Do I keep anything or start again?

[eatapeach]

After a break for other things in life I'm now planning a system for the next 15 years or so. I want a vinyl only system, mid range I have a few pieces from my original set up and I wonder if there is any point in keeping any of them or sell the lot and start again.

I have ended up with a few long stored items - original Rega 3 with RB200 arm, Nytech 252, Systemdek IIx 900 with RB300 arm and old Yorks hifi 1-3 speakers.

I am thinking about keeping the Nytech and getting it serviced - but that will cost £300
The Systemdek again can be serviced and it used to be a step up from the Rega but not as good as a Pink Triangle I used to own.
Sell the Rega and give away the speakers

What would you do? I'm thinking that £300 could be used better for a Rega Brio -R or even a Sugden A21, and then look to Spendor or similar for the speakers

What do you recommend?

[Frazeur1]

Maybe establish a budget, and then try to listen to complete systems around that price point and go from there. It is a start anyway!

[dave2010]

Is it worth doing a mid-range vinyl system? I’m not going to get into vinyl vs digital or other discussions, but I’m really not sure that it’s worth doing a mid range system. Do you already have a lot of vinyl records? If so, it might make sense, otherwise maybe not. I don’t have quite the same “problem” as I do use and collect CDs (maybe around 6000) but I’ve also got turntables which I never seem to have time to fix, and vinyl which doesn’t get played.

I have thought of buying a new modest turntable just to play some of the rarer LPs, but most of the stuff I have is on CDs anyway.

[eatapeach]

Maybe establish a budget, and then try to listen to complete systems around that price point and go from there. It is a start anyway!

Budget for all - buying second hand - is approx £2k plus whatever I raise from selling




Is it worth doing a mid-range vinyl system? I’m not going to get into vinyl vs digital or other discussions, but I’m really not sure that it’s worth doing a mid range system. Do you already have a lot of vinyl records? If so, it might make sense, otherwise maybe not. I don’t have quite the same “problem” as I do use and collect CDs (maybe around 6000) but I’ve also got turntables which I never seem to have time to fix, and vinyl which doesn’t get played.

.

Yes - a lot of vinyl which is why I want a vinyl only system

[Firebottle]

Hi Richard, £300 seems an awful lot to get the Nytech serviced.
I can take a look at it for you for a lot less if you wish, I service/repair/modify all sorts.

[AJSki2fly]

Budget for all - buying second hand - is approx £2k plus whatever I raise from selling Yes - a lot of vinyl which is why I want a vinyl only system

Well the Systemdek i believe is actually not that bad and was well thought of when it came out, I suspect you could spend £1k or more on a replacement on not get much improvement. The rb300 is similarly a pretty good and well thought after arm. I would consider a good cartridge presumably MM. The Nytech was good in its day and was built well, slightly let down by its balance and volume pots, if the £300 sorts caps and gets it on spec then it may be hard to better, it looks like they sell for £200-300, a tricky one, maybe sell and look for a good amp, £500 to £1k. There are plenty of good speakers around 2nd hand, there have been several on here recently for £300 to £800. I do have some JBL Century L100’s but may be outside your budget, depending what you do.

[Jazid]

I agree with the above post. I'd personally sell the Rega which should near on pay for Firebottle to do the service of the Nytech, and look for a suitable cartridge and speakers. The vinyl rabbit hole will eat your £2k and still be hungry for more and you need speakers more than a t/t and arm. If you want to upgrade afterwards well fair enough, but it will be a good system and a handsome budget available for speakers which will make the biggest difference.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

[walpurgis]

Well the Systemdek i believe is actually not that bad and was well thought of when it came out, I suspect you could spend £1k or more on a replacement on not get much improvement.

I agree.

[walpurgis]

What would you do? I'm thinking that £300 could be used better for a Rega Brio -R or even a Sugden A21, and then look to Spendor or similar for the speakers

What do you recommend?

The Brio R has been used by quite a few members here and is well liked.

You won't get a modern Sugden A21 variant for £300 and even the original vintage ones are likely to cost that much or more and also likely to need an expensive full rebuild/service adding a few more hundreds to your outlay and to be honest, it's nice, but not that nice.

Have you looked at the Quad Vena for a bit more money second hand, they have been getting popular?

[scotty38]

I have a pair of PMC TB2+ in oak that I've had from new, perfect condition, all boxes etc with Partington Dreadnought stands. Have the matching centre too as it happens...

[dave2010]

MM cartridges are mentioned above - post 6. Are they now preferred to MC, or are MCs now too esoteric and expensive?

[Barry]

MM cartridges are mentioned above - post 6. Are they now preferred to MC, or are MCs now too esoteric and expensive?

A good fixed-coil cartridge is always preferable to a mediocre moving-coil design, as well as being cheaper.

[walpurgis]

I've had MC's that were shockers and non-MC's that were excellent. But it works both ways.

[AJSki2fly]

MM cartridges are mentioned above - post 6. Are they now preferred to MC, or are MCs now too esoteric and expensive?

If you want a good sound and VFM then to keep in budget go MM, Ortofon 2M Bronze or Black would be worth considering, I would opt for the black possibly for more detail and control,

or NAGAOKA MP-200 see https://worldofturntables.com/nagaoka-mp-200-cartridge-review-test-and-final-verdict/ not much against this one at the price.

Or the AUDIO TECHNICA VM750SH DUAL MOVING MAGNET STEREO CARTRIDGE WITH SHIBATA STYLUS from a review "This replaced my AT-140LC (line contact) cartridge. The sound is very similar....but more refined. I attribute this to the better body construction. The Shibata stylus profile, like the line contact reduces or hides surface noise. I rarely ever hear a pop or a click. For the money...well, for today's money...I don't think you can do any better! It immerses you in the glorious sound vinyl can offer!"

Here is the link to my JBL's, we can discuss if you are interested, easy to drive as very efficient, lots of detail mid and top, great controlled bass and easy to position as front ported, really they are a largish monitor. Have a read about them generally. https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?66793-Interest-Check-JBL-Century-L100s-speakers&p=1142433#post1142433

Hope that helps a bit.

By the way your Rega RB300 spec is below, so what ever cartridge you opt for just make sure is is 4 to 11gm, and check that it is compatible from a resonance frequency point see https://www.ortofon.com/support/support-hifi/resonance-frequency/, 1µm/mN equals 1cm/dyne X (10-6)

So the Ortofon Bronze and Black are both 22 µm/mN, which means in your RB300 with effective mass of 11.5gm looking at the chart it would result in a resonant frequency of about 10hz, which is good.

Similarly the nagaoka-mp-200 is 20µm/mN so will be very slight less than 10HZ which is fine

the Audio Technica is 40 x 10-6 cm/dyne static and dynamic compliance 10 x 10-6 cm/dyne at 100hz, so working it out the static resonance is about 6hz and dynamic is just over 11hz. so this should be OK as well I think.


Rega RB300
Specifications:
Effective length: 237mm
Overhang: 15mm
Mounting distance: 222mm
Effective mass: 11.5g
Cartridge weight: 4 to 11g

[Lurch]

I would say flog the Rega 3 + rb300, which should net you around £400. Whilst the rb300 is a reasonably good arm you can do better by fitting either an OL Onyx or Silver to the Systemdeck.
Cart wise any of the above suggestions + Goldring 1042 would see you right. Also contact Firebottle about the amp service, this would then see you with around £1k for speakers.

[AJSki2fly]

I would say flog the Rega 3 + rb300, which should net you around £400. Whilst the rb300 is a reasonably good arm you can do better by fitting either an OL Onyx or Silver to the Systemdeck.
Cart wise any of the above suggestions + Goldring 1042 would see you right. Also contact Firebottle about the amp service, this would then see you with around £1k for speakers.

Why not sell the Rega 3 with the RB200 and keep the RB300?

[Lurch]

Why not sell the Rega 3 with the RB200 and keep the RB300?

Sell R3/200 + rb300 was what I meant, the 300 is easily bettered for sensible money (above what could be achieved by R7 or OL mods) giving a much better front end for minimal cost.

[eatapeach]

Hi Richard, £300 seems an awful lot to get the Nytech serviced.
I can take a look at it for you for a lot less if you wish, I service/repair/modify all sorts.

thats a kind offer - one problem is the volume knob has been lost but the plastic post it attached to has snapped - that may be enough to make it not worthwhile to repair. I'll PM you to discuss

[eatapeach]

Well the Systemdek i believe is actually not that bad and was well thought of when it came out, I suspect you could spend £1k or more on a replacement on not get much improvement. The rb300 is similarly a pretty good and well thought after arm. I would consider a good cartridge presumably MM. The Nytech was good in its day and was built well, slightly let down by its balance and volume pots, if the £300 sorts caps and gets it on spec then it may be hard to better, it looks like they sell for £200-300, a tricky one, maybe sell and look for a good amp, £500 to £1k. There are plenty of good speakers around 2nd hand, there have been several on here recently for £300 to £800. I do have some JBL Century L100’s but may be outside your budget, depending what you do.

Thanks Adrian

Thats in line with my current thinking - service and upgrade the Systemdek as it would require quite a bit more to improve on that. The deck has a Roksan blue cartridge

I will look for speakers - sell teh Rega - and it's then a toss up if I sell or restore the Nytech. I know I'm looking at upto £1k for an amp. As to decisions about speakers I think I need to see what I do about the amp before I decide but I'll keep your JBLs in mind!!!

[eatapeach]

The Brio R has been used by quite a few members here and is well liked.

You won't get a modern Sugden A21 variant for £300 and even the original vintage ones are likely to cost that much or more and also likely to need an expensive full rebuild/service adding a few more hundreds to your outlay and to be honest, it's nice, but not that nice.

Have you looked at the Quad Vena for a bit more money second hand, they have been getting popular?

thanks Geoff. For clarity I mean that the £300 cost of servicing the Nytech would go towards an amp - not that I expect to pay only 300 for a Sugden!

[graham67]

Agree keep you systemdek. the rb300 would benefit massively from an audio origami rewire, the stock wire is awful and a Johnnie7 rewire will hugely improve the performance. It is also light which suits the bouncy deck ��

[Natara]

I'd sell one Rega arm and use the money to get the other modified by Audio Origami buy either an Ortofon 2M Blue or something from the Audio Technica VM range, get the amp serviced by firebottle and spend the rest on some good speakers, personally I'd buy something modern by ATC, PMC, Neat or Dynaudio.

[eatapeach]

I'd sell one Rega arm and use the money to get the other modified by Audio Origami buy either an Ortofon 2M Blue or something from the Audio Technica VM range, get the amp serviced by firebottle and spend the rest on some good speakers, personally I'd buy something modern by ATC, PMC, Neat or Dynaudio.

cheers - thats roughly my thinking although the Nytech can be bettered I think but it depends on the cost of putting it right

[AJSki2fly]

cheers - thats roughly my thinking although the Nytech can be bettered I think but it depends on the cost of putting it right

None of the suggested are within budget unless you go for smaller ones and even then pricey, and that will compromise the low end result. Whatever you go for try with the amp you end up with first, preferably a home demo, one speaker may work in your room when another won’t. Remember it depends what type of sound you wants well, quite a few modern speakers can sound a bit up front and become tiring to listen, it’s to do with the materials used in some of the mid and top end drivers. I listened to PMCs extensively at an audition and found that, for me anyway. There are also a pair of Tannoys up for sale on here for about £800 that are good.

[Barry]

Ideally the product of the cartridge's dynamic compliance (in cu) with the total mass (effective mass of the arm + cartridge mass + cartridge fixings, in grams) ought to lay in the range:


175 < MC <400

for the arm-cartridge resonant frequency to lay in the 'safe zone' of 8 - 12Hz.

With either the Ortofon or the Nagaoka cartridges when used in the Rega arm, the calculated arm-cartridge resonance frequencies are borderline; but if the turntable is well isolated, they ought not be any cause for concern.

Use of the Audio Technica cartridge with the Rega arm would appear to be ideal: with an MC product of 234.

[Idlewithnodrive]

My 10p worth is, spend about £1K on some decent speakers, keep and service the Systemdek / RB300 (£150 ?) , £350 - 400 on a new decent MM cart and leaves about £800 (after selling the Rega / R200) for a nice integrated.

Speakers are by far the most important element in the chain.

[eatapeach]

My 10p worth is, spend about £1K on some decent speakers, keep and service the Systemdek / RB300 (£150 ?) , £350 - 400 on a new decent MM cart and leaves about £800 (after selling the Rega / R200) for a nice integrated.

Speakers are by far the most important element in the chain.

Yes - I'm coming to that conclusion! cheers

[eatapeach]

I'd sell one Rega arm and use the money to get the other modified by Audio Origami buy either an Ortofon 2M Blue or something from the Audio Technica VM range, get the amp serviced by firebottle and spend the rest on some good speakers, personally I'd buy something modern by ATC, PMC, Neat or Dynaudio.

I've been in contact with Johnnie7 and he's given a list of options. So I'm going to look at those and prioritise what I think will give most benefit.

I also chatted with Fidelity Designs about a platter upgrade.
So the current glass is 10mm thick and weighs 1767 grammes. The closest replacement is Delrin 15.5mm thick which weighs 1500 grammes. Now I know Systemdek did offer a metal rectangular armboard and acrylic 20mm platter on the IIx 900 - mine has the metal armboard but glass platter.

So the question is whether the 15.5 mm platter from Fidelity will work or not - will it be heavy enough? I think maybe the 20mm platter might need a shim for the arm to keep the angles correct. FIdelity do offer a 17mm Delrin platter which will be closer to the weight of the original platter but it may need some firtling with the arm to make it work.

Apart from there there are several good threads on low cost practical mods to the Systemdek that I'm going to look at - fingers crossed!

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=99274.0

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/85357-systemdek-x11-900-tweaks-and-getting-the-best-out-of-turntable/