NAS, Hard Drive or something else entirely ?

[Mr.Ian]

I have been playing with my SB touch over Christmas, its been sitting in system and somewhat unused of late but coupled with a remote control app on my phone I can see lots of upsides but 1 big downside.

The downside is I have the squeeze box server on my home pc which means I have to have it running all the time!

My initial though was to buy a Synology NAS and some drives but the cost starts to mount up and I see loads of posts about connectivity issues so I am thinking about other routes.

The SB touch outputs to either a Young Dac or a Topping D50 via USB with a preference for the Young Dac quality wise, I find its more musical than the Topping albeit at a price. I have other devices on the coax and optical inputs.

So the big questions are

1. is there a low cost NAS solutiion
2. Do I junk the SB touch and try a Pi with I guess 2 USB sockets, file input and music out
3. Try a USB hub to increase the number of USB sockets and get the Touch to do the decoding (doesnt sound a great idea to me)
4. Try something else entirely

[Alp]

I use a Synology NAS running LMS, doing up- sampling with my RPI4 and that works well.

The main connectivity issues I have had have been WiFi related.

I have previously run LMS (comes with Picoreplayer) on a RPI3 with a 500 GB SSD attached via a USB cable, which also works very well and doesn't need a separate power supply that an external drive would. You could thus use an RPI as a low cost NAS.

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[Dave W]

I have a Synology NAS and a SB, and have no issues with it.

[Cycleallday]

I use 2 Synology NAS units at home. One has been running without problem for over 12years ( although i have upsized the discs in that time).

This NAS is timed to switch off (using its own internal settings) at midnight and restart at 8am each day.

It provides access to my large iTunes music file from all of my in house (wifi based) streaming devices including Pi, Naim, Bluesound node' smart tv's, etc.

It also provides cloud access when i am away from home via the phone based Synolgy media apps.

I have never had any setup up or connection problems caused by the unit itself - sometimes i have needed to carefully read the extensive on line help to get it to what I want !

For the use i have out of these units they are far from expensive and have proved incredibly reliable and very simple to upgrade discs as additional storage space becomes required

Out of interest I also deploy them into small business's for whom i provide IT support.

Mel

[Yatsushiro]

An RPi4 (2GB), a 2TB drive attached to the USB3 on the Pi, Ubuntu Server running LMS with a samba share defined to transfer files from your PC to your server. This will provide a low entry cost NAS, you can still use your SBT, and can grow the system with RPi based players (including synced multiroom if required) as your needs change.

[Mr.Ian]

This NAS is timed to switch off (using its own internal settings) at midnight and restart at 8am each day.
Mel

that sounds might useful, ds120j is only £90 inc vat.

[Mr.Ian]

An RPi4 (2GB), a 2TB drive attached to the USB3 on the Pi, Ubuntu Server running LMS with a samba share defined to transfer files from your PC to your server. This will provide a low entry cost NAS, you can still use your SBT, and can grow the system with RPi based players (including synced multiroom if required) as your needs change.

This sounds good too. Bit less tidy but probably more flexible longer term. Like the idea of syncing files from the pc

[StanleyB]

I have tried a NAS with my SB Touch twice, but ended up settling on a laptop to use as a server. It's faster than the NAS, I can edit music tags easily on the same machine that I use for any thing music related,and easier to back up the files on a separate drive. That's what caused me to give up on the NAS in the 1st place after a read/write error to the drive scrapped my whole music library stored on it.

[RMutt]

Is there much of a difference in convenience or energy saving between having a NAS box running all the time or a pc with the monitor off? It’s a genuine question. I have a similar situation as Mr.Ian and have toyed with the idea of NAS in the past.

[StanleyB]

If you are using a desktop or tower PC then the power consumption will be high. That's why I use a laptop. Plus it is possible to switch on and off many laptops remotely via the network if you know how, and if your laptop supports remote operatioon.

[Made in 1968]

Stan:
Been there done it with music files.. was short lived with me.. However i did end up using my old Dell Studio Hybird with is technically a tower but uses Laptop parts..

[StanleyB]

What I like about using a laptop is that I can use full power for editing etc., and switch to power saving mode during music playback so that the fan doesn't come on. I can get away with several hours of use on battery power only that way. And combined with the SSD storage the laptop is dead quiet.

[Mr.Ian]

after a day messing around with various versions of linux and and old low spec mini pc I dont think this is the way to go. It just too difficult to get it to it all to work.

The easiest way would be to have the server and music files on my main pc and just leave it running for longer, but there are times when I think lets listen to some music and the PC is powered down.

So I am now thinking that a single drive NAS is the cleanest solution. Rip the music to my main pc and then back up the music to the nas. (I use cloud and external drive back up for more important files) Always on and low power use. £90 for a new NAS and say £50 for a small drive.

A higher spec laptop with a large drive running w10 might make initial set up easier but its no cheaper than a single bay nas and the laptop is going to be more difficult to site that a small nas. Shape is wrong etc

[dave2010]

If you are using a desktop or tower PC then the power consumption will be high. That's why I use a laptop. Plus it is possible to switch on and off many laptops remotely via the network if you know how, and if your laptop supports remote operatioon.I hadn’t thought that using a NAS such as the Synology units would be a good option. Even a 2 bay unit costs over £100, plus the cost of putting in drives - so maybe £300 minimum.

However, if the installation turned out to be simple, and reliability high, then maybe this could work. Looking at the claimed spec for some Synology units, the power consumption is 50kW per year. That works out at around £10 at 20p per unit - though some providers may charge more, some rather less. I have used desktops to run the LMS server in the past, but I think they run at 25W minimum if switched on even in standby. That would be 0.6kW per day for always on operation - say 12p/day. That’d be around £50 per year in electricity costs. The differential saving could be £40 per year using the NAS, so would have to run reliably for perhaps 8 years to outstrip just using a desktop as a server. As I recall, if desktops start to do serious work, the power consumption might go up by a factor of 4 - say to 100 W, or 2.4 kW per day, equivalent to 48p per day at the rates suggested - approximately £180 per year, so the differential saving using a NAS could be £120 per year, giving rise to a minimum break even period of about 3 years.

Laptops use considerably less power, while some machines which can function like desktops (e.g. Mac Mini) also have power consumption similar to laptops.

I have tried NAS storage before, though not from Synology. I have had hardware failures, and setting systems and networks up can be unduly complicated.

If there’s a real need for highly reliable networks and storage solutions, with associated infrastructure, then running a NAS to provide a music server as well as other core functions could be a way to go. Otherwise these methods are perhaps overkill - and in a domestic environment it might actually be easier to just listen to music via CDs or SACD players.

[Made in 1968]

Hi Dave
Yep Physical discs are a much easier option but for people continue buy new music they are pretty much forced down the files/Streaming route because i truly believe CD's are pretty much history, i notice less & less in shops that stocked a lot more at one point..

[mightymonoped]

Just thought I might throw this additional option as it’s one that works well for me at home...

*usual provisos apply as far as backups of data is concerned, all disks can fail.

In this configuration, the only device consuming power when not listening to music, is the home router.

My BT Homehub supports USB device connections so in this setup I use a 1TB Solid State Drive connected via USB using an unpowered drive chassis (available for about a fiver).

The drive contents are updated by connecting via laptop (Macbook) using SMB.

The contents are seen as a music library by Volumio running on an RPi 3.

Using this configuration, I only use the laptop to either update or backup the contents when required.

The music is accessible via the RPi when it is on and I have a choice of streaming FLAC files or Tidal HiFi at will.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200103/a2cd116af917836967e0fa0212a76c83.jpg


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[dave2010]

Hi Dave
Yep Physical discs are a much easier option but for people continue buy new music they are pretty much forced down the files/Streaming route because i truly believe CD's are pretty much history, i notice less & less in shops that stocked a lot more at one point..I agree that's an issue. It isn't such a problem for me at present, as I have many CDs and SACDs, and can still source new ones.

For CDs it's possible that some streaming sites (or in some cases download sites) can provide equivalent or even better quality, and then if there is no need to have physical media users don't need to buy them.

For surround sound offerings this is harder, and currently I think only SACD and Blu-Ray provide surround sound audio. If there are streaming or download sites for surround sound, I'd expect them to be much more expensive, and also difficult to handle because of the amount of data needed to transfer. Maybe there are some surround sound sites - but I don't know of them.

[dave2010]

Just thought I might throw this additional option as it’s one that works well for me at home...

*usual provisos apply as far as backups of data is concerned, all disks can fail.

In this configuration, the only device consuming power when not listening to music, is the home router.

My BT Homehub supports USB device connections so in this setup I use a 1TB Solid State Drive connected via USB using an unpowered drive chassis (available for about a fiver).

The drive contents are updated by connecting via laptop (Macbook) using SMB.

The contents are seen as a music library by Volumio running on an RPi 3.

Using this configuration, I only use the laptop to either update or backup the contents when required.

The music is accessible via the RPi when it is on and I have a choice of streaming FLAC files or Tidal HiFi at will.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200103/a2cd116af917836967e0fa0212a76c83.jpg

That's really quite interesting. I have heard of routers supporting storage devices before - I wasn't sure of the Homehubs though. It'll take a little investigation though, to check this out. I don't know about volumio.

[Ashmore]

Yes I thought this was a pretty elegant solution too. Are the files on the SSD just stored 'as normal' without there being any other software on it like LMS? And you can point volumio to the folder and it picks them up? Does Volumio tell the SSD to 'spin up' (I know it doesn't actually spin up) when needed or do you just switch it on manually when you want to listen?

[struth]

I leave a pc(small laptop) on all time although screen is off mostly. its connected to my system, but connectable from my laptop next to me i use.
Has a large hdd attached and music streams both ways.

[mightymonoped]

Yes I thought this was a pretty elegant solution too. Are the files on the SSD just stored 'as normal' without there being any other software on it like LMS? And you can point volumio to the folder and it picks them up? Does Volumio tell the SSD to 'spin up' (I know it doesn't actually spin up) when needed or do you just switch it on manually when you want to listen?

Yes, the files are just stored in a folder (or folders) and Volumio is just pointed to it in exactly the same way as you would with a NAS or USB Drive. As it's an SSD, there's no 'spin up' or switch on even (as the power is via the USB connection).

I basically just power on my amp, then the RPi and listen at leisure to either LAN or Internet streamed content.

[Ashmore]

Neat. I used to use a vortexbox - a little bespoke headless Linux distro that ripped CDs and then served them via LMS. About a year ago I bought a two disc Synology NAS, which runs LMS. It does the job impeccably as well as doing back up duties for photos, but it does sometimes seem like overkill...

[Made in 1968]

What confuses me with File based systems is what seems to be a lot of Hassle & people need to use a complex way of setting things up into a system! I never thought it was suppose to be that way. I always stood by the notion that if something is labourious regarding computers & computer based peripherals its not been done right, no different from using a computer in general.. in most cases there is no need for the complexity.

I understand that a lot of people do like overkill & prefer to go all out, i also get to thinking that people are going all out unawares that they are doing so.. i suppose its part of the fun in the hobby at the end of the day with some, others hell on earth but what do i know, sending a simple message on the mobile phone is a nightmare enough for me :lol:

[Ashmore]

I feel your pain. I think the challenge is that there are so many solutions to choose from. They're often not difficult to implement, nor do they have to be expensive, but they do usually seem to involve two of three things 'doing stuff together' - unless of course you go down the commercial plug and play route (e.g. naim star or atom). I agree that simplest is best is a good philosophy, hence my admiration for Tony's SSD solution.

[mightymonoped]

Neat. I used to use a vortexbox - a little bespoke headless Linux distro that ripped CDs and then served them via LMS. About a year ago I bought a two disc Synology NAS, which runs LMS. It does the job impeccably as well as doing back up duties for photos, but it does sometimes seem like overkill...

I've tried a few different configurations but found this to be suited best to my needs. I'm familiar with NAS setups as I've used Synology boxes in work for years. If I need more file storage or want something more flexible, I would certainly go down that route. To be honest though, I'm finding that the quality and convenience of the Tidal Hifi streaming via Volumio has supplanted most of my own file content as far as regular listening is concerned. I really don't find myself ripping CDs or adding files locally anywhere near as much as I used to.

The RPi + Katana + Shanti setup has left my vinyl and CD-based sources pretty much sidelined.

[struth]

been trialling roon. its pretty good connection wise... think i prefer the sound via my main system. Jriver has the edge on headphone system tho. Seems you can make your rpi a roon endpiece using a program called Ropieee