View Full Version : Women Hifi owners...
icehockeyboy
03-10-2019, 12:07
Don’t know why, but of late I’ve seen a lot of theoretical lady Hifi owners selling stuff on the Facebook Market place, except I’m thinking they don’t know that much about what they’re flogging!
For instance, one lady was selling speaker stands ‘With holes in the bases so that you can screw them to the floor so they won’t move.
Good idea actually, but not what the holes are intended for!
Another was selling a stereo amp, when viewed from the back was a 5.1 channel AV receiver.
On a similar issue, my wife was moaning that she couldn’t turn down the kitchen system I had in my previous house, upon closer inspection it seemed she was trying to turn down the microwave oven!
Well I suppose one circular knob looks like another! 😂
Stryder5
03-10-2019, 12:13
Perhaps they're not really the owners but selling for a "partner", thinking it somehow makes it more believable?
Gary
Spectral Morn
03-10-2019, 13:02
Ignorance of hifi, what it is, what it does is not a gender issue but simply an issue of people not knowing anything about it. Everyone on this forum at one time knew nothing about anything hifi related because we were not interested in it, then we were, and learn't about it.
Pigmy Pony
03-10-2019, 14:43
Ignorance of hifi, what it is, what it does is not a gender issue but simply an issue of people not knowing anything about it. Everyone on this forum at one time knew nothing about anything hifi related because we were not interested in it, then we were, and learn't about it.
Speak for yourself Neil, I still haven't a clue! Although I have worked out that my CDs don't have a b-side.
Crackles
03-10-2019, 14:59
Perhaps they're not really the owners but selling for a "partner", thinking it somehow makes it more believable?
GaryOr an ex partner to get revenge.
Or maybe it's some hairy-arsed bloke who thinks people will fall for the 'one lady owner' spiel.
Saying that I did buy an Alphason rack and an Arcam amp once from a lady who advertised the stuff on Gumtree. It was her son's gear from when he lived at home and she just wanted rid of it.
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rigger67
03-10-2019, 16:58
I think we're getting to the point when it might also be wives selling their late husbands' gear .. at least if a recent show I went to is any gauge. I'm 52 and was by a long way one of the youngest people in the building.
Stryder5
03-10-2019, 17:06
Speak for yourself Neil, I still haven't a clue! Although I have worked out that my CDs don't have a b-side.
Bugger, I thought my CD player was knackered......
Mikeandvan
03-10-2019, 22:54
Bugger, I thought my CD player was knackered......
The fix is a Pioneer 'stable 'platter' machine.
Women hifi owners?
The world's gone mad.
They'll be letting them vote next.
AJSki2fly
04-10-2019, 05:58
I hope the fairer sex on here don’t take the wrong way, but I have several ladies why they are not interested in hifi and the reasons are primarily as follows.
They view music as reflecting how they feel or what they are doing during the day, so it is part of the routine not a special thing. As a result as long as it sounds ok that’s all that matters.
Women tend to not obsess about things, it more about how something looks and feels, and if it works in the home environment.
Several women said they did not have time to waste sitting listening to music, let alone worrying whether it was being reproduced properly, that was not important to them, just like what type of car they had is not important for most women, how and with what music is produced is also unimportant to them.
I think lady hifi buffs are a rarity, but having said that I think hifi buffs in general are a minority and have probably always been so. I suspect that for most of the worlds population it’s practicality and cost that is what matters when buying equipment, and as long as its sound ok that’s fine. Which is probably why modern small integrated systems that are sub £1k are so successful.
The only ladies I know that are concerned about how it sounds are those that perform music, and then it’s about how they sound and what they are producing.
Stryder5
04-10-2019, 07:32
I hope the fairer sex on here don’t take the wrong way, but I have several ladies why they are not interested in hifi and the reasons are primarily as follows.
They view music as reflecting how they feel or what they are doing during the day, so it is part of the routine not a special thing. As a result as long as it sounds ok that’s all that matters.
Women tend to not obsess about things, it more about how something looks and feels, and if it works in the home environment.
Several women said they did not have time to waste sitting listening to music, let alone worrying whether it was being reproduced properly, that was not important to them, just like what type of car they had is not important for most women, how and with what music is produced is also unimportant to them.
I think lady hifi buffs are a rarity, but having said that I think hifi buffs in general are a minority and have probably always been so. I suspect that for most of the worlds population it’s practicality and cost that is what matters when buying equipment, and as long as its sound ok that’s fine. Which is probably why modern small integrated systems that are sub £1k are so successful.
The only ladies I know that are concerned about how it sounds are those that perform music, and then it’s about how they sound and what they are producing.
Great answer, spot on about cars and music.
Gary
Pigmy Pony
04-10-2019, 19:32
I hope the fairer sex on here don’t take the wrong way, but I have several ladies why they are not interested in hifi and the reasons are primarily as follows.
They view music as reflecting how they feel or what they are doing during the day, so it is part of the routine not a special thing. As a result as long as it sounds ok that’s all that matters.
Women tend to not obsess about things, it more about how something looks and feels, and if it works in the home environment.
Several women said they did not have time to waste sitting listening to music, let alone worrying whether it was being reproduced properly, that was not important to them, just like what type of car they had is not important for most women, how and with what music is produced is also unimportant to them.
I think lady hifi buffs are a rarity, but having said that I think hifi buffs in general are a minority and have probably always been so. I suspect that for most of the worlds population it’s practicality and cost that is what matters when buying equipment, and as long as its sound ok that’s fine. Which is probably why modern small integrated systems that are sub £1k are so successful.
The only ladies I know that are concerned about how it sounds are those that perform music, and then it’s about how they sound and what they are producing.
What's that? You have several ladies? How do you find the time to play records? I have only one and she seriously curtails my listening time, what with all the soaps and the loud hoovering :(
AJSki2fly
04-10-2019, 19:36
You’ve just to find the right music to serenade them, it always works with my harem.
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Pigmy Pony
04-10-2019, 19:44
You’ve just to find the right music to serenade them, it always works with my harem.
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Tried that yesterday. Started with Marcus miller "Laid Black" (this is just shite!) So tried "Best of Lou Reed" When it got to "Caroline Says" she got up and left the room. Some women just won't be serenaded :( But at least I tried.
Tried that yesterday. Started with Marcus miller "Laid Black" (this is just shite!) So tried "Best of Lou Reed" When it got to "Caroline Says" she got up and left the room. Some women just won't be serenaded :( But at least I tried.
Too subtle by far
https://i.postimg.cc/vT90pjNv/Screenshot-20191004-205331.jpg
Pigmy Pony
04-10-2019, 20:03
Too subtle by far
https://i.postimg.cc/vT90pjNv/Screenshot-20191004-205331.jpg
Might get away with that if the sleeve had a picture of Barry White
Crackles
04-10-2019, 21:45
I hope the fairer sex on here don’t take the wrong way, but I have several ladies why they are not interested in hifi and the reasons are primarily as follows.
They view music as reflecting how they feel or what they are doing during the day, so it is part of the routine not a special thing. As a result as long as it sounds ok that’s all that matters.
Women tend to not obsess about things, it more about how something looks and feels, and if it works in the home environment.
Several women said they did not have time to waste sitting listening to music, let alone worrying whether it was being reproduced properly, that was not important to them, just like what type of car they had is not important for most women, how and with what music is produced is also unimportant to them.
I think lady hifi buffs are a rarity, but having said that I think hifi buffs in general are a minority and have probably always been so. I suspect that for most of the worlds population it’s practicality and cost that is what matters when buying equipment, and as long as its sound ok that’s fine. Which is probably why modern small integrated systems that are sub £1k are so successful.
The only ladies I know that are concerned about how it sounds are those that perform music, and then it’s about how they sound and what they are producing.I find most women are far more interested in people than 'things' like HiFi equipment.
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Pigmy Pony
04-10-2019, 22:01
Unfortunately they're not usually interested in people who like Hifi equipment.
Crackles
04-10-2019, 22:23
Unfortunately they're not usually interested in people who like Hifi equipment.[emoji16]
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Audio Al
05-10-2019, 04:15
Unfortunately they're not usually interested in people who like Hifi equipment.
Like ME , Bliss :)
Pigmy Pony
05-10-2019, 05:10
Like ME , Bliss :)
But we all love you, that's got to count for something :)
You're right about the "bliss" thing though. "Married Bliss" is one of those oxymorons, like "Police Intelligence". And they are definitely poor value compared to most hifi equipment, the sound really deteriorates with age. The other day I was sat around doing nothing as usual (my favourite hobby), and the sound coming from her was really harsh the sibilance hurting my ears.
Also upgrades are really expensive, some procedures costing many thousands. And as for trading-in for a newer model, well that's just getting into the bath with a toaster :(
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 05:53
My SWMBO says she doesn’t like hifi because she can’t wear it.. she also says a diamond looks better on her finger than wearing it out on a piece of plastic.
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Pigmy Pony
05-10-2019, 06:17
My SWMBO says she doesn’t like hifi because she can’t wear it.. she also says a diamond looks better on her finger than wearing it out on a piece of plastic.
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They're so shallow aren't they, and couldn't give a stuff about the important things like valve rolling :(
It is very obvious if going by the Male/Female ratio's of contributors or attendance witnessed at a HiFi Event or a Forum Membership, that Females are the lesser sex who are involved.
I would presume in retail, that Females are more involved in purchasing items to replay music.
I would think that the retail world has a history of sales where the ratio of Female/Male purchases is a closer balance to the above.
When it comes to a dedicated HiFi system, usually it will sit in a prominent place in a home, so the aesthetics and choice of a device will be of interest, so to be able to view something in the flesh goes a long way.
I'm sure there are Females in relationships who indirectly like HiFi,
as a Partner who has a Passion/Hobby/Obsession for HiFi, will usually be a Home Dweller,not spending vast amounts of time in pursuit of other interests.
So that can be very reassuring and keep the peace.
I know there are Female partners who are happy to purchase HiFi Devices for partners with a Head full of all things HiFi, and even willing to turn a blind eye to a stretching of a budget to have, 'not another device brought into the home' following the crappiest reason to make a purchase being offered :scratch:
Then there is the On Line purchasing, supported by product images, from experience, I have seen my own Female Family members view Musical replay devices, as a attempt to inform me of how a HiFi system can look, 'another lead balloon moment' :lol:
Just recently a second system set of speakers were only allowed in the living room if they were all wood grain cabinets, as they had to look 'classy'. I was tied to this idea, and any proposals were subjected to scrutiny, there is no way my 57's are getting back into the room, even if I make a Classy veneered cover for them :doh: 'that was another lead balloon moment'. I tried hard on that one.
I am sure today of one thing Males and Females appear to listen to music in a very close ratio, I would put my neck out and say 50/50.
Cars have radios and Phone Docks and CD's and what ever else that can be used today.
Streaming and Downloading Music Files is Massive and I bet the market is supported by Females more than Males.
I bet if it was not for Female Support, the likes of Taylor Swift and Adele wealth would be much lessened.
Nearly every individual of a certain age range,met in a Public area going about their daily business, will be seen adorned with Ear Plug Speakers, taking in some form of media, which will regularly be music.
Music is not 'dead in the water' it is supported in a way not known of in previous markets.
Females contribute to this modern method of supporting Music en mass.
HiFi is different, it is a archaic pursuit, with a diminishing following, I entered this pursuit as a young individual, and met many young individuals on my journey, who all seemed to be enjoying listening to the thoughts of the older established individuals and took advice when it appeared sound, 'pardon the pun'.
I am sure I am still in the company of many of those young individuals today, who are now of a age like myself.
I rarely see obvious numbers of younger generation at Forum HiFi events, but do see a younger generation individual occasionally with the curiosity and passion to be creative in the world of HiFi.
To be converse in the Modern World of Music replay, and then take that and Mix it with HiFi DIY projects and Cherry Picked, off the shelf and yesteryear Devices, seems like a good place to be, in my mind.
I feel sure that in the the Commercial / Professional World and at a Trade Tech type of Show, the Younger Generation are the Dominant age group in attendance.
Mike Reed
05-10-2019, 10:39
My SWMBO says she doesn’t like hifi because she can’t wear it.. she also says a diamond looks better on her finger than wearing it out on a piece of plastic.
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Easily sorted. Get a knackered m.m. stylus replacement plug-in, strongly taped to her finger and she doesn't have an argumentative leg to stand on. Digital and audio harmony ! :lol:
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 13:10
My SWMBO says she doesn’t like hifi because she can’t wear it.. she also says a diamond looks better on her finger than wearing it out on a piece of plastic.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Easily sorted. Get a knackered m.m. stylus replacement plug-in, strongly taped to her finger and she doesn't have an argumentative leg to stand on. Digital and audio harmony ! :lol:
Mike if you fancy a break you can come down here and stand in front of my wife and say that and see what sort of response you'll get, please give me prior warning first. :eek:
Mike Reed
05-10-2019, 13:58
Mike if you fancy a break you can come down here and stand in front of my wife and say that and see what sort of response you'll get, please give me prior warning first. :eek:
Thanks, but no; bit worried about your 'break' mention. :) Not even prepared to give prior warning second......:lol:
hornucopia
05-10-2019, 14:10
John G. You could have painted the Quad 57 covers with a multi-coloured 'mural'-that might have worked. Or fitted pretend radiator valves at the sides?
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 14:57
Thanks, but no; bit worried about your 'break' mention. :) Not even prepared to give prior warning second......:lol:
https://www.animatedimages.org/data/media/532/animated-chicken-image-0042.gif
Women hifi owners?
The world's gone mad.
They'll be letting them vote next.
Careful now. I appreciate the sarcastic humour, but let's not tip things over the edge into sexism;)
And btw, that's directed at everyone. No-one so far has mentioned that women are often able to discern genuine differences in the sound of hi-fi systems better than their male husbands or partners!:ner:
In that respect, I often value Del's [much less biased] opinion more than mine.
Marco.
It is very obvious if going by the Male/Female ratio's of contributors or attendance witnessed at a HiFi Event or a Forum Membership, that Females are the lesser sex who are involved.
I would presume in retail, that Females are more involved in purchasing items to replay music.
I would think that the retail world has a history of sales where the ratio of Female/Male purchases is a closer balance to the above.
When it comes to a dedicated HiFi system, usually it will sit in a prominent place in a home, so the aesthetics and choice of a device will be of interest, so to be able to view something in the flesh goes a long way.
I'm sure there are Females in relationships who indirectly like HiFi,
as a Partner who has a Passion/Hobby/Obsession for HiFi, will usually be a Home Dweller,not spending vast amounts of time in pursuit of other interests.
So that can be very reassuring and keep the peace.
I know there are Female partners who are happy to purchase HiFi Devices for partners with a Head full of all things HiFi, and even willing to turn a blind eye to a stretching of a budget to have, 'not another device brought into the home' following the crappiest reason to make a purchase being offered :scratch:
Then there is the On Line purchasing, supported by product images, from experience, I have seen my own Female Family members view Musical replay devices, as a attempt to inform me of how a HiFi system can look, 'another lead balloon moment' :lol:
Just recently a second system set of speakers were only allowed in the living room if they were all wood grain cabinets, as they had to look 'classy'. I was tied to this idea, and any proposals were subjected to scrutiny, there is no way my 57's are getting back into the room, even if I make a Classy veneered cover for them :doh: 'that was another lead balloon moment'. I tried hard on that one.
I am sure today of one thing Males and Females appear to listen to music in a very close ratio, I would put my neck out and say 50/50.
Cars have radios and Phone Docks and CD's and what ever else that can be used today.
Streaming and Downloading Music Files is Massive and I bet the market is supported by Females more than Males.
I bet if it was not for Female Support, the likes of Taylor Swift and Adele wealth would be much lessened.
Nearly every individual of a certain age range,met in a Public area going about their daily business, will be seen adorned with Ear Plug Speakers, taking in some form of media, which will regularly be music.
Music is not 'dead in the water' it is supported in a way not known of in previous markets.
Females contribute to this modern method of supporting Music en mass.
HiFi is different, it is a archaic pursuit, with a diminishing following, I entered this pursuit as a young individual, and met many young individuals on my journey, who all seemed to be enjoying listening to the thoughts of the older established individuals and took advice when it appeared sound, 'pardon the pun'.
I am sure I am still in the company of many of those young individuals today, who are now of a age like myself.
I rarely see obvious numbers of younger generation at Forum HiFi events, but do see a younger generation individual occasionally with the curiosity and passion to be creative in the world of HiFi.
To be converse in the Modern World of Music replay, and then take that and Mix it with HiFi DIY projects and Cherry Picked, off the shelf and yesteryear Devices, seems like a good place to be, in my mind.
I feel sure that in the the Commercial / Professional World and at a Trade Tech type of Show, the Younger Generation are the Dominant age group in attendance.
John, do you have an aversion to paragraphs?;)
Sorry, no offence, but I'm disinclined to read a word you've written, simply because everything is so jumbled up. Therefore, in future I'd appreciate it if you used some paragraphs and spaced things out a bit. Cheers!:cool:
Marco.
Light Dependant Resistor
05-10-2019, 16:41
Careful now. I appreciate the sarcastic humour, but let's not tip things over the edge into sexism;)
And btw, that's directed at everyone. No-one so far has mentioned that women are often able to discern genuine differences in the sound of hi-fi systems better than their male husbands or partners!:ner:
In that respect, I often value Del's [much less biased] opinion more than mine.
Marco.
Slightly off topic but interesting point you raise Marco, I find my dog is a very good soundboard for audio. I can be playing King Crimson full tilt and he does not complain,
whereas at other times where perhaps a component is not as well chosen -he complains bitterly.
Thing is i usually agree with him, but he is exactly right on every occasion.
Pigmy Pony
05-10-2019, 16:52
Careful now. I appreciate the sarcastic humour, but let's not tip things over the edge into sexism;)
And btw, that's directed at everyone. No-one so far has mentioned that women are often able to discern genuine differences in the sound of hi-fi systems better than their male husbands or partners!:ner:
In that respect, I often value Del's [much less biased] opinion more than mine.
Marco.
My ex-wife was very good at discerning differences whenever I made changes in my system, and was very good at describing those changes. Thing is though, she couldn't care less about those changes. I'm not suggesting that female women of the opposite sex have cloth ears, but rather that none of it matters to them. Also, (don't bite my head off) I think for MOST women (not all) the look of the hifi is more important than the sound.
And I don't think I'm being chauvinistic when I state my belief that while most women like a nicely kept home, men are largely non-committal. Sure, men like it all to be nice, but aren't prepared to put in the hours themselves, unless they are in a position to make their home into a "look at me" statement piece. Not sexism, just the way things have been down the centuries: women were always the nest-builders, and men the providers.
As our increasingly materialistic culture has brought about a need for bigger incomes, so more women now go out to work, and this is bound to affect the roles at home. When Mrs. P worked full-time we shared household chores (although we did play to our strengths, she cooked and I cleaned), but the finer details of homemaking ie not having a carpet of dust on everything, mattered more to her than me :)
Slightly off topic but interesting point you raise Marco, I find my dog is a very good soundboard for audio. I can be playing King Crimson full tilt and he does not complain,
whereas at other times where perhaps a component is not as well chosen -he complains bitterly.
Thing is i usually agree with him, but he is exactly right on every occasion.
Yup, and your approach is entirely logical, simply because your dog a) has intrinsically more acute hearing, and b) is free from your hi-fi biases. Therefore what he hears and responds to, in that respect, is very much worth taking into consideration.
And the same often applies with women:)
Marco.
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 17:05
I'm not suggesting that female women of the opposite sex have cloth ears, but rather that none of it matters to them.
Is this a new gender that I have missed out on?:eyebrows:
Dogs have a typical hearing range of 70Hz - 45kHz. So it is not surprising that they might display a reaction to a change, if the audio response differed at frequencies above the range of human hearing.
Cats have an even wider hearing frequency range: 55Hz - 79kHz.
Is there any way in which cats are not superior?
Marco No Offence Taken
It all makes sense in my little world. :)
Is there any way in which cats are not superior?
Cats seem to defaecate with impunity on my lawn, whereas dogs do not! :doh:
Cats seem to defaecate with impunity on my lawn, whereas dogs do not! :doh:
Mate if a dog had the chance he'd kill you and everyone you care about. not crapping on your lawn is just to lull you into a false sense of security. The cat, on the other hand, considers it to be his lawn.
Marco No Offence Taken
It all makes sense in my little world. :)
No problem. It's not that I'm saying what you wrote didn't make sense, simply that I find it a chore ploughing through reams of text without paragraphs. Let me guess, you typed in on a phone, in a hurry, didn't you?;)
Marco.
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 17:36
Dogs have a typical hearing range of 70Hz - 45kHz. So it is not surprising that they might display a reaction to a change, if the audio response differed at frequencies above the range of human hearing.
Cats have an even wider hearing frequency range: 55Hz - 79kHz.
It is interesting, Harry nearly always comes into the lounge if there is music on and he seems to enjoy it and often goes to sleep, occasionally he gets up and goes off to the kitchen, but I have not worked out what music he doesn't like.
My cat was agnostic as far as music taste went. But he always would give a little start if the amp clipped. Better than a VU meter.
Cats seem to defaecate with impunity on my lawn, whereas dogs do not! :doh:
Then blame cat owners for not giving their cats sufficient territory to shit in, and which they can claim as their own...;)
We have three cats, and provide them with a large garden to use as they see fit, plus sufficient litter trays when they're inside the house (cleaned at regular intervals). Consequently, they have no need to defecate [check your spelling] elsewhere, as confirmed by our surrounding neighbours.
And when the cats 'use' our garden, as it were, it's always discretely in a far away corner, and the 'mess' quickly covered up with soil or leaves, which of course in time biodegrades. Cats have intrinsic needs the same as we do, so it's up to their owners to provide for them accordingly:D
Marco.
Then blame cat owners for not giving their cats sufficient territory to shit in, which they can claim as their own...;)
We have three cats, and provide them with a large garden to use as they see fit, plus sufficient litter trays when they're inside the house (cleaned at regular intervals). Consequently, they have no need to defecate [check your spelling] elsewhere, as confirmed by our surrounding neighbours.
And when they 'use' our garden, as it were, it's always discretely in a far away corner, then quickly covered up with soil or leaves. Cats have intrinsic needs the same as we do, so it's up to their owners to provide for them:D
Marco.
'Discreetly' [check your spelling].
Yup, thanks for that. Temporary brain fart:thumbsup:
Marco.
My cat was agnostic as far as music taste went. But he always would give a little start if the amp clipped. Better than a VU meter.
:lol:
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 19:25
Then blame cat owners for not giving their cats sufficient territory to shit in, which they can claim as their own...;)
We have three cats, and provide them with a large garden to use as they see fit, plus sufficient litter trays when they're inside the house (cleaned at regular intervals). Consequently, they have no need to defecate [check your spelling] elsewhere, as confirmed by our surrounding neighbours.
And when they 'use' our garden, as it were, it's always discretely in a far away corner, then quickly covered up with soil or leaves. Cats have intrinsic needs the same as we do, so it's up to their owners to provide for them:D
Marco.
Don’t talk to me about pissing craping pussies, and we have had four of them. Our newish neighbours cat has decided that our front garden flower beds are its litter tray, absolutely foul and stinky in the summer, so much so that we had to shit pick and get rid of it.
I get on very well with them so I have not had the heart to tell them and even fed the cat when they went away for a few days. I have resorted to putting citrus peelings in the flower beds, next Harry will be put out on guard duty, even though he is used to pussies.
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Unfortunately that's the problem, Adrian - folk decide to have pets but either refuse to take FULL responsibility for not only them, but their 'deposits', or simply don't have the intelligence to consider such things - or crucially even bother training them properly in the first place.
And that applies to cats, just as much as dogs. You can't just kick them out and wash your hands of their subsequent behaviour. YOU are responsible for them, so take that responsibility seriously. Many 'parents' today are equally as guilty of showing the same lack of responsibility for the behaviour of their kids...
And you can bet your boots they'll also be the ones with cats out all night shitting in everyone's gardens and causing chaos, or worse leaving dogs to roam the streets doing the same!:rolleyes:
Marco.
My ex-wife was very good at discerning differences whenever I made changes in my system, and was very good at describing those changes. Thing is though, she couldn't care less about those changes. I'm not suggesting that female women of the opposite sex have cloth ears, but rather that none of it matters to them. Also, (don't bite my head off) I think for MOST women (not all) the look of the hifi is more important than the sound.
I would agree with all of that, but you're right to be wary of stereotyping.
As far as Del's concerned, primarily she loves music, but also cares about how it sounds, although not to the geeky levels we do. However if something doesn't look that great but sounds superb (read as makes her favourite music sound great), then she'll willingly put up with the looks. She also LOVES BASS, and therefore realises that diddy-sized speakers don't cut it, which is why when choosing speakers, I have no problems with 'WAF'!:D
And I don't think I'm being chauvinistic when I state my belief that while most women like a nicely kept home, men are largely non-committal. Sure, men like it all to be nice, but aren't prepared to put in the hours themselves, unless they are in a position to make their home into a "look at me" statement piece.
Firstly, a home should *never* be a "look at me statement piece". It exists to be lived in and feel comfortable, not 'displayed', and anyone who seeks to exist in a 'show home' may have some psychological issues that they'd rather not care to admit...
We like a clean and tidy house, but not to obsessive levels, so aren't afraid of the odd bit of dirt or dust. Therefore whilst it's clean, we don't bleach everything to buggery! Besides, a bit of dirt is healthy and helps build your immune system:)
As for putting in the hours to keep the house clean and tidy, that's down to ME, not Del, and although I don't consider myself as one (as I dislike 'labels', lol), there are plenty of legitimate 'house husbands' out there who would challenge your assertion about cleaning just being 'women's work'!;)
As our increasingly materialistic culture has brought about a need for bigger incomes, so more women now go out to work, and this is bound to affect the roles at home.
Absolutely, and unfortunately it's indicative of today's society and the effects of rampant consumerism. We all want WAY more than we actually need, yet if we lived simpler, less materialistic lives, most of us would probably be much less stressed and a damn sight happier!
Marco.
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 20:41
Absolutely, and unfortunately it's indicative of today's society and the effects of rampant consumerism. We all want WAY more than we actually need, yet if we lived simpler, less materialistic lives, most of us would probably be much less stressed and a damn sight happier!
Marco.
Completely agree having worked in the fruity shop for nearly 10 years I have seen people from all walks of life who are completely obsessed about the newest and best phone, tablet or computer but really have no idea why. Accept they actually believe it will make them better and look better than others. Commercialism and marketing at its extreme, a mirror of what our society has come to, full of bullshit in my view. Off my to bed now and off my soap box.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Mike Reed
05-10-2019, 21:36
John, do you have an aversion to paragraphs?;)
Sorry, no offence, but I'm disinclined to read a word you've written, simply because everything is so jumbled up. :cool:
Marco.
Yes, it does require considerable stamina in concentration (which I don't possess either). Paragraphs are simply different thought processes applied to writing in a recognisably separate manner. (Sorry; teaching hat on).:)
Mike Reed
05-10-2019, 21:41
And when they 'use' our garden, as it were, it's always discretely in a far away corner,:D
Marco.
I would imagine the cats were both discreet and discrete, to be fair. I've never known moggies to poo in gangs.:lol:
My lady wiffie used to be consulted about s.q. fairly often. Not having a clue about hifi, nor even music for that matter, she was the exemplar of a lack of expectation bias and had a pair of lug-holes superior to mine. Unfortunately, an obsession with coding has eliminated this useful skill.
Completely agree having worked in the fruity shop for nearly 10 years I have seen people from all walks of life who are completely obsessed about the newest and best phone, tablet or computer but really have no idea why. Accept they actually believe it will make them better and look better than others. Commercialism and marketing at its extreme, a mirror of what our society has come to, full of bullshit in my view.
And in mine! Best not get ME started on my soap box, as it's one of my biggest bugbears, and so have many thoughts on the subject.. I simply can't understand or relate to that mentality, as it's an alien world. Apart from anything else, too many folks these days are obsessively concerned with how they're seen by others. Few are relaxed and comfortable in their own skin.
Marco.
I would imagine the cats were both discreet and discrete, to be fair. I've never known moggies to poo in gangs.:lol:
My lady wiffie used to be consulted about s.q. fairly often. Not having a clue about hifi, nor even music for that matter, she was the exemplar of lack of expectation bias and had a pair of lug-holes superior to mine. Unfortunately, an obsession with coding has eliminated this useful skill.
Lol, indeed... Interesting that the consensus of opinion so far seems to be that there's nothing wrong with the lugholes of the fairer sex!;)
Marco.
Yo, Piggurs... No thoughts on post 51?:)
Marco.
Oh yes!
"Firstly, a home should *never* be a "look at me statement piece". It exists to be lived in and feel comfortable, not 'displayed', and anyone who seeks to exist in a 'show home' may have some psychological issues that they'd rather not care to admit... "
"Absolutely, and unfortunately it's indicative of today's society and the effects of rampant consumerism. We all want WAY more than we actually need, yet if we lived simpler, less materialistic lives, most of us would probably be much less stressed and a damn sight happier!"
"Completely agree having worked in the fruity shop for nearly 10 years I have seen people from all walks of life who are completely obsessed about the newest and best phone, tablet or computer but really have no idea why. Accept they actually believe it will make them better and look better than others. Commercialism and marketing at its extreme, a mirror of what our society has come to, full of bullshit in my view. Off my to bed now and off my soap box."
"And in mine! Best not get ME started on my soap box, as it's one of my biggest bugbears, and so have many thoughts on the subject.. I simply can't understand or relate to that mentality, as it's an alien world. Apart from anything else, too many folks these days are obsessively concerned with how they're seen by others. Few are relaxed and comfortable in their own skin."
All these statements really define, or at least allude to a problem with our society IMO.
Rather than relate to others, interacting in friendships, we seem to have become an alienated race, whose main way of self validation is to show off by exhibiting a material status.
This is to me a form of displacement activity because it denies a very root instinct of our species, and in so doing denies much happiness and friendship. There are so many SUVs around me, each very capable, but I'm sure not used for their purpose, but for that of a status display item.
This is vacuous as a form of attempt to obtain life satisfaction, it is approval seeking, based on material acquisition, and, I 'will not play'; life is enriched by healthy interaction with others in which thoughts can be shared and discussed, and even argued about, but without bile and anger, not by showing off toys.
But there is great hope here because the ecological disaster which we have engendered is making us wake up and question our own existence, and especially the very young are aware of this, Greta for example.
If folk want to live in a "show home" its their choice. It wouldnt be mine; im far to lazy to achieve such level of neatness, and i'd be affraid to fart;).
I know an old woman who did live a bit like that. Old stuff but all immaculate. polished floors you could shave in... Dust? not a spot.... It was quite intimidating tbh and to me very uncomfortable, but hey, it wasn't my home.
If folk want to live in a "show home" its their choice. It wouldnt be mine; im far to lazy to achieve such level of neatness, and i'd be affraid to fart;).
I know an old woman who did live a bit like that. Old stuff but all immaculate. polished floors you could shave in... Dust? not a spot.... It was quite intimidating tbh and to me very uncomfortable, but hey, it wasn't my home.
It can be intimidating to visitors, who may well be disinclined to visit again.
Pigmy Pony
06-10-2019, 12:56
Yo, Piggurs... No thoughts on post 51?:)
Marco.
Not really - it appears me that we largely agree on all this, so all I can do is perhaps clarify one or two statements I made earlier.
Firstly, these "look at me" homes are I would say rather beyond yours or my budget, and so aren't really part of our world. They belong to the top 1%, footballers, performing artists, and those at the highest level in business. Their homes appear on TV programmes like "Through the Keyhole" and "Homes of the Rich and Famous". These homes' primary function is to wow onlookers, although even in these cases the men won't have much to do with the finer details of "making that house a home".
I stand by what I said about "nest builders" and "providers". I know there have been changes in the last 40 or so years, but largely it is still women who are more concerned with the finer details. It's not sexist of me to point at these differences - I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it just is. Certainly there will be exceptions, like your circumstances, and there is nothing wrong with that either.
Actually your domestic arrangements are quite similar to mine, except that Mrs. P is the one that stays at home. Nothing wrong with either set up, as it works for us, as it does for you and Del. The only difference is that you chose to retire early, whereas Anita, who is a few years younger than you, was forced to leave a job she really liked because of ill health. She is now still 15 years away from retirement age, but will never go out to work again.
I also stand by my comment about women having a good ear for hifi, but usually not giving a shit about it. Talk about youth being wasted on the young, good ears are wasted on most women. Except as somewhere to fix those big hoop ear rings, which make useful grab handles whenever she may be doing you a favour :eyebrows:
I probably ruined my entire post with that last sentence, but I'll leave it in anyway.
I must be fundamentally incurious. I couldn't give a toss whether someone buys a new iPhone every week or still has the first mobile they ever bought, whether they live in a 'show home' or a shack, whether they clean that home meticulously or just let the dust gather, what car(s) they drive, or how much money they've got and how they spend it. I simply don't see those things as any of my business.
It can be intimidating to visitors, who may well be disinclined to visit again.
indeed, as i was. she would ask me if i wanted to come in and i always had a good excuse ready. i just felt uncomfortable tbh. i was used to clean and tidy, but not to this level, but it was just her way, and she wanted showoffy about it.. just house proud, but it was just too much for a slob like me:lol:
I must be fundamentally incurious. I couldn't give a toss whether someone buys a new iPhone every week or still has the first mobile they ever bought, whether they live in a 'show home' or a shack, whether they clean that home meticulously or just let the dust gather, what car(s) they drive, or how much money they've got and how they spend it. I simply don't see those things as any of my business.
No, and I fully agree... *BUT* there's nothing wrong with making (valid) observations about human behaviour, how it has evolved through the decades, and criticising aspects of it now that you think aren't going in the right direction. It's a subject that interests me greatly.
So, you're missing the point. It's people's behaviour that fascinates me, not what they have or don't.
Marco.
If folk want to live in a "show home" its their choice. It wouldnt be mine; im far to lazy to achieve such level of neatness, and i'd be affraid to fart;).
I know an old woman who did live a bit like that. Old stuff but all immaculate. polished floors you could shave in... Dust? not a spot.... It was quite intimidating tbh and to me very uncomfortable, but hey, it wasn't my home.
Yes it's their choice, and I fully respect that, but it's definitely a form of OCD... Plus, I don't think that the old woman you've mentioned would quite fit the demographic I'm referring to.
Like you say, she was just "house proud", which was common in people of her generation, as they would've likely grown up (in austerity during war times) having very little in terms of material possessions, and so when she was in a position later in life to be able to afford to buy some nice things, she sought to look after them and keep them in good condition.
Therefore, it would've been more about preserving things she'd worked very hard to get, and keep nice, than about showing off. Most folk from that era were house proud. I admire that. The materialistic 'show offs' I'm referring to these days, however, are a rather different breed!
Marco.
No, and I fully agree... *BUT* there's nothing wrong with making (valid) observations about human behaviour, how it has evolved through the decades, and criticising aspects of it now that you think aren't going in the right direction. It's a subject that interests me greatly.
So, you're missing the point. It's people's behaviour that fascinates me, not what they have or don't.
Marco.
OK, but there's nothing new about people defining themselves through their possessions (and sometimes living beyond their means in their attempts to outdo their neighbours); it's been going on for thousands of years. It's the type of possessions that have changed, rather than the type of behaviour.
Firstly, these "look at me" homes are I would say rather beyond yours or my budget, and so aren't really part of our world. They belong to the top 1%, footballers, performing artists, and those at the highest level in business. Their homes appear on TV programmes like "Through the Keyhole" and "Homes of the Rich and Famous". These homes' primary function is to wow onlookers, although even in these cases the men won't have much to do with the finer details of "making that house a home".
Interesting... Then we're talking about rather different "look at me" types. I'm referring to the ones Adrian mentioned earlier, and whom he encountered in the Apple store:
having worked in the fruity shop for nearly 10 years I have seen people from all walks of life who are completely obsessed about the newest and best phone, tablet or computer but really have no idea why. Accept they actually believe it will make them better and look better than others.
...and there are millions of them worldwide. They're not especially wealthy, but they've been brainwashed into behaving as above. What intrigues me, is what DRIVES the behaviour of *those* "look at me types"?:hmm:
And there are more and more being similarly brainwashed daily... The key bit, in terms of the brainwashing, is indicated by the words: "but really have no idea why".
I stand by what I said about "nest builders" and "providers". I know there have been changes in the last 40 or so years, but largely it is still women who are more concerned with the finer details. It's not sexist of me to point at these differences - I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it just is. Certainly there will be exceptions, like your circumstances, and there is nothing wrong with that either.
Broadly, we agree. However, as far as the bit in bold goes, it depends on the work or social circles within which you frequent. If you're an 'arty' type or have an interest in interior design, and male [and there are plenty of us around], then the "finer details" matter a great deal;)
As an example, it took Del and I *months* to choose the colour for our bespoke-designed kitchen units, and almost as long to choose the style of handles for the drawers!:eyebrows:
Actually your domestic arrangements are quite similar to mine, except that Mrs. P is the one that stays at home. Nothing wrong with either set up, as it works for us, as it does for you and Del. The only difference is that you chose to retire early, whereas Anita, who is a few years younger than you, was forced to leave a job she really liked because of ill health. She is now still 15 years away from retirement age, but will never go out to work again.
Sorry to hear what happened to Anita. That must've been hard to take.
I also stand by my comment about women having a good ear for hifi, but usually not giving a shit about it. Talk about youth being wasted on the young, good ears are wasted on most women. Except as somewhere to fix those big hoop ear rings, which make useful grab handles whenever she may be doing you a favour :eyebrows:
I probably ruined my entire post with that last sentence, but I'll leave it in anyway.
Lol... Shall I play? No, I'll be a good boy for once!:D
Marco.
OK, but there's nothing new about people defining themselves through their possessions (and sometimes living beyond their means in their attempts to outdo their neighbours); it's been going on for thousands of years. It's the type of possessions that have changed, rather than the type of behaviour.
No I disagree, current modern technology has made materialistic behaviour worse than ever. However, it's pointless entering into a debate with you about it, as we'll never agree.
Marco.
Consumerism came out after ww2 in the USA. Affluence grew, people started buying houses in suburbia and changing cars every year. Wives filled house with every convenience. Fast food took off. TV took off.
Then they shipped it over here.
Yes, but it goes deeper than that now, as the brainwashing is far more insidious.
Marco.
Consumerism came out after ww2 in the USA. Affluence grew, people started buying houses in suburbia and changing cars every year. Wives filled house with every convenience. Fast food took off. TV took off.
Then they shipped it over here.
I'd say it changed with the introduction of easy credit - credit cards. 1970s or thereabouts. Prior to that only the professional middle classes could buy luxury goods to impress their friends. By the mid 1980s credit cards were ubiquitous so everyone could get in on the act.
Yup... And when the Internet arrived, and then smartphones, consumerism became much more widespread, and the brainwashing process (as cited earlier by Adrian) was further accelerated...
For me, that's a valid example of modern technology making things WORSE, not better. It would also be interesting to see the average UK personal debt figures for say, the 1970s, compared with now.
Marco.
Yup... And when the Internet arrived, and then smartphones, consumerism became much more widespread, and the brainwashing process (as cited earlier by Adrian) was further accelerated...
For me, that's a valid example of modern technology making things WORSE, not better. It would also be interesting to see the average UK personal debt figures for say, the 1970s, compared with now.
Marco.
I don't think there is a process. Displaying the material goods we have acquired in order to establish our status within a societal group dates back to at least the earliest recorded society. It's an inherent part of how we behave as a species. We don't need to be brainwashed into it. If there is brainwashing it's their attempting to convince us that one brand is better than another for the purpose of establishing status.
AJSki2fly
06-10-2019, 20:31
I don't think there is a process. Displaying the material goods we have acquired in order to establish our status within a societal group dates back to at least the earliest recorded society. It's an inherent part of how we behave as a species. We don't need to be brainwashed into it. If there is brainwashing it's their attempting to convince us that one brand is better than another for the purpose of establishing status.
Sorry Martin, but I do not think that is the whole picture. Where I work very subtle techniques or not so subtle, depending on how perceptive you are, are used to enforce the belief that the product is a must have as it will improve your life and life experience, and that not having one will mean you have made a poor choice, that will be viewed by others as such. It is very clever in how it is done and extremely effective, many different businesses use these methods to build brands and loyalty.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think there is a process. Displaying the material goods we have acquired in order to establish our status within a societal group dates back to at least the earliest recorded society. It's an inherent part of how we behave as a species. We don't need to be brainwashed into it. If there is brainwashing it's their attempting to convince us that one brand is better than another for the purpose of establishing status.
Yes, but only for those of a certain mindset, predisposed to such behaviour; some are more resistant to it. Not everyone is wired that way. I'm certainly not, and neither are many others I know.
If I were that way inclined, I'd own the latest smartphone, rather than an ancient mobile phone from the very early 2000s [what does that say about my "status"? And it's not like I can't afford one], drive a brand new battery-powered car, live in a modern house, fitted with all the latest smart features, organise my life around social media, etc, etc...
I *actively choose* to do precisely the OPPOSITE from what today is considered as the 'norm' or fashionable, and SHUN current technology unless I know it'll serve a useful purpose, first and foremost, for ME. I remember laughing when Piggurs tried to send a text message to my landline, because he thought it was a mobile number, as according to him, 'no-one uses landlines these days'!:D
The condition you refer to, as highlighted above, is not only inherent in humans, but can be further nurtured through subliminal/insidious forms of brainwashing, via the viral marketing campaigns of huge global organisations, such as Apple, Google and Amazon, and for me there is ample evidence showing that technology such as smartphones help facilitate and accelerate that brainwashing process.
So yes, it's partly about growing the brand, but it's also about who's behind the brand and what they're seeking to achieve/their end goal. The key word above is "viral", like the spreading of a disease (facilitated through social networks). Think about it;)
As an aside, what do you reckon would be revealed by the debt figure comparison I mentioned in my last post?
Marco.
"Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
OK, but there's nothing new about people defining themselves through their possessions (and sometimes living beyond their means in their attempts to outdo their neighbours); it's been going on for thousands of years. It's the type of possessions that have changed, rather than the type of behaviour."
"Consumerism came out after ww2 in the USA. Affluence grew, people started buying houses in suburbia and changing cars every year. Wives filled house with every convenience. Fast food took off. TV took off.
Then they shipped it over here. "
"Yes, but it goes deeper than that now, as the brainwashing is far more insidious."
A major cause was Freud's nephew Edward Bernays who developed the 'discipline' of public relations.
His stated aims were to get people to buy things on the basis of created 'wants', rather then their needs; they were then controllable.
He was responsible for the mass adoption of cigarette smoking, and look what that has done. It probably is also being used with food now, as well as many other consumables, and fuels compulsive behaviour.
A major cause was Freud's nephew Edward Bernays who developed the 'discipline' of public relations.
His stated aims were to get people to buy things on the basis of created 'wants', rather then their needs; they were then controllable.
He was responsible for the mass adoption of cigarette smoking, and look what that has done. It probably is also being used with food now, as well as many other consumables, and fuels compulsive behaviour.
All very true, Dennis, which is why I divorce myself, as far as possible, from being "controllable", achieved through deliberate and very carefully considered lifestyle choices. That's why it pays in some ways to be 'off grid'. Quite simply, I refuse to be a 'brainwashed sheep', one of the downtrodden masses caught up in today's rat race, or a puppet for the Establishment! I've fortunately also always been rather perceptive towards that;)
Plus, I've naturally never been prone to obsessive/compulsive behaviour, and as such easily addicted to things. All of that makes me less susceptible to being easily manipulated, brainwashed or controlled. Thing is, often you don't realise how much you've been sucked into that world, until you take a step back and look in the mirror...
Marco.
Mikeandvan
06-10-2019, 21:50
Bloody 'ell, this place is becoming like PFM.
Mikeandvan
06-10-2019, 22:00
In what way?
Marco.
All like intellectual and that.
Heh-heh... No, we're just semi-discerning daftees!:D
Marco.
Mikeandvan
06-10-2019, 22:29
Heh-heh... No, we're just semi-discerning daftees!:D
Marco.
Oh thank God for that. The off topic room in PFM is something to be observed. Weirdly its like the middle aged militant male only version of some super uptight student union association. You get ultra lefties and middle of the road types, but they all got one thing in common, political correctness, that's their creed, Blairites most of them, probably a lot of Lib dems amongst them too.
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2019, 06:57
Oh thank God for that. The off topic room in PFM is something to be observed. Weirdly its like the middle aged militant male only version of some super uptight student union association. You get ultra lefties and middle of the road types, but they all got one thing in common, political correctness, that's their creed, Blairites most of them, probably a lot of Lib dems amongst them too.
Sounds good to me, see ya later!
Only joking, I'm staying here with the thicko's, revolutionaries, technical geniuses, jokers, and er, Marco :D
Sorry Martin, but I do not think that is the whole picture. Where I work very subtle techniques or not so subtle, depending on how perceptive you are, are used to enforce the belief that the product is a must have as it will improve your life and life experience, and that not having one will mean you have made a poor choice, that will be viewed by others as such. It is very clever in how it is done and extremely effective, many different businesses use these methods to build brands and loyalty.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's pretty much what I said 'If there is brainwashing it's their attempting to convince us that one brand is better than another for the purpose of establishing status. '
Sounds good to me, see ya later!
Only joking, I'm staying here with the thicko's, revolutionaries, technical geniuses, jokers, and er, Marco :D
Yesh, I'm shpeshial (needs), sho have my very own categoree...:eyebrows:
Marco.
I'd say it changed with the introduction of easy credit - credit cards. 1970s or thereabouts. Prior to that only the professional middle classes could buy luxury goods to impress their friends. By the mid 1980s credit cards were ubiquitous so everyone could get in on the act.
Well, the Jeff Beck song 'Tallyman' (1967) was aimed at people buying things 'on tick', so people aspiring to things they couldn't afford was perceived as a problem even then. I've seen British newspaper articles from the 1930s condemning consumerism and materialism. As with all these things, once you look more closely at contemporary reports (rather than relying on rose-tinted specs) you realise that what seem to be purely modern ills have been around for decades, or even centuries.
Sorry Martin, but I do not think that is the whole picture. Where I work very subtle techniques or not so subtle, depending on how perceptive you are, are used to enforce the belief that the product is a must have as it will improve your life and life experience, and that not having one will mean you have made a poor choice, that will be viewed by others as such. It is very clever in how it is done and extremely effective, many different businesses use these methods to build brands and loyalty.
But surely they always have done? From the Rolling Stones 'Get Off My Cloud' (1965):
'Well I'm watching my TV when a man comes on who tells me
How white my shirts could be
But he can't be a man cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarettes as me'.
That's how advertising has to work: 'product A is better than product B, thus if you use product A you are a better person than those who use product B'. What I don't quite grasp is how advertising iPhones is any different from advertising any other product. Clearly if you have no interest in any sort of smartphone you will be immune from such advertising, but you are deluding yourself if you think that you are immune to all advertising unless you live in a shack in the back of beyond, grow your own food and weave your own clothes.
As with all these things, once you look more closely at contemporary reports (rather than relying on rose-tinted specs) you realise that what seem to be purely modern ills have been around for decades, or even centuries.
Not relying on "rose-tinted specs", Joe, but simply observing reality. I just look at what's happening in the world around me today. I don't need to read (likely biased, agenda-driven) "contemporary reports", and you'd need to be blind not to see that consumerism has become much worse now than it was in the 60s!
Yes, there is no denying that forms of consumerism, and folks buying things "on tick" has been happening for a very long time, but the FACT is, it's never been WORSE than it is now - and for reasons many of us here have stated.
I asked the question earlier, which so far has been patently ignored, about comparing UK personal debt figures from the 70s with those now.
You can go back to the 60s, if you like, or even the 30s, and I guarantee that the figures would show personal debt has been on the increase (sharp incline) for years, now at an all-time high, and it's because people are buying much more "stuff" than ever [which they've been 'told' that they need], and in many cases getting into huge debt to obtain it.
Marco.
What I don't quite grasp is how advertising iPhones is any different from advertising any other product.
It's not just Apple who are guilty of insidious and viral marketing, but many other big companies. The point is, the creation of the Internet, and subsequently smartphones (of any description), has made it much easier to brainwash people, without them even realising what's happened: that they've gradually been very subtly manipulated and controlled.
This stuff doesn't just happen overnight. It's a slow, but deliberate process. That's why I'm using the words "viral" and "insidious". You seem to be stubbornly resistant to considering any notion that doesn't fit with your belief system.
Marco.
Mike Reed
07-10-2019, 10:50
Fast food took off. TV took off.
Flights of fancy, perhaps?
Dennis, I get confused by your proliferation of speech marks ("...."). Sometimes it's direct speech and sometimes it's quotations ('.....') and sometimes it's neither; simply comment. I am (as you know) a bit punctilious in the application of punctuation and easily become befuddled by spurious marks. Now, where's my pills.......?
Mike Reed
07-10-2019, 11:02
Bloody 'ell, this place is becoming like PFM.
Well, I've never seen the Communist Manifesto rolled out on here, and pfm is a lower case for difference. :lol: However, that's only in 'Off Topic'. However, I am amazed by the political bias of audio enthusiasts on the whole, at least as portrayed on that forum's sub-heading over the years.
Mike Reed
07-10-2019, 11:19
Oh thank God for that. The off topic room in PFM is something to be observed. Weirdly, it's like the middle aged militant male-only version of some super uptight student union association. You get ultra lefties and middle of the road types, but they've all got one thing in common; political correctness; that's their creed. Blairites most of them, probably a lot of Lib Dems amongst them too.
Sorry; posted mine before coming across yours, which does indeed paint the picture. However, I think you're being somewhat benevolent in their portrayal as 'Blairites'. It is, as you say, reminiscent of student activism or just 'chip on the shoulder' politics. However, I'm gregarious in any good company regardless and it IS a very good audio forum, after all; not a political platform. (Marco, pls delete if inappropriate to the spirit of forum decorum).
Well, the Jeff Beck song 'Tallyman' (1967) was aimed at people buying things 'on tick', so people aspiring to things they couldn't afford was perceived as a problem even then. I've seen British newspaper articles from the 1930s condemning consumerism and materialism. As with all these things, once you look more closely at contemporary reports (rather than relying on rose-tinted specs) you realise that what seem to be purely modern ills have been around for decades, or even centuries.
I agree. As far as buying on tic goes, my recollection of the 1970s is that it was only used for essential items that could not be afforded in one hit - fridge, washer, vacuum cleaner, that sort of thing. Not Louis Vuitton handbags.
30's/40's/50's here it ws usually furniture etc that was mostly got on tick. But yes, you could get food or anything. And yes, credit cards have a lot to answer for when they became easy to get for folk who really couldnt affoerd them or use them correctly.
I agree. As far as buying on tic goes, my recollection of the 1970s is that it was only used for essential items that could not be afforded in one hit - fridge, washer, vacuum cleaner, that sort of thing. Not Louis Vuitton handbags.
Both Joe and you are still missing the point though [as I've stated umpteen times now], or deliberately avoiding considering it.
Marco.
Both Joe and you are still missing the point though [as I've stated umpteen times now], or deliberately avoiding considering it.
Marco.
I'm not entirely sure what your point is. That the internet has made consumerism more rampant?
I'm not entirely sure what your point is. That the internet has made consumerism more rampant?
Well, I write very clearly in plain English, so it should be obvious. Yes, that's one of them, but also about the wider aspect of its repercussions, and the issue of brainwashing and control. Scroll back and read my last half-dozen posts again, and this time digest the content.
Sorry, but it's *really* frustrating conducting discussions on forums, when the people you're communicating with aren't paying proper attention, so you have to keep going round and round in circles repeating yourself, waiting for the point you're making to eventually be acknowledged... The difference with me, however, is that I'll keep on going until it is!;)
It's one of the reasons why there are so many circular arguments, because people seldom actually *read what is written in front of them*. Most often it appears that the content is only glanced at, and the missing bits subliminally filled in instead by the reader's own bias....:rolleyes:
Therefore the phrase: 'Only seeing what you WANT to see', seems most apt.
Marco.
I read what you wrote but it all seems pretty general. Can you give a specific example of what you're talking about?
If you'd been paying attention, you wouldn't have needed to ask me that;)
Try post 75, for starters, where I was replying directly to you, after having quoted you, and to which I've received so far no response...:doh:
Bloody hell, it's hard work!!:ner:
Marco.
Yes, but only for those of a certain mindset, predisposed to such behaviour; some are more resistant to it. Not everyone is wired that way. I'm certainly not, and neither are many others I know.
If I were that way inclined, I'd own the latest smartphone, rather than an ancient mobile phone from the very early 2000s [what does that say about my "status"? And it's not like I can't afford one], drive a brand new battery-powered car, live in a modern house, fitted with all the latest smart features, organise my life around social media, etc, etc...
I *actively choose* to do precisely the OPPOSITE from what today is considered as the 'norm' or fashionable, and SHUN current technology unless I know it'll serve a useful purpose, first and foremost, for ME. I remember laughing when Piggurs tried to send a text message to my landline, because he thought it was a mobile number, as according to him, 'no-one uses landlines these days'!:D
The condition you refer to, as highlighted above, is not only inherent in humans, but can be further nurtured through subliminal/insidious forms of brainwashing, via the viral marketing campaigns of huge global organisations, such as Apple, Google and Amazon, and for me there is ample evidence showing that technology such as smartphones help facilitate and accelerate that brainwashing process.
So yes, it's partly about growing the brand, but it's also about who's behind the brand and what they're seeking to achieve/their end goal. The key word above is "viral", like the spreading of a disease (facilitated through social networks). Think about it;)
As an aside, what do you reckon would be revealed by the debt figure comparison I mentioned in my last post?
Marco.
Not everyone is going to be attracted by the same things. You may have no interest in smartphones, but you do have other interests which you are happy to spend money on. I don't think any of us can claim that we are not affected by advertising, peer pressure, desire to display status and so on. Maybe to greater and lesser degrees but given it is a subconscious influence it seems to me to be a little naïve for anyone to say they are not influenced to some degree.
As far as the internet goes I'd probably agree prima face that it has made it easier for a brand to influence. On the other hand if you look at success rates for internet advertising they are generally quite poor. Much less effective than television or print advertising are. Or were since both are now on the decline.
No question there is a lot more debt now than there was 30 or 40 years ago. Whether the internet is responsible I don't know. Credit became much easy to obtain over that period so I'd suggest that would certainly account for the lion's share of the reason. Hard to get into debt if no-one will lend you money.
As for the 'brainwashing' that is also as old as the hills. Religion and patriotism were always quite effective as a means of control. IME the greater mass of people are always looking for something to believe in or a leader to follow. Again I would say that is an innate part of what we are, not something that has been created in us, and certainly not a recent thing.
Ah, so you've noticed it now! Admit it you missed that post before because you're weren't paying proper attention!:ner:
:D
Anyway, I'll attend to your (somewhat tardy) response after lunch.
Marco.
In the meantime, please read post 77, specifically noting the following, plus what preceded it (including what Dennis wrote and I quoted and highlighted):
I've naturally never been prone to obsessive/compulsive behaviour, and as such easily addicted to things. All of that makes me *less susceptible* to being easily manipulated, brainwashed or controlled.
My (now) added emphasis. Note the words: "less susceptible". And I'd say that I'm probably much less susceptible than most, for reasons given.
I didn't say that I wasn't influenced to some degree or immune. That would be humanly impossible.
Marco.
AJSki2fly
07-10-2019, 13:46
As far as the internet goes I'd probably agree prima face that it has made it easier for a brand to influence. On the other hand if you look at success rates for internet advertising they are generally quite poor. Much less effective than television or print advertising are. Or were since both are now on the decline.
No question there is a lot more debt now than there was 30 or 40 years ago. Whether the internet is responsible I don't know. Credit became much easy to obtain over that period so I'd suggest that would certainly account for the lion's share of the reason. Hard to get into debt if no-one will lend you money.
As for the 'brainwashing' that is also as old as the hills. Religion and patriotism were always quite effective as a means of control. IME the greater mass of people are always looking for something to believe in or a leader to follow. Again I would say that is an innate part of what we are, not something that has been created in us, and certainly not a recent thing.
First point: Sorry I think you are wrong here, there is a huge amount of time and money put into advertising and e-Commerce sites across the world
to gain leverage and advantage over competitors in the the commercial world across all sorts of businesses. I would site the rise of internet shopping and the gradual demise of the high street as being one example of its success. Virtually every major player in the market place has a presence on the internet, if they don't then they are dead in the water.
Green point: Businesses and banks realised through the 70's, and 80's that to expand business and make money that the masses in the mass market had to be given a vehicle to own stuff, whether needed or not. So the ability to borrow money on loans and credit cards was made easier, in some cases this was even under-written by major manufacturers and still is today, they negotiate deals with banks to make available large pots of money for consumers to purchase their items at preferential rates. This is a win/win for both the retailer and the bank, especially if the product is and easy sell. Hence the so called 0% credits options, and PCP car loans etc. If any one thinks these type of deals cost the consumer nothing then think again, it is all built into the price. So in essence we all were given the opportunity to borrow to buy stuff to grow commercialism.
Blue point: Well yes, in history there are all sort of aspects where large masses of people have been lead or made to believe in doing something for the greater good or to fight evil as perceived. However looking at the commercial aspects of the retail world over the last 50 years then it can easily be seen that as technology has advanced the ability to invade someones free space and persistently implant the desire or belief that an individual must have a particular product has become much easier to achieve, ultimately subliminal brain-washing. It is a known fact that if you subject a human brain to something for long enough and for enough times they will be affected by that, be it desire, revulsion, belief or fear. That does not mean that allowing large corporations to do so is right, think about selling cigarettes and advertising of them.
However looking at the commercial aspects of the retail world over the last 50 years then it can easily be seen that as technology has advanced the ability to invade someones free space and persistently implant the desire or belief that an individual must have a particular product has become much easier to achieve, ultimately subliminal brain-washing.
I completely agree, Adrian (and also with the rest of your post). The bit above, however, is partly the point I've been trying to make to Martin (and also Joe) - and crucially - get them both to acknowledge, as unfortunately it's reality.
The fact is, both the Internet and other forms of modern technology (especially smartphones), have made it easier to subliminally brainwash people, by connecting to them via their smart devices. Think about that for a moment... Martin has admitted that it has made it easier for a brand to influence, and so quite simply, if it's easier for them to influence, then it's also easier for them to control your behaviour, for whatever purpose they desire, especially if you're easily led/susceptible to being brainwashed, as touched upon earlier.
And THAT, my friends, whether you care to admit it or not, is precisely (and ever-increasingly) what's been happening for years, ever since the dawn of said technology - and those behind the mind-control are getting ever better at it and less scrupulous! It's how the virtual world works, and indeed can also be misused.
The phrase "being connected" (as outlined above) is continually bandied around, whenever today's smart technology is discussed, but have you ever taken a step back, applied some lateral thinking, and wondered what they [the powers that be] might actually want you connected to...?
And therefore also why being 'off grid' [thus disconnected] is often frowned upon these days, perhaps because the powers that be are actively trying so hard to 'connect' everyone, and because being 'off grid' helps prevent the brainwash, and also acts as a possible antidote to it..?
Quite simply because, if you're 'off-grid' then you can't be connected to and perhaps controlled. "Smart devices" indeed, and of course everyone wants to make the smart choice, and be considered as smart [great subliminal mind-control there, which is why they play on the word 'smart'] - but one wonders mostly "smart" for whom?
Food for thought perhaps...
Marco.
First point: Sorry I think you are wrong here, there is a huge amount of time and money put into advertising and e-Commerce sites across the world
to gain leverage and advantage over competitors in the the commercial world across all sorts of businesses. I would site the rise of internet shopping and the gradual demise of the high street as being one example of its success. Virtually every major player in the market place has a presence on the internet, if they don't then they are dead in the water.
.
I agree there is a huge amount invested in on-line advertising however it is a fact that it's effectiveness as an advertising medium is in question - see this article here https://medium.com/digital-vault/the-effectiveness-of-online-advertising-is-a-delusion-75b3ea7027e9
I'd suggest that people use internet shopping because it is less bother, and often less expensive, than physically going to a shop to buy the item. In other words there is a genuine gain to be had. I don't agree that the rise of internet shopping is a result of internet advertising. It has become popular because it is cheaper and more convenient.
In general I have never been keen on arguments that go along the lines of 'This insidious practice does not affect me because I'm smart, but what about all the stupid people? Something must be done!'
The smart people are not as smart as they think they are and the stupid people are not as stupid as the smart people reckon.
Accepting for the sake of argument the premise that smartphones 'control behaviour' and that their near-ubiquity is all part of some vast conspiracy, what is the aim? What precisely are we being 'controlled' into doing, and for what purpose? Smartphones are a tool, and can be/have been used for arranging anti-authority events such as the 'Extinction Rebellion' protests and the Hong Kong demos against China. It's no coincidence that authoritarian regimes want to limit citizens' access to the Internet, which they see as a threat to their ability to control people.
In general I have never been keen on arguments that go along the lines of 'This insidious practice does not affect me because I'm smart, but what about all the stupid people? Something must be done!'
The smart people are not as smart as they think they are and the stupid people are not as stupid as the smart people reckon.
See my last paragraph on post 104, for my view on "smart";)
Marco.
Accepting for the sake of argument the premise that smartphones 'control behaviour' and that their near-ubiquity is all part of some vast conspiracy, what is the aim? What precisely are we being 'controlled' into doing, and for what purpose?
Google for [key exactly the following into your search box] "How the world really works - Rothschild". And do some research into the subject - with an open mind - and a genuine willingness to challenge and question your current beliefs.
Marco.
This is also an interesting article, in terms of highlighting the sort of 'power games' played by the establishment and elite, and how they get together to manipulate the rest of the world for their benefit [yet more power and financial gain]: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-corfu-controversy-how-the-world-really-works-973817.html
It touches upon the controlling of behaviour Adrian and I have been referring to, by utilising and misusing today's technology - and how if you have enough power and influence over others, you can achieve ultimate rule. That is the world that the elite seek to create in future, and we are simply their disposable pawns in the whole corrupt system.
Marco.
AJSki2fly
07-10-2019, 15:30
Accepting for the sake of argument the premise that smartphones 'control behaviour' and that their near-ubiquity is all part of some vast conspiracy, what is the aim? What precisely are we being 'controlled' into doing, and for what purpose? Smartphones are a tool, and can be/have been used for arranging anti-authority events such as the 'Extinction Rebellion' protests and the Hong Kong demos against China. It's no coincidence that authoritarian regimes want to limit citizens' access to the Internet, which they see as a threat to their ability to control people.
Virtually any tool including a SMARTphone can be used for good or bad, a good use example is when it is connected to a SMARTwatch that monitors heart rate, and can take an ECG and if anything bad is detected notifies the person or a doctor, the Apple products and a specific app are capable of doing so and is in use in the USA and I believe is under trial in the UK. There are many other examples of good use, a bad use, IMO, is when apps and operating systems have code imbedded in them which learn/monitor what you do on the internet/device and then bombard you with adverts and email from commercial organisations to show you stuff to entice you to buy. We are all familiar with pop-ups on computers, it has now moved on where what you see on web pages, and social media pages is based on what you look at on phones and computers. Another aspect of this is if you search for a particular product, say and air flight to find the best price and you repeat this over several days you will discover that the price with different parties will actually increase, why is this you may ask, it is because the more interest that an individual shows in an item then the more the seller will try and charge for it, true commercialism, so another bad use, market manipulation.
A bad tool I can think of is an Atom or Hydrogen Bomb, not much use really apart from killing several million people in one hit and leaving the area it hits radioactive for many years, but I am sure there are some out there that will argue it has its good uses.
Any views on post 104, particularly in reference to my points about being "connected" and "Smart, mostly for whom"?
Marco.
I completely agree, Adrian (and also with the rest of your post). The bit above, however, is partly the point I've been trying to make to Martin (and also Joe) - and crucially - get them both to acknowledge, as unfortunately it's reality.
The fact is, both the Internet and other forms of modern technology (especially smartphones), have made it easier to subliminally brainwash people, by connecting to them via their smart devices. Think about that for a moment... Martin has admitted that it has made it easier for a brand to influence, and so quite simply, if it's easier for them to influence, then it's also easier for them to control your behaviour, for whatever purpose they desire, especially if you're easily led/susceptible to being brainwashed, as touched upon earlier.
And THAT, my friends, whether you care to admit it or not, is precisely (and ever-increasingly) what's been happening for years, ever since the dawn of said technology - and those behind the mind-control are getting ever better at it and less scrupulous! It's how the virtual world works, and indeed can also be misused.
The phrase "being connected" (as outlined above) is continually bandied around, whenever today's smart technology is discussed, but have you ever taken a step back, applied some lateral thinking, and wondered what they [the powers that be] might actually want you connected to...?
And therefore also why being 'off grid' [thus disconnected] is often frowned upon these days, perhaps because the powers that be are actively trying so hard to 'connect' everyone, and because being 'off grid' helps prevent the brainwash, and also acts as a possible antidote to it..?
Quite simply because, if you're 'off-grid' then you can't be connected to and perhaps controlled. "Smart devices" indeed, and of course everyone wants to make the smart choice, and be considered as smart [great subliminal mind-control there, which is why they play on the word 'smart'] - but one wonders mostly "smart" for whom?
Food for thought perhaps...
Marco.
I would say its more, "wanting to have the ability to place anyone, anywhere, if they want" and that is more incieous that any ad.
So you agree that there's something insidious going on? What about my points about "connected" to what, and "Smart" mostly for whom?
Marco.
So you agree that there's something insidious going on? What about my points about "connected" to what, and "Smart" for whom?
Marco.
I agree there could be, and may be more in future as tech moves on and Govts get more freedom. It was a phone that caught Bin Laden I think, and others too. Now maybe at moment we are just seeing the tip of a pretty massive iceberg.
Mrs Gaz is oblivious to sound quality, according to her the only difference between her Pure dab radio/alarm and my system is that mine is louder.
The weird thing is that her hearing is so good that, in a restaurant, she can hold a conversation whilst listening to two others on adjacent tables.
Odd
Google for [key exactly the following into your search box] "How the world really works - Rothschild". And do some research into the subject - with an open mind - and a genuine willingness to challenge and question your current beliefs.
Marco.
I don't think the idea that wealthy people have influence over politics is a surprise to anyone. Nor is it a new thing.
It's one thing to say that the internet enables people to advertise their tat more selectively. (although see my previous post where I linked to an article about the relative ineffectiveness of internet advertising compared to advertising in the press or television).
It's more of a leap to suggest that it could be used to control behaviour in a wider sense. On balance I'm more inclined to agree with Joe that it's more of a threat to governments - by enabling large numbers of people to instantly communicate and organise, and by providing alternative viewpoints to the 'party line'. Isn't this why the internet is heavily controlled and censored in authoritarian regimes like China?
Firstly, I apologise Mike if my use of inverted commas is wrong.
I use a double quotation mark in a direct quote, for example, he said "I'm happy", and a single one to denote a metaphorical term, for example; She is 'hot'. this latter is not referring to her temperature, and it is demanding that the reader do work in order to understand it, (parentheses).
From Marco;
"That's why it pays in some ways to be 'off grid'. Quite simply, I refuse to be a 'brainwashed sheep', one of the downtrodden masses caught up in today's rat race, or a puppet for the Establishment! I've fortunately also always been rather perceptive towards that"
I do not have a mobile phone, (roars of laughter), I muse a PC and a Mac, and receive and make important calls by landline.
In my view capitalism is now extremely predatory. It is not any longer based on a provider merely fulfilling the needs of the public consumer and in so doing making a profit. It is increasingly trying to get us to release our money in any way it can, and control of us by influence resulting from constant 'nudging' is rampant. (See the commas Mike?).
It is insidious because our mobiles are really rather intimate and personal devices, and just after we have said to our wife "I'll be ten minutes late darling" we get a recommendation to buy something, and this is invasive.
We also have seen what Cambridge Analytica has done with regard to 'mining' our data and hence our lives, and this extends now to personality profiling; they are building up a picture of each of us, and our geographical position is monitored.
As a species we tend to want the approval of the group, and Solomon Asch did experiments to see to what degree we are individual in our choices and remain so under pressure, even if that pressure is only that of feeling alienated by having a view differing from others. This is ontological (in)security, and has enormous social and political implications and ramifications.
Money, and all we buy with it, are tools for living, and IMO we should make internal decisions about our lives and how we want to live them, and then buy what is needed to facilitate that. I have beautiful speakers not to show off to the world - no public exposure - very few will see them, but because I love music well reproduced so much.
The ecology is telling us that we cannot go on turning the earth into a vast rubbish tip, and the very young are realising this more than the rest of us, thank God, but I hope it is not too late.
, But it doesnt take much stretch of imagination to see modern tech improvements being used against us, the people as well.
Can you provide a hypothetical scenario of how that might work?
Google for [key exactly the following into your search box] "How the world really works - Rothschild". And do some research into the subject - with an open mind - and a genuine willingness to challenge and question your current beliefs.
Marco.
It's a confused mish-mash of quotes from here there and everywhere, with few references to check. Some quotes are just plain wrong. To pick one at random:
'During a war you will never see the Vatican, City of London or Switzerland get attacked. On the grand chessboard these are considered neutral ground because it is where all the money flows. Without money to fund war, there is no war."
The City Of London was bombed to buggery in WW2; see http://bombsight.org/explore/greater-london/city-of-london/
To an extent its all already there on a phone and other devices and is being used. It wouldn't be too difficult to make it work even when off too. And all the profiles go yo a central computer system etc
Sure, it can work that way too, and China does control its web as does N Korea, But it doesnt take much stretch of imagination to see modern tech improvements being used against us, the people as well. Not saying it currently is, at least on any large and deep scale but i bet its on the agenda of the secret service and govts.
Trouble is, if its done right it may be difficult to know.
The current tussle is between Facebook, which wants to allow end-to-end encryption to protect users' privacy, and governments, who claim that allowing this will enable terrorists and paedophiles to hide their activities. It's not a good vs bad scenario, more a 'which is the lesser evil?' question.
It's a confused mish-mash of quotes from here there and everywhere, with few references to check. Some quotes are just plain wrong.
Or more likely also a case of you simply criticising what you think is wrong, seeing what you want to see, and ignoring the rest.
You make no mention of whether you've Googled what I asked you to either, only that you've read the article I linked to from The Independent. Sorry, Joe, your mind is closed. All I see is someone who just likes arguing for the sake of it, which indeed you've already admitted:
I enjoy arguing the toss, and posting on a variety of forums gives me lots of things to argue about!
Indeed. You enjoy arguing, but you're not so keen on listening or entertaining the existence of anything that isn't rationalised by your belief system:rolleyes:
Dennis 'gets' it, as does Adrian and Grant, so I shall take solace from the fact that there is hope yet for not everyone being blind to what's happening because it doesn't suit their prejudices.
Marco.
If you look up Mass surveillance in China
You will find info. It's pretty scary stuff and with the speed it's developing... Watch out
AJSki2fly
07-10-2019, 18:21
Can you be more specific about the 'people management' thing. What are the nuts and bolts of it and what are they managing the people to do?
Really Martin, I don’t think I should need to answer this, web site control and information management, basically propaganda and restricting free speech.
jandl100
07-10-2019, 18:25
I'd suggest that people use internet shopping because it is less bother, and often less expensive, than physically going to a shop to buy the item. In other words there is a genuine gain to be had. I don't agree that the rise of internet shopping is a result of internet advertising. It has become popular because it is cheaper and more convenient.
I agree pretty much 100% with that.
I use internet shopping for its ability to find the product I want at a good price. Shops just can't have all the stock readily to hand like a big warehouse can.
That's a really major advantage of online shopping and is the reason that I use it. And it has bugger all to do with internet advertising.
I can only think of one occasion when I have been influenced by online advertising (Facebook as it happens), a clever sunshade doohickey for a car - so I looked out the best deal on the type of product and bought that on Amazon. And I still use it. It's neat and effective.
In general I have never been keen on arguments that go along the lines of 'This insidious practice does not affect me because I'm smart, but what about all the stupid people? Something must be done!'
The smart people are not as smart as they think they are and the stupid people are not as stupid as the smart people reckon.
:lol:
Too right.
jandl100
07-10-2019, 18:35
If you look up Mass surveillance in China
You will find info. It's pretty scary stuff and with the speed it's developing... Watch out
Yup, the Chinese people appear to be willingly and knowingly heading for a combination of Brave New World and '1984'.
Absolutely crazy and scary as hell.
Total control by the state of the people.
I agree pretty much 100% with that.
I use internet shopping for its ability to find the product I want at a good price. Shops just can't have all the stock readily to hand like a big warehouse can.
But Jerry, Internet shopping is soulless, as it's devoid of any tactile experience or human interaction, providing of course that you're using the right shops. And we all wonder why our high streets are dying...?
Where you live, there's no shortage of picturesque towns, full of quaint little shops, many of which are privately owned and sell some very interesting things, as indeed there are near me. When it comes to gift shopping or buying things for the house, etc, where possible, I'll always choose to frequent those than give my money to the likes of Amazon, otherwise I become part of the problem I'm criticising.
Marco.
jandl100
07-10-2019, 19:10
Oh, I use quaint little shops often enough. Charity shops whenever possible!
But there are numerous specific items that I need on a repeat basis. There's a lot of pet food that I can only readily obtain online; large bags of biscuits, specific fish food. You'd hunt high and low without success to find those items offline, but are easy to source on the Internet . We've got half a dozen tropical aquariums now, it can be very difficult to find the items we want, when we want them by going to a bricks and mortar shop. A few keyboard clicks and they are on their way.
Not many shops that cater for my needs around here bar food.
I don't mind shopping but it gets silly when you find the shop doesn't carry the stock you want to see, and you have to order online etc. Clothes especially.
Oh, I use quaint little shops often enough. Charity shops whenever possible!
But there are numerous specific items that I need on a repeat basis. There's a lot of pet food that I can only readily obtain online; large bags of biscuits, specific fish food. You'd hunt high and low without success to find those items offline, but are easy to source on the Internet . We've got half a dozen tropical aquariums now, it can be very difficult to find the items we want, when we want them by going to a bricks and mortar shop. A few keyboard clicks and they are on their way.
Ah ok, that's different - using the 'net for buying specific things, not everything. We do the same, but we much prefer going into a town or village (or even a city, as Chester is great for that for us) and making a day of it, having a nice lunch, and giving our money to family-run businesses, rather than huge multi-national or worldwide retail chains, online or on the high street.
For us, physically shopping, rather than simply mouse-clicking is a much more rewarding experience:)
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2019, 20:43
Well, we're up to page 14 of this "women hifi owners thread, and not a single woman has posted. Probably because their too busy enjoying their hifis. Or maybe they're just not fans of Citizen Smith :D
There was another thread recently which 'evolved' in much the same way, using the same words (smartphones, insidious, controlling, brainwashing), and I asked a question along the lines of "What are we supposed to do with this 'information', or is it enough to be aware that it exists? (Sorry Mike, if my quotation marks are all over the shop). I don't think the question was answered.
I would be genuinely interested to know what I should be doing to keep myself and my money safe. To facilitate this, here's a bit of self-profiling:
I have a smartphone a refurbished iPhone 5, bought for £60 from Amazon, used with a £13 a month sim-only contract. No one has tried to persuade me that my phone is cack and needs upgrading. I use the Sat Nav, BBC Weather, and sometimes the alarm to get me out of bed. Oh and I take the occasional photo.
I buy stuff off Amazon sometimes (or rather Mrs. P does it for me. Using the laptop.
I've bought a few Makita power tools recently, on the recommendations of workmates. Perhaps it's a conspiracy to brainwash me, but more likely it's because they're good tools :)
Don't read newspapers, and Sky Plus my way through TV adverts.
My total personal debt is £620, which is the last 4 repayments for my van. And I'm overdrawn about £300 on one of my accounts.
SHOULD I BE WORRIED?
Should we be doing something, or is it enough just to be aware? Or should I be spreading the word to 3 others, bit like pyramid selling? :D
Really Martin, I don’t think I should need to answer this, web site control and information management, basically propaganda and restricting free speech.
Okay, I was wondering if they had some other angle on it that I didn't know about and hadn't thought of.
Pigmy Pony
07-10-2019, 21:00
But surely they always have done? From the Rolling Stones 'Get Off My Cloud' (1965):
'Well I'm watching my TV when a man comes on who tells me
How white my shirts could be
But he can't be a man cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarettes as me'.
That's how advertising has to work: 'product A is better than product B, thus if you use product A you are a better person than those who use product B'. What I don't quite grasp is how advertising iPhones is any different from advertising any other product. Clearly if you have no interest in any sort of smartphone you will be immune from such advertising, but you are deluding yourself if you think that you are immune to all advertising unless you live in a shack in the back of beyond, grow your own food and weave your own clothes.
Smart-arse alert! (sorry Joe)
Think that song was "(I can't get no) Satisfaction".
Smart-arse alert! (sorry Joe)
Think that song was "(I can't get no) Satisfaction".
Indeed. I wondered why it didn't show up on the lyrics for 'Get Off My Cloud'. That song had the bit about 'my kind of detergent pack'.
It is important regarding adverts to, as Mac OS 9.1 and earlier, have an input filter with which to remove stuff you know is trying to 'push your buttons'.
When watching TV, and the noxious ads, see if you actually buy any of the advertised items, I seem to buy none.
Lastly my law, arrived at some years ago and derived from; "Possession is nine tenths of the law",
"Self possession is nine tenths of achievement." Be self possessed.
Mikeandvan
08-10-2019, 00:44
Sorry; posted mine before coming across yours, which does indeed paint the picture. However, I think you're being somewhat benevolent in their portrayal as 'Blairites'. It is, as you say, reminiscent of student activism or just 'chip on the shoulder' politics. However, I'm gregarious in any good company regardless and it IS a very good audio forum, after all; not a political platform. (Marco, pls delete if inappropriate to the spirit of forum decorum).
Yeh its a good audio forum, but the off topic room is hardcore, as soon as dissenting views are aired they are jumped on viscously! You should have seen the furore over Boris' 'Humbug' comment in parliament, dark mutterings about the onset of fascism! I call them the PFM fainting ladies.
AJSki2fly
08-10-2019, 06:05
SHOULD I BE WORRIED?
Should we be doing something, or is it enough just to be aware? Or should I be spreading the word to 3 others, bit like pyramid selling? :D
It sounds like your exposure to advertising, internet and social media is limited and at a nice controlled level.so hopefully you are getting minimal spam emails, and just ignore any stupid adverts that happen to pop up. So in answer no you don’t need to worry, but maybe you should persuade you children/ grand children, if you are so blessed, to show similar restraint.
By the way this morning I got an email offering me free trial of a drug to help with nerve pain related to peripheral neuropathy, how anyone knows I have this issue is beyond me. But I suspect somewhere in the digital ether there is an email or comment relating to me and my medical problems, or other medical issues and associated the two. Alternatively it was probably an age related spam email trying to get access to my personal info. Quite insidious and worrying IMO.
So remember be aware and be cautious about what you say and do on the WWW on any platform.
Pigmy Pony
08-10-2019, 06:23
It sounds like your exposure to advertising, internet and social media is limited and at a nice controlled level.so hopefully you are getting minimal spam emails, and just ignore any stupid adverts that happen to pop up. So in answer no you don’t need to worry, but maybe you should persuade you children/ grand children, if you are so blessed, to show similar restraint.
By the way this morning I got an email offering me free trial of a drug to help with nerve pain related to peripheral neuropathy, how anyone knows I have this issue is beyond me. But I suspect somewhere in the digital ether there is an email or comment relating to me and my medical problems, or other medical issues and associated the two. Alternatively it was probably an age related spam email trying to get access to my personal info. Quite insidious and worrying IMO.
So remember be aware and be cautious about what you say and do on the WWW on any platform.
The worrying thing is the possibility that your (confidential) medical records can be accessed. I'm not saying that the drug companies themselves can directly gain access, but may be willing to pay an unscrupulous third party for such information, and as with a lot of things online, accountability is thin on the ground. And from what I can see, no one seems to be trying very hard to deal with this.
AJSki2fly
08-10-2019, 06:33
The worrying thing is the possibility that your (confidential) medical records can be accessed. I'm not saying that the drug companies themselves can directly gain access, but may be willing to pay an unscrupulous third party for such information, and as with a lot of things online, accountability is thin on the ground. And from what I can see, no one seems to be trying very hard to deal with this.
It’s probably not that, more likely that an unencrypted email sent by some one with my name on or in it with some comment about my medical conditions. So that could be from anyone, medical or non-medical, a relative. Possibly some remark on some social media, like Whatsapp, Facebook or similar, then it gets picked up and associated and bingo you get some email or advertising your way. This what I and Marco are highlighting plus other stuff.
Yeh its a good audio forum, but the off topic room is hardcore, as soon as dissenting views are aired they are jumped on viscously! You should have seen the furore over Boris' 'Humbug' comment in parliament, dark mutterings about the onset of fascism! I call them the PFM fainting ladies.
Lol... It is a good forum, run in the correct manner by someone dedicated to the task, who had a vision for what he wanted to create, and duly created it. The politics-heavy nature of the off-topic room is entirely due to Tony, as it's his passion (he's a rather political animal), and he nurtured it. That's not to say though that he necessarily agrees with some of the more extreme views expressed there!
Forums will always inevitably reflect the interests and passions of their owners, especially the off-topic sections, where away from hi-fi discussions, you often get to find out what makes 'people tick' [it's often the 'beating heart' of a forum, and where a genuine community and friendships are built], and which is why the off-topic section here is so different from the one on pfm...:eek:
I'm far more interested in talking about food and drink than politics!:D
Marco.
In August last year when my health problems occurred, I suddenly started to receive many related postal ads, and after a little enquiring with the NHS also contacted a some of them.
This revealed a company dedicated to deriving data and sending it to companies which paid for it, and receiving a profit from that process. They are treating us as a commodity.
All I currently get is advertising about Cloud computing and presentation software, relating to a job I retired from six years ago. I may start getting emails relating to my research, but it's fairly 'niche', so I'm not sure what product(s) would be aimed at me. The complete works of Samuel Taylor Coleridge, maybe.
AJSki2fly
08-10-2019, 09:12
In August last year when my health problems occurred, I suddenly started to receive many related postal ads, and after a little enquiring with the NHS also contacted a some of them.
This revealed a company dedicated to deriving data and sending it to companies which paid for it, and receiving a profit from that process. They are treating us as a commodity.
Yes, that confirms my suspisions related to similar emails in the past relating to health, age and pensions etc. All focused on particular aspects of my personal life, that would have to be obtained through 3rd parties or skimming aspects of my internet activity. Unfortunately being off-grid is virtually impossible nowadays because even as individuals if you manage to hide yourself behind anonymous online ID's and go through proxy servers etc, there are 3rd parties out there that you have to deal with that have data relating to you, effectively a digital footprint of your ID and what you do. How accurate and complete you digital footprint is, is very dependant on how much info you have revealled over the years and how securely 3rd parties store personal data.
Unfortunately as Prince would say "A Sign Of The Times"
doesnt bother me tbh. they are as well showing me stuff i may be interested in as opposed to what i wont be.
Yes, that confirms my suspisions related to similar emails in the past relating to health, age and pensions etc. All focused on particular aspects of my personal life, that would have to be obtained through 3rd parties or skimming aspects of my internet activity. Unfortunately being off-grid is virtually impossible nowadays because even as individuals if you manage to hide yourself behind anonymous online ID's and go through proxy servers etc, there are 3rd parties out there that you have to deal with that have data relating to you, effectively a digital footprint of your ID and what you do. How accurate and complete you digital footprint is, is very dependant on how much info you have revealled over the years and how securely 3rd parties store personal data.
Indeed... Your "digital footprint", and what it contains/how much of yourself it reveals, is a significant contributory factor, in terms of how easily 'the powers that be' are able to misuse information they've gathered, to subliminally brainwash and control you, which is precisely why I don't 'do' social media.
Unlike many others, I'm not the slightest bit interested in advertising my life on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or using other such nonsense, and posting 'selfies' I've taken on my smartphone (as for starters I don't own one), or pictures of my children, friends or family, or indulging in banal chitchat about vacuous 'celebrities', other such gossip or kiddie chat (as I don't have kids), so if this place didn't exist, my digital footprint would be virtually non-existent!
Therefore, if you wish to be less susceptible to being brainwashed and controlled, through the digital footprint you've created, then have a less conspicuous one in future!;)
As for bring 'off-grid', it's very difficult to be completely so now, but you can LIMIT how often you're 'connected', through your lifestyle choices, and MAXIMISE the time you're off-grid, and therefore less prone to brainwashing by unscrupulous third-party sources who've surreptitiously obtained your data.
I'm in a position where I can pick and choose when to be 'connected' or 'off-grid', as I have no-one putting demands on me to be continually contactable, especially employers, who can be so demanding these days. And when I go on holiday, I prefer being as 'off-grid' as possible, and so am unburdened by electronic paraphernalia keeping me 'connected'. I prefer being completely disconnected, so I can fully switch off and relax!
We also take active steps to divorce ourselves from the norm (and rat race), and be in control of our destiny as much as possible, which we do by living a simple, relatively self-sufficient existence, and where no-one is placing unrealistic demands on our time.
I often wonder if the Amish community, and other Christian ones like it, who completely shun all forms of modern technology and live very simple, but fruitful and rewarding lives, have got things more right than wrong: https://www.amishvalleyproducts.com/why-do-amish-reject-modern-technology
They opine that if you don't have electricity, then all the bullshit and 'poison' in today's world can't 'drip in'... Yes, of course it's an extreme view, some might say bonkers, and I wouldn't entertain it myself, but at the same time I can't help but wonder if they're more perceptive and astute about what's happening in the world now than they are mad or eccentric....
Marco.
From women and hifi through mind control using technology to Japanese casualties during World War Two. A good contender for the thread drift of the year awards!
walpurgis
08-10-2019, 12:38
From women and hifi through mind control using technology to Japanese casualties during World War Two. A good contender for the thread drift of the year awards!
I was thinking the same (and this is my first post on the thread).
Mike Reed
08-10-2019, 14:51
From women and hifi through mind control using technology to Japanese casualties during World War Two. A good contender for the thread drift of the year awards!
You missed out a couple of minor diversions on the way. However, I'm sure women figure in there somewhere !:lol:
Regrading thread drift; . . . .. "It's alive, it's alive", and I largely concur with Marco's last post.
Regrading thread drift; . . . .. "It's alive, it's alive", and I largely concur with Marco's last post.
We always do baby...
Marco.
You'd rather talk about shopping I'd guess?
Yes, I'm looking for some winter frocks.
Marco.
walpurgis
08-10-2019, 16:55
Yes, I'm looking for some winter frocks.
Marco.
And I'm looking for a winter camo gillet suit to add to my survivalist equipment.
Furry knicks is all ya needhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191008/1c591fc816244134fad7836b89d803f3.jpg
Pigmy Pony
08-10-2019, 18:03
Furry knicks is all ya needhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191008/1c591fc816244134fad7836b89d803f3.jpg
They do say that shaving will make it grow back thicker.
They do say that shaving will make it grow back thicker.
It's true, but so does the dandruff!:D
Marco.
They do say that shaving will make it grow back thicker.
That's just a long held myth!
Pigmy Pony
08-10-2019, 18:35
That's just a long held myth!
Think your spell-check is acting up - surely you mean 'long haired muff' :)
That's just a long held myth!Indeed, it may look and feel thicker but it's just the ends being blunted by the cut
Pigmy Pony
08-10-2019, 18:58
Indeed, it may look and feel thicker but it's just the ends being blunted by the cut
Grant, I'm not going to suggest that your spell-check is acting up, as that is one word we do not use :eek:
Yes, and when its a bit stubbly, just after being shaved, you get a hell of a rash from muff-diving:eyebrows:
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
08-10-2019, 19:05
Well if you're not prepared to wear the gimp mask it serves you right...
Imagine if I was wearing *your* mask!:D
Marco,
Yawn.... We're onto gimp masks now!:ner:
Marco.
Light Dependant Resistor
08-10-2019, 23:25
Is it fair to say the thread has drifted ? ever so slightly off topic. :lol:
If that's OK, perhaps this might steer it back eventually https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49755334
I think the connectivity of hifi somehow is a set back for women, which might go part of the way to explain their reluctance.
As example have you ever heard any women discussing, banana plugs or RCA ? But i am sure they appreciate good audio
when they hear it.
Is it fair to say the thread has drifted ? ever so slightly off topic. :lol:
If that's OK, perhaps this might steer it back eventually https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49755334
I think the connectivity of hifi somehow is a set back for women, which might go part of the way to explain their reluctance.
As example have you ever heard any women discussing, banana plugs or RCA ? But i am sure they appreciate good audio
when they hear it.
I'm sure they do. It's the geekery/OCD bit they don't get. In the same way, you see very few women train-spotting. I don't know whether that's because (some) mens' brains are 'wired' in a certain way, so that they care about minor variations which pass most people by.
jandl100
09-10-2019, 07:19
It's the geekery/OCD bit they don't get. In the same way, you see very few women train-spotting. I don't know whether that's because (some) mens' brains are 'wired' in a certain way, so that they care about minor variations which pass most people by.
Shoes and handbags.
Hairstyles.
Clothes in general. Fashion.
TV 'soaps'.
'Strictly'.
Wimmin can get quite obsessive about those. ;)
So I think it's a widespread human thing - men and women just tend to obsess about different things and maybe in different ways.
There are, of course, exceptions to these generalities.
-- and happily I am married to one of them. The thought of being married to a soap-obsessed fashion victim Strictly Come Dancing fanatic just does not bear thinking about.
walpurgis
09-10-2019, 07:32
We obviously have two topic lines going here. Lets combine them to rationalise the thread. Hands up, anybody who knows of a Hi-Fi owning woman who is a military strategist or historian!
Shoes and handbags.
Hairstyles.
Clothes in general. Fashion.
TV 'soaps'.
'Strictly'.
Wimmin can get quite obsessive about those. ;)
So I think it's a widespread human thing - men and women just tend to obsess about different things and maybe in different ways.
There are, of course, exceptions to these generalities.
-- and happily I am married to one of them. The thought of being married to a soap-obsessed fashion victim Strictly Come Dancing fanatic just does not bear thinking about.
Ditto! Or some vacuous, high-maintenance, social-media obsessed fashion victim.
Del does like to dress nicely though, and looks after herself, so loves well-made, good quality, often slightly 'quirky' clothes (after all she has a degree in fashion and textiles, as at one point she was going to be a clothes designer like her cousin in Germany), but she's not obsessive about it.
The only thing either of are "obsessive" about is living well and enjoying life!:cool:
Marco.
I'm sure they do. It's the geekery/OCD bit they don't get. In the same way, you see very few women train-spotting...
And if you find one, run a mile!:eek:
I think when you have a hobby that you're regularly and actively involved in, and most importantly, passionate about, the finer details or "minor variations", as you say, will always matter, especially if you want to be good at or knowledgeable about whatever it is, and have studied it to some degree.
Therefore, I don't see women being any less prone to that behaviour than men, when it comes to their hobbies or passions. It's simply the passions and hobbies that may be different.
Marco.
jandl100
09-10-2019, 08:18
Therefore, I don't see women being any less prone to that behaviour than men, when it comes to their hobbies or passions. It's simply the passions and hobbies that may be different.
Marco.
My home is full of looms and spinning wheels and sewing machines*.
The mrs loves to 'rescue' old examples and get them going again. And then, of course, it's impossible to part with them. :)
* And hifi. And cats.
Looms? Yup, tick (in our garage), as Del used to weave and dye her own cloth, which she then made into jackets and all sorts, and which looked like they'd just come out of a designer shop! She can sew, knit, crochet - has all the traditional 'homemaking' skills, especially when it comes to cooking!
Loves recycling and crafty things? Yup, tick. She's forever turning leftover or unwanted stuff into ornaments, or whatever, often selling them to raise money for charity.
Cats? Yup, tick. Now there is something she is positively OBSESSIVE about: her cats (we have three). Loves 'em and spoils them to bits, as indeed I do. We're both massive animal lovers. She likes hi-fi too, to a degree. Well, she does come with me to shows (and the house has speakers in virtually every room, and even in the car, BIG ones, lol), but her passion is more for the music than the boxes...
I think your good lady (I forget her name) and Del would get on rather well;)
Oh, haven't you forgotten gardening? I'm sure that when Snapper and I visited you, your good lady was working in the garden, planting stuff or whatever?:)
Marco.
jandl100
09-10-2019, 08:32
Gardening? Oh yes.
And fish. Tropical. About 80 of them in 6 aquariums.
And hiking/cycling.
Gardening? Oh yes.
And fish. Tropical. About 80 of them in 6 aquariums.I used to have a few of those. 2 big ones were built in. Enjoyed breeding them and selling them to pet shops.
Looms? Yup, tick (in our garage), as Del used to weave and dye her own cloth, which she then made into jackets and all sorts, and which looked like they'd just come out of a designer shop! She can sew, knit, crochet - has all the traditional 'homemaking' skills, especially when it comes to cooking!
Loves recycling and crafty things? Yup, tick. She's forever turning leftover or unwanted stuff into ornaments, or whatever, often selling it to raise money for charity.
Cats? Yup, tick. Now there is something she is OBSESSIVE about: her cats (we have three). Loves 'em and spoils them to bits, as indeed I do. We're both massive animal lovers. She likes hi-fi too, to a degree. Well, she does come with me to shows (and the house has speakers in virtually every room, and even in the car, BIG ones, lol), but her passion is more for the music than the boxes...
I think your good lady (I forget her name) and Del would get on rather well;)
Oh, haven't you forgotten gardening? I'm sure that when Snapper and I visited you, your good lady was working in the garden, planting stuff or whatever?:)
Marco.
she could have made me a new suit :lol:
Lol - seriously she *could've* done, but as her career has now taken an entirely different path, she's become a teacher [GCSE English Lecturer, to be precise], so simply wouldn't have had the time. Perhaps when she retires soon!:)
She's made suits before, and also designed (from her own patterns) and made wedding dresses.
In terms of talents/aptitudes you're born with, Del's unusual in that at school she was as good at science, maths and English, as she was art, and got the same high grades in all of them. She's always been able to use both sides of her brain equally well, so is somewhat of an 'academic creative'.
Marco.
Lol - seriously she *could've* done, but as her career has now taken an entirely different path, she's become a teacher [GCSE English Lecturer, to be precise], so simply wouldn't have had the time. Perhaps when she retires soon!:)
She's done it before and also designed and made wedding dresses.
In terms of talents/aptitudes you're born with, Del's unusual in that at school she was as good at science, maths and English, as was art, and got the same high grades in all of them. She's always been able to use both sides of her brain equally well, so is somewhat of an 'academic creative'.
Marco.
be something to do when she retires. cant see Del just sitting around:)
Lol, no chance... We're thinking of converting our large garage into a 'pop-up' restaurant!
https://www.google.com/search?q=pop-up+restaurant&oq=pop-up+res&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l4.5904j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Plus we want to start travelling the world more.
Marco.
Shoes and handbags.
Hairstyles.
Clothes in general. Fashion.
TV 'soaps'.
'Strictly'.
Wimmin can get quite obsessive about those. ;)
So I think it's a widespread human thing - men and women just tend to obsess about different things and maybe in different ways.
There are, of course, exceptions to these generalities.
-- and happily I am married to one of them. The thought of being married to a soap-obsessed fashion victim Strictly Come Dancing fanatic just does not bear thinking about.
Actually, everyone's an 'exception'. Generalities mainly exist in the eye of the beholder; when you get to know a person well you see the differences rather than the similarities. It's also an age thing. When I was a kid, I was interested in/obsessed by military stuff from WWII, particularly aircraft. Most blokes I knew were. Then, suddenly, I wasn't interested and neither were any of my mates, though I know some people well into their sixties who still like to make models of Spitfires etc. I'm sure the same goes for (some) women with regard to fashion; up to a certain age it really matters, then it's no longer that important, though some older women still do buy the mags, know what's 'on trend' and so forth.
When I was a kid, I was interested in/obsessed by military stuff from WWII, particularly aircraft. Most blokes I knew were.
Lol - shows you how different we are... Depends what age you're talking about, but when I was a kid I was interested in cycling, football, music and......Girls!:D
I did buy the odd 'Warlord' comic, though;)
Marco.
Lol - shows you how different we are... Depends what age you're talking about, but when I was a kid I was interested in cycling, football, music and......Girls!:D
I did buy the odd 'Warlord' comic, though;)
Marco.
From about nine to about fifteen, though I also played a lot of football and went to see Liverpool play at that time. I had a bike which was a hand-me-down from my cousin. We didn't have a record player till I was in my mid-teens. I also used to buy lots of Marvel and DC comics from the age of nine or ten, which would probably be worth a fortune now, but I gave them away to friends once I'd read them as my mother couldn't stand 'clutter'.
Cool... That sounds a lot more fun than the nerdy stuff you mentioned before;)
When I was a kid, I was hardly indoors, especially when the weather was good, so the very last thing that would've appealed to me would've been stuck in my room reading books on military history - or anything, really:eek:
Perhaps the 'SHOOT!' annual from 1975....
Each to their own though. I was listening to and enjoying music on a mono Panasonic cassette recorder, from about 6 years old.
Marco.
Returning to the thread topic [yes I know it's a rather novel idea], the other aspect involved in why apparently so few women are into hi-fi (or don't appear to know much about it), is that it can be (and often is) a rather solitary pursuit. How many here are single middle-aged blokes living on their own, with no company at home other than a TV and hi-fi system?
Women, by nature, are social creatures and enjoy, indeed actively seek, human interaction, which hi-fi geekery doesn't intrinsically lend itself to. On the other hand, men tend to be more solitary creatures, and happier on their own, although I'm not like that.
It's one of the reasons why I've stopped using my main system upstairs as much, and built a decent system downstairs in our lounge, so Del and I could listen to and enjoy music together, perhaps over a nice meal and a few glasses of wine, rather than me being stuck upstairs, and her downstairs watching TV, or her having to come upstairs to sit with me.
It's much more comfortable and cosier in our lounge, especially during the winter months with the log-burner on, and with tying movies in with music, with the system downstairs, it makes listening to music and watching films a rather fun and rewarding experience, plus we can chat together/have a laugh, and behave as a proper married couple, rather than two people doing different things in separate rooms!:cool:
Marco.
Returning to the thread topic .
But the Vietnam War is far more interesting! Arguably the most complex and interesting of all the wars.
Who cares if some bint has a hi-fi or not?
Opti-cal
09-10-2019, 12:36
Who cares if some bint has a hi-fi or not?
Not often I disturb people at work through laughter Martin . . . this done it tho. Thanks.
But the Vietnam War is far more interesting! Arguably the most complex and interesting of all the wars.
Who cares if some bint has a hi-fi or not?
It's more boring than Brexit! I'm more interested in the size and texture of the excursions from my arse, or the musky tang of my intestinal gas, than that cack [pun intended]... I guess I wouldn't mind watching a dramatised version of it in a film (and there are a few around), but that's all.
Funny last comment, though:D
Marco.
P.S I'll be moving the war dribble later to a separate thread, and you can yack there to your heart's content.
Done! Please follow the link below now for all war talk. Churz:cool:
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?66235-War-shiite-(moved-from-Blank-Canvas)/page4
Marco.
walpurgis
09-10-2019, 13:42
Well done Marco. It needed doing! :)
Mike Reed
09-10-2019, 15:46
Now that war has moved to a different theatre of operations, I'll also return to the feminine side of hifi. I've often remarked upon and thought why there should be a dearth of active women audio buffs, as there are probably just as many music lovers out there as men.
I think the answer is than men tend more to gravitate to engineering, regardless of whether they're that way inclined normally All hifi aficionados I've ever known have been interested in the kit, whether aesthetically or from a DIY/engineer's p.o.v but invariably both. Women's brains are not wired that way and I've never had really positive comments about any audio kit I've had. I guess I've had one or two 'that looks impressive', said with a look on the face which says 'how can anyone put up with that in their living room'.
To conclude; women in hifi has never been a going concern and never will be. Unlike photography, hifi is masculine; full stop.
PS I'm an ardent history student so I might just look in on the new battlefield.
I think it is instinctual for men to look towards practical solutions to improve life, and Hi-Fi fits in with that tendency.
Yes, once told her indoors to get back to the kitchen THATS what your good at. Did NOT go down well though :(
Yes, once told her indoors to get back to the kitchen THATS what your good at. Did NOT go down well though :(
thats what the wife used to say to me...:D
although the word all was substituted for what ;)
julesd68
09-10-2019, 16:36
To conclude; women in hifi has never been a going concern and never will be. Unlike photography, hifi is masculine; full stop.
You looked into the future and all you could see was that women will never get into hifi! :lol:
Shame you couldn't see how Brexit maps out or something useful.
Of course there was a time when most men laughed at the idea of women becoming engineers and plenty still do. Granted, according to most recent figures there are only about 48,000 women working in engineering in this country but that figure will surely only go up. It looks like some women's brains are actually 'wired that way' and are interested in how things work ...
I think the answer is than men tend more to gravitate to engineering, regardless of whether they're that way inclined normally All hifi aficionados I've ever known have been interested in the kit, whether aesthetically or from a DIY/engineer's p.o.v but invariably both. Women's brains are not wired that way and I've never had really positive comments about any audio kit I've had. I guess I've had one or two 'that looks impressive', said with a look on the face which says 'how can anyone put up with that in their living room'.
Like this?
https://i.postimg.cc/j5dYq65H/004.jpg
or
https://i.postimg.cc/RF9KWh5Q/001.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDxW2Nv/021.jpg
Mike Reed
09-10-2019, 21:57
You looked into the future and all you could see was that women will never get into hifi! :lol:
Shame you couldn't see how Brexit maps out or something useful.
Of course there was a time when most men laughed at the idea of women becoming engineers and plenty still do. Granted, according to most recent figures there are only about 48,000 women working in engineering in this country but that figure will surely only go up. It looks like some women's brains are actually 'wired that way' and are interested in how things work ...
The prediction re. women and hifi in the future was also based upon whether hifi itself. as we know it, has a future. The only way I'd want to predict Brexit was if I were a gambling man and had a big stake on the outcome. Predicting the consequences of remaining in no man's land would be more apposite, i.m.o.:)
I believe that the increasing prevalence of women engineers is not restricted to this country, or indeed to the west, but this is a different ball game to 'scale model engineering'.
jandl100
10-10-2019, 08:45
Women, by nature, are social creatures and enjoy, indeed actively seek, human interaction, which hi-fi geekery doesn't intrinsically lend itself to. On the other hand, men tend to be more solitary creatures, and happier on their own, although I'm not like that..
I'm a fairly solitary animal, but my wife is a recluse in comparison.
She doesn't seem to need any social interaction beyond the cats and me (note the order there! :)).
Lol, no worries, but in that respect she's not 'the norm'. Most women like having company. I'm sure she'd miss you if you weren't there!;)
Marco.
Like this?
https://i.postimg.cc/j5dYq65H/004.jpg
or
https://i.postimg.cc/RF9KWh5Q/001.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/wxDxW2Nv/021.jpg
Lovely Revox CDP and Nagra reel-to-reel, Barry! I'm not so much a fan of Quad or ML, though. You need some nice glowing bottles in your life!;)
And you didn't include one of the best bits of your system - your lovely TD-124, or your collection of cartridges....
Marco.
I think most here would categorise me as a, well no not middle aged now, old man with Hi-Fi and a TV.
I miss with sadness the cosmopolitan times of youth, mixing with many different types and lending and borrowing LPs for a week or so, and all the interactive discussion we used to have. But I do have a cat.
I've had many failed relationships, and largely because the women concerned have been ultimately of poor character; being good in a Machiavellian world makes one vulnerable.
But mostly we all seem to become consumed in mortgages, buying fridge freezers and raising children, and then upgrading the house we live in. Then if we are not careful we become embroiled in the competitive approval seeking of society and the associated consumption.
The essence of this to me is that capitalism attempts to convince us that we will achieve happiness by acquisition of material goods, whereas this is in fact not a way of fulfilment, which actually comes from within, and what psychologists call inner direction; that is, directing ourselves rather then letting forces around us do so, which is outer direction.
But mostly we all seem to become consumed in mortgages, buying fridge freezers and raising children, and then upgrading the house we live in. Then if we are not careful we become embroiled in the competitive approval seeking of society and the associated consumption.
It's this 'we all' I don't get. Why the need to label people? Everyone's different. No-one I know is embroiled in seeking society's approval; they're mostly just getting by.
"We all" = the majority of the general public today. It's not a label.
Dennis makes a good point (indeed a number of them, especially about "inner direction", which I will get to later), and has described a trait present in all of us, and that has become worse in recent times due to mass consumerism, which is quite separate from folks just 'getting by'.
Yes, some folks are just getting by, but many others I've seen frequently display the very traits Dennis has mentioned.
Marco.
Mike Reed
10-10-2019, 14:51
I'm a fairly solitary animal, but my wife is a recluse in comparison.
She doesn't seem to need any social interaction beyond the cats and me (note the order there! :)).
Join the club, Jerry !:lol: However, I'm probably quite gregarious as I play lots of racquet sports. My lady wiffie puts the chickens and moggie, not to mention wildlife in general, before me, so I'm further down the chain that you !
Join the club, Jerry !:lol: However, I'm probably quite gregarious as I play lots of racquet sports. My lady wiffie puts the chickens and moggie, not to mention wildlife in general, before me
As long as she doesn't put the chickens before the moggie.
Pigmy Pony
10-10-2019, 15:15
I bet most of us find ourselves somewhere down the pecking order. At lunchtime I was parked on Wickes car park, watching a couple of brown rats foraging for seeds, and threw them bits of my ham sandwiches. Anita's lad (who was sat next to me) didn't get any. He's big enough to make his own butties :)
Mike Reed
10-10-2019, 21:51
As long as she doesn't put the chickens before the moggie.
There's always been total and mutual disinterest between our cats and our chickens.
Pigmy Pony
11-10-2019, 05:48
There's always been total and mutual disinterest between our cats and our chickens.
Mutual disinterest, the key to domestic harmony! Our cat views everything outside the house as predator or prey, and sometimes I even catch her looking at me a bit funny :(
Canetoad
11-10-2019, 10:11
I agree there is a huge amount invested in on-line advertising however it is a fact that it's effectiveness as an advertising medium is in question - see this article here https://medium.com/digital-vault/the-effectiveness-of-online-advertising-is-a-delusion-75b3ea7027e9
I'd suggest that people use internet shopping because it is less bother, and often less expensive, than physically going to a shop to buy the item. In other words there is a genuine gain to be had. I don't agree that the rise of internet shopping is a result of internet advertising. It has become popular because it is cheaper and more convenient.
In general I have never been keen on arguments that go along the lines of 'This insidious practice does not affect me because I'm smart, but what about all the stupid people? Something must be done!'
The smart people are not as smart as they think they are and the stupid people are not as stupid as the smart people reckon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHEOGrkhDp0
I'm my cats bitch.
No, you just *think* you are. It's 'playing' you in ways that you've never ever heard of, never mind considered;)
Marco.
But mostly we all seem to become consumed in mortgages, buying fridge freezers and raising children, and then upgrading the house we live in. Then if we are not careful we become embroiled in the competitive approval seeking of society and the associated consumption.
Nail>head. That is *exactly* what is happening all around us in the world today, and of course has been occurring for many years, simply that for some time now (in my view, since the inception of the Internet and smartphones, and crucially social media) the last bit has become much worse.
All I can say is that thank goodness I'm not living in that world, and largely never have been.
The essence of this to me is that capitalism attempts to convince us that we will achieve happiness by acquisition of material goods, whereas this is in fact not a way of fulfilment, which actually comes from within, and what psychologists call inner direction; that is, directing ourselves rather then letting forces around us do so, which is outer direction.
Very interesting, Dennis! I shall have to conduct some research into that subject.
The bit in bold is linked with what I often refer to as 'free-thinking' (i.e. not blindly accepting that what you're told, by the 'powers that be' (and often brainwashed into believing) is fact, actually *is* fact, and therefore always seeking to challenge/question the veracity of 'currently accepted wisdom', or 'the norm' (together with practising some lateral thinking), thus putting yourself in control more, in order to achieve the highlighted above.
I would contend that "outer direction" is precisely how the establishment and elite seek to influence matters and brainwash/control us, via means previously discussed.
TBH, without even thinking of, or knowing about "inner direction', and what it strives to achieve, it's pretty much how I've always led my life, and the catalyst for achieving the goals I set for myself since becoming an adult.
Marco.
Beobloke
11-10-2019, 11:49
I also prefer to follow my own inner direction in order to find fulfilment and happiness.
The problem is that said inner direction keeps leading me to my local B&O dealer and telling me to buy stuff. :rolleyes:
:D:eyebrows:
Yes, you've always had an uncontrollable penchant for old tat...;)
And before you mention Tannoys, yes I know!!:lol:
Marco.
Beobloke
11-10-2019, 15:01
How very dare you!
My B&O dealer is a prestigious establishment and only sells new tat!!
:)
AJSki2fly
11-10-2019, 15:14
View Post
But mostly we all seem to become consumed in mortgages, buying fridge freezers and raising children, and then upgrading the house we live in. Then if we are not careful we become embroiled in the competitive approval seeking of society and the associated consumption.
Nail>head. That is *exactly* what is happening all around us in the world today, and of course has been occurring for many years, simply that for some time now (in my view, since the inception of the Internet and smartphones, and crucially social media) the last bit has become much worse.
All I can say is that thank goodness I'm not living in that world, and largely never have been.
The essence of this to me is that capitalism attempts to convince us that we will achieve happiness by acquisition of material goods, whereas this is in fact not a way of fulfilment, which actually comes from within, and what psychologists call inner direction; that is, directing ourselves rather then letting forces around us do so, which is outer direction.
Very interesting, Dennis! I shall have to conduct some research into that subject.
The bit in bold is linked with what I often refer to as 'free-thinking' (i.e. not blindly accepting that what you're told, by the 'powers that be' (and often brainwashed into believing) is fact, actually *is* fact, and therefore always seeking to challenge/question the veracity of 'currently accepted wisdom', or 'the norm' (together with practising some lateral thinking), thus putting yourself in control more, in order to achieve the highlighted above.
I would contend that "outer direction" is precisely how the establishment and elite seek to influence matters and brainwash/control us, via means previously discussed.
TBH, without even thinking of, or knowing about "inner direction', and what it strives to achieve, it's pretty much how I've always led my life, and the catalyst for achieving the goals I set for myself since becoming an adult.
Marco.
Exactly, I spent many years chasing various dreams in terms of the better house, car and so on, often driven by what I would call conditioning from external influences such as advertising, sales pressure and what others told me, peer to peer pressure from friends, colleagues and family.
About 12 years ago aspects of dissatisfaction came into my life, and I started thinking about what I was doing, why I was buying this or that and actually these things actually giving me any long term pleasure or fulfilment, the reality was very little of what I was doing, certainly relating to owning physical stuff, was giving me any long term happiness. I was chasing money, working harder and harder to try and satisfy what I thought I needed to do to be happy, all I did was become trapped, tired and very unhappy. In some areas like cars it was actually making me very stressed, perpetually looking for the bigger thrill or one that was better, a complete waste of time. When I became physically ill 4 years ago and had time to reflect on various aspects of my life it dawned on me that I just needed to get rid of certain things that were not important and stop chasing non-existent rainbows, unimportant at least to me, and adjust my way of thinking. So the expensive fast car went, some money from it went on much needed home improvements and peace of mind for longer term.
I also returned to a main love of mine, listening to music and actually sitting and relaxing when listening to it. So I used some proceeds from the car to improve the hifi, I set myself a budget and limited myself to that. I knew it would be very easy to get sucked into the this is better than than that, talked into gear by dealers and it spiral out of control. Also my wonderful Sue became my Jimmy Cricket, reminding me of my aims and not to let my hobby become an obsession or dissatisfying. So after a few years a couple of amps, 3 pairs of speakers and two turntables I am now pretty happy with what I have and how it all sounds and I have kept my promise to myself and my original budget. I may do the odd cable tweak or improve the digital streaming side, but only if I have the money. It's time to sit and enjoy for many years, and forget about what's new or whether it could sound better.
Am I happier, well yes I am more relaxed and more content generally, we try and organise our life so that I and Sue can do what we like as much as possible, walking, occasional meals out and relaxing together at home, obviously based on what we have and can afford. Yes we like to be comfortable and would prefer to be more financially secure, but we cut our cloth to fit and ignore commercial pressures to have unnecessary stuff. This may become even more important based on my health or lack of it in the future. Some would view an expensive hifi as unnecessary and a waste of money, and I suppose it is really, but at least I enjoy it and do not just own it to have the best or be part of a social group in society. Although I suppose I by default I am now viewed by others as a sad old geeky git with a posh stereo.
My point is from my own experience I think we often fail to realise even as adults how easily we are influenced and guided in a particular way of thinking. Marketing and advertising aims, as Dennis says, to pull/push us into a particular way of thinking, which is effectively if you own this product you will be happy or happier. Even worse it is suggested sometimes that if you don't own a particular product/house/holiday you will be missing out, deprived or not as good as someone who has it, this approach is all done very cleverly and subliminally. I find this particularly nasty and a big reflection of our society as we see it developing today. Those that wish to influence the many and profit are doing so by whatever means they can, psychology, internet, social media, AI etc are all very influential and useful tools for them to use or abuse rightly or wrongly.
Be Happy,
Adrian
Post of the year, Adrian, and a man after my own heart!!!
:clapclapclap:
I shall comment individually on some of the most apt points you've made later:)
Marco.
I used to be a motorcycling enthusiast in the 70s and 80s, extending to '91. In the 70s we didn't have to wear a crash helmet, and I would ride my chopped Triumph Daytona 500 to and from Hastings to see and stay with my aunt, heady times.
But I rebuilt the bike into what it became, and with a personal commitment, not just a material indulgence.
In '85 I bought a BMW R100RS, a beautiful bike, and used to ride down to Seaford, where I now live from Beckenham, to see the same aunt who had moved here. I then changed it for a K100RS, much better, and was happy, except that it really is a dangerous pursuit.
Hi-Fi has been for me, having studied electronics and sound reproduction, not an entirely material pursuit; it has always involved endeavour and striving, to pursue achievement toward the aim of perfect sound.
(I bet you don't know anyone else who would travel on public transport carrying a paraline speaker wrapped in a blanket to work in Bush house, on the tube, to audition it with co workers on night shift. We also took my Tannoy golds + system on another occasion in a fellow worker's van on another night shift.)
The point? For me satisfaction in life is gained by the effort put into trying to achieve, mush more so than the gratification obtained by consumption, which is easy. This also has applied to the much more recent, and much deeper attempt at a speaker design from '02 onwards. In Oct '17 after winning a legal case, I spent the money going to Berlin and buying my pair of ADAMs, and yes, they are very good, and must be a result of an enormous amount of research by a team of PhDs + others using a great deal of expensive facility. They are enjoyable, but are they twenty times as good as my attempts, and how do we quantify this?
I was actually a month ago considering upgrading from the Betas to the Alphas, but it struck me as an obscenity, can they really be that much better? I decided not to, and this raises the issue of the materialism slope; when you have a Lamborghini, where do you go to next, the Bugatti? It is a philosophical question from which I think we have to become grounded.
The beauty of Hi-Fi is that once we own it, it is a virtually cost free pursuit, and if anyone thinks that speakers such as these are owned for the approval of others, I point out that, unlike a parked car, the exposure to potential admirers is minimal, in fact I fear others knowing about them for the obvious reasons.
Motorcycling now is more dangerous that ever IMO, the roads are so crowded, and the possibility of doing what they are designed for is very limited with so many speed cameras around.
I think maturity necessitates a greater grasp of reality, in my 20s I was obsessed with ladies' tits, arses and legs, not aware really that it is the inner connection that fulfils a relationship. Children are obsessed with the taste of food, especially sweet tasting food, and only have to look at the results of that if it is allowed to take over choices. There needs to be a societal realisation.
Can you imagine what it would be like for us if the majority thought this way, meeting in a friendly way rather than competing to outdo everyone else in material terms?
.
Can you imagine what it would be like for us if the majority thought this way, meeting in a friendly way rather than competing to outdo everyone else in material terms?
I'd say that the majority do think that way. Do a poll on here and ask if people place a high priority on accumulating material possessions and keeping up with the Joneses. I'll bet no-one votes yes.
Aside from that the majority, even in this country, have not got enough left after rent/mortgage payments and essential expenses to keep up with anyone.
I'd say that the majority do think that way. Do a poll on here and ask if people place a high priority on accumulating material possessions and keeping up with the Joneses. I'll bet no-one votes yes.
Wouldn't tell you much, mate, as the views and traits of AoS members, in general, aren't representative of those of the general public. The very nature of this place, and other forums of a specialist nature like it, is that it attracts reasonably discerning, intelligent and well-balanced people (more likely to be free-thinkers) - that is apart from our resident daftees!:D
Besides, what makes you think if anyone here was like that, they'd admit it?;)
Aside from that the majority, even in this country, have not got enough left after rent/mortgage payments and essential expenses to keep up with anyone.
You're missing the point. Many are still living way beyond their means, simply because of being guilty of the type of behaviour (perhaps subconsciously), as outlined earlier by Dennis, then Adrian [specifically "becoming embroiled in the competitive approval seeking of society and the associated consumption"] - and which is partly why they're skint.
Btw, I'm not referring to folks who are genuinely financially poor, but rather those who earn a decent working wage, but simply fritter it away on 'stuff' that they really don't need, or insist on living beyond their means, trying to be something they're not, and subsequently getting into serious debt.
Marco.
Btw, I'm not referring to folks who are genuinely financially poor, but rather those who earn a decent working wage, but simply fritter it away on 'stuff' that they really don't need, or insist on living beyond their means, trying to be something they're not, and subsequently getting into serious debt.
Marco.
Well yes they exist and I guess in sizeable numbers, I was just disagreeing with the notion that they are 'the majority'.
Also you know the saying - that a man who owes ten thousand pounds to the bank lives in a shack eating baked beans whilst a man who owes a million pounds to the bank lives in a mansion eating caviar.
Those number probably need to be adjusted for inflation now.
I don't do credit. If I can't pay for it I don't get it.
Well yes they exist and I guess in sizeable numbers, I was just disagreeing with the notion that they are 'the majority'.
Also you know the saying - that a man who owes ten thousand pounds to the bank lives in a shack eating baked beans whilst a man who owes a million pounds to the bank lives in a mansion eating caviar.
Those number probably need to be adjusted for inflation now.
Yup, defo :)
Marco.
Well yes they exist and I guess in sizeable numbers, I was just disagreeing with the notion that they are 'the majority'.
I don't know anyone like that (getting into serious debt, living beyond their means). Maybe I move in the wrong circles.
Also you know the saying - that a man who owes ten thousand pounds to the bank lives in a shack eating baked beans whilst a man who owes a million pounds to the bank lives in a mansion eating caviar.
Those number probably need to be adjusted for inflation now.
Or: if you owe the bank a thousand pounds, you've got a problem. If you owe the bank a million pounds, the bank's got a problem.
I don't do credit. If I can't pay for it I don't get it.
Same here, mate. We use credit cards sometimes, simply because it's often advantageous to do so, but they're always paid off in full at the end of each month, so that no interest is accrued. We have zero debts and only spend money we have earned.
Marco.
Known a few. It can creep up on you and before you know it your in shit. Then you try to get out of it or something shitty happens and you get deeper into it.
Houses are a big potential disaster financially for some
I don't know anyone like that (getting into serious debt, living beyond their means). Maybe I move in the wrong circles.
You don't have to *know* anyone like that to acknowledge reality. There's plenty of evidence of such all around you, if you care to look.
Marco.
Known a few. It can creep up on you and before you know it your in shit. Then you try to get out of it or something shitty happens and you get deeper into it.
Houses are a big potential disaster financially for some
Yup, especially young folks trying to get onto the property ladder. It must be horrendous.
Marco.
walpurgis
11-10-2019, 19:30
I don't do credit. If I can't pay for it I don't get it.
Same here. Can't think of anything I'd borrow money for anyway.
AJSki2fly
11-10-2019, 19:53
Well if you look at property today an averages house price is around £220k I believe, I knows it’s a lot less up North and more in the SE, however I can give a good example of why it is harder today to get on the property ladder, ignoring the lenders imposed rules making it hard to get a mortgage.
When we got married we just managed to buy a 1 bed Barretts flat, I was 25 and earned £9k/year, and Sue earns about £5k. The flat cost us £28.5k. We had to have 2.5 times the higher earnings plus the lower one for the max mortgage available to us was £27.5k, we put down £2k, and fees were £500.
A one bed flat in the same area today is around £180k, frightening. So that’s roughly 6.5 times more. So based on the someone with 2 years experience as a junior programmer today should be earning £58.5k and the lady earning £32.5k. Unfortunately that will not be the case, someone in a similar permanent role as I did would be lucky to get £40k, and in the role my wife did locally it would be about £18k, not the expected £32.5k.
So what does this tell us, basically salaries have been suppressed in the UK over the last 35 years by round 35%. This is not true in the rest of Europe Danish nephews, two of which are in IT, are earning between around £70k to £80k, one has 2 years experience and the other 3, neither are particularly specialist or skilled. There partners both have straight forward office jobs but are each earning £30-35k, so their salaries have kept pace as you would expect. They have just both purchased houses for around £300k, and they can because they earn enough.
By the way my Danish brother in law earned about £2k more than me in 1984 as a assistant production manager in a small factory.
So in my view the problems we have stem from from serious issues in the current day salaries of people in the UK today. I wonder why this has come about?
Mike Reed
11-10-2019, 20:01
Budgeting. Greatest financial aid to staying solvent. Rather think that might be a word than many younger people would have to look up in a dictionary.' judging by my daughters.
However, if you've nothing to budget with you're truly in the mire.
A saying that's stayed with me for yonks is 'it ain't what you earn; it's what you spend'. Like many here, and Marco as stated, I run up credit card bills, often in the upper hundreds each month but direct debit pays it off in full. I love credit cards; you have a receipt record which can be matched to your statement and fifty or more days' grace to amass the funds to pay it. Best financial invention ever, providing you avail yourself only of its advantages.
Like many here, and Marco as stated, I run up credit card bills, often in the upper hundreds each month but direct debit pays it off in full. I love credit cards; you have a receipt record which can be matched to your statement and fifty or more days' grace to amass the funds to pay it. Best financial invention ever, providing you avail yourself only of its advantages.
Exactly, Mike. And that's a perfect example of what Dennis mentioned earlier of "directing ourselves rather than letting forces around us do so":)
Be the one *in* control, rather than controlled!
Marco.
I think 'keeping up with the Jones's' is a subconscious function, often a (Freudian), psychological displacement of some other unresolved issue.
Years ago there were descriptions of fat middle aged ladies spending very high amounts on very expensive dresses which they never wore, and having wardrobes full of them.
I agree about credit cards provided they are used as you guys have stated, I have one only, used for online stuff, and always pay it off in full, and there are several layers of protection for online purchases.
Remember that old concept of Higher Purchase anyone? And also the old saying 'Kippers and Curtains', and saving up for something?
I use PayPal a lot. It has protections built in. I have had credit cards before but I got rid of.
A lot of my online buys are amazon as well and they are good to deal with
I've got shedloads of credit cards, but the only one I use regularly is my Amazon one; it keeps all my Amazon-related purchases in one place, and I pay it off in full every time.
Beobloke
12-10-2019, 11:53
As above, I generally have a credit card bill each month in the high hundreds/low thousands because the shopping and my fuel goes on it, as well as any bigger one-off purchases. I pay it off monthly on the dot and get BA Avios points for doing so. This card is an American Express one and still quite a few places will not accept Amex, so I have a second, spare one as well - this is a Mastercard and gives me Virgin Atlantic points.
With these, Mrs B. and I have had some bargain holidays. With our trip to Florence this summer we only paid for three nights in the hotel - the other three nights and our flights both ways were ‘paid for’ using points.
If used properly, they can be surprisingly beneficial.
Pigmy Pony
12-10-2019, 13:28
My mate buys all his building materials using his Virgin Atlantic credit card, and it saves him hundreds off the cost of their twice a year holidays to Vegas and Florida. That's a lot further than mine would take me, as I don't have any credit cards. I once got one to help with car hire abroad, then it sat in a drawer until eventually they wrote saying they were cancelling it due to lack of "activity".
I only use a debit card - I can only use it if there are sufficient funds in my account to cover it. Helps keep me debt-free :)
I hate debt, this view inculcated in my early environment, and debt obviously leaves one vulnerable, and for me with a feeling of subconscious unease.
Mike Reed
12-10-2019, 16:51
I only use a debit card - I can only use it if there are sufficient funds in my account to cover it. Helps keep me debt-free :)
Sensible, but, as posted above, you can get a lot more out of credit cards if you use them sensibly/keep books etc. I'm a Nectar tart, having a Sainsbury's Mastercard really boosts the points. I'm very close to the £100, and it's only been several months. Considering we do our main shop in Aldi, that's good going, methinks !:lol
Pigmy Pony
12-10-2019, 17:38
Sensible, but, as posted above, you can get a lot more out of credit cards if you use them sensibly/keep books etc. I'm a Nectar tart, having a Sainsbury's Mastercard really boosts the points. I'm very close to the £100, and it's only been several months. Considering we do our main shop in Aldi, that's good going, methinks !:lol
Completely agree Mike, credit cards have a lot of advantages, and my not having one is not because I think there's anything wrong with them. No, the problem is me. I am utterly shite with money, and if I were given say, £10,000, I would not rest until I'd spent it all on something.
I know myself well enough to know that I'm more financially stable sans credit cards :)
Yes, there is a potential risk using credit cards - if you get close to your credit limit, the credit card company will often inform you that they have raised the limit. After all, it is to their advantage to continue to earn interest from you. I have had two credit cards; one had a credit limit of £25,000, the second a limit of £10,000.
Pigmy Pony
12-10-2019, 19:25
Yes, there is a potential risk using credit cards - if you get close to your credit limit, the credit card company will often inform you that they have raised the limit. After all, it is to their advantage to continue to earn interest from you. I have had two credit cards; one had a credit limit of £25,000, the second a limit of £10,000.
If I had those cards I would be in a world of pain by now. But I guess knowing your faults is almost as good as not having said faults...
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