Empire 698: my lucky day!

[Rosewind]

Today I picked up a pretty, pretty Empire 698. Pretty, if you like a little bling and wood. It is in full working condition and does not (yet) suffer from any of the "ailments" that go with a turntable from the years 1976-1981 (or 82):
- clear plastic parts ("lexan") become brittle,
- electric cueing failure,
- tonearm headshell - non-standard and prone to breaking off
- metal corrosion
- gold plating wears thin

The turntable was owned by an old man who bought it when he worked at the Thule Air Base in Greenland - where my father also worked, incidentally. He must have taken extremely good care of it, because here it is in all its glory with a Shure M91ED:

https://i.imgur.com/15quuueh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EfmIbj2h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/V6x81q0h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CZWJ7Pth.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nrBzk6Hh.jpg

[oldius]

A class act .

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[Ali Tait]

Nice find!

[Bigman80]

Rather fetching.

[jandl100]

Beautiful :drool:

[Rosewind]

Yes. It looks and sounds great. I will look into whether I can use heavier carts on that arm. Otherwise I will set up the SME 3009R or another (12""?) arm on the other side of it. But it looks great and is playing Lou Reed "Transformer" as I write this.

[Lawrence001]

Not heard of Empire, were they respected in their day?

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[walpurgis]

Not heard of Empire, were they respected in their day?

They were. Made some nice cartridges and interesting speakers too.

[Clive197]

I’ve not only heard of Empire Cartridges but have heard some of their models back in the day. Oh heck I must be getting old

[Audio Al]

:stalks::eek::stalks::D

[Idlewithnodrive]

Like that :thumbsup:

[AJSki2fly]

Very nice indeed!!:D

[Rosewind]

You win some, you lose some. Earlier today I managed to break off the cantilever of my Benz Micro Gullwing while dusting off my other turntable - the Thorens TD 147 Jubilee. I have regained my composure, but for a minute I was no happy camper.

[struth]

You win some, you lose some. Earlier today I managed to break off the cantilever of my Benz Micro Gullwing while dusting off my other turntable - the Thorens TD 147 Jubilee. I have regained my composure, but for a minute I was no happy camper.

oh dear.. travesty.... i hate when that happens

[montesquieu]

Lovely. But is Thule a real place? I thought it was only a place in Greek and Roman mythology ....


You win some, you lose some. Earlier today I managed to break off the cantilever of my Benz Micro Gullwing while dusting off my other turntable - the Thorens TD 147 Jubilee. I have regained my composure, but for a minute I was no happy camper.

Scheisse. That's awful. Have done the same thing but thankfully only to cheaper stuff.

Can I recommend this chap? He's done some great stuff for me in the last year or so. http://holisticaudio.nl/services.html

[RobbieGong]

Lovely. But is Thule a real place? I thought it was only a place in Greek and Roman mythology ....



Scheisse. That's awful. Have done the same thing but thankfully only to cheaper stuff.

Can I recommend this chap? He's done some great stuff for me in the last year or so. http://holisticaudio.nl/services.html

+1
Class act Kilian Bakker of Holistic Audio :thumbsup:

[Rosewind]

Yes, the place is real. As is the Empire 698 and the broken off cantilever ...

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Rosewind]

YES!
My insurance company will cover a rebuild done by Benz. So hat's off to them! I have to pay a small cover which is a very little price to pay for being a clumpsy fool.

Otherwise, I have sold off my Thorens TD 147 Jubilee to a sweet guy from Spain who is trying to make a living in Denmark. I wish him all the best of luck. If I could give him a job, I would.

I wil now give the Empire 698 a gentle cleaning and try not break any of the fragile lexan (plastic) parts on it. Then I will move it up on the dedicated turntable shelf above my stereo. When the Benz Micro comes back from the rebuild I will decide whether to mount it on the Empire 698 or to sell it for something less fancy. It will also depend on what phono stage - if any - I get instead of the Van den Hul "The Grail" which is currently for sale in the UK at a dealer's where it can be demoed.

[Bigman80]

YES!
My insurance company will cover a rebuild done by Benz. So hat's off to them! I have to pay a small cover which is a very little price to pay for being a clumpsy fool.

Otherwise, I have sold off my Thorens TD 147 Jubilee to a sweet guy from Spain who is trying to make a living in Denmark. I wish him all the best of luck. If I could give him a job, I would.

I wil now give the Empire 698 a gentle cleaning and try not break any of the fragile lexan (plastic) parts on it. Then I will move it up on the dedicated turntable shelf above my stereo. When the Benz Micro comes back from the rebuild I will decide whether to mount it on the Empire 698 or to sell it for something less fancy. It will also depend on what phono stage - if any - I get instead of the Van den Hul "The Grail" which is currently for sale in the UK at a dealer's where it can be demoed.What dealer?

[Rosewind]

Choice Hifi.

[Lawrence001]

YES!
My insurance company will cover a rebuild done by Benz. So hat's off to them! I have to pay a small cover which is a very little price to pay for being a clumpsy fool.

Otherwise, I have sold off my Thorens TD 147 Jubilee to a sweet guy from Spain who is trying to make a living in Denmark. I wish him all the best of luck. If I could give him a job, I would.

I wil now give the Empire 698 a gentle cleaning and try not break any of the fragile lexan (plastic) parts on it. Then I will move it up on the dedicated turntable shelf above my stereo. When the Benz Micro comes back from the rebuild I will decide whether to mount it on the Empire 698 or to sell it for something less fancy. It will also depend on what phono stage - if any - I get instead of the Van den Hul "The Grail" which is currently for sale in the UK at a dealer's where it can be demoed.Not sure how much we're talking but I've generally avoided claiming on the policy for lesser amounts as I lose the no claims and the price goes up the next year. Also if you want to change company the new ones don't like it when you say you've had a claim and will probably charge more.

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[Rosewind]

Rebuild costs 800£. I have not claimed on the insurance before so there will be no penalty.

[Rosewind]

Rebuild costs 800£. I have not claimed on the insurance before so there will be no penalty.

Also my company is niche in that it insures only teachers. It is the best run insurance company here. The other companies simply can't match prices and coverage. When we are approached by other insdurance companies they go quiet when we tell them we are insured by LB (Lærerstandens Brandforsikring =the teacher's association insurance company").

[Lawrence001]

Wow wish we had something like that here. Not for teachers though I couldn't use that! And £800 is worth claiming!

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[Rosewind]

I think I may sell the Benz Micro Gullwing SLR once I have it back. I have had problems matching it to phono preamps + SUTs. It has sounded off with an EAR 802, a Croft Riaa R, and even one or two highly regarded mc phono stages that I had here seemed to struggle to let it shine at its best. Perhaps I should just have gone with the Benz Micro Lukaschek PP1 T-9 phono stage? Perhaps that is indeed what I should do before selling it.

Today I am home from work due to a massive cold that developed during the weekend so I have plenty of time to think about what to do with my stereo. And I got my birthday present early this year: the Empire 698 ...

[montesquieu]

I think I may sell the Benz Micro Gullwing SLR once I have it back. I have had problems matching it to phono preamps + SUTs. It has sounded off with an EAR 802, a Croft Riaa R, and even one or two highly regarded mc phono stages that I had here seemed to struggle to let it shine at its best. Perhaps I should just have gone with the Benz Micro Lukaschek PP1 T-9 phono stage? Perhaps that is indeed what I should do before selling it.

Today I am home from work due to a massive cold that developed during the weekend so I have plenty of time to think about what to do with my stereo. And I got my birthday present early this year: the Empire 698 ...

Strange .. the Benz is nothing out of the ordinary in terms of matching for a low output/highish impedance - 0.34mV and 38 ohms ... anything suitable for a Denon 103 should do the job, between 1:10 and 1:15, say 1:12 .... clearly something suitable for SPU or even something in the middle like an AT would be wrong but shouldn't be too hard to match it.

The Empire TT it looks the business but by all accounts it's a very low mass arm (it's certainly from that low mass/very high compliance era) ... the Benz is medium compliance, it may just about be OK but might be useful to run the numbers on vinyl engine's calculator.

Tons of really good high compliance cartridges out there as they are somewhat out of fashion at the moment .. definitely go vintage, tons of options especially in the absolute top quality MM department which will suit the arm and would save you any SUT worries, but a few nice vintage MCs as well.

[Rosewind]

The Gullwing sounded fine through all solid state phono stages although the Van den Hul didn't make it shine the way I would have thought it would. With all the valve-driven preamps and mm riaas I had in the mix there was a dark and muted quality to the sound. Perhaps it was my Partridge SUT with its too low gain? Or perhaps it was just my Thorens arm on the Thorens TD147 Jubilee that couldn't handle the cart with my DIY approach to the counter-weight. Anyway, I may want to go with a lighter cartridge with the arm on the Empire 698.

[montesquieu]

The Partridge would certainly have sounded very wrong for this cartridge, not just too low gain but it would also have given you insufficient loading. Don't know enough about the VdH but my guess is you'd be looking at a setting of 500 ohm to 1k ohm.

For the Empire best results might well be obtained by a good high compliance MM cartridge, something like a MusicMaker MkIII or one of the Grado Reference series.

Actually the M91ED for its time was quite high up the pecking order maybe a Jico SAS stylus for it or swap out for a Jico stylus Shure V15 that would be a classic combo.

Quite a few vintage MM types worth experimenting with though from the likes of Grace, Glanz, even Fidelity Research - or, indeed, Empire (though the expertise on these vintage MMs is mainly to be found over on the Lenco forum).

[Rosewind]

I have looked at a Denon 107 with low mileage also, but will have to wait to see what I decide to do when the cartridge returns from the retip at Benz'.

Yes I suspect that the Partridge SUT did not do it any good. Also I think the Van den Hul may be unable to auto-load above 500ohms (but I may be wrong). A Trilogy 907 that I sold to offset the purchase of the DIY DCB1 preamp, actually, to my old ears, seemed to sound just a little bit crispier with the Benz Micro Gullwing SLR. On the green forum my findings were attributed to my below par Thorens TD147 Jubilee and its TP16 arm. Hmm.

[montesquieu]

I have looked at a Denon 107 with low mileage also, but will have to wait to see what I decide to do when the cartridge returns from the retip at Benz'.

Yes I suspect that the Partridge SUT did not do it any good. Also I think the Van den Hul may be unable to auto-load above 500ohms (but I may be wrong). A Trilogy 907 that I sold to offset the purchase of the DIY DCB1 preamp, actually, to my old ears, seemed to sound just a little bit crispier with the Benz Micro Gullwing SLR. On the green forum my findings were attributed to my below par Thorens TD147 Jubilee and its TP16 arm. Hmm.

The Denon 107 is one of the LOWEST (sorry had to edit that!) compliance MMs out there so not a good fit at all. (Great cartridge though, I had one myself and really rated it - in its hey day it was twice the price of the 103).

The TP16 could well be part of your problem as it's an OK arm but far short of the Benz in capability. (Likewise the 147). Together with the SUT mismatch I can understand the disappointment.