Speaker Cable DIY or Not?

[Ninanina]

I’m going to upgrade my speaker cable and kinda thought about making my own using the following from Furutech:

This for cable, Alpha-S14 at £33 p/m so two runs of 2.5m @ £165:
https://www.analogueseduction.net/un-terminated/S-14.html

These for spades, FP-201 in Rhodium £70 for 4:
https://www.analogueseduction.net/spade-connectors/furutech-fp-201-spade-connectors-pack-of-4.html

These for bananas, FP-200B in Rhodium £70 for 4:
https://www.analogueseduction.net/banana-plugs/furutech-fp-200b-banana-plugs-pack-of-2.html

Totalling £305

Now what do people think I’ll end up with if I went that route? Would it be a £300 set of speaker cables or, because I’m making them, they’d perform better than a bought pair of £300 speaker cables... gosh hope that makes sense :D

[Hibster_2000]

I think the cable looks a bit thin to me. What power does your amp produce?

[Ninanina]

I've had a recommendation from Alan (Firebottle) which I'll be trying...

[Firebottle]

Can't reply by PM, the Firewall is blocking me.


There is no extra insulation on the 14 strands, it is all bare wire twisted around the centre core. There is only the one outer clear insulating layer to be stripped off, it is very easy.
Don't disturb the lay of the cable strands, just insert into the plugs.

The cable is quite stiff so you don't need the Y boot, I just left the red and black uncovered so you could see which was which.

[Ninanina]

Thanks Alan... so you wouldn't solder the 14 strands to the inner wire ?

[Firebottle]

No just do the screws up tight, ooh Vicar :eyebrows:

[Ninanina]

Thanks Alan

I've just ordered my cable but they are out of stock so will be a little while

[Floyddroid]

Consider Missing link too. I think that is something i will be looking at when funds permit

[Ninanina]

I had a choice of hundreds of cables, both made and to make myself, but decided to give Alan's suggestion a go..

I've ordered some nice'ish plugs, AudioQuest SureGrip 300 Series:
http://i.imgur.com/5uPnIRp.jpg (https://imgur.com/5uPnIRp) http://i.imgur.com/1BRvRmj.jpg (https://imgur.com/1BRvRmj)

And some black & red braid, this:
http://i.imgur.com/dAV2aeW.jpg (https://imgur.com/dAV2aeW)

Will use a little heatshrink on the ends of the braid to make them neat

Think they'll look quite smart when finished...

[Barry]

I would use a much heavier gauge of wire for speaker cable. A loop resistance of 27mOhm / metre is not especially good. You can do much better for less expense.

Also don't be swayed to much by the claims of OCC copper. The Oho continuous casting process may create copper wire with few crystal boundaries when the wire is drawn. But by the time the wire is wound onto a drum and then twisted to form multi-stranded cable, the wire is stressed beyond its elastic limit, so introducing many new additional crystal boundaries.

[Firebottle]

But have you actually tried any leads with OCC copper Barry?

[karma67]

i would say getting the right gauge of wire far outweighs any differences between occ ofc or just ordinary good quailty copper imo alan.

[Marra]

Bev would you or Alan care to enlighten us as to what the recommended cable is please.

[Ninanina]

Bev would you or Alan care to enlighten us as to what the recommended cable is please.

Yes Keith no problem, it's this cable:

Black
http://i.imgur.com/ymGIEjG.jpg (https://imgur.com/ymGIEjG)
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hook-up-wires/1877phono-graphene-wiring-cable-occ-copper-silver-262mm-graphene-insulation-o53mm-black-p-14003.html

Red
http://i.imgur.com/Rk9ZvLk.jpg (https://imgur.com/Rk9ZvLk)
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hook-up-wires/1877phono-graphene-wiring-cable-occ-copper-silver-262mm-graphene-insulation-o53mm-red-p-14004.html

[Marra]

Thank you Bev that looks very interesting.

[Barry]

i would say getting the right gauge of wire far outweighs any differences between occ ofc or just ordinary good quailty copper imo alan.

I agree.

I make most of my cables using no-nonsense cable available off the drum from manufacturers supplying the microwave, RF and aerospace industries and broadcast and studio installations. Most of these use plain OFC, some silver plated OFC. None use OCC copper.

If you go into the theory, the contribution to resistive losses caused by electron-crystal boundary collision is only about 15%.

[Ninanina]

It's like speaking Swahili to me to be honest...

I've absolutely no idea about "resistive losses" or "electron-crystal boundary collision"

If the new cable sounds any good I'll let you all know though ;)

[Pigmy Pony]

Can a perfectly ok cable be ruined by what terminations (if any) are used? My Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker wire is just bare at the ends, and I'm considering some terminations.

[Barry]

Can a perfectly ok cable be ruined by what terminations (if any) are used? My Atlas Hyper 3.0 speaker wire is just bare at the ends, and I'm considering some terminations.

Some would say it could. It depends on the design and materials used for the terminations. The secret is to achieve as great a contact surface area possible, rather than worry about whether solid copper, copper, nickel, gold or rhodium-plated brass is used.

[Pigmy Pony]

Do you have any recommendations Barry? My aim isn't improved sound (though that would be nice). Rather it is for convenience.

[Barry]

Not really,

My speakers use 4mm sockets, so I used to use 4mm 'OZ'plugs by Belling & Lee (which were soldered onto the cable), now I use 4mm 'bunch pin' plugs from Maplin (which use two opposing screws to secure the wire to the plug pin, and can be done up tight).

[Pigmy Pony]

Sounds good to me, I'm probably not much cop with a soldering iron anyway. I think Maplins are no more, but perhaps I'll find similar on the 'bay.

[Barry]

Oh - you will find plenty to choose from there, as well as from Amazon.

I would avoid 'named' components from the like of Nakamichi, Chord, Furutech, etc. You will be simply paying for the label.

[Ninanina]

I've received the AudioQuest SureGrip plugs/spades but the cable will be back in stock in about a weeks time

I guess in the meantime I really should make my new power cables, ages ago I received the following, but kinda forgot I had them :doh:

Furutech FP-S022N Alpha Nano-OFC Power Cable:
http://i.imgur.com/C2RJxe5.jpg (https://imgur.com/C2RJxe5)

Furutech FI-11 IEC plugs:
http://i.imgur.com/EabE3ly.jpg (https://imgur.com/EabE3ly)

Silver plated MK Toughplugs:
http://i.imgur.com/JHkMNt4.jpg (https://imgur.com/JHkMNt4)

[ABCaudio]

The Mogami and Van Damme tour/studio stuff seem very well regarded for DIY use, and is in many very decent systems on the forums.

[AJSki2fly]

I've received the AudioQuest SureGrip plugs/spades but the cable will be back in stock in about a weeks time



Hi, did the speaker cable arrive and have you made them up? I am interested in how they sound?

Cheers

Adrian

[Marra]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these cables.

[337alant]

I use 6mm Van Damme Studio grade (blue), sound's excellent to me
http://www.van-damme.com/vandamme_product/van-damme-blue-series-studio-grade-speaker-cable/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Van-Damme-Blue-Series-Studio-Grade-6mm-Speaker-Cable-1-25m-268-565-060/371688584146?epid=1939585898&hash=item568a5db3d2:m:mgxoPByhDJwqjcgqWDi7CnA

Alan

[Gazjam]

Interesting thread.

From personal experience though, not sure I’d agree with heavier gauge speaker cable always being better?
I’ve used all shapes n sizes of speaker cable in my kit over the years, some thick as yer wrist down to DNM at a single solid core strand, and can’t say I’ve ever found a link between cable thickness and sound?

Best sounding speaker cable setup I’ve heard in my system looks like shoelaces, and isn’t even terminated.
https://i.imgur.com/OdjdjEW.jpg
Not exactly thick cable is it?

My speakers are Triwirable (3 sets of binding posts) and run a single length of cable through all terminals.
Compared to shotgunning 2 and 3 lengths of cable, and various speaker jumper options bridging terminals, turns out simplest sounds best.
The cable is tin plated, so no concern of oxidation using bare wire.

The Duelund DCA16GA cable I’m using now ousted a £1K speaker cable and sounds good enough that don’t even think about speaker cable nowadays.
Just mentioning is as an alternative maybe not considered if your interested in DIY speaker cable.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/duelund-dca16ga-tinned-multistrand-copper-wire-cotton-oil-insulated.html

[CageyH]

Interesting thread.

From personal experience though, not sure I’d agree with heavier gauge speaker cable always being better?
I’ve used all shapes n sizes of speaker cable in my kit over the years, some thick as yer wrist down to DNM at a single solid core strand, and can’t say I’ve ever found a link between cable thickness and sound?

Best sounding speaker cable setup I’ve heard in my system looks like shoelaces, and isn’t even terminated.
https://i.imgur.com/OdjdjEW.jpg
Not exactly thick cable is it?

My speakers are Triwirable (3 sets of binding posts) and run a single length of cable through all terminals.
Compared to shotgunning 2 and 3 lengths of cable, and various speaker jumper options bridging terminals, turns out simplest sounds best.
The cable is tin plated, so no concern of oxidation using bare wire.

The Duelund DCA16GA cable I’m using now ousted a £1K speaker cable and sounds good enough that don’t even think about speaker cable nowadays.
Just mentioning is as an alternative maybe not considered if your interested in DIY speaker cable.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/duelund-dca16ga-tinned-multistrand-copper-wire-cotton-oil-insulated.html

Daft question - Does the oil create an issue, or is it dry to the touch?

[Gazjam]

Can I give you a daft answer? :D

Oil isn’t an issue.
Fresh out the packet you can smell it if you stick your nose up to it, and after making a set of cables up your fingers feel a bit oily.

But this is just an initial thing, over time the oil dries out a bit on contact with air...just rubbed my fingers over the cable there...no slime. :)

[Gazjam]

Yeah Mark, good spot.
Its on purpose.

The speakers have had a mod done where he the tweeter is in reverse phase, a known mod for the H2’s

[struth]

was looking at that cable... not too pricy either

[Wakefield Turntables]

Interesting thread.

From personal experience though, not sure I’d agree with heavier gauge speaker cable always being better?
I’ve used all shapes n sizes of speaker cable in my kit over the years, some thick as yer wrist down to DNM at a single solid core strand, and can’t say I’ve ever found a link between cable thickness and sound?

Best sounding speaker cable setup I’ve heard in my system looks like shoelaces, and isn’t even terminated.
https://i.imgur.com/OdjdjEW.jpg
Not exactly thick cable is it?

My speakers are Triwirable (3 sets of binding posts) and run a single length of cable through all terminals.
Compared to shotgunning 2 and 3 lengths of cable, and various speaker jumper options bridging terminals, turns out simplest sounds best.
The cable is tin plated, so no concern of oxidation using bare wire.

The Duelund DCA16GA cable I’m using now ousted a £1K speaker cable and sounds good enough that don’t even think about speaker cable nowadays.
Just mentioning is as an alternative maybe not considered if your interested in DIY speaker cable.
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/duelund-dca16ga-tinned-multistrand-copper-wire-cotton-oil-insulated.html

I've a third system dedicated with Duelund cabling. It sounds great (when my preamp works)!!!!!!

[Ninanina]

Yes Keith no problem, it's this cable:

Black
http://i.imgur.com/ymGIEjG.jpg (https://imgur.com/ymGIEjG)
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hook-up-wires/1877phono-graphene-wiring-cable-occ-copper-silver-262mm-graphene-insulation-o53mm-black-p-14003.html

Red
http://i.imgur.com/Rk9ZvLk.jpg (https://imgur.com/Rk9ZvLk)
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/hook-up-wires/1877phono-graphene-wiring-cable-occ-copper-silver-262mm-graphene-insulation-o53mm-red-p-14004.html

At last have received my cable from audiophonics.fr.. just need some time to make it up...

[Marra]

Looking forward to your thoughts on these.

[Ninanina]

So sorry I've not made them up yet... hopefully I will in next few days...I'll be back to let you know what I think of them...

[Made in 1968]

That whole cable looks to be quite stiff.

[Ninanina]

No it's pretty flexi to be honest Andre

I reckon it'll only take an hour or so to make up.. no soldering needed

[Ninanina]

Gosh I forgot all about this cable.... I really must make this cable up

[Ninanina]

And I also forgot about the mains cable I have... I must get those made up as well...

[sailor]

Hi Barry, thanks for the warm welcome to AOS. Reading your posts on this thread I find I disagree with a few of your points.

@Ninanina: The Furutech cable you mentioned is very good, particularly on preamp and digital components. The IEC plug is OK. Being slightly warm, it suits some components more than others. I can recommend some others if you like. The wall plug you have will let the combination down.

All the British plugs are at a disadvantage with the totally unnecessary built-in fuse. It's the only plug in the world, that I know of, that does this. The top of the line Furutech is the least offensive of the ones I tried. I have 3 of them I intend to sell because I now no longer need them. The system I have devised does not use plugs and is vastly superior and saves a bundle not having to buy a bunch expensive plugs.

When Furukawa stopped production of OCC conductors, Furutech came up with their Alpha version, as good or possibly better. Barry does not appear to appreciate the audio benefits of OCC. Perhaps he has never listened and compared. He also uses Maplin connectors which use gold over brass.

When brass is gold plated it usually is first nickel plated and then the gold is applied. The nickel is used because it results in a nicer looking smooth and shiny finish. Cheap to do and easier to sell. But:

Looking at some of the ratings of IACS (International Annealed Copper Standard) it uses copper as the reference for conductivity.
Silver 105%
Copper 100%
Gold 70%
Brass 28%
Nickel 7%

So yes the type of connector matters. In fact from my experimenting it matters as much, if not more than the actual cable. Your typical inexpensive connector then employs 3 dissimilar metals, one of which has an IACS of 7% Not good. :scratch:

The best value banana or spade I have worked with are from Furez. Pure unplated copper which in my system are noticeably better than anything with brass, which sounds 'brassy'

Better still, if possible, is no connector like the gentleman below uses.

@Gazjam,I like your choice of speaker cable. I am using the Duelund 12AWG which replaced hosepipe size 9AWG Harmonic Technology.

Looking at the speaker terminals you have, I notice that the clamping screw has run out of thread with the thin 16AWG. preventing you from fully tightening them. May I suggest getting some small copper washers to insert between the end of the thread and the cable. Use more than one washer per terminal if necessary. The washer will also protect the cable from being graunched by the clamping. Tighten every few days for a month to allow for copper creep.

I may be wrong but your terminals appear to be gold plated brass. If you have some time on your hands:eyebrows: you might consider replacing them with inexpensive screw down connectors like Richard Vandersteen uses on all his speakers.

@Barry, some speakers are designed for amplifiers that have low damping factors like the majority of valve amps have and can sound thin when mated to SS amps with high damping. In this case a little resistance in the cable can improve the balance of sound.

[The Black Adder]

I use 6mm Van Damme Studio grade (blue), sound's excellent to me
http://www.van-damme.com/vandamme_product/van-damme-blue-series-studio-grade-speaker-cable/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Van-Damme-Blue-Series-Studio-Grade-6mm-Speaker-Cable-1-25m-268-565-060/371688584146?epid=1939585898&hash=item568a5db3d2:m:mgxoPByhDJwqjcgqWDi7CnA

Alan

+1

I run 7.5m 4mm Van-Damme Black in shotgun per speaker (two cable runs per speaker) - I can't think how Duelund or anything else could better it but one day I'll have to give it a go... I suppose.

[Ninanina]

Hi Charles
I was thinking that Furutech FI-11 IEC would be ok but also thought the Silver plated MK plug may ket the side down a bit so if you have any suggestions I'd appreciate it, which Furutech ones do you have?

[Gazjam]

The Duelund speaker cable is the best I’ve heard in my system, and I’ve tried a lot.
An £8 quid/m Duelund cable bettered a £1000 American high end cable because, well, it sounded better.

Worth a punt, some report a synergy balance issue so may be system dependant, I can attest that I’ve tried it with two different amps (one valve one SS) and two very different speakers andthe Duelund came out best in both.

[Covenant]

Got to say the Dueland didnt do it for me. It sounded dull and lacked sparkle. On another site someone pointed out that the tin applied to the wire is less conductive than the copper beneath. I dont know if thats true but it makes sense with my results, my speakers are pure silver wired internally. Glad to go back to my old Fisual cables.

[Gazjam]

Just goes to show why you can’t make assumptions about kit without hearing it in your own system first, always about system synergy.

Do you still have the Duelund cable Jerry?
Was it the 16 gauge you had?

[Covenant]

Sold the wire to Ali Tait for a third of what I paid Gaz. Not bothered about it though, I have not made many mistakes and there are not many opportunities to test cables from a specialist outlet in your own home. Wouldnt recommend it for speakers with ribbon tweeters or electrostatics.
Sorry to muscle in on the thread.

[Gazjam]

Ah,
know Ali quite likes it with his OB speakers Jerry, didn’t know he had your cable.
Just thinking to make up a couple of interconnects with it, supposed to work better as that than speaker cable from what I’ve read online.

Think Hifi collective is still shipping, might get some.

Cheers Jerry, hope you ‘n yours are keeping safe in the craziness.

[Covenant]

Gaz,
Sent you a PM.

[sailor]

Hi Ninanina,

I have the plugs boxed and stashed somewhere. When I find them I will post some pics if I can figure out how to do it. Also have a Furutech twin wall socket which is easy to find, it's still mounted in the wall so all I have to do is find the wall :)

Will also provide you with a link to some really good IEC connectors. Cheaper and better than the Furutech FI-11 and I am a big Furutech fan. Stay tuned.

[Ninanina]

Hi Ninanina,

I have the plugs boxed and stashed somewhere. When I find them I will post some pics if I can figure out how to do it. Also have a Furutech twin wall socket which is easy to find, it's still mounted in the wall so all I have to do is find the wall :)

Will also provide you with a link to some really good IEC connectors. Cheaper and better than the Furutech FI-11 and I am a big Furutech fan. Stay tuned.

Super thanks Charles...

[Firebottle]

Come on Bev when are you going to finish these speaker leads and be blown away, I can't wait any longer for satisfaction (ooh ehrr).

[Ninanina]

Come on Bev when are you going to finish these speaker leads and be blown away, I can't wait any longer for satisfaction (ooh ehrr).

I keep forgetting about it Alan... I'll get round to it soon'ish and let you know

[goraman]

I keep forgetting about it Alan... I'll get round to it soon'ish and let you know

Just get it done!

[Ninanina]

I've got a head like a sieve :doh: :eek:

[losepete]

I do not use any plugs on speaker cables at all - the speakers have gold plated binding posts and so does the power amplifier so I see no need to add any extra metal anywhere.

Just my thought...