MM Cartridge life

[Mikeandvan]

I normally chuck my carts away after a years + use, only buying budget ones like Denon 110, Ortofon Blue etc, but can you ever be sure when a cart is ready for the bin? I currently use the wonderful Nagaoka mp200, not only a big step up from previous carts but an incredible bargain direct from Japan, with replacement styli only a £100:D Bought my first one last November, some days play around 5 hours, other days 1 hour or less, most days around 3 hours I guess, playing music whilst doing other things. So, when do you bin yours and how can you be sure your not 'throwing money away'?! Actually at a £100 a pop I may just change it yearly anyway.

[walpurgis]

Not MM, but I used my Technics EPC-305MC regularly for around twenty years. The elliptical diamond tip still looked fine under a microscope when I sold it and it still sounded superb.

[steve-z]

Depends on the diamond quality of the stylus, moving coil cartridges tend to come fitted with clear, gemstone quality stones, the quality of the stone and the polish determine how long they’ll last.
MM cartridges particularly at the low end have very poor quality diamonds, take a look under a high power magnifier at an average new MM stylus and they tend to be opaque almost coal like, as you move up in price the picture changes, the 2M Blue mentioned has a top quality clear stone and the main reason it betters the 2M Red by such a margin.
Stylus life also depends on disc condition and cleanliness, the better they both are the longer the stylus will last.


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[bob4333]

It's always intrigued me how the hardest material on this earth can be worn down by a piece of soft vinyl? I know about point loads and high generated spot temperatures but it's still very hard to buy into.

I can accept that other aspects of the cartridge may go but the tip itself?? I've not knowingly worn one out and I do look at the profile when I change the cartridge for a different "flavour". Maybe the change isn't obvious unless comparing new and old side by side.

From what I can see diamonds are polished by other diamonds or diamond pastes stuck to a disc. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1AVNG_enGB615&sxsrf=ACYBGNTmKPIi2w3JWZEp6qldlI_MupfnVQ%3A1568013 540972&ei=5Px1XYWBO5LlxgOXso-4AQ&q=how+to+polish+a+raw+diamond&oq=how+to+polish+an++diamond&gs_l=psy-ab.1.8.35i304i39j0i13l3j0i13i30l3j0i8i13i30l3.6735 .6941..14555...0.2..0.92.171.2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i8i7i30.ZGJymDs8vsw#kpvalbx=_IP11X a24Ieaq1fAPn6St-AY24 Starts at about 2.10: so how does vinyl compare to the diamond paste on the polishing plate?

Now, the LP wearing out I can understand.

I'm open to explanation........... :scratch:

[walpurgis]

It's largely microscopic dust particles in the record grooves that wear the diamond stylus away.

[struth]

If you keep records clean then a diamond will probably outlast your cantilever. Its this debris that causes most of the uneven wear. remember a side of an lp is probably a mile or so long.. Ive never worn out a tip.

[Mikeandvan]

These cantilevers are amazingly strong for their size, countless times I've knocked the tonearm for it to go skidding across the record, may'be this is why I change them once a year?

[AJSki2fly]

It's always intrigued me how the hardest material on this earth can be worn down by a piece of soft vinyl? I know about point loads and high generated spot temperatures but it's still very hard to buy into.

I can accept that other aspects of the cartridge may go but the tip itself?? I've not knowingly worn one out and I do look at the profile when I change the cartridge for a different "flavour". Maybe the change isn't obvious unless comparing new and old side by side.

From what I can see diamonds are polished by other diamonds or diamond pastes stuck to a disc. https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1AVNG_enGB615&sxsrf=ACYBGNTmKPIi2w3JWZEp6qldlI_MupfnVQ%3A1568013 540972&ei=5Px1XYWBO5LlxgOXso-4AQ&q=how+to+polish+a+raw+diamond&oq=how+to+polish+an++diamond&gs_l=psy-ab.1.8.35i304i39j0i13l3j0i13i30l3j0i8i13i30l3.6735 .6941..14555...0.2..0.92.171.2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i8i7i30.ZGJymDs8vsw#kpvalbx=_IP11X a24Ieaq1fAPn6St-AY24 Starts at about 2.10: so how does vinyl compare to the diamond paste on the polishing plate?

Now, the LP wearing out I can understand.

I'm open to explanation........... :scratch:

As Grant said the issue is with the dirt in the grooves creating a nice grinding paste, also the heat at the stylus tip is quite, "Van den Hul apparently measured tip temperatures to be 160 °C". So as I understand it the stylus tip over many record plays gets work away, or re-shaped at the contact points on the sides of it where it contacts the groove walls. This ultimately narrows the stylus and with time the stylus tip will get deeper into the V shaped groove. I believe this has at least two affects on the replayed music, it is likely to sound more top end and bass reproduction will be impaired and distortion may start to happen. Also the tip will possible start to hit the bottom of the groove and hit/pick up more particles, resulting in noisy replay, and damage to records will begin. Another aspect on how long a stylus will last is whether it is used on only clean records, the more dirt the more wear on the stylus.

There are many discussion on the net about stylus wear and how long one would/should last. From my reading it is generally considered by manufacturers and various experts that a diamond tipped stylus should be replaced at around 800 hours of used, I am not sure if this if differs for different types of cut of stylus. Some manufactures mention that their styli can be used up to 2000 hours but I believe this is only if records are kept meticulously clean.

I personally clean all my records before playing, laborious yes but if the stylus is expensive it is worth it, also it ensure the LP will last for many plays without damage. My previous cartridge I stopped using at just under 750 hours of use even though it still sounds great, I will be getting it checked and if there is significant wear I will get it re-tiped.

I hope this helps explain some of the issues, there are also may other factors such as tracking force and stylus set up that will affect stylus wear.

[Mikeandvan]

I hope this helps explain some of the issues, there are also may other factors such as tracking force and stylus set up that will affect stylus wear.
Another very informative post by Adrian, that exactly describes my experience. I remember all those inner sleeves on old records that stated something like 'a worn stylus damages records, change yours regularly'. I just changed my MP200 stylus for the unused one I had sitting in a drawer, and the music is flowing beautifully, just ordered another off Ebay direct from Japan at £130 ready for next September! I also used that Hudson vta setter you recommended, the tonearm was up a bit at the back, which I didn't notice without it, the sound is more spot on, clear and resolved. :) Now looking at the MP500, but I really shouldn't being a bit of clumsy so and so.

[AJSki2fly]

Another very informative post by Adrian, that exactly describes my experience. I remember all those inner sleeves on old records that stated something like 'a worn stylus damages records, change yours regularly'. I just changed my MP200 stylus for the unused one I had sitting in a drawer, and the music is flowing beautifully, just ordered another off Ebay direct from Japan at £130 ready for next September! I also used that Hudson vta setter you recommended, the tonearm was up a bit at the back, which I didn't notice without it, the sound is more spot on, clear and resolved. :)

Great that the Hudson vta/azimuth tool helped get it spot on, you should get improved stylus wear as well as it should be hitting the groove walls were it was intended to. Have you resolved what the was causing the top end harshness in you system?

Cheers

Adrian

[Mikeandvan]

Thinking about the cost of carts, the mp500 is £611 (cheapest price on Ebay) direct from Japan, whilst the replacement stylus is £225, I thought the expense of making carts was in the production of the stylus. So that's about £400 for a bit of plastic:scratch: Are we audiophiles getting ripped off rotten?

[Mikeandvan]

Great that the Hudson vta/azimuth tool helped get it spot on, you should get improved stylus wear as well as it should be hitting the groove walls were it was intended to. Have you resolved what the was causing the top end harshness in you system?

Cheers

Adrian

Emm, well the harshness has improved now on vinyl replay, not sure about cd, as I haven't played it in a while. I tried the Van damme hifi series speaker cables, liked them at first then put the QED back and preferred the greater resolution they seemed to bring, will swap back again though soon. Still haven't done done enough listening to decide, but I did swap out my Croft for the little bear passive, put the croft back and preferred it. I think in general I am still seeking a more open sound.

[AJSki2fly]

Emm, well the harshness has improved now on vinyl replay, not sure about cd, as I haven't played it in a while. I tried the Van damme hifi series speaker cables, liked them at first then put the QED back and preferred the greater resolution they seemed to bring, will swap back again though soon. Still haven't done done enough listening to decide, but I did swap out my Croft for the little bear passive, put the croft back and preferred it. I think in general I am still seeking a more open sound.

Not sure how your cartridge compares but you may want to consider trying a MC like:-

https://www.analogueseduction.net/cartridges2/hana-eh-high-output-moving-coil-cartridge.html

or

https://www.analogueseduction.net/cartridges2/benz-micro-mc-silver-moving-coil-cartridge.html

Both should work with your Graham Slee Era V which can take 2mV to 10mV, and load impedance of 47k Ohms which matches the Era V input, both are highly respected MC cartridges.

Reviews

http://www.audioreview.com/product/analog-sources/cartridges/benz-micro/mc-silver.html

https://www.dagogo.com/hana-eh-moving-coil-cartridge-review/

https://theaudiophileman.com/hana-sisters-el-eh-moving-coil-cartridges/

I suspect either would give you what you are looking for but if it was me I would go for the the very well liked Hana EH, Hana cartridges are generally extremely good, I have myself having listened to the Hana ML which is superb, but it is 3 times the price, although they do a high output 2.0mV version.

[Mikeandvan]

I suspect either would give you what you are looking for but if it was me I would go for the the very well liked Hana EH, Hana cartridges are generally extremely good, I have myself having listened to the Hana ML which is superb, but it is 3 times the price, although they do a high output 2.0mV version.
Thanks Adrian, might give one of those a try at some point in the next year, I must say though I did once try a mc and thought it too clinical, an AT one, the 440? It cost around £400 and I broke it within a few days as I was drowsy due to hayfever, not a good day.

[STD305M]

Hi Mike
The at440 is a mm cartridge they did a 440mlb and 440mla

[AJSki2fly]

Thanks Adrian, might give one of those a try at some point in the next year, I must say though I did once try a mc and thought it too clinical, an AT one, the 440? It cost around £400 and I broke it within a few days as I was drowsy due to hayfever, not a good day.

The 440's were moving magnet, so maybe it was another one. Sorry to hear you had the accident, but that doesn't mean you would do it again. I find making sure the arm is clipped in the holder when changing a record and always using the arm lift is the best way to stop any accidents. I also have a small flexible LED light clipped to the TT shelf so that I can see better at night or on poor light days.

[Mikeandvan]

Hi Mike
The at440 is a mm cartridge they did a 440mlb and 440mla

I probably got the model wrong.