I'm just a primary school teacher and I need help :(

[tornpower]

I grew up in a household where Reggae was played a lot. D.B.C broadcast from my mums roof for a few years and old tapes were laying about when I was thirteen. It became a passion, but I was always digging on the internet listening to low grade reproductions. I shied away from actually owning anything until I was recently blown away by an acquaintance's high end system playing some of my favourites on mint vinyl. I was converted on the spot to wanting/needing a rig and high fidelity recordings of my own.

I am now obsessively buying early 70s 45s, fiendishly creating/curating my own little selection of the strictly baddest, rarest cuts I can afford. The problem is... I don't even have a record player :scratch:. I have an 80s Pioneer amp and a pair of Dynaudio audience 40s. Together they cost £300. I am on a mission to find the ultimate set up - I have been saving and will have £3-4k to spend - I am potentially prepared to go higher. I know it may seem vulgar to you professionals to jump so quickly to the mid-leagues but when I listen to my collection for the first time its going to honestly be one of my great experiences and to do it on the deepest, richest, cleanest sound possible would be sublime.

However my amateur forum lurking and asking around have opened my eyes to the unbelievable range of options. It is frankly staggering and overwhelming. There don't seem to be clear cut answers, but strongly held and argued opinions each particular to the amp, speaker, type of music, room size, even speaker box shape etc. I have only just (thanks Crackles!) been made aware that 'cleanest' sound may not even be appropriate for my predominantly reggae and dub collection.

I hate the look of anything really post 1995 but prob pre 1992 is good enough. I have been told that buying vintage means potentially having any thing I buy - speaker, amp - fully refurbished at potentially considerable expense - I am up for doing this. I am looking for the dream set up that any of you knowledgable people could imagine given my requirements. I am now fully conscious that Reggae and Dub are not appropriate for lots of the audiophile equipment promoted here. I am hoping that this is not strictly true and/or there is a likeminded soul who thinks there is an option for me, or knows what wold work. Ive also been told that speaker design has advanced massively since the 70s so is it sensible to go for the most modern speaker if you were being totally honest about sound? Is this also true of amps? I am asking this hoping that there is still magic in the old models that cant be replicated!

Ive asked a lot of friends but not sure they really know what they are talking about or that it is really reggae vinyl I will be playing. But I have been recommended by them to get either Quad Mono block amps or Leak Stereo 20 amp or and, this was really sold to me, a Croft OTL power amp. Speakers people have been suggesting Tannoy (my friend said the 15 DMT II). I have been looking and like what people are saying about the Rodgers 5/9s. Are any of these suggestions good? I have no idea what I am doing, what even a pre-amp/power amp is? Is it crazy of me to be looking into valve without any prior knowledge/experience? Are they even appropriate for reggae? I say this as humbly as possible, I have been reading your posts for some time and am astounded by the level of expertise on display.

Questions:

1. What is the best power amp, pre amp, speaker, deck combo for early 70s Dub and Reggae vinyl?

2. I will mostly play in my 20 x 30 ft living room but would like once and a while to take the system out to my huge barn for a dance. Is this possible or do I literally need two set ups? Can I shift between the two with the right components?

3. Are OTL Mono Blocks power amps and good Tannoy speakers (which ones!?) the ones for me?

Budget £3-4k

In eternal gratitude to those reading this. Apologies for such a long post and for my ignorance. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks :)

[Bigman80]

Hi Arthur,

PA system for the barn. It's the only real way to do it. Some proper speakers too, none of this off the shelf stuff.

As for the house, I wouldnt want tannoys imo. The bass will not be what you're looking for. I can't think of a Better AMP for reggae than a Krell amplifier. They are phenomenal in the bass. May be too pricey so I'd look for a bit of value in the used market but avoid valve.

I like DIY preamp like the DCB1 and that combination is a killer.

Off the shelf preamp I'd go for a Khozmo passive just because I rate Areks work highly.

Speakers, Lord knows but I'd go big, like the JBL Ti5000 that's for sale on another forum. They won't let you down.

Anyone who suggests valves in this instance is a madman. Not enough grip on the bass.

You should be able to put together a superb runner for your budget and IF you buy well, you may have a bit of change.

As for TT, I'd go for a well maintained techie 1210. It will survive that low end from your music choice. Used in clubs for decades and made a hell of good sound in crap conditions.

Others may suggest otherwise, up to you to decide.

[Pharos]

I agree with Oliver about a Krell power amp, and that valves are inappropriate for reggae, which 'rests' on its bass lines.

I do think that some of the larger Tannoys may suit, I have been to parties where the hired DJ has preferred to use the host's Tannoys rather than his own because they are better. JBLs are also as he stated, L100s come to mind, and they have a hell of a heritage in speaker design.

I also agree about the Technics turntable, and think maybe a second hand Quad preamp, maybe a 34 or similar would suit.

Oh, and I forgot to say that the 5/9 is somewhat lacking in bass and sound level capacity, the 5/8 being better but both BBC voiced, and the latter the size of a washing machine.

[graham67]

Hi Arthur,
Start with speakers as these are key to getting the sound you want. I second (or third!) the suggestion of JBL monitors from the 70s/80s l100, l112, 4310 4311 4312, l40. These all sound good with bass heavy music.
They are also built like tanks so could survive being moved if needed.
I own JBL and various Rogers speakers and wouldn't recommend Rogers for reggae, far too restrained and British. You need ballsy Yank boxes for partying to Bob and co. For much the same reason I wouldn't recommend a Quad 34 preamp. I own a nice 34 but its a bit polite for heavy beats.
The only place where valves may have a place is the phono stage. If you have a solid state amp in conjunction with pounding speakers, a valve phono stage can inject some much needed delicacy and ameliorate any sharpness in the mid and treble.
Also agree that a Technics direct drive turntable is way to go for the deck, they are fast and clean in the bass. Again built to withstand abuse from DJs and easy to set up after being moved. For this type of music, a good MM cart will likely serve you better.

[tornpower]

Thank you all very much. Great that you all agree on a Krell amplifier. Would this one work: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KRELL-KSA-100-MK-2-CLASS-A-POWER-AMPLIFIER/264330672897 ?

I have found many of the JBL models suggested from international ebay sellers. Is there anything I should be looking out for in terms of refurbishment. Things that are likely to have needed replacing and should be mentioned in sale? Is one of the models the absolute best? Are the 80/early 90s models more sophisticated because of innovation? Is there a JBL equivalent speaker choice anyone recommends?

Accept the Quad 34 might not be the best choice for reggae. What would be a good preamp to go for?

Excuse my ignorance but Graham when you said it might be good to introduce a valve phono stage. What does this mean? Is this a valve preamp?

This is going to sound really amateur but the Krell amplifier plus this Croft valve phonostage (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Croft-riaa-RS-MM-valve-phonostage/283599722199?hash=item4207dc56d7:g:6gMAAOSwfHBcuek a) do not have any volume, treble, bass, channel knobs on. If I introduced a valve phono stage then would I also need a preamp with the controls on it? Another user suggested that for a reggae setup Jah Tubby's (http://www.jahtubbys.co.uk/equipment.html) preamplifiers are good - they certainly have enough controls! Would this kind of preamp compromise the other components?

Cheers for all the support!

Arthur

[AJSki2fly]

Hello Arthur

I think the krell would be good but others on here are motor knowledgable on them than me. The croft phono you mention is good. But aren’t you already nearly at your budget limit, there are good ones around for under £1k, Graham Slee are vfm. Turntable, I think someone else suggest a 1210 that had been cared for, you also need to consider careful positioning and isolation if you intend medium to loud volumes. A simple cheap option is to go for a passive pre-amp which has an attenuator as volume pot, look at the Tisbury, very good and won’t colour the sound. If you want a pre-amp with tone controls then I don’t have any knowledge on them. Speakers I would say a good pair of JBL L100’s or larger JBLs, alternatively Tannoys, but you need advise on Tannoys some early ones have a particular sound characters that can be an issue for some.

Cheers

Adrian

[Mr.Ian]

Personally I think a bit more back ground info is needed, the main room is large, how far away from the speakers will you be sitting. If you are very close up you don't need to fill the whole room with sound. Secondly the turntable, it will need a cartridge and a second hand turntable will probable need a new cartridge or a rebuild. Cartridges are very very delicate and serious money. Who might mess with it. Do you need quality or durability. What about ripping the 45s to a hard drive. High quality rip. Turntable needs to play 45s.

How about high quality, don't touch my deck, period gear for the main room and some pro audio from a hard drive for the barn

[Lawrence001]

I said on the other thread that if you like your bass a bit loose, which some reggae heads actually do, then valve amps are ok. I've met a few of them with valve amps, in fact all I've met have them. The tight bass of a Krell might not do it for you.

An audiophile forum may not be the best forum to ask, at least not everyone on it unless they have experience of the genre, not just the music but the specialist systems used by afficionados. They will also have different views on what a system should sound like. I'd try and listen to a couple of systems yourself first to compare before splashing out.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

[Pharos]

Around your price level I would not be looking for a dedicated phono pre, the designs of which are because the manufacturers think that those integrated already in many preamps are not up to the job.

Personally I think an AVI S2000 pre would do the job at a low price, and the phono stage is IMO very good.
(I have one in reserve to back up my more expensive one, the pre+power+speakers costing £34k new).

My opinion of the 34 is not based on experience, my only having had a 33, but on general reputation.

[shahsy]

Hi Tornpower,
I too listened to DBC back in the day along with Rodigan and Tony Williams on a Saturday and Sunday!

I would recommend the following -

Record Deck - Garrard 401, Technics SP10 or SL1200 ordered in decreasing cost

Pre Amp (if needed) - World Audio Pre3 and Phono 3

Amp - Radford STA25, Krell KSA80, Musical Fidelity A5 (integrated) or A5 Pre/Power. I've also used a Rotel Michi and a Mr Liang 845 valve power amp happliy.

Speakers - Tannoy DMT15 Not easy to find but very efficient and easy to drive.

I've used/own all the above except the Technics SL1200 to happily play mainly 70's and early 80's reggae vinyl pressed in JA, UK and USA.

You will of course hear the bacon frying in the background with the Studio One presses!

'hope that helps!

Sid

[Patrick Dixon]

I know it may seem vulgar to you professionals to jump so quickly to the mid-leagues but when I listen to my collection for the first time its going to honestly be one of my great experiences and to do it on the deepest, richest, cleanest sound possible would be sublime.


It's not vulgar, but what you will miss out on is hearing a lot of stuff in your own environment which will help you understand what works for you and what doesn't; and where the acceptable compromises are.

So I reckon, you should get yourself invited to hear lots of other people's systems and make you own mind up rather than getting 'blind' recommendations. Probably everyone on this forum has a unique combination of components and you will probably finish up with something different again. You'll need to choose speakers that work with your room, and an amplifier that will drive your speakers, and a deck, arm, cartridge and phonostage that work together. So think in terms of combinations rather than individual components.

[struth]

I usually suggest getting speakers that will work for you and your enviornment first and working back. I know others feel you start with an amp but im right :ner:

[tornpower]

Thanks for the heads up Pharos. I will avoid the phonostage for now.

Cheers for backing the Krell, JBLs and potentially Tannoys Adrian. When you say bigger JBLs could recommend a model?

Mr. Ian - inside the room i will be around two metres away. Its a small space. I am happy not to get a vintage vinyl player. Technics options seem sensible to me. What would yo recommend?

Lawrence, I still want to be able to tweak the levels. In my experience with these singles all of them want a different mixture of bass/treble. I will have to get up every three minutes anyway to change the track so its not a huge problem to be adjusting for each song. What I wanted to know is will the presumably inferior quality of the Tubby component (http://www.jahtubbys.co.uk/equipment.html) undermine everything else? Is there a high end audiophile preamp where you can adjust the levels, that you would recommend?

Sid, that is amazing thank you. So you have no problem with the Radford valve amp and its bass? It looks killer tbh. The Krell KSA80 looks like the one for me now. Maybe ill save up for the Radford if you think its worth it. I cant find the pre amps you suggested, are they vintage? Those Tannoys are the ones my friend recommended i can only find them for £2500 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163855456988?ViewItem=&item=163855456988) will these particular units likely need servicing? Do you disagree with the consensus that the JBL L100s are also good for the job? Do I need a sub as well? What is your opinion of the Jah Tubby pre amps?

Joe Gibbs and Upsetter labels are my jam.

Patrick I am going to take this relatively slow and will try and listen to what I can. Just don't have audiofile pals and am an impatient impulsive little man!

Thanks so much for all your input. Feeling positive about the world this morning! :)

[Mikeandvan]

Think I saw somewhere on PFM that idler TT's are good with reggae.

[AJSki2fly]

Thanks for the heads up Pharos. I will avoid the phonostage for now.

Cheers for backing the Krell, JBLs and potentially Tannoys Adrian. When you say bigger JBLs could recommend a model?

Mr. Ian - inside the room i will be around two metres away. Its a small space. I am happy not to get a vintage vinyl player. Technics options seem sensible to me. What would yo recommend?

Lawrence, I still want to be able to tweak the levels. In my experience with these singles all of them want a different mixture of bass/treble. I will have to get up every three minutes anyway to change the track so its not a huge problem to be adjusting for each song. What I wanted to know is will the presumably inferior quality of the Tubby component (http://www.jahtubbys.co.uk/equipment.html) undermine everything else? Is there a high end audiophile preamp where you can adjust the levels, that you would recommend?

Sid, that is amazing thank you. So you have no problem with the Radford valve amp and its bass? It looks killer tbh. The Krell KSA80 looks like the one for me now. Maybe ill save up for the Radford if you think its worth it. I cant find the pre amps you suggested, are they vintage? Those Tannoys are the ones my friend recommended i can only find them for £2500 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163855456988?ViewItem=&item=163855456988) will these particular units likely need servicing? Do you disagree with the consensus that the JBL L100s are also good for the job? Do I need a sub as well? What is your opinion of the Jah Tubby pre amps?

Joe Gibbs and Upsetter labels are my jam.

Patrick I am going to take this relatively slow and will try and listen to what I can. Just don't have audiofile pals and am an impatient impulsive little man!

Thanks so much for all your input. Feeling positive about the world this morning! :)

Hi Arthur,

I would be cautious of over powering you room with too big speakers, or you may induce bass reflection and re-enforcement. The Tannoys you mention should be good and they will be robust.

In my early twenties I and a friend were invited to a reggae party in Wandsworth in an old block of flats, and great fun it was. The two Rastafarians whose party and flat it was had their system set up in a 18' by 12' room, they were very proud of it, there were a pair of home made open baffle cabinets about 5' tall and two 15" Tannoy bass drivers in each, a couple of mids and a tweeter. They were hooked up to I think a Thorens deck, Sansui equaliser, can't remember the pre-amp and I think a huge JVC power amp which ran very hot. It sounded very impressive and was very loud, you did not stand in front of the speakers as the bass just hit you in the guts. I remember they said the deck was in a very heavy plinth and was carefully isolated. My point it was great for a party and frightening the neighbours but not something you would want to sit down and listen to everyday.

I think the Krell would be a good amp, from the power and sound quality point of view. If you want to taylor the sound then why not try something like this to start with, not expensive and you can see if it works for you or not https://www.vintagechief.com/sansui-se-510-equalizer-21793, or maybe https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotel-RE-700-Vintage-graphic-equalizer/174023986142?hash=item2884a34bde:g:m1IAAOSwfDtdNI9 X. About pre-amp there others who know Krells better than me and know what works well with them.

TT I would say either something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorens-TD125-Mk11-Turntable-SME-3009-fixed-shell-arm-Shure-V15-Supertrack/383152635940?hash=item5935ad4024:g:FEIAAOSwbYddfQQ c or a Direct drive like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-Technics-SL-1210-MK2-Turntable-With-Custom-Black-Carbon-Covers/173966995977?hash=item28813db209:g:ZVQAAOSwm-BdLiRQ or maybe a good Garrard 301 in heavy plinth. Remember whatever you get you need is isolated and not in front of the speakers or being hit by reflected sound.

Just for you I have just listened to Third World on my system while writing and the bass from the 15" Tannnoys at sensible levels is pretty good, I currently have UB40 - "Present Arms IN DUB" on and this is impressive, I certainly can fell the pumping bass and driving bass drum.

I hope this helps a bit.

[shahsy]

Yes Arthur, I'll go through you questions one by one -

So you have no problem with the Radford valve amp and its bass? It looks killer tbh. - Playing at home through Tannoys or Yamaha NS1000m's the Radford is fine as both are efficient speakers.

The Krell KSA80 looks like the one for me - This one will save you money in the winter as you won't need the heating on in winter.

I cant find the pre amps you suggested, are they vintage? These I had made by World Designs.

Do you disagree with the consensus that the JBL L100s are also good for the job? I have no knowledge of these.

What is your opinion of the Jah Tubby pre amps? - Hmmmm Jah Tubbys (Keith) from East London he makes sound system pre-amps mostly mono 3 or 4 way crossovers......with weight, mid and treble cutouts and parametric eq's

Joe Gibbs and Upsetter labels are my jam. - How can you leave out Bunny Lee productions with King Tubby's version sides? And Channel One and Freedom Sounds, Keith Hudson, Niney, Jammy's, Pablo etc etc.....I'm sure you know about them!


Build a mini sound system, a couple of twin Fane 18 inch bass reflex, some Celestion 12's or 10's on mid and some horn tweeters with some PA amps then run it through an EQ, some parametric, siren effects and an echo/delay unit.....you will be happy!:D

If I had the space (and not the neighbours), I would sell all of my gear and go down that road.....it's the music that matters and reggae is true full range music.......it was always mixed for sound system not Hi-Fi 5 inch in bass units!

Cheers

Sid

[Macca]

I grew up in a household where Reggae was played a lot. D.B.C broadcast from my mums roof for a few years and old tapes were laying about when I was thirteen. It became a passion, but I was always digging on the internet listening to low grade reproductions. I shied away from actually owning anything until I was recently blown away by an acquaintance's high end system playing some of my favourites on mint vinyl. I was converted on the spot to wanting/needing a rig and high fidelity recordings of my own.

I am now obsessively buying early 70s 45s, fiendishly creating/curating my own little selection of the strictly baddest, rarest cuts I can afford. The problem is... I don't even have a record player :scratch:. I have an 80s Pioneer amp and a pair of Dynaudio audience 40s. Together they cost £300. I am on a mission to find the ultimate set up - I have been saving and will have £3-4k to spend - I am potentially prepared to go higher. I know it may seem vulgar to you professionals to jump so quickly to the mid-leagues but when I listen to my collection for the first time its going to honestly be one of my great experiences and to do it on the deepest, richest, cleanest sound possible would be sublime.

However my amateur forum lurking and asking around have opened my eyes to the unbelievable range of options. It is frankly staggering and overwhelming. There don't seem to be clear cut answers, but strongly held and argued opinions each particular to the amp, speaker, type of music, room size, even speaker box shape etc. I have only just (thanks Crackles!) been made aware that 'cleanest' sound may not even be appropriate for my predominantly reggae and dub collection.

I hate the look of anything really post 1995 but prob pre 1992 is good enough. I have been told that buying vintage means potentially having any thing I buy - speaker, amp - fully refurbished at potentially considerable expense - I am up for doing this. I am looking for the dream set up that any of you knowledgable people could imagine given my requirements. I am now fully conscious that Reggae and Dub are not appropriate for lots of the audiophile equipment promoted here. I am hoping that this is not strictly true and/or there is a likeminded soul who thinks there is an option for me, or knows what wold work. Ive also been told that speaker design has advanced massively since the 70s so is it sensible to go for the most modern speaker if you were being totally honest about sound? Is this also true of amps? I am asking this hoping that there is still magic in the old models that cant be replicated!

Ive asked a lot of friends but not sure they really know what they are talking about or that it is really reggae vinyl I will be playing. But I have been recommended by them to get either Quad Mono block amps or Leak Stereo 20 amp or and, this was really sold to me, a Croft OTL power amp. Speakers people have been suggesting Tannoy (my friend said the 15 DMT II). I have been looking and like what people are saying about the Rodgers 5/9s. Are any of these suggestions good?


Forget the Leak, the OTLs and the QUAD monos, but the Tannoy DMT15 are a good suggestion. You've got a big room so it would really make the most of them. Buy a sack truck to move them about and they will also work well in the party barn. £2K is about right for a pair in good condition. Tannoy Ardens would also be a good alternative. Big JBLs would be better but much harder to find second hand and new is outside your budget. The smaller JBL like the L100 and its variations do not have deep bass, they would not be my recommendation for a fan of dub. Neither would the Rogers speakers.

The amp you have now would work fine with the Tannoys, although it isn't going to give you the best possible sound quality. A Krell KSA100 would be better! take into account it is the size of a suitcase and a two man lift - unless you're mister muscles. Obviously with a power amp you need to consider a matching pre-amp. I use mine with a Nelson Pass designed DCB1 pre amp. Very good match, you can get someone here like Ollie to knock you one up. Will not break the bank.

Otherwise I'd say go for a flagship integrated amp from the 1980s or 1990s, Sony, Marantz, Sansui, JVC. Won't cop out in the bass and will go to gig volumes with the Tannoys without any sweat. Ideally look for one that's been serviced. They come up pretty much all the time.

Don't listen to the idea that you want a bit of a 'rough' sounding system to make it sound authentic. The authenticity is on the recordings it isn't inherent in the system. I know those old dancehall PAs could sound a bit rough but that was because they couldn't afford any better. If you'd have asked the owners would they like to improve them the answer would have been yes!

Turntables - good suggestions made already. Technics the obvious choice. If you want to go new the SL1200 GR would be my pick, it's better than the old SL1200 model https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-SL-1200GR-Direct-Drive-Turntable-Silver-Technics-2017/303269534113?epid=21020813117&hash=item469c45d9a1:g:QbkAAOSwOKldaS26 - otherwise loads of second hand direct drives by Technics, Sony, Toshiba and so on. They'll all give a decent sound if properly sited and set up.

Whatever you do don't skimp on the speakers, that is far and away the most important part of a system like this. Very large speakers with good power handling and deep bass are an absolute essential. You can always wing it a bit on the deck and the amp and maybe improve them later if you run out of budget on the speakers.

[Pigmy Pony]

+1 for Macca's suggestions, except I'd look for a tidy secondhand SL1200/1210 as opposed to a new deck, that would free up £500 or so to go towards the biggest badass JBLs you can afford, powered by a 70's jap amp (which will have a phono stage built in).

[tornpower]

Hi Arthur,

I would be cautious of over powering you room with too big speakers, or you may induce bass reflection and re-enforcement. The Tannoys you mention should be good and they will be robust.

In my early twenties I and a friend were invited to a reggae party in Wandsworth in an old block of flats, and great fun it was. The two Rastafarians whose party and flat it was had their system set up in a 18' by 12' room, they were very proud of it, there were a pair of home made open baffle cabinets about 5' tall and two 15" Tannoy bass drivers in each, a couple of mids and a tweeter. They were hooked up to I think a Thorens deck, Sansui equaliser, can't remember the pre-amp and I think a huge JVC power amp which ran very hot. It sounded very impressive and was very loud, you did not stand in front of the speakers as the bass just hit you in the guts. I remember they said the deck was in a very heavy plinth and was carefully isolated. My point it was great for a party and frightening the neighbours but not something you would want to sit down and listen to everyday.

I think the Krell would be a good amp, from the power and sound quality point of view. If you want to taylor the sound then why not try something like this to start with, not expensive and you can see if it works for you or not https://www.vintagechief.com/sansui-se-510-equalizer-21793, or maybe https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotel-RE-700-Vintage-graphic-equalizer/174023986142?hash=item2884a34bde:g:m1IAAOSwfDtdNI9 X. About pre-amp there others who know Krells better than me and know what works well with them.

TT I would say either something like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thorens-TD125-Mk11-Turntable-SME-3009-fixed-shell-arm-Shure-V15-Supertrack/383152635940?hash=item5935ad4024:g:FEIAAOSwbYddfQQ c or a Direct drive like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-Technics-SL-1210-MK2-Turntable-With-Custom-Black-Carbon-Covers/173966995977?hash=item28813db209:g:ZVQAAOSwm-BdLiRQ or maybe a good Garrard 301 in heavy plinth. Remember whatever you get you need is isolated and not in front of the speakers or being hit by reflected sound.

Just for you I have just listened to Third World on my system while writing and the bass from the 15" Tannnoys at sensible levels is pretty good, I currently have UB40 - "Present Arms IN DUB" on and this is impressive, I certainly can fell the pumping bass and driving bass drum.

I hope this helps a bit.

That story is amazing Adrian. Im jealous, I often think I missed better days. You paint a mad picture but it doesn't put me off going big, that vibrating gut punching bass sounds boss. Take your point about sound reflecting and needing to shield turntable. Also about going for cheap Equalizer to start with.

Do you recommend a high end EQ that would work with the system being proposed?

Glad your getting out your reggae!

[Barry]

Speakers: most JBLs, Altec Lansings and Tannoys would suit

Amplifier: Solid state, either a 100W Krell, or Quad 520 (a pair of Quad 510 monoblocks would be better, but they are comparatively rare and hard to come by). Valve, a high power Audio Research.

Preamp: obviously something that offers RIAA equalisation for record replay (avoid those that incorporate an equalisation pole at 7950 µs (approximately 20 Hz)), and can output 1V at maximum setting of the volume control.

Turntable: Technics 1210 (obviously! ;)); low 'rumble' is of paramount importance.

Cartridge: something robust - there are many cartridges designed for use by DJs. Something by Ortofon should suit.

[tornpower]

Yes Arthur, I'll go through you questions one by one -

So you have no problem with the Radford valve amp and its bass? It looks killer tbh. - Playing at home through Tannoys or Yamaha NS1000m's the Radford is fine as both are efficient speakers.

The Krell KSA80 looks like the one for me - This one will save you money in the winter as you won't need the heating on in winter.

I cant find the pre amps you suggested, are they vintage? These I had made by World Designs.

Do you disagree with the consensus that the JBL L100s are also good for the job? I have no knowledge of these.

What is your opinion of the Jah Tubby pre amps? - Hmmmm Jah Tubbys (Keith) from East London he makes sound system pre-amps mostly mono 3 or 4 way crossovers......with weight, mid and treble cutouts and parametric eq's

Joe Gibbs and Upsetter labels are my jam. - How can you leave out Bunny Lee productions with King Tubby's version sides? And Channel One and Freedom Sounds, Keith Hudson, Niney, Jammy's, Pablo etc etc.....I'm sure you know about them!


Build a mini sound system, a couple of twin Fane 18 inch bass reflex, some Celestion 12's or 10's on mid and some horn tweeters with some PA amps then run it through an EQ, some parametric, siren effects and an echo/delay unit.....you will be happy!:D

If I had the space (and not the neighbours), I would sell all of my gear and go down that road.....it's the music that matters and reggae is true full range music.......it was always mixed for sound system not Hi-Fi 5 inch in bass units!

Cheers

Sid

Thanks for such in depth response Sid!

Does the Krell KSA80 make a noise as well as produce a lot of heat? Will I have to wait after turning it on to actually play music?

Do you reckon the Jah Tubby preamp is good for me then because it has an EQ? Would you recommend it as a preamp or should I just get a separate EQ - is a preamp really important in terms of sound i.e. can a cheap preamp cheapen the whole operation sonically?

Your listing all the heroes - what about Scientist!? 'Striker' lee was behind so much - was Tubby his engineer or something?. Its the really early dub im trying to track down, still finding my way tbh trawling discogs - dropping crazy cash on good condition 45s, its mad pricey. Think the Japanese market has inflated things or at least that what I was told.

Of course one day I want to build a real soundsystem and will come straight back to your advice. Theres a little island in Scotland that I want to take it to on the Summer Equinox with a real squad of mums old Ladbroke Grove pals, play it loud. I'll drop you a line when it happens ;)

[AJSki2fly]

That story is amazing Adrian. Im jealous, I often think I missed better days. You paint a mad picture but it doesn't put me off going big, that vibrating gut punching bass sounds boss. Take your point about sound reflecting and needing to shield turntable. Also about going for cheap Equalizer to start with.

Do you recommend a high end EQ that would work with the system being proposed?

Glad your getting out your reggae!

I remember there was a very good one in the 70s but I can’t remember it, I will do some investigation and see if I can find it.

I don’t know of any home user ones made nowadays, but I am sure there will be some professional gear for DJing or clubs, although a lot of it is done digitally nowadays.

I have some free time at the moment and see what I can find out. By the way don’t be put off by gear from the 70’s and 80’s some of it was very good and very well built, and to produce the same today would be very costly. Dog put old reviews on the www and you can weddle the good stuff out.

The was into punk as well which seemed to go along with reggae at the time.

Cheers

Adrian


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tornpower]

Really appreciate this Macca, invaluable input.

Great you've seconded the Tannoy DMT15 IIs and will perhaps go for these but you've now really peaked my interest in the 'better' "big JBLs". Could you suggest some models. Maybe I should save some more! Love to see what you are talking about...

Can I ask is the Krell KSA100 better than the KSA80 that was also recommended? Amazing you have a specific preamp that works with the Krell. Not finding the Nelson Pass designed DCB1 anywhere, could you point me in the direction of 'Ollie' please?

I hear you re. the systems. For sure there is some esoteric magic in the handicraft of the big rigs but like you said I want to accurately reflect whats pressed on the vinyl as much as possible.

With that in mind can I ask what is better about the SL1200 GR over the more standard 1210s? Also do I need to buy some kind of weighted table or something to shield it as per lots of peoples suggestion. Is the risk that the record wobbles from the bass?

Do you have a recommendation as to an equaliser - I stand by wanting to fiddle for each tune to get the best sound. Is there a high-end option, can inferior models weaken the overall sound?

Agreed when you say not to skimp on the speakers. Please I would love to hear what the absolute perfect suggestion would be (even some outrageous dreams wouldn't hurt) but particularly the big better JBL models.

THANKS! :)

[tornpower]

+1 for Macca's suggestions, except I'd look for a tidy secondhand SL1200/1210 as opposed to a new deck, that would free up £500 or so to go towards the biggest badass JBLs you can afford, powered by a 70's jap amp (which will have a phono stage built in).

Thanks Pigmy Pony, definitely will look out for second hand. My issue is that as such a noob, I have no idea whether something on Ebay is well maintained or not, it all reads like jargon and I cant necessarily wheedle out the truth from the charlatans.

What are these biggest, baddest JBLs!!? Could you give me model numbers so i can get hunting! Cheers

[Bigman80]

Really appreciate this Macca, invaluable input.

Great you've seconded the Tannoy DMT15 IIs and will perhaps go for these but you've now really peaked my interest in the 'better' "big JBLs". Could you suggest some models. Maybe I should save some more! Love to see what you are talking about...

Can I ask is the Krell KSA100 better than the KSA80 that was also recommended? Amazing you have a specific preamp that works with the Krell. Not finding the Nelson Pass designed DCB1 anywhere, could you point me in the direction of 'Ollie' please?

I hear you re. the systems. For sure there is some esoteric magic in the handicraft of the big rigs but like you said I want to accurately reflect whats pressed on the vinyl as much as possible.

With that in mind can I ask what is better about the SL1200 GR over the more standard 1210s? Also do I need to buy some kind of weighted table or something to shield it as per lots of peoples suggestion. Is the risk that the record wobbles from the bass?

Do you have a recommendation as to an equaliser - I stand by wanting to fiddle for each tune to get the best sound. Is there a high-end option, can inferior models weaken the overall sound?

Agreed when you say not to skimp on the speakers. Please I would love to hear what the absolute perfect suggestion would be (even some outrageous dreams wouldn't hurt) but particularly the big better JBL models.

THANKS! :)I am Ollie lol.

Ksa100 mk 2 is a legendary amp. Macca has my old one and it's an absolute beast. It is huge though.

No waiting to play music, just gets sweeter as it warms up. Luckily, if you want to recreate the Jamaican climate, the Krell will help you do that as it does warm the room nicely. Never an issue here and my room is smaller Than yours.

Big JBLs will be awesome but they start to get very expensive.

[tornpower]

I remember there was a very good one in the 70s but I can’t remember it, I will do some investigation and see if I can find it.

I don’t know of any home user ones made nowadays, but I am sure there will be some professional gear for DJing or clubs, although a lot of it is done digitally nowadays.

I have some free time at the moment and see what I can find out. By the way don’t be put off by gear from the 70’s and 80’s some of it was very good and very well built, and to produce the same today would be very costly. Dog put old reviews on the www and you can weddle the good stuff out.

The was into punk as well which seemed to go along with reggae at the time.

Cheers

Adrian


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you could find that 70s EQ it sounds really exciting - thank you Adrian. Cant tell you how grateful I am to all you guys. So generous with all your expertise. This should be costing me bucks!

In humble praise,

Arthur

back in school with the kinds tomorrow.... eek: rolleyes:

[Bigman80]

JBL DD55000

Yup, sizeable. Hahaha.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190915/654ad0e43ba24d067597cd6924b4172b.jpg

[tornpower]

I am Ollie lol.

Ksa100 mk 2 is a legendary amp. Macca has my old one and it's an absolute beast. It is huge though.

No waiting to play music, just gets sweeter as it warms up. Luckily, if you want to recreate the Jamaican climate, the Krell will help you do that as it does warm the room nicely. Never an issue here and my room is smaller Than yours.

Big JBLs will be awesome but they start to get very expensive.

Ah! Hi Ollie :doh:

lmao sounds great, ill be needing the heat in these coming winter months. Got to get more pennies saved.

However is the jump to the big JBLs considerable - money wise? Any chance you had a link to one I could see?

If they are out of my reach. Would you back the Tannoy Ardens ot Tannoy DMT15 IIs? If the smaller JBL L100 or their ilk are deemed not to have enough bass capacity.

Also could I commission a "Nelson Pass designed DCB1 pre amp" from you? and could you tell me rough cost?

Whats your opinion on vintage EQs?

cheers

[Bigman80]

Ah! Hi Ollie :doh:

lmao sounds great, ill be needing the heat in these coming winter months. Got to get more pennies saved.

However is the jump to the big JBLs considerable - money wise? Any chance you had a link to one I could see?

If they are out of my reach. Would you back the Tannoy Ardens ot Tannoy DMT15 IIs? If the smaller JBL L100 or their ilk are deemed not to have enough bass capacity.

Also could I commission a "Nelson Pass designed DCB1 pre amp" from you? and could you tell me rough cost?

Whats your opinion on vintage EQs?

cheersHi Arthur lol

I've personally never heard a set of tannoys!

What has held me back is my belief that they can't do what I like. It's not a criticism but I like bass to be heavy weight. Deep and powerful but also very detailed.

The Tannot design, of having a tweeter inside the cone does have a lot of fans but how can that design pump out the quality of bass I like when everything comes out of the same cone? I just don't think they can but I could be wrong. I'm no speaker expert. Macca is the man for that stuff.

Like I say, I haven't heard a pair and as for my speakers, they probably aren't as good as the stuff we're looking at here on the JBL front, but they do go low.

Big JBLs are mega bucks and the small ones won't have the bass. Transparent and clean, but not the bass.

As for a DCB1, sure, but there are a lot of options and each option has costs so drop me a PM and we can have a chat about it.

Vintage EQ, not something I'd want but I did hear you mention your need to tweak due to recordings.

Actually, all of your requirements have me questioning why I haven't recommended an I tegrated amplifier like the SANSUI 919.

that would have pre and power all build in. Bags of Watts and a good phonostage built in.

Ignore all the amp talk, get some good speakers and a SANSUI amplifier lol

[Bigman80]

Here we go:

SANSUI 919.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 293036932749

Dont buy this one, Phonomac will probably go bonkers that the guy has messed with it. (resident Technics, Audio Technica and sansui expert)

Just to give you an idea.

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Arthur lol

I've personally never heard a set of tannoys!

What has held me back is my belief that they can't do what I like. It's not a criticism but I like bass to be heavy weight. Deep and powerful but also very detailed.

The Tannot design, of having a tweeter inside the cone does have a lot of fans but how can that design pump out the quality of bass I like when everything comes out of the same cone? I just don't think they can but I could be wrong. I'm no speaker expert. Macca is the man for that stuff.

Like I say, I haven't heard a pair and as for my speakers, they probably aren't as good as the stuff we're looking at here on the JBL front, but they do go low.

Big JBLs are mega bucks and the small ones won't have the bass. Transparent and clean, but not the bass.

As for a DCB1, sure, but there are a lot of options and each option has costs so drop me a PM and we can have a chat about it.

Vintage EQ, not something I'd want but I did hear you mention your need to tweak due to recordings.

Actually, all of your requirements have me questioning why I haven't recommended an I tegrated amplifier like the SANSUI 919.

that would have pre and power all build in. Bags of Watts and a good phonostage built in.

Ignore all the amp talk, get some good speakers and a SANSUI amplifier lol

Good suggestion the Samsung I heard one of these and they certainly have a big punch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bigman80]

Good suggestion the Samsung I heard one of these and they certainly have a big punch.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI just think that rather than trying to make a system to fit the budget, make the system fit the needs and he doesn't need a Krell ATM or anything that huge just yet. Also, that budget starts to look a bit light when you start looking at a power amp for nearly £2k

Techie 1210: £400

New cart like the AT95: £100

Sansui amp: £1500 maximum

That leaves £2k for speakers

That would be a superb system, more than capable of putting a smile on Arthur's face.

Also, the Sansui is upgradeable if you speak to Angus nicely. It's still one of the BEST solid state amps I've heard.

[AJSki2fly]

I just think that rather than trying to make a system to fit the budget, make the system fit the needs and he doesn't need a Krell ATM or anything that huge just yet. Also, that budget starts to look a bit light when you start looking at a power amp for nearly £2k

Techie 1210: £400

New cart like the AT95: £100

Sansui amp: £1500 maximum

That leaves £2k for speakers

That would be a superb system, more than capable of putting a smile on Arthur's face.

Also, the Sansui is upgradeable if you speak to Angus nicely. It's still one of the BEST solid state amps I've heard.

I completely agree, as I said earlier the budget was looking tight. A good pair of Tannoys, or larger JBLs might fit the bill. Didn’t someone have a pair of Ardens for sale on here recently?

[Edward]

A friend has Krell monos (FPB250m) driving a pair of XTZ Alpha Divines. He often plays Reggae and other bass heavy stuff - at high SPLs. Feels like your insides are being rearranged. :lol:

I have 15 inch Tannoys driven by a Radford. Nice solid/tight bass but not like the big JBLs mentioned in this thread. Pity you are not round the corner Arthur as you are most welcome for a listen. No black circles here though. ;)

[shahsy]

I'll try and respond in line in bold......

Does the Krell KSA80 make a noise as well as produce a lot of heat? Will I have to wait after turning it on to actually play music? There is a 5 second gap after you switch it on.....it can run down to 1 ohm and throw out 640W so you could string up a a bunch of 8 ohm speakers in series and it won't blush!

Do you reckon the Jah Tubby preamp is good for me then because it has an EQ? Would you recommend it as a preamp or should I just get a separate EQ - is a preamp really important in terms of sound i.e. can a cheap preamp cheapen the whole operation sonically?

Jah Tubbys pre-amps are built for sound system use...he's been making them for years for other sound systems. As I said, for sound system use as opposed to hi-fidelity, he's tuned them for playing out. http://www.jahtubbys.co.uk/equipment.html


Your listing all the heroes - what about Scientist!? Yes, he was an engineer at Tubby's Studio and I'm a big fan of his inventive mixes. Also Prince Jammy's and Philip Smart......all Tubby's engineers

'Striker' lee was behind so much - was Tubby his engineer or something?. Striker used Tubby's studio to add vocals/DJ and to mix down dubs. Yabby You, Glen Brown, Augustus Pablo and numerous others also used Tubbs studio for the same.

Its the really early dub im trying to track down, still finding my way tbh trawling discogs - dropping crazy cash on good condition 45s, its mad pricey. Think the Japanese market has inflated things or at least that what I was told.
The price of original press yard tunes has always been going up. The Japanese got heavily in to ska and rocksteady in the nineties. Nowadays, our European cousins are piling in to the roots tunes from the 70's.

A bit off topic but..........When you say early dub, what style/type of tune are you talking about? Early dub for me would LP's like Blackboard Jungle, Pick a Dub, Aquarius dub. Before that it would be version.....

There are lots of represses around with variable sound quality as well as legitimacy! Give my mate Lol a call at Dub Vendor and he'll fix you up with tunes......:) Tell him I sent you....https://www.dubvendor.co.uk/

Peace

Sid

[Mr.Ian]

Having given this some more thought I think you could end up spending some serious cash and still not get the sound you seek.

You want to get the best from your 45s but a higher end turntable, once an arm and catridge is added could easily eat up all your budget. The amps pre/power second hand another £1500. Then most of the speakers mentioned are getting on for £1k secondhand good condition.

I think I would be looking to buy a used turntable and arm in the £300/350 region, Technics/Rega/Project/Michell something that plays 45 and is easy to set up, in case you want to move it to the barn. See how this sounds with your current gear, what you like what you dont. Should be easy enough to sell on if you want to upgrade

Then I would make a trip to one of both of the upcoming this month/next hifi shows and take some music with you, single, cd, usb and try and see what the different systems sound like. Try some valve, sold state and class d amps. Try some large speakers, small speakers and some horns. try to get a feel for the sound you like and the type of amp/speaker etc used

Once you have an idea of the sound you are aiming for play around with the speakers, buy second hand try and sell on till you find some you like.

Some good speaker recomendations above plus maybe pioneer hpm100 or impulse h2 if horns work for you, bass might not there strongest point but they do fill the room with sound in a way that many other speakers do not

amp wise I would be going hypex class d based myself or old school 1976-79 grunge, big silver amps or tuner/amps with lots of knobs. Pioneer, Sansui, Technics. look for 100w per channel rms. These wont be cheap. Easy to service but check the light bulbs work these can be troublesome to source.

EQ - buy a used Klark Teknik DN360 and put it in the tape loop.

Once you have the basic sound you want - if needs be get a better turntable/arm/cartridge. But remember hifi cartridges wont stand the abuse a dj biased cartridge will

[Roy S]

My Ardens did reggae very well (Luxman amp)

[AJSki2fly]

Arthur,

Here you go this is what you want to find https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/technics/sh-8075.shtml there are several around but most abroad seem to be about £400-500 they made other models.

Also reggae and dub sound extremely good on my Tannoy Legacy Ardens, I am still getting used to then as only had them a week.

[Macca]

Really appreciate this Macca, invaluable input.

Great you've seconded the Tannoy DMT15 IIs and will perhaps go for these but you've now really peaked my interest in the 'better' "big JBLs". Could you suggest some models. Maybe I should save some more! Love to see what you are talking about...

Can I ask is the Krell KSA100 better than the KSA80 that was also recommended? Amazing you have a specific preamp that works with the Krell. Not finding the Nelson Pass designed DCB1 anywhere, could you point me in the direction of 'Ollie' please?

I hear you re. the systems. For sure there is some esoteric magic in the handicraft of the big rigs but like you said I want to accurately reflect whats pressed on the vinyl as much as possible.

With that in mind can I ask what is better about the SL1200 GR over the more standard 1210s? Also do I need to buy some kind of weighted table or something to shield it as per lots of peoples suggestion. Is the risk that the record wobbles from the bass?

Do you have a recommendation as to an equaliser - I stand by wanting to fiddle for each tune to get the best sound. Is there a high-end option, can inferior models weaken the overall sound?

Agreed when you say not to skimp on the speakers. Please I would love to hear what the absolute perfect suggestion would be (even some outrageous dreams wouldn't hurt) but particularly the big better JBL models.

THANKS! :)

JBLs - take a look at the 4367 or if you feel really spendy the 4365. Either one is better than 99% of speakers out there and will do exactly what you want. You can get older JBLs that are similar but because they have a cult following they are often more expensive than the new ones. And hard to find in the UK. JBL 4365: https://thevinylfactory.com/features/home-grown-jbl-4365-studio-monitors-kuzma-stabi-reference-turntable/ and 4367 review here: https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/floor-standing/jbl-4367-studio-monitor-loudspeaker-review/

Krells - I have the KSA100Mk2 and the KSA50s, either would do the job. I've never heard the KSA80 so can't advise you there. You probably don't need such a monumental power amp, although it wouldn't hurt.

Technics - SL1200GR is better than the old SL1200 I think because it has a better arm and the new price is a steal for the level of engineering on offer. I would not recommend a Rega or any belt drive turntable. Most belt drive turntables do not rotate consistently at the correct speed and this will affect the bass slam and timing - on a lot of music you might not notice, on dub and reggae you will. Provided you have a solid floor (not planks on beams) any sturdy, level table will do to site the deck, just keep it as far away as possible from the speakers.

You don't need EQ but if you want it no-one does old school EQ better than Klark Teknik https://www.thomann.de/gb/klark_teknik.html - expensive though. I'd leave that for now as I think when you have the whole thing set up you'll realise there's no need. If you must have it and don't want to lay out that kind of cash you can pick up an equalizer from Technics et al on ebay for about a ton. Yes it will degrade the sound a little, maybe not enough that you'll notice. You can always get a Klark further down the line.

[tornpower]

This has been some journey people.

Oli - Only just saw that picture of the JBL DD55000. Literally lmao. One day! Look like its 10k each one on Ebay. Its not out of the question but will take me a long time - or maybe teachers will finally get bankers wages. Never know...

This is a distillation of everyones input that has been sincerely appreciated. Ive said it before but it really makes you believe in humanity all this outpouring of wisdom to an ignorant stranger asking for help.

Amp: it doesn't sound like (unless I stump up 20k for the DD55000s - which is to some extent the dream but not possible) I need the power of the Krell KSA100 and I should actually, given my budgetary constrictions go for the Sansui AU-919 amplifier. This feels like a good fix and its nice to see some consensus here. I like the look of it and have faith in Bigman80 (Oli's) advice - particularly given that he is literally doing himself out of work. Appreciate it bud.

Oli I know you said that your friend would be potentially be appalled at the refurbishment is this one going to be spoilt too? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sansui-AU-919-Vollverstarker-amplifier-fully-serviced-recapped-mint/264212255659?hash=item3d844713ab:g:Bt8AAOSwFalccrr v

Speakers: Right now it is the Tannoy 15 DMT II, Tannoy Arden or the JBL 4367 or 4365s. I know that the last two are significantly out of my budget but Ive got a good mind to listen to Macca and just start saving. If anyone knows a reputable person who has any of these for sale please let me know. Even if its in six months!!!

Equalizer: Here what Macca is saying about suddenly seeing what it should have sounded like all along and not needing to f with the levels but I still feel like it might need it so am keen to hear his and Mr. Ian's advice and get Klarke Technik. Adrian is this same company your talking about? Is this Technics SH-8075 better?

Oli what does this mean? New cart like the AT95: £100? Is this the Cartridge for the TT that people keep referring to?

Turntable: I am inclined to listen to Macca again on this one and stump up for the SL1200GR. I know this will hurt my budget but somehow I think this whole thing deserves another year saving...

That said if anyone hears of those models of speakers around for a good price and in good shape I will find the money immediately! ;)

Just a general question if I end up going for the more expensive JBLs - say the 4365 - should I have stumped for the beefy Krell in the first place or is the Sansui still going to work?

Shahsy - lets continue this chat in private. You seem to know a tonne more than me and I look forward to sharing some killer cuts. Unless anyone wants to here us clash!?

Spent the afternoon teaching Reception PE. A world away from this forum although I've been waiting all day to get back here. Thank you all so much!!

Last question: Do I need gold plated speaker cables or something - someone told me that once!

:)

[Bigman80]

This has been some journey people.

Oli - Only just saw that picture of the JBL DD55000. Literally lmao. One day! Look like its 10k each one on Ebay. Its not out of the question but will take me a long time - or maybe teachers will finally get bankers wages. Never know...

Just showing you how ridiculous this lark can be lol

This is a distillation of everyones input that has been sincerely appreciated. Ive said it before but it really makes you believe in humanity all this outpouring of wisdom to an ignorant stranger asking for help.

Amp: it doesn't sound like (unless I stump up 20k for the DD55000s - which is to some extent the dream but not possible) I need the power of the Krell KSA100 and I should actually, given my budgetary constrictions go for the Sansui AU-919 amplifier. This feels like a good fix and its nice to see some consensus here. I like the look of it and have faith in Bigman80 (Oli's) advice - particularly given that he is literally doing himself out of work. Appreciate it bud.

There's no point going mental at the minute when HiEnd can be done in one box. This isnt always the case but my opinion is that for a first proper setup, an amplifier like the 919 would be perfect for you to use and keep your budget free for arguably the most important bit......the speakers!

Oli I know you said that your friend would be potentially be appalled at the refurbishment is this one going to be spoilt too? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sansui-AU-919-Vollverstarker-amplifier-fully-serviced-recapped-mint/264212255659?hash=item3d844713ab:g:Bt8AAOSwFalccrr v

Beautiful but over priced IMO. Send Phonomac a PM and ask if he has a Sansui for sale. Last time i was at his place, he had more than 5 Sansui amps stashed away lol. Robbie Gong (member here) Has bought amps via Angus (Phonomac) before and will happily suggest a good model to look out for too.

Speakers: Right now it is the Tannoy 15 DMT II, Tannoy Arden or the JBL 4367 or 4365s. I know that the last two are significantly out of my budget but Ive got a good mind to listen to Macca and just start saving. If anyone knows a reputable person who has any of these for sale please let me know. Even if its in six months!!!

Equalizer: Here what Macca is saying about suddenly seeing what it should have sounded like all along and not needing to f with the levels but I still feel like it might need it so am keen to hear his and Mr. Ian's advice and get Klarke Technik. Adrian is this same company your talking about? Is this Technics SH-8075 better?

You wont need this with a Sansui, it has tone controls so you can exert some fine tuning with them. More budget saved.

Oli what does this mean? New cart like the AT95: £100? Is this the Cartridge for the TT that people keep referring to?

Yes, an absolute rock solid performer for a ridiculously low price. I had one for a long time and there was nothing it didn't do well. Obviously, there's better but get one of these to start with for your new 1210 TT

Turntable: I am inclined to listen to Macca again on this one and stump up for the SL1200GR. I know this will hurt my budget but somehow I think this whole thing deserves another year saving...

Yes, it's great value BUT there was a 1210 Mk2 for sale recently with Origin Live tonearm for sale at £400 recently. You aren't gonna go wrong with it. I'd wait to see if a used one comes available if you must have one of the GR's.

That said if anyone hears of those models of speakers around for a good price and in good shape I will find the money immediately! ;)

Just a general question if I end up going for the more expensive JBLs - say the 4365 - should I have stumped for the beefy Krell in the first place or is the Sansui still going to work?

I have heard it said on multiple occasions that Tannoys are not fantastic with Solid state amplifiers like the Sansui BUT i haven't heard it so couldn't be 100% sure about it. Again, Macca or Walpurgis are the JBL & Tannoy speaker guru's.

Shahsy - lets continue this chat in private. You seem to know a tonne more than me and I look forward to sharing some killer cuts. Unless anyone wants to here us clash!?

Spent the afternoon teaching Reception PE. A world away from this forum although I've been waiting all day to get back here. Thank you all so much!!

Last question: Do I need gold plated speaker cables or something - someone told me that once!

I'll hook you up for cables when you're ready. Don't spend silly money. No point spending £4k on a system and putting bell wire on the speakers but you don't need high priced nonsense either. !! I have a few cables that we can discuss. No rush.


:)

[tornpower]

This has been some journey people.

Oli - Only just saw that picture of the JBL DD55000. Literally lmao. One day! Look like its 10k each one on Ebay. Its not out of the question but will take me a long time - or maybe teachers will finally get bankers wages. Never know...

Just showing you how ridiculous this lark can be lol

This is a distillation of everyones input that has been sincerely appreciated. Ive said it before but it really makes you believe in humanity all this outpouring of wisdom to an ignorant stranger asking for help.

Amp: it doesn't sound like (unless I stump up 20k for the DD55000s - which is to some extent the dream but not possible) I need the power of the Krell KSA100 and I should actually, given my budgetary constrictions go for the Sansui AU-919 amplifier. This feels like a good fix and its nice to see some consensus here. I like the look of it and have faith in Bigman80 (Oli's) advice - particularly given that he is literally doing himself out of work. Appreciate it bud.

There's no point going mental at the minute when HiEnd can be done in one box. This isnt always the case but my opinion is that for a first proper setup, an amplifier like the 919 would be perfect for you to use and keep your budget free for arguably the most important bit......the speakers!

Oli I know you said that your friend would be potentially be appalled at the refurbishment is this one going to be spoilt too? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sansui-AU-919-Vollverstarker-amplifier-fully-serviced-recapped-mint/264212255659?hash=item3d844713ab:g:Bt8AAOSwFalccrr v

Beautiful but over priced IMO. Send Phonomac a PM and ask if he has a Sansui for sale. Last time i was at his place, he had more than 5 Sansui amps stashed away lol. Robbie Gong (member here) Has bought amps via Angus (Phonomac) before and will happily suggest a good model to look out for too.

Speakers: Right now it is the Tannoy 15 DMT II, Tannoy Arden or the JBL 4367 or 4365s. I know that the last two are significantly out of my budget but Ive got a good mind to listen to Macca and just start saving. If anyone knows a reputable person who has any of these for sale please let me know. Even if its in six months!!!

Equalizer: Here what Macca is saying about suddenly seeing what it should have sounded like all along and not needing to f with the levels but I still feel like it might need it so am keen to hear his and Mr. Ian's advice and get Klarke Technik. Adrian is this same company your talking about? Is this Technics SH-8075 better?

You wont need this with a Sansui, it has tone controls so you can exert some fine tuning with them. More budget saved.

Oli what does this mean? New cart like the AT95: £100? Is this the Cartridge for the TT that people keep referring to?

Yes, an absolute rock solid performer for a ridiculously low price. I had one for a long time and there was nothing it didn't do well. Obviously, there's better but get one of these to start with for your new 1210 TT

Turntable: I am inclined to listen to Macca again on this one and stump up for the SL1200GR. I know this will hurt my budget but somehow I think this whole thing deserves another year saving...

Yes, it's great value BUT there was a 1210 Mk2 for sale recently with Origin Live tonearm for sale at £400 recently. You aren't gonna go wrong with it. I'd wait to see if a used one comes available if you must have one of the GR's.

That said if anyone hears of those models of speakers around for a good price and in good shape I will find the money immediately! ;)

Just a general question if I end up going for the more expensive JBLs - say the 4365 - should I have stumped for the beefy Krell in the first place or is the Sansui still going to work?

I have heard it said on multiple occasions that Tannoys are not fantastic with Solid state amplifiers like the Sansui BUT i haven't heard it so couldn't be 100% sure about it. Again, Macca or Walpurgis are the JBL & Tannoy speaker guru's.

Shahsy - lets continue this chat in private. You seem to know a tonne more than me and I look forward to sharing some killer cuts. Unless anyone wants to here us clash!?

Spent the afternoon teaching Reception PE. A world away from this forum although I've been waiting all day to get back here. Thank you all so much!!

Last question: Do I need gold plated speaker cables or something - someone told me that once!

I'll hook you up for cables when you're ready. Don't spend silly money. No point spending £4k on a system and putting bell wire on the speakers but you don't need high priced nonsense either. !! I have a few cables that we can discuss. No rush.


:)

Cheers Oli. Take your point re. the savings with the Sansui AU-919 and great that I don't need right now to fork out for an EQ as well. Also fair point about the second hand Technics 1210s. I will keep my eyes peeled for more of these and a second hand SL1200GR potentially.

However, all this said you now have me worried about the Sansui potentially not working well with the Tannoys if I end up with either the DMT 15 II or Arden - which are both more within my price range. Any chance Macca you're still listening and could advise? Does this Sansui amp have issues with Tannoys because it is solid state? Also if I keep a search out for those two 4367 JBLs you mentioned do you think I might be able to find decent second hand ones for around 3k or is this optimistic (the 4365 being sadly too expensive right now)? Will they sound significantly better than the DMTs or Arden?

Thanks for the cables hookup I will let you know when this starts moving. Very excited now and just want to be absolutely clear this speaker amp combo is good news. Then I can buckle down look for deals and get saving!! I will message Phonomac now and hope he doesn't tell me to get lost.

As ever your a true gent for all your help.

:)

[AJSki2fly]

Arthur, I would agree with Oli he’s covered it all off well. If you go for the Sansui 919 forget the graphic equaliser for now. I have heard JBLs through a good Marantz amp some years ago and they worked well. I would have thought Tannoys would be fine as well as long as the amp can produce a good signal, in fact as I understand it a valve amp has less damping capability so can end up with woolly bass,

Cheers Adrian


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Macca]

However, all this said you now have me worried about the Sansui potentially not working well with the Tannoys if I end up with either the DMT 15 II or Arden - which are both more within my price range. Any chance Macca you're still listening and could advise? Does this Sansui amp have issues with Tannoys because it is solid state? Also if I keep a search out for those two 4367 JBLs you mentioned do you think I might be able to find decent second hand ones for around 3k or is this optimistic (the 4365 being sadly too expensive right now)? Will they sound significantly better than the DMTs or Arden?



Good amps are good amps and bad amps are bad amps, doesn't matter if it is valve or solid state. A fully restored 909 would work fine with either Tannoys or JBLs.

Difference between the Tannoys and JBLs is really one of personal preference. They are not exactly alike but either will suit your needs. The big ones make most other speakers - even big 3 way floorstanders like what I'm using right now - sound like toys. I'd try and get a listen to examples of both if you can but neither will disappoint.

The trouble with trying to get some big JBL second hand is that people tend to get them and never sell them. They do come up occasionally so worth looking out but I wouldn't rely on it. £3k for some 4367 is optimistic I think. Sorry dude.

[AJSki2fly]

As Martin says big JBL’s are hard to come by. Try and hear a pair of Tannoy Ardens, I think they might suit you, you can always come hear mine, but its bit of a hike.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tornpower]

Good amps are good amps and bad amps are bad amps, doesn't matter if it is valve or solid state. A fully restored 909 would work fine with either Tannoys or JBLs.

Difference between the Tannoys and JBLs is really one of personal preference. They are not exactly alike but either will suit your needs. The big ones make most other speakers - even big 3 way floorstanders like what I'm using right now - sound like toys. I'd try and get a listen to examples of both if you can but neither will disappoint.

The trouble with trying to get some big JBL second hand is that people tend to get them and never sell them. They do come up occasionally so worth looking out but I wouldn't rely on it. £3k for some 4367 is optimistic I think. Sorry dude.

Points taken, I will try and go find some of each to listen to while I am hustling the pennies. Alright then, I think I am set. You are all generous people and have helped me out in a time of need. Any of you come across a deal of any of the bits discussed drop me a line.

Im buzzing to be blown away. Maybe when Ive got what we've discussed and played it for a few years Ill be itching to upgrade and will come knocking again. Once this is all set up - you're all welcome to come and have a dance up in Scotland in my barn! Will post photos here when its going.

Cheers lads :)

[Macca]

I was looking for some big JBL years with no joy, that's why I ended up going for Tannoy Ardens. (If they ever get finished). They do the same sort of job just in a slightly different way.

[Macca]

. Once this is all set up - you're all welcome to come and have a dance up in Scotland in my barn! Will post photos here when its going.
)

lol You do realise we've got about half of Scotland on this site? Make sure you get plenty of Buckie in!

[tornpower]

lol You do realise we've got about half of Scotland on this site? Make sure you get plenty of Buckie in!

Lol the weegie Neds'll hopefully hear my system from Glasgow and come packing Buckie and Tenants... So neigh both'r

[tornpower]

I was looking for some big JBL years with no joy, that's why I ended up going for Tannoy Ardens. (If they ever get finished). They do the same sort of job just in a slightly different way.

Are you saying that you bought new Tannoy Ardens and they are still being made!? Is that what seems to be called legacy? Is legacy legit?
Are these no good: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-Arden-Loudspeakers/123906451134?hash=item1cd96666be:g:qwcAAOSwkZpdYQ4 c ?

Also what do you make of these: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?65867-I-m-just-a-primary-school-teacher-and-I-need-help-(/page5 ?

If it I buy vintage and they need refurb what kind of cost am I looking at?

Cheers Macca!

[AJSki2fly]

The Ardens look as if they have been refurbished and driver sorted by lockwoods. You need to go and hear them and check them out, I believe around £2k-£2.5 is about right for a good pair.

[Edward]

Arthur, the Legacy series is a newly released Tannoy series (from about 3 years ago) based on the speakers from about the the 1960s / 1970s.

[Macca]

Are you saying that you bought new Tannoy Ardens and they are still being made!? Is that what seems to be called legacy? Is legacy legit?
!

I bought the drivers and crossovers and am getting the cabinets made. Cheapest way to do it. I'm not an expert on Tannoys by any means but there are some members who are so maybe they'll chip in.

I think the Legacy Arden - which confusingly is the modern version despite the name, uses the same driver as the DMT15. I think the older Ardens have a different driver and slightly different cabinet design. But don't quote me on any of that. I suspect the differences are not enormous anyway.

[shahsy]

Hi Arthur,
Stumbled across this on YouTube.......

DBC (Ranking Miss P at the controls) were using Garrard 301's back in the early 80's. I know Jah Shaka still uses a Garrard 4HF when he plays out.

Check the pic on the video.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LsJFEyDvtY

[tornpower]

Cheers again Macca.

Sid thats cool. She did the station with Lepke and for a while they had the transmitter in my mums attic. Does the TT make a big difference? as in would this Garrard 4HF - which looks great - play better sound than the 1210s or a SL-1200GR?

Thanks!

[tornpower]

Thank you Adrian and Ian for the info. Im going to take it slow and wait till I am really sure and definitely want to track down a listening experience first. Might keeping posting finds on here for advice. Hope the thread doesn't run cold!

Appreciate everyones thinking on my behalf. I feel like a little fish swimming in shark tank but the sharks are friendly :scratch:

[graham67]

The original Arden used the HPD385A which used an alnico magnet.
The arden 2 used the 3828 driver.
Another good tannoy vintage driver for your type of music is the professional SRM series.
This is a good source of info.
https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy15.htm
https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy40.htm
https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy29.htm

https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy122.htm

[RMutt]

Every time I see the title ‘ I’m only a primary school teacher etc. ‘ I think, there is self effacing and there is putting yourself down. I understand that the implication is ‘ therefor I’m not an electronics expert’ but I still think you should be more confident and proud of what you do. It’s a difficult job, that many of us would struggle with, dealing with our future.

[RMutt]

PS It is also looks like the beginning of a limerick. Something like this........ I’m only a primary school teacher, who’s sound system is short of a speaker, the dub is lob sided, its sound is derided , crikey, pass me that reefer!

[AJSki2fly]

Are you saying that you bought new Tannoy Ardens and they are still being made!? Is that what seems to be called legacy? Is legacy legit?
Are these no good: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-Arden-Loudspeakers/123906451134?hash=item1cd96666be:g:qwcAAOSwkZpdYQ4 c ?

Also what do you make of these: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?65867-I-m-just-a-primary-school-teacher-and-I-need-help-(/page5 ?

If it I buy vintage and they need refurb what kind of cost am I looking at?

Cheers Macca!

Arthur,

I just discovered something. A friend popped in for lunch today on his way to Cornwall, and he wanted to ave a look and listed to my speakers so I took the covers off, and for the first time I removed the bottom covers over the ports only to find they still had the damping foams in.:doh::doh::doh: Having found that out I have to say even with them in that they were already producing reasonable amounts of bass.

So with foams removed and just for you I have popped on Third World ‎– Journey To Addis, "One Cold Vibe{Couldn't Stop Dis Ya Boogie)" and "Cold Sweat", UB40 - Present Arms In Dub, "I Don't Walk On the Grass" 12" 45rpm single, and I have to say they are producing some serious amounts of bass, completely in control and sounding great, band in the room moment, you really feel it!:dance:

So in my estimation for what it is worth I think you are pretty unlikely to be disappointed with a pair of Arden's.

PS Take a sack trolley along with you if you go to buy a pair.

[Patrick Dixon]

I do believe that you have probably spent around 10K of the poor guy's 4K budget!

[Macca]

I do believe that you have probably spent around 10K of the poor guy's 4K budget!

Of course. It's the hi-fi forum version of 'Look what you could have won.'

[shahsy]

When the DMT15's were made they used the same driver (3833) as the Westminster which was their top speaker.

s

[tornpower]

PS It is also looks like the beginning of a limerick. Something like this........ I’m only a primary school teacher, who’s sound system is short of a speaker, the dub is lob sided, its sound is derided , crikey, pass me that reefer!

This is classic Rmutt. Although as it happens, I'm short of everything at the moment! Also I am increadibly proud of the job I am doing - just conscious of my ignorance when it comes to how to play music best. Appreciate the kind words though :)

[tornpower]

Arthur,

I just discovered something. A friend popped in for lunch today on his way to Cornwall, and he wanted to ave a look and listed to my speakers so I took the covers off, and for the first time I removed the bottom covers over the ports only to find they still had the damping foams in.:doh::doh::doh: Having found that out I have to say even with them in that they were already producing reasonable amounts of bass.

So with foams removed and just for you I have popped on Third World ‎– Journey To Addis, "One Cold Vibe{Couldn't Stop Dis Ya Boogie)" and "Cold Sweat", UB40 - Present Arms In Dub, "I Don't Walk On the Grass" 12" 45rpm single, and I have to say they are producing some serious amounts of bass, completely in control and sounding great, band in the room moment, you really feel it!:dance:

So in my estimation for what it is worth I think you are pretty unlikely to be disappointed with a pair of Arden's.

PS Take a sack trolley along with you if you go to buy a pair.

Amazing Adrian - your getting me pumped to hear them. To be honest as soon as a good looking pair of either the DMTs or Ardens come up and jumping for them. Is Ebay the best place to keep a look out or are there better people/places?

Cheers

[tornpower]

The original Arden used the HPD385A which used an alnico magnet.
The arden 2 used the 3828 driver.
Another good tannoy vintage driver for your type of music is the professional SRM series.
This is a good source of info.
https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy15.htm
https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy40.htm
https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy29.htm

https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy122.htm

Hi graham, thanks for this info. Its a little technical for me to digest. In your opinion and given that I want to listen to reggae which Tannoy would be the absolute best buy for me?

Thanks

[tornpower]

Of course. It's the hi-fi forum version of 'Look what you could have won.'

Im very happy to be inspired to save to be honest. Certainly I am going to be over my original estimate. But I am also enjoying setting my sights higher for the next project. After all this effort and dreaming I am enjoying salivating over things I may never own. :stalks:

[tornpower]

When the DMT15's were made they used the same driver (3833) as the Westminster which was their top speaker.

s

Thanks for this Sid. Still just waiting on a decent pair to turn up....

[tornpower]

As ever I am very grateful for all of your help. It looks like I am sorting the amp out at the moment. Which just leaves the deck and speakers.

In the mean time I had a couple of questions:

1. This amp will ideally go with Tannoy Ardens or DMT15 IIs. As mentioned I am trying to source a reasonably priced pair of either (if anyone ever hears of ones please let me know). Before this amp was proposed by the community here the consensus was on me getting hold of a Krell KSA100 poweramp. As mentioned before I intend to also build a big sound system for a barn so I can really blast my dub and have a dance. My question is two fold...

1. Can I use the Tannoys along with other speakers and rig them all together to make a monster system or are the Tannoys simply audiophile things and wouldnt work in a barn? Are the big JBLs proposed by Macca (like 10k ones) gonna be better than any big PA system I can string together... I guess my question is for a big barn what is the ultimate dream rig? Do Sound Systems in the Jamaican sense of the word have to built with a single vision in mind?

2. Will I at that point need the Krell or would the Sansui still do the job?

Really friendly steer from Lawrence revealed a cheap deal on some JBLs just down the road from me. I picked these three up for £204. The big speaker has a broken cone. Assuming they work - have no idea - can I just keep buying big speakers like this and daisy chain them together for a big 'Sound System' or does it not work like this, and would I do better simply to save 10k....

Cheers,

Arthur

267572675826760

[AJSki2fly]

Hi Arthur,

I think you need to have a read about resistance and ohms, I cannot at the moment remember it myself, but I think if you put two 4 ohm speakers in the resulting load is 8ohms, if you put then in series see https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-speakers-in-parallel/

So if the Krell can handle up to 16 ohms then you can arrange your speakers up to this load, beyond that and you will overload the amp. I am not sure if there are other issues?

I am sure others can advise.

At the end of the day, if an amp can drive the speakers and if it is good and does not distort when under its specified load then it should sound good.

Cheers

Adrian

[walpurgis]

The Tannoy DMT15 II has higher power handling and sensitivity than the Ardens, so would be better suited to high sound output levels and at 98db sensitivity will go very loud!! Probably more than enough for a barn. I wouldn't mix speaker types and paralleling 8 ohm speakers by using two pairs will give a nominal 4 ohm load and it may be unwise to go below that.

Rather than use a Krell KSA 100, I'd save money and get a big Quad amp like a 909 or QSP, which have bags of power and sound just fine at high outputs, they have output protection too. The Krell may not be too happy delivering sustained high levels the Quads are likely to be more robust. The Quads sound very good with Tannoys.

[Pharos]

Generally it is not a good idea to wire speakers in series because they are reactive and produce irregularities in behaviour affecting each other, and also the damping factor is ruined. But the current drawn reduces so that the possibility of amplifier damage is reduced.

Putting them in parallel is better by far, but this reduces the impedance to half the nominal value and places stress on an amplifier's ability to deliver current without damaging itself.

It is more likely that a SS amp will tolerate these higher demands, but bear in mind that some speakers have serious dips in their impedance and this also further stresses an amplifier.

I used to run Tannoy Gold 15" Lancasters with a Nelson Jones 10+10W amp which gave me 103dB, and was loud, and I would guess that your proposed speakers will be of a similar sensitivity, and so a 20 to 50W amp would do for domestic use.

In the barn is another matter, large rooms need filling, and much more so when there are lots of people because they soak up sound. When I put the above setup on the patio in the garden it was lost, especially at the bass end.

[AJSki2fly]

Arthur, not sure how you are getting along, but thought this might be one for you depending on finances https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?66132-Krell-ksa100&highlight=krell

[tornpower]

Hi Arthur,

I think you need to have a read about resistance and ohms, I cannot at the moment remember it myself, but I think if you put two 4 ohm speakers in the resulting load is 8ohms, if you put then in series see https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-speakers-in-parallel/

So if the Krell can handle up to 16 ohms then you can arrange your speakers up to this load, beyond that and you will overload the amp. I am not sure if there are other issues?

I am sure others can advise.

At the end of the day, if an amp can drive the speakers and if it is good and does not distort when under its specified load then it should sound good.

Cheers

Adrian

Thanks Adrian. I think I am going to do some research and educate myself in the basic principles of amplification. Right now as far as I am concerned it is just a box that helps make speakers make noise. Given that I am planning on spending more money than I have on anything but a car, I think I should give the technology some respect!

[tornpower]

The Tannoy DMT15 II has higher power handling and sensitivity than the Ardens, so would be better suited to high sound output levels and at 98db sensitivity will go very loud!! Probably more than enough for a barn. I wouldn't mix speaker types and paralleling 8 ohm speakers by using two pairs will give a nominal 4 ohm load and it may be unwise to go below that.

Rather than use a Krell KSA 100, I'd save money and get a big Quad amp like a 909 or QSP, which have bags of power and sound just fine at high outputs, they have output protection too. The Krell may not be too happy delivering sustained high levels the Quads are likely to be more robust. The Quads sound very good with Tannoys.

Thanks for this Walpurgis. For sure then I will be looking out for the DMTII 15s rather than the Ardens. Is there something that the Ardens make up for in warmth or something? In an absolute ideal would I string eight DMTIIs together - assuming the right amplification - to get the biggest best sound. Or at taht point would it be better to spend 15-20k on one set of speakers?

Have been assured that the Sansui amp that I am buying for now will be sufficient to play the Tannoys... There has been some debate over Quads and their playback of reggae?

[tornpower]

Generally it is not a good idea to wire speakers in series because they are reactive and produce irregularities in behaviour affecting each other, and also the damping factor is ruined. But the current drawn reduces so that the possibility of amplifier damage is reduced.

Putting them in parallel is better by far, but this reduces the impedance to half the nominal value and places stress on an amplifier's ability to deliver current without damaging itself.

It is more likely that a SS amp will tolerate these higher demands, but bear in mind that some speakers have serious dips in their impedance and this also further stresses an amplifier.

I used to run Tannoy Gold 15" Lancasters with a Nelson Jones 10+10W amp which gave me 103dB, and was loud, and I would guess that your proposed speakers will be of a similar sensitivity, and so a 20 to 50W amp would do for domestic use.

In the barn is another matter, large rooms need filling, and much more so when there are lots of people because they soak up sound. When I put the above setup on the patio in the garden it was lost, especially at the bass end.

Do Jamican Sound Systems follow this model of putting them in parallel do you think? Ive now been told that potentially the Tannoys would produce potentially poor sound in a small domestic room because of sound waves as they actually move so much air. Could they also not be great for a barn because they are not quite big enough and would want some middle range room. What would you recommend for either scale? For the barn does one need to line it with that foam?

[tornpower]

Arthur, not sure how you are getting along, but thought this might be one for you depending on finances https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?66132-Krell-ksa100&highlight=krell

Sincerely appreciate this Adrian. I have discussed at length and for now am going to buy Sansui AU-919 - so that I can concentrate finances on saving up for the Tannoys - and then think about upgrading to Krell or equivalent in the future. thanks for thinking of me though :)

[AJSki2fly]

Hi

That sounds like a good plan, you may find the Samsun does a great job anyway,

Keep us up to date on progress.

[shahsy]

I do recall some London Sound Systems that used to use the Tannoy Wildcat series (Lynx, Jaguar, Puma etc) for mid and tops purposes but NOT for bass. Bass was driven by Celestion or Goodmans 18's four face reflex wardrobes or scoops or twin reflex or horn loaded bins.

The drivers were either 12's or 15's and can't be that much different to the domestic/monitor 12's and 15's.

These could satisfy your home and barn perhaps?

Have a read here on the Wildcats https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy52.htm

Jah Tubbys quad's https://images.app.goo.gl/birFdSxPcqzvFuwD7

Metro used to build the valve amps https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2018/08/mysteries-of-soundman-metro

[Pharos]

Do Jamican Sound Systems follow this model of putting them in parallel do you think? Ive now been told that potentially the Tannoys would produce potentially poor sound in a small domestic room because of sound waves as they actually move so much air. Could they also not be great for a barn because they are not quite big enough and would want some middle range room. What would you recommend for either scale? For the barn does one need to line it with that foam?

I am not someone to answer wrt the Jamaica sound systems, and have always followed the Hi-Fi edict of trying to get a system to be good at all sound reproduction rather than specialising it towards any given genre, and I am also not familiar with what they may do, but suspect from my Brixton haunting years ago that they do love bass and top.

Whether they are used in series or parallel I have no idea, and I would never do either by choice, and only in parallel for a special need to cope with a difficult situation.

Tannoys producing a poor sound in a small room> Not my experience, the previously referred to situation was in a small bedsit, and everybody loved it, they used to come round with records loads of times a week.

The bass and mid will be your main concern, but the dual concentric is less prone to room problems IMO than most other drivers.

I think they would be fine in a barn, but be warned about how sound will get absorbed as mentioned in my last post. I remember a demo at Bromley College of technology of a pair of Lowther Acoustas on the stage.
They were lost in the hall and the demonstrator was amazed. I also have just remembered that in that same hall my Tannoys were used with a Quad 303, (50+50W) for a dance BA show, and they were not doing much better than the Lowthers sound pressure wise even verging on clipping.

So your problem is; filling a large room volume, and the sound being absorbed by bodies, which are very good absorbers.

[shahsy]

Sound systems would wire in series and the amps would generally double the wattage.

So for a well designed amp rated at 100w amp at 8 ohm's output connected to a pair of 8 ohm speakers connected in series to another pair would halve the impedance down to 4 ohm's and throw out 200w.

Wired in series these four 8 ohm speakers would present a load of 16 ohm's to the amp so it would throw out 50w.

A Krell KSA-80 would throw out 80w in to an 8 ohm load, 160w in to a 4 ohm load, 320w in to a 2 ohm load and if you are really insane 640w in to a 1 ohm load!

It does however weigh about 45kg and the Extinction Rebellion crew would be chasing you if you ran it below 4 ohm's. It could all be done with Class AB amps that weigh a lot less.

I think that made sense......

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Sound systems would wire in series and the amps would generally double the wattage.

So for a well designed amp rated at 100w amp at 8 ohm's output connected to a pair of 8 ohm speakers connected in series to another pair would halve the impedance down to 4 ohm's and throw out 200w.

Wired in series these four 8 ohm speakers would present a load of 16 ohm's to the amp so it would throw out 50w.

I think that made sense......

Er... No
Speakers in series the impedance adds, speakers in parallel impedance halves
Solid State voltage amplifiers exhibit difference of power delivery vs valve , and you are forgetting current as an essential part of the wattage equation

[shahsy]

Spot on Chris, I have them the wrong way around. You are correct!