Uptone audio Etherregen review

[Discopants]

This is a review of a network switch that was launched in November by US company Uptone audio who have linear power supplies and USB regen and ISO regen in their stable.

Ive been keenly following the development threads on this product since early summer and after reading the first flush of user impressions since the launch I pulled the trigger. Cost was around £660 from the UK distributor.

So the design principles of this switch are meant to address current leakage from the ethernet sources that can travel via your ethernet cables onto your DAC circuits and create havoc as noise within those circuits. There is also a very low phase noise clock within the switch which also hells reduce noise to the DAC and minimise jitter. Im not going to expand too much on the technicalities beyond that but i will point folks to Audiophile Style if they want to know more.

There are 4 ethernet ports on one side and just one on the other. There is an option to connect to a reference clock a ground shunted SMPS is provided. There is one optical sfp port.

So this diminutive little switch arrived on Friday, i was on a work do and got home at 9 to put the switch in the system and have a listen. I played a couple of familiar tracks before putting the switch in to “calibrate” my drunken ears [emoji3].

My system consists of an Apple TV 4th gen and a Lyngdorf TDAI3400 power DAC. I stream spotify and watch amazon and netflix and terrestrial tv via the internet.

First off i put the ethernet from my in the wall power network and my apple tv into the 4 ported A side and my 3400 on the B side. I fired up spotify and was immediately treated to a very different sound to what I was used to. I could hear far more details , the volume appeared to go up 1db, bass was very solid, the top end opened up and the soundstage increased significantly. The music appeared to be far more natural and at ease. I listened to a couple of albums on spotify 320 kbps and thought this was very promising.

The next morning I woke up at 6 and crept downstairs for another album played low, wow it sounded sweet. Spotify stayed on all day until about 4 when my daughter wanted to watch TV. I stuck a couple of youtube tracks on but although the sound was better I was disappointed that its hadn’t had the same leap as spotify.

The next morning I was playing through my favourites with a big smile on my face , then switched. to youtube again as I wanted to fiddle with the set up. Now switching to my one ethernet in on the B side and apple tv and tdai 3400 sharing the A side, i gave apple tv another whirl..... wow big jump in SQ , massive sound stage, very solid bass amazing textures on sounds particularly percussion, lovely strings too, loads more detail and inky black background. I switched back to spotify and i though i lost a little of the quality but was worth it for such a great step up from both my sources.

Better picture on TV too.

Will try to post pictures tomorrow.

If you are serious about a digital front end then you need one of these or the purportedly better sounding SoTM switch ( but you need the pimped up and loaded version.

Everything is important in digital , but wow a switch that is capable of delivering large uptick in SQ, who’d of thunk ?


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[Stratmangler]

First off i put the ethernet from my in the wall power network
Proper ethernet would be better.
The powerline stuff modulates shite onto the mains and it affects everything.
It's better to not put the shite there in the first place.

[Discopants]

Proper ethernet would be better.
The powerline stuff modulates shite onto the mains and it affects everything.
It's better to not put the shite there in the first place.

Ive ran a 20m cat 6 cable across the floor to check that out before and I could not hear any significant difference than the through the power network. I would have considered doing a proper retro wiring job if it was better. Ive heard other folks say this too though so I don’t doubt there could be something in it.

What I did get some improvement from was running an ethernet transformer cat 5e that was designed for using in flame proof areas at work straight out of the power socket. That gave me an increase in soundstage but nothing as dramatic as this switch now.

Ive been off today playing the system all day. With everyone out I cranked it right up to -5dB ( where I have a software stop as my speakers are only rated to 50w and my amp hits about 150w into their 10 ohms). I watched Fury and played a you tube recording of Toccata and fugue. Fury sounded incredible in 2.1 channel , the Bach piece was awesome too like I was in that big old church. Whatever the mains puts on the ethernet this switch shunts it all off again, at least in my system.


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[Stratmangler]

20m for a patch lead is out of spec. The length of it is the issue.
Patch leads are made with stranded cable, and they have higher impedance than solid core installation cable.
Patch leads should be short, under 5m.
Installation spec for Cat 6 is 100m, which would comprise 90m installation cable, and 10m patch leads shared between either end.
You'd have been better off using 18m installation cable, and a couple of 1m patch leads, 1 for each end.

I accept that it's sad that I know this stuff, but it's how I make my living :)

I'm pleased that your extremely expensive switch works for you.

[Alp]

A week or so ago, I wanted to do an A-B comparison with my RPI4/USB and RPI/DigiOne (Coax) so I dug out a NETGEAR GS305 switch I had lying around, connected the cable from my wifi extender (which had been going top one RPI) to the input and then a couple of short Cat 6 cables to the RPIs. When I had finished comparing them, I went back to the directly wired RPI4/USB and it was rather flat and lifeless in comparison. Following a hunch, I put the switch back an place and lo and behold it was lively and dynamics again. Needless to says its staying there. It takes a 5V DC input so I might try it with a battery next...

Like Ethernet over the mains, I expect my wifi is also rather noisy (even if its a 140Mbps link) and I am guessing that the switch is doing something similar to the Ethergen (but for £24 instead of £600+). So, if you are interested in going down that path, you might want to try such a switch first...

[Getgaff]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/#post-279746

For those interested in how this device measures

[Discopants]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/#post-279746

For those interested in how this device measures

Don’t let that review put you off trying this switch , Amir seems to have a massive axe to grind with Uptone audio the developer. He claims to have listened to the switch Its not surprising he could not hear anything as he has been ranting on for a month that it wont and cant work and he paired it up with a DAC that he is totally unfamiliar with ( another offering sent for him to test with his $25000 rig). I’d be surprised if he listened to more than 2 tracks and certainly not critically.

Amir also measured my amp the Lyngdorf TDAI3400 and declared that to be shit too, based on his measurements but then he actually listened to it for a week and said it was excellent.

Uptone has been very clear and upfront about this product right through development. They have explained that the switch development is based on theoretical work by the lead designer John Swenson. Prototypes were tested by ear and showed sound improvements , John states that there are no tools currently available to demonstrate how the switch actually cleans up the leakage. He is trying to build a device to actually prove the theory with measurements.

I bought this switch after seeing the first round of reviews from actual users, knowing i could return for a full refund within 30 days.

In my system, which is only used to stream media the switch delivers significant and immediately noticeable improvements. If anyone is in east Kent they are welcome to a demonstration vs my old Cisco switch. I would say in my system the switch was the equivalent of stepping up a tier in major component quality.

Its possible that Im getting atypical gains to the average user so YMMV.




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[Macca]

Don’t let that review put you off trying this switch , Amir seems to have a massive axe to grind with Uptone audio the developer. He claims to have listened to the switch Its not surprising he could not hear anything as he has been ranting on for a month that it wont and cant work and he paired it up with a DAC that he is totally unfamiliar with ( another offering sent for him to test with his $25000 rig). I’d be surprised if he listened to more than 2 tracks and certainly not critically.



I don't think that is fair. The measurements showed it did nothing and theory says it can do nothing and the proof of it doing something that is currently unmeasurable has not (yet) been presented. And the listening test was done blind. I don't know but I suspect that if he had been able to pick it out on the blind test he would have said so as it would indicate that there is a known unknown as it were.

He won't have listened to tracks either, he'll have swapped quickly between short segments, this being proven to be the best way to spot any differences.

As you say there's 30 days return so if someone trys one and think it does make an improvement, and £650 worth of an improvement, then it's money well spent.

[Discopants]

https://youtu.be/Io4SDi5hLxs


Hans Beekhuzen has now reviewed the etherREGEN switch and likes it very much, in fact its now staying in his reference system.

4 months after launch and only 2 customers posting on the listening impressions thread who don’t like the switch in their system. One of them heard no difference in their system and took it out early. The other heard significant changes many of which for the better but after break in is now left with brittle treble which they cant live with but they are keeping the switch and trying to work out the source of the problem.

Im still delighted with mine [emoji2]


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[Discopants]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

The above link is a white paper published from the chief design engineer about how the switch works and the 2 of the issues its designed to address.

Still no definitive measurements to support the theory as yet, although I hope they can eventually follow up with this.





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[Landloper]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-audio-etherregen-switch-review.10232/#post-279746

For those interested in how this device measures

Good call.

[doodoos]

Are these switches irrelevant if using Wi-Fi from the router to the streamer from which I listen to Qobuz?

[NRG]

Yes

[Filterlab]

Cheaper to use Wi-Fi then certainly. I used to cable network everything, but transmission over Wi-Fi is so quick and stable these days, particularly with 802.11ac, that I just can’t be bothered. Why add a further interference source that then has to be remedied at great expense?

[Discopants]

Which is best wifi or ethernet ? Answer is it depends , you really have to try both. My system sounded better with ethernet off the bat, and improved with this switch.

Once hardwired (ethernet)in my DAC the software disables wifi processing components.

This article has some additional info into the factors at play.

https://darko.audio/2018/08/ethernet-or-wifi-which-is-better-for-high-end-audio-streaming/


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[Mr. C]

:eek: arh yes the agenda boy amir a source of great amusement using staunch measurement perspectives (nothing wrong with this approach, I use it myself, BUT it is how you interpret the data and present that is the key) with a group of hard core fan boys ready to hang off his every word and savage anyone who dares question the master of data acquisition :rolleyes:

First up I have no connection nor do I sell the products or with either the designer J Swanson have had been involved in a few on line threads that he has contributed to and feel some of his ideas are a bit left field shall we say.

However he is a sound electronics engineer and most of his principles are correct same for us all :eyebrows:

Ok lets talk about measuring said device, first up what is its claim and what possible effect can it have on the end result if any?

It purpose is to take the incoming Ethernet data stream and using various software and hardware methods 'iron out' / re-clock and condition the incoming data stream before sending it out 'freshly cleaned'.

So what would we genuinely need to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that this particular devices actual performs to its claimed purpose?

Very simple a protocol analysis device specifically tailored to measure all aspects of Ethernet traffic parameters they are a few devices on the market that can do this and a Audio precision AP555x is NOT one of them (It is a mighty fine device for many audio measurement applications both analogue and digital, I have a Rohde & Schwarz equivalent device called a UPV the same one Noel @ Hifi World uses)

However for looking at differences between Ethernet data streams you would need a more suitable piece of equipment :D

They are a few different Ethernet protocol standards to look at as well.

For example a quality high bandwidth oscilloscope, with a large sample rate and deep memory acquisition ability and the software to interpret the results, for capturing before and after signals, there are many quality test equipment manufacturers that provide such scopes.

You could also use a network analyzer as well or a dedicated specific Ethernet protocol analyzer to.

We use a Lecroy Wavepro HD scope it has the ability to interrogate Ethernet signals to a very high standard and record the results.

Ethernet testing equipment (https://teledynelecroy.com/oscilloscope/wavepro-hd-oscilloscope)

Applications required for this task (https://teledynelecroy.com/options/productseries.aspx?mseries=462&groupid=140)

So to actually measure said parameter is not difficult, this will deliver quantifiable results of any measurable variations between incoming and outgoing data transmission lines.

So lets take a step back into the real world and perform these specific tests specifically for purpose in hand.

Also I will make the observation that sometimes you can measure all you want, yet still find audible differences that you can not seem to find even with quality equipment, YET these are clearly audible WITHOUT Psychoacoustic influences, so you are then faced with this conundrum 'If you have looked at all possible logical probabilities and have found nothing, then you have to start looking at the illogical' So it could be a case of what do I really need to look at?

Now the asr hard core zealots will defend their position with BUT you can measure upstream differences with an audio analyzer, this is also true (I do this almost daily when designing new audio products along with many other parameters which are no audio analyzer related) however you need to examine the WHOLE picture not just selected areas of interest before declaring the device total hogwash.

Yes I have looked at the above device mentioned and I can measure repeatable differences with these devices and when they have been improved with various power supplies and and external 10M clock added also

I am fortunate enough to be able to check audio (and non audio) equipment to a very high standard and when something piques my interest I will put my hand in my pocket and purchase one then see if it actually makes any difference at all.

The device manufacturer would improve their standing with the hard core measurement community squad 'if its not within 0.0000001% of a gnat's chuff then its shite mate'.

They could actually publish some independent (Non asr acquired data lol) Ethernet standard testing before and after figures? just my 2p worth.

Mr.C

[Macca]

The ASR methodology is to measure the output of the DAC, put the Ethergen into the system, and then measure the output of the DAC again to see if the output had changed with the Ethergen doing its thing. There was no change in the output from the DAC, so the conclusion was that, whatever it may be doing upstream, it doesn't make any difference to the signal exiting the DAC and will therefore have no impact on sound quality.

This is all explained in the review and is expanded on in the subsequent thread.

Seems perfectly logical to me.

[Mr. C]

Seems perfectly logical to me.

As it would to the vast majority of the individuals reading the piece. Personally I have not set this test up in the lab, but have no issue in doing so.

This then leads us to if nothing is seen in the audio band meas parameters (20Hz-20Khz) then what else could be happening or it can't surely?

Like I mentioned before I do not sell them or have anything to do with the manufacturer Martin, so I like to find out for myself as to; does it do what it claims.
Being in a very fortunate position I can do this with many products and genuinely seek answers with the equipment we have available to us.

Now the company has sold many of the units worldwide, and has many happy customers so either they are all placebo effect generating Psychoacoustic illusions with gay abandonment which can fool a wide age range and various groups without any issues what so ever. Conversely its a big con trick by the Lucifer's hordes of snake oil producing demons from the lower planes of the abyss to lever cash from unsuspecting audiofools. Or just maybe it does produce differences they enjoy.

All I can report is this Martin I can accurately and repeatably measure differences between the incoming and outgoing Ethernet data streams which a Regen unit being measured. Now whether this equates to improved SQ only that individual listener can decide for themselves.

Though I will mention this, what happens outside the audio-band and well above may well effect what happens inside that audio band reproduction.

Are they any more users of this device this would like contribute their thoughts on what effect or not it has in their personal systems, or will someone decide they are all barking mad and are wasting their hard earned funds on a pointless device of dubious origin?

Age old arguments or a fresh debate?

[Macca]

I don't dismiss entirely the possibility that 'something else is happening' but without any supporting evidence for that, and with the evidence of the ASR test on the table, so to speak, then the most likely explanation is the psycho-acoustical one. The number of people reporting improvements does not render that invalid as a cause.

if you have one of the devices to hand maybe you could repeat the ASR test and see if you get the same result?

[Discopants]

Psychoacoustics are just a form of confirmation bias. Bias can be very strong but they work both ways. If you think a device is foo you are setting your mind to expect no change and pre-loading your perceptions.

Yes I was very hopeful of hearing improvements from this device but Ive also tried many other products from digital cables, grounding boxes and isolation products also hopeful and I’ve not been convinced that they make improvements of any significance.

This was a significant step up in SQ out of the box, its significantly better again with a linear power supply with DIY oyaide power cord, boutique fuse and isolated from vibrations (this second significant improvement is in combination of all those elements).

Some users who tried it are not convinced its making a difference in their systems but they are a very small minority and they just returned the unit for a refund (30 days).


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[Macca]

The thing about psychological bias is that it is unconscious. Just because you think it is going to do nothing doesn't mean you are pre-disposed to hear nothing. Thinking it will do nothing is conscious bias, not the same thing.

So there's plenty of reports saying 'I don't except to hear any difference but I was shocked.'

Likewise when you try something full of expectation for the improvements it is going to bring and it actually sounds worse to you. Hoping/expecting it to sound good didn't change a thing.

You can't consciously decide what impression to have. Otherwise we would all just use cheap Amstrad midi-systems and be well happy.

[Discopants]

Conscious bias are typically stronger than unconscious ones.

Measurements have limitations. Theres all sorts of stuff you cant measure.


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[Mr. C]

Pretty much sums ups the situation well DP, whether the this device, cables, supports or mains devices back to the age old bias's on either side.
However your thoughts sum up a great many users feelings even those that do not post on the US forum AS.

Every part of the incoming data Ethernet data stream to the actual playback unit is important imho