Any opinions on the Hana ML cartridge?

[worrasf]

Santa is going to fund a new cartridge and I am contemplating one of these.
Online reviews seem universally positive but reading them I wonder whether it might be just a tad too "big and bold" and the Hana SL a more "refined" choice.

FWIW I very much like the presentation of the AT-33PTG/II although it can be a bit polite on occasion.

It will be fed into a Tom Evans Microgroove plus and Croft 25RSLS line stage on a Jelco TK 850s.

I'd welcome comments from anyone who has experienced this cartridge as there is no way I'll be able to get to listen to one prior to purchase.

Happy Christmas and a safe and peaceful New Year to all on AoS

Steve

[JohnG]

I have a Hana SL that is now stored as a back up cartridge along side a few others.
I sat tight for approx, one year from the main UK talk about it, and eventually purchased one for £400 with about 100 hours on it as a Demo.
There may be in the near future, a option on the ML to be purchased from a similar method.
You will be sure to get much, if not all your money returned, if it does not suit your ears.

[oldius]

For me, Hana is a brand that suddenly got a lot of attention within the community and it spread quickly. I have heard several and just think they're okay but better can be had from AT and Denon.

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[worrasf]

. I have heard several and just think they're okay but better can be had from AT and Denon.

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Thanks that’s very interesting and helpful. MC wise I have an AT 33PTG/II and a Paradox Pulse Denon 103R so your comments are relevant to me.
Steve


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[Idlewithnodrive]

Thanks that’s very interesting and helpful. MC wise I have an AT 33PTG/II and a Paradox Pulse Denon 103R so your comments are relevant to me.
Steve


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Hi Steve,

I replaced my AT 33PTG/II with a Hana SL and prefer the Hana in every area. It is similar sounding, just a bit more dynamic, without losing any of its finesse.

[Idlewithnodrive]

Double post :o

[worrasf]

Hi Steve,

I replaced my AT 33PTG/II with a Hana SL and prefer the Hana in every area. It is similar sounding, just a bit more dynamic, without losing any of its finesse.

Thank you Mike. Don't suppose you got to hear the Hana ML alongside your SL did you?

[Idlewithnodrive]

Thank you Mike. Don't suppose you got to hear the Hana ML alongside your SL did you?

I'm afraid I didn't Steve, although I have heard the ML a few times (not in my system though, so not an ideal comparison) and thought it was very good (better ?). My friends that have traded up from the SL to the ML have been pleased.

[worrasf]

I'm afraid I didn't Steve, although I have heard the ML a few times (not in my system though, so not an ideal comparison) and thought it was very good (better ?). My friends that have traded up from the SL to the ML have been pleased.
Thanks very much Mike - that's really helpful.

[Intenso]

I replaced an Ortofon Quintet Bronze with a Hana ML a while back and it was a big step up in my system...

[Clive197]

2 weeks ago I received an addition to my cartridge collection in the form of the pre mentioned Hana ML. I’m hugely impressed with it and after reading numerous reviews on it which I wholeheartedly agree with. 1 reviewer actually stating that this is a £3,000 - £4,000 cartridge for £995!!! I think that statement might be a bit poetic but I get the point, however I do think it betters the Ortofon Cadenza Black (£1850) which I previously owned but have now moved on.
The Hana ML most certainly is up there with the best Japanese cartridges available past and present.

[mikeyb]

I agree, I have one too, it really gives me the sound I'm after and having tried Zu Denon 103, Denon 103R, Kontrapunkt B, Shure 97xe, Ortofon 2m Blue and Black, ADC QLM III, Zyx R100 twice.

This Hana ML isn't going anywhere that's for sure.

[ReggieB]

Anyone compare the ML to the SL?

I have a Hana SL and an AudioTechnica OC9ML/II. Up until my latest phono amp upgrade, the Hana was edging it - that bit sharper and a little more exciting than the AudioTechnica. However, with my latest phono amp (a Audio Detail NV-06) the AudioTechnica is really singing and I'm loving it's sweet sound. At the moment I'm happy with my cartridges, but I'd be interested as to what the upgrade paths will be in the future.

[CageyH]

An AT ART 7 or 9?

Cartridges are a personal choice and very system dependent.
That is why I find it difficult to make a recommendation, and offer just a suggestion.

I had a Hana SL, and found it OK in my system. Will the ML suit me better? I have no idea.

[Clive197]

If you notice my signature, I have currently both the SL and ML. The ML is a worthwhile improvement with a smoother and more detailed top end that to my ears makes for a much nicer listen.
I am thinking of moving the SL on as I also run a AT OC9XSH having sold my AT PTG/III.

[ReggieB]

Thank you Clive. Something for my wishlist then :)

[Mike Reed]

Quite interested in this bargain basement 'high end' cart. Haven't heard or read of a downbeat word for Hana generally. What distinguishes the SL from the ML in, e.g., compliance, VTF, (internal) impedance, stylus, cantilever etc.?

[graham67]

Hi Rob, if you like the OC 9 ML 2, a safe upgrade is the Art 9.
Having heard both carts on the same deck, it is obvious they are from the same family. But the Art 9 has deeper bass while retaining the extended top end of the OC 9 ML. Art 9 is also quieter, tames the occasional edginess of the oc9ml while keeping the speed.
I haven't heard it, but the new oc9xsl would also be worth investigating. If you bought an official OC 9 you may be entitled to a 40% discount using the trade-in scheme (or 30% on an art9).

[Lurch]

Quite interested in this bargain basement 'high end' cart. Haven't heard or read of a downbeat word for Hana generally. What distinguishes the SL from the ML in, e.g., compliance, VTF, (internal) impedance, stylus, cantilever etc.?

Main differences are Microline as opposed to Shibata stylus hence the M in front of the L. And the ML working optimally with the more common 100 Ohm of most non-adjustable phonostages against the 400+ Ohms for the SL. VTF/VTA are the same for both carts.

[RobbieGong]

Both are excellent, quality stylus profiles.

I've had a lot of experience of Shibata's, courtesy of Ortofon 2M Black, Quintet Black and Cadenza Black and once set up carefully and properly they are excellent.

Re: The Microline (ML), which I note is the more expensive of the two: Quote from online -

The Micro-Ridge (or Microline) stylus is a very advanced, computer designed tip shape that comes very close to the shape of a cutting stylus used to produce original master discs. They are difficult to manufacture, and very expensive, but when aligned correctly are capable of the best high-frequency performance with extended record and stylus life. Such performance is made possible by the advanced multilevel “ridge” shape of a MicroLine tip.

The Fritz Gyger S profile on my re-tipped Cadenza Black is my first experience of a profile that is cut to mimic the cutting disc, which means its shape/tip goes in very deep and extracts loads of info.

I didn't think it got more detailed than a Shibata but there is definitely even more finite info retrieved with these 'cut to mimic' the cutting head type profiles, such as the ML-Microline/Micro-ridge, FGS and Ortofon Replicants, which is fab.

If you've got the extra for the ML, I'd say go for it. If not the SL-Shibata will still be a great performer anyway :)

[CageyH]

I have always preferred the micro line stylus to a Shibata. This is the reason why the ML is on my shortlist for my next cartridge.

[Mike Reed]

John (Lurch) and Robbie Gong. Thanks for your informative replies, esp. as you both agree ! :lol: Didn't know that as am only used to Koetsus, Transfig's, Lyras and Benzes and have never bothered with tip profile. Useful info ! Actually looking for a Koetsu type (sounding) cart. at a much lower price level and not requiring massy arms. The Hana would seem to meet those criteria, at least in theory, and the ML appears to have the edge (arms are 12" PU7 and 12" Ace Anna, both around 14g)

[oldius]

I have been underwhelmed when hearing Hana cartridges. It feels a little bit like the Emperor's new clothes - a new boutique maker on the block, praised to high heaven when there are better products available already.

[mikeyb]

I have been underwhelmed when hearing Hana cartridges. It feels a little bit like the Emperor's new clothes - a new boutiques maker on the block, praised to high heaven when there are better products available already.Considering the list of carts I've owned I'd say you didn't hear the Hana at it's best OR you just don't like how it sounds, but then again it's no doubt system and preference dependant.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi you lot, have a look at this. He's very excitable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oowfH1DllXI

[hifi_dave]

a new boutiques maker on the block.

The company making Hana is Excel and they have been making cartridges for many other companies since 1970. Excel decided to make their own range and that is Hana. Excellent value because they actually make them.

[CageyH]

Hi you lot, have a look at this. He's very excitable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oowfH1DllXI

That is an EL?

[Mike Reed]

Hi you lot, have a look at this. He's very excitable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oowfH1DllXI

Pity the video isn't up to the quality of the cart's he's presumably demonstrating but, yes, he's the epitome of enthusiasm !

[oldius]

I stand corrected then, Dave, thanks for the information. Mind you, I still have a preference for AT and Denon.

[hifi_dave]

I stand corrected then, Dave, thanks for the information. Mind you, I still have a preference for AT and Denon.

That's what makes the world go round.

Excel Corp have been making cartridges for many other companies over the years and I believe they also make MC step-ups and accessories.

[ReggieB]

Hi Rob, if you like the OC 9 ML 2, a safe upgrade is the Art 9.

Thank you Graham. At the moment the OC 9 is singing beautifully in my system so I'll be sticking with that for a while. Art 9 can sit on the wish list for a year or two I think. Thanks for the discount information too. That's useful to know.

[Vrajbasi]

That's what makes the world go round.

Excel Corp have been making cartridges for many other companies over the years and I believe they also make MC step-ups and accessories.

They made the transfiguration cartridges amongst many many high end offerings, also part build some lyras, air tights etc. The two brands that are there own are Hannah and the High end Etsuro Brand which are truly remarkable beasts.

Here is an interesting Vid on excel featuring the master himself Okada San

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx-BkVnWQgU&t=374s

[hifi_dave]

Thanks for that.

How do they do all that in a 'shed' ?

[Vrajbasi]

Thanks for that.

How do they do all that in a 'shed' ?

Very resourceful I presume, I use the top of the line Etsuro Gold while crazily priced it is the finest cartridge I have heard so far, they certainly no what they are doing. The Etsuro and Hannah lines have certainly boosted there profile I am sure this has had a knock off affect on OEM work.

[Mike Reed]

They made the transfiguration cartridges]

Surely not the upper ones; maybe the Aria and similar but Phoenix through Proteus was hand-made by Transfig., a.f.a.I k.

[Vrajbasi]

Surely not the upper ones; maybe the Aria and similar but Phoenix through Proteus was hand-made by Transfig., a.f.a.I k.

No all were made by excel the last offering was the Proteus diamond

[Mike Reed]

No all were made by Excel; the last offering was the Proteus Diamond

Gosh! Didn't know of this model; I've just got the Proteus, which is lovely. If their cart's were made o.e.m., I wonder why Transfig. folded. The predecessor of the Proteus (name escapes me) stopped production on the death of the founder because only HE could make them, and later recommenced with the Proteus.

You can see why I'm confused, as this is the info. I was given by the dealer who sold it to me, among others.

[Vrajbasi]

From what I understand, the family own the name and they do not wish to continue with having the bodies made and the whole brand management etc. The bodies were supplied by transfiguration etc. There are only a handful of Japanese manufacturers out there, majority are manufactured by companies who supply OEM to there specifications.

To my ears excel sounds own Etsuro brand is way ahead of transfiguration in any case and many transfiguration owners have gone this route.

[hifi_dave]

Gosh! Didn't know of this model; I've just got the Proteus, which is lovely. If their cart's were made o.e.m., I wonder why Transfig. folded. The predecessor of the Proteus (name escapes me) stopped production on the death of the founder because only HE could make them, and later recommenced with the Proteus.

You can see why I'm confused, as this is the info. I was given by the dealer who sold it to me, among others.

Typical high-end MC 'myth'. Only the ancient designer is able to craft that particular cartridge.

[Mike Reed]

Typical high-end MC 'myth'. Only the ancient designer is able to craft that particular cartridge.

This is presumably a Proteus with diamond cantilever, not that I've heard of one (unlike the Koetsus which have been going for some time). By 'myth', d'you mean it didn't exist or was a very rare bespoke item, Dave?

[hifi_dave]

This is presumably a Proteus with diamond cantilever, not that I've heard of one (unlike the Koetsus which have been going for some time). By 'myth', d'you mean it didn't exist or was a very rare bespoke item, Dave?

The high-end, hand built MC myth that only one ancient artisan could build the cartridge. Some are but some are built OEM as illustrated.

[Vrajbasi]

I suppose even launching a OEM cartridge takes a lot of work financially getting prototypes made plus I am sure there is a minimum quantity etc, and deciding on certain sound characteristics is not so easy. So many turntable manufacturers have cartridges in there portofolio such as Kuzma and Vertre and I understand Michell have now launched a whole new line up all of those would have been made by OEM manufacturers. I suppose manufacturers such VDH, MY SONIC LABS (they do oem work for air tight and a few others) MIYAJIMA, ORTOFON, DYNAVECTOR ETC are examples of the ones who make there own cartridges. Dynavector doe oem for a couple of well know brands I am told.

I have been told even then some manufacturers such a Lyra get oem manufacturers to wind their coils, this makes perfect sense as these guys are geared up for mass volume. Koetsu is another example of a OEM manufactured cartidge I have been told the old story that Sugano junior is sitting there winding coils etc is a myth but have been told that the sugano family listen to there designs closely to achieve what they are looking for. Does it really matter who makes what too consumer one has to just be careful to choose the right one. Sumiko and Kuzma are both examples of the work of excel there is no doubt in one way or the other excel tops them all for doing oem work evern it is just doing coil winding.