correct - he was pretty ill a while back and no longer makes parts for these decks.

An alternative option is often found on eBay. Its a KAB modification to the existing bearing. The mod can be bought direct from KAB (USA) and added to your current bearing but on ebay it is sold as an already moded bearing (new base plate with wax to put under the bearing).

I have both on different decks and i doubt you would spot the difference unless you heard them side by side.

Mel

[mikeyb]

Ian has mended [emoji6] in fact he bought my spare Denon 103R the other day [emoji4]

But due to the cost of the original bearings and the fact that there isn’t much of a market for his upgraded ones he hasn’t done any in ages.

[Shovel_Knight]

There's also Dave Cawley's Timestep bearing which is still available IIRC.

[Spectral Morn]

I don't believe Ian is making his bearing anymore and new parts seem to have been discontinued.

pm him and if you supplied a bearing, always bearings on EBay, he might do you one. I never availed of doing that, because I moved on from the Technics being my main interest, which came about as a result of wanting to test everything that was being said on here and elsewhere. Having done that, wrote about it (I never did a comparison of mats, that was going to happen, but I think there is none to little interest now I won't) I moved on to other things. The Ian Mac bearing, if he will do you one will be about the best option, bar a used Spin, or Mike New, which do still crop up. Vantage Audio bearings are out there too.

I do still have a modded 1200, and I won't be parting with it, but my main turntable is different now.

[CageyH]

The Spin is one of the few still available, but it is not cheap.
I believe that the Timestep is also still available, as is the KAB. They were last time I looked, but it has been a few years.

[vs_jk]

I didn't have the opportunity to compare to other bearings. But I can tell you the IanMac is very well done. He used to have two versions. I got the type that has an oil trough. Here is what the bearing looks like compared to stock.
https://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18672&d=1480303414https://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18673&d=1480303431

[HD Goofnut]

You are correct - he was pretty ill a while back and no longer makes parts for these decks.

An alternative option is often found on eBay. Its a KAB modification to the existing bearing. The mod can be bought direct from KAB (USA) and added to your current bearing but on ebay it is sold as an already moded bearing (new base plate with wax to put under the bearing).

I have both on different decks and i doubt you would spot the difference unless you heard them side by side.

Mel

Thanks for the advice but I will hold out for one of Ian's coming up for sale.



Ian has mended [emoji6] in fact he bought my spare Denon 103R the other day [emoji4]

But due to the cost of the original bearings and the fact that there isn’t much of a market for his upgraded ones he hasn’t done any in ages.

I chatted with him briefly via email but didn't want to hassle him. I have said I would like one but if he isn't doing modding anymore, one isn't going to be tempting enough to get him out of retirement.


There's also Dave Cawley's Timestep bearing which is still available IIRC.

As above, appreciate the advice and input. I'll hope against hope that one of Ian's comes up for sale.


pm him and if you supplied a bearing, always bearings on EBay, he might do you one. I never availed of doing that, because I moved on from the Technics being my main interest, which came about as a result of wanting to test everything that was being said on here and elsewhere. Having done that, wrote about it (I never did a comparison of mats, that was going to happen, but I think there is none to little interest now I won't) I moved on to other things. The Ian Mac bearing, if he will do you one will be about the best option, bar a used Spin, or Mike New, which do still crop up. Vantage Audio bearings are out there too.

I do still have a modded 1200, and I won't be parting with it, but my main turntable is different now.

We caught up via email. I said I would like one but I'm not going to hassle him about it for obvious reasons. If he wants to make another I'm sure he will get in touch.


The Spin is one of the few still available, but it is not cheap.
I believe that the Timestep is also still available, as is the KAB. They were last time I looked, but it has been a few years.

Holding out for one of Ians :D


I didn't have the opportunity to compare to other bearings. But I can tell you the IanMac is very well done. He used to have two versions. I got the type that has an oil trough. Here is what the bearing looks like compared to stock.

The workmanship speaks for itself, nice bit of engineering. It looks amazing.

[mikeyb]

Drop Ian a pm, you never know [emoji6]

He's been building an amp for his son and is tinkering again so he might be willing to help you out.

[bighead1707]

Is there any better SL1200 platter available? Funk Firm's is very expensive.

[CageyH]

Inspire HiFi for bearing and platter, failing that, 2nd hand.
I have no experience of the Inspire HiFi products.

[Wakefield Turntables]

There is a mike new bearing for sale on the forum I'd snap that up right now.

[CageyH]

They don't get much beter than the Mike New bearing. Sure, it is expensive, but I doubt you would lose much on it if you decided to.sell.it on.

[CageyH]

I had a look at the Funk Firm website, and they no longer list platter and bearing upgrades. It seems like the market for modified Technics SL12xx parts is drying up, possibly due to lack of demand.

So, if you want a different platter and bearing, buy them while you still can, if you can find the stock.

[Spectral Morn]

A week ago the bearing and plater were, looks like a site update has occurred. To be frank, the platter at the list price £825, as was, was a complete and utter joke. Neither the fit and finish or material used could justify that price. The previous version was better in terms of fit and finish, and much cheaper.

There was one for sale on here, now sold, and at £325 its selling price, that is a fair price for what the Strata was, in regards of its material, fit and finish. I note the sellers platter also originally had the Mike New bearing fit issue, which makes me think that seller got the early production bearing hub, which was made before that problem was discovered, by myself and another early tester.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Mike New all the way baby!

[Spectral Morn]

Mike New all the way baby!

Off the used market as Mike seems to no longer be active.

[CageyH]

Mike is no longer active, Funk seems to be stopping. Where will people get upgraded bearings and platters from now?

[Wakefield Turntables]

the mike new bearing appears to be sold. Snooze u looze.

[Lordlidder]

Hi there from my experience i would go for external psu,better arm(i use sme 309,Damn fine!) and yes the at 33ev cartridge which i also use,oh and cheapo sorbothane feet. Try that first then fanny about with owt else you're tempted to but those 3 are the best mods. Make sure you got a quality arm lead too I made one from pure silver with ptfe insulation,better than the sme original!...Enjoy the music.

[Ianmac]

Look at the ianmac bearing thread.
Im considering whether its worthwhile reworking good used bearings
I have one brand new techie bearing modded to full oil filled running available.
I have one used bearing modified and looking for someone to test it
Ian