music with a political message

[John]

I been tempted to start this thread for awhile but always backed out
Is it ok for bands to have a political message
For me the answer a simple yes but admit sometimes its easy for artist to go up their arse with this but sometimes the message is so powerful its hard to ignore
Hear a few songs to think about
Amazing Grace Written about Slavery
A Change is gonna to come A plea for equal rights
Strange Fruit About Lynch mobs in the southern states
Free Nelson Mandela

[hifinutt]

yes, yes, yes. so much music is prompted by this motive and many good examples U2 comes to mind and billy bragg

[Barry]

Hi John,

To answer your question - yes, why not? Just remember though, that most of the songs that come to mind usually express liberal, humanistic or left-wing sentiments. There is nothing to stop performers expressing the exact opposite. But then of course, you are at liberty not to listen to, or to buy these recordings.

Regards

[Beechwoods]

I love political music, and there's plenty of good stuff too.

Consolidated and Gil Scott Heron, amongst others encouraged me to read a lot more about politics, and get active, in my younger years.

[Rare Bird]

I can't be doing with all that bollox, i don't even like music with lyrics but have to put up with it.

[aquapiranha]

I can't be doing with all that bollox, i don't even like music with lyrics but have to put up with it.

Haha! Andre that has to quote of the week! Brilliant. :lol:

[Spectral Morn]

I been tempted to start this thread for awhile but always backed out
Is it ok for bands to have a political message
For me the answer a simple yes but admit sometimes its easy for artist to go up their arse with this but sometimes the message is so powerful its hard to ignore
Hear a few songs to think about
Amazing Grace Written about Slavery
A Change is gonna to come A plea for equal rights
Strange Fruit About Lynch mobs in the southern states
Free Nelson Mandela

Hi John

Humbly I beg to differ.....

It was written by a man (John Newton) involved in the slave trade but the song is not about slavery except to sin. It is about John Newtons personal (and potentially our) spiritual journey from darkness to light and forgiveness.

More here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing_Grace

It is however one of the finest Hymns ever written and never fails to move me to tears....even now while typing.


Regards D S D L

[The Grand Wazoo]

Some of my favourite music also happens to be political or protest music in some way or other:

Plenty of early Dylan, Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Woody Guthrie, most of Lennon's solo work, Billy Bragg, The MC5, Patti Smith, The Doors, lots of Zappa......

Muddy Waters - 'Mannish Boy'
The Buffalo Springfield - 'For What it's Worth'
CSNY - 'Ohio'
Bob Marley - 'Redemption Song'
Rush - 'The Trees'
Robert Wyatt - 'Shipbuilding'
Peter Gabriel - 'Biko'
The Jam - 'Eton Rifles'
The Beat - 'Stand Down Margaret'

Also, how about
Martha & the Vandellas - 'Dancing in The Street'
Barry McGuire- 'Eve of Destruction'
'We Shall Overcome'
Edwin Starr- 'War'
Elvis Costello- 'Tramp the Dirt Down'
Bruce Springsteen- 'Born in the USA'
UB40- '1 in 10'
Marvin Gaye- 'What's Going on?'
U2- 'Sunday Bloody Sunday'
Midnight Oil- 'Beds Are Burning'
Sex Pistols- 'God Save the Queen'
Donovan- 'Universal Soldier'
Tracy Chapman- 'Talkin' 'bout a Revolution'

[Joe]

I don't think Mannish Boy is in any way political; it's surely about male sexual prowess.

And Dancin' In The Street is about, erm, dancing. In the street.

Although I like all of your nominations (apart from the dreary 1 in 10), political songs are mostly very naive. I'm reminded of the fictional song by The Turds 'Love Is The Thing, Hate Isn't', and Dylan's response when asked whether his songs had a message: 'If you want a message, call Western Union'.

[aquapiranha]

Cara Dillon - There were roses.

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Nuff said.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I don't think Mannish Boy is in any way political; it's surely about male sexual prowess.

And Dancin' In The Street is about, erm, dancing. In the street.

Although I like all of your nominations (apart from the dreary 1 in 10), political songs are mostly very naive. I'm reminded of the fictional song by The Turds 'Love Is The Thing, Hate Isn't', and Dylan's response when asked whether his songs had a message: 'If you want a message, call Western Union'.

Joe,
'Mannish Boy' is about being a black man living in a racist society where he's referred to as 'boy' no matter how old he is.

'Dancing in the Street' was written and performed as you describe, but it became a vehicle for protest and revolt for social change.......well perhaps you should read this (from http://everything2.com/title/Dancing+In+The+Streets)

The lyrics of Dancing in the Streets call the listener out, to take the streets in protest of institutional racism.
"An invitation across the nation", "a chance for folks to meet", to come together and organize against racism and a racist power structure. Unity among classes, creeds and categories; "...it doesn't matter what you wear, just as long as you are there." It's a global movement; "...everywhere around the world". Hope for the realization of a new, more just order; "...a brand new beat".

The brilliance, of course, is that this call to protest is wrapped up in the idiom of the danceable, Motown pop song. Radio friendly revolution.



Perhaps your view that political songs are mostly naive comes from the fact that some of them have passed you by?

P.S. Agreed that 1 in 10 is dreary as hell!

[Themis]

Almost everything by Roy Harper and Léo Ferré. :)

[Joe]

Joe,
'Mannish Boy' is about being a black man living in a racist society where he's referred to as 'boy' no matter how old he is.

So lines like:

The line I shoot will never miss
When I make love to a woman,
she can't resist
I think I go down,
to old Kansas Stew
I'm gonna bring back my second cousin,
that little Johnny Cocheroo
All you little girls,
sittin'out at that line
I can make love to you woman,
in five minutes time

are political? Plus, of course, 'Mannish Boy' is more or less a direct rip-off of Bo Diddley's 'I'm A Man'.


'Dancing in the Street' was written and performed as you describe, but it became a vehicle for protest and revolt for social change.......well perhaps you should read this (from http://everything2.com/title/Dancing+In+The+Streets)

The lyrics of Dancing in the Streets call the listener out, to take the streets in protest of institutional racism.
"An invitation across the nation", "a chance for folks to meet", to come together and organize against racism and a racist power structure. Unity among classes, creeds and categories; "...it doesn't matter what you wear, just as long as you are there." It's a global movement; "...everywhere around the world". Hope for the realization of a new, more just order; "...a brand new beat".

The brilliance, of course, is that this call to protest is wrapped up in the idiom of the danceable, Motown pop song. Radio friendly revolution.

So the song itself doesn't have a political message; that was bolted after the event on to a simple song about dancing in the streets.


Perhaps your view that political songs are mostly naive comes from the fact that some of them have passed you by?

Nope. Any song can have a post-hoc political message bolted on to it that was never intended by its writer. Charlie Manson thought that various songs on the White Album were exhortations to go out and murder people.


P.S. Agreed that 1 in 10 is dreary as hell!

Oh well, one out of three ain't bad.

The best overtly political song, both as a song and as a message is of course 'Won't Get Fooled Again', closely followed by Zappa's 'Trouble Every Day'.

[The Grand Wazoo]

So lines like..........are political?

It's still passing you by, Joe!


Any song can have a post-hoc political message bolted on to it that was never intended by its writer.
...........and it can take on a whole new meaning and relavance that is wholly political. Does that mean it's still not political?

[Joe]

It's still passing you by, Joe!


...........and it can take on a whole new meaning and relavance that is wholly political. Does that mean it's still not political?

A matter of definition, I guess. It didn't have a political message as written, which I take as meaning it's not a 'political' song, in the way that, say, 'Power To The People' or 'Alternative Ulster' are.

[The Grand Wazoo]

A matter of definition, I guess.
That'd be the thing!

[Joe]

'And when I use a word' said Humpty Dumpty in a rather scornful tone, 'it means exactly what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less'.

[The Grand Wazoo]

'And when I use a word' said Humpty Dumpty in a rather scornful tone, 'it means exactly what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less'.

hmmmm, ok. I think we'd better leave it there, you & I, Joe.

[Joe]

hmmmm, ok. I think we'd better leave it there, you & I, Joe.

Fair enough. It wasn't meant as a dig, though!

[Alex_UK]

To John's original question - "Is it ok for bands to have a political message" - absolutely, but just don't expect it to stand the test of time... maybe a little harsh, but immediate examples - The Redskins (listened to a couple of their tracks earlier tonight, by coincidence) Curtis Mayfield (a lot of his stuff whilst excellent I just want to shake him and say sing about flowers, or sunshine or big-breasted women - maybe he does, but I only seam to notice the political stuff...) - not to mention all the anti-apartheid/free Nelson Mandella vibe - all totally noble and relevant at the time, but loses the sting somewhat once the object of dissatisfaction has faded in the mists of time. Or maybe I'm just grumpy because the sun has not got his hat on today. ;)

[Beechwoods]

Although I like all of your nominations (apart from the dreary 1 in 10), political songs are mostly very naive.

Political music isn't about conveying the whole argument, it's about popularising an idea. Those who are moved by the idea, will investigate more.

And a lot of political music preaches to the choir as well. Drinking anthems of the proletariat! Music that raises the blood!

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And a few that aren't on YouTube:

Terminus - Propaganda War (Going Nowhere Fast, Word Of Warning records 1989)
The AK47's - Tottenham 3 (Don't Call Me Vanilla, Rugger Bugger records 1991)

[goraman]

Deutchland Uber alles is a great example.
Politics and music are just wrong,Joan Bias can kiss my a**
Nothing worse than a dirty hippy drinking hot dieria out of a filthy knee sock while singing "all we are saying is give peace a chance"...
Complaining about oil & the enviorment and leaveing the protest in an old peice "O" crap spueing a cloud of smoke behind them.
Just try to seperate them from a T.V. or there welfair cheak,paid for those who actually do conserve resorces and contribute to the world.