Primary school teacher dreaming of something beautiful

[tornpower]

Hi illustrious forum users,

I have been listening to reggae since I was thirteen but have only just started collecting vinyl (mostly 7s from early 70s). To be honest I had no idea how expensive it was going to be - like £30 - £100 for VG+ singles!!! I have spent years criticising my serious friends for wasting their money on vinyl arguing that it was all there for free on youtube. All that changed when a friend of a friend played me the same dub tune I had played to death off the internet, but on an very expensive set up and mint vinyl.

My ears and eyes are now open.

I will be posting a full declaration of intent and a humble plea for any advice on what system will best suit my needs. Could someone please tell me where the best place to ask is on this forum? I have a budget of 3-4k and want strictly vintage (before 1995) conscious of the risks and issues associated - just a sucker for aesthetics and just like with car design IMO everything looks lame now and has done for 20 years.

Thanks for listening - I am a total ignorant noob, and aware I have now entered the adult area. This just seemed the best place to look for expert advice.

Cheers

:) Art :)

[MoJoe]

For that sort of money you'll get a fantastic set up. You could get a vintage valve amplifier pre/power combo like quad II. They are about £1500 for a pairing in decent condition. I'd be looking a more modern speaker like proac but if you want vintage someone else will advise. For a turntable just get a project classic.

Good luck.

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[struth]

welcome to aos Arthur.. nowt wrong with vintage vinyl players.. Got one myself.. Ask in analogue section... sure folk will assist..

ps you have a name in for location,I think and not a location,...or is it??:)

[Crackles]

I was a massive reggae fan when I was younger and the first thing I would say is that the system you need to play reggae properly is very different from the audiophile systems usually discussed on here.

In my reggae days I used to take all my advice from the sound system guys in Manchester and it was all about tops, mids and most of all bass. I had never heard words like soundstage or separation.

I used a pre-amp made by Jah Tubbys (I think they are still going) with a power amp and 18" speakers. It shook the house apart when playing 70s or 80s reggae recorded in 8 or 4 track studios in Kingston but if my brother tried playing something like Pink Floyd on it it sounded crap. Same as my old Jammys or Studio One 45s sound really insipid when played through my Audionote amp and Snell Js now.

Just something that's worth baring in mind if you are going to be playing reggae primarily, though some on here may still have some good suggestions about suitable kit.

Whereabouts in the country are you?

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[tornpower]

Right, thanks very much. Will change my location shortly, cheers Struth.

I'll have a look at Quad II, Proac speakers and project classic deck.

Bit concerned by what you say Crackles. Very intrigued by the Jah Tubby's pre amp. 18 " speakers are massive right? ! I am based in Ipswich at the moment but am fairly mobile - at least on weekends! Any idea what you would be looking for to get that reggae sound with a budget of 3-4k in terms of speakers and power amp?

here are a few examples of the kind of thing i'm buying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcOhXyTbCAQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uei8OAosNw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQfKLsRMD94&list=PLALGBUijJVETHnX0YiYx3QpTqAm_68PiX&index=4

I think I am going to post my query on the 'past masters' section unless I hear different, or should it all come under analogue?

Really appreciate the help out !!

:ner:

[tornpower]

wrong emoticon... not meaning to stick my tongue out obv. thanks again

[Crackles]

The stuff you are listening to definitely won't appreciate sophisticated audiophile equipment, you just want a good clear top end and a powerful bottom end that can do the lowest frequencies and reproduce that rub a dub sound as it was intended. Those record you have linked were made to be played on Jamaican sound systems so you want to look at it from that angle.

The main problem with that is neighbours of course. The 18" drivers I had were in sound system boxes like wardrobes, but that was when I was young and selfish about disturbing people. Wouldn't even think of it now.

I can't be very helpful with suggestions for gear I'm afraid, as I'm out of touch with it, except that I would probably go for a pre/power amp combo. The preamp I had allowed me to drive the top, mid and bass through separate power amps so you could add extra weight to the bottom end.

It had a parametric equalizer that let you sweep the bass frequencies to find the sweet spot on whatever tune you were playing. It also had toggle switches for bas mid and treble so that you could silence each section. That allowed you to completely kill the bass then drop it in at the end of the intro, sound system style. Brilliant!

There's a Jamaican community in Ipswich, have you tried speaking to any soundmen there?

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[Bigman80]

Pretty sure I replied to this thread and now it's not here?

1) Avoid valve amplifiers. They won't give you a tight enough bass and you'll have overhang everywhere

One to look out for is an Aragon 4004. Bass for days and crystal clear. It would be perfect for reggae.

2) There's some JBL Ti5000 for sale on either pfm or WW. They should be all you'll require for the house.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 303275172827

3) Yup, vintage TTs are all good and fine but If my main music was reggae, I'd get a Techie 1210. They were designed to do well in high volume locations and nullify resonance which you'll get from the bass.

4) Preamp, lots to choose from in the used marker, just avoid anything with an alps blue in.

[Lawrence001]

I've met a few reggae guys with valve gear, I think they rather like the "overhang" [emoji38]

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[Light Dependant Resistor]

Pretty sure I replied to this thread and now it's not here?

1) Avoid valve amplifiers. They won't give you a tight enough bass and you'll have overhang everywhere

One to look out for is an Aragon 4004.lue

I am not so sure it can be recommended if the depressing input sensitivity is properly examined, as it will require a power amplifier to drive it.
The manufacturer is even disguising this by quoting 150mv for 1watt output rather than quoting the full output.

Better to have efficiency by using a sensitive power amp with capability of 1.5v or less for full output, and use passive attenuation including
in that choice LDR types to preserve the music signal from distortion present in preamplifiers.

[Bigman80]

I am not so sure it can be recommended if the depressing input sensitivity is properly examined, as it will require a power amplifier to drive it.
The manufacturer is even disguising this by quoting 150mv for 1watt output rather than quoting the full output.

Better to have efficiency by using a sensitive power amp with capability of 1.5v or less for full output, and use passive attenuation including
in that choice LDR types to preserve the music signal from distortion present in preamplifiers.Surprised that you recommend an LDR preamp lol

[Bigman80]

I've met a few reggae guys with valve gear, I think they rather like the "overhang" [emoji38]

Sent from my POT-LX1 using TapatalkHey, I listen to my fair share of HipHop and Reggae. Overhang just ain't gonna give you the bass required. Grip and heft with bass rattling your nuts is what it's all about.

All my opinion of course.

[southall-1998_mk2]

Howdy! Welcome to AOS.

Have fun.

S.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Surprised that you recommend an LDR preamp lol

Simply because I have yet to hear any better.

As example a comparison 2 years ago in a local hifi shop between a $12k Mcintosh valve preamp and LDR
McIntosh could not convey or recover the music properly it was polite but not involving at all, winner LDR -
5 weeks ago a expensive $8k Australian preamp - the Australian preamp was plainly tonally wrong a hallmark
of active preamps inflating certain frequencies, in this case bass at the expensive of others - hence again LDR winner.

[tornpower]

Hi all thanks for feedback. I will definitely hunt down the Jamaican community here. Only just moved so am a little out of my element. Would the Tubby preamp work with the below set up?

If my plan is to follow other users advice and get a Krell amp - good bass - (e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KRELL-KSA-100-MK-2-CLASS-A-POWER-AMPLIFIER/264330672897)

and JBL vintage speakers - (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-JBL-4310-Studio-Control-Monitors-Speakers-No-4311-L100-4312-/163764946894) - sorry bigman80 I just prefer the look of oilder speakers but appreciate your steer towards JBL - which vintage JBLs would you go for?

and Technics 1210s (everyone has been consistently clear about this) then someone recommended me getting valve phonostage (i found this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Croft-riaa-RS-MM-valve-phonostage/283599722199?hash=item4207dc56d7:g:6gMAAOSwfHBcuek a).

Does this sound like a good setup? Any improvements, things I will also need? Is the phonostage a preamp? If not what preamp would work best?

Sorry I do now seem to have two threads addressing the same problem thanks for helping me out in both. I got confused by the obligatory welcome post!

Thanks a bunch, hope your enjoying sunny (at least in Ipswich) Sunday :)

[Lawrence001]

I started looking for JBL speakers for you last night independently of the advice on here and came across these 2 JBL subs for sale. They'd be totally immense in your barn. You'd need a crossover and a couple of bridged professional amps. I've got a Behringer crossover you could borrow long term or buy off me and a couple of crown studio amps wouldn't cost much. That would be your bottom end sorted out.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 183780728266


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[Lawrence001]

Also are those preamps you're looking at designed for DJs and sound systems? You might find yourself constantly getting up and fiddling with the knobs like a DJ instead of enjoying the music. If you want your mates round for a session you might like that but otherwise you might just want something simple for now and look into investing in something like that later.

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[Lawrence001]

Hey, I listen to my fair share of HipHop and Reggae. Overhang just ain't gonna give you the bass required. Grip and heft with bass rattling your nuts is what it's all about.

All my opinion of course.Possibly, I think he should listen to a few systems to get a feel for the pros and cons of both types. All I know is a lot of reggae and dub fans swear by valves.

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[Bigman80]

Hi all thanks for feedback. I will definitely hunt down the Jamaican community here. Only just moved so am a little out of my element. Would the Tubby preamp work with the below set up?

If my plan is to follow other users advice and get a Krell amp - good bass - (e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KRELL-KSA-100-MK-2-CLASS-A-POWER-AMPLIFIER/264330672897)

and JBL vintage speakers - (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-JBL-4310-Studio-Control-Monitors-Speakers-No-4311-L100-4312-/163764946894) - sorry bigman80 I just prefer the look of oilder speakers but appreciate your steer towards JBL - which vintage JBLs would you go for?

and Technics 1210s (everyone has been consistently clear about this) then someone recommended me getting valve phonostage (i found this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Croft-riaa-RS-MM-valve-phonostage/283599722199?hash=item4207dc56d7:g:6gMAAOSwfHBcuek a).

Does this sound like a good setup? Any improvements, things I will also need? Is the phonostage a preamp? If not what preamp would work best?

Sorry I do now seem to have two threads addressing the same problem thanks for helping me out in both. I got confused by the obligatory welcome post!

Thanks a bunch, hope your enjoying sunny (at least in Ipswich) Sunday :)I'd personally hunt an Aragon 4004. YES, the Krell is better but not by the margin you'd think. Personally, I think the Aragon is a proper sleeper amp and if people knew, they'd be much harder to find and more expensive too. Plus this will leave you with a lot of budget to get the rest right.

I understand on the speaker front. Macca is the man for what JBLs to buy. Personally, I'd snap up those Ti5000 and get them spray painted piano gloss black. They'd look modern yet sound phenomenal.

Phonostage, the Croft, Many fan boys here, and I understand why. My own feeling is that they can be a little dark or brooding but that's just the flavour of the ones I've heard.

I don't like recommending my own stuff (BigBottle) so get a Valab LCR. No valves so no need to worry about what brand to use (Telefunkens only [emoji6])

Personally, I think its a cracker for the money, even after import tax etc.

[Bigman80]

Possibly, I think he should listen to a few systems to get a feel for the pros and cons of both types. All I know is a lot of reggae and dub fans swear by valves.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using TapatalkI totally agree.

What we need is for Arthur to get out and about. He's welcome to come and have a listen to his 7s at mine. I have Valves and SS. We can try it all.

[tornpower]

Lawrence. Thank you so much. I would love to buy the crossover from you. Could you explain what it does? Also are these new JBL subwoofers? Any chance there are equivalent vintage ones that would deliver as good? Or is this the best value for money in terms of guarantees and bass? Prepared to listen to advice obv.

Once I have the right speaker and amp set up can I just wheel it out and add the woofers for the barn experience? Or do I need a whole other amp/speaker combo?

I have found the following vintage JBL and I cant tell them apart or which ones might be potentially damaged. Which one would you pick? Money aside.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-LE14A-LX8-Speaker-Good-condition-Free-Shipping-d260/254351874896?hash=item3b388d9b50:g:TWkAAOSwcwxdclw 5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jbl-L100-Century-w-Orginal-Boxes-Foam-Close-Serial-s-Pristine-Condition-/153631627069

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-L100t3-speakers-Amazing-Condition-/143376749430

https://www.ebay.de/itm/JBL-4311b-Studiomonitore-gebraucht-/123829863219

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-JBL-4310-Studio-Control-Monitors-Speakers-No-4311-L100-4312-/163764946894

[tornpower]

Bigman - is that offer legit!? That would be really very helpful. As I said I literally have no idea what i am doing and am about to make a huge investment. Would be good to hear what you guys are all talking about. Where are you based?

Cheers!

[Bigman80]

Bigman - is that offer legit!? That would be really very helpful. As I said I literally have no idea what i am doing and am about to make a huge investment. Would be good to hear what you guys are all talking about. Where are you based?

Cheers!Absolutely legit!

I'm in Wolverhampton so a decent drive from Ipswich

[Lawrence001]

Lawrence. Thank you so much. I would love to buy the crossover from you. Could you explain what it does? Also are these new JBL subwoofers? Any chance there are equivalent vintage ones that would deliver as good? Or is this the best value for money in terms of guarantees and bass? Prepared to listen to advice obv.

Once I have the right speaker and amp set up can I just wheel it out and add the woofers for the barn experience? Or do I need a whole other amp/speaker combo?

I have found the following vintage JBL and I cant tell them apart or which ones might be potentially damaged. Which one would you pick? Money aside.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-LE14A-LX8-Speaker-Good-condition-Free-Shipping-d260/254351874896?hash=item3b388d9b50:g:TWkAAOSwcwxdclw 5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jbl-L100-Century-w-Orginal-Boxes-Foam-Close-Serial-s-Pristine-Condition-/153631627069

https://www.ebay.com/itm/JBL-L100t3-speakers-Amazing-Condition-/143376749430

https://www.ebay.de/itm/JBL-4311b-Studiomonitore-gebraucht-/123829863219

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-JBL-4310-Studio-Control-Monitors-Speakers-No-4311-L100-4312-/163764946894It's designed to split the signal between bass and treble after the preamp and before the power amps, or in your case more like deep bass and everything else. You're better off waiting to see what system you end up with before trying it as you might end up with a system that doesn't need it, or has one built in.

The other thing worth thinking about would be an older top of the range AV amp as they have the ability to split the bass and treble but usually only to a mono sub whereas in a large barn (I've not seen you mention this but others have referred to it so I assume you're fitting it out) I think a pair of stereo subs are best. They also usually have tone controls and some DSP which might do the job you want a specialist pre amp for.

The subs I showed you are cinema range so they're intended to be matched with AV speakers like JBL, Yamaha or Tannoy professional ranges, in fact they would work nicely in your barn.

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[Firebottle]

Bigman - is that offer legit!? That would be really very helpful. As I said I literally have no idea what i am doing and am about to make a huge investment. Would be good to hear what you guys are all talking about. Where are you based?

Cheers!

If you do make it as far as Wolverhampton you would be very welcome to call in here for an alternative flavour of kit. About 25 mins from Bigman80.

PS I have a valve phono preamp for sale atm, a lot cheaper than the Croft linked to plus MC and MM capable.

[tornpower]

Seriously touched - what a real sense of community you've got here. Yes it is indeed a bit of a drive. I will think of a time when it could work. Maybe half term! Cheers Bigman80!! It will be my first high end audio experience....

Arthur

[tornpower]

Thanks for this. I am going to have to do a lot of thinking and saving. As many people suggest I think I am also going to do some listening. If by any chance you come across killer speakers or amps that you think would work for my situation then please let me know. Really appreciate all your help Lawrence!

Basically I want a system for my moderate sized living room but also have a barn that I want to be able to go out and really bust tunes in from time to time. The question was if I get those JBL subs can I just add them to the L100s and Krell KSA80 to make a suitable big space system or do I need to start from scratch with the woofers? Also really still looking for a preamp that will allow me to fiddle with the levels but is also a really good make/model/design is this an oxymoron in high end audio equipment? If I bought the Tubby Annihilator (http://www.jahtubbys.co.uk/equipment.html) preamp is this going to colour the sound because it is not up the component part level of the other bits I am getting?

cheers

[tornpower]

It's designed to split the signal between bass and treble after the preamp and before the power amps, or in your case more like deep bass and everything else. You're better off waiting to see what system you end up with before trying it as you might end up with a system that doesn't need it, or has one built in.

The other thing worth thinking about would be an older top of the range AV amp as they have the ability to split the bass and treble but usually only to a mono sub whereas in a large barn (I've not seen you mention this but others have referred to it so I assume you're fitting it out) I think a pair of stereo subs are best. They also usually have tone controls and some DSP which might do the job you want a specialist pre amp for.

The subs I showed you are cinema range so they're intended to be matched with AV speakers like JBL, Yamaha or Tannoy professional ranges, in fact they would work nicely in your barn.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Thanks for this. I am going to have to do a lot of thinking and saving. As many people suggest I think I am also going to do some listening. If by any chance you come across killer speakers or amps that you think would work for my situation then please let me know. Really appreciate all your help Lawrence!

Basically I want a system for my moderate sized living room but also have a barn that I want to be able to go out and really bust tunes in from time to time. The question was if I get those JBL subs can I just add them to the L100s and Krell KSA80 to make a suitable big space system or do I need to start from scratch with the woofers? Also really still looking for a preamp that will allow me to fiddle with the levels but is also a really good make/model/design is this an oxymoron in high end audio equipment? If I bought the Tubby Annihilator (http://www.jahtubbys.co.uk/equipment.html) preamp is this going to colour the sound because it is not up the component part level of the other bits I am getting?

cheers

[tornpower]

Absolutely legit!

I'm in Wolverhampton so a decent drive from Ipswich

Seriously touched - what a real sense of community you've got here. Yes it is indeed a bit of a drive. I will think of a time when it could work. Maybe half term! Cheers Bigman80!! It will be my first high end audio experience....

Arthur

[tornpower]

If you do make it as far as Wolverhampton you would be very welcome to call in here for an alternative flavour of kit. About 25 mins from Bigman80.

PS I have a valve phono preamp for sale atm, a lot cheaper than the Croft linked to plus MC and MM capable.

Nice one Firebottle. Will make it a roadtrip. All the more reason to drive on over!! :)

[Bigman80]

Oh i dont know about hi end lol.

You're more than welcome to visit. Just drop me a message with times/dates that suit and we'll try and work out a date.

[tornpower]

Oh i dont know about hi end lol.

You're more than welcome to visit. Just drop me a message with times/dates that suit and we'll try and work out a date.

Thanks Ollie, will do. Maybe to pick up my preamp!?

[Bigman80]

Thanks Ollie, will do. Maybe to pick up my preamp!?Ha, cool.

[graham67]

Hi Arthur, with old speakers, condition is everything. So try to get too fixed on a particular model. Rather have a range of models that would suit and wait for a good pair to come up. Preferably try to find a set where someone else has spent the money doing them up.