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Marco
13-06-2010, 20:45
I fancied a pair of small vintage speakers for the garden to use when the weather's nice and we're eating al fresco, so will pump the choons from my system outside into these cuties....

I've never seen a pair so minty mint, given that they're over 40 years old!! :eek:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1628/buzkefgcgkkgrhqrhoev10f.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/i/buzkefgcgkkgrhqrhoev10f.jpg/) http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7347/buzkbib2kkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/i/buzkbib2kkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg/)


http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9371/buzkbvgewkkgrhqfisev1zv.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/buzkbvgewkkgrhqfisev1zv.jpg/) http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2199/buzkcdwb2kkgrhqvimev10c.jpg (http://img227.imageshack.us/i/buzkcdwb2kkgrhqvimev10c.jpg/)


http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5779/buzkglcwkkgrhqvisev10ek.jpg (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/buzkglcwkkgrhqvisev10ek.jpg/) http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7685/buzkiu2kkgrhqnjkev10bic.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/buzkiu2kkgrhqnjkev10bic.jpg/)


http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5692/buzke7wkkgrhqzhev10egzb.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/buzke7wkkgrhqzhev10egzb.jpg/) http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6447/buzkhzgcwkkgrhqvhsev10g.jpg (http://img231.imageshack.us/i/buzkhzgcwkkgrhqvhsev10g.jpg/)

When we have friends round for dinner, and want some music, they'll be used in the lounge (on suitable stands) in the same way :)

I've always liked vintage Celestions, and these Ditton 15XRs, in such amazing condition, will do nicely!

Later, I'll upgrade the crossovers (like I did with the Tannoys) and internal wire and speaker binding posts, and see just how good I can get them to sound. But for the moment I'll just be enjoying them as they are :cool:

Marco.

aquapiranha
13-06-2010, 20:51
Marco, I have some Ditton 15's the original ones here you could have them for free if you want them?

They dont look as nice though I will give you that lol

Marco
13-06-2010, 20:52
Lol - I've just bought these ones, matey!

The XRs I believe are better than the standard 15s. I suspect they'll sound perfectly acceptable on the end of my system. They're just a bit of fun, really, so we can lap up some tunes whilst outside slurping a bottle of claret :eyebrows:

And I hate buying new shite when it comes to budget speakers. Save the planet by recycling too, and all that!

Marco.

aquapiranha
13-06-2010, 20:54
I dunno, just can't give the stuff away these days! lol


they do look nice though.

Marco
13-06-2010, 21:02
Yup. You see plenty of tatty looking examples, which go for buttons, but very rarely anything in such near mint condition! It was the condition that sold me them more than anything else, TBH :)

Marco.

Rare Bird
13-06-2010, 21:31
Lol - I've just bought these ones, matey!

The XRs I believe are better than the standard 15s. I suspect they'll sound perfectly acceptable on the end of my system. They're just a bit of fun, really, so we can lap up some tunes whilst outside slurping a bottle of claret :eyebrows:

And I hate buying new shite when it comes to budget speakers. Save the planet by recycling too, and all that!

Marco.

Actually the original 15' with the Celestion 'HF1300' would be a better speaker with say a Coles '4001' fitted aswell...

I used to own a pair of 15XR donkies years ago with A&R '60', J.A.Michell 'Focus One'/Hadcock 'GH-220'/Nag 'MP11' was great..

My fav Dittons are the '33'..Nice find tho dude, watch out though they can overload easy..

Marco
13-06-2010, 21:33
Yup, I'm quite chuffed with them, and there'll be plenty of tweakage to keep me amused later, too...... ;)

Marco.

Marco
13-06-2010, 21:43
I wonder if they'll be better than the Mission '700-2' I used when I was a teenager in the 80s:

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5733/mission7002.jpg (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/mission7002.jpg/)

:eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird
13-06-2010, 21:44
Yup, I'm quite chuffed with them, and there'll be plenty of tweakage to keep me amused later, too...... ;)

Marco.

Dude these are better speaker IMHO..Go for it son ;)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pair-Celestion-Ditton-33-speakers-excellent-cond-/190403114947?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpea kers&hash=item2c54e8f7c3

Marco
13-06-2010, 21:49
Lol - I saw those but went for the Dittons.....

This wasn't a serious speaker purchase, of course, so they'll do fine. I bet they'll still be better than some of the shite on the market these days! :lol:

Marco.

Rare Bird
13-06-2010, 21:49
I wonder if they'll be better than the Mission '700-2' I used when I was a teenager in the 80s:

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5733/mission7002.jpg (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/mission7002.jpg/)

:eyebrows: ;)

Marco.

yeh those missions are a tad bass light

Rare Bird
13-06-2010, 21:50
Lol - I saw those but went for the Dittons.....

This wasn't a serious speaker purchase, of course, so they'll do fine. I bet they'll still be better than some of the shite on the market these days! :lol:

Marco.

Aye i love ABR units they crank my chain for some reason :lolsign:

Marco
13-06-2010, 21:54
I'll let you know what I think when I get them :)

If you see a cheap pair of suitable stands for them anywhere, let me know!

Marco.

Rare Bird
13-06-2010, 22:13
I'll let you know what I think when I get them :)

If you see a cheap pair of suitable stands for them anywhere, let me know!

Marco.

Try these 300mm & 400mm high, i'm postive the original stands were 14'' tall..i think the 15's are about 10'' w & d you have to check top plates to your spekkas but these are very well built stands...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Atacama-SL300-Speaker-Stands-Black-/390140049278?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_EquipmentStands_SM&hash=item5ad628b77e

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Atacama-SL400-Speaker-Stands-Black-/390140049293?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_EquipmentStands_SM&hash=item5ad628b78d

The Vinyl Adventure
13-06-2010, 22:32
I been using my b&o system for the garden but have also been looking for something a bit better...one of the tweeters is died in one of the b&o's speakers :(

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/4a78d6ff.jpg

Marco
13-06-2010, 22:33
Try these 300mm & 400mm high, i'm postive the original stands were 14'' tall..i think the 15's are about 10' w & d you have to check top plates to your spekkas but these are very well built stands...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Atacama-SL300-...item5ad628b77e

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Atacama-SL400-...item5ad628b78d


Cheers, dude. I think the 400s would be more suitable.... The dimensions I've been given for the Dittons are (H)56 x (W)25 x (D)24cm :)

Marco.

Marco
13-06-2010, 22:36
Hamish,

Why don't you go for the Celestion 33s Andre linked to earlier on Ebay? They'll be ace. Look: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pair-Celestion-Ditton-33-speakers-excellent-cond-/190403114947?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpea kers&hash=item2c54e8f7c3&afsrc=1

Ya lurves yer garden sounds too, I see! Nice speaker stands you've got there.... :respect:

Marco.

Rare Bird
13-06-2010, 22:42
Cheers, dude. I think the 400s would be more suitable.... The dimensions I've been given of the Dittons are (H)56 x (W)25 x (D)24cm :)

Marco.

I was just thinking they are tallish speakers for their diamensions & the tweeters being right up in the top corner...You'll be best judge when you get em for ear height ...Nice one anyway...

Rare Bird
13-06-2010, 22:45
Hamish,

Why don't you go for the Celestion 33s Andre linked to earlier on Ebay? They'll be ace. Look: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pair-Celestion-Ditton-33-speakers-excellent-cond-/190403114947?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_HiFiSpea kers&hash=item2c54e8f7c3&afsrc=1

Ya lurves yer garden sounds too, I see! Nice speaker stands you've got there.... :respect:

Marco.

Just to add hamish the '33' are very efficient aswell.

The Grand Wazoo
13-06-2010, 23:46
They look to be in really good nick, Marco.
There's a lot to be said for getting music around and about the house. Some folks swear by this new fangled streaming nonsense, I prefer to accumulate gear. An awareness of what old stuff is capable of is a good lesson in how far (or not) we've moved forward over the last decades, is it not?

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 00:11
An awareness of what old stuff is capable of is a good lesson in how far (or not) we've moved forward over the last decades, is it not?

Convenience thats how far we've come.

Just ask yourself why so many people buy Vintage gear & why people pay so much..

Ali Tait
14-06-2010, 07:43
Exactly.I think we've actually gone backwards in some ways.Some vintage prices are well over the top though IMO.Too much hype.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 09:14
Too much hype.

Only the select few Garrards, Leaks, Radfords etc..guess who's fault that is.

Marco
14-06-2010, 09:16
Hi Chris,


They look to be in really good nick, Marco.
There's a lot to be said for getting music around and about the house. Some folks swear by this new fangled streaming nonsense, I prefer to accumulate gear. An awareness of what old stuff is capable of is a good lesson in how far (or not) we've moved forward over the last decades, is it not?

Yes, according to the chap I bought them from, they look like they've just left the factory :)

I also favour the accumulating gear option, and would have a different system, with its own individual sonic 'flavour', in every room if I had the space!

Apart from disliking (with a passion) how many modern speakers are voiced, especially budget varieties (horrible shouty, 'toppy' sounding things, designed to sound 'impressive' during a 5 minute listen at Richer Sounds), I wanted something old to better match the decor of our house, and also something that was solid and properly built.

The beautifully pristine cabinets of the Celestions are made from solid wood (not the MDF shite used nowadays in budget designs), have a solid teak veneer, and are so obviously not intensively mass-produced like your average Taiwan-derived bargain specials sold now in high street shops!

I completely agree that, in terms of out-and-out audio performance, we've gone more backwards than forwards with hi-fi in the last 15 years or so. The only saving grace is computer audio, when done well.

Almost any quality vintage gear, when judiciously upgraded with modern components, is better than the majority of sensibly-priced hi-fi kit sold now - that's pretty much a fact. The exceptions to the rule I find are preamps and phono stages, where vintage varieties are in my experience rarely superior to their modern counterparts, as they tend to be somewhat over-complicated internally and rather noisy in comparison. There are exceptions, though.

An unusual one for me too is that I usually prefer classic Jap 1970s transistor tuners to earlier valve-based ones. I like the Troughline, for example, but give me a lovely big 1970s Sansui, Sony or Yamaha any day!

Yes, a lot of vintage gear is vastly overpriced (especially things like valves), but much of that is to do with wealthy collectors willing to pay over the odds for equipment from certain famous brands. The term 'collector' is often the operative word here, because many of them simply collect (read as hoard) vintage gear and keep it to admire as an ornament, with it never going near a system to be used for its original intention.

I understand why people do that, but I can't relate to it. When I buy vintage gear, it's judiciously selected for a specific purpose - and it gets USED in my system, not left to gather dust on a shelf. Like I said earlier, if I had the space, I'd have a different system in every room, and most of it would be made up of various examples of classic kit, used and enjoyed to reproduce music, as it was always intended for :cool:

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 09:21
Marco
I think i know who you bought them from & if you did you payed a lot you nutter :lolsign: However they are nice, if it's him he has one of the last Mk.1 Ditton 15 with the cabs same as the 'XR' for sale that look equally as nice..There should be plenty '15 about they made around a quater of a million of em..:)

Marco
14-06-2010, 09:33
Lol - it's not difficult to find if you look..... :eyebrows:

Ok, to save people's curiosity, here's the link to the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270588380203

I didn't want to pay that for them, but there were 27 bids on the f*ckers and so I had to keep upping my bid to stay in the lead! :doh:

Clearly, given the level of interest, they were worth having (mainly of course due to the condition) ;)

Marco.

Ali Tait
14-06-2010, 09:37
Also I think the Japanese mania for vintage British gear pushed up prices in the past.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 09:39
Lol - it's not difficult to find if you look..... :eyebrows:

Ok, to save people's curiosity, here's the link to the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270588380203

I didn't want to pay that for them, but there were 27 bids on the fuckers and so I had to keep upping my bid to stay in the lead! :doh:

Clearly, given the level of interest, they were worth having (mainly of course due to the condition) ;)

Marco.

I knew anyway already seen them, don't worry i've seen a few pairs go for that much so it's no suprise (there's a right & wrong way to bid on items ;) )..It's all odd tho cos i gave £20 for a pair around 20 years ago! He's a good seller .. i bid on a Crimson Elektrik 500 series a bit ago he was selling..

Marco
14-06-2010, 09:46
Lol, I know..... But I *wanted* them, and there's not a lot you can do when someone comes in with a bid and sets a higher upper limit than yours, so you have to increase yours to supersede it.

I wonder why Celestion moved from using the Coles tweeters on the later XRs?

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 10:02
Lol, I know..... But I *wanted* them, and there's not a lot you can do when someone comes in with a bid and sets a higher upper limit than yours, so you have to increase yours to better it.

I wonder why Celestion moved from using the Coles tweeters on the later XRs?

Marco.

They didnt use Coles tweeters they were Celestion HF1300 in the original but lacked HF extension ..they made there own tweeters.Celestion HF2000 as used in the '44' is a good tweeter

Marco
14-06-2010, 10:06
Oh, sorry, my mistake..... So the tweeters on the originals (on the left) are Celestion HF1300s?


http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/1190/bvv5jogbgkkgrhqeokjuevy.jpg (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/bvv5jogbgkkgrhqeokjuevy.jpg/) http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7347/buzkbib2kkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/buzkbib2kkgrhqvjkev10db.jpg/)


So which model of tweeters are used on mine beside them - in fact, if you know, what are the differences in the drivers used overall on both designs, and why did they change them? :)

Where's Dave (DSJR) or hifi dave when you need them!

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 10:27
I forget the 'XR' tweeter model but the reason the 'HF1300' was inadiquate is it would only reach around 15KHz (i think, maybe 18kHz), most companies like Spendor with the BC1, B&W with the 'DM2/4' etc would use a combo of 'HF1300' & Coles '4001'... the coles tweeter alone has a spec that will reach around 35kHz...It's much cheaper i'd have thought to just make a soft dome & plonk it in a revised 15..

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/vintageBC1.htm

Marco
14-06-2010, 10:33
Cool, I see. So just to clarify, is the tweeter on the model on the left (in the pic above) a Coles or Celestion unit? :)

Do you know anything about the difference in midrange and bass drivers used on both models?

I'm just trying to learn as much as possible about the ones I've bought!

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 10:36
Cool, I see. So just to clarify, is the tweeter on the model on the left (in the pic above) a Coles or Celestion unit? :)

Do you know anything about the difference in midrange and bass drivers used on both models?

I'm just trying to learn as much as possible about the ones I've bought!

Marco.

Thats the HF1300 on the left speaker u pictured..

Marco
14-06-2010, 10:41
Cheers, dude. Therefore, I presume the tweeters used on the XRs were better in terms of them having superior high-frequency extension.......

I'm curious to know about the midrange and bass drivers used on both models.

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 10:44
Do you know anything about the difference in midrange and bass drivers used on both models?



The centre unit is a Bass/Midrange,different unit on each .original (your left pic) has a cast alloy baskets like the '44'... the bottom isnt a drive units it's an ABR (Aux Bass Unit). it has no electrical diaphram at all, Kef made one in the B139..

ps: Paul (Spendorman) is the guy you wanna talk to, the 60's era, coles etcs are his thing. He'll most probably agree that the Celestion 'HF1300'/Coles '4001' combo is probably the best sounding tweeter arrangement ever created

Marco
14-06-2010, 10:50
Ah, right-o - cheers. So they should have quite a 'meaty' sound then and decent bass heft for a speaker of that size?

And probably rather different from the toppy, anaemic sounding budget monstrosities sold these days!

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 10:54
Cheers, dude. Therefore, I presume the tweeters used on the XRs were better in terms of them having superior high-frequency extension.......



Yes but wouldnt sound as good as an 'HF1300' with Coles '4001')

Marco
14-06-2010, 11:06
Yep, gotcha - it'll simply be a trade-off, as with most things in hi-fi.

I'd imagine too though that the overall sonic presentation of the XRs will in certain areas offer something extra over the MK1s, otherwise Celestion wouldn't have completely revamped the drive units.

I certainly can't wait to hear them on the end of the kind of kit I use, which will be nothing like what they were partnered with in the 60s! :eyebrows:

Marco.

hifi_dave
14-06-2010, 12:57
The tweets on the left are the Celestion HF1300 which was an excellent unit. The ones on the right look like Peerless or Audax.

They probably dropped the HF1300 because it was an expensive design.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 13:00
The ones on the right look like Peerless or Audax.



No the ones on the right are also Celestion tweeters..I'm sure it's 'HD-1000' as used in the '33'!

Marco
14-06-2010, 13:26
Well, if the '33' are good, I suppose that's a bonus! :)

Dave, do you know anything about the respective mid and bass units on both models of Ditton, specifically if the ones on the XRs were considered as an upgrade?

I'd have thought they were from your era, mate! ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 13:38
Marco:
I know your eagar to know but only a obsessed nutter will know.. i think it's probably more to do with costing than anything if not a whole new Crossover/unit design to accomidate the new tweeter......The '33' has a nice 10'' bass unit which sound suprisingly tight, the '22' is simular looking but smaller speaker..

I'm actually considering buying a pair of '33' i have for sometime as i really liked em. Some folk don't like the Tweeters in these they think they are sizzly, i never had a prob with that cos i never use bright sounding amps most probably..

Dave: i don't remember Celestion ever using someone elses tweeters in the hifi range back then!

Marco
14-06-2010, 14:08
I know your eagar to know but only a obsessed nutter will know..


...which is why I asked DSJR :eyebrows:


Dave: i don't remember Celestion ever using someone elses tweeters in the hifi range back then!

Good point; I suspect you're right, and also about the 15XRs sharing the same tweeter as the 33s. Looking at their respective tweeters side-by-side, I agree there is a significant resemblence.........


Tweeter on the 15XRs: http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5692/buzke7wkkgrhqzhev10egzb.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/buzke7wkkgrhqzhev10egzb.jpg/)


Tweeter on the 33s: http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/3775/bvfbzjwmkkgrhqriev10en0.jpg (http://img816.imageshack.us/i/bvfbzjwmkkgrhqriev10en0.jpg/)

:)

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 14:26
...which is why I asked DSJR :eyebrows:



Looking at their respective tweeters side-by-side, I agree there is a significant resemblence.........



As is

The Ditton '11'/'15XR'/'22'/'33'/'UL6'/'UL-8' etc...;)

DSJR
14-06-2010, 14:27
I dunno... I've been doing some *work* today (five hours no less...).......

Right. it was my understanding that the Ditton 15XR had the HF1300's in 'em. It's so long ago and I'm sorry to say they sounded a bit horrid by this time, so I never bothered to lift the grilles off to see what was inside - sorry. When I've finished the school run I'll look up me HiFi Choice book and see what tweeters their review ones had..

Marco, the tweeters in yours look to be the same as the ones in the "UL" series which came out at the same time. this has a wider bandwidth than the HF1300, which needs a high crossover point plus a "super-tweeter" to aid it above 14KHz. By the way, the BBC derived models with HF1300's had a version with a much larger magnet and 16 Ohm loading IIRC. These performed with rather more control apparently - there was a thread last year on the Yahoo Spendor group describing them.

Seriously Marco, (the Ditton 25's were pants but) the 33 and 44 would be marvellous for the garden (12" bass driver in the 44) as they go loud, are efficient IIRC and sound very good if got off the floor (most of these were plonked on the carpet with the inevitable results)

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 14:29
I been using my b&o system for the garden but have also been looking for something a bit better...one of the tweeters is died in one of the b&o's speakers :(

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww282/hamish_gill/4a78d6ff.jpg

Hamish:
Ever seen that trick where you pull the table cloth from under a full laid out dinner table? :)

hifi_dave
14-06-2010, 14:37
Well, if the '33' are good, I suppose that's a bonus! :)

Dave, do you know anything about the respective mid and bass units on both models of Ditton, specifically if the ones on the XRs were considered as an upgrade?

I'd have thought they were from your era, mate! ;)

Marco.

Sorry, I don't know much about them, I was more interested in the less commercial designs like Celef, Keesonic, Chartwell, Spendor, WAR, RAM, JBL etc. I did own a pair of Ditton 10's though - they had the HF1300.

I do know that the HF1300 was an expensive unit to make and it would make sense for a commercial company to use an Audax or Peerless as, back then, a good HF would cost a fiver or so from them.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 14:53
Sorry, I don't know much about them, I was more interested in the less commercial designs like Celef, Keesonic, Chartwell, Spendor, WAR, RAM, JBL etc. I did own a pair of Ditton 10's though - they had the HF1300.

I do know that the HF1300 was an expensive unit to make and it would make sense for a commercial company to use an Audax or Peerless as, back then, a good HF would cost a fiver or so from them.

Yes Celestion 10 did have a 'HF1300' as did the old C: 'County'

Agreed it would be a good idea to buy in tweeters but it's also easier to make a crossover to their own design unit..I can assure you they were Celestion tweeters.

Marco
14-06-2010, 14:57
Hi Dave,


I dunno... I've been doing some *work* today (five hours no less...).......


Work? How dare you - this is far more important! :eyebrows:


Right. it was my understanding that the Ditton 15XR had the HF1300's in 'em. It's so long ago and I'm sorry to say they sounded a bit horrid by this time, so I never bothered to lift the grilles off to see what was inside - sorry. When I've finished the school run I'll look up me HiFi Choice book and see what tweeters their review ones had..


Cheers, please do.

I'd be very surprised though if the XRs sound horrid on the end of good kit. In my view, some of the speakers from that era sounded that way more likely because of the quality of some of the partnering equipment, bell-wire used as speaker cable (and just as poor quality interconnects), lack of proper stands, and designs possibly using not the best of crossover components......

I expect them to shine when nearly all of those variables are removed from the equation. The crossovers will be suitably modified in due course.


Marco, the tweeters in yours look to be the same as the ones in the "UL" series which came out at the same time. this has a wider bandwidth than the HF1300, which needs a high crossover point plus a "super-tweeter" to aid it above 14KHz.


Interesting. That's what I suspected and was hoping for. Since the inclusion of a Coles unit to partner with a HF1300 isn't an option, the current driver compliment used on the XRs will do nicely.


Seriously Marco, (the Ditton 25's were pants but) the 33 and 44 would be marvellous for the garden (12" bass driver in the 44) as they go loud, are efficient IIRC and sound very good if got off the floor (most of these were plonked on the carpet with the inevitable results)

No doubt you're right, but I was sold on the remarkable 'showroom' condition of the 15XRs, and also the fact that they're the right size. Eventually these will be living in our lounge (fed from my system upstairs), so even I must respect domestic harmony in this instance, and the XRs will fit in just fine.

I'm already picturing sitting back during the winter months listening to great music whilst sipping a glass or three of St Émilion in front of the inglenook log fire we've just opened up in our lounge, which will end up looking something like this:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/441/interior2m.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/interior2m.jpg/)

Happy days! :cool:

Marco.

The Vinyl Adventure
14-06-2010, 15:07
Hamish:
Ever seen that trick where you pull the table cloth from under a full laid out dinner table? :)

HA!

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 15:09
Right. it was my understanding that the Ditton 15XR had the HF1300's in 'em.

No 'XR' had 'HF1000' tweeters




Marco, the tweeters in yours look to be the same as the ones in the "UL" series which came out at the same time.



Yes that applies to the 'UL6' & 'UL8' but the 'UL10' had HF2000 Tweeter




Seriously Marco, (the Ditton 25's were pants but) the 33 and 44 would be marvellous for the garden (12" bass driver in the 44) as they go loud, are efficient IIRC and sound very good if got off the floor (most of these were plonked on the carpet with the inevitable results)



I never liked the '25' they had a pair of HF1300' & 'HF2000'..'44' & '66' were the choice for a lot, i'm not a fan of the '66' they cause cracks in the plaster :)

spendorman
14-06-2010, 15:21
Just had a quick scan through all this and have not much to add to what Andr'e has said. The Original Ditton 15 (with the HF1300 tweeter) is not is not a world beater in sound quality. But one has to remember that is was designed for the "average system" all those years ago when amplifiers were not that powerful. What it does is make quite reasonable noises with not that many watts input.

As mentioned, the HF1300 does not go that high, but what it does it does quite well.

The extreme HF would be improved with something like a Coles 4001 supertweeter.

And yes, there are several versions of HF1300, differing magnet size and impedance. Possibly the best is the version that is called HF1400, has the biggest magnet and is used in some BBC Monitors and in the B&W DM3.

One point, the Ditton 15 can be a bit boomy in the bass, they were often turned upside down and that seemed to help a bit.

Here is the HF1300 with Coles 4001G in the B&W DM2 (I have no connection with the sale).

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150455093651&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

DSJR
14-06-2010, 16:08
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/Ditton15XRChoice.jpg

Marco, I was wrong about the tweeter, the HF1000 did indeed seem to be the main difference in the two models and I suspect the "BBC" version of the HF1300 may have been kept going while IMF, Rogers and Spendor needed it. By the late eighties it was quietly retired as Rogers had all but gone and Spendor totally revamped the SP1, yet kept the same or very similar balance, which is some doing IMO.

The main "thing" about the XR is that there is only a three element crossover - good in terms of efficiency, but bad when one or other of the drivers desperately needs to be sorted out. As long as you can live with it, the shape is indeed excellent for the job you need it to do, although I'd have probably suggested re-foamed Mission 700's instead (the grilles would have crumbled as well, but fresh could have been obtained and trimmed to size :)

Good luck...

Inglenook fireplaces? We had a sort-of one of those, with a pig-ugly cowling which rang like a bell. Wifey hated that house and has all but wiped the five years she suffered there from her mind...

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 16:18
I think the Missions Marco are refering to are the '700-2'... if i'm not wrong these didnt have foam surrounds & the grills were glued on.

Marco
14-06-2010, 16:21
Interesting stuff, chaps, so many thanks for your input. I'll certainly report back on what I hear when the Dittons arrive (probably by the end of the week) :)

I suspect that any bass boominess will be largely ameliorated with future crossover component upgrades, as I've heard that happen so often with vintage speakers once they've been modified with, for example, polyproplene caps instead of the electrolytics used.

Dave, does it say what the test system was used in the review?

Spendorman (what's your first name, btw?),

I've always liked the DM2s, but wondered why B&W used such small bass drivers for the size of the cabinets? :scratch:

They look so out of proportion - as if bass units at least 2" bigger could've been used instead!

Excuse my ignorance, but was there any reason why they didn't fit bigger bass units, instead of having what seems like so much 'empty space' under the grilles?

Marco.

Marco
14-06-2010, 16:22
I think the Missions Marco are refering to are the '700-2'... if i'm not wrong these didnt have foam surrounds & the grills were glued on.

100% correct! See the picture here I posted earlier :)

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 16:32
Interesting stuff, chaps, so many thanks for your input. I'll certainly report back on what I hear when the Dittons arrive (probably by the end of the week) :)

I suspect that any bass boominess will be largely ameliorated with future crossover component upgrades, as I've heard that happen so often with vintage speakers once they've been modified with, for example, polyproplene caps instead of the electrolytics used.

I've always liked the DM2s, but wondered why B&W used such small bass drivers for the size of the cabinets? :scratch:

They look so out of proportion - as if bass units at least 2" bigger could've been used instead!

Excuse my ignorance, but was there any reason why they didn't fit bigger bass units, instead of having what seems like so much 'empty space' inside the front baffles?

Marco.

I had B&W 'DM2a' only last year (Fully veneered 1" thick plywood baffles) they are a Transmission line speeka, 1/4 wave....You only have to look at any Transmission line to see the Units look out of proportion, actually i think the 'DM2' look very in proportion. There's 'DM2' & 'DM2a' ;)

DM2.II are a different speaker

Marco
14-06-2010, 16:39
These don't though:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150455093651&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123&afsrc=1

It looks as if you could almost get a 12" bass unit in there! ;)

Marco.

hifi_dave
14-06-2010, 16:46
You probably could but then the tweeter wouldn't go low enough to marry up.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 16:49
These don't though:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150455093651&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123&afsrc=1

It looks as if you could almost get a 12" bass unit in there! ;)

Marco.

You want the 'a' version dude.. Notice the HF switch on the rear & veneered baffle. The sausage shape port looks miles better aswell.. Notice the spec ticket that says DM2/II that is not a pair of Mk.'II'

http://www.audiocostruzioni.com/r_s/diffusori/diffusori/b&w-dm2/b&w-dm2.htm

The base units lost it' foam sock, it crumbles away as does with late 'DM4'

The Grand Wazoo
14-06-2010, 18:00
Apart from disliking (with a passion) how many modern speakers are voiced, especially budget varieties (horrible shouty, 'toppy' sounding things, designed to sound 'impressive' during a 5 minute listen at Richer Sounds),

I'm right with you there!



The beautifully pristine cabinets of the Celestions are made from solid wood (not the MDF shite used nowadays in budget designs),
.......are they not plywood then?


......have a solid teak veneer, and are so obviously not intensively mass-produced like your average Taiwan-derived bargain specials sold now in high street shops!

.....veneers tended to be thicker then too & help to stiffen the box


An unusual one for me too is that I usually prefer classic Jap 1970s transistor tuners to earlier valve-based ones. I like the Troughline, for example, but give me a lovely big 1970s Sansui, Sony or Yamaha any day!
I'm with you there too, as it happens!

quadsugdenman
14-06-2010, 18:15
An unusual one for me too is that I usually prefer classic Jap 1970s transistor tuners to earlier valve-based ones. I like the Troughline, for example, but give me a lovely big 1970s Sansui, Sony or Yamaha any day! Marco.

I know it sounds like hieracy but I am with you all the way on that one :):);)

DSJR
14-06-2010, 18:39
The DM2A was a good sounding box, but the BC1 annihilated it in terms of midrange quality. The KEF 104ab was far better in the bass as well, but all this was towards the end of the DM2's life and IMO B&W went right off the rails until the 801 came along some years later.

The foam surround/grille 700's were my favourite and were better than the HB1 IMO. The HB1 took over when Mission started to change their range and beggared them up I thought. A few years later, KEF sorted the Coda (III) and the HB1 sounded a bit artificial, especially with the flawed crossover they used, making the treble detach and "spit" along with the music.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 18:43
I'm right with you there!


.......are they not plywood then?



There chipboard

The Grand Wazoo
14-06-2010, 18:50
There chipboard

Solid Weetabix then!

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 18:51
Solid Weetabix then!



Nice chipboard tho. Id rather have chippy than some bull poo MDF(Dave R tought me this wurd)

Marco
14-06-2010, 18:52
Oh right..... Well, they're still undoubtedly much better built than modern budget speakers. Like you say, chippy's better than MDF! And let's not forget the solid teak veneer. Noted on the B&Ws dude :)

Chris and Garry,

I'm glad you guys are also fans of 1970s tranny tuners.... It's about the only area where I prefer SS to valves!

Garry, regarding bass 'boominess' with the 15XRs - the fact that they'll be used on tiles on a solid concrete floor (or outside in the open) should help :cool:

Marco.

Rare Bird
14-06-2010, 18:53
On the contrary i thought the 15XR slightly bass light!

Marco
14-06-2010, 18:55
Lol - I was going on what Garry said and what was written in the review Dave posted.....

I'll make my own mind up in that respect when I hear them :)

Marco.

Marco
17-06-2010, 11:36
Well, the Dittons arrived today, professionally packaged to within an inch of their lives, in the same 'showroom' condition as I saw them in the pictures.... My GOD these things are as MINTY MINT as MINTY MINT ever gets - they look absolutely gorgeous!! :eek:

But the best bit came when I fired them up on the end of my system..... Oh, f*ck me sideways with a big fat bargepole, these are laughably good!!! :lol:

This has got to be up there with one of the best £260 I've ever spent on hi-fi. Even just sat on the floor at the moment until I get suitable stands, they sound amazing for little stand-mount speakers. They have a massive sound for their size which is, big-boned, punchy, dynamic, crystal clear, musically expressive and just huge FUN!!

You can hear the pedigree and that these are extremely well-sorted high-quality designs from an era when loudspeakers were built properly by companies using their own cabinets, crossovers and top-notch drive units - and rather crucially, voiced by ear, not bloody computers. They are also voiced to sound real, and not like the horrid shouty sounding monstrosities so often sold these days at the budget end of the market.

Sound and build quality-wise I wouldn't hesitate to put them in the £800-1000 price bracket, no problem whatsoever, so at £260 they are an umitigated undisputable bargain.

In fact they're *so* good, once I've got some stands, I doubt I'll bother doing anything else to them.... It just goes to show how much pish is talked about on forums and elsewhere about these speakers and other vintage designs like them - all they need is some decent kit upstream and they positively sing, so it's just as I suspected, folks: don't blame the speakers, blame some of the equipment they were partnered with in those days!

Moi is a very happy bunny.... God bless Ebay! :cool:

Marco.

Ali Tait
17-06-2010, 12:21
Nice one Marco,look forward to hearing them sometime.

Rare Bird
17-06-2010, 12:22
In fact they're *so* good, once I've got some stands, I doubt I'll bother doing anything else to them.... It just goes to show how much pish is talked about on forums and elsewhere about these speakers and other vintage designs like them - all they need is some decent kit upstream and they positively sing, so it's just as I suspected, folks: don't blame the speakers, blame some of the equipment they were partnered with in those days!



Yes i've been called a prick for stating just that for so many years i forgotted. folk can stick modern speakers where the sun don't shine as far as i'm concerned regardless of how expensive they are :)

apanton1952
17-06-2010, 13:13
Marco

Always nice to get a good surprise, enjoy! :)

Marco
17-06-2010, 13:15
Cheers, Ali and Arthur - it is indeed! But it's also a little sad, as it makes one wonder just what on earth the loudspeaker industry been doing in the last 40 years! :doh:

The Celestions now join my vintage Tannoys as veritable examples of British loudspeaker design at its best.


Yes i've been called a prick for stating just that for so many years i forgotted...


I wouldn't worry about it, mate.

Idiots like that wouldn't know what good sound was if it jumped up and bit them on the arse. Leave them to wallow in the delusion of their biased preconceptions, chasing their tails trying to get a system that they're happy with, and let those of us with good ears and without such blinkers enjoy the best of what vintage hi-fi has to offer ;)

Next up, those SL-400 stands you recommended - then we'll really be cooking with gas!! :cool:

Marco.

Rare Bird
17-06-2010, 13:34
Next up, those SL-400 stands you recommended - then we'll really be cooking with gas!! :cool:



Awesome if you think SL-400 isnt too high..The Divine Audio i gave you link to a very fast dispatch & free postie..

Marco
17-06-2010, 13:55
I'll double check, dude, and do some measuring. A lot will depend on where my listening position is when I put them in the lounge. Outside it won't matter as much :)

Do you think open-frame types might be better?

Marco.

retro
17-06-2010, 14:21
.... My GOD these things are as MINTY MINT as MINTY MINT ever gets - they look absolutely gorgeous!! :eek:...

...They have a massive sound for their size which is, big-boned, punchy, dynamic, crystal clear, musically expressive and just huge FUN!!

You can hear the pedigree and that these are extremely well-sorted high-quality designs from an era when loudspeakers were built properly by companies using their own cabinets, crossovers and top-notch drive units. They are also voiced to sound real, and not like the horrid shouty sounding monstrosities so often sold these days at the budget end of the market.

Sound and build quality-wise I wouldn't hesitate to put them in the £800-1000 price bracket, no problem whatsoever, so at £260 they are an umitigated undisputable bargain....


Marco.


I'll just say this:
And such speakers you will listen outside.I can not believe. :eek:
That would be the same if I used my own ,in also MINT condition,Sansui AU-11000 to sound some disco club.

Must have been a lot of this :cool::cool:
:lolsign:

Regards,

Marco
17-06-2010, 14:27
Lol, Robert :eyebrows:

They'll be very well looked after, I assure you, when they're outside being used in the summer months - and let's remember that in the UK we're lucky if we get 4-5 weeks of good weather, so the rest of the time they'll be used indoors ;)

What I'm looking forward to is getting them set up properly downstairs in the lounge, as I've always wanted to hear what my system sounds like on a decent pair of speakers in a different room to where the equipment is.....

The fact is, one of the biggest sources of vibration detrimental to the sound of your gear is generated by the speakers themselves when pumping out music, so it'll be very interesting when that particular effect is removed from the equation! :)

Marco.

retro
17-06-2010, 14:38
Lol, Robert :eyebrows:

They'll be very well looked after, I assure you, when they're outside being used in the summer months - and let's remember that in the UK we're lucky if we get 4-5 weeks of good weather, so the rest of the time they'll be used indoors ;)



Now I was relieved.A little.

I am familiar with that,and since you are on the island humidity is...let say over 90 percent.
For your garden party buy yourself some allwether Tannoy,Bose... :)

Regards,

Rare Bird
17-06-2010, 14:43
I'll double check, dude, and do some measuring. A lot will depend on where my listening position is when I put them in the lounge. Outside it won't matter as much :)

Do you think open-frame types might be better?

Marco.

I always prefer open frames but i doubt it would make much different. Those Atacamas are amazingly sturdy quality built items

Marco
17-06-2010, 18:42
Atacamas now ordered - cheers for the recommendation, dude :)

Marco.

Marco
22-06-2010, 13:03
Well, the stands are installed now and the Celestions continue to AMAZE!

Jeezuz, now I can actually hear them properly I would accordingly revise my value estimate and, sonically, now put them quite easily in the £1200-1500 bracket....

In fact, they're so good, I'm thinking of taking them to Scalford Hall next year to demo as part of the AOS system!

I'm having so much fun at the moment listening to them inside and outside. Last night we had a barbecue and they were banging out Rammstein until 11pm - Del and were sat there with a huge grin on our chops, marvelling at how these little babies sound considering that they're not much younger we are (!) as waves of searing guitar riffs echoed out into the night sky......... :eek:

The only slightly sad thing is that one listen to these Dittons, on the end of a quality system, shows just what's wrong with the way the vast majority of sub £2k speakers these days are voiced......! :rolleyes:

As an aside, I note that the earlier Ditton 15s went for £207.99:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Celestion-Ditton-15-Speakers-Classic-British-Hi-Fi_W0QQitemZ270591749540QQihZ017QQcategoryZ14993QQ cmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m444QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3 DCRX%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DSI%252BUA%252BLM%252B LA%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D78281079459753711 53

....which clearly shows that there is a demand for these speakers. If you're looking for a pair of top-quality standmounts, and see a pair of 15XRs in good condition (and have an open-sounding, revealing system to make the most of their qualities), my advice is to snap 'em up tout-suite! :cool:

Marco.

DSJR
22-06-2010, 13:32
Marco, you're SO predictable... :) Hifi Dave and I were taking bets that you'd be raving about them 'cos you bought them so they have to be fantastic :D The need for expensive gear to drive them "properly" is a very lame excuse if you ask me :)

I'll stick with me memories of how horridly constricted and "nasal" they sounded by comparison with their mid seventies competition, let alone the far superior-voiced Ditton 22's, 33's and 44's, let alone DM4's and 2A's or KEF Chorales, which by then were in a class or two above.

Nah, if you want old-fashioned nasality, get some AR 7's or 5's or 6's. Now THEY'RE fun.....

Marco
22-06-2010, 13:56
LOL! Your memories are tainted then, matey, from using them with some cacky sounding crapola of the day! :lol: :lol:

It's got bugger all to do with me having bought them. Anyone with decent ears listening to them here would say the same thing. I'll remind you of that post when people hear them at Scalford Hall next year and rave about them ;)

Look, daftee, how many times have I been right so far with vintage stuff you've dissed, only for you to try it again on my recommendation and find that your, erm, 'memories' were a teensy wee bit inaccurate!

Anyway, I'm off soon to listen to that "poo" sounding L-07D!! :lolsign:

Marco.

DSJR
22-06-2010, 15:52
Have it your own way, but I was there demming them at the time and the 15XR didn't last long.. At least there's a comparative review to show my memories aren't bad (and I haven't based my opinion on reading this either)

Amazing how much of the "crapola" gear you refer to is selling for stupid money nowadays because it's "desirable..."

Marco
22-06-2010, 16:38
Have it my own way? Of course - it's me who's listening to them sounding absolutely fantastic (considering their size), not you! :lol:

Based on what I'm hearing now, whatever results were achieved with the 15XRs 30 years ago, either in magazine reviews and/or in the shop you worked in, were almost certainly not down to flaws in their design, which is clearly very good indeed.

So you can waffle away to the contrary until you're heart's content, shweety! You do realise that the more you go on about this, the more I'll be rubbing it in with glee when you're proved wrong (yet again)!! :ner:

Marco.

P.S Barry also heard my SPU at the weekend and thus has somewhat questioned your judgement of it here ;)

DSJR
22-06-2010, 17:21
You've bought a SPU?????

You can question my judgement all you like, but I still think you should get very friendly with people in the recording industry and try to visit a session or two to understand where I'm trying to come from on this. It doesn't mean you'll ditch your amps and speakers, but it may bring about a source re-appraisal perhaps..

That's my final word on the subject for now. All else is circular-arguments.

Marco
22-06-2010, 17:32
You've bought a SPU?????


Yes, dear boy - haven't you noticed? I swapped my 103SA for one :)

And it sounds so musically addictive, it's untrue!


You can question my judgement all you like, but I still think you should get very friendly with people in the recording industry and try to visit a session or two to understand where I'm trying to come from on this.


No doubt that would be intriguing... Perhaps you could introduce me to a few people?

It certainly wouldn't change my perspective on my system or the type of equipment I use, though.

I'm sure Anthony TD, who designed my valve amp as part of a pair for a studio for monitoring purposes (and who deals with people in studios all the time) would have a good handle though on where you're coming from ;)


It doesn't mean you'll ditch your amps and speakers, but it may bring about a source re-appraisal perhaps..


Why should it, exactly? With some of the crap recordings made in studios these days, in most cases the sound produced is hardly a benchmark I'd aspire to! :eyebrows:

Marco.

Rare Bird
23-06-2010, 13:14
I love most the 'Dittons' of this era. I have to admit i can't get on the the '25's... My favs are the '33' & '44'..

Dave:
I'm puzzled by the "nasal" remark!

DSJR
23-06-2010, 14:04
The 33 was a smaller and possibly bass-friendlier version of the 44 (I never compared them side by side as the 44 had gone by then IIRC).

The 25 was spoiled bu the two HF1300's interfering with each other and was the odd one out IMO.

As for the 66's, the models that replaced them and the beovox 5702 (a smaller "version" pretty well - oh yeah man..:D Wonderful things!!!!!!

Rare Bird
23-06-2010, 15:26
The 33 was a smaller and possibly bass-friendlier version of the 44 (I never compared them side by side as the 44 had gone by then IIRC).


:scratch: two totally different speakers..The '44' hadnt gone they went into Mk.II




As for the 66's, the models that replaced them and the beovox 5702 (a smaller "version" pretty well - oh yeah man..:D Wonderful things!!!!!!



You havin a laugh Dave with B&O ;) You mean the '662' with the celestions

DSJR
23-06-2010, 15:34
Look at the Beovox 5702's and see.. They sounded very good as I remember!

The 33 and 44 WERE two different models of course. I meant to suggest that the 33 came later but don't remember the 44mk2 - we had a lapse with Celestion until the SL6 came along, which was dull and so laid back originally. They were ground breaking though for future models I thought.

Beobloke
24-06-2010, 09:25
As an aside, I note that the earlier Ditton 15s went for £207.99:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Celestion-Ditton-15-Speakers-Classic-British-Hi-Fi_W0QQitemZ270591749540QQihZ017QQcategoryZ14993QQ cmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m444QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3 DCRX%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DSI%252BUA%252BLM%252B LA%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D78281079459753711 53



Christ almighty. I think someone put the decimal point too far to the right when they put their bid in!:stalks:


Yes, dear boy - haven't you noticed? I swapped my 103SA for one :)

And it sounds so musically addictive, it's untrue!



Way to go Marco - you're progressing in cartridge terms then!

At this rate of progress, I hereby predict you'll "discover" the Shure V15 in about three years time.......;)

Marco
24-06-2010, 09:58
:lolsign:

Wot? They're way too modern, daftee!

The Dittons do sound remarkably good, though. I'm sure if you heard them here, you'd agree :)

Marco.

Rare Bird
24-06-2010, 13:09
The Dittons do sound remarkably good



When you get a chance have a look inside you'll see how simple the crossover is :)

Marco
24-06-2010, 13:29
Ah, now that's interesting, and must go some way to explaining how 'wide-open' and uncoloured they sound.....

What's the best way in, as they're a sealed box - pop the bass drivers out and fumble inside? :)

Oi loikes a little fumble inside....... :eyebrows:

Marco.

Rare Bird
24-06-2010, 13:35
Ah, now that's interesting, and must go some way to explaining how 'wide-open' and uncoloured they sound.....

What's the best way in, as they're a sealed box - pop the bass drivers out and fumble inside? :)

Oi loikes a little fumble inside....... :eyebrows:

Marco.

Through the ABR unit at the bottom, don't worry it's not an electrical unit so no terminals, you'll be able to see it from there

Marco
24-06-2010, 14:43
Ok, dude, noted.... Curiosity will probably get the better of me, anyway, in terms of possible cap upgrades, etc :)

Marco.

Rare Bird
24-06-2010, 14:49
Only one cap so you can afford a good un..you need someone with an inductance meter for the inductor values..

Marco
24-06-2010, 14:57
One cap? That's handy!


you need someone with an inductance meter values for the inductors..


Oh, I'm sure I know a man with a plan ;)

Marco.

Marco
24-06-2010, 15:06
Cheers for the link, dude - interesting! I shall remember that for future reference :)

Marco.

tommy6206
16-11-2010, 11:20
Hi Marco
How are the celestion ditton 15's comeing along.The reason I ask is I just won a pair on the bay that look to be in very good condition with some mods already done to them.Cant wait to get them and try them out..Here a link see what you think..http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120647556982&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

ourdogmax
16-11-2010, 12:28
Christ, I have a pair of MK1's on here I can't give away. :scratch:

tommy6206
16-11-2010, 12:34
I know Darrel but your along way from me.But if you could box them up and send I would gladly pay shipping fee's

Marco
16-11-2010, 13:04
Hi Gary,


Hi Marco
How are the celestion ditton 15's comeing along.The reason I ask is I just won a pair on the bay that look to be in very good condition with some mods already done to them.Cant wait to get them and try them out..Here a link see what you think..http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120647556982&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Gosh you got those for a good price, although I probably paid too much for mine (in terms of the going rate)! :eyebrows:

I haven't modified them yet (that's in the pipeline for early next year), but they're used most days in the lounge, and as I've said, sound superb for 30-odd year old stand-mount speakers.

They certainly show what's wrong with most affordable modern designs (and sometimes even more expensive ones) in terms of how they are voiced, which is normally with an emphasis on the upper mid and top end, giving a superficially 'pumped up' and 'exciting' sound, but one which is ultimately fatiguing; and I would argue, fundamentally less natural and realistic.

The Celestions (on the end of my main system) don't in any way sound 'old fashioned' or shut in (far from it) just musical sounding and addictive to listen to, with very good (tight & tuneful), fairly extended, bass for their size.

The Ditton 15s you've won are slightly different from mine, as on the ones I have there are no logos on the ABR units, nor any tweeter level adjusters.

I hope you like 'em, so keep us posted! :cool:

Marco.

DSJR
16-11-2010, 16:46
They look like very late ones, but I think the tweeter level control may just be an add-on, as I don't remember any other Celestions from this period having them.

I'm in two minds about bi-wiring, but cannot sit totally on either fence, as I've heard it make no difference yet some speakers the difference was palpable (Linn Kabers needed it to work at all due to back emf feeding into the mid driver of the bass unit was flexed).

Good luck with 'em.

tommy6206
16-11-2010, 17:42
Hi Thanks for the replies lads.Yes they have been modded tweeter control added and bi-wire capable.I have just got off the phone with the chap and are as good as pictures make them out to be.Its only stickers on the abr units but look cool enough.They should be here Thursday or Friday so i might have a asbo by the weekend lol.I'm hoping they will sound good with my old technics amp A900MK2 and some black stuff on the 1210mk11.will let you know how i get on..

Jac Hawk
16-11-2010, 22:48
Ok guys I just picked these up tonight
http://i.ebayimg.com/24/!B77OMI!EWk~$(KGrHqF,!ksEy+ioZl6pBM1rTv!2,!~~_12.J PG
A pair of Castle Kendal II, £26.50 Ebay
now I know nothing about castle speakers, but the seller was close and i was a bit bored on sunday so there you go.

Anyway to kick off they're bigger than i thought and because they are ported, they overwhelm my small'ish lounge but i think they may be better upstairs, the drivers are in good visible condition, as are the crossovers, the cabs need some work but thankfully castle seem to use very thick veneers so i cant see any real problem there.

i would just like to get some opinions the best ways to use them, mod, etc. like i say i've never really took much notice of Castle speakers so would love some advice.

1 thing, they have no grills, the guy i got them off said they had foam grills when new, but they got lost of broke, i would like grills on them if i'm going to have em in the house, so where can i get them from, or make some

Reid Malenfant
16-11-2010, 22:58
The original grills were open cell foam, you aren't going to find them in a hurry :rolleyes:

They should sound excellent if fully working, your £20 odd was well worth spending :eyebrows: Get ready for the surprise of your life, Castles are very good speakers indeed... I just hope the tweeters are working, the rest shouldn't be a problem ;)

Jac Hawk
16-11-2010, 23:31
tweeters are fine and yes they do sound good, just taken one apart and found a nice simple crossover as well as a rather large dead spider, poor bugger probably crawled in when they were made.

Do you think a set of hardboard or thin MDF grill frames with acoustic fabric covers would be ok, and also be able to be velcroed on the the speaker front's

Reid Malenfant
17-11-2010, 11:52
tweeters are fine and yes they do sound good, just taken one apart and found a nice simple crossover as well as a rather large dead spider, poor bugger probably crawled in when they were made.

Do you think a set of hardboard or thin MDF grill frames with acoustic fabric covers would be ok, and also be able to be velcroed on the the speaker front's
All good news :) The spider probably crawled in through the port :eyebrows:

Yes i don't see why you can't make some grills as you describe, just leave as much space around the drivers as possible so you don't get reflections from the edge of the wood. If you happen to have a branch of John Lewis near you, they sell some very acousticly transparent material. Not 100% sure on the name of the stuff but Polyester Jersey or somesuch name rings a bell :scratch:

Jac Hawk
17-11-2010, 21:08
i'm still a bit worried that the speakers will still be a little boomy even upstairs, is there any way this can be reduced, maybe by filling the void inside the cab with loose filling? any suggestions

DSJR
17-11-2010, 21:12
Castles tended to have a smooth and if anything, slightly dry presentation, so you may not find the need to damp the bass further except possibly lining the port if necessary to minimise "chuffing."

Marco
17-11-2010, 21:13
i'm still a bit worried that the speakers will still be a little boomy even upstairs, is there any way this can be reduced, maybe by filling the void inside the cab with loose filling? any suggestions


Hi Mike,

Unless you have a really bad room and/or an amp with the grip of a damp piece of lettuce, bass boom won't be an issue with the Dittons ;)

Put them on a good pair of stands (I use Atacamas) away from side walls and use them with 'clean' sounding speaker cables (I use Van Damme) and you'll be away nicely! :cool:

Marco.

Jac Hawk
17-11-2010, 21:25
Castles tended to have a smooth and if anything, slightly dry presentation, so you may not find the need to damp the bass further except possibly lining the port if necessary to minimise "chuffing."
and just how would do that, what would i use?

Marco
17-11-2010, 22:17
Lol - I've just realised that you were talking about the Castles not the Dittons, sorry, Mike! :doh:

Marco.

Jac Hawk
17-11-2010, 23:22
Lol - I've just realised that you were talking about the Castles not the Dittons, sorry, Mike! :doh:

Marco.

Castles, dittons they're all speakers to me mate.

I would apreciate any advice on how to control the bass though, dave said to line the bass ports, but i'm not sure how to do it or what to use.

Also there are some marks on the cabs, not scratches but more like someone has been using them as a table to draw on, so the veneers are "bruised" i think that's the correct term, anyway, i'd also like some sugestions if anyone has any on how to lift these marks, i have a feeling it may be possible with a hot steam iron and a towel but i'm not sure and i don't want to damage the cabs anymore than needs be...

Ian Walker
17-11-2010, 23:39
Castles, dittons they're all speakers to me mate.

I would apreciate any advice on how to control the bass though, dave said to line the bass ports, but i'm not sure how to do it or what to use.

Also there are some marks on the cabs, not scratches but more like someone has been using them as a table to draw on, so the veneers are "bruised" i think that's the correct term, anyway, i'd also like some sugestions if anyone has any on how to lift these marks, i have a feeling it may be possible with a hot steam iron and a towel but i'm not sure and i don't want to damage the cabs anymore than needs be...

Try the drinking straw trick Mike...used to work for me with Castle Richmonds:)

Ian.

Jac Hawk
18-11-2010, 00:25
Try the drinking straw trick Mike...used to work for me with Castle Richmonds:)

Ian.

Bloody hell i just got an IM off chris, he said someone was bound to come up with the straw trick, great minds and all that...

tommy6206
19-11-2010, 21:09
Well my Celestion ditton 15xr's turned up today at 6pm.Thought i was going to have to wait until Monday.Anyway they arrived well packed and as described in the add.after unpacking them it was time to hook these babies up ans see what all the fuss is about.well I wasn't disappointed they sounded very crisp clean and detailed.As for some of the comments Ive read on boomy bass well no sign of it after a couple hour of playing various different types of music.In fact If any thing they sounded a little bass shy on some tracks.That maybe down to the still being on the floor,I need to get some stands for them and see what happens.Am I happy ,You bet I am there keepers.

StanleyB
19-11-2010, 21:36
In fact If any thing they sounded a little bass shy on some tracks.
Try different speaker placements. The passive radiators are a bit finicky with their positioning.

Marco
19-11-2010, 21:36
Nice one, Gary. They're not too shabby, are they? ;)

Anyway, keep us posted how you get on - decent stands are a must. I use these Atacamas (but I see the listing has now ended):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Atacama-SL400-Speaker-Stands-Black-/390140049293?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_EquipmentStands_SM&hash=item5ad628b78d&afsrc=1

I'm sure you'll be able to get something similar, though :)

Marco.

Jac Hawk
19-11-2010, 22:38
Well my Celestion ditton 15xr's turned up today at 6pm.Thought i was going to have to wait until Monday.Anyway they arrived well packed and as described in the add.after unpacking them it was time to hook these babies up ans see what all the fuss is about.well I wasn't disappointed they sounded very crisp clean and detailed.As for some of the comments Ive read on boomy bass well no sign of it after a couple hour of playing various different types of music.In fact If any thing they sounded a little bass shy on some tracks.That maybe down to the still being on the floor,I need to get some stands for them and see what happens.Am I happy ,You bet I am there keepers.
You Sound like a happy punter..

You know when people talk about stereo equipment, or give an opinion, there are many other factors to take into acount, i.e. room size, furnishings, floor type, placement........ the list goes on and on, and then you have personal taste.

So until you hear a piece of kit for yourself in your lounge you have to take other folks opinions as mearly a guide.

In the past your hifi dealer used to have loan equipment, that they would let you use in your home to see how it sounded which was great, it's been a while since i've bought any new kit, i guess they have there own audition rooms now.

Anyway i'm pleased you like um, they do look sweet.

tommy6206
20-11-2010, 16:02
Nice one, Gary. They're not too shabby, are they? ;)

Anyway, keep us posted how you get on - decent stands are a must. I use these Atacama's (but I see the listing has now ended):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Atacama-SL400-Speaker-Stands-Black-/390140049293?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_EquipmentStands_SM&hash=item5ad628b78d&afsrc=1

I'm sure you'll be able to get something similar, though :)

Marco.

Well i got myself sorted with a set of Atacama stands for £32 inc of postage and should be here early next week. Also went into town and got more speaker cable.I got them wired up to my techincs A900 mk2 amp with a set of Acoustic research 112's I picked up at the local recycling centre for £5 a couple weeks ago, I did have to change the foam surrounds and now sound really sweet.Now to sit back and spin some of the black stuff :cool:

Jac Hawk
20-11-2010, 17:57
Ok guys, i need a little more advice with regards to the Castle Kendal II speakers i got of ebay.

At the moment they are both in bits in my work room, the cab's are comming on a treat and, i'll post some before and after shots when they are both finished. Both sets of drives are fine and there are no probs with the crossovers eather, however i've noticed that the cable from the crossover to the drives is different, i.e. the woofer has different (thicker) cable than the tweeter.
is it worth replacing the connecting cables, and if so are there any suggestions as to a good cable to use.

The Grand Wazoo
20-11-2010, 18:01
Use the some speaker cable - the same type as you use between amp and speakers. If you're soldering to make the connections, when you do the tweeters, you should be quick & not overheat them.

Rare Bird
20-11-2010, 19:36
Ok guys, i need a little more advice with regards to the Castle Kendal II speakers i got of ebay.



What do you want to know! I've owned every single model Castle Acoustics made right upto the late '80's. I've been to the old factory more times than i can remember ;)

Jac Hawk
20-11-2010, 20:44
What do you want to know! I've owned every single model Castle Acoustics made right upto the late '80's. I've been to the old factory more times than i can remember ;)

whats the best way to reduce bass on the kendal II, they're ported so in my room they are a little too bassy

Rare Bird
20-11-2010, 21:05
whats the best way to reduce bass on the kendal II, they're ported so in my room they are a little too bassy

Pull em out from corners if they are..You could try a bit of foam in the reflex port

tommy6206
25-11-2010, 12:22
Well my Atacama stands arrived yesterday and what a difference they make.I think they are the SE20.Now should I put spike on the bottom and do I fix speakers to the top or use isolation pads I'm open to suggestions and advice as never use stands before..

Rare Bird
25-11-2010, 13:45
Yes you want spikes,fit the spikes but dont tighten the nuts, put them in the postion best suits you.., level em with a small spirit level, then tighten nut, four equal blobs of blue tack ontop of the stands, speakers ontop

tommy6206
25-11-2010, 13:57
Thanks Andre,I also forgot should I fill the stands with sand..

Rare Bird
25-11-2010, 14:18
Thanks Andre,I also forgot should I fill the stands with sand..

If you can, there should be some small bags with them to put inside the Column to fill with sand . Your best using the dry sand from the early learning centre..

If you see any 'SE12' Gary let me know

tommy6206
25-11-2010, 14:29
If you can, there should be some small bags with them to put inside the Column to fill with sand . Your best using the dry sand from the early learning centre..

If you see any 'SE12' Gary let me know

Ok will do. Found the blue tac and spikes ordered from Atacama £7 odd a set of 8.They really have made a difference in the sound well pleased.
Just need some thing for the AR112's there still on the floor in front of the celestion 15's

Rare Bird
25-11-2010, 14:47
Ok will do. Found the blue tac and spikes ordered from Atacama £7 odd a set of 8.They really have made a difference in the sound well pleased.
Just need some thing for the AR112's there still on the floor in front of the celestion 15's

If the blu tac is still in its new unused flat state might be best cutting equal squares off to ensure better level between the four pieces instead of making balls.If you dont wanna mess about with blu tack Atacama make Gel pads that may be better idea

DSJR
25-11-2010, 15:25
If your speakers have real wood veneers, Blu-Tac is the worst thing you can use on top of the stands, as it gets in the grain and won't come out, especially after a few years once it's dried out.

We had great success with little clear plastic "bump-on" style feet from RS (www.rswww.com) - part number 248-451. They're not soft enough to fully decouple the boxes from the stands, yet protect speaker veneers, especially on demo speakers that were hoiked around all over the place. I couldn't tell the different between a speaker with these feet on compared to those cabinet-killing top spikes offered many years ago.

Rare Bird
25-11-2010, 17:14
I actually have those on my target stands as the white plastic inserts used to lock together the matching stands (that i dont use) in the misssion's cabs slightly stand pround underside..I also use those tiny mounds for my slim Hard drive cases & HRT Streamer so they don't move about.If Gary wants to use those yes their a good idea but i wouldnt use them generally with my speakers, just all i had at hand at the time but never bothered changing..I also use them tiny things on Granite platforms to stop scratching the surface their sat on, quite universal things really

Jac Hawk
25-11-2010, 21:10
Well my Atacama stands arrived yesterday and what a difference they make.I think they are the SE20.Now should I put spike on the bottom and do I fix speakers to the top or use isolation pads I'm open to suggestions and advice as never use stands before..

Great stands, i have a set of se24's that i picked up on ebay for £15, and you're right, they do make a big difference. they can be a little fiddly to set up, especially getting the spikes at the right hight and level, but take your time and you'll be ok, btw i used blutac on the tops of my stands, and it works great, if you're bothered about damaging the cab's finish then i would suggest sticking 4 bits of masking tape on the speaker bottoms where the blutac will be.

P.S. i need a set of se12's too

Beobloke
26-11-2010, 10:53
Personally I'd go with Atacama's gel pads. I have had several pairs of speakers where Blu-tac has ripped for squares of the veneer off and the RS style sticky pads never seemed to like sticking to the top plates of my Atacama Nexus 6s whenever I tried them! When I changed to SL600s, I used the gel pads and they're still there as firm as anything a year or two on.

Wakefield Turntables
23-12-2010, 20:19
Marco,

I too have a pair of 15XR's that I picked up for £30 from a local 'boot sale! I intend to use these in a second system that I'm putting togther which is going to be valve based. Have you any idea what modification you'd like to do to your 15's? Me, personally, I'll probably be replacing the binding posts, internally re-wiring with pure silver cable (cotton dialectic), the foam looks quite good in mine so i'll keep that. Probably re-build the cross-over.

Marco
23-12-2010, 20:33
Hi Andrew,

Ditto! Perhaps we should compare notes during the process? I won't be starting my project though until the New Year :)

Marco.

Wakefield Turntables
23-12-2010, 20:55
Any ideas what CAPS your going to use in the cross-over, or if your even going to get a newer replacement? I'm on the look out for some cheap speaker stands. I'll probably looking around cash-generators to see if I can nab a bargain over the next few weeks. What sort of improvements did you notice when you put them on the stands. I must admit that mine have been in my second system (which is a complete Quad 77 setup) sitting on the floor. I have two differing speaker cables to try out Nordost SPM reference, or QED silver. I still don't know whether I'm going to bi-amp modify them yet!! There are a few posts on the net on how to modify them but I've not found anyone reportedly bi-amping them and reporting on the outcome.

Marco
23-12-2010, 22:20
Hi Andrew,

I'll probably use my tried and trusted favs: Clarity Cap MRs (which I used to great effect in the Tannoys), providing I can get the right values :)

I'll also fit some silver WBT speaker terminals and rewire them internally with VDH CS Hybrid cable, again as I did with the Tannoys, and also upgrade the inductors with Mundorfs.

The crossovers in question:


http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9591/celestiondittoncrossove.jpg (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/celestiondittoncrossove.jpg/)


Marco.

Jac Hawk
24-12-2010, 02:16
Any ideas what CAPS your going to use in the cross-over, or if your even going to get a newer replacement? I'm on the look out for some cheap speaker stands. I'll probably looking around cash-generators to see if I can nab a bargain over the next few weeks. What sort of improvements did you notice when you put them on the stands. I must admit that mine have been in my second system (which is a complete Quad 77 setup) sitting on the floor. I have two differing speaker cables to try out Nordost SPM reference, or QED silver. I still don't know whether I'm going to bi-amp modify them yet!! There are a few posts on the net on how to modify them but I've not found anyone reportedly bi-amping them and reporting on the outcome.

I recently referbed a set of Castle Kendal II's, i used Ansar polyprop caps as suggested by Andre and they made a huge difference, in my opinion, i would rewire using the same cable as you use to connect to the amp, once again i did this as a suggestion of another member, and to be frank i did it cos it made sense, and unless there is something wrong with the binding posts, i would save your money.

Wakefield Turntables
24-12-2010, 11:48
I recently referbed a set of Castle Kendal II's, i used Ansar polyprop caps as suggested by Andre and they made a huge difference, in my opinion, i would rewire using the same cable as you use to connect to the amp, once again i did this as a suggestion of another member, and to be frank i did it cos it made sense, and unless there is something wrong with the binding posts, i would save your money.

Many thanks guys for the options regarding the CAPS. I intend keeping the 15's so I'd like to get the best parts for the job. I'm in a quandry as to which cable to use. This second system is going to be used for mainly jazz, a bit of classical and maybe accoustic stuff. I have 3 options, Nordost SPM reference, Make my own out of 99.9999% pure silver with cotton dialetic + EMI + RFI shielding, or good old QED which I used to use in my all Quad set-up, this later got replaced with the SPM reference. My old "Reference" setup included the Michell technoarm and Valhalla interconnects, and boy could I tell I had the silver in that set-up screechingly high treble!! I mainly listen to thrash, prog, heavy metal/rock. I'm now all Cu in the "reference" system and I'm really enjoying the noise it's making, perhaps even more when I get Marco's SR5 power supply at the end of January :eek:. One final question, what sort of height would you use the 15's at??? I'm looking for a cheapo pair of stands to put them on.

Marco
24-12-2010, 12:41
perhaps even more when I get Marco's SR5 power supply at the end of January...


Hahahaha - dream on... That one's a keeper! :eek: :lol:

Marco.

Rare Bird
24-12-2010, 13:13
I recently referbed a set of Castle Kendal II's, i used Ansar polyprop caps as suggested by Andre and they made a huge difference, in my opinion

:pat:

Be an idea to get shut of those old inductors at some point, i used to use RATA Iron Cores when they were available as i thought them the best Inductor i used at that time, i would now opt for Foil inductors..As for x-over power resistors, i've always used Caddock 'MP930' films..Internal speaker wiring:I've never been a fan of Ag platted Cu wire & was more than happy using Kimber 'TCSS' & 'TCX' i still do.High quality Binding posts such as WBT or J.A.Michell do make a difference aswell.I've always like the Michell amp & speaker posts

Jac Hawk
24-12-2010, 15:29
One final question, what sort of height would you use the 15's at??? I'm looking for a cheapo pair of stands to put them on.

The rule of thumb is to get the tweeter/midrange as close to ear height listening position as possibe, so it depends how low you sit, also i have found with my MS45Ti's which i guess are roughly the same size, that having them too low seems to neutralize the bass.

I would say the lowest stands to use would be about 40cm up to about 55cm

DSJR
24-12-2010, 18:55
That 'orrible black cap HAS to go and tbh, any polyprop cap of the correct rating will be a dramatic improvement (I've done it with other speakers with the same type of cap - these were in vast use in UK made speakers back then.

As for wiring, I really wouldn't go mad, as the inherant distortions in the drive units, combined with dispersion issues caused by the rebated baffle would mask much of the finer points of fancy silver wires. hey, I'm not being over-critical, just trying to put a little perspective in here..

Marco
24-12-2010, 20:07
Indeed, Dave, but I've got a shed-load of the VDH stuff left over that I used to rewire the Tannoys with, so as it's there anyway, I may as well use it :)

The good thing is that the crossovers are simple, and not overly complicated, which is probably one of the reasons why the Celestions sound so good, even before they've been modified.

Once I get a couple of Clarity Cap MRs in there, and some nice Mundorf Air Core Foil Coil inductors, and pop on some WBT terminals - they're gonna rock da house :gig:

Hopefully, I'll get the work done in time for taking the Celestions to Scalford Hall! :cool:

Marco.

Reid Malenfant
24-12-2010, 20:13
Once I get a couple of Clarity Cap MRs in there, and some nice Mundorf Air Core Foil Coil inductors, and pop on some WBT terminals - they're gonna rock da house :gig:
As i have mentioned on a few occasions, make sure that the inductors you buy have the same DC resistance as the original Celestion offerings or you'll mess up the bass loading due to damping factor changes ;)

The same goes for the one accross the tweeter, it's not just inductive reactance that counts :)

DSJR
24-12-2010, 20:15
What's wrong with the original inductors?

Dave Hewitt
24-12-2010, 20:23
I'll vouch for what Marc says regarding the inductors,I fitted some foil ones to my impulse speakers and lost all the bass.The foil ones were a different resistance to the originals and were not suitable.
Disco Dave.;)

Marco
24-12-2010, 20:25
What's wrong with the original inductors?


Probably not much, but I suspect that they could be bettered. Component technology has moved on somewhat since the 70s - in audio, it's about the only thing that has!

I'll follow Mark's advice though (regarding DC resistance) and then pop the Mundorfs in last, so I can analyse their effect in isolation :)

Remember that when I modify gear, I go for all-out sonic maximisation. I don't do things by halves!! ;)

Marco.

Marco
24-12-2010, 20:30
I'll vouch for what Marc says regarding the inductors,I fitted some foil ones to my impulse speakers and lost all the bass.The foil ones were a different resistance to the originals and were not suitable.


Indeed, Dave. We didn't have that problem though with my Tannoys :)

It'll be t'other Dave and you doing the necessary, anyway - a sesh to have at mine sometime in Feb, perhaps? :cool:

Marco.

Rare Bird
24-12-2010, 21:36
What's wrong with the original inductors?

Your having a laugh right Dave? :)

DSJR
25-12-2010, 00:21
No. The Ditton 15XR's are low budget boxes with low tech drivers inside and with problems at the crossover point as designed. I doubt ANY fancy bits will cure this*, as I doubt the drivers have the bandwidth to accomplish this. Still, it'll give 'em summat to do during the winter months and it's pocket money to these people :)

* - I await to be proved wrong (again) :lol:

Marco
25-12-2010, 00:46
"Low budget boxes with low tech drivers inside", they may be, Dave, but that doesn't seem to stop them from sounding superb (on the end of a top-notch system - not the pish they would've originally been used with 40 years ago ;)), and rather better than most modern designs I've heard at many times their price............

And when I've finished upgrading the crossovers, they'll be even better - so prepare to be stunned at Scalford Hall and made to EAT your words (yet again)!! :eyebrows: :ner:

Marco.

Jac Hawk
25-12-2010, 00:47
No. The Ditton 15XR's are low budget boxes with low tech drivers inside
They seem to hold their value well though especially on eBay.

Reid Malenfant
25-12-2010, 12:45
Just bagged myself the rarer half of the DCS kit i wanted on fleabay the Purcell upsampler :) Oddly it was also for sale on AudioGon but at about £400 more expensive :scratch: :mental:

Very strange indeed, but i'm not complaining :lol: Long live fleabay :smoking:

What a find & on Christmas day to :eyebrows:

Jac Hawk
01-01-2011, 12:36
Just got these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250748680522&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT on eBAY, I paid £40 for them, so i may have paid a bit too much but they will match my MS45Ti's perfectly. A question though, my speakers have threaded bolt holes in the bottoms, so did or do mordaunt short stick to a pattern i.e. will the holes in the stands match my speakers, and secondly if they do is bolting them on a better idea than using gel pads.

Rare Bird
01-01-2011, 12:55
Just got these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250748680522&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT on eBAY, I paid £40 for them, so i may have paid a bit too much but they will match my MS45Ti's perfectly. A question though, my speakers have threaded bolt holes in the bottoms, so did or do mordaunt short stick to a pattern i.e. will the holes in the stands match my speakers, and secondly if they do is bolting them on a better idea than using gel pads.

The missions i use at the mo have the ability to be fixed to the matching stands, i don't use that facility.I think the Gel pads would be a good idea.

Mothman
02-01-2011, 18:34
Just won these Bolivar speakers http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320635842944&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:GB:1123 and hope to pick them up tomorrow. From what I can find on the web they were made by an offshoot of JBL\Harmen in the late 70's. I expect that at the very least the woofers will need new foam surrounds but was wondering if anyone ever had experienced them and if they are worth restoring?

DSJR
02-01-2011, 20:59
If they're working, you'll LOVE them. they can sound incredibly good - very efficient, not severely coloured and such FUN :lol:

Not sure of the bass units were foamed, but if they are and need doing, I'd get 'em to Wembley Loudspeakers for a re-furb. Crossover caps too if necessary.

You can keep your bloomin' Ditton 15's, THESE were where fun was at in the late seventies - of yes indeedy :gig:

Rare Bird
02-01-2011, 21:02
Never heard of em :scratch:

Mothman
03-01-2011, 12:34
Never heard of em :scratch:

Me neither Andre. This is about the most info I can find

http://robol.com/tiki-index.php?page=Bolivar+Speaker+Works&highlight=foo

http://robol.com/tiki-index.php?page=Bolivar+125

Macca
03-01-2011, 12:42
Me neither Andre. This is about the most info I can find

http://robol.com/tiki-index.php?page=Bolivar+Speaker+Works&highlight=foo

http://robol.com/tiki-index.php?page=Bolivar+125

According to the second link they have paper cone tweeters. Not good IME:(

DSJR
03-01-2011, 13:01
For fear of sarcy comments from Marco, I have some old HiFi Choices with reviews in.............. :)

Don't worry about cone tweeters, there's a dome in the middle (:lol:) and they can be pretty well behaved if done right (as a full crossover re-imagining did on some L100's I read about)

Macca
03-01-2011, 13:06
Don't worry about cone tweeters, there's a dome in the middle (:lol:) and they can be pretty well behaved if done right)

Only if you don't want/can't hear any top:lol:

Mothman
03-01-2011, 13:43
According to the second link they have paper cone tweeters. Not good IME:(

Martin I have absolutely zero expectations, but at 99p felt they were worth a look, out of curiosity if nothing else.

Macca
03-01-2011, 13:48
Martin I have absolutely zero expectations, but at 99p felt they were worth a look, out of curiosity if nothing else.

Yes for free effectively so what is the harm? Just recalling my own experiences with some very old Toshiba 'speakers - I never knew paper cone tweeters existed until then.

Anyway if the bass drivers and cabs are okay you could always slot in some new plastic dome tweeters for about a tenner.:)

Mothman
04-01-2011, 20:38
Picked the Bolivar's up today and and have to say they look alright:). As expected the foam surrounds on the woofers have long since gone west but other than a couple of small dings in one of the cabinets they look to be in reasonably original shape, MUCH heavier than expected for cheap speakers and certainly far too good to be dumped. Now just need to decide whether to have a go at refoaming the surrounds myself or pay to get them done professionaly. I've never tried this before and apparently the voice coils need shimming which sounds tricky, however I'm loathed to spent too much on them as their relative obscurity means I am unlikely to recoup any money spent if I were to sell.

As these speakers appear fairly uncommon I'll try and take some pics when I get chance and put them in a seperate thread as a point of reference.

Jac Hawk
04-01-2011, 20:46
Picked the Bolivar's up today and and have to say they look alright:). As expected the foam surrounds on the woofers have long since gone west but other than a couple of small dings in one of the cabinets they look to be in reasonably original shape, MUCH heavier than expected for cheap speakers and certainly far too good to be dumped. Now just need to decide whether to have a go at refoaming the surrounds myself or pay to get them done professionaly. I've never tried this before and apparently the voice coils need shimming which sounds tricky, however I'm loathed to spent too much on them as their relative obscurity means I am unlikely to recoup any money spent if I were to sell.

As these speakers appear fairly uncommon I'll try and take some pics when I get chance and put them in a seperate thread as a point of reference.

Have a look

Uao7wSRU8ms

Beobloke
05-01-2011, 13:22
Hmmm. I really would not recommend carrying out a re-foam without shimming the voice coil. It is only a simple matter of cutting off the dust cap and sticking some plastic shims down the gap between the coil and pole plate to hold the cone central whilst everything dries.

NewFoam in the USA (who I usually use for new surrounds) sell complete kits that include surrounds, dust caps, glue and shims and even Good Hi-Fi themselves sell dust caps, so I wouldn't ever take the risk of not shimming, personally.

Analog Addict
05-01-2011, 16:00
I refoamed a pair of 12" infinity bass drivers last year and decided not to cut off the dust caps but to use an alternative method of centralizing the voice coil:

Once I had cleaned off all the old surround, I bonded the new foam to the speaker cone and allowed the joints to dry. Once dry, I marked the outer circumference of the foam surround at four points 90 degrees apart. I then rocked the cone to the limit of travel in the two planes and made corresponding marks on the basket and then split the difference and made four central lines, again on the basket. It was then a simple case of aligning the marks on the surround with those four lines. The speakers work fine at all volume levels and no voice coil rub.

Incidentally I found the best way to clamp up surround to speaker cone and to basket was using modern plastic clothes pegs with flat jaws, but obviously it has to be done one joint at a time.:)

MartinT
05-01-2011, 17:19
I re-foamed a pair of JBL L100-T 12" bass drivers last year and was reluctant to cut the dust caps off because they were perfect, but it really is the best way to shim the voice coil centrally in the gap. The whole process took about three hours and was very successful. The speakers used to be mine but my friend loves them and we revitalised them in one enjoyable afternoon. Well worth the effort.

MartinT
05-01-2011, 17:21
I have just taken delivery of this:

http://pixhost.info/avaxhome/5d/ec/000dec5d_medium.jpeg

It's an original direct cut. Guess what I'll be playing next? :)

DSJR
05-01-2011, 17:31
I've got the meOOOOOOsic in meh....

MartinT
05-01-2011, 17:53
I've got the meOOOOOOsic in meh....

LOL! But the IMPACT of this landmark hasn't diminished one bit.

Barry
05-01-2011, 18:36
I have just taken delivery of this:

http://pixhost.info/avaxhome/5d/ec/000dec5d_medium.jpeg

It's an original direct cut. Guess what I'll be playing next? :)

I have a copy of this direct cut. Too orchestrated for my tastes BUT it does have a presence that one rarely gets with conventional pressings. :)

MartinT
05-01-2011, 21:37
I have a copy of this direct cut. Too orchestrated for my tastes BUT it does have a presence that one rarely gets with conventional pressings. :)

As Sheffield Labs go, I prefer my copy of James Newton Howard & Friends. The sound is fantastic and the drums the best I've ever heard recorded. However, Thelma's voice is superbly well presented.

Techno Commander
23-01-2011, 19:53
It would appear as though I am now £350 lighter, but am now the owner of an extremely large Sansui Integrated amp. :eek:

Au D11 MkII (http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/66/2513.html?begin=11)

http://www.sansui.us/images/AUD11II_00011.jpg

Should be a nice "stop gap" while I reorganise my pre/power amps.

Rare Bird
23-01-2011, 19:59
Some Tannoy Jupiter finished teatime sixy notes, you don't see many of those up for sale.

Reid Malenfant
23-01-2011, 20:00
Looks like a bit of a beast Andy :eyebrows:

Techno Commander
23-01-2011, 20:02
My research also tells me its a bit of a rare beasty too.

Rare Bird
23-01-2011, 20:04
pretend output transistors tho.. :lolsign:

:sofa:

Reid Malenfant
23-01-2011, 20:06
pretend output transistors tho.. :lolsign:

:sofa:
:lolsign: What's that Andr'e, TO3Pretend :eyebrows:

MartinT
23-01-2011, 20:16
:lolsign: What's that Andr'e, TO3Pretend :eyebrows:

I suspect they're TO220, though ;)

Reid Malenfant
23-01-2011, 20:29
I suspect they're TO220, though ;)
Defo TO3P Martin ;)

Just won a brand new & sealed copy of The Girl That Played With Fire on blu ray for £8.50 with free delivery :doh: Now i need to find Dragon Tattoo for about £6 delivered, it's a tough world :eyebrows:

Mothman
23-01-2011, 20:31
Chuffing lovely Andy. Can't wait to hear what it sounds like.

Rare Bird
23-01-2011, 20:35
:lolsign: What's that Andr'e, TO3Pretend :eyebrows:

:lolsign:

Techno Commander
23-01-2011, 21:14
Now i need to find Dragon Tattoo for about £6 delivered, it's a tough world :eyebrows:

Clicky (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TY207-SKULLS-AND-DRAGON-TEMPORARY-TATTOO-/190483313319?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Tattoos_BodyArt_S M&hash=item2c59b0b2a7) :)

Jonboy
23-01-2011, 21:23
l Now i need to find Dragon Tattoo for about £6 delivered, it's a tough world :eyebrows:

Just read the book, i wonder if the film lives up to it

Reid Malenfant
23-01-2011, 21:24
Just read the book, i wonder if the film lives up to it
MartinT knows :)

MartinT
23-01-2011, 21:33
I think the 'Girl' films (I've seen the first two now) do live up to the books and Noomi Rapace is a stunning Lisbeth Salander. Any diversions from the book are simplifications necessary to squeeze the story into a couple of hours and don't jar too much. Very enjoyable, but don't get too excited by having the Blu-rays as the picture quality is nothing special.

Jonboy
23-01-2011, 21:48
i'm looking forward to it now, i best get on an start the second book as well

Rare Bird
23-01-2011, 21:52
I've never been able to read story books & such, it's not cos i'm as thick as two short planks er owt (then again) no it's that i don't believe in reading fictional things when i can read something factual i can learn from.

MartinT
23-01-2011, 23:20
i don't believe in reading fictional things when i can read something factual i can learn from.

I like both, Andr'e, they feed different parts of the psyche.

Rare Bird
23-01-2011, 23:22
Well i've only got a very small area of my brain left, the rests full of crap i've filled it with over the years, i've gotta be very selective with what i use this space for these days :lolsign:

Macca
24-01-2011, 10:41
Well i've only got a very small area of my brain left, the rests full of crap i've filled it with over the years, i've gotta be very selective with what i use this space for these days :lolsign:

HOMER: 'But Marge, everytime I learn something new it pushes old stuff out of my brain! Remember when I took that home wine-making course and I forgot how to drive?

MARGE: 'That's because you were DRUNK!!!'

Alex_UK
24-01-2011, 11:01
HOMER: 'But Marge, everytime I learn something new it pushes old stuff out of my brain! Remember when I took that home wine-making course and I forgot how to drive?

MARGE: 'That's because you were DRUNK!!!'

:lolsign: Love it!

Rare Bird
24-01-2011, 17:37
Just won a loverly pair of vintage ROSS RE-272 headphones, don't know what they are like but at £18 thought i'd have a stab, look loverly quality anyway,excellent condition.. certainly right up my avenue styling wise.. so that's a start.. :eyebrows:

Marco
24-01-2011, 20:57
Nice - they used to sell stuff like that in Laskys :)

Marco.

Rare Bird
29-01-2011, 16:16
I've tried a few headphone amps over the month, all sound pathetic which just about summs todays hifi, don't know why i even gave em the time of day tbh :lolsign:

I should have been from another time, i decided to try a few 70's intergrated amplifiers with tone controls :eyebrows: landed a nice Trio 'KA2000A' for an awesome £11.50, it's in the postie as i write this :eyebrows:

Rare Bird
29-01-2011, 23:57
Just won another Trio 'KA2000' but an earlier one this time, £18.00.. :lolsign:

Macca
30-01-2011, 00:43
Just won another Trio 'KA2000' but an earlier one this time, £18.00.. :lolsign:

Beautiful.

Jonboy
30-01-2011, 10:34
I should have been from another time, i decided to try a few 70's intergrated amplifiers with tone controls :eyebrows: landed a nice Trio 'KA2000A' for an awesome £11.50, it's in the postie as i write this :eyebrows:

I sure i had one of those without the wood sleeve, i was my first seperates amp, i think mine had an orange power button :scratch:

Rare Bird
30-01-2011, 18:34
What do you do when you desperatly want something you have been looking out for years, large weighs a ton (but within courior max weight restrictions) & is the other side of the country, worse the seller makes it so obvious he's not intrested n' has nay intentions in packing it properly?? :(

Reid Malenfant
30-01-2011, 18:43
Hire a van & go & get it yourself if you can drive? :scratch:

I wish i could quite often :doh:

Rare Bird
30-01-2011, 19:00
440 miles round trip :lolsign:

Jonboy
30-01-2011, 19:03
440 miles round trip :lolsign:
where is it, is there no one on here that could help

Reid Malenfant
30-01-2011, 19:06
440 miles round trip :lolsign:
If you want something badly enough...... You only need to do it the once...

:eyebrows:

Rare Bird
30-01-2011, 19:11
where is it, is there no one on here that could help

Don't Drive mark

It's in Portsmouth Jon but would'nt dream bothering anyone to pack it..

Reid Malenfant
30-01-2011, 19:15
Don't Drive mark
You're in the same boat as me Andr'e :doh: A year or so ago i won an auction for a couple of Krell KAS2 monoblocks & i'd already got the ok from a mate to drive me down just south of London to pick them up at a price :)

Tested the first amp after unboxing it & all's well, tested the second & it went in protection mode :eek: :doh:

Still had to pay my friend the cost of the journey & his time :rolleyes:

Rare Bird
30-01-2011, 19:23
Hi Mark

Well i've always said some people sell stuff for a reason but it's a chance you have to take.You can guarenteed everything i fancy is the other side of the country :(

The amount of stuff i bought thats arrived smashed due to poor packing is Beggars belief.I mean how easy is it but to use an oversized box, pack the unit in a way that it's technically suspended in free space within the packing, if the unit gets hit the free space takes it & not the unit. :scratch:

Reid Malenfant
30-01-2011, 19:29
I mean how easy is it but to use an oversized box, pack the unit in a way that it's technically suspended in free space within the packing, if the unit gets hit the free space or takes it & not the unit. :scratch:
Indeed, i think i must have been lucky as i have never received anything broken in nearly 1200 buys on ebay. I agree with the above entirely ;)

tommy6206
30-01-2011, 19:33
Andre
Shame its not closer to me its 160 odd miles away.Is there not a member on here in Portsmouth that could help.
Did you go for them Atacama stands?

Jac Hawk
30-01-2011, 19:37
Hi Mark

Well i've always said some people sell stuff for a reason but it's a chance you have to take.You can guarenteed everything i fancy is the other side of the country :(

The amount of stuff i bought thats arrived smashed due to poor packing is Beggars belief.I mean how easy is it but to use an oversized box, pack the unit in a way that it's technically suspended in free space within the packing, if the unit gets hit the free space or takes it & not the unit. :scratch:

I've been very lucky in that respect i suppose, all the stuff i've gotten over the years from ebay has been packed realy well, even the stuff that was supposed to be collection only, my last set of wharfedales for instance, i won them for £6 or £7 they cost £12 p&p and i shit you not, the seller packed them like they were the crown jewels or something, shredded paper bubble wrap the whole nine yards, and it must have taken him some time to do it too.

Rare Bird
30-01-2011, 19:38
Andre
Shame its not closer to me its 160 odd miles away.Is there not a member on here in Portsmouth that could help.
Did you go for them Atacama stands?

No worries Gary just venting off really at my amazment with couldnt care less auction sellers. The top plates on those stands were a bit too big :(..I'm gonna be getting cracking with restoring these Mordaunt Short 'Paegant 2's soon anyway so will be persuing my hunt for some original stands fer em..

John
30-01-2011, 19:45
I travelled 300 miles round trip just to hear a pair of speakers Before sending off to USA for my speaker drivers If you think its worth the effort and you want it bad enough you can find a way

Jonboy
30-01-2011, 19:50
Don't Drive mark

It's in Portsmouth Jon but would'nt dream bothering anyone to pack it..

what are we talking about packing, Portmouth isn't to far from me and i might be bidding on something that way myself if it doesn't go for silly money

MartinT
30-01-2011, 20:18
Tested the first amp after unboxing it & all's well, tested the second & it went in protection mode

With your obvious electronics expertise I trust you fixed it? Very nice set to have.

Reid Malenfant
30-01-2011, 20:32
With your obvious electronics expertise I trust you fixed it? Very nice set to have.
No Martin, i'd have loved to but having seen the circuit diagrams of the earlier more simple Krells like the KSA80 & knowing the KAS2 was also regulated & had a stupendous amount of output transistors for each channel as well as nigh on impossible to find fet input transistors i cut & run :eyebrows:

The seller was gutted it didn't work & so was I (I could see how surprised the chap was!), they were as new, 9.5 in condition :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Win some, lose some.

I'll build my own :eyebrows:

keiths
30-01-2011, 21:26
Circumstances forced me to sell my turntable a few years ago and to sell off off most of my vinyl, but I still have quite a few (200 ish?) LPs left, a few dozen of which I don't have on CD or files. Recently been hankering after hearing some of them again, but cannot justify spending anything but the minimum.

Just bought this. Could turn out to be an ok buy for what I paid or a total crock.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390281699305

So it'll need a headshell and a cheap MM cartridge and possibly a mat. Not that I've got anywhere to put it and I've just remembered that my amp doen't have a phono stage :doh: Must learn to leave eBay alone. :mental:

Anway, it'll probably turn out to be totally knackered and will go straight into a skip.:rolleyes:

Rare Bird
30-01-2011, 21:46
Keith
There's a loverly AR 'Legend'/'Linn 'Basik LVX'/Linn 'K9'? presently running for a ton.

Jonboy
30-01-2011, 21:55
Keith
There's a loverly AR 'Legend'/'Linn 'Basik LVX'/Linn 'K9'? presently running for a ton.

I've got the exact same combo, very good and musical combination

keiths
30-01-2011, 22:50
Keith
There's a loverly AR 'Legend'/'Linn 'Basik LVX'/Linn 'K9'? presently running for a ton.

Thanks, it's pick up only from High Wickham and I've no means of doing that (sounds familiar). Also I suspect it'll end up quite a bit more than that.

The Grand Wazoo
31-01-2011, 00:15
That's a good TT - it'll stand an arm a bloody sight better than an LVX, too. Nice curvy bit of walnut veneer on 'em too. I had a run of AR turntables over several years & they were all good.

The Black Adder
01-02-2011, 13:27
As you know Marco.. I'm after some of these Celestions so if anyone has any for sale do let me know.

Do these have anything in common with the DL12's ?

Rare Bird
01-02-2011, 15:08
As you know Marco.. I'm after some of these Celestions so if anyone has any for sale do let me know.

Do these have anything in common with the DL12's ?

Nay

Vinyleyes
01-02-2011, 16:06
I re-foamed a pair of JBL L100-T 12" bass drivers last year and was reluctant to cut the dust caps off because they were perfect, but it really is the best way to shim the voice coil centrally in the gap. The whole process took about three hours and was very successful. The speakers used to be mine but my friend loves them and we revitalised them in one enjoyable afternoon. Well worth the effort.

Hi Martin .. I just had my JBL L110's reconed and they sound great in a 2nd sysytem ,... but the adjustable controls on the mid and tweeter are causing crackling. Can anyone help with suggestions to upgrade the x/over network in these lovely old things .. they really do sound good. Should I be looking at replacing caps etc .. I had them next to a pair of Castle Howards ( which are now being refurbished with Morel drivers and new caps) and they held their own pretty well .... and they bashed similarily priced competition of their era to my ears anyway. The driver magnets are huge, heavy and things of beauty .. I was almost sorry to hide them away in the cabinet again :lolsign:

Any tips/comments from anyone would be most welcome .. and on the Howards as well .. if anyone has experience with new Morel drivers versus the original castle drivers of 20 odd years ago ..

:cool:

Vinyleyes
01-02-2011, 16:15
It would appear as though I am now £350 lighter, but am now the owner of an extremely large Sansui Integrated amp. :eek:

Au D11 MkII (http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/en/cat/66/2513.html?begin=11)

http://www.sansui.us/images/AUD11II_00011.jpg

Should be a nice "stop gap" while I reorganise my pre/power amps.

Wow .. what a beaut .. so happy to see so many on this thread with a passion for this gear ...... I want to buy a big classic vintage looking Jap tranny amp no less than 70 wpc for my 2nd system ... Any recomendations folks ..

Techno Commander
01-02-2011, 16:52
I would think any of the top of the range offerings from Sansui, Pioneer, Marantz & Kenwood are worthy of serious contention. Unfortunately, these are becoming "collectable" and prices are rising rapidly.

I would recommend trawling ebay and shortlisting anything that looks interesting. Then research those items through different forums (worldwide) and try to get an eye for whats good and what isnt. Thats what I did anyway.:)

There have been quite a few goodies which have tempted me recently.

MartinT
01-02-2011, 18:34
but the adjustable controls on the mid and tweeter are causing crackling. Can anyone help with suggestions to upgrade the x/over network in these lovely old things

Hi Brian

Very often these controls have so-called self-cleaning tracks but they get dirty and consequently crackle. The best way to clean them up is to exercise them all the way round and back again about 50 times - with the sound off, obviously.

As for the main crossover components, replace the caps but leave the inductors alone is the general rule. I recommend Auricaps if you can afford them.

MartinT
01-02-2011, 18:37
I would think any of the top of the range offerings from Sansui, Pioneer, Marantz & Kenwood

Don't forget Sony with their V-FET monsters, although getting very pricey these days.

Marco
01-02-2011, 18:40
Wow .. what a beaut .. so happy to see so many on this thread with a passion for this gear ...... I want to buy a big classic vintage looking Jap tranny amp no less than 70 wpc for my 2nd system ... Any recomendations folks ..

WOW - that's a beautiful looking thing, and testament to when hi-fi equipment was once built properly! :)

Marco.

Vinyleyes
01-02-2011, 20:42
Don't forget Sony with their V-FET monsters, although getting very pricey these days.

Thanks for suggestions on the speakers & amps chaps ... There is indeed a VERY pricey Sony VFET on the Bay now .. BUT I haven't won it yet .... :eek: ...

MartinT
01-02-2011, 20:54
I see it - what a shame that it's been treated like that. A travesty, but it hasn't kept the price down, has it?

Rare Bird
02-02-2011, 15:25
Little Trio amp landed this morning, it sounds brilliant, i totally love this amp & it's aesthetics are gorgeous.It wants a little clean & i notice a couple very tiny marks by the side of the power switch, i can sort easy enough but a stunner, around 40 years old. absolutly the best £18.00 ive ever spent.Deffo a keeper, i'm just waiting on the re introduced version i also bought coming.

Sorry for the poor picture.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/Picture004.jpg

Marco
02-02-2011, 15:35
Hi Andre,

Nice one - I love how it looks, too! What a superb buy for £18.00... :eek:

Bet it would outperform some of the shite made nowadays ;)

Marco.

Rare Bird
02-02-2011, 16:06
:lol: thats not hard..

Techno Commander
02-02-2011, 22:59
I want to buy a big classic vintage looking Jap tranny amp no less than 70 wpc for my 2nd system ... Any recomendations folks ..

A couple of goodies which might tempt you.

Sansui AU417 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SANSUI-AU-417-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-VG-COND-CIRCA-1978-/230580761282?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item35afaf32c2)

Sony TA F6B (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-TA-F6B-Integrated-Stereo-Amplifier-HIGH-END-Edel-/220730739720?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item336493cc08)

Technics SU V7 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TECHNICS-DC-AMPLIFIER-POWER-VERSTARKER-SU-V7-EXELENT-/230579618315?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item35af9dc20b) (I used to have one of these, a true power house of an amp)

Technics SU V6 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Technics-SU-V6-Amplifier-Rare-Superb-Condition-/260723128172?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item3cb44f376c) Very nice :)

Marco
02-02-2011, 23:29
The Sansui would get my vote (just) ahead of the Sony :)

Marco.

Jac Hawk
03-02-2011, 01:24
The Sansui would get my vote (just) ahead of the Sony :)

Marco.

Me too,

for me though the problem with old all be it "hi end" amps is that the caps are going to be a little tired if they are original and would need replacing, not a bad thing and to be honest is worth while doing but and here's the thing on ebay you can end up paying top dollar for an old amp due to it's past reputation, but then you will need to spend £200 plus on new caps, all of a sudden the old amp doesn't look so atractive, if you can get a bargin like the Trio Andre got, then you don't mind spending a few quid on caps, at the end of the day you can end up spending more on a vintage (if that's the right word) amp and re cap than what it actually cost when it was new. A sobering thought i'm sure you'll agree

Rare Bird
03-02-2011, 03:22
A couple of goodies which might tempt you.



Denon 'PM850' from the late '70's was a beauty if you ever see one

Vinyleyes
03-02-2011, 06:00
Me too,

for me though the problem with old all be it "hi end" amps is that the caps are going to be a little tired if they are original and would need replacing, not a bad thing and to be honest is worth while doing but and here's the thing on ebay you can end up paying top dollar for an old amp due to it's past reputation, but then you will need to spend £200 plus on new caps, all of a sudden the old amp doesn't look so atractive, if you can get a bargin like the Trio Andre got, then you don't mind spending a few quid on caps, at the end of the day you can end up spending more on a vintage (if that's the right word) amp and re cap than what it actually cost when it was new. A sobering thought i'm sure you'll agree

Thanks guys .. I'm already on it .. the Sansui is on my watch list .. I spotted it straightaway .. and it is my first choice too :-) ...... and the cost for new caps does not bother up to a certain price... after all my Triumph TR6 now costs about 5 times more than it did when new .. so I don't see a value problem with paying a little more now for a neat little piece of 70's hifi than what it cost new . .. The value of the Sansui is relative to what you would have to pay NOW on the market to get a similar performance .. and that's not putting any value on aesthetics .. which to me is worth quite a bit ..

Did anyone see the Luxman receiver .... I like that too .. does anyone rate it .. although that is gonna get a bit pricey and into the territory of Jac Hawks comments .. and certainly the Sony VFEt at 795 BIN bears out what he says .. :(
How good are they anyway .. has anyone here got one. Could you justify paying almost a grand for a VFET on it's performance aspect alone ..

Luxman receiver .. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270696839410&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

:cool:

MartinT
03-02-2011, 07:35
The Sony V-FET amps were lovely and good sounding too. The only problem might be finding compatible FETs should any fail.

The Grand Wazoo
03-02-2011, 07:47
The Luxman - yes please, but then I'm a bit of a one for receivers. These were regularly going for £70 just 3 years ago.
By the way, it's big (19 1/4" wide X 17" deep) and won't fit properly in a normal rack, so you should bear that in mind.

Techno Commander
03-02-2011, 08:24
The Sansui I recenly purchased is almost certainly going to need to be recapped (at some point). It will also require half a dozed trim pots being replaced as well as having DC offset and biasing reset.

However, once done it is likely to sound better than when new.