View Full Version : Photos In The Sales Section
Spectral Morn
15-09-2019, 16:28
If you can't inspect an item for sales personally, the next best thing is a set of quality large photos showing the front, back, sides, top and any accessories. I personally would not buy any item without seeing these.
I have to say as a member of the forum the number of ads with poor quality photos is shocking. Tiny, badly lit images that show no real effort or no images at all. Seriously how does anyone expect to sell anything with awful photos, and with no photos a buyer is taking a serious risk with what they may end up with.
At AoS, we require photos in ads in Private Exhibitions to protect buyers but also to help members get their items sold. The thing I don't understand is why is it so hard to read the rules (1) and comply. Now there are new members who can be, to a degree forgiven, but members who have not posted decent photos before, who continue to do so, well what's up with that? Also those who have been around for a long time who don't post ads with photos either, or the other one is to post an ad with photos to come - which isn't allowed? Surely selling the item is the goal, so some effort is needed.
As a Mod I have to say I am tired of having to chase folks, pm them or simply just delete the ads. The rules are clear, they are posted in Private Exhibitions. So what is the issue here? Are the rules unreasonable? I personally don't think so. Surely creating a great ad is a big step to getting an item sold, and having rules to enforce that hardly a major chore.
Another thing I personally look for is an ad thats well written and shows that the seller cares about what they are selling. So I think well written ads along with quality photos are also useful in getting a sale.
I am curious what members think?
(1)
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?63927-Photos-With-Adverts-Mandatory-Requirements!
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?41128-PLEASE-READ!-Current-rules-for-selling-in-private-classifieds-(please-read)
Totally agree, there is no excuse for no photos or poor photos particularly when 99% of people have a smartphone capable of taking good quality high definition photos, and lets face it the forum is set up to make posting photos a doddle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Light Dependant Resistor
16-09-2019, 01:44
Agree with the ethos, that there should be a standard of photo and description presentation, but as for 99% having smartphones
that is just too much of a generalisation, and needs some guidance /advice instead ,as to other camera's or devices that are up to the task.
Totally disagree with Steve-Z comment on it's a doddle posting photos.
It's a breeze if you know how.
Since Tiny pics shut down i struggle to post pics, so much so i asked Oliver ( Bigman80 ) to post for me.
It's always the same, if you can post pics it's assumed everyone can
Steve
Spectral Morn
16-09-2019, 07:00
Totally disagree with Steve-Z comment on it's a doddle posting photos.
It's a breeze if you know how.
Since Tiny pics shut down i struggle to post pics, so much so i asked Oliver ( Bigman80 ) to post for me.
It's always the same, if you can post pics it's assumed everyone can
Steve
Try Cubeupload https://cubeupload.com/
Thing is, it is easy. Upload to site, copy and paste img code, place code between on the site page while creating the ad. There is nothing hard about that.
Most modern phones take great photos. I use a digital camera or an ipad, not using a phone for such things.
All perfectly reasonable but can someone post a tutorial in non technical terms on HOW to post piccies?
I wouldn't know where to start.
BY the way I do not (yet) posses a smartphone but i have a good digital camera.
Sure, Julian, but how 'non-technical' do you want it to be? Is this guide not 'non-technical' enough: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?34611-****-A-simple-step-by-step-guide-showing-how-to-include-pictures-in-your-ads-****
Step-by-step pictures showing 'exactly* what to do. I don't know how much more 'non-technical' such guides can be?
Marco.
The bigger problem for me isn't folks not knowing HOW to post pictures, but not bothering to READ the rules, stating what's required, in the first place!!:doh:
And they're not exactly 'invisible' either, plastered as stickies at the top of the classifieds section... So some of you need to open yer peepers, and READ and DIGEST the rules for posting ads, ensuring that what you're about to include is compliant, rather than just ignorantly/lazily proceeding regardless!;)
Please take this opportunity, therefore, to become au fait with what is required before posting ads in the classifieds section: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?63927-Photos-With-Adverts-Mandatory-Requirements!
Remember that sales ads here are FREE, unlike on many other forums, nor is there a fairly high posts-total required before being able to access the classifieds section, as is the case elsewhere. No ebay fees either, and the audience here is (by and large) a different class to that of most places, simply because we insist on high standards, and have established a trustworthy community.
Therefore, adhering to the (reasonable) rules is hardly much to ask, as chances are, YOU (as a buyer or seller) will be the one who'll benefit!:)
Marco.
Light Dependant Resistor
16-09-2019, 07:51
Try Cubeupload.
Thing is, it is easy. Upload to site, copy and paste img code, place code between on the site page while creating the ad. There is nothing hard about that.
Most modern phones take great photos. I use a digital camera or an ipad, not using a phone for such things.
I am unsure about that : https://www.resetera.com/threads/cubeupload-spyware-notification.77958/
there would appear little justification to use such a website IMO ... rather
The 4 essential freedoms of software are needed more than ever - it seems, and explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJi2rkHiNqg
as are the ethics of free software and principles, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TOMeXnqvBg
Spectral Morn
16-09-2019, 08:03
I am unsure about that : https://www.resetera.com/threads/cubeupload-spyware-notification.77958/
there would appear little justification to use such a website IMO ... rather
The 4 essential freedoms of software are needed more than ever - it seems, and explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJi2rkHiNqg
as are the ethics of free software and principles, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TOMeXnqvBg
I have had no issues with the site, hence my suggesting it. The thread you link to has three comments, and no detail. Its a suggestion, members can take it or not.
there was an issue re cubeupload as some folk were using exe. files along with photos to push malware at one time. afaik this has been stopped by cubeupload and most if not all malware find engines were updated.
I dont use icubeupload myself, but mwb used to to red line it and not allow access to pics at one time.
Imagur is another freebie that works well. also flickr still, i think has a free low use policy too.
TBH tho i think the cost of most fee charging sites isnt prohibitive... Oh yes Tapatalk on mobiles is a good option too, although there will be ads soon if you dont pay £1 a month... Still not especially expensive and there is no minimum term..
The other thing I'd like to stress, is not to be reluctant or 'shy' to ASK FOR HELP if you need it, in terms of posting pictures, whether that be to a fellow member or contacting myself or one of the mods, in which case we will be only too GLAD TO HELP:)
At the end of the day, we're all reasonable people here, striving to make the site as enjoyable, professional and easy to use as possible, so requests for such assistance will never be frowned upon! Please remember that.
What *will be* frowned upon, however, and where from now on punitive action will be taken against members who've been here for some time and should know better, is showing a blatant disregard for the rules on posting pictures, flouting them accordingly, simply because they 'can't be arsed'.
From now on, anyone who qualifies as being guilty of such, can expect to lose their posting rights for one week.
Marco.
Audio Al
16-09-2019, 08:25
Photo :scratch: what is this thing called photo , Is it the man who hides under a black cloth and sets off some gun powder leaving you blind for 10 mins ?
If it is im lost with this modern tec nollagee :D
Totally disagree with Steve-Z comment on it's a doddle posting photos.
It's a breeze if you know how.
Since Tiny pics shut down i struggle to post pics, so much so i asked Oliver ( Bigman80 ) to post for me.
It's always the same, if you can post pics it's assumed everyone can
Steve
Should have said it’s a doddle if you have an iPad.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Anything is easy if you are familiar with it, and everything is common sense once you are in a position to see it that way, it is the logistics of getting into these positions which is often difficult.
eg. I am sure that a good streaming option can be found that meets my requirements, but I do not have access to the necessary information, presented clearly, and in a non convoluted way.
Totally disagree with Steve-Z comment on it's a doddle posting photos.
It's a breeze if you know how.
Since Tiny pics shut down i struggle to post pics, so much so i asked Oliver ( Bigman80 ) to post for me.
It's always the same, if you can post pics it's assumed everyone can
Steve
What is it you are struggling with?
Audio Al
17-09-2019, 05:19
I dont see myself as bright more of a numpty :)
However I don't have a problem with photos , People try and do it without paying for the service
I pay for photo bucket and do the following
Set my camera file size to 640 x 480 ( In image quality on your camera menu )
Take the photo / Photos
Load up photo bucket , click on upload , Then select the photos to upload , click upload
The photos are then in your library in P Bucket
Click on the photo and to the right you will see 4 options , Click on the 4th / bottom one , It will say coppied
Then go into your AOS for sale thread , right click on paste and you will see a shit load of gobbled gook numbers and letters , Click on preview and the photo should show , The click on post and you photo should be posted on the forum
:D
What is it you are struggling with?
Brexit.
Marco.
Anything is easy if you are familiar with it, and everything is common sense once you are in a position to see it that way...
That's why in that situation, you should seek help, rather than struggle, trying to familiarise yourself with something you don't understand.
I think I can speak for most here who know how to post pictures, certainly the moderators, that I have plenty of patience for helping those who are genuinely willing to learn [via PM, email or whatever] get to the stage where for them the process required becomes 'common sense'.
*But*... Those who need help, must speak up and ask for it, and in turn have the patience to be taught. Not just give up!
Oh, and while I'm at it, even those who know how to post pictures, some of you really need to up your game and take some pride in performing the task, rather than doing the bare minimum, producing some shoddy results in the process, which Neil has referred to, simply to fulfil an obligation.
Come on - take an extra 5 mins, or whatever, to ensure that the lighting is as good as it can be, the picture is in focus (reproduced to a decent size) and displays ALL the necessary information!
Marco.
Quote Originally Posted by karma67 View Post
"What is it you are struggling with?
Brexit.
Marco."
And even if you try not to, it is imposed on you.
Lol - never mind that, what do you think of post 19?
Marco.
Mike Reed
19-09-2019, 16:50
Wouldn't it be lovely to be able to simply upload pic's directly from folder to forum? I know, it's something about storage limits, whereas posting photos via a host minimises this.
A few years ago I was able to get Photobucket to work; not all the time but it's all I had, and built up a library. Then it went pear-shaped; I tried, and failed, to involve Imgur and one or two others, but they were beyond me. Couldn't even get to register with Imgur, I recall.
Luckily I've more or less reached the end game for hifi, and rarely sell anything anywhere. Guess I've no excuse, because I have a p.c. and quality camera and my wife is learning coding and could probably understand what I can't. However, I do empathise with those who find these hosting sites either unapproachable for whatever reason or just unhealthily frustrating.
Still, when I have time, need and inspiration I'll have another go; if, that is, I can follow the simple instructions for so doing. There surely must be a hosting site which is head and shoulders easier, more reliable and, essentially, designed for the digitally challenged.
Marco, I think post 19 was pretty fair and to the point, but my PC is so bloody awful to deal with that it demands all sorts of things which complicate any task, and this makes me reticent to try to do extras.
What complicates things is the deteriorated use of English in so many instructions, and also on the phone to various organisations, especially the larger ones. Often the sentences, even if they are enunciated clearly, are so poorly constructed, that it gives me despair.
I have now bought a Mac, but having been poor I tend to want to 'save it for best', and get the max life from this dreadful Win 10 PC.
Dating sites do facilitate direct uploading of pictures IME.
If our Members could simply upload any pictures directly to the site, that would be perfect. However, as has been stated elsewhere, this would require a massive increase in Forum storage capacity to be provided by our host, with a consequental increase in running costs to the Forum owner (Marco).
Image hosting sites have to be paid for, either through annoying pop-up advertising, or by charging users an annual fee. Photobucket, which used to be free, spoiled things by suddenly asking for an annual fee of something like £400! Their blatent avarice and greed backfired on them, with users simply abandoning the site and going elsewhere. Photobucket realising their mistake are now asking something like £48 a year for unlimited third party posting of images, with a maximum of 2,000 images, or free hosting and the ability to post on third party sites provided you put up with a large Photobucket 'watermark' plastered over your image.
If you have a need to post many images here on AoS (or elsewhere for that matter), £48 a year is not too much to pay. The image hosting site 'Imageshack' is, I believe, even cheaper at £30 per annum, and is just as good and as easy to use as Photobucket.
Imageshack is way better than photobucket imo. If your into photography then Flickr Pro is the best although not free by any means.
Imageshack is way better than photobucket imo. If your into photography then Flickr Pro is the best although not free by any means.
I have used free Flickr for some years - in fact I have two accounts so can potentially store a couple of thousand images gratis and for nix.
Absolutely no need to pay for a Flickr Pro account IMHO ( I had one and ditched it - not bothered by the occasional ads so why bother...)
Posting on here using Flickr links is a doddle really ... a literal no-brainer.
I don't buy any of the 'hapless technonumpty' arguments in this day and age, certainly not if you are posting regularly to an internet forum - or have ever set up a cartridge :lol:
I have serious concerns about putting any personal information in the public domain, even if apparently protected.
Mike Reed
20-09-2019, 08:57
Didn't know about the Photobucket watermark thing, Barry. I've seen these and don't think they're onerous; must investigate.
Struth, you fall into the trap of judging people based upon your own prowess. Age takes its toll and whereas I'm relatively capable, image hosting sites have always presented a challenge. 'If at first you don't succeed, give up', is an easy option when other things are more pressing.
Pharos, your comments on English are syntactically strange, but virtually everything computer/internet-wise is American English, which seems to diverge from British English at an alarming rate. I have to refer to my dictionary so many times because of error correction underscores, only to find these differences, even in the use of hyphens, proliferate, and not just in spellings. However, good grammatical English has been going to the dogs for quite a while now.:(
Having said that, my typographical skills have so deteriorated that error correction, flawed as it is, does assist my obligatory proof-reading.
Marco, I think post 19 was pretty fair and to the point, but my PC is so bloody awful to deal with that it demands all sorts of things which complicate any task, and this makes me reticent to try to do extras.
What complicates things is the deteriorated use of English in so many instructions, and also on the phone to various organisations, especially the larger ones. Often the sentences, even if they are enunciated clearly, are so poorly constructed, that it gives me despair.
I have now bought a Mac, but having been poor I tend to want to 'save it for best', and get the max life from this dreadful Win 10 PC.
Dating sites do facilitate direct uploading of pictures IME.
Ok, no worries. Good choice with the Mac. You should use it though, and enjoy your investment, as they're virtually bombproof. Mine gets heavily used every day, and has been so for the last six years. It's still working as well as it did when I bought it, with zero problems.
Anyway, if you ever need a hand posting pictures, just let me know, and everything will be 100% confidential:cool:
Marco.
Struth, you fall into the trap of judging people based upon your own prowess. Age takes its toll and whereas I'm relatively capable, image hosting sites have always presented a challenge. 'If at first you don't succeed, give up', is an easy option when other things are more pressing.
Such as? Opening another bottle of wine, or going for a round of golf, as is the want of retired chaps, such as yourself, with all the time in the world to learn how to use image-hosting sites!:ner:;)
Anyway, welcome back. Where have you been hiding?:)
Marco.
Mike Reed
20-09-2019, 12:00
Such as? Opening another bottle of wine, or going for a round of golf, as is the want of retired chaps, such as yourself, with all the time in the world to learn how to use image-hosting sites!:ner:;)
Anyway, welcome back. Where have you been hiding?:)
Marco.
Nowhere, Marco. Have been looking in fairly frequently and posting on the odd occasion; mainly on vinyl associated threads but that's just me ! To be truthful, I've had one of, if not THE busiest years to date, completely refurbishing a maisonette after tenants had abandoned it after 7 years. Recently remembered my age and limited abilities though, so getting out and hoping for an umpteenth retirement before octogenarian status hits. Hence no mental stamina for researching hosting sites etcetera.
Rather than just viewing and posting on AOS via a browser it’s far simpler to download the Tapatalk app onto either your phone or tablet, then when you create a thread or post there are 2 tabs at the bottom of the screen which allow you to either directly access your phone or tablets camera to take a photo or go to your photos app to access the photos you want to use. Couldn’t be simpler.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Mike Reed
20-09-2019, 14:29
Must be easier to learn a foreign language; don't need an i phone/pad/thing for that. :lol:
Although I've never had cause to use the private gallery to buy or sell what I can say is that I have never been able to post a pic on this forum.
I only use AoS on my phone and even using the tiny pic guide it just won't work and believe me I've tried.
it really doesn't get any easier than https://postimages.org/
It works! And when it comes to all computer related things, I'm AoS's resident numpty!
https://i.postimg.cc/R0r2SF1d/021.jpg
Thanks Jamie. :)
Mike Reed
20-09-2019, 19:40
it really doesn't get any easier than https://postimages.org/
I don't know how, but some of my pic's showed when I clicked the third box; wonder how it chose from all my pic's. No idea what a driver updater updater (sic) is. Instructions are incomprehensible, if indeed they ARE instructions. I did note that 31 days is the limit on library storage, though. This would be handy for the odd occasion if I knew how it worked or what the gobbledegook meant.
Promising, Jamie and thanks, but think it's beyond me as it is. Last December, Virgin installed their latest mandatory Tivo box of tricks. A big step back from its predecessor, as I now need the old and new remotes to operate volume etc., and still can't access Catch-up. Oh yes, it records stuff I haven't set up; quite often, too. No destructions came with it; why?????? Retrograde technology, I call it. Simplicity is good; complexity is not. (Rant over)
Barry, you're streets ahead of me when it comes to these things.
It took me a while to learn how to use it (and I can't find out how to delete an image), but with the "no expiration" option selected (actually it's the default option), images posted here ought to be permanent.
... couldn't be simpler :lol:
-- image removed (apparently subject to copyright restrictions) --
- and i didn't even need to register with them :scratch:
Rather than just viewing and posting on AOS via a browser it’s far simpler to download the Tapatalk app onto either your phone or tablet, then when you create a thread or post there are 2 tabs at the bottom of the screen which allow you to either directly access your phone or tablets camera to take a photo or go to your photos app to access the photos you want to use. Couldn’t be simpler.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Only problem I have with that is Tapatalk is bloody awful, it's like something from 2007.
The issue with picture uploading is trying to find a free hosting site that lets you post full size pics, the best and easiest for me is imgbb but it resizes the pictures in the links when posted to forums which apparently isn't good enough, which I find bizarre given that the full size picture is available and all you have to do is click it. I don't quite understand why that isn't sufficient.
"Pharos, your comments on English are syntactically strange, but virtually everything computer/internet-wise is American English, which seems to diverge from British English at an alarming rate. I have to refer to my dictionary so many times because of error correction underscores, only to find these differences, even in the use of hyphens, proliferate, and not just in spellings. However, good grammatical English has been going to the dogs for quite a while now."
I may make mistakes Mike, but usually not so, I may have been tired.
It does seem that American English, and also cultural values are becoming a norm here and very much manifest with younger people, who I suppose are subjected to much more influence.
I agree with you on good grammatical English, but also note that even well educated people are very often now expressing themselves poorly, and more worrying, often the structure of the expression reflects poor thought processes.
This is particularly noticeable on another audio site I post on, where at best it often results in ambiguity.
Also:
"I don't know how, but some of my pic's showed when I clicked the third box; wonder how it chose from all my pic's. No idea what a driver updater updater (sic) is. Instructions are incomprehensible, if indeed they ARE instructions. I did note that 31 days is the limit on library storage, though. This would be handy for the odd occasion if I knew how it worked or what the gobbledegook meant.
Promising, Jamie and thanks, but think it's beyond me as it is. Last December, Virgin installed their latest mandatory Tivo box of tricks. A big step back from its predecessor, as I now need the old and new remotes to operate volume etc., and still can't access Catch-up. Oh yes, it records stuff I haven't set up; quite often, too. No destructions came with it; why?????? Retrograde technology, I call it. Simplicity is good; complexity is not. (Rant over)"
Despite your criticism I see that you seem to concur, at least to an extent, with my stance.
I do not have a pad, and I do not have a mobile phone.
I have a sense of what may be described as inverted snobbery; if something is very popular I am suspicious of its cultural effects.
Recently there has been much in the media about the negative effects that much social media usage has on people, one aspect of which seems to be an inability to communicate clearly, another, sleep problems.
The issue with picture uploading is trying to find a free hosting site that lets you post full size pics,
Flickr has free accounts, is easy to join and allows you to link a range of sizes - up to the full resolution that you uploaded (not that that's always necessary or desirable):
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48766434441_5d679abf85_o.jpg
It works! And when it comes to all computer related things, I'm AoS's resident numpty!
https://i.postimg.cc/R0r2SF1d/021.jpg
Thanks Jamie. :)
Excellent... Now you can post pictures of your meals on the food thread;)
Marco.
Mike Reed
20-09-2019, 21:59
I may make mistakes Mike, but usually not so, I may have been tired.
It does seem that American English, and also cultural values are becoming a norm here and very much manifest with younger people, who I suppose are subjected to much more influence.
I agree with you on good grammatical English, but also note that even well educated people are very often now expressing themselves poorly, and more worrying, often the structure of the expression reflects poor thought processes.
This is particularly noticeable on another audio site I post on, where at best it often results in ambiguity.
Despite your criticism I see that you seem to concur, at least to an extent, with my stance.
I do not have a pad, and I do not have a mobile phone.
I have a sense of what may be described as inverted snobbery; if something is very popular I am suspicious of its cultural effects.
Recently there has been much in the media about the negative effects that much social media usage has on people, one aspect of which seems to be an inability to communicate clearly, another, sleep problems.
Dennis, apologies, but I wasn't aware of criticising you, but was almost certainly criticising the way things are going linguistically. However, I am rather biassed and a pedant to boot as the English language was my specific teaching subject for nearly 20 years (E.F.L.). Current bugbear is beginning an answer to a question with 'so'. It is becoming endemic to all classes, it seems, and sounds pretentious, albeit wrong. How can you start a sentence with a conjunction ? The greatest language doesn't need corrupting; only expanding. (Very tired rant over).
To your comments above, I am 'd'accord'.
Now you can post pictures of your meals on the food thread;)
Marco.
like this? (courtesy of postimage)
https://i.postimg.cc/g2PrZT5m/lunch.jpg
killie99
21-09-2019, 07:23
Postimages.org offers free image hosting, dead easy to use.
"Dennis, apologies, but I wasn't aware of criticising you, but was almost certainly criticising the way things are going linguistically. However, I am rather biassed and a pedant to boot as the English language was my specific teaching subject for nearly 20 years (E.F.L.). Current bugbear is beginning an answer to a question with 'so'. It is becoming endemic to all classes, it seems, and sounds pretentious, albeit wrong. How can you start a sentence with a conjunction ? The greatest language doesn't need corrupting; only expanding. (Very tired rant over)."
It seems to me that the use of the word "so" is designed to suggest; 'I have understood your point, and am now ready to deal with it'. But this seems inferential, leaning towards innuendo and rhetorical communication, and that is sad to me because our language is such a dexterous and flexible tool, and it is sacrilege to violate it.
I suppose that I am regarded as pedantic, because what one may suppose to be a baseline, is itself moving so far away from the English I knew, and which was so capable of conveying fine nuances of meaning poetic expression.
Why do so many, supposedly intelligentsia on media, have to start a sentence with "You know I mean", or "I mean I think"? We should have separate 'ranting threads.
Why do so many, supposedly intelligentsia on media, have to start a sentence with "You know I mean", or "I mean I think"? We should have separate 'ranting threads.
Because they are not intelligentsia but they are smart enough to have worked out that you can get paid for talking bollocks. There are otherwise well-educated people who think the opinions of a 16 year old girl are worth listening to - Greta Thurnberg/Joan Of Arc - nothing much ever changes. Mangling of the English language is a first world problem. And the English language is big enough and old enough to take it.
Mike Reed
21-09-2019, 11:10
And the English language is big enough and old enough to take it.
Your four groats' worth is appreciated, Martin, but 'and' is a conjunction too.:lol: There are so many forms of English now and with internet/social media based corruption, I guess you're right.
Dennis, I'm working on my tombstone epigraph a la Spike Milligan, only grammatically themed.
I've just returned from Barclays Bank after being asked by the teller if 'I received statements regular'. Seriously ! Of course, I corrected her but I really don't think she was educated enough to understand; a middle-aged woman, too!
Opti-cal
21-09-2019, 12:10
Unfortunately this is increasingly typical in the modern day chaps. Just the way of the world now. Less time for grammatical correctness but all the time in the world for the political aforementioned.
Stay out of it where you can is my mantra now and I'm 32.....
Mike Reed
21-09-2019, 14:55
I had a lively discussion with fellow teachers the other day on the past, present and the future. It was a tense debate.
take it you gave them a bit of verbal then
Your four groats' worth is appreciated, Martin, but 'and' is a conjunction too.:lol: There are so many forms of English now and with internet/social media based corruption, I guess you're right.
Dennis, I'm working on my tombstone epigraph a la Spike Milligan, only grammatically themed.
I've just returned from Barclays Bank after being asked by the teller if 'I received statements regular'. Seriously ! Of course, I corrected her but I really don't think she was educated enough to understand; a middle-aged woman, too!
Being able to use formal written English is essential but in speech I don't think it matters so much. And I count typing on forums as 'speech'. However I see too much poor grammar in written communication at work, there is no excuse for it there. They shouldn't be doing a job that requires it if they don't know how to do it.
They shouldn't be doing a job that requires it if they don't know how to do it.
Yup, and you always say the same about those Thai girls at the massage parlour, when they ease your aches and pains, but fail to deliver a 'happy ending'...:eyebrows:;)
Marco.
I know. I don't know why I keep going back there.
The current, and annoying, habit of starting a sentence with "so", is no different to the past habit of starting one with "well". It is just a device, which gives the respondent time to think of a suitable reply, yet indicate to the questioner that they are not being ignored. Silence, or to give it its modern term 'dead space', is very unsettling to listeners. That is why in a typical reply, there will be a lot or redundant "err"s and "um"s.
Whilst I lament the increasing mangling of the English language, it has to be remembered that English is a living language, which changes and adapts itself by, and to suit the users. As long as the message is clearly understood, then I will tolerate (though inwardly grimace at) the poor grammar.
That said, I still dislike the American fashion of using nouns as verbs: why say, for example “it was gifted”, when one should say, “it was given”? What is the difference between “authoring a book” and “writing a book”?
Greta, a joy to listen to, a Goddess compared with the cliched twaddle of the main media mob. I am also very impressed with what the young, 7 to 18 are saying, and the quality of their thinking, very mature and well expressed.
"Unfortunately this is increasingly typical in the modern day chaps. Just the way of the world now. Less time for grammatical correctness but all the time in the world for the political aforementioned. "
Yes, but if English is a tool, it is important that it be sharp to do its job properly.
"Being able to use formal written English is essential but in speech I don't think it matters so much. And I count typing on forums as 'speech'. However I see too much poor grammar in written communication at work, there is no excuse for it there. They shouldn't be doing a job that requires it if they don't know how to do it. "
Spoken word is different from that written, it also often is accompanied by intonation, inflexion and social signal cues from the speaker. I also hate being told to listen by the speaker, and stutter intros designed to get attention.
"As long as the message is clearly understood", that is a moot point, often it is ambiguous or unintelligible.
I think that you should always try to maintain high standards, whether communicating in writing or via speech, as otherwise it encourages laziness. Then bad habits set in, and before you know it, become the norm.
That's one of the reasons why I abhor 'text speak'. On the odd occasions I send texts, I write the same way as I would any other time, with proper spelling and punctuation, but frequently run out of space!:rolleyes:
Also, in the preparatory school I attended as a child, I was given elocution lessons and taught how to enunciate and articulate words properly, and improve my diction, so that I knew how to express myself clearly and precisely.
It's a skill I've used to great effect over the years, especially in job interviews, as you'd stand out from the crowd, and at one time, I don't know about now, in the types of jobs I was applying for, employers would consider it as an asset if you were well spoken and well mannered. Two skills that are sadly lacking among people in today's society.
It's also helped when I've done public speaking, as people tend to sit up and take notice of someone who's confident and can articulate themselves well, which helps get your point across. These days, as Dennis and Mike have pointed out, all you often get are unintelligible mumbles, or maybe a grunt if you're lucky...!
Marco.
a girl submitted this as an essay to her teacher in west of scotland school..
My smmr hols wr CWOT. B4, we usd 2go2 NY 2C my bro, his GF & thr 3 :- kds FTF. ILNY, it's a gr8 plc
:lolsign:
it translates to... My summer holidays were a complete waste of time. Before, we used to go to New York to see my brother, his girlfriend and their three screaming kids face to face. I love New York, it's a great place.
"Also, in the preparatory school I attended as a child, I was given elocution lessons and taught how to enunciate and articulate words properly, and improve my diction, so that I knew how to express myself clearly and precisely."
In primary school, in an ordinary country village, Ryton on Dunsmore, we were taught that we should be able to spell words from hearing their pronunciation. I believe that this is referred to as teaching phonemes, and often that is impossible with media people.
I'm also struggling with the numerousness and obscurity of acronyms.
Spectral Morn
22-09-2019, 08:56
:offtopic:
Spectral Morn
22-09-2019, 08:59
Language evolves, English isnt a static fixed thing, its organic. I am sure there were those cried about the good old days when thee, thou etc died.
This thread is about issues with photos in the sales section, still an issue since posting this thread. Still members wanting their cake and eat it, but not willing to follow the sites rules.
a girl submitted this as an essay to her teacher in west of scotland school..
My smmr hols wr CWOT. B4, we usd 2go2 NY 2C my bro, his GF & thr 3 :- kds FTF. ILNY, it's a gr8 plc
:lolsign:
it translates to... My summer holidays were a complete waste of time. Before, we used to go to New York to see my brother, his girlfriend and their three screaming kids face to face. I love New York, it's a great place.
Lol... We can laugh, but what's behind and has promoted shit like that, to the status of becoming 'the norm' among, say, the sub-30s, is partly why our society is in such a state:doh:
Marco.
Language evolves, English isnt a static fixed thing, its organic. I am sure there were those cried about the good old days when thee, thou etc died.
This thread is about issues with photos in the sales section, still an issue since posting this thread. Still members wanting their cake and eat it, but not willing to follow the sites rules.
Neil, it's all intrinsically linked, as it stems from having the right attitude and seeking to achieve high standards.
Lazy thinking, and the 'fuck it, I can't be arsed'/apply the minimal effort attitude, is as responsible for poor spoken and written communication these days, as it is for some members here putting crap pictures in their ads, or not reading the site's rules and complying with them.
As soon as you get into the above apathetic mindset, it manifests itself on your life in many different ways - none of it good!
Marco.
P.S. AoS thread-drift is legendary, and on this occasion it's given this rather important topic some free bumps;)
Mike Reed
22-09-2019, 09:56
A girl submitted this as an essay to her teacher in a west of Scotland school..
My smmr hols wr CWOT. B4, we usd 2go2 NY 2C my bro, his GF & thr 3 :- kds FTF. ILNY, it's a gr8 plc
:lolsign:
This would have flummoxed Alan Turing !
"
I'm also struggling with the numerousness and obscurity of acronyms.
Where I work everything is acronyms because the company sort of evolved from the US military. It's a nightmare. And you have to deal with the date being written the wrong way round too,
Mike Reed
22-09-2019, 10:14
Language evolves, English isn't a static fixed thing, its organic. I am sure there were those who cried about the good old days when thee, thou etc. died.
This thread is about issues with photos in the sales section, still an issue since posting this thread. Still members wanting their cake and eat it, but not willing to follow the sites rules.
Apologies for the continued diversion, but that age-old saw about English evolving (or any other language, presumably), misses the fundamental tenet that vocabulary evolves and syntax may change order and meaning, but the grammatical structure (not spelling) rarely does, and then only by underuse.
As an example of the proliferation of a grammatically impossible useage, ****self is reflexive only; it cannot be used as a subject; nor as an object unless the relevant personal pronoun precedes it. " Myself and my friend", e.g. A British Telecom ignoramus on the dog and bone (!) recently kept saying "yourself" instead of "you". After a number of admonishments by me, he put the phone down, thereby potentially losing a contract. Ignorance is still the bliss it always was, it seems.:)
Mike Reed
22-09-2019, 10:17
have to deal with the date being written the wrong way round too,
That really pisses me off; it's utterly illogical from a chronological viewpoint.
willbewill
22-09-2019, 12:08
That really pisses me off; it's utterly illogical from a chronological viewpoint.It would be more logical to use year/month/day.
it really doesn't get any easier than https://postimages.org/
A million thank yous Jamie, that's the first hosting site I've managed to get to work on this forum
"Lol... We can laugh, but what's behind and has promoted shit like that, to the status of becoming 'the norm' among, say, the sub-30s, is partly why our society is in such a state"
Probably more of an index/correlate than causal.
"Language evolves, English isnt a static fixed thing, its organic. I am sure there were those cried about the good old days when thee, thou etc died. "
Yes, but surely evolution and progression not retrogression.
"As soon as you get into the above apathetic mindset, it manifests itself on your life in many different ways - none of it good!"
Yes, it is a sloppiness which can become embedded in the person's character, and can wreak havoc on their whole lives.
As an example of the proliferation of a grammatically impossible useage, ****self is reflexive only; it cannot be used as a subject; nor as an object unless the relevant personal pronoun precedes it. " Myself and my friend", e.g. A British Telecom ignoramus on the dog and bone (!) recently kept saying "yourself" instead of "you". After a number of admonishments by me, he put the phone down, thereby potentially losing a contract. Ignorance is still the bliss it always was, it seems.:)
Regrettably this error is now widespread. No idea how it started but it winds me up something chronic. Especially when you've pointed out that not only is it incorrect but makes them sound like a total idiot, and then they carry on doing it! I have to put up with it every day at work, both with people on the phone and in e-mails. 'have you sent it to ourselves?' - One woman advised that it is 'The formal way' to say 'Have you sent it to us?'
When I told her that was utter bollocks she got quite sniffy.
English as we know it is a forgotten language. :(
The usage of "ourselves" as cited above has to me certain connotations.
It sounds like a Dickensian attempt to ingratiate the listener into an intimacy, as though the spoken to is being recruited into a clique.
https://i.postimg.cc/7PJ28rK4/Screenshot-20190923-100206.jpg
Mike Reed
23-09-2019, 09:32
Regrettably this error is now widespread. No idea how it started but it winds me up something chronic. Especially when you've pointed out that not only is it incorrect but makes them sound like a total idiot, and then they carry on doing it! I have to put up with it every day at work, both with people on the phone and in e-mails. 'have you sent it to ourselves?' - One woman advised that it is 'The formal way' to say 'Have you sent it to us?'
When I told her that was utter bollocks she got quite sniffy.
Agreed, Martin. However, like the 'so' preceding an answer, this reflexive use is pure pretentiousness. As you/Dennis says, this becomes embedded to create a new but utterly incorrect norm.. Norman has a lot to answer for !
Mike Reed
23-09-2019, 09:33
English as we know it is a forgotten language. :(
English as we KNEW it........ (fify) :)
"Lol... We can laugh, but what's behind and has promoted shit like that, to the status of becoming 'the norm' among, say, the sub-30s, is partly why our society is in such a state"
Probably more of an index/correlate than causal.
"Language evolves, English isnt a static fixed thing, its organic. I am sure there were those cried about the good old days when thee, thou etc died. "
Yes, but surely evolution and progression not retrogression.
"As soon as you get into the above apathetic mindset, it manifests itself on your life in many different ways - none of it good!"
Yes, it is a sloppiness which can become embedded in the person's character, and can wreak havoc on their whole lives.
Dennis, dear boy, one day in the (admittedly) distant future, when you've mastered how to post pictures on forums, and yes that monumentous event will occur, I'll take you to the next, albeit even headier level, and teach you how to use the quote function;)
Marco.
Regrettably this error is now widespread. No idea how it started but it winds me up something chronic. Especially when you've pointed out that not only is it incorrect but makes them sound like a total idiot, and then they carry on doing it! I have to put up with it every day at work, both with people on the phone and in e-mails. 'have you sent it to ourselves?' - One woman advised that it is 'The formal way' to say 'Have you sent it to us?'
When I told her that was utter bollocks she got quite sniffy.
And so she should
https://i.postimg.cc/Rhwk3r6W/Screenshot-20190923-110834-com-android-chrome.jpg
Although I'm sure dictionaries change according to modern trends.
I was certain than saying "can I GET" at, for example, a bar was incorrect, as get suggests fetching it yourself. However dictionaries suggest this is fine as it can mean recieve
Although I'm sure dictionaries change according to modern trends.
I was certain than saying "can I GET" at, for example, a bar was incorrect, as get suggests fetching it yourself. However dictionaries suggest this is fine as it can mean recieve
'May I have' is the correct form. 'Can I have' implies that you are asking if you are physically capable of having it.
Likewise with 'Can I get?' The correct response is 'I don't know, can you?'
Opti-cal
23-09-2019, 11:43
May I get . . . (a worthy thread-derailment gentlemen).
'May I have' is the correct form. 'Can I have' implies that you are asking if you are physically capable of having it.
Likewise with 'Can I get?' The correct response is 'I don't know, can you?'
Indeed, and I've often said that to an offender, and subsequently received a rather vacant look! :D:doh:
You could also substitute 'may' or 'can', above, with 'could'. Standards people, standards!
The question that begs asking, of course, is why are we now breeding so many of these dimwits...?
Marco.
Dennis, dear boy, one day in the (admittedly) distant future, when you've mastered how to post pictures on forums, and yes that monumentous event will occur, I'll take you to the next, albeit even headier level, and teach you how to use the quote function;)
Marco.
Thank you Marco.
Well done!:D
Now keep it up in future;)
Marco.
It seems that much of communication is connotative. (init)
BTW some of the above alternatives do invite piss taking;
"Can I get a drink?" That is quite possible, but I can't be sure.
People really have was too much time on their hands to get hot re language usage :ner:
Gaun yersel, is a gid yin....Shut yer geggy is another.... not English but threatening to be so:lol:
Ah now, regional vernacular/dialect is a rather different thing, and can be huge fun!:D
Ah widnae gie ye the steam aff ma pish, ya bawbag.
Marco.
Mike Reed
23-09-2019, 13:52
:
Ah widnae gie ye the steam aff ma pish, ya bawbag.
Marco.
Think that's a Glaswegian pleasantry.
Even in the fifties, I can't remember being taught the full gamut of the English language, although learning French did instill some aspects; esp regarding tenses. I encountered considerable left-leaning child centred tuition at college prior to the the chalk face but it wasn't until I became a supply teacher a decade later, covering diverse educational venues and, for he first time, many junior schools, that I became fully aware that grammar had effectively been dropped from the curriculum with the exception of some punctuation. I was rather spoilt thereafter by entering the E.F.L. arena, where the more you teach, the more you learn.. Better still, the more you understand the logic of the rules and usages.
I must confess that I enjoy writing on forums in order to keep up my skills now that my teaching days are behind me (unfortunately). There will soon come a time, though, when my execrable typographical skills will nullify any pretence at preserving linguistic skills.
By then, I hope that emojis displaying recognisable grunts will be available. Sort of 'back to the stoned ages', if you like.:lol:
Mike Reed
23-09-2019, 14:24
And so she should
https://i.postimg.cc/Rhwk3r6W/Screenshot-20190923-110834-com-android-chrome.jpg
Myself, him/herself, ourselves, yourself/ves and themselves are, whether for emphasis or not, reflexive pronouns. I find that Collins text rather vague. There might be a case where a reflexive pronoun can be used without its corresponding pronoun (or by implication) but I can't think of one. Reflexive means just that; it reflects (something gone before). Happy to learn otherwise, though.
Common oral (and probably written) error: 'my mate and myself went.....' . This fails on two fronts. The reflexive 'myself' has no 'I' to reflect, and, one should always be the second mentioned. 'Me and a mate went.....' has the object pronoun as a subject, let alone in the wrong order.
I do wonder, when it's as simple to speak/write correctly, even without any particular education, why this logical sequence has been erroneously stood on its head. It's almost as if another language structure was deemed superior to that laid down over centuries.
Think that's a Glaswegian pleasantry.
Indeed, much like this endearing snippet of witty repartee, between two gentlemen robustly vying for the affections of a young lady: 'Haw, fannybaws, ah'll scone yer dome wi ma chib, if a catch ye sookin ma burd's gash agin'.
Marco.
Which translated means, "I say old chap, would you be so good as to stop French kissing my wife's thatch"
...to which the other chap responded rather earnestly: 'Haud yur wheesht, ya glachit wee zoomer, or ah'll cowp ye oan the flair and marsbar yur coupon. She's the toon bike, so ah'll fire intae her if ah wahnt tae!'.
Marco.
'May I have' is the correct form. 'Can I have' implies that you are asking if you are physically capable of having it.
Likewise with 'Can I get?' The correct response is 'I don't know, can you?'
Wrong again
https://www.lexico.com/en/grammar/can-or-may
https://i.postimg.cc/tTx3wmXk/Screenshot-20190923-164352-com-android-chrome.jpg
Wrong again
https://www.lexico.com/en/grammar/can-or-may
Well, she certainly *couldn't*...
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/2484/weM7GS.gif
Marco.
As the Oxford English Dictionary is, and always has been, the definitive source of what is, or isn't, correct, I'm afraid we need to accept that what was once incorrect may not me nowadays.
As somebody mentioned earlier, the language changes with time so perhaps we are becoming the modern versions of those complaining about thou, ye etc being changed.
My Dad was taught, at a Grammar School in the 1930s,that contractions were lazy and poor grammar
Mike Reed
23-09-2019, 16:14
Wrong again
https://www.lexico.com/en/grammar/can-or-may
Yes, the only difference between the two modal verbs in that use is one of politeness. I do wish Marco would phrase his argot in Gaelic; might be more comprehensible, though I'm not sure that ignorance isn't bliss in this case.:lol:
Wrong again
https://www.lexico.com/en/grammar/can-or-may
What do you mean again? I was wrong once back in about 1999, is that what you're referring to? :D
Whilst whoever runs the OED these days (probably female and socialist) might have decided that just because it's common usage it's also correct doesn't make it so. The French take a distinctly different approach to protecting their language for example. And I'm really unhappy that you have forced me to bring up the French as a shining example of how things should be done.
Mike Reed
23-09-2019, 19:18
Mine's the New O.E.D., though it ain't very new; just big and heavy. The French failed dismally a few years ago in trying to protect the language from creeping anglicization, I remember. My New O.E.D. is definitely apolitical as it's printed on both left and right-hand pages.
Much of what Mike says is beyond me, I only have 'O' level English, but what does seem to be so is that when he asserts a correct form of expression, my feelings, (instinctual and programming formed), feel correct.
Mike Reed
24-09-2019, 07:41
Much of what Mike says is beyond me, I only have 'O' level English, but what does seem to be so is that when he asserts a correct form of expression, my feelings, (instinctual and programming formed), feel correct.
Snap, Dennis. I only have 'O' level English as well (in school qualifications). I've been lucky, though (with hindsight) to have gone into the E.F.L. teaching profession, underpaid and overworked as it was. Great fun, however. I wouldn't be able to tell a preposition from a pronoun otherwise; well, maybe I exaggerate a little.
My apologies to Jamie, who linked a very viable hosting site, only to have his thread hijacked by linguistic pedants (or is that 'peasants'?). The culpability is shared, but I put my hand up in faux remorse for my part. Jamie, I shall seriously have a go at your suggestion as soon as that part of my brain surfaces.:)
i was prepositioned once... :eyebrows:
I feel it important to point out to Marco that someone not doing something, is not necessarily an indication of a lack of aptitude, intelligence, ability, or discipline.
I have a general stance of not bothering with so much because it is often so banal, for eg', R4 after the news at nine this morning. Cues to this are often provided by the lack of enthusiasm, engagement and conviction, by the presenters.
I feel it important to point out to Marco that someone not doing something, is not necessarily an indication of a lack of aptitude, intelligence, ability, or discipline.
No, but it could be an indication of apathy, or simply sheer laziness; neither of which are attractive traits;)
What annoys me is the seemingly ingrained attitude these days of people stumbling through life without pushing or challenging themselves, or having the desire to perform tasks to the BEST of their ability. What happened to having pride in one's achievements? Too many now are too content on doing the bare minimum, and being stuck in a comfort zone.
And to the extent that we currently live in a society where mediocrity has become the acceptable norm, and 'adequate', as opposed to exceptional, is considered as enough. Most folks, if they wanted to, could do better! Therefore, as I said earlier to Neil, it goes back to having the right attitude. No-one has ever been rewarded for underachieving...
Therefore, the sort of people we want on AoS, are those who push themselves and strive for excellence, rather than simply settle for mediocrity.
Marco.
My apologies to Jamie, who linked a very viable hosting site, only to have his thread hijacked by linguistic pedants (or is that 'peasants'?). The culpability is shared, by I put my hand up in faux remorse for my part. Jamie, I shall seriously have a go at your suggestion as soon as that part of my brain surfaces.:)
Succinctly put Mike. We should use it to kick start the thread into getting back on topic. Let's see more of our resident (and wholly acknowledged) picture-posting 'numpties', such as Gaz, who's now been reinvigorated, after having 'seen the light', access the site that Jamie has linked to, and subsequently become au-fait with the required procedure!:cool:
Marco.
Mike Reed
24-09-2019, 10:48
i was prepositioned once... :eyebrows:
Not by a relative pronoun, I hope. (Sorry; last gasp !)
whomever :) i was the object of her desires until i showed her a picture of Marco:lol:
Then she ran a mile!:eek::eyebrows:
Marco.
As the Oxford English Dictionary is, and always has been, the definitive source of what is, or isn't, correct, I'm afraid we need to accept that what was once incorrect may not me nowadays.
As somebody mentioned earlier, the language changes with time so perhaps we are becoming the modern versions of those complaining about thou, ye etc being changed.
The OED simply records the usage of the English language, and provides the origin (or first use) and etymology of a word in question. It does not advise on the correct or appropriate use of a word. The latter is not the purpose of a dictionary.
The online one does
That's where most of the quotes I've posted came from
Mike Reed
24-09-2019, 19:51
The OED simply records the usage of the English language, and provides the origin (or first use) and etymology of a word in question. It does not advise on the correct or appropriate use of a word. The latter is not the purpose of a dictionary.
By way of using example phrases and sentences, my New O.E.D. does indicate (appropriate) usage; it borders on the encyclopaedic in places. (Dammit ! Sucked in again !)
Mike Reed
24-09-2019, 19:54
Always liked Chambers.
Very good for soliciting, too; possibly where you were prepositioned ?:lol:
By way of using example phrases and sentences, my New O.E.D. does indicate (appropriate) usage; it borders on the encyclopaedic in places. (Dammit ! Sucked in again !)
My 2-volume Shorter OED (1978), does give example phrases and sentences, but these are all historical uses by writers and poets. The only guide to the appropriate usage, or not, is through comments that, for example, the usage is obsolete, or regarded as coarse slang etc.
"Therefore, the sort of people we want on AoS, are those who push themselves and strive for excellence, rather than simply settle for mediocrity."
If this is directed at me, I suggest that if you had seen just how hard I have been pushing myself over the last ten years Marco, (resulting in heart failure), you might then see why there are some things at which I do not want to keep driving myself hard.
Nope, not at all. It was a general observation. In any case, I hope you've since made a full recovery and are feeling much better now:)
Marco.
Thank you Marco, and I am actually.
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