View Full Version : New Car Waiting Time
Friend of mine has ordered a new Ford Focus with all the bells and whistles and was quoted a 12 to 17 week waiting time. It's being built in Germany (Saarlouis I guess) and you do have to wonder as to why it takes so long. I mean in the War they were being bombed round the clock but they could still knock out a Tiger tank in less than a week so it's anyone's guess as to why a Focus takes so long.
Anyway it has been 12 weeks so she has contacted the dealer to see if it is ready. And apparently it is, but it will take six weeks to ship it to the UK!
Anyone have some inside knowledge as to what that's all about? Why would it sit around in the factory for over a month before they put it on a transporter?
Most of the car companies are now making to order only rather than have lots of cars sitting in compounds. It suits them, but not the buyer. even bmw are doing it.
I went to Toyota who dont operate that way and had mine in under 4 weeks.
walpurgis
16-08-2019, 12:53
I wouldn't buy a car that I had to wait that long for. That's probably what happens when you let a woman look at the options list.
I think I would sooner wait for one to be built rather than have one that had been sat around in a compound for god knows how long.
I wouldn't buy a car that I had to wait that long for. That's probably what happens when you let a woman look at the options list.
I'll tell her you said that :D
Thing is if the car is built now but won't get here for another six weeks then surely it is sat around in a compound for six weeks anyway? To what purpose?
Unless they deliver them by tying a couple of donkeys to the front bumper and towing it all the way from Germany to here. Even then it wouldn't take six weeks.
Sherwood
16-08-2019, 13:53
I'm guessing that they probably don't assign a single driver to transport each car, but rather have scheduled (possibly, monthly) shipments. Assuming that they go to a central UK destination first, there is probably a further delay of a week or two for the individual cars to be despatched to individual dealers.
Frankly, it doesn't sound that long a wait to me.
Centuries ago I worked for Chrysler and shipped vehicles from the USA to various Latin American countries and to the Caribbean, shipping out of Baltimore. Typically it would take 6-8 weeks from order to delivery of the vehicle to the end dealer.
I guess your friend has been caught up with 'logistics' which is meant to streamline things.
I'm guessing that they probably don't assign a single driver to transport each car, but rather have scheduled (possibly, monthly) shipments. Assuming that they go to a central UK destination first, there is probably a further delay of a week or two for the individual cars to be despatched to individual dealers.
Frankly, it doesn't sound that long a wait to me.
I didn't imagine they would get someone to drive each car over individually but you can get 8(?) cars on a transporter and that only needs one driver.
Take your point about them coming to some sort of distribution point in the UK first but 6 weeks from finished car rolling off the production line to actual delivery to the customer still seems like an unnecessarily long time though.
mine was on a boat... it had my spec and was due in 3 weeks.. then a week from landing to dealership. I could have got a black one in 14 days as another boat was due in.... but they ship from Japan and Turkey.. From Germany, it depends how they are shipped. could be train or Ship.. but its a lot closer so the wait time is not right. once on uk soil it shouldnt take much more than a week; 2 at most.
BMW said to me 3 to 4 months...maybe... i said shove it.
Stryder5
16-08-2019, 16:03
Most of the car companies are now making to order only rather than have lots of cars sitting in compounds. It suits them, but not the buyer. even bmw are doing it.
I went to Toyota who dont operate that way and had mine in under 4 weeks.
Strangely Toyota were the originator of the build to order, when the body in white hits the paint booth it's sprayed it's colour, during this time the parts for this particular variant (diesel, petrol, engine size, interior etc) are called for from the manufacturers (the manufacturers have satellite sites very close to Toyota's plant). There isn't any stock.
I worked for a brake tube manufacturer and typically had a cluster of brake and fuel lines made and delivered trackside to the appropriate station within 5 minutes, they were specific to that particular car.
Toyota were the first manufacturer to utilize "Lean Thinking" as a way to keep costs for everything as slim as possible.
There were two books written to outline these principles " The Machine that Change the World" followed by "Lean Thinking",
Written by guys from MIT, Womac, Jones and Roose (I may have misspelt their names), both a good read if you are interested in automotive production.
Gary
almost all companies are doing this. only the customer can change it i guess. voting with feet etc. most i talked to were 12 to 16 weeks, but no guarentees which i think stinks
Hi Martin
My daughter just picked her new car up after waiting 19 weeks.
Crazy really,its only a c4 grand picasso
S...
Hi Martin
My daughter just picked her new car up after waiting 19 weeks.
Crazy really,its only a c4 grand picasso
S...
How's it going Steve?
I know B&W have silly wait times, that was true back when I was last in the industry, 2006. Didn't realise it also applied to Ford and Citroen.
You can get one straight from the dealers as long as your not fussy about paint or the spec. Just seems odd that they have these super-efficient factories with just in time delivery and what not, then the vehicle sits about for a month or more before it goes to the punter. There must be something I'm missing but I'm damned if I know what it is.
probably they are telling porkies and have given the car to another dealership. apparently thats rife with dealer quotas etc for their quarterly figures
She's been checking out flights to Luxembourg to see if she can collect it herself from the works...
Pigmy Pony
16-08-2019, 17:04
She's been checking out flights to Luxembourg to see if she can collect it herself from the works...
Probably get there to find it has already left for the UK, and is currently in Hong Kong en route...
Simlpe answer, chaps: don't buy new cars, buy (nearly new, ex-showroom demonstrators) or used!;)
Brand new cars are one of the biggest wastes of money out there, as they lose a third of their value, as soon as you drive them out of the showroom... It's a mug's game. And look at the hassle you've got now of waiting for one :doh:
The only new cars I've driven were ones I used to lease through the business (for tax reasons), but all my private cars have been second-hand.
Marco [never bought a brand new car in his life, and doesn't intend to either].
I agree Marco and she does too but she wants to own at least one brand new car in her lifetime and once she has children that dream's over. So I sort of understand it.
Pigmy Pony
16-08-2019, 17:59
Simlpe answer, chaps: don't buy new cars, buy (nearly new, ex-showroom demonstrators) or used!;)
Brand new cars are one of the biggest wastes of money out there, as they lose a third of their value, as soon as you drive them out of the showroom... It's a mug's game. And look at the hassle you've got now of waiting for one :doh:
The only new cars I've driven were ones I used to lease through the business (for tax reasons), but all my private cars have been second-hand.
Marco [never bought a brand new car in his life, and doesn't intend to either].
With so many people "leasing" their cars these days (virtually every new car advertised appears to offer this option) for a period of three years, with a pretty low annual mileage limit enforced by penalty charges (have I got this right?), the market surely is due to be flooded with new(ish) low mileage motors. That's where I'd be looking :)
I agree Marco and she does too but she wants to own at least one brand new car in her lifetime and once she has children that dream's over. So I sort of understand it.
Sure, each to his or her own, but personally I don't see the attraction of owning a brand new car, other than frivolous vanity.
If you look around, there are loads of ex-demonstrators around, some with less than a 100 miles on the clock, and they are *utterly mint* (still have that new car smell), and cost much less for exactly the same thing. To all intents and purposes, they are new cars. The registration plates also confirm such.
Good luck to her, and I hope she enjoys her new car when she gets it, but it's a mentality I simply can't relate to.
Marco.
I don't now what it is like now but years ago I used to buy cars and flip them for a bit of extra scratch and it was amazing the bargains you could get with a bit of looking around. I had a few connections too, which did help. But the big smokers especially, people were practically giving them away and you could always find someone who wanted one but couldn't be arsed to look.
My lease let's me do 20k a year. 60k total. Not bad
dave2010
17-08-2019, 04:37
Frankly, it doesn't sound that long a wait to me.Depends on how reliant one is on a car. A few problems with cars in our family recently have demonstrated that even a few days inconvenience puts stress levels up and may require considerable logistic planning. If one already has a working car, and the new one is “just” a replacement, then a few weeks delay is perhaps no big deal, but in some cases one gets into a hire car situation, which presents other problems.
Many of us are very reliant on our cars, and perhaps we don’t notice until suddenly something goes wrong.
dave2010
17-08-2019, 04:55
Sure, each to his or her own, but personally I don't see the attraction of owning a brand new car, other than pointless vanity.
If you look around, there are loads of ex-demonstrators around, some with less than a 100 miles on the clock, and they are *utterly mint* (still have that new car smell), and cost much less for exactly the same thing. To all intents and purposes, they are new cars. The registration plates also confirm such.
Good luck to her, and I hope she enjoys her new car when she gets it, but it's a mentality I simply can't relate to.
Marco.In our close family we have had both new and used cars. To date four new cars and I think around ten used cars. I don’t think we regret the new cars - but we tend to drive them into the ground. However one of the “new” cars might not have been new by the sort of definitions others use. One year the Ford Focus was supposed to be the best car of the year. I test drove one and didn’t like it. A while later I was passing a dealership and noticed a higher end model - a Ghia - at a low price. Took a chance and bought it. For what it was, it was a lovely car. When I picked it up it had 7 miles on the clock. Effectively one dealer had bought it, presumably to massage sales figures, so technically I wasn’t the first owner, but to all intents and purposes it was brand new.
At the other extreme, years ago I bought a used Fiat 850 for £35 in a private sale. It lasted a couple of months, but it did get us round northern France on a holiday, but when it got back the engine fell apart, and despite my best efforts I couldn’t get it reliably fixed and had to scrap it. For a long while most of my cars were cheapies, bought at the tail end of their lives. My first automatic was one such, but it took years before we got a new automatic one.
Having a new car can be a pleasant experience, as long as the spec’s right and it’s really what one wants.
I wonder if part of the waiting isn’t some government paperwork? Taxes or some tariff that takes place when sending a car from Germany to the UK? If you want to waste time, just get the government involved.
Like Marco, I’ve always bought cars one year old. Many advantages, besides saving near half, such as any manufacturer’s defects have already been attended to. And any massive failure would have already shown up. And of course no waiting. While you may not be able to select all of the options you like, it’s not unusual for others to want the same options as you, unless you’ve got strange tastes. You get to test drive the car before purchase.
But someone must buy new cars, or there wouldn’t be any used ones! I have bought one new car in my life, and it was nice to be the first to own it. I ordered a car with no radio, manual transmission, and very basic, and it was near the price of a used one due to all of the features that I did not get. And I was able to install all the radio and speakers of my choice off the bat. This was 1981, things were a bit different then.
Enjoy the new car! Take a nice road trip and break it in!
Russell
My bro usually buys new, or pre registered etc. usually change it every 3 years. Just something they started many years ago, as both needed cars to commute to school. Think he is keeping his merc for a while longer as he is unsure how his health is going to be...
Ive only bought one new motor; again it was just to have that brand spanking feel... silly I know but everyone should have it once.
Current one is new too but leased
Hi Dave,
All good stuff, so in terms of this
IA while later I was passing a dealership and noticed a higher end model - a Ghia - at a low price. Took a chance and bought it. For what it was, it was a lovely car. When I picked it up it had 7 miles on the clock. Effectively one dealer had bought it, presumably to massage sales figures, so technically I wasn’t the first owner,]but to all intents and purposes it was brand new.
Having a new car can be a pleasant experience...
How much did you save on the price of a brand new (never been driven) Ghia, and with only 7 miles on the clock, how less a "pleasant experience" do you think it delivered than a full price one with no miles on the clock?;)
I trust you take my point?:eyebrows:
And if you search on the Internet, you'll find loads of such examples, and also ex-demonstrator cars (some with the spec you want), with not much more miles on the clock than that Ghia! All it takes is a little effort:)
Marco.
Ive only bought one new motor; again it was just to have that brand spanking feel... silly I know but everyone should have it once.
It's very silly lol, when you consider my reply to Dave!;)
You choose:
A 'brand new' car, replete with "brand spanking feel", with 7 miles on the clock, for thousands of pounds less.
Or a brand new car, with no miles on the clock, for thousands of pounds more. Both have the same "brand spanking feel".
Surely only the daftest of daftees would opt for the latter?
Marco.
dave2010
17-08-2019, 09:03
How much did you save on the price of a brand new (never been driven) Ghia, and with only 7 miles on the clock, how less a "pleasant experience" do you think it delivered than a full price one with no miles on the clock?;)
I trust you take my point?:eyebrows:
I think the price difference between the list price, which I guess some people might have paid, and what we actually paid, was about £3k. For that car the pleasure was virtually identical to a car which had not been pre-registered. I don’t think even new cars are guaranteed to have no miles on the clock.
After we bought it the press started to alarm people by hinting that cars such as mine were somehow “inferior” imports - but I took that as scaremongering. After all, as noted in the first post, many cars are now imported - but the technical difference may be in paperwork, and tariffs. The car was really nice, and served its purpose well.
I think the price difference between the list price, which I guess some people might have paid, and what we actually paid, was about £3k. For that car the pleasure was virtually identical to a car which had not been pre-registered. I don’t think even new cars are guaranteed to have no miles on the clock.
Indeed, which unless you have money to burn, makes it crazy to buy new!:mental:
So an extra £3k for the experience to arguably feel a little "more special"?:lol::doh: And that was just with the example you've given.....
Get searching on the Internet, folks, for the 'brand new' car bargains that are out there!
Marco.
[/B]
It's very silly lol, when you consider my reply to Dave!;)
You choose:
A 'brand new' car, replete with "brand spanking feel", with 7 miles on the clock, for thousands of pounds less.
Or a brand new car, with no miles on the clock, for thousands of pounds more. Both have the same "brand spanking feel".
Surely only the daftest of daftees would opt for the latter?
Marco.
everyone is allowed to be daft once mate, or most would be locked up;)
Talking of hot vehicles this bus did this on the street in front of my house.
Was huge clouds of black smokehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190817/7579c334a032d18f9bb25effd79f34f5.jpg
dave2010
17-08-2019, 11:08
Get searching on the Internet, folks, for the 'brand new' car bargains that are out there!
Marco.Our own recent new cars are now nearing 12 years old. We used sites like Drive the Deal to find dealers with the best deal. It it fits in with “your” schedule (it did with ours, for various reasons) you can get good deals on new cars, but it may involve driving 1-200 miles, or getting a train. We got one car from Stafford, and another from Sheffield.
Another friend buys used cars in a similar way. The cost saving (particularly in the SE) more than pays for a one way train fare to pick up a car, and the journey may be combined with a day out.
dave2010
17-08-2019, 11:08
Wow! Remind me not to get on an Optare bus! (msg 33)
everyone is allowed to be daft once mate, or most would be locked up;)
Ha - I'm daft all the time, but not when it comes to money!:D;)
Marco.
Our own recent new cars are now nearing 12 years old. We used sites like Drive the Deal to find dealers with the best deal. It it fits in with “your” schedule (it did with ours, for various reasons) you can get good deals on new cars, but it may involve driving 1-200 miles, or getting a train. We got one car from Stafford, and another from Sheffield.
Another friend buys used cars in a similar way. The cost saving (particularly in the SE) more than pays for a one way train fare to pick up a car, and the journey may be combined with a day out.
Yups... I'd drive any amount of miles (in the UK) to get the *right* car, and indeed have done. Bought cars from Scotland, and my current one was from a dealer in Derby [near-200 mile round trip]. Like you say, the trip is treated as day out, usually combined with lunch!:cool:
Far more rewarding than just lazily walking into your nearest dealership and paying full whack for virtually the same thing [using the example you gave earlier]. The thousands of pounds saved can be spent on a nice holiday!
Marco.
Talking of hot vehicles this bus did this on the street in front of my house.
Was huge clouds of black smokehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190817/7579c334a032d18f9bb25effd79f34f5.jpg
:eek::eek:
Did you fart on the back seat again?:D
Marco.
:eek::eek:
Did you fart on the back seat again?:D
Marco.
Was fast... thats the second of their buses to do that this year. the other was full of kids. Summat going on.
A firm to avoid, then!:eek:
Marco.
Most of the car companies are now making to order only rather than have lots of cars sitting in compounds. It suits them, but not the buyer. even bmw are doing it.
I went to Toyota who dont operate that way and had mine in under 4 weeks.
I don't know were you're getting this info from, but I have a p/t job driving new cars off the ferry, many go into stock and a few go to a compound ready for delivery to a dealers. Not so sure about BMW's since the company I work for rarely imports these, but I can see their compound and it's vast, with literally thousands of cars in there. We were extremely busy before the Brexit (March) and rumour has it there's going to be thousands of extra cars imported in the near future. When you see all these cars you really do wonder were they all go.
dave2010
21-08-2019, 14:47
I quite fancy a Tesla. What does Marco (or others) recommend as a means of getting one - if not a new one?
Some other lesser electric cars are available second hand, but the developments in electric cars and batteries are such that for some models there is a vast difference between this year's model, and one from a year or two back.
montesquieu
21-08-2019, 15:32
I quite fancy a Tesla. What does Marco (or others) recommend as a means of getting one - if not a new one?
Some other lesser electric cars are available second hand, but the developments in electric cars and batteries are such that for some models there is a vast difference between this year's model, and one from a year or two back.
Electric cars are a dead end. In a few years it'll be all plug in hybrids with much smaller batteries and hydrogen fuel cells to enable decent range. Tesla etc are playing games with people's money as well as taking them for a mug.
Right now small petrol is the way to go. Who on earth wants a car with an effective range of 100 miles? And what happens if you get caught in a big traffic jam, at night, in the dark, in your jazzed up milk float?
Electric cars are a dead end. In a few years it'll be all plug in hybrids with much smaller batteries and hydrogen fuel cells to enable decent range. Tesla etc are playing games with people's money as well as taking them for a mug.
Right now small petrol is the way to go. Who on earth wants a car with an effective range of 100 miles? And what happens if you get caught in a big traffic jam, at night, in the dark, in your jazzed up milk float?
Mine is a hybrid, but not plug in. it charges itself. its a small battery, so really electric assist... works well tho and apart from a smooth ride i get good mileage too.
montesquieu
21-08-2019, 15:56
Mine is a hybrid, but not plug in. it charges itself. its a small battery, so really electric assist... works well tho and apart from a smooth ride i get good mileage too.
I had a Lexus RX hybrid for a while .. I think petrol hybrids work well for small cars but for larger ones it's hard to see the point. This thing drove like a boiled egg and got 30mpg on average which is worse than I get from my current (much faster, comfier and better driving) Jaguar XF. The RX had three engines - a 3.0 petrol and two electric ones, one on each axle (despite which there were dire warnings not to take it off-road). It also had heavy batteries and an extremely complex engine management system. The worst thing about it though was the CVT gearbox which droned annoyingly and made driving unpleasant, that and the dreadful turning circle. I only kept it six months and lost a packet when I got shot of it. Total disappointment after the Lexus GS430 petrol V8 I had before it which was one of the best cars I ever had. (24mpg - not much of a difference really for all that compromise).
My chr is mid sized.. 1.8 l engine. but its quite nippy, and holds road very well. I average about 60mpg without trying, but have had in the 90's trying hard. It is big enough for me and i can fit a hoist and scooter in it.
I understand why Grant has one [and for good reason] but you'll never see me driving an electric car... Just goes against my natural 'petrolhead' instincts!:nono:
Sorry, Dave, I know very little about Teslas. As usual, Google is your friend:)
Interestingly, since this thread's come up, my wife's thinking of changing her (now ageing) Merc A-Class, and thinking of going for a new [read as, the RIGHT type of 'new', which I will find] Fiat Panda Cross 4X4, and which she's going to have personally customised with many of the available extras.
She's *very* fussy about the looks of the cars she drives, and fell in love with the Panda's quirky appearance, while we were recently on holiday in Italy.
Ideally, she'd have a Fiat 500 (or a Mini), as those are so *her*, but we intend to take the car abroad, to save putting more miles onto mine, and also costs on fuel, so it needs to be something that looks compact, but can hold plenty of stuff when necessary [has fold-down seats, etc] - and most importantly for her, is the 'right shape' and colour!:doh::eyebrows:
Marco.
Panda 4x4 is a good motor. i had a shot of one and it can even go off rd... Not the height of comfort, or the one i used wasnt but I liked driving it.
Yeah, it gets a good rep as an off-roader. Think it's won a few awards. Might be handy in the winter when we get deep snow. It'll be comfy enough for what she mainly needs it for, as she can walk to her work (less than 2 miles from our house), and sometimes to go shopping in.
When we get round to it, we'll be taking one for a test drive, so if it's deemed unsuitable for driving long distances, we'll look elsewhere. However, both Del and I are able-bodied and don't suffer from any physical impairments, so probably don't need something as 'comfy' as you.
What amazes me is (apparently) how nippy the 0.9L, 90bhp 2-cylinder engine is, due to the unique way the turbocharged 'Twinair' system has been designed. Looking forward to giving one a wee spin!:cool:
Marco.
if your gonna do motorway driving a lot the 1.2l version is 4 cilinder and much more powerful. about town the 900cc is fine.
I understand why Grant has one [and for good reason] but you'll never see me driving an electric car... Just goes against my natural 'petrolhead' instincts!:nono:
Sorry, Dave, I know very little about Teslas. As usual, Google is your friend:)
Interestingly, since this thread's come up, my wife's thinking of changing her (now ageing) Merc A-Class, and thinking of going for a new [read as, the RIGHT type of 'new', which I will find] Fiat Panda Cross 4X4, and which she's going to have personally customised with many of the available extras.
She's *very* fussy about the looks of the cars she drives, and fell in love with the Panda's quirky appearance, while we were recently on holiday in Italy.
Ideally, she'd have a Fiat 500 (or a Mini), as those are so *her*, but we intend to take the car abroad, to save putting more miles onto mine, and also costs on fuel, so it needs to be something that looks compact, but can hold plenty of stuff when necessary [has fold-down seats, etc] - and most importantly for her, is the 'right shape' and colour!:doh::eyebrows:
Marco.
it goes pretty well for a hybrid. the multilink suspension is superb.
walpurgis
21-08-2019, 16:45
I don't need a hybrid, my 996cc Suzuki nudges 70mpg on a run and is the quickest non-turbo car of its size. Pretty nippy and perfectly capable on the motorway. Don't pay tax either. Realistically, I don't need anything bigger as there's only me in it 99% of the time.
if your gonna do motorway driving a lot the 1.2l version is 4 cilinder and much more powerful. about town the 900cc is fine.
Lol - that's what I thought until I learned differently! The 1.2 only develops 69bhp, whereas the 0.9 develops 90!
See here :https://www.fiat.co.uk/panda-range/panda-city-cross/engines-fuel-consumption
Versus this: https://www.fiat.co.uk/panda-range/panda-cross/panda-cross-engines-fuel-consumption
The 0.9 Twinair is faster and quicker!
Marco.
Aye but it's only 2 cylinder. Might be a stressful journey to continent. Worth a try tho.
The kia venga is a nice motor for not too much. Loads of room in back and rear seats slide so you can increase load space.
Nearly went for one.
A description from Jeremy Clarkson of the Fiat Twin-Air Technology, taken from a review of the Panda:
In short, the little Fiat is a joyous machine that makes you smile, but the car I’m talking about today is different. And better. It’s the new TwinAir, so called because it has an engine quite unlike anything else we’ve ever seen before.
There are only two cylinders, which is not a revolutionary idea. The original Fiat 500 was similarly equipped. However, in the new version, there is no camshaft. Instead, the exhaust valves drive the inlet valves using hydraulics and electronics, and that sounds like the greatest ever solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. But the end result is spectacular.
First of all, there’s the noise. Remember that sound you got when you put a lollipop stick in the spokes of your bicycle wheel? It’s that. Only amplified. It is one of the best engine noises I’ve ever heard. It’s nearly as good as a Merlin.
And then there’s the grunt. Yes, it may be tiny — just 875cc — but it is turbocharged so you get 85 horsepower. That means you can cruise down the motorway with ease. And it takes off from the lights like it’s being kicked into action by Toby Flood.
There’s more. Because there is much less friction in a two-cylinder engine than there is in a four, it is incredibly efficient, which means it produces less carbon dioxide than a fat man on one of Boris Johnson’s rent-a-bikes. As a result, you don’t have to pay the London congestion charge. It produces less carbon dioxide than a fat man on one of Boris Johnson’s rent-a-bikes. As a result, you don’t have to pay the London congestion charge.
Certainly, this little car is 10 times more environmentally friendly than the Toyota Prius because it’s smaller and it’s made from fewer parts and Fiat doesn’t have to plunder the Canadian countryside and cause acid rain to make its batteries. With this little car, everybody wins.
Marco.
Yup, love or hate Clarkson, but he's a diehard petrolhead and *super critical* of cars that aren't any fun to drive, and so to his mind (and also mine) pointless! So if the Panda ticks those boxes for him, that's enough for me to put it on a shortlist for Del to test drive:)
Marco.
AJSki2fly
21-08-2019, 17:13
Just read through bits of this thread, and was interested in the electric car comments.
I have been since I was 18 a petrol head, having swapped a Vauxhall Viva plus some cast for a Mini Cooper 998 with and ageing engine, I took the engine out 3 months later with the aid of Paddy Hopkirk's how to tune yo mini and rebuilt it, it got rebuilt a second time as the British Leyland supplied crank the first time had a main journal 4 thou of centre as supplied from the factory. It ended up being bored out to 1200cc, with stage 3 head, and produced 110bhp on a rolling road, and revved to 7.5K. Anyway enough of my car escapades.
What I would like to know is the safety aspect to electric cars and their batteries, I have asked many times different people what he procedure is for putting one of these out if it goes up after and accident and have yet to have any sensible reply. If one of these batteries is pierced in and accident and ignites then they go up very quickly, give of poisoness gases and burn at an extremely high temperature. Have seen a phone battery ignite, I know I would not want to be sitting on top of one if it went up, and the only way to put it out was to dump kiln dried sand on it to smother it and stop oxygen getting to it. Just imagine being sat in a car with an ignited battery and a helicopter dumping tons of sand on top of it to put the battery fire out.
Any thoughts or knowledge would be interesting?
. Petrol cars have huge tank of highly explosive fluid at back of car which likely more likely to go up. I do know the battery is located as far away as possible from crumple zones
dave2010
21-08-2019, 17:52
Electric cars are a dead end. In a few years it'll be all plug in hybrids with much smaller batteries and hydrogen fuel cells to enable decent range. Tesla etc are playing games with people's money as well as taking them for a mug.
Right now small petrol is the way to go. Who on earth wants a car with an effective range of 100 miles? And what happens if you get caught in a big traffic jam, at night, in the dark, in your jazzed up milk float?I think you're wrong. The latest plug in small pure electrics can go 150 miles without too many problems, but I agree that's not enough for really long journeys. I'm not sure what the range is on the Teslas. Even the manufacturers (e.g Renault - Zoe) say that a few years ago the range was under 100 miles, and one vehicle a few years old which I heard of recently has now only a range of about 20 miles - though it's still in use for delivery purposes.
I just spoke to a friend of mine today, and he says that his daughter has a plug in hybrid, and she never fills it up with petrol. Journeys probably a max of 60 miles a day - but I'm not sure. That's 30 miles to work, and 30 miles back. Obviously for longer journeys the petrol engine would kick in. I wasn't sure if that's how the hybrid petrol/electrics would work. Perhaps if they only run on electricity, then on the day when the petrol engine is needed to go further - that'll be when one discovers the plugs are fouled up or corroded, and the engine doesn't go any more. Surely there should be a way of forcing these cars to either work totally on petrol, or not - though having written that there was a report some while ago about many users of hybrids (work users, who didn't know) running them only on petrol - thus totally ruining the benefits of hybrid cars - as for various reasons running a plug-in hybrid only on the petrol engine is (apparently) less efficient that just having a petrol engine.
The other thing about some electric cars which might suit Jeremy Clarkson is that some (e.g Teslas) can outstrip most petrol cars performance wise - though they may use more electricity per mile than many others. Various forms of electric hybrids are being tested for racing, but this has nothing to do with efficiency, and they may actually "burn" up more energy than more conventional cars, but features such as regenerative braking, and the high acceleration possible with electric motors is what interests speed freaks.
dave2010
21-08-2019, 17:58
A description from Jeremy Clarkson of the Fiat Twin-Air Technology, taken from a review of the Panda:
...Certainly, this little car is 10 times more environmentally friendly than the Toyota Prius because it’s smaller and it’s made from fewer parts and Fiat doesn’t have to plunder the Canadian countryside and cause acid rain to make its batteries. With this little car, everybody wins.
Marco.But JC does exaggerate a great deal, and utter a lot of crap, so that doesn't mean that he's right about that.
One small car he liked about a decade ago was the Hyundai i10 - and I agree it's a (or was - not sure about the new ones) cracking little car, but that doesn't make it a great one.
Recently I've driven several Fiat 500s, which to my surprise were really nice, though I probably wouldn't actually buy one.
Clarkson also hated the BMW 1 Series when it first came out, but I can honestly say the one my wife had for 10 years was the best car we've ever had. Nothing, and I mean nothing went wrong in over 100,000 miles - not even a bulb. Sure, it had to have tyres and brake pads/discs and regular servicing, but it was faultless. It still felt new after a decade. (We bought it nearly new and saved a fortune, you'll be pleased to see, Marco! ;) ) Unlike the Nissan Qashqai she replaced it with, which is one of the most awful cars I have ever had the displeasure to drive. That's a bit harsh, maybe, lots of other people seem to like them. I guess what I'm saying is within reason you need to ignore reviews from motoring journalists who at the end of the day are just trying to sell magazines and make up your own mind.
What happened to the Morris Minor Traveller Del had - or did I dream that?
AJSki2fly
21-08-2019, 18:10
. Petrol cars have huge tank of highly explosive fluid at back of car which likely more likely to go up. I do know the battery is located as far away as possible from crumple zones
Petrol can be put out with foam, but not a lithium based battery, that’s my point.
walpurgis
21-08-2019, 18:16
There are online videos of cars with Lithium batteries catchng fire. You wouldn't want to be in one!
Clarkson also hated the BMW 1 Series when it first came out, but I can honestly say the one my wife had for 10 years was the best car we've ever had. Nothing, and I mean nothing went wrong in over 100,000 miles - not even a bulb. Sure, it had to have tyres and brake pads/discs and regular servicing, but it was faultless. It still felt new after a decade. (We bought it nearly new and saved a fortune, you'll be pleased to see, Marco! ;) ) Unlike the Nissan Qashqai she replaced it with, which is one of the most awful cars I have ever had the displeasure to drive. That's a bit harsh, maybe, lots of other people seem to like them. I guess what I'm saying is within reason you need to ignore reviews from motoring journalists who at the end of the day are just trying to sell magazines and make up your own mind.
What happened to the Morris Minor Traveller Del had - or did I dream that?
Oh yeah, mate. Defo. Firstly, BMWs of that era were well made and very reliable, so I'm not surprised by your positive experience!:)
Of course reviews aren't 'Gospel', but I know Clarkson's tastes well enough to recognise when they *could* align with mine, so that's one of the reasons why the Panda's on Del's shortlist of cars to test drive. And yes, she had a Moggie Traveller once, but all the wood rotted away, so it was eventually scrapped!:D
She wants to get another one when she retires.
Marco.
montesquieu
21-08-2019, 20:22
I think you're wrong. The latest plug in small pure electrics can go 150 miles without too many problems, but I agree that's not enough for really long journeys. I'm not sure what the range is on the Teslas. Even the manufacturers (e.g Renault - Zoe) say that a few years ago the range was under 100 miles, and one vehicle a few years old which I heard of recently has now only a range of about 20 miles - though it's still in use for delivery purposes.
I just spoke to a friend of mine today, and he says that his daughter has a plug in hybrid, and she never fills it up with petrol. Journeys probably a max of 60 miles a day - but I'm not sure. That's 30 miles to work, and 30 miles back. Obviously for longer journeys the petrol engine would kick in. I wasn't sure if that's how the hybrid petrol/electrics would work. Perhaps if they only run on electricity, then on the day when the petrol engine is needed to go further - that'll be when one discovers the plugs are fouled up or corroded, and the engine doesn't go any more. Surely there should be a way of forcing these cars to either work totally on petrol, or not - though having written that there was a report some while ago about many users of hybrids (work users, who didn't know) running them only on petrol - thus totally ruining the benefits of hybrid cars - as for various reasons running a plug-in hybrid only on the petrol engine is (apparently) less efficient that just having a petrol engine.
The other thing about some electric cars which might suit Jeremy Clarkson is that some (e.g Teslas) can outstrip most petrol cars performance wise - though they may use more electricity per mile than many others. Various forms of electric hybrids are being tested for racing, but this has nothing to do with efficiency, and they may actually "burn" up more energy than more conventional cars, but features such as regenerative braking, and the high acceleration possible with electric motors is what interests speed freaks.
150 miles then a 3-4 hour wait after that to recharge is of zero interest to me or to most people and this of course is all going well, what happens in a traffic jam in the dark in the winter?
Pure batter power might have a place but the only thing that's sustainable for proper mass market transport outside of city use (trunk roads and motorways, which most people like to be able to drive on at some point in their ownership) is something with decent range, quickly refillable. There's a lot of analysis out there that says what I'm saying, hydrogen is expensive at the moment (could come down with a proper shift to nuclear for the base load) but as for pure electric as mass transport, people with garages and driveways are fine but how on earth are we going to charge the 80% of cars parked on the street at home, at work or both? who will build the infrastructure for this, to say nothing of the battery cost (both in ££ and for the environment).
No, pure electric is a dead end, not scalable, just an interim thing to help manufacturers meet government targets for average MPG while a proper solution is found. Quite cynical of the manufacturers really. Tesla is an exception (Musk is fighting hydrogen fuel cells with all he's got) but the cost of Teslas isn't coming down any time soon - they are not and never will he mass market transportation.
Google 'range anxiety' and see how many people don't get along with electrics. Many early adopters are bailing out.
Ninanina
21-08-2019, 22:02
Waiting tine seems crazy,,
I've just ordered a new Honda MSX 125 and the delivery time is just a couple of weeks... and that's enough time for me to wait I reckon...
dave2010
21-08-2019, 22:20
No, pure electric is a dead end, not scalable, just an interim thing to help manufacturers meet government targets for average MPG while a proper solution is found. Quite cynical of the manufacturers really. Tesla is an exception (Musk is fighting hydrogen fuel cells with all he's got) but the cost of Teslas isn't coming down any time soon - they are not and never will he mass market transportation.
Sorry, I still don’t agree. I do agree that there are people whose lives may “require” them to drive long distances many days, but that doesn’t apply to most of us. For some people hybrid cars would definitely seem to be an answer, and they might just as well be plug-in hybrids - not the “self charging” sort - marketing crap!
Many electric cars can now travel large distances, and have a rapid charge - definitely not 3-4 hours.
You mention mass market transportation. I’m afraid that in our largest city that is commuter trains, and tubes - horrible though they are.
montesquieu
21-08-2019, 22:30
Sorry, I still don’t agree. I do agree that there are people whose lives may “require” them to drive long distances many days, but that doesn’t apply to most of us. For some people hybrid cars would definitely seem to be an answer, and they might just as well be plug-in hybrids - not the “self charging” sort - marketing crap!
Many electric cars can now travel large distances, and have a rapid charge - definitely not 3-4 hours.
You mention mass market transportation. I’m afraid that in our largest city that is commuter trains, and tubes - horrible though they are.
London is very much the exception and barely even moves the dial in terms of overall UK numbers - indeed it's almost an irrelevance in the wider UK picture. Less than 5% of all journeys in the UK are made by rail or light rail including tube. Over 80% are made by car.
Another case where a Londoner assumes London is the norm when it isn't.
dave2010
21-08-2019, 22:43
Sorry - I’m not a Londoner, never have been. You think I really live there!
montesquieu
21-08-2019, 22:45
Sorry - I’m not a Londoner, never have been. You think I really live there!
Er, it's a reasonable assumption:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,336
I'm Dave.
dave2010
21-08-2019, 23:02
Er, it's a reasonable assumption:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,336
I'm Dave.
Maybe, but you don’t think I’m going to give exact co-ordinates do you? Sometimes I live a very long way away from London.
Maybe, but you don’t think I’m going to give exact co-ordinates do you? Sometimes I live a very long way away from London.
Nobody asking for your post code Dave, have you sold some dodgy gear and you don`t want the buyers to find out were you live and come round with baseball bats. :lol:
But JC does exaggerate a great deal, and utter a lot of crap, so that doesn't mean that he's right about that.
One small car he liked about a decade ago was the Hyundai i10 - and I agree it's a (or was - not sure about the new ones) cracking little car, but that doesn't make it a great one.
Recently I've driven several Fiat 500s, which to my surprise were really nice, though I probably wouldn't actually buy one.
Yeah, I like the 500, but see it is as distinctly a girly car (same as the Mini), which is why my wife likes it, and because it 'looks cute'. Her favourite Fiat is actually the original 500, which is just tiny, but then so is she!:D
The only one I'd entertain owning is the Abarth version, which is tremendously sporty and really lovely little car.
As for Clarkson, of course he sometimes talks a lot of crap, but his tastes and mine in cars often align [a bit like in hi-fi when you know someone else who likes the same type of sound as you], so that's one of the reasons why the Panda's worth checking out, but moreover because regardless of what Clarkson thinks, Del likes it, and ultimately it'll be her decision!:)
Marco.
Maybe, but you don’t think I’m going to give exact co-ordinates do you? Sometimes I live a very long way away from London.
No, but location details on member profiles shouldn't be disingenuous, ditto real first names. The information provided should be honest, and in terms of locations, accurate within reason. Therefore, if London isn't the city or town nearest where you live regularly, then you should update your profile accordingly to reflect that, and put in what is.
This is mainly to help others when using the classifieds section, especially potential buyers of something you're selling believing you to be local to them for collections, etc.
Marco.
dave2010
22-08-2019, 07:57
No, but location details on member profiles shouldn't be disingenuous, ditto real first names. The information provided should be honest, and in terms of locations, accurate within reason. Therefore, if London isn't the city or town nearest where you live regularly, then you should update your profile accordingly to reflect that, and put in what is.
This is mainly to help others when using the classifieds section, especially potential buyers of something you're selling believing you to be local to them for collections, etc.
Marco.Fair enough, though using a city as a reference point for local sales may still not be over helpful, particularly as many sales and transfers are now done by mail and carriers. Taking kit across London for example can take hours, and even smaller cities can involve a lot of travel from one side to the other. If specific needs arise for members to have addresses this can be done by PM.
My name really is Dave (David), and sometimes I do live in the London area. I am wary of giving out more specific details on a web site, as there is ample evidence that sometimes these can be misused - I won’t specify how. I have bought kit from people in London, and also other AoS members in the south east. I am not trying to be deliberately misleading, just careful.
If I pretended I lived in Bradford, and actually lived in Penzance, well .... that would be taking things a bit far.
dave2010
22-08-2019, 08:05
Nobody asking for your post code Dave, have you sold some dodgy gear and you don`t want the buyers to find out were you live and come round with baseball bats. :lol:Certainly not!
I didn’t think this site was solely for buying and selling. I can contribute about music, technology and life, and much of that can be location independent. Oh - re London - I did go to the Glazunov Prom last weekend, and I took a commuter train and a tube to get there, and I’m rather too familiar with the M25 parking lot/dodgem area.
Fair enough, though using a city as a reference point for local sales may still not be over helpful, particularly as many sales and transfers are now done by mail and carriers. Taking kit across London for example can take hours, and even smaller cities can involve a lot of travel from one side to the other. If specific needs arise for members to have addresses this can be done by PM.
My name really is Dave (David), and sometimes I do live in the London area. I am wary of giving out more specific details on a web site, as there is ample evidence that sometimes these can be misused - I won’t specify how. I have bought kit from people in London, and also other AoS members in the south east. I am not trying to be deliberately misleading, just careful.
If I pretended I lived in Bradford, and actually lived in Penzance, well .... that would be taking things a bit far.
Ok. fair enough, but we need an accurate geographical location at least. Those are the rules. So is it fair to say Dave that you live in the SE of England? If so, it's better to put that on your profile, than London, if you don't actually live there.
Marco.
Lawrence001
22-08-2019, 08:32
[/B]
It's very silly lol, when you consider my reply to Dave!;)
You choose:
A 'brand new' car, replete with "brand spanking feel", with 7 miles on the clock, for thousands of pounds less.
Or a brand new car, with no miles on the clock, for thousands of pounds more. Both have the same "brand spanking feel".
Surely only the daftest of daftees would opt for the latter?
Marco.When we bought our new car, we went to the garage with every intention of buying one almost new and saving money. However, after checking on Car wow and finding a cheap dealer, presumably needing to move a new one on quickly for his targets (saving about £1.5-2k off list IIRC), the scrappage scheme in place to PX our old one only available when buying new (which I think was about £1k extra), and a more attractive rate on finance when buying new, it turned out that the price was the same give or take a few hundred, and then we could define the exact spec we wanted (eg colour, glass roof etc). The only difference was we had to travel 150 miles to collect it.
Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk
Ive still only done about 1700miles in mine lol. whoever buys it after the lease will be a happy chap/gal
When we bought our new car, we went to the garage with every intention of buying one almost new and saving money. However, after checking on Car wow and finding a cheap dealer, presumably needing to move a new one on quickly for his targets (saving about £1.5-2k off list IIRC), the scrappage scheme in place to PX our old one only available when buying new (which I think was about £1k extra), and a more attractive rate on finance when buying new, it turned out that the price was the same give or take a few hundred, and then we could define the exact spec we wanted (eg colour, glass roof etc). The only difference was we had to travel 150 miles to collect it.
Nice one, Lawrence. That's cool. The difference is you thought about it and considered your options carefully first, before buying new, rather than just wading into your nearest dealership and handing over your cash, simply to 'feel special' because you've bought a brand new car, or to earn bragging rights over your neighbours!:doh:
Only clueless, materialist idiots do that, not anyone who's sensible with their money, no matter how much of it they may have, or otherwise... Some of the wealthiest people in the world are also the most tightfisted, as they didn't get to where they are by being spendthrifts.
As an aside, and this has nothing whatsoever to do with you, the only folk who continually brag about how much money they earn, and judge success with wealth, and who are completely obsessed with that, are the vulgar chavs who up until now haven't had any!;)
It's interesting how those who are most guilty of this never discuss their parents or upbringing, most likely because they're too ashamed to admit or discuss their scumbag origins...
Anyway, I digress!
Marco.
I'm completely incurious about how much money anyone's got, how they earned it, or how they spend it, and whether their purchasing choices make them a 'chav'.
walpurgis
22-08-2019, 15:28
I'm completely incurious about how much money anyone's got, how they earned it, or how they spend it, and whether their purchasing choices make them a 'chav'.
I'm with you there Joe.
I'm completely incurious about how much money anyone's got, how they earned it, or how they spend it, and whether their purchasing choices make them a 'chav'.
Same here, and because like most well-educated and well-adjusted people, you're not 'wired' to gauge success by the contents of your bank balance, nor are you so crass or vulgar as to brag to strangers about how much you earn, or how much you've paid for the things you've bought. Plus, most importantly, you're comfortable with what you've got and who you are.
In my experience, it tends to be the rather brainless and insecure 'chavs', who are guilty of such; who obsess over material possessions and are driven by money, simply because they grew up with none, often raised by 'parents' who couldn't have given a damn. And despite how much money they've got now, they're clearly still NOT happy, but don't have the intelligence to recognise it, far less the honesty to admit it!
That certainly applies to the sad cases I'm referring to.
Marco.
Plus, these clowns are also too thick to grasp that working until 9pm every evening and having one day off a year, or something equally ridiculous, is NO LIFE WHATSOEVER, as you've got no time to enjoy yourself [remember what having FUN is?] or the money you've made, far less spend time with your kids or fulfil a proper marital relationship - and you may well die from stress/overwork LONG before you get the chance to enjoy the supposed 'future' you've built!:doh:
Marco [lives for the moment, as you never know what tomorrow will bring].
InThe Sticks
22-08-2019, 19:08
I don’t wish to sound confrontational here or cause any offense, or if i’m reading this wrong, but..
I have a couple of friends who have no choice but to work all the hours god sends just to survive and provide for their kids the best they can. Last time i looked they have a great relationship with their wives and children (i’m godfather to them). Also i’m fairly sure that they’re not nutters or thick, they are just doing the best with the hand they have been dealt.
Speaking for myself, i worked until it nearly killed me for 10 years in my 30’s, but now own 2 properties with no mortgage on either. Was it worth the risk to my health, yes, yes it was and not sure it makes me a nutter?
Like i said, maybe i’m reading those comments all wrong?
Also, just to add, but if someone works hard and earns their money honestly and buys a load of chav stuff that they shout about, then fair play. As long as the money was earned honestly and didnt hurt anyone or rip anyone off or defraud with taxes then who really cares?
It's the scroungers and criminals that should be put under the spotlight, not the workers imo.
Worry not, Gary. None of what you've written is remotely offensive or confrontational. Indeed, I agree with much of what you've written, and you or anyone you know are certainly not "nutters". I'll comment later after the football I'm currently watching.
In the meantime, I'll pop you a PM and inform you of the very genuine nutters I'm referring to.
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
22-08-2019, 19:20
I don’t wish to sound confrontational here or cause any offense, or if i’m reading this wrong, but..
I have a couple of friends who have no choice but to work all the hours god sends just to survive and provide for their kids the best they can. Last time i looked they have a great relationship with their wives and children (i’m godfather to them). Also i’m fairly sure that they’re not nutters or thick, they are just doing the best with the hand they have been dealt.
Speaking for myself, i worked until it nearly killed me for 10 years in my 30’s, but now own 2 properties with no mortgage on either. Was it worth the risk to my health, yes, yes it was and not sure it makes me a nutter?
Like i said, maybe i’m reading those comments all wrong?
Also, just to add, but if someone works hard and earns their money honestly and buys a load of chav stuff that they shout about, then fair play. As long as the money was earned honestly and didnt hurt anyone or rip anyone off or defraud with taxes then who really cares?
It's the scroungers and criminals that should be put under the spotlight, not the workers imo.
True.
As I have posted before, not everyone who works stupidly long hours are materialistic morons just after financing their barely-affordable high end lifestyle, some are just trying to pay the bills. And I know what that feels like :(
As I have posted before, not everyone who works stupidly long hours are materialistic morons...
Absolutely, but trust me mate, those I'm referring to ARE - and worse!
Marco.
If people want to work insane hours until they're too knackered to do anything but sleep afterwards, that's entirely their choice, but I can't see anything noble in the act of working for the sake of it, or just to accumulate more and more 'stuff'. Of course, having to work all the hours God sends to keep body and soul together is an entirely different matter.
If people want to work insane hours until they're too knackered to do anything but sleep afterwards, that's entirely their choice, but I can't see anything noble in the act of working for the sake of it, or just to accumulate more and more 'stuff'.
Spot on, and exactly my point!
There's certainly nothing noble in it at all; it's misguided idiocy, and the behaviour of dimwitted, shortsighted oiks, who apportion 'success' in life with the accumulation of frivolous trinkets, or how much cash there is in the bank. They do this simply because they've been conditioned to believe that life is all about money or 'status' - and worse, how you can try and buy the affection of the children you've neglected, and fix the damage that's caused, as a result of working ridiculous hours continually 'chasing the dream' :doh:
The fact is, you can't be a permanent workaholic without it *eventually* impacting negatively on your personal relationships.
That's why the world is full of lonely millionaires, with hosts of failed marriages under their belts, together with kids who resent them and have disowned them, and that in later life, bitterly regret some of the decisions they've made!
And here's another thing: if you can look back on your entire life not having made at least ONE good friend, worthy of the name, take a good look in the mirror....
Marco.
Pigmy Pony
23-08-2019, 06:30
We're booking a holiday, and going away on the 2nd for a week, and I'm working stupidly hard to pay for it. the irony is, that if I wasn't giving all my time and energy to this new job, I wouldn't need a holiday! Something not quite right there.
Anyway, so far this job hasn't been all they cracked it up to be. Last week I netted just over £300, and I'm afraid that doesn't come near covering all the bills, van costs, etc. This week I've been going flat out, doing 11-hour days (that's a lot for a lazy shite like me) and as I type this I really feel like saying f--- off to today's jobs and going back to bed.
My top line will be £955 this week, but after all the costs involved (buying all the necessary consumables, skip hire etc) and the taxman takes his bit, I'll be interested to see what goes in the bank today.
Even if it ends up a good wage, there's no way I'm doing that again. I really found my limit this week :( I said I'd give this job till Christmas before having a think, but sod that I'll decide while on holiday, and in the meantime I'm not accepting any more jobs.
Apologies if talking money seems a bit vulgar, but I don't care anymore.
We're booking a holiday, and going away on the 2nd for a week, and I'm working stupidly hard to pay for it. the irony is, that if I wasn't giving all my time and energy to this new job, I wouldn't need a holiday! Something not quite right there.
Yes, it's called work/life balance....;)
And, for the good of your health and well-being, you need to sort it out. In the meantime, enjoy your holiday. Where are you off to?:)
Even if it ends up a good wage, there's no way I'm doing that again. I really found my limit this week :( I said I'd give this job till Christmas before having a think, but sod that I'll decide while on holiday, and in the meantime I'm not accepting any more jobs.
Quite right! If what you've just described is accurate mate, then it's simply not working, as you're not making any worthwhile gains. Go back to how it was before, where YOU dictated your day and your workload. Be your own boss, and factor in some proper rest time.
Incidentally, the "nutters" I was referring to earlier almost never go on holiday or do anything nice, such as take their wives out for a meal, go to the cinema or a gig, or whatever recreational activities they would enjoy, yet claim to have "great lives" because they're "rich". Well, it would be nice to see some evidence of that, and discussion about what they've been doing, other than just working, or indulging in vulgar and utterly pathetic bragging about what they're earned! :exactly:
Wake up and smell the coffee: no-one cares.
Even more hilarious is that they claim to be the "greatest in their field", yet don't possess the intelligence or ability to run their OWN business doing such! They work their fingers to the bone, simply making their BOSS rich:lol: He's the one with the REAL money!!
Marco.
P.S You have a PM.
I used to work 16 hrs a day 7 days a week. look what happened to me..... get it sorted Steve.. it aint worth it.
I used to work 16 hrs a day 7 days a week. look what happened to me..... get it sorted Steve.. it aint worth it.
There's nothing wrong with working hard when you're young. It's character-building and fundamentally necessary to get somewhere and achieve good things. However, it has to be done SENSIBLY, and with a realistic goal in mind, and that's not to try and become "rich", but simply comfortably off, without having debts or wanting for anything important, and most of all, feeling HAPPY and contented with life.
Like you, I worked ridiculously long hours, building up my business, with 7-day weeks, overnighters and all sorts, for over 10 years, until it eventually burned me out. The stress was dreadful. And even before then, I was working long hours as a sales rep for an art supplies/picture framing company, which is where I learned the business, then left to go it alone. It's what intelligent people do, rather than continuing to line someone else's pockets with money you've generated...;)
Fortunately, even though those mad, extremely full-on years running the business nearly killed me, and had a seriously negative impact on my marriage and home life, not to mention my health, I'd managed to make enough money to go semi-retired (with the help also of some fortunate property investments). Not because I was "rich", but we'd managed to pay off our mortgage, and all other debts the business had accrued, including in times of difficulty when we had to borrow against credit cards, extend overdraft limits and all sorts, and so had secured a comfortable future.
That, and the fact that we don't have kids, live a relatively simple life, save enjoying nice food and wine (as is the norm for the majority of people who come from a continental culture), and aren't driven by having 'flash possessions' or the latest technological gadgetry, meant that the amount of money I was still earning, working from home on a part-time basis from regular corporate contracts I still had with large companies in Scotland, allowed us to pay the bills, and a little more. Plus also allow Del to do the job she LOVES as a teacher, without having to worry about looking after the house - and most importantly giving us some QUALITY TIME to spend together, rather than before when we hardly ever saw each other, as I was nearly always working.
Yes we had money back then, but we had no real life: we were merely existing, not living. Sounds familiar?
The fundamental change in our lifestyle since has made a massive difference to the quality of our lives and our marriage, as now we're closer than ever. Del enjoys coming home from work to a clean house, maintained garden, the cats looked after (whereas before they'd be left largely themselves all day), and a nice cup of tea or a cocktail waiting for her when she gets in! All possible because I have the TIME [a most precious commodity these days] to do that and other jobs that are required, including managing a couple of small properties we rent out locally, which also brings in a few quid.
Would I want to go back to earning the kind of money I did when running the business? Not a chance! Do I have less money now than I did then? Yes, big time. *BUT* it doesn't matter, because we've got more than enough to get by, and most importantly both of us are happier and more contented now than we've ever been.
Plus, and this is a *massive* thing too... Because I have the TIME to do what I want on any given day, I can look after my elderly father, not only in terms of doing chores for him, but spending QUALITY TIME with him, having meals together, etc, and making some nice memories, as he only lives down the road. At 86, I don't know how many more memories there are left to make, so I intend to make as many nice ones as I can, as you only get one dad!
So despite being "rich", how many of the money-obsessed workaholic nutters I've mentioned, could claim to have enjoyed such a close, long and loving relationship with their wives/partners or parents? I suspect few, because their GREED FOR GOLD, and misguided materialistic "purpose in life" will almost certainly have taken precedence.
Therefore, the workaholics and money-obsessives of this world, and who have wives and kids, friends or loved ones, should think about that *very carefully* when deciding on what to prioritise, and what *truly* matters in life.
Marco.
Problem mostly begins with all the very heavy lifting, and often walking with heavy loads. It wears down you cartilage etc.
Should really have stayed an ee lol
Yup, mate, I know. Fortunately, any of the jobs I did weren't really physical (so unlike you there's been no real wear and tear on my body), except when I used to deliver furniture and carpets for a well-known department store (before I later became a salesman on the shop floor), and carried the likes of three-piece suits, huge glass-fronted wall units and washing machines up numerous flights of stairs, to tenement flats in Glasgow. I was very young then, but enjoyed it, as it kept me fit and I loved the banter with all the lads!
The hard thing when I was running the business full-time, was the mental stress of being self-employed and having to generate enough money each month to pay a large mortgage on the detached bungalow we had in a 'posh' part of Glasgow, and pay most of the bills, as at the time Del was on 'buttons an hour' working on computers for Glasgow City Council, so her wage then barely put food on the table.
Got the flu, feeling really ill or so tired you can hardly stand up? Well too bad, you've got to get out there and make the money that's necessary to survive, as no-one else was going to do if for you...!! That's the tricky part of being self-employed. The good times are great (when the money's rolling in), but the bad times can be stressful beyond belief - and I largely felt the brunt of that.
However I can honestly say, hand on heart, that not ONCE did I ask my parents for any financial help, even though they'd have had the funds to solve some of our money worries back then, as I wanted to stand on my own two feet. Fortunately, through a combination of luck, persistence and hard graft, our fortunes changed when I won some important corporate contracts with large haulage companies and chains of hotels and nursing homes, which would go onto give me regular framing business, and from then on I didn't look back, and which is largely why we're in this happy position now:)
Marco.
Ridiculously, and most amusingly, the excuse from said money-obsessed "nutters", for why they don't own their own business, is because of high taxes in their country of residence [in this case Sweden], so according to them it's pointless owning your own business, as apparently skilled employees there earn more than business OWNERS...
Somehow I think their reference to "bosses" is actually managers, not owners, as I know no owner of a successful company who would be happy earning significantly less than his staff - and if so, it doesn't say much for the company in question or them! The "nutters" tax excuse is simply to cover up their own ineptitude, as it's one thing having the skills to do a manual job, and earn a good living at it, and quite something else having the intelligence, responsibility and resourcefulness to run your own successful company, which is why few people get to be their own boss.
However, there are many thousands of successful, long-established privately-owned companies, of all descriptions, throughout Sweden, so someone must be making a successful living at it! No, the reason these "nutters" don't have their own business is simply because they lack the required acumen, or in other words, they're too thick.
Even more amusing, is their excuse for not taking any holidays, despite being "rich", which is that their wives won't go away because it would mean someone else looking after their dogs, and they won't go on holiday alone...
Well, they wouldn't need to do that if they had FRIENDS:D But of course, they haven't made any during their excuse for a 'life', because no-one in their right mind would want to associate with such emotionally damaged social misfits [sleep with their wives perhaps, like your so-called 'best mate' did to you, eh Peck?:eyebrows: but that's a different mater].
Lastly - and this *really is* the LAST, before the thread gets back on topic, the "nutters" in question brag about being home by 1.30pm, or at the latest 3pm, having made a few hundred quid. Yes, but that's only because they started work at 4am, when most people are still tucked up in bed asleep! So in reality, they've been at it for over NINE HOURS, minimum, and more if they finish at 3pm. Hardly raking it in with minimal effort...
But the burning question is this: what time do these "nutters" go to bed at night, in order to get up for work at 4am?:hmm:
Well, the average person needs around 8 hours of sleep, in order to function properly. That means that these "nutters' are likely to be in bed by 8pm, every single night! So what kind of LIFE is that...?:lol:
And you can bet your boots that after having been on the go since 4am, when they come home, they'll be too knackered to do much more than eat, then maybe a couple of hours in front of the TV, and play with the kids before bed, only to conduct the same routine again next day, and the next one - and the day after, with NO HOLIDAYS - EVER.... *SAME FOUR WALLS*.
Hardly a "great life', is it Peck? If that's your "great life", then you can keep it, as I wouldn't want to lead your sad pathetic existence, no matter how much money I earned. Anyway, never mind son, it'll soon be time again for your bed, and a wank to your skud mags!:wave::wave:
Marco.
Edit: just discovered that the sad bastard goes to bed at 6pm, not 8, so has even less of a 'life' than I thought!
dave2010
23-08-2019, 13:41
msg 96:
I did one day on a commercial building site. Just about killed me. Didn't bother to go back for my pay. Lifting scaffold poles makes one realise that some people are really strong. The other downside was that I got covered in dust. Life would have been different if I'd stuck with it. I would have got stronger, I"m sure, but other opportunities which I took shortly afterwards would perhaps not have come along. I was unemployed at the time, then some better (for me) positions came along, and in the long term I didn't look back. I wouldn't look down on people who do those jobs though - some jobs are really tough - and physically demanding.
msg 96:
I did one day on a commercial building site. Just about killed me. Didn't bother to go back for my pay. Lifting scaffold poles makes one realise that some people are really strong. The other downside was that I got covered in dust. Life would have been different if I'd stuck with it. I would have got stronger, I"m sure, but other opportunities which I took shortly afterwards would perhaps not have come along. I was unemployed at the time, then some better (for me) positions came along, and in the long term I didn't look back. I wouldn't look down on people who do those jobs though - some jobs are really tough - and physically demanding.
Neither would I even dream of it, as it's the folks doing manual labour who largely keep the country going! I was simply highlighting the obvious disconnect between the reasons given by the "nutters" in question for not running their own business, doing what they're good at, and reality.
Anyway, let's get back on topic:)
Marco.
Always enjoyed hard work. It lets you know your alive. I miss it ever so much.
Just checked and my wait for car was under 4 weeks and that included all the paperwork for the lease. Quite impressive really considering what some folk have to put up with.
And that included the wait for getting the hoist fitted
Pigmy Pony
23-08-2019, 18:21
Where was your car made, Grant? Does country of origin have anything to do with waiting times?
Have you read my PM, daftee?:)
Marco.
As a Catholic, I am spared all that Protestant work ethic nonsense. As Jerome K Jerome put it: 'I am very fond of hard work. I can sit and watch it for hours'.
As a Catholic, I am spared all that Protestant work ethic nonsense. As Jerome K Jerome put it: 'I am very fond of hard work. I can sit and watch it for hours'.
Besides - you show me in the bible where Jesus says it's a sin to skive off a bit. Although as a young child I thought being Protestant must be amazing because going to church wasn't mandatory.
Sometimes we'd have some people round the house, friends of the family or whatever. And when they left my mother would say to us, in hushed tones, 'They're Protestants you know.'
Hahaha... I'll join you guys in the Catholic club!:D
Marco.
walpurgis
23-08-2019, 18:46
As a Catholic, I am spared all that Protestant work ethic nonsense. As Jerome K Jerome put it: 'I am very fond of hard work. I can sit and watch it for hours'.
As an atheist, I am spared the need to observe any kind of ethic. As far as hard work goes, as a youngster, I used to seek out the hardest manual work I could find , just for the challenge, it certainly did me no harm.
As far as hard work goes, as a youngster, I used to seek out the hardest manual work I could find , just for the challenge, it certainly did me no harm.
Ha! yes I used to do that, I thought I might as well get some additional benefit beside the pay from working in a warehouse. But I got bored with it after a year.
walpurgis
23-08-2019, 18:53
Ha! yes I used to do that, I thought I might as well get some additional benefit beside the pay from working in a warehouse. But I got bored with it after a year.
I was a wimp at seventeen. By nineteen, I looked like a compact Arnie at his peak. :D
Wasn't that simply due to the retention of excessive wind?:eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
walpurgis
23-08-2019, 19:05
Well I did have some serious farting skills. :)
And you've certainly 'honed' them over the years!:D
Marco.
AJSki2fly
23-08-2019, 19:14
Wasn't that simply due to the retention of excessive wind?:eyebrows:
;)
Marco.
More like all the wind in this thread! Touché
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
walpurgis
23-08-2019, 19:15
And you've certainly 'honed' them over the years!:D
Marco.
Yup. I can clear half a pub bar at a moment's notice. :D
Pigmy Pony
23-08-2019, 19:17
Have you read my PM, daftee?:)
Marco.
Yes I did, and it rendered me pretty much speechless! But I gave it a go anyway.
Hahaha... I'll join you guys in the Catholic club!:D
Marco.
I left. Went into recovery. Been in recovery ever since.
Pigmy Pony
23-08-2019, 19:21
As an atheist, I am spared the need to observe any kind of ethic. As far as hard work goes, as a youngster, I used to seek out the hardest manual work I could find , just for the challenge, it certainly did me no harm.
You can't know that for certain - without the hard graft you may have grown up looking like Tom Cruise. I know, I know, but it was good enough for Nicole Kidman, and she's good enough for me :)
Pigmy Pony
23-08-2019, 19:23
I was a wimp at seventeen. By nineteen, I looked like a compact Arnie at his peak. :D
I saw a compact Arnie in the last of the PPI adverts. It wasn't a good look. :(
Besides - you show me in the bible where Jesus says it's a sin to skive off a bit.
Quite the opposite, in fact. 'Consider the lilies of the field; they toil not, neither do they spin'.
Although as a young child I thought being Protestant must be amazing because going to church wasn't mandatory. Sometimes we'd have some people round the house, friends of the family or whatever. And when they left my mother would say to us, in hushed tones, 'They're Protestants you know.'
My cousin never went to church on a Sunday, even though he was Catholic. His parents couldn't be doing with all that church stuff, in contrast to mine, who'd march us off to Mass first thing Sunday morning, then back again for Benediction in the afternoon.
As an atheist, I am spared the need to observe any kind of ethic. As far as hard work goes, as a youngster, I used to seek out the hardest manual work I could find , just for the challenge, it certainly did me no harm.
I think I did some hard work, once, helping a farmer at harvest time. I quickly realised why over the past couple of centuries anyone with any sense moved to the towns and cities where there was less heavy lifting.
dave2010
24-08-2019, 06:42
Anyway, let's get back on topic:)
Marco.Seem to have gone off on another tangent. I drove a Renault Zoe recently, and asked about lead time. Apparently about four months. I also asked about the cost of the battery pack - in case it ever needed to be replaced or repaired. I was told £32k, which is more than the cost of the car - though that's with the discount. Nice car for anyone who wants a small car to run about, though don't expect to get from one end of the country to the other without lots of stops.
Where was your car made, Grant? Does country of origin have anything to do with waiting times?
probably Turkey, but could have been Japan as thats the 2 places they are made...
https://youtu.be/yKZWpGIZQaM
Amazing what they cram in there... its like a power plant under bonnet
Yes I did, and it rendered me pretty much speechless!
It's either appalling or hilarious, depending on how you see it.
I take the latter approach, as you must remember that these are clearly sick, unhappy and deeply disturbed people, suffering from an obvious mental condition [and social inadequates resenting anyone who enjoys life], so some leeway is needed when judging their disturbed behaviour. I know it's cruel to mock the afflicted, but in this case it's difficult not to.
They have so much hate in their hearts. You really have to pity them.
Anyway, Granty, are you still enjoying driving your CHR? It must've made quite a difference for you?:)
Marco.
It's either appalling or hilarious, depending on how you see it.
I take the latter approach, as you must remember that these are clearly sick, unhappy and deeply disturbed people, suffering from an obvious mental condition [and social inadequates resenting anyone who enjoys life], so some leeway is needed when judging their disturbed behaviour. I know it's cruel to mock the afflicted, but in this case it's difficult not to.
They have so much hate in their hearts. You really have to pity them.
Anyway, Granty, are you still enjoying driving your CHR? It must've made quite a difference for you?:)
Marco.
Indeedy on both counts. The hoist in back works a treat too once you get your confidence and not hit the opening at top with it :doh:
got it down to a tee now tho. just local work really mostly but its a nice motor to drive. holds the road really well if you push it too.. no rear end wiggleor body roll.
Nice one, mate. Every time I see one on the road, I think it looks cool. I think it's the 'sculpted' shape that appeals, especially in the right colour:)
Marco.
Nice one, mate. Every time I see one on the road, I think it looks cool. I think it's the 'sculpted' shape that appeals, especially in the right colour:)
Marco.
Its fairly eyecatching.. Seems to be quite a few up near me now since I got mine. They do a non hybrid as well. Hybrid is better, but its not an electric car, its an electric assist... just helps with polution especially in towns where the battery gets a lot of use, and stretches the economy.. petrol 1800 cc giving 60mpg in a fairly big, heavy vehicle that has a load in and has a lot of extras running most of time is very good. My last 1800 was giving me under 20 for similar mileage style.
Pigmy Pony
24-08-2019, 15:52
Seem to have gone off on another tangent. I drove a Renault Zoe recently, and asked about lead time. Apparently about four months. I also asked about the cost of the battery pack - in case it ever needed to be replaced or repaired. I was told £32k, which is more than the cost of the car - though that's with the discount. Nice car for anyone who wants a small car to run about, though don't expect to get from one end of the country to the other without lots of stops.
Excellent bit of salesmanship Dave - I'm sure Peugeot would pay you good money to go work for Renault :D
Pigmy Pony
24-08-2019, 16:00
Nice one, mate. Every time I see one on the road, I think it looks cool. I think it's the 'sculpted' shape that appeals, especially in the right colour:)
Marco.
Agree, they do look pretty sharp, and Anita is certainly a fan (as she does most of the driving I generally go with her choices, within reason.)
Toyota and Lexus seem to have a "house style", and it's a look that does appeal to me :)
Agree, they do look pretty sharp, and Anita is certainly a fan (as she does most of the driving I generally go with her choices, within reason.)
Toyota and Lexus seem to have a "house style", and it's a look that does appeal to me :)
She would like it I think.. really nice car. My neighbour has been in mine and she loves it. lots of safety kit too.
Agree, they do look pretty sharp, and Anita is certainly a fan (as she does most of the driving I generally go with her choices, within reason.)
Toyota and Lexus seem to have a "house style", and it's a look that does appeal to me :)
....and apparently they both do a wide range of brown-coloured interiors, especially the seats, and I'm sure you won't need me to tell you of the potential advantages for such an accomplished skid-meister as you:D
Marco.
P.S Do you like where I'm going for Christmas? Apparently wooden shacks in sheep paddocks are all the rage.
seats are black leather:ner: inner doors are brown in places mind lol
Pigmy Pony
25-08-2019, 11:15
....and apparently they both do a wide range of brown-coloured interiors, especially the seats, and I'm sure you won't need me to tell you of the potential advantages for such an accomplished skid-meister as you:D
Marco.
P.S Do you like where I'm going for Christmas? Apparently wooden shacks in sheep paddocks are all the rage.
Let me tell you about Sweden,
Only country where the clouds are interesting,
Big brother says it's the place to go...
Pop quiz - where are those lyrics from?
Oh and I'm aware of all the shades of brown interior you can choose from. Problem is with my Monday dumps. Pantone chart doesn't cater for that particular shade :(
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