Computer related advice needed

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Guys

I need a wee bit of advice on getting the right router for Virgin broadband.

I want a wired one or one with wired facility for hooking another PC upstairs (yes I would rather use a cable) and I also need it to be capable of taking an audio stream of 24 bit 192 as well. I will be hooking this up to a server type item in for review. Can you also suggest a suitable RJ45 cable (are there differences in quality)? 5m and 10m

If they can be got of Ebay all the better.

There you go a computer audio typed question from the Dalek Supreme :eek::doh:



Regards D S D L

[Butuz]

If you have to buy of ebay (yuk) - do a search for "cat5e" and you will have hundreds of cables. They're probably all good, cat5e cable is rated to over 100 metres @ 1000Megabit's per second (CD is 1.4Megabits per second) before any significant signal loss occurs so for a 5 or 10 metre cable pretty much anything will do as long as it doesn't fall apart in your hands.

As for your router - are you sure you want to go with virgin broadband? I've been with loads of broadband suppliers including virgin and am now ith BT Broadband and am finally happy!!! The BT Home hub is an excellent ADSL router with 4 port switch built in so you can physically connect at least 4 PC's directly to the router, as well as the wireless.

Mind you you'll find plenty of people who will say BT are crap too - pretty much everyone in the world has their own favourite broadband supplier.

Either way have fun!!!

Butuz

[Codifus]

Hi Guys

I need a wee bit of advice on getting the right router for Virgin broadband.

I want a wired one or one with wired facility for hooking another PC upstairs (yes I would rather use a cable) and I also need it to be capable of taking an audio stream of 24 bit 192 as well. I will be hooking this up to a server type item in for review. Can you also suggest a suitable RJ45 cable (are there differences in quality)? 5m and 10m

If they can be got of Ebay all the better.

There you go a computer audio typed question from the Dalek Supreme :eek::doh:



Regards D S D L

You should get a router or switch with 1000baset, or gigabit ethernet capability. Make sure the specification of the cables you buy mention cat6 or cat7. cat6 is certified for 1000baset and cat7 is bleeding edge, certified for 10,000 baseT which isn't quite out there yet.

To crunch the numbers, you need ethernet capable of carrying 24 *192000* 2=6 144 000 bits/sec, 6,144Kbits/sec. When you look at the numbers, even old cat5 (100BaseT) will suffice. I suggested better just to future proof your configuration.

My calculation assumes stereo......will it be multi-channel?


CD

[Stratmangler]

Which router are you currently using ?

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I just use the cat5e my local independant computer shop cut to the perfect length for me... And the router talktalk sent me...
I do have plans to get a better router and install some open source firmware I was Reading about the other day... Although I can't find the info at the mo... I'm also intending on getting some higher spec network cable ... But that's mostly as I'm going to be runninging it down the outside of my house!
Basically I shouldn't worry to much!!

[Codifus]

Which router are you currently using ?

That's a good question. If he already has a router, he should be shopping for a switch to add to his network. Of course he can get another router and disable the routing functionality, thereby reducing the 2nd router to a switch as well.

CD

[Spectral Morn]

Hi guys

Information overload :eek:

I don't have any router. I am a Virgin customer and have been for quite some time.

At the present I use the Virgin broadband box connected direct to the PC. I want to introduce a router so I can connect a PC upstairs. I prefer wired to wireless. I also want to hook a cable from the router to a server so I can get album sleeve info and feed 24 bit 192 to the server from the PC (that's the plan anyway) I can't say which server as it is in for review at Adventures In High Fidelity Audio.

If you could put up links to the items on ebay you think will be okay for me that will be easier than me trying to sort out the info you are giving me.


Regards D S D L

[Stratmangler]

Something like this should suit your needs http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Linksys-EtherFast-Cable-DSL-Router-4-Port-Switch-/330442191629?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item4cefe3b30d

Any bog standard Cat5e patch leads will do. You might even find a colour to suit your home decor.
The upstairs link I'd suggest running UTP Cat5e cable with fixed terminated ends (ie. socket at each end).

[Spectral Morn]

Something like this should suit your needs http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Linksys-EtherFast-Cable-DSL-Router-4-Port-Switch-/330442191629?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item4cefe3b30d

Thanks Chris

Doesn't say if its compatible with Virgin. There seems to be a difference as routers are listed as being cable or BT compatible. I can't see anything about this on that listing.

I can ask the seller if no one here knows.

I was also hoping to get away with spending a bit less tight budget and all.

Just read the small print and it says hook up to cable so Virgin should be okay.


Regards D S D L

[Themis]

Hi Neil,

I'm not a specialist of the British broadband providers, but.... they don't provide a router ? :scratch:
You should use the one provided, except if you have a special need.

Now, there's still one thing to consider:
The maximum speed between two computers is delimited by the slowest of one of four things :
- The two network cards
- The switch maximum speed
- The cable type (as codifus explained).

The computers' cards are usually 1Gbit. Recent switches too. You'll need a cat6 cable too.

But beware : most routers have only 100Mbps ports. This is not important for internet, but it's important for communicating between the computers in the network.

Streaming of 24/192 will not be compromised by the lower speed, but any file copy between the computers in a 100M network will be much, much slower than an equivalent 1000M one.

So, I advice you strongly to get a router with 1Gbit ethernet ports OR (still better) a separate 1Mbit switch to connect your computers to. ;)

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Neil,

I'm not a specialist of the British broadband providers, but.... they don't provide a router ? :scratch:
You should use the one provided, except if you have a special need.

Now, there's still one thing to consider:
The maximum speed between two computers is delimited by the slowest of one of four things :
- The two network cards
- The switch maximum speed
- The cable type (as codifus explained).

The computers' cards are usually 1Gbit. Recent switches too. You'll need a cat6 cable too.

But beware : most routers have only 100Mbps ports. This is not important for internet, but it's important for communicating between the computers in the network.

Streaming of 24/192 will not be compromised by the lower speed, but any file copy between the computers in a 100M network will be much, much slower than an equivalent 1000M one.

So, I advice you strongly to get a router with 1Gbit ethernet ports OR (still better) a separate 1Mbit switch to connect your computers to. ;)

Hi Dimitri

I have not got a clue what you have just typed......

I haven't got a router just a Virgin box which has a cable connection in and a single Rj45 out to the PC that's it. I guess if I had wanted to connect a few more PCs up at the time they might have supplied a router but at the time I didn't :doh:


Regards D S D L

[Stratmangler]

Neil

If you look in the specification you'll see that it will cope with both DSL and WAN, and Virgin usually require the WAN connection.
DSL is what BT provide.


Share Your High-Speed Internet Connection Throughout Your Home or Office Think of the EtherFast Cable/DSL Router with 4-Port Switch as a kind of splitter for your Internet connection. Just connect your DSL or Cable Modem to the Router, and all the computers in your household can share the Internet -- all at the same time. The built-in 4-port switch lets you attach four local PCs directly, or daisy-chain out to more hubs and switches as your network grows. Once your computers are connected to the Internet through the Router, they can communicate with each other too, sharing resources and files. All your computers can print on a shared printer connected anywhere in the house. And you can share all kinds of files between computers -- music, digital pictures, and other documents. Keep all your digital music on one computer, and listen to it anywhere in the house. Organize all of your family's digital pictures in one place, to simplify finding the ones you want, and ease backup to CD-R. Play head-to-head computer games within the household, or against Internet opponents. Utilize extra free space on one computer when another's hard drive starts to fill up.

[Spectral Morn]

Neil

If you look in the specification you'll see that it will cope with both DSL and WAN, and Virgin usually require the WAN connection.
DSL is what BT provide.

Hi Chris

I had a wee look at the section you quoted so saw it would work.

In regard to what Dimitri says what do you think ?


Regards D S D L

[Themis]

Hi Dimitri

I have not got a clue what you have just typed......

I haven't got a router just a Virgin box which has a cable connection in and a single Rj45 out to the PC that's it. I guess if I had wanted to connect a few more PCs up at the time they might have supplied a router but at the time I didn't :doh:


Regards D S D L
Ah ok it's a cable provider, I understand better now.

I don't know the "Virgin box", but, if it has a RJ45 out, then a simple switch should do the job ? :scratch:
What is written on the user guide about the RJ45 out ?

[Spectral Morn]

Ah ok it's a cable provider, I understand better now.

I don't know the "Virgin box", but, if it has a RJ45 out, then a simple switch should do the job ? :scratch:
What is written on the user guide about the RJ45 out ?


Nothing you don't get any paper work with it. The guy comes installs it and throws the empty box away.

That's cable the Virgin way. I guess its a broadband cable modem.

Please forgive my ignorance about all of this :doh::scratch:



Regards D S D L

[Themis]

Don't worry Neil, we'll sort this out. ;)

Can you give me two precisions please :
Does the VBox allows you access the internet or is it just for watching TV ?
What is written next to the RJ45 socket in the back of the box ?

[Spectral Morn]

Don't worry Neil, we'll sort this out. ;)

Can you give me two precisions please :
Does the VBox allows you access the internet or is it just for watching TV ?
What is written next to the RJ45 socket in the back of the box ?

Hi

Just Enet.

No the very small box is just for the internet.

The box says underneath that its an Ambit and the model number is E08C013.00 does that help ?


Regards D S D L

[Themis]

Then you need a Ethernet switch (like http://www.amazon.co.uk/D-Link-DGS-1005D-Environmentally-Non-Blocking-architecture/dp/B00022V2DA/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276550987&sr=1-5) and cables.

You plug your switch to the box and to each computer.

[Stratmangler]

Hi Chris

I had a wee look at the section you quoted so saw it would work.

In regard to what Dimitri says what do you think ?


Regards D S D L

As you've pointed out, several times, you're not a particularly computer/network savvy person, and to quote an old English phrase, Dimitri's answer might as well have been written in Greek(:doh:sorry Dimitri, I just couldn't resist;)).

As a general rule network devices have gained speed, so speccing things up for the current highest speed does make sense.
However, the only places I've encountered that really do require elevated data transfer speeds over network deal with large CAD drawings, and the files are absolutely enormous.
I think that normal Cat5e will probably be fast enough for your requirements.
It will also cope with a Squeezebox or three, should you decide to try one for yourself.

[Spectral Morn]

Then you need a Ethernet switch (like http://www.amazon.co.uk/D-Link-DGS-1005D-Environmentally-Non-Blocking-architecture/dp/B00022V2DA/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276550987&sr=1-5) and cables.

You plug your switch to the box and to each computer.


Thanks Dimitri.

Chris is that going to be okay for a Virgin cable modem ?


Regards D S D L

[dave2010]

If you want or need a really high data rate system then there's probably no alternative to cable, but that might mean drilling holes in walls etc. For lower data rates some of the mains distribution systems are quite good - usually HomePlug at 85 Mbps or the AV versions as 200 Mbps. They are pretty much plug and play, though if you want to play around with configuration you can. You'll still probably need a short ethernet cable at each to link your kit in.

I have several Zyxel units connected together, and they've been working for a few years now. I hear that some others also work OK, though there may be some to avoid. Actually I connected two routers together as they were on a cheap offer. This works but configuration is slightly tricky initially, as you have to fool one of the routers that the other one isn't there so you can set the parameters, but it can be done, even though the suppliers don't recommend it particularly. One router has to be set up as a bridge. Some routers complain a bit if they're not connected to a DSL line. Once I got it working I linked in another router with an additional Zyxel extension plug.

Might be worth checking out, though cable is cheaper if you don't mind doing the wiring.

[Spectral Morn]

If you want or need a really high data rate system then there's probably no alternative to cable, but that might mean drilling holes in walls etc. For lower data rates some of the mains distribution systems are quite good - usually HomePlug at 85 Mbps or the AV versions as 200 Mbps. They are pretty much plug and play, though if you want to play around with configuration you can. You'll still probably need a short ethernet cable at each to link your kit in.

I have several Zyxel units connected together, and they've been working for a few years now. I hear that some others also work OK, though there may be some to avoid. Actually I connected two routers together as they were on a cheap offer. This works but configuration is slightly tricky initially, as you have to fool one of the routers that the other one isn't there so you can set the parameters, but it can be done, even though the suppliers don't recommend it particularly. One router has to be set up as a bridge. Some routers complain a bit if they're not connected to a DSL line. Once I got it working I linked in another router with an additional Zyxel extension plug.

Might be worth checking out, though cable is cheaper if you don't mind doing the wiring.

I can drill a hole in the plaster work cornice just above where the main computer is and feed a cable up to the room above where the other PC is I think a 10m cable is all I need to connect them.

I don't want to add anything to the mains :eek::( Enough crap in there all ready but data transfer etc is a scary thing to my mind.


Regards D S D L

[Stratmangler]

I have two concerns.
The D-Link does not act as a DHCP server, and does not have a firewall.
As far as I know Virgin do not provide either over their WAN service.
You'd need to find out from Virgin whether or not this is the case.

I have friends who use cable - I'll ask them and report back.

[Spectral Morn]

I have two concerns.
The D-Link does not act as a DHCP server, and does not have a firewall.
As far as I know Virgin do not provide either over their WAN service.
You'd need to find out from Virgin whether or not this is the case.

I have friends who use cable - I'll ask them and report back.

Thanks Chris

I appreciate your help and Dimitri's in this matter :)




Regards D S D L

[alfie2902]

Hi Neal,

If you subscribe to virgin broadband now they supply a router free of charge!

If you ring virgin & tell them you need a router they should supply you one as an existing customer free of charge. You may have to be firm with them though!

Check the Virgin page http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/broadband/wireless.html

The router they sent me is a D-Link DIR-615 not sure how good it is, but is working fine for me! Here's a link, someone with more knowledge will be able to tell you if it's good enough for your needs.
http://www.dlink.co.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Product_C&childpagename=DLinkEurope-GB%2FDLProductCarousel&cid=1197319391320&packedargs=locale%3D1195806691854&pagename=DLinkEurope-GB%2FDLWrapper

There's probably better routers but not for free! See how you go mate!

Cheers, alfie.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Alfie


Thank you.

However I don't subscribe to the higher speed (just basic), you have to (thought it might have changed but seems not), to get them for free and I don't want a wireless router anyway.


Regards D S D L

[alfie2902]

Hi Neil,

I believe they're free with the 10mb package which I thought was the entry level package now!

It's got 4 wired connections aswell as wireless so should work as you want it to :)

http://www.freshdeal.com/_oddity_images/deals/usr_484860e377d53.jpg

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Neil,

I believe they're free with the 10mb package which I thought was the entry level package now!

It's got 4 wired connections aswell as wireless so should work as you want it to :)

http://www.freshdeal.com/_oddity_images/deals/usr_484860e377d53.jpg


Okay I will check that out.

Thank you D S D L

[Stratmangler]

Cheers Alfie

That kit is ideal.

Neil

Had an ask, Virgin do not directly host multiple devices on one of their WAN links - you require a local router to support multiple devices/users.
You may well need to inform Virgin of the mac address of the router, so they can enable it on the WAN.
Virgin also do not provide a firewall for their WAN users - the kit Alfie linked to has all that you'd need.

[Spectral Morn]

Cheers Alfie

That kit is ideal.

Neil

Had an ask, Virgin do not directly host multiple devices on one of their WAN links - you require a local router to support multiple devices/users.
You may well need to inform Virgin of the mac address of the router, so they can enable it on the WAN.
Virgin also do not provide a firewall for their WAN users - the kit Alfie linked to has all that you'd need.

Thank you

I will let you all know how I get on.


Regards D S D L

[dave2010]

Some suppliers try to make things difficult - or easy depending on your point of view. Some insist on a router they know about, so that they can do remote management, and some have terms of service which taken literally might prevent you from having a local network to allow multiple machines to connect.

Nowadays though, since it seems almost everyone has wireless and more than one machine, most have given up on trying to restrict the service too much.

I have been reasonably happy with my provider (f2s taken over by Pipex, then taken over by Tiscali, then taken over by TalkTalk - who's next?) and they haven't been restrictive, but I have also had service from others who controlled the kit from their end, and that seems to be quite common these days.

Here are some ethernet switches (cheapish) in case you want to use one of these - http://www.cableuniverse.co.uk/catalog/cable/switcheshubs/?gclid=CP7c-Iu1oaICFY-X2AodvUQ7wQ

[Spectral Morn]

Thank you for your help Dave.


Regards D S D L

[ZebuTheOxen]

If you wish to connect more than one machine to your Virgin connection, you need a router.

The problem with plugging an ethernet switch is that you unnecessarily expose your internet connection to a broadcast domain.
You will be wasting your internet connection on data which is only relevant to what is going on inside your house.

If they provide you with a D-Link DIR-615 router then this is perfectly good for home use.

If you wish to purchase a different model, you should have no problems either way:
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopSearch.asp?CategoryID=2&Sort=3 - Without Wireless (Without wireless)
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopSearch.asp?CategoryID=65&Sort=3 - With Wireless G (With wireless G)
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopSearch.asp?CategoryID=389&Sort=3 - With Wireless N (With wireless N)

[Vincent Kars]

Sounds a bit like my situation.
One day I switched from ADSL to DSL over fiber.
The provider didn't support routers and I have 4 PC's + a networked printer…

Browsing a couple of user forums told me that DSL in essence is a WAN, so a normal Ethernet connection and the moment you connect something to it, the provider takes care of the DHCP.

I bought myself a DSL router, D-link DIR 655 (gigabit LAN) and plugged it in.
Within a couple of seconds I was connected to the internet without doing any configuring.
Connecting the PC's wired likewise.
In this case the DHCP of the router took care of everything.
Wifi is a bit more complicated but I managed to setup the connection manual.
The router offers good protection (SPI firewall), port forwarding can be easily configured, WiFi can be turned off, etc, etc.
Product is stable, has a good web interface with online help and is feature rich.
In other words, a happy DIR 655 owner.

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Network/Router.htm

[Marco]

Hi Vincent and Tom,

Just a quick one.... Could you please add your location details to your profiles when you get a chance? Cheers! :cool:

Marco.

[ZebuTheOxen]

As requested :)

Vincent, the DIR-655 is a Cable Router (no xDSL interface) which would also be appropriate for Dalek Supreme. Looks like another good choice!

Typical Fibre over DSL installations have a fibre 'modem' at the curb or on premises, with the physical connection to the household being a standard ethernet connection. From there you connect your own home router.
This is much like Virgin Media's way of doing things, providing Fibre up to the cabinet then coaxial to the premises which plugs into their own Cable modem. Again, the home router plugs into the modem.

[Vincent Kars]

Correct, I have a small box (http://www.genexis.nl/solutions.php) connected to the fiber translating the signal to standard Ethernet (and analogue TV + analogue telephone).

[Spectral Morn]

Thank you Tom for the info.


Regards D S D L

[Marco]

Correct, I have a small box (http://www.genexis.nl/solutions.php) connected to the fiber translating the signal to standard Ethernet (and analogue TV + analogue telephone).

Hi Vincent,

Please see my post #35 - cheers! :)

Tom, thanks for complying with my request :cool:

Marco.

[apanton1952]

Here's what I would do.

Keep the current box for connecting to your broadband.

I see you want wireless but you can't beat wired for speed, reliability and security.

Make sure both pc's have a gigabit lan card and get a cat6 crossover cable; much cheaper at the price and the master machine should have 2 lan cards in it, bridged too if required.
Set the pc connected to the broadband as your gateway if you need to have an internet connection on the other pc's.

I haven't yet seen a wireless that can stream movies, music and files successfully, especially in combination with an internet connection simultaneously.

Hope this helps...

[Spectral Morn]

Here's what I would do.

Keep the current box for connecting to your broadband.

I see you want wireless but you can't beat wired for speed, reliability and security.

Make sure both pc's have a gigabit lan card and get a cat6 crossover cable; much cheaper at the price and the master machine should have 2 lan cards in it, bridged too if required.
Set the pc connected to the broadband as your gateway if you need to have an internet connection on the other pc's.

I haven't yet seen a wireless that can stream movies, music and files successfully, especially in combination with an internet connection simultaneously.

Hope this helps...

Hi I don't no why some think I want wireless :eek: I don't, I want to use wires.

Thanks for the suggestions :)


Regards D S D L

[aquapiranha]

Hi I don't no why some think I want wireless :eek: I don't, I want to use wires.

Thanks for the suggestions :)


Regards D S D L

I would not worry too much about using wifi these days Neil. The old WEP was easy to crack remotely if you knew what you were doing...

49twamB180o

The newer encryption methods are lots more difficult

[Spectral Morn]

I would not worry too much about using wifi these days Neil. The old WEP was easy to crack remotely if you knew what you were doing...

49twamB180o

The newer encryption methods are lots more difficult

That's part of it Steve but the main reason is I just don't want any more crap floating through the ether in the house especially crap generated by me.


Regards D S D L

[dave2010]

Oh Dalek supremo!

Having wireless is really liberating, though as said by others, it doesn't always work as fast as wired systems. Most people I know hardly bother with wired systems anymore. Neither do I.

As you're not going to get into all the technical stuff I wish you luck.

Some of the other respondents have commented on the input side of a router (the WAN side) being just another ethernet port. I think there's a little more to it than that, but many routers will apparently work if connections are made through that socket. I figure that this is because of the design, just as many ethernet sockets these days work just as well with straight and cross-over wires. The devices work out what signals do what - which would not have been the case with earlier equipment. Thus if a router can function with a connection of an ethernet cable to the WAN input then it must realise that it's not connected to the DSL line, or to a cable line. I don't think this is necessarily in the specification of all routers, but it does seem to be the case (reportedly) that many work that way. I've read so many pages from people who've tried this, but I've not done it myself. If I want to connect routers together I do it through the LAN sockets.

[Krisbee]

I just don't want any more crap floating through the ether in the house especially crap generated by me.


Ether? What's that then? I thought you Daleks were technologically advanced. Don't you know electromagnetic waves can travel through a vacuum? Oh, wait a minute, what day of the week is it? Perhaps that should be particles, and I'm forgetting yobba rays. :doh:

[Krisbee]

Anyway, I think I have the solution to your problem. Ditch wimpy Windows and use Linux, a real man's operating system. Install a second network card in your machine, install the Linux distro of your choice. Set "forwarding on" in your network configuration to make sure your first, and now Linux, PC can act as a router. Configure one NIC for the WAN (Interent) side and the second NIC for your LAN (internal network) on a suitable subnet. Configure your routing table with your first PC as the gateway. Install Shorewall for a nice and easy configuration of your iptables based firewall ( see here for an examples: http://www.shorewall.net/). Now, of course this first machine will have to be on whenever you want Internet acccess on any other device connected to your LAN. Hang an auto-sensing mulitport 10/100mb switch off the LAN NIC of the first PC and run cat5 patch wires to connect to other devices. You could set up DHCPd on your first PC to handle all the ip addresses of the devices on your network. But on a small network static ips might be easier to work with. When you get to the stage of wanting to use wireless connections just get a wrt54g which you can connect to your switch and can be configure to act as a WAP (wireless access point) and with it's dual antenna gives great coverage that even your neighbours could connect to so don't forget to secure it.


Welcome to the wacky world of computer networking. Is it a joke? Well my advice is. I would imagine you're sorted now if you've got a router off of tighfisted Virgin. Mind you there was a time I did something like above to share Internet accees in the good old days of dialup modem services. Now it's all a lot more straight forward.

[Marco]

Hi Neil,


That's part of it Steve but the main reason is I just don't want any more crap floating through the ether in the house especially crap generated by me.


Quite right, mate.... I applaud your mentality. There's enough RFI generated these days by bloody mobile phones and masts, routers, and wireless this and that, all of which is sonically detrimental for a hi-fi system, so I'm glad you're doing your bit to minimise the pollution!! :rolleyes:

I wouldn't have a computer, router, mobile phone, or anything like that near my music room, as the crap such things generate, either through RFI or by polluting the mains supply, seriously degrades the sonic performance of your hi-fi system.

I've yet to witness a wireless system outperform a wired one. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's been my experience so far. So long live wires!

Hi Dave,


Having wireless is really liberating, though as said by others, it doesn't always work as fast as wired systems.


How exactly is having a system that's slower more liberating than one which is the opposite?

Me thinks some people here are seduced more by technology and, in particular, convenience than achieving the best possible overall performance with their gear.

No offence, but IMO, it's this type of mentality that has also lowered standards in audio applications. I hate sonic compromises with a passion when they exist because of people's obsession these days with convenience!!

As you were ;)

Marco.

[apanton1952]

If you ditch Windows then all your software goes, too.

[Krisbee]

If you ditch Windows then all your software goes, too.

Like virus checkers, stuff for trojan & worms, email exploits, disk defraggers, WGA validation, activation and a whole lot else. Read the whole post, it was a joke suggestion Arthur, a bit like Windows OS. So I'll stick with Linux thanks and leave Windows for others.;)

[apanton1952]

Like virus checkers, stuff for trojan & worms, email exploits, disk defraggers, WGA validation, activation and a whole lot else. Read the whole post, it was a joke suggestion Arthur, a bit like Windows OS. So I'll stick with Linux thanks and leave Windows for others.;)

Please don't take offence as none is intended. I have no preference for any particular os as they all have their pro's and cons. :)

[Krisbee]

Please don't take offence as none is intended. I have no preference for any particular os as they all have their pro's and cons. :)

No problem, none taken, Arthur. Threads like this can be a bit of a problem, everyone piles in with good intentions and before you know it Neil's head could be in a spin. I was having a tease.

[ZebuTheOxen]

Some of the other respondents have commented on the input side of a router (the WAN side) being just another ethernet port. I think there's a little more to it than that, but many routers will apparently work if connections are made through that socket.
The virgin box is just a modem, it's no more intelligent than a piece of string with two tin cans at either end. It takes the signals transmitted over the coaxial and outputs them in a more convenient fashion, twisted pair ethernet.
The router does all the clever business involving IP addresses, outside networks, inside networks and the routing between them.
If you plug your PC directly into the Virgin box, your network card and operating system will do all this work instead.


I figure that this is because of the design, just as many ethernet sockets these days work just as well with straight and cross-over wires. The devices work out what signals do what - which would not have been the case with earlier equipment.
True, auto-crossover saves a lot of headaches :)


Thus if a router can function with a connection of an ethernet cable to the WAN input then it must realise that it's not connected to the DSL line, or to a cable line.
You can deliver DSL over ethernet cable, what matters are the signals going over the cable, not the copper itself.


I don't think this is necessarily in the specification of all routers, but it does seem to be the case (reportedly) that many work that way. I've read so many pages from people who've tried this, but I've not done it myself. If I want to connect routers together I do it through the LAN sockets.
This is fine. You only need to plug things into the WAN side of a router when you want data to leave the network. :)

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Guys

yup my head is spinning. :scratch:


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

Hi Neil,



Quite right, mate.... I applaud your mentality. There's enough RFI generated these days by bloody mobile phones and masts, routers, and wireless this and that, all of which is sonically detrimental for a hi-fi system, so I'm glad you're doing your bit to minimise the pollution!! :rolleyes:

I wouldn't have a computer, router, mobile phone, or anything like that near my music room, as the crap such things generate, either through RFI or by polluting the mains supply, seriously degrades the sonic performance of your hi-fi system.

I've yet to witness a wireless system outperform a wired one. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's been my experience so far. So long live wires!

Hi Dave,



How exactly is having a system that's slower more liberating than one which is the opposite?

Me thinks some people here are seduced more by technology and, in particular, convenience than achieving the best possible overall performance with their gear.

No offence, but IMO, it's this type of mentality that has also lowered standards in audio applications. I hate sonic compromises with a passion when they exist because of people's obsession these days with convenience!!

As you were ;)

Marco.

Hi Marco

Yes I don't want to add to the pollution. I have the PC wired into a mains filter unit with RF clamps everywhere and well I don't hear a difference whether its on or off...except no fan noise (its very noisy). I can't tolerate noise in the listening room. Buzzing transformers, noisy drives, fans all drive me potty. I have got rid of gear for failing the acceptable noise test, some of it sounded quite good too.

As all my gear sits to the left side off where I sit to listen (no equipment sitting between my speakers to ruin the sound stage) I must have silence from everything or I must not be able to hear it above the most low level passages of music I listen to.


Regards D S D L

[ZebuTheOxen]

http://www.silentpcreview.com/
The go-to place for silent computing advice.

It's completely possible to build a very high end system with sub 30Db noise.
The majority of noise comes from graphics card coolers due to space constraints.

I'll be posting up my little media computer once it's built, it should easily be under 20Db.

[Krisbee]

http://www.silentpcreview.com/
The go-to place for silent computing advice.

Yes definitely the place to visit for a myriad of ideas, reviews and cpu coolers that use more metal than the local scrap yard and weigh a ton.

Seriously though, how many of us are running over specified power hungry PC's with oversized power supplies etc just to do a bit of surfing, email, office stuff and play our favourite tunes and then complain about fan noise and temps?


I'll be posting up my little media computer once it's built, it should easily be under 20Db.

Good, I'm always looking for inspiration. This one got me thingking: http://cheap-silent-usb-linux-music-....blogspot.com/

[Alex_UK]

Me thinks some people here are seduced more by technology and, in particular, convenience than achieving the best possible overall performance with their gear.

Guilty, as charged, m'lud. Much rather be sitting in the garden with a wireless laptop and a glass of red, not worrying if my hifi is affected (I take it you don't have wireless DECT phones, or mobile phones then?) whilst listening to some summer tunes - the secret is to make sure the first one is a large glass...!

[Marco]

Hi Alex,

Lol! Yes I have all those things, but keep them well away from the room where my hi-fi system is, so their interference is minimised. During serious listening sessions (when I have friends round) all mobile phones, computers and routers are switched off.

Yes, I'm rather pernickety about these things! :eyebrows:

I'm not big on taking the lappy outside, as I find you can't see the screen very well with the light reflections. It doesn't seem to matter where I put it. How do you get round that?

I'm with ya, brovva, on the enjoying a glass or three of red outside in the nice weather, and because I love my choons so much, I've even bought a new pair of nice vintage speakers to put out in the garden for that very purpose:


http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7347/buzkbib2kkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg (http://img526.imageshack.us/i/buzkbib2kkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg/)


:fingers: :cheers:

Marco.

[John]

Marco next time I come round I bring my laptop around and compare to your Sony Transport I think the Transport will win but think it be close

[Marco]

Coolio, John - I'm always up for such shenanigans! :eyebrows:

Still lovin' ya OBs, dude?

Marco.

[John]

Yep love what OBs do Just takes me so much closer into the music I been listening to alot of Flemenco guitar work such as Rodrigo Y Gabrielle, Justin King, Strunz and Farah and Jesse Cook I just love the speed of OBs they really keep up with the playing and allows all that percussive work to shine through Very realistic!

[Alex_UK]

I'm not big on taking the lappy outside, as I find you can't see the screen very well with the light reflections. It doesn't seem to matter where I put it. How do you get round that?

Either under a parasol, or in the summer house or just in front of it on the decking in a shady bit - granted, you're not in the sun, but as you've said you can't see the screen then!


I'm with ya, brovva, on the enjoying a glass or three of red outside in the nice weather, and because I love my choons so much, I've even bought a new pair of nice vintage speakers to put out in the garden for that very purpose:

Yes, I've seen those pristine looking Dittons you bought (and how much you paid for them! :stalks: ) and it has got me thinking again, I had been looking for some weatherproof speakers to install permanently, but actually, a pair to put out for the 6 days each year when it doesn't rain makes a lot of sense! ;)

Meanwhile, we need to take stock on Neil's predicament - I think Vincent's suggestion of a D-Link cable router is a valid one, but if you don't want wireless Neil, something cheap and simple should suffice - Belkin 4 Port 10/100 Cable / DSL Gateway Router - £11.99 delivered (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Belkin-4-Port-10-100-Cable-DSL-Gateway-Router-F5D5231-/120581169429?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item1c1332a115#ht_1338wt_911) - then you just need to get your RJ45/Network leads - anything CAT5E or newer will be fine - I've used dozens of different brands and never found any real differences, they tend to either work or not work. If you need some specific examples, let me know what colour you want, and I'll post some links, or alternatively if you're not fussed about the colour PM me your address and I'll post you some - may not be until next week though, although there might be some in the garage.

[Spectral Morn]

Either under a parasol, or in the summer house or just in front of it on the decking in a shady bit - granted, you're not in the sun, but as you've said you can't see the screen then!



Yes, I've seen those pristine looking Dittons you bought (and how much you paid for them! :stalks: ) and it has got me thinking again, I had been looking for some weatherproof speakers to install permanently, but actually, a pair to put out for the 6 days each year when it doesn't rain makes a lot of sense! ;)

Meanwhile, we need to take stock on Neil's predicament - I think Vincent's suggestion of a D-Link cable router is a valid one, but if you don't want wireless Neil, something cheap and simple should suffice - Belkin 4 Port 10/100 Cable / DSL Gateway Router - £11.99 delivered (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Belkin-4-Port-10-100-Cable-DSL-Gateway-Router-F5D5231-/120581169429?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item1c1332a115#ht_1338wt_911) - then you just need to get your RJ45/Network leads - anything CAT5E or newer will be fine - I've used dozens of different brands and never found any real differences, they tend to either work or not work. If you need some specific examples, let me know what colour you want, and I'll post some links, or alternatively if you're not fussed about the colour PM me your address and I'll post you some - may not be until next week though, although there might be some in the garage.

Hi Alex thank you for the link but have you seen their negative feedback :eek:
A wee bits fine but 161 unhappy people + another hundred or so and 11 recently Caveat Emptor me thinks.

Something like that would be fine but from someone with good feedback

I ordered some RJ45 cables last night from a seller with 100% feedback. It seems a lot of Computer sellers on Ebay have lots of bad feedback.


Regards D S D L

[Alex_UK]

TBH, I didn't look at the detail of the feedback (98.8% overall) and it wouldn't bother me personally (almost 1,000 positives this month with 16 negative, 16 neutral) though I do take your point - but from experience I like Belkin products, and something like (this from a seller you're happier with) would do the job.

The problem with computer kit is that is such a commodity these days that quite a bit is D.O.A. - so that may go some way to explaining the negs - but there are definitely some sellers better than others at comms...

[Spectral Morn]

TBH, I didn't look at the detail of the feedback (98.8% overall) and it wouldn't bother me personally (almost 1,000 positives this month with 16 negative, 16 neutral) though I do take your point - but from experience I like Belkin products, and something like (this from a seller you're happier with) would do the job.

The problem with computer kit is that is such a commodity these days that quite a bit is D.O.A. - so that may go some way to explaining the negs - but there are definitely some sellers better than others at comms...

I'll have a route about :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

We piece of info I was not aware of I need the router to be UPnP compatible

Hows about a D-Link DI-604 ?


Regards D S D L

[ZebuTheOxen]

The DI-604 is ok but it is quite old.
I am not at all sure it could move large amounts of data quickly.

The newer models sport faster processors and more memory for these tasks.

[Spectral Morn]

The DI-604 is ok but it is quite old.
I am not at all sure it could move large amounts of data quickly.

The newer models sport faster processors and more memory for these tasks.


Thank you I will knock that one of the list.

Any suggestions for a new D-Link ?

Regards D S D L

[Vincent Kars]

You don't need UPnP/DLNA on the router when the devices are in your local network.
In the local network the router act as a switch so it should simply transmit everything unaltered from one device to another.

Some devices like the Xbox needs UPnP to go live on the internet.

My router does have UPnP but I have it off for safety reasons.
All UPnP/DNLA inside the LAN works fine.
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Trouble/Streaming.htm

[Spectral Morn]

You don't need UPnP/DLNA on the router when the devices are in your local network.
In the local network the router act as a switch so it should simply transmit everything unaltered from one device to another.

Some devices like the Xbox needs UPnP to go live on the internet.

My router does have UPnP but I have it off for safety reasons.
All UPnP/DNLA inside the LAN works fine.
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Trouble/Streaming.htm

I have an item in the house that needs this.


Regards D S D L

[ZebuTheOxen]

The D-Link DIR-635 or DIR-655 are your best bets.

The 635 should be under £60.
Amazon do the 655 for £77 which seems reasonable.

Both will do 200mbit throughput which is plenty for streaming music / doing high quality video if you go down that path.

Obviously if you want to spend more, you get more speed.