View Full Version : New Kralk 30 series
MarginWalker
19-09-2019, 08:25
These look very interesting. Seems like they are a step up from the TDB series which I was very impressed by...
https://www.stereonet.co.uk/news/exclusive-kralk-audio-30-range-loudspeakers-unveiled?fbclid=IwAR2L9D4v_jOYxx7ij1ziXGdWXzvyLFxy rtbmXcCndC5cOzH1CTZgRyvsSME
jandl100
19-09-2019, 08:40
'The all-new Kralk Audio 30 Range is due to be unveiled at The Audio Show, Leamington Spa this weekend'.
I was very impressed by their previous range, as well.
oceanobsession
28-09-2019, 17:18
30/4 playing in the missing link room , at the audio show , to much bass overblown , not articulate or precise , not to my liking . phil
Wakefield Turntables
28-09-2019, 17:27
Kralk is based in Wakefield, he's about 4 miles from where i live. I only just heard about the company. :eek:
30/4 playing in the missing link room , at the audio show , to much bass overblown , not articulate or precise , not to my liking . phil
Could have been a mismatch with the amplifier? From the picture of it I'd guess it need something pretty capable to do it justice.
I had to listen to the old ones through some E.A.R abomination. They still sounded pretty good though.
Ali Tait
28-09-2019, 17:40
They were playing them far too loud when I was in there, almost unlistenable.
What was the amplification then Ali?
They're big, they're a three way, they have a midrange dome, they have big bass drivers, the styling is from the cool side of the 'Seventies and you don't have to be an A list Hollywood actor who also made some good investments and had a load of luck on the gee-gees to be able to afford them. What's not to like?
https://i.imgur.com/XHGwi9e.jpg
30/4 playing in the missing link room , at the audio show , to much bass overblown , not articulate or precise , not to my liking . phil
Yep, I agree - mids were also forced and harsh. Unfortunately this was one of the poorer sounds of the show.
Ammonite Audio
29-09-2019, 07:43
It’s a shame that I had very little opportunity to wander around the show, but my stand was in the foyer directly underneath the room with the Kralks and it was very, very loud!
Ali Tait
29-09-2019, 08:13
What was the amplification then Ali?
Sorry, can’t remember.
jandl100
29-09-2019, 09:26
Kralk 30/4 playing in the missing link room , at the audio show , to much bass overblown , not articulate or precise , not to my liking . phil
Big speakers, 4 way, big bass driver - would need to be decently set up in a fair sized room to do them justice, I'd imagine.
Depending on the design spec they may well need a grunty amp, too.
What size room were they in?
Any photos of the setup?
This is the info for the room supplied by The Missing Link:
This year we have an excellent demo area in Room 10 on the first floor. We have been informed by the organiser that this room has a solid floor for our turntables and we will be showing & demonstrating the very latest version of our custom built Vinyl Passion Turntable fitted with our full range of Modifications for the Linn LP-12 including the much talked about Revolution LP-12 power supply which is a considerable step up from most power supplies on the market today regardless of cost.
We will be demonstrating this at the show complemented with the launch of a New Affordable Pre and power amplifier combination from Vincent Audio
This will be your chance to be among the very the first to hear the new SA-32 balanced pre amplifier at £800 and the SP-332 150w stereo power amplifier at £1735 with funky retro vu meters ....so do come for an enjoyable listen ..
We are also excited about the official launch of the new Loudspeakers from the legendary Kralk Audio Speaker Company
Of the New 30 Range - the BC 30/4's are the largest of the range at 1.3metres high .. they are 5 way floor standing loudspeakers that will be available exclusively from the Vinyl Passion Music Room... and must be seen and heard !!
We will be using a full Vincent System as usual showing the very finest they have to offer including the Hi Fi World Award Winning 2019 best integrated amplifier Vincent 237MK, an outstanding integrated amplifier that will astonish and at an affordable £1850 offering the very best of valve and solid state in one convenient package - mated with the affordable Audio Detail NV-06 MM/MC Nu-Vista all valve Phono Stage £1195 and the superb value Vincent PHO-701 Phono Stage at £595 .. With luck we should also have the Gold-Note PH10 on demo too !!
We will be using our latest New & Very Exciting ‘Revolution’ Microprocessor Controlled, Turntable Power Supply for the LP-12 - this has been a 5 year project and we have now produced the first 5 finished boards that are being tested by customers and traders who are already astonished at the performance increase this brings to the LP-12 ...at true Revolution of £395. This will go into full production in October this year and will be proudly built in England -
We will have the latest cartridges from Audio Technica and using the ART 9 in our VP12 for demo
Come celebrate music with us on sensibly priced high performance audio equipment at The Audio Show
Please feel free to bring your own vinyl if you would like hear it through our system on the day...
https://hifipig.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Extras-29.jpg
https://hifipig.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Extras-30-Vincent.jpg
https://hifipig.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Extras-31.jpg
The room was a good size, quite large. When I visited the room they were playing ‘Random Access Memories’ by Daft Punk (on vinyl). The sound exhibited room boom in the bass but also had a hardness and forced quality that made the familiar record almost unrecognisable.
Here's a pic. Can't make out what the amplification is but there seems to be plenty of space for the speakers to work in so the room can't be to blame. Using a turntable though and there's a lot of things that could be wrong with a turntable set up, lots of variables. Assuming a bad sound is automatically the fault of the speakers is a rookie mistake IMO.
https://i.imgur.com/K9iwPTK.jpg
jandl100
29-09-2019, 10:14
So where's the 5th driver in the 5 way design?
Looks a decent setup.
Biggish Vincent amps should have plenty of poke.
Amp review here https://www.vincent-tac.de/fileadmin/pdf/Tests/englisch/Vincent_SV-237_MK_HFW_Oct18.pdf
''One notable feature was obvious but easy-going bass; in fact the sound was so fulsome I did walk over to ensure both tone and loudness were switched out.'
There are side facing bass drivers.
Personally I wouldn’t ascribe the poor sound to the speakers as I have heard similarly mid/high issues from The Missing Link at other shows with different speakers. The bass problem is very likely to be an interaction between the room and the speakers (though room gain ((boom)) was relatively rare at this show).
jandl100
29-09-2019, 10:25
There are side facing bass drivers.
True, but I still only see 4 drivers!
Or are there 2 opposed bass drivers, differently fed from the x-over?
There are side facing bass drivers.
Personally I wouldn’t ascribe the poor sound to the speakers as I have heard similarly mid/high issues from The Missing Link at other shows with different speakers. The bass problem is very likely to be an interaction between the room and the speakers (though room gain ((boom)) was relatively rare at this show).
That seems unlikely as the room looks to be very big and the speakers are well away from the boundaries.
Bigman80
29-09-2019, 10:35
Here's a pic. Can't make out what the amplification is but there seems to be plenty of space for the speakers to work in so the room can't be to blame. Using a turntable though and there's a lot of things that could be wrong with a turntable set up, lots of variables. Assuming a bad sound is automatically the fault of the speakers is a rookie mistake IMO.
https://i.imgur.com/K9iwPTK.jpgIf that's an Audio Designs phonostage, I would investigate there first.
One I had here was way off piste tonally. Bloated mids and the bass was just out of control. I'd put large sums of mo ey on the RIAA being inaccurate it was that off kilter.
I'm not saying they are all the same but I'd certainly start any inquiry with that.
For demos, I completely understand why folks use vinyl but if it isn't 100% on point you're on a hiding to nothing.
the speaker on the far right is too close to the side wall,thats gonna affect the sound :eek:
I have to concur with the thoughts expressed so far. I found the room to be unlistenably loud and very treble harsh. It is the second time I have heard Kralk and I thought the same last time but with a different model. As always, get a home demonstration if it is a speaker you are interested in.
That seems unlikely as the room looks to be very big and the speakers are well away from the boundaries.
Room modes can occur irrespective of the rooms size (within reason) and speaker positioning relative to the rear wall.
Room modes can occur irrespective of the rooms size (within reason) and speaker positioning relative to the rear wall.
In theory but in practice I've never found that to be the case. Boomy bass is usually caused by the amp not being up to driving the speakers, or some sort of turntable-related issue.
Anyway if they were harsh in the top end that's certainly nothing to do with the room or the speakers.
I think, although unlikely, that from the picture, the right speaker seems closer to the back wall - not an equilateral triangle needed for stereo.
It does seem that the bass drivers are working as a bipole, now becoming a popular solution - KEF Bade and others.
It amazes me that at shows so often the sound is easily criticisable, do they not realise how people like us agonise on fine tuning to get the last possible finesse from our systems? Several times at shows I have just walked straight out of a room because the sound was so obviously wrong. (Both B&W, and Meridian). With all their resources and desire to use the show as a selling platform, hey should set it up such that we are blown away by it.
Pigmy Pony
29-09-2019, 11:57
the speaker on the far right is too close to the side wall,thats gonna affect the sound :eek:
You mean the one in the corner, cunningly disguised as a water dispenser? :D
Ali Tait
29-09-2019, 13:12
I think, although unlikely, that from the picture, the right speaker seems closer to the back wall - not an equilateral triangle needed for stereo.
It does seem that the bass drivers are working as a bipole, now becoming a popular solution - KEF Bade and others.
It amazes me that at shows so often the sound is easily criticisable, do they not realise how people like us agonise on fine tuning to get the last possible finesse from our systems? Several times at shows I have just walked straight out of a room because the sound was so obviously wrong. (Both B&W, and Meridian). With all their resources and desire to use the show as a selling platform, hey should set it up such that we are blown away by it.
Can’t speak for others, but when I help Nick out, we spend hours getting the best sound we can. If you think it’s easy, try giving it a go!
I didn't suggest that it was easy, but my stance is implicitly expressed in my last post.
Professional sellers should surely have so much practice that it becomes second nature to them; they're not doing a 'one off ' as many of us are..
In theory but in practice I've never found that to be the case. Boomy bass is usually caused by the amp not being up to driving the speakers, or some sort of turntable-related issue.
Anyway if they were harsh in the top end that's certainly nothing to do with the room or the speakers.
Well we will have to disagree then because I have experienced room issues of this nature many times and many audiophiles appear to actively like the bass hump that room gain can give. However, I agree that, in this case, the front end and/or amplifiers may well have been the primary factor - I’ve never been very impressed by Vincent gear and I’ve no idea how the phonostage performs.
So where's the 5th driver in the 5 way design?
Looks a decent setup.
Biggish Vincent amps should have plenty of poke.
The reference to “5 way design” appears to be a misprint and should probably read ‘5 drive unit’ as I have seen it described as a 4 way system elsewhere (which would make more sense).
Anyway, irrespective of what the cause was, the end result was not a good one.
jandl100
29-09-2019, 17:01
... and many audiophiles appear to actively like the bass hump that room gain can give.
:eyebrows:
Dat's me you talkin' 'bout. :D
I still don't know why the 30/4 is a 5-way speaker.
OK, 5 drivers, but surely the 2 bass drivers come from the same x-over feed?
My MBLs are 6 driver, 4 way. I bet the Kralks are 5 driver 4-way.
It’s not a five way Jerry, some cock up in the quoted description - Kralk call it a four way (five drive units).
jandl100
29-09-2019, 17:04
Ah, OK - good. :)
jandl100
29-09-2019, 17:12
Ah, we overlapped in our posting.
Just seen your original response, Mark. :thumbsup:
Apparently Kralk are intending to sell these for 3K which is vastly less than anyone else selling a four way, five driver, speaker - possibly more spent on the components and a less emphasis on achieving a ‘bargain’ price would have resulted in a more balanced sound - but who knows.
Bigman80
29-09-2019, 19:28
Apparently Kralk are intending to sell these for 3K which is vastly less than anyone else selling a four way, five driver, speaker - possibly more spent on the components and a less emphasis on achieving a ‘bargain’ price would have resulted in a more balanced sound - but who knows.I'd suspect, given previous reports of kralks earlier models being very good, that the issue here possible wasn't all the speakers fault. They seem to have a good ear and as we all know, one bad demo doesn't make it a bad speaker.
Benefit of the doubt, but I'd hope to get a better setup next time to give a better chance of positive feedback.
I still think the problem was probably back in the chain somewhere.
"I still don't know why the 30/4 is a 5-way speaker.
OK, 5 drivers, but surely the 2 bass drivers come from the same x-over feed?
My MBLs are 6 driver, 4 way. I bet the Kralks are 5 driver 4-way. "
My own are five way, the two bass drivers operating as a bipole but with differing cut offs and hence feeds from the Xover.
jandl100
30-09-2019, 06:41
^ So there is such a beast. Thanks Dennis, that's interesting.
I see that was your 1,000th post. :hifive: :mex:
Ali Tait
30-09-2019, 06:49
I didn't suggest that it was easy, but my stance is implicitly expressed in my last post.
Professional sellers should surely have so much practice that it becomes second nature to them; they're not doing a 'one off ' as many of us are..
Yeah, I’ll take my magic wand next time lol.
It’s always easy to criticise. Have you considered how much work goes in to doing a show within tight timelines, not to mention you are going in to a different sounding room every time. Most hotel rooms are dire sound wise.
I agree some could take more time and care than they do, but the majority do their best with what they are given.
Floyddroid
30-09-2019, 08:43
Yep, I agree - mids were also forced and harsh. Unfortunately this was one of the poorer sounds of the show.
I could well imagine this to be so as those speakers need a big area to work properly in. I heard them in Mark's dem room which is very large and they sounded good.
"It’s always easy to criticise. Have you considered how much work goes in to doing a show within tight timelines, not to mention you are going in to a different sounding room every time. Most hotel rooms are dire sound wise."
Yes of course, but as with many things, there must be a good knowledge and understanding gained from the repeated process.
Ali Tait
01-10-2019, 08:13
Well like I said, you try it. :)P
Do you really think that having spent so much time and money on S repro, that I do not try to get the best from it?
There are a bunch of issues when it comes to making a good sound at a show. Two of the more obvious are the need to seat a bunch of people and the fact that all those people are likely to be sat on dining chairs rather than a sofa - so everyone is seated too high. If you have the time (and opportunity) to sit in a number of different seating positions you often find the sound quite profoundly changes* - the same is true if you slump rather than sit upright. Of course the demonstrator can choose to have fewer chairs in the room but that means many will not sit and will choose to stand - an even worse sounding proposition.
* Sitting with a number of people in front of you is far from ideal but sitting in the front row is very rarely the best place to sit either. The best place is often in the second, third or fourth row, dead centre but with nobody sat in front of you - not always easy to achieve (though that is precisely what I managed when I heard the KralK 30s at Leamington Spa).
Ali Tait
01-10-2019, 12:36
Do you really think that having spent so much time and money on S repro, that I do not try to get the best from it?
Who said you didn’t?
We were talking about setting up for shows, not using your own system at home. The two are very different propositions. For instance- have you ever moved house and had to set your system up again in a new room? Did you get an optimal sound within an hour or two??
When moving house I have found that the last thing on my mind is the Hi-Fi setup.
And yes, I have several times, but I have chosen the new place substantially on it projected suitability for sound, and later after the move I then pay attention to its optimisation.
Ali Tait
02-10-2019, 08:04
Exactly my point, it takes time!
There is always too much to do and limited time to do it when setting up for a show. It’s a lot of work, exactly how much I don’t think most people realise until they do it for themselves. We do the best we can in the time we have, and I’m pleased to say we usually get a lot of favourable comments on the sound we get, but then I think we are a bit more careful than most. Room treatment is a big help too.
I've just remembered that I helped set up the Cymbol stand at the '97 Penta show, so I do have some experience.
Ali Tait
02-10-2019, 12:09
LOL ok.
southall-1998_mk2
02-10-2019, 12:30
I've just remembered that I helped set up the Cymbol stand at the '97 Penta show, so I do have some experience.
Oh boy! That sounds like hard work.
S.
Everyone in the company was hard work, especially the MD, and even Tony Brady, but I think they went broke.
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