Croft 25R upgrade advice please

[IHP]

Hi,

First of all I hope all AoS-ers are well, I’m not a frequent poster these days as I tend to have strayed from the upgrade path and am far less active in the box side of the hobby as such. I’m posting now as I know there’s much Croft enthusiasm on the AoS and it was indeed this forum that put me onto his gear some years ago when it was unknown to me (shame !) for which I’ve always been grateful.

Anyway, I weakened and speculatively emailed GC asking about possible 25R upgrades and he helpfully responded with two possible options…….There are some parts upgrades that can be done – resistors and capacitors. Then you could add the 25RS separate power supply box.

I just wondered if anyone had a view on/any experience of which of these would be the more worthwhile. Admittedly I have the option of leaving all well alone as it’s a superb pre, but y’know :rolleyes:

My system is as follows:
Croft 25R/7
Redford STA 25 sometimes
Harbeth P3ESR
Project Classic tt/Goldring 1042 cart
Quad CDP2

Since the cart upgrade I tend to mostly play records

Thanks !

[Audio Al]

Hi,

First of all I hope all AoS-ers are well, I’m not a frequent poster these days as I tend to have strayed from the upgrade path and am far less active in the box side of the hobby as such. I’m posting now as I know there’s much Croft enthusiasm on the AoS and it was indeed this forum that put me onto his gear some years ago when it was unknown to me (shame !) for which I’ve always been grateful.

Anyway, I weakened and speculatively emailed GC asking about possible 25R upgrades and he helpfully responded with two possible options…….There are some parts upgrades that can be done – resistors and capacitors. Then you could add the 25RS separate power supply box.

I just wondered if anyone had a view on/any experience of which of these would be the more worthwhile. Admittedly I have the option of leaving all well alone as it’s a superb pre, but y’know :rolleyes:

My system is as follows:
Croft 25R/7
Redford STA 25 sometimes
Harbeth P3ESR
Project Classic tt/Goldring 1042 cart
Quad CDP2

Since the cart upgrade I tend to mostly play records Good man :)

Thanks !

I have a 25R and have not had a need to upgrade

[Jimbo]

The ultimate upgrade would be to have the RIAA RS phono stage implemented in the 25R box and have the line stage change to the RS, then have all the power supply in another and maybe have this dual mono?

[IHP]

I have a 25R and have not had a need to upgrade

Indeed, this remains an option !

[IHP]

The ultimate upgrade would be to have the RIAA RS phono stage implemented in the 25R box and have the line stage change to the RS, then have all the power supply in another and maybe have this dual mono?

Now that would be wonderful to hear but I fear beyond my budget ;-)

[worrasf]

Hi,

First of all I hope all AoS-ers are well, I’m not a frequent poster these days as I tend to have strayed from the upgrade path and am far less active in the box side of the hobby as such. I’m posting now as I know there’s much Croft enthusiasm on the AoS and it was indeed this forum that put me onto his gear some years ago when it was unknown to me (shame !) for which I’ve always been grateful.

Anyway, I weakened and speculatively emailed GC asking about possible 25R upgrades and he helpfully responded with two possible options…….There are some parts upgrades that can be done – resistors and capacitors. Then you could add the 25RS separate power supply box.

I just wondered if anyone had a view on/any experience of which of these would be the more worthwhile. Admittedly I have the option of leaving all well alone as it’s a superb pre, but y’know :rolleyes:

My system is as follows:
Croft 25R/7
Redford STA 25 sometimes
Harbeth P3ESR
Project Classic tt/Goldring 1042 cart
Quad CDP2

Since the cart upgrade I tend to mostly play records

Thanks !

Obviously, you could just stay with the vanilla 25R. If you do decide to "upgrade" then from personal experience moving to the 25RS would likely be more audible than changing a few components in the 25R. Having gone from a 25R to an RS (upgraded the original like you are contemplating) it's not a night and day difference - a bit more control and detail but the overall sound and presentation (in my system anyway) was pretty similar.
With regards to going for the 2-box Croft RIAA as James suggested I have no experience of this route. However, I have recently installed a Tom Evans Microgroove plus Mk2 phono amp into the line stage and I have to say the difference between it and the native 25RS phono stage is night and day. Truly amazing dynamics and soundstage with detail I had never heard before on virtually every album I've played.

TBH, the Microgroove is awaiting the return of my uber upgraded Pioneer A300R (Thursday) as I mainly use a Decca Supergold with the Crofts.

So I guess what I'm saying is if at all possible try and get to listen to a 25RS against your 25R and if you are seduced by Jame's suggestion I'd really want to listen to one first before punting 1500 sovs.

You are a bit of a trek from me otherwise you could have a loan of my 25RS to see what you think>

Steve

[Jimbo]

My suggestion was based on an upgrade someone on this site has had done to his 25R and indeed it is one that I have asked Glenn to do for myself when funds allow. It is an effective way of getting the best out of a 25R without going down a 4 box route.

Just for reference that would be a 25RS separate power supply (2 boxes) and a RIAA RS (2 more boxes )!

[IHP]

Obviously, you could just stay with the vanilla 25R. If you do decide to "upgrade" then from personal experience moving to the 25RS would likely be more audible than changing a few components in the 25R. Having gone from a 25R to an RS (upgraded the original like you are contemplating) it's not a night and day difference - a bit more control and detail but the overall sound and presentation (in my system anyway) was pretty similar.
With regards to going for the 2-box Croft RIAA as James suggested I have no experience of this route. However, I have recently installed a Tom Evans Microgroove plus Mk2 phono amp into the line stage and I have to say the difference between it and the native 25RS phono stage is night and day. Truly amazing dynamics and soundstage with detail I had never heard before on virtually every album I've played.

TBH, the Microgroove is awaiting the return of my uber upgraded Pioneer A300R (Thursday) as I mainly use a Decca Supergold with the Crofts.

So I guess what I'm saying is if at all possible try and get to listen to a 25RS against your 25R and if you are seduced by Jame's suggestion I'd really want to listen to one first before punting 1500 sovs.

You are a bit of a trek from me otherwise you could have a loan of my 25RS to see what you think>

Steve

Thanks Steve and that's an incredibly generous offer to loan me some serious hi fi !

[IHP]

My suggestion was based on an upgrade someone on this site has had done to his 25R and indeed it is one that I have asked Glenn to do for myself when funds allow. It is an effective way of getting the best out of a 25R without going down a 4 box route.

Just for reference that would be a 25RS separate power supply (2 boxes) and a RIAA RS (2 more boxes )!

Again thanks James, any idea of the cost of the work you mention ? PM if you feel it more appropriate ;-)

[Jimbo]

Again thanks James, any idea of the cost of the work you mention ? PM if you feel it more appropriate ;-)

I have had a quote but it may not be what you would be quoted so I best not say but ask Glenn himself, you maybe surprised. I think the chap who had his 25R taken to the level I suggested was Fiddlemaker. He was more than pleased with the upgrade.

[Bigbird]

I cant make any informed recommendations on ‘upgrades’ as such as i bought my 25R and 7R monoblocks as they are , however, the previous owner had it upgraded from standard 25R to having the linestage of the 25RS (with 12BH7a valve installed but without seperate power supply) and all i can say is that it is end game stuff for most of us and not a bank breaker.

The next upgrade i have asked Glenn about is the ‘full monty’ version which goes beyond RS level using the seperate power supply, but better resistors and coupling caps etc etc. This upgrade is said to give performance of amps in the £15,000 area

This is the only option for me now as i dont feel that going to RS would give me enough bang for buck (around a grand) to add a seperate power supply. The linestage upgrades should give you most of the performance of the full blown RS.

As James has said ,best to check with Glenn as each situation is different but the ballpark for the full monty work on my already upgraded 25R was around 1500 to give you a rough idea. The linestgae upgrades would be much less id have thought?

Cheers

Karl


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[IHP]

Thanks once more for the input each. I've decided to be stepped in my approach and go for the seperate PSU option and then consider things from there. I mean c'mon, you get another box :). I'll report back - it goes towards the end of next week. At this level I'm not expecting 'night and day' or 'lifting of veils', indeed it's possible that significantly improving the 25R is not a realistic undertaking without serious investment.

Cheers, Ian.

[worrasf]

Thanks once more for the input each. I've decided to be stepped in my approach and go for the seperate PSU option and then consider things from there. I mean c'mon, you get another box :). I'll report back - it goes towards the end of next week. At this level I'm not expecting 'night and day' or 'lifting of veils', indeed it's possible that significantly improving the 25R is not a realistic undertaking without serious investment.

Cheers, Ian.

Hi Ian
My Tom Evans upgraded Pioneer A300R is on its way back to me as I type so if you were somehow able to get “oop north” you could borrow my 25RS before you pull the trigger if that would help.
Steve


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[IHP]

I've PM'd you Stephen :).

[worrasf]

I've PM'd you Stephen :).

Responded
[emoji106]


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