Aluminium/ steel platter mats

[Boussven]

Hi there,
I am looking at platter mats and record weights for non suspended TT, like Garrard 301, TD124, L75.

Platter mats
I hear the aluminium/steel/copper can give satisfying results. Those metals doesn't overdampen the TT, like rubber, cork, or leather can do. I say CAN do, because I have good results with my Herbie's Way Excellent II mat polymer mat on my Lenco L75. But I want to try a some kind of metal mat.
Anyone experience with the Puresound Tenuto Gunmetal mat, the Custom Design Inert, or the SPEC+ AP-UD1?
Custom Design offers two versions:
Aluminium for suspended turntables, and stainless steel for non suspended. I guess the steel is not a good idea if you use magnetic cartridges.

Record Weights
I can devise the record weights on the market in two groups, the heavy ones and the not so heavy ones. I have a feeling that the massive ones are not a good idea on my vintage TT, but I don't know why. Anyone any explanation? Does the weight put too much stress on the TT motor?
Do I need a 800 gram or a 450 gram weight on my vintage TT? Many thanks for your experiences.

[steve-z]

Personally I’ve never liked the idea of metallic platter mats because of the likelihood of reflecting stylus vibrations back to the cartridge when the accepted wisdom is to channel it away from the cartridge and arm. A mat with a similar composition to vinyl being a good conduit hence the popularity of acrylic platters. Likewise I think a clamp is preferable to a weight as it doesn’t put extra stress on the bearing. I have a Rega P3 (2016) and I use an acrylic platter mat and a Michell clamp which both work well together, I also use a small spindle O ring to help with warped or dished records.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190909/10d42d7a9b9ecdab22c70f2dbd326b0e.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalkhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190909/3bc549b20681eeb575a032c56a6a5877.jpg

[Bigman80]

Hi there,
I am looking at platter mats and record weights for non suspended TT, like Garrard 301, TD124, L75.

Platter mats
I hear the aluminium/steel/copper can give satisfying results. Those metals doesn't overdampen the TT, like rubber, cork, or leather can do. I say CAN do, because I have good results with my Herbie's Way Excellent II mat polymer mat on my Lenco L75. But I want to try a some kind of metal mat.
Anyone experience with the Puresound Tenuto Gunmetal mat, the Custom Design Inert, or the SPEC+ AP-UD1?
Custom Design offers two versions:
Aluminium for suspended turntables, and stainless steel for non suspended. I guess the steel is not a good idea if you use magnetic cartridges.

Record Weights
I can devise the record weights on the market in two groups, the heavy ones and the not so heavy ones. I have a feeling that the massive ones are not a good idea on my vintage TT, but I don't know why. Anyone any explanation? Does the weight put too much stress on the TT motor?
Do I need a 800 gram or a 450 gram weight on my vintage TT? Many thanks for your experiences.I have a Tenuto. One of the best upgrades I've made to my TT (SP10)

[dwhistance]

I agree with Oliver, I use a Tenuto on my 401 and wouldn't be without it. Before I had it I used some damping rings on the platter, with the Tenuto in place it's no longer necessary. The extra mass also seems to help pitch stability.

David Whistance

[Bigman80]

I agree with Oliver, I use a Tenuto on my 401 and wouldn't be without it. Before I had it I used some damping rings on the platter, with the Tenuto in place it's no longer necessary. The extra mass also seems to help pitch stability.

David WhistanceYes, it offers a lot of benefit and personally I haven't heard a negative as of yet and I have had mine in for over a year.

Some people put a felt mat either on top or underneath it but that completely defies the idea.

Never scratches an LP and never has a single sign of wearing the bearing more for using one. Imo, it's as essential as a good record cleaner in terms of accessories

[Wakefield Turntables]

You can try the SPH platter mat made by Sien over on Lenco Heaven, works like a Tenuto (which I own) but not quite as good.

[JohnG]

I have used the Tenuto to date, on three turntable drive systems since I have owned mine.
I feel that the selection of the material to be used, as a result of the perceived SQ from the adding of a Platter Mat, is in the end going to be a personal choice for the end user, as the material used will attenuate the sound, offering different perceptions on the influence when listening to a replay.
I have chose the Tenuto as the go to mat on the PTP Solid 9, as the material seems to tighten up the Bass Notes and allow the Mid's and Highs to project a little more.
I have only used it on the SP-10, so do not know of another materials influence on the perceived SQ.
On a TD 125, it was not as good as the owners Platter Mat, when used on their system, it made sibilance more prominent, to the point of it being a detractor.
There has been a good thread produced by Rexton on his Platter Mat material trials, this might be worth a visit, as they are carried out on Idler Drive TT's.
I will add that the most striking effect I have heard to date on a already well set up TT's performance, is the Solid Tech 'Feet of Silence'.
These feet have spent much more of their time under TT's in other homes than they have been in my own home.
They are on loan again at present, when I retrieve them, it really is like a good friend is going away for a long time, sort of good bye.
I hope to have these back for the Sheffield event, if anybody would like to trial them on the day.

[Boussven]

Thanks all for the positive advices on the Tenuto mat on SP10, Garrard 301/401 and L75 PTP
Anyone any experience with the Custom Design Inert mat (UK)? or the Japanese SPEC "Analog Disc Sheet"?

[paulf-2007]

Copper mat on mine, wouldn't use anything else

[Boussven]

what is that story I hear often on the "stress on the bearing" of a heavy record weight on non suspended TT? Is it based on something, or just forumtalk?
I have the feeling that on platter mats or record weights, or on the choice of headshells, there are much opinions but not very much research.

[Pharos]

I would have thought that any extra weight from mats was very low compared with the mas of the platter.

[Boussven]

Sometimes, I have the feeling I'm talking to myself on this forum ;-) Did anyone heard of the "special material" POM used for record weights? What is it, and is it any good?

[JohnG]

POM when referencing the Web, is described as the shortened name for the thermoplastic Polyoxymethylene or Acetal.
I have always referred to it as Delrin, it is available in a few forms, depending on the role it is to be used in. POM is not as resistant to wear as PEEK, so PEEK is the upgrade material sometimes put forward to be used in the bearing housing when adding weight to a Platter assembly.
If a Bearing housing has a secure bottom seal that the Spindle Point Loads, and is robust enough that additional weight won't apply a stress to it that could dislodge it, then the platter could receive extra weight without concern.
If the spindle point load is coming into contact with a unknown material,or a known material where the condition of the material is a unknown, then any added weight could increase the rate of wear, that will be seen as detrimental or amplify the unwanted effects of a excessive abrasion on the spindles contact surface, due to an increased surface area being in use, this effect can be seen to be having a detrimental effect.
I recently have had a good look at a particular TT's Bearing Housing Base Bottom Seal, and my view is that, the material the spindle point loads, is not resistant to wear as is POM or PEEK, and it would be best left to have as little additional weight added as possible, as this would be keeping it protected from any further accelerated wear, that could be caused by the adding of weight.
The other risk is in a case like the one above, is that any changes to the properties of material in the chain, can effect the sonic signature of the device, and the new attenuation/ Sound Quality being perceived by the listener might not be as attractive to them, so the idea of keeping a material as close to the original condition, would be the most attractive if the SQ of the device as originally heard, was the Deal Clincher when buying.

[mbic]

I use a Ringmat/MRA system on my 401. No record weight of course. The sound is full of life.
The tonearm must have height adjustment.

[Boussven]

No record weight of course.

I see lots of record weights on Garrards 301/401, is this not advisable, and if so, why?

[Boussven]

POM when referencing the Web, is described as the shortened name for the thermoplastic Polyoxymethylene or Acetal.
I have always referred to it as Delrin, it is available in a few forms, depending on the role it is to be used in. POM is not as resistant to wear as PEEK, so PEEK is the upgrade material sometimes put forward to be used in the bearing housing when adding weight to a Platter assembly.
If a Bearing housing has a secure bottom seal that the Spindle Point Loads, and is robust enough that additional weight won't apply a stress to it that could dislodge it, then the platter could receive extra weight without concern.
If the spindle point load is coming into contact with a unknown material,or a known material where the condition of the material is a unknown, then any added weight could increase the rate of wear, that will be seen as detrimental or amplify the unwanted effects of a excessive abrasion on the spindles contact surface, due to an increased surface area being in use, this effect can be seen to be having a detrimental effect.
I recently have had a good look at a particular TT's Bearing Housing Base Bottom Seal, and my view is that, the material the spindle point loads, is not resistant to wear as is POM or PEEK, and it would be best left to have as little additional weight added as possible, as this would be keeping it protected from any further accelerated wear, that could be caused by the adding of weight.
The other risk is in a case like the one above, is that any changes to the properties of material in the chain, can effect the sonic signature of the device, and the new attenuation/ Sound Quality being perceived by the listener might not be as attractive to them, so the idea of keeping a material as close to the original condition, would be the most attractive if the SQ of the device as originally heard, was the Deal Clincher when buying.

Thanks for sharing this information

[mbic]

Before I switched to a Ringmat, which was a number of years ago, I used a Michell clamp, which isn’t a weight.
The only plus point was, that it flattened a warped disc. There was very little difference in the sound, if any.
My dealer at the time who sold and serviced 401’s said only use a weight if the turntable has been designed with the use of a clamp or weight.
Bear in mind when the 401 was in production, record weights etc was not part of the design. A platter matt was part of the design, so it does make sense to experiment here.
I said in a previous post that I use the MRA version of the Ringmat, this consist of a thin rubber matt and two spacers, this damps the 401’s aluminium platter, the Ringmat sits on the top.
I think the correct platter matt achieves more than a clamp or weight.

[karma67]

Has anyone used an acromat?

[mikeyb]

Has anyone used an acromat?I use a 5mm one on top of my Mike New platter as its needed to get my arm level as the platter sits very low. Sound wise I've no complaints.

[karma67]

Cheers, I will have one to try soon, the theory behind it is interesting.

[AJSki2fly]

Cheers, I will have one to try soon, the theory behind it is interesting.

I find it interesting that some of you are using aluminium and/or steel platter mats. gwernafield has been doing various investigation into ES (electro static) and I have some knowledge of it due to my repair work, and have checked some things out about materials prone to ES build up. Aluminium definitely is, and Steel can but less so.

[krugdoktor]

The best mat I ever had was a SAEC SS 300 aluminium mat on top of a SDS isoplat mat on the original Techie platter. The SDS damped the (very resonant) Techie platter perfectly and the SAEC provided the interface between record and platter.
Unfortunately the center spindle of my new Technics 1200G is not long enough for the „sandwich“, and the SAEC alone on the 1200G platter does not sound better than my Oyaide BR-12. Interestingly the Oyaide was far behind the „sandwich“ on the original Techie platter, so I think: the platter has to be inert (if not it should be damped) and the platter mat should only provide a perfect interface between record and platter!
Btw the SAEC has a very rough surface (anodized?) so it „grips“ the record especially when a record weight is used.
PS.: I never had ES issues with the metal mat!

[YNWaN]

I’ve written loads (tediously so I’m sure) on mats and record clamps/weights over the years. One manufacturer even used a collection of my own forum quotes to justify their design! Anyway, the vast majority of turntable bearings (all those mentioned in this thread) are a shaft running in a journal and supported by a thrust pad. The entire mass of the platter is therefore supported on a point running against a thrust pad. This gives a very small contact point and therefore low noise, but a very high point load/pressure. Depending on the mass of the platter a metal mat can add a significant extra load (up to 25% potentially). The same can be said for record weights where very heavy ones are available. The nature of these point load bearings is that one part is trying to drill its way through the other and the more pressure applied the faster, and more efficiently, this will happen. In reality it is very unlikely that one will actually wear through the other but it is certain that wear will be accelerated (contact wear cannot be avoided) and as wear increases so does contact area and so bearing noise. I promise all this is basic engineering fact - there is no free lunch and everything is a balance of compromises.

[YNWaN]

Putting aside weight, mats are a whole issue in their own right (as are clamps and weights). The first thing to consider is the key purpose of the mat, is it to support/damp the record or damp the platter from ringing? Mats that are good at one are rarely good at the other. For example, a thick rubberised mat is great for platter damping but awful at damping a record - at least awful in terms of linear damping a record and results in some frequencies sounding heavily over damped (slugged/stodgy) compared to others.

[Pharos]

"the platter mat should only provide a perfect interface between record and platter! "

On that basis I have bought a sheet of 3mm PVC sheeting and made a mat for my Linn, having been fed up with the felt which encouraged static and hence dust, and was more of a risk to the stylus also.

My reasoning was that the felt was very non dense, and the PVC is more so, probably nearer that of the record and the aluminium platter, thus the mechanical impedance will be a greater match.

Cleaning will be easier, but I haven't tried it yet.

[Boussven]

On the Puresound Tenuto mat:


personally I haven't heard a negative as of yet and I have had mine in for over a year.

Dave Cawley from Sound Hi Fi prefers the Oyaide BR-12 on his SP10 Mk2 restaurations.

Some others say the weight will wear out the bearing, on any turntable. People with technical skills that I trust, reinforce the bearing of the Garrard 301 with an extra thrust plate, when using the Tenuto mat.

Any thoughts on that?

[Bigman80]

On the Puresound Tenuto mat:



Dave Cawley from Sound Hi Fi prefers the Oyaide BR-12 on his SP10 Mk2 restaurations.

Some others say the weight will wear out the bearing, on any turntable. People with technical skills that I trust, reinforce the bearing of the Garrard 301 with an extra thrust plate, when using the Tenuto mat.

Any thoughts on that?No, not really.

I suppose it's entirely possible that having extra, unplanned weight could cause a bit more wear on the bearing but up untill right now, I haven't seen or heard of a single SP10 with reports of excess bearing wear from using a heavy platter mat.

What's more, there's a theory that is possible for almost everything but whether it ever actually pans out is another thing entirely.

Mr Phonomac has used one for years and as he is the man to know, I trust his opinion that its fine.

If anything I'd be more concerned with the motor needing to shift more weight than it was planned to have in the conception of its design. I am reassured though that there is more than enough capability in the motor to handle this without stress.

The Technics Guru, Mr Phonomac would be the guy to ask and to be honest, if he says it's fine (which he does) then it fine. No doubt about it.

[karma67]

i would have thought its pretty obvious that if you add another 5 kg to the platter the thurst pad will wear quicker than if you dont add 5kg.
with that said it doesn't bother me.