View Full Version : Justin's (not Jerry's, mind) Hi-Fi Blog
Anti-gravity devices arrived a few days ago.
Boing!
I figured I'd put them under my DAC.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190722/86cd34b4d2a3e38bd896b5d5a4e775ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190722/b070454271e0b738c911225c76a98c15.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190722/8504d8a70b93925a908a53e76560765d.jpg
So here they are, under the DAC.
The triodes are EML AD1 with UX4 bases.
They do sound amazing, but they are microphonic. Hell you can hear the filaments ring when you plug them in the DAC.
So I thought some extra isolation might help.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190722/c9f502df0b7e562d47e4447bb9e41ddc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190722/fd68254d02eeb8be201142a043dd4215.jpg
So I suspended the DAC on them.
I then tapped the table with no music playing and the volume cranked up.
A substantial ring came through the speakers.
I took them out and left the DAC on the stock rubber feet.
Did the same test.
A much less loud ring came through the speakers.
Oh dear. The rubber feet provide provide better isolation than the mag lev feet!!! I actually expected they might and I will say why.
Thinking laterally, I put the mag lev feet under the rubber feet.
This looks really cool, I thought.
Did the tap test. About the same level of ringing as the rubber feet.
So no better, really.
I'm just going to keep them because I like the look.
The problem with the design seems to be the thin shaft. It makes contact with the upper half. So whilst the DAC is suspended by neodymium magnets for the most part, vibration from the table simply travels up the thin shaft into the outer body and thence the DAC's body.
Isolation fail.
These were reviewed by Hi-Fi Pig where I feel they talked pork.
Discopants
22-07-2019, 19:56
I think springs have more linear damping response, however a knock on the table is somewhat extreme of a challenge.
Have you tried listening to them just playing music in your system ?
Also as i read in the link on Jerry’s blog I think you need to experiment with positioning.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yeah I did move them around a bit. No difference to the tap test.
I think it is a very reasonable test.
You may question why I think the AD1 triodes sound so good when they are microphonic. Well, I have had microphonic valves in the past that don't sound so great.
The AD1 does sound great - really alive and wonderfully fleshed out and full sounding things. Obviously the microphony must be providing a euphonic colouration in this case.
So considering the amateur but very effective seismic physics test, I don't believe the overall sound with the mag lev feet can be better. Yet somehow I think it is a smidge better. But I keep telling myself that's delusional. Because I really think it must be.
If it is better it's by a tiny, fractional amount.
Hey Justin have you thought of a roller shelf like the one I have under my preamp. These are sold by Steve Hitch at Sonority design.
http://www.sonoritydesign.co.uk
They are very effective at reducing microphonics and feedback in valves as I have found with my preamp which is stuffed with valves.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48350836662_957532c2d0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gEAFdS)P1000206 (https://flic.kr/p/2gEAFdS) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]lickr
The bearings in cups are not ceramic or steel but some sort of advanced formula Steve has sourced. The platforms can be used under anything including massive speakers. Steve has all his gear on them but they are particularly good under sensitive electronics especially valve equipment.
Hi Jim I will read the HiFi+ review and consider it.
Tis a bit of a shame about the mag lev feet seem so ineffective. Exactly the flaw I thought they may have actually turned out to be the case but I just had to try them in case something clever was going on.
Hi Jim I will read the HiFi+ review and consider it.
Tis a bit of a shame about the mag lev feet seem so ineffective. Exactly the flaw I thought they may have actually turned out to be the case but I just had to try them in case something clever was going on.
You have to try these things as you never know what they can achieve unless you use them in your own system. AT least you can use the nice tin for biscuits!:)
Have you thought about those spring isolators Jandl purchased, I purchased a set to use under a tt that I am now selling. I haven't been able to try them under anything else yet, but will do in the near future.
Yeah I did. But I decided they looked a little unacceptable as I'd be staring at them all the time and I'd rather try these. I might return them you have 14 days to do so.
But I really do like the look of them and the concept is admirable if only it worked!!!
hifinutt
23-07-2019, 08:49
Hey Justin have you thought of a roller shelf like the one I have under my preamp. These are sold by Steve Hitch at Sonority design.
http://www.sonoritydesign.co.uk
They are very effective at reducing microphonics and feedback in valves as I have found with my preamp which is stuffed with valves.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48350836662_957532c2d0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2gEAFdS)P1000206 (https://flic.kr/p/2gEAFdS) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]lickr
The bearings in cups are not ceramic or steel but some sort of advanced formula Steve has sourced. The platforms can be used under anything including massive speakers. Steve has all his gear on them but they are particularly good under sensitive electronics especially valve equipment.
had some of these under my leema antilla which made me get some made for my B&w 804s . very effective upgrade . only problem is , lighter kit can roll about a bit !!
hifinutt
23-07-2019, 08:53
you can see the sonority stands on the right under the 1028be
https://live.staticflickr.com/1901/45070946092_546d5fd415.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2bELo2s)images (2) (https://flic.kr/p/2bELo2s) by , on Flickr
I think I might have got the maglev feet working better by aligning the feet with the body more accurately. Isolation seems very, very good at the moment, but to be sure I'd have to remove the maglev feet from under the rubber feet and put them directly under the chassis again and re-align. Will do it at some stage.
Anyway, playing some loud bass heavy electronica and the Luxman is definitely drawing more mains power than even the Accuphase or 211 monoblocks. Hence the mains cable 'upgrade' in the picture.
Basically the 1500 Watt mains regen cannot supply enough power. The first sign is the telly starts flickering... then the unit shuts down after about 20 minutes of sonic mayhem.
The answer is really to not run the telly off it too. But accessing the TV lead is more difficult, hence the mains lead, as a bodge to allow continued listening easily last night.
This has happened about three times now... must sort out the telly lead.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190810/6a7a697ca4eb7c10895a35f02fb24778.jpg
Er Justin that coiled extension cable will probably be giving you issues?:scratch:
Not sure what your getting at it won't be used when the telly is disconnected from the mains regen?
Anyway it sounded fine. I am a mains cable non-believer.
Not sure what your getting at it won't be used when the telly is disconnected from the mains regen?
Anyway it sounded fine. I am a mains cable non-believer.
Coiled cables increase resistance.
paulf-2007
10-08-2019, 17:30
Resistance = heat. Extension leads can melt with enough load when coiled
That's why I was left with a lump of molten metal and a knackered carpet then!;)
That's why I was left with a lump of molten metal and a knackered carpet then!;)
:lol:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190810/6a7a697ca4eb7c10895a35f02fb24778.jpg
This is where you are going wrong, the blue spool has better sound quality
https://i.imgur.com/B1lfdkj.jpg
This is where you are going wrong, the blue spool has better sound quality
https://i.imgur.com/B1lfdkj.jpgI have a blue one and will try it. I have always rated your advice;)
See...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190811/f0b77a186de4fc6a7a96b9d0021b5a80.jpg
not a good idea to draw a lot of current through one of these with the cable in the reel.
You can't be serious it doesn't even get warm Grant.
Its just not a good idea. you can get hot spots in the coil caused by magnetics etc. especially if there is a bad bit of insulation inside that you both cant see or feel. also you should use the shortest cable of right grade for job as there can be a significant voltage drop over long runs.
Not saying you will have a problem, but its bad practice
The voltage drop would be a good thing my mains runs at around 246V according to the mains regen unit.
Anyway I remain unconcerned especially since I will disconnect the telly from the mains regen today.
no probs Justin; was just informing in case.
I'd have put the cable reels on some stillpoints myself :cool:
Nah maglevs. I used 12 of them.
:D
New invader just arrived.
All plugged in to the system now and I am in evaluation mode.
I had to try it given my contentment with the Luxman M-800A.
This is the matching C-800F.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191004/143b6ce9d20344b1e2f293e318695c7b.jpg
brian2957
04-10-2019, 18:10
Now that's quality . Love it :)
This Luxman kit has changed my mind about solid state gear.
So yes it is very good, Grant.
Interestingly it can run two sets of RCA out at different volumes.
Further thoughts when I have spent more time with it.
This Luxman kit has changed my mind about solid state gear.
So yes it is very good, Grant.
Interestingly it can run two sets of RCA out at different volumes.
Further thoughts when I have spent more time with it.
sounds good. i like their stuff, but out of my price level.
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 13:09
This Luxman kit has changed my mind about solid state gear.
So yes it is very good, Grant.
Interestingly it can run two sets of RCA out at different volumes.
Further thoughts when I have spent more time with it.
Only takes one bit of kit to show that topologies don' t matter when you get to the upper echelon of amplification.
Looks stunning!
The circuit board traces are not allowed to form straight edged right angles.
Check it out.
https://images.app.goo.gl/k8Hdr4CPuV5kYnKMA
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 13:26
So I suspended the DAC on them.
I then tapped the table with no music playing and the volume cranked up.
A substantial ring came through the speakers.
I took them out and left the DAC on the stock rubber feet.
Did the same test.
A much less loud ring came through the speakers.
Oh dear. The rubber feet provide provide better isolation than the mag lev feet!!! I actually expected they might and I will say why.
Thinking laterally, I put the mag lev feet under the rubber feet.
This looks really cool, I thought.
Did the tap test. About the same level of ringing as the rubber feet.
So no better, really.
I'm just going to keep them because I like the look.
The problem with the design seems to be the thin shaft. It makes contact with the upper half. So whilst the DAC is suspended by neodymium magnets for the most part, vibration from the table simply travels up the thin shaft into the outer body and thence the DAC's body.
Isolation fail.
These were reviewed by Hi-Fi Pig where I feel they talked pork.
Justin, back to your vibration testing and microphonic valves, you might want to try some of these out https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-SORBOTHANE-11mm-ANTI-VIBRATION-HEMISPHERES-FEET-Turntables-Speakers-etc/301062674314?hash=item4618bbd78a:g:T0oAAMXQrhdTWUI F, they are relatively inexpensive, just select the right size for the weight of your Lampizator. I think you might be surprised by how effective they can be, I use some with my ALLNIC 300B and with the Voyd TT, mainly as I don't want to spend hundreds on isolation platforms. The other option I have tried which works well is a marble chopping board sat on the sorbothane feet and then the equipment onto the marble. I did this with a Gyrodec, known for poor isolation and prone to vibration transferral through the feet to the chassis etc., it made quite an improvement IMO.
Thanks but see post #13 I did manage to get much better isolation from the maglev feet.
AJSki2fly
05-10-2019, 14:05
Sorry missed that, might be interesting to try out though and see what you think.:)
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 18:06
The circuit board traces are not allowed to form straight edged right angles.
Check it out.
https://images.app.goo.gl/k8Hdr4CPuV5kYnKMAWhy??
I am absolutely intrigued by this. Seriously, I am just about to get my phonostage PCB made and if this is 'a thing' I want to know why
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 18:08
Found it.
Seems there's only reason for it in high current circuits and that's to prevent arcing across the angle.
Found it.
Seems there's only reason for it in high current circuits and that's to prevent arcing across the angle.The review I read claims Luxman engineers reckon it sounds better.
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 18:58
The review I read claims Luxman engineers reckon it sounds better.Interesting
InterestingBut is it true?
Trying to find a C-800F user manual online is not easy. C-600F is closest I have found so far. But it isn't the same.
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 19:19
But is it true?
Trying to find a C-800F user manual online is not easy. C-600F is closest I have found so far. But it isn't the same.No. Lol.
I don't know is the honest answer. There's absolutely no reason in the paper I just read that they could give to suggest one is better than the other, other than arcing, which in a high current circuit could happen with 90deg angles on the tracks.
Saying that, having a kink in a wire or cable is undesirable, so maybe there is some truth in it.
Well one thing is for sure it is a great sounding circuit. So maybe there is some truth in it.
Notionally I guess it resembles hardwiring more closely and perhaps that was part of the reasoning.
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 19:44
Well one thing is for sure it is a great sounding circuit. So maybe there is some truth in it.
Notionally I guess it resembles hardwiring more closely and perhaps that was part of the reasoning.Who Knows! All that matters is that you like it. Sounds like you do [emoji4]
Who Knows! All that matters is that you like it. Sounds like you do [emoji4]I might send it back the input selector knob is less than good. It wobbles around, you can pull it off without much trouble and when you do, you can see the reason for the wobbling.
Naughty Emporium. I have emailed them about it.
It does work though. And it looks fine. It's just the auction said nothing about it. That's naughty it's the principle I object to more than anything.
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 19:59
I might send it back the input selector knob is less than good. It wobbles around, you can pull it off without much trouble and when you do, you can see the reason for the wobbling.
Naughty Emporium. I have emailed them about it.
It does work though. And it looks fine. It's just the auction said nothing about it. That's naughty it's the principle I object to more than anything.Oh no!!
Decent refund and a possible repair?
There's a 14 day full refund policy.
That said they did sell it to me for a very good price. I have asked if they can get it repaired but it'll need to go to Luxman for that I am sure. Whether they repair in the UK I don't know.
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 20:14
There's a 14 day full refund policy.
That said they did sell it to me for a very good price. I have asked if they can get it repaired but it'll need to go to Luxman for that I am sure. Whether they repair in the UK I don't know.Could be a while if that's the case.
What a shame. Still, if it's as good as it looks, you'll be wise to do it.
There was another one on eBay it might be best to just get a refund and buy that one. If it's still there.
Bigman80
05-10-2019, 20:20
There was another one on eBay it might be best to just get a refund and buy that one. If it's still there.True. If that's broken, who knows what else could be up with it.
Manual for the C-800f
https://onahighernote.com/oahn/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/C800f_Manual.pdf
I think I heard this at a show sometime, but anyway always love the fit and finish of Luxman
True. If that's broken, who knows what else could be up with it.Not much if anything I suspect. It all works so far including the dodgy knob. The knob is decoupled from the actual input selection circuitry as the remote doesn't turn it when a selection is made, it doesn't click or have set positions - it just cycles through the inputs. You can hear relays click. It's built like a tank in top notch quality and should last for decades.
I'll try and find those CMCs today, Ollie.
Manual for the C-800f
https://onahighernote.com/oahn/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/C800f_Manual.pdf
I think I heard this at a show sometime, but anyway always love the fit and finish of LuxmanI skipped the Higher Note link thinking it's a dealer they won't have it.
Wrong.
Thanks!
Like the M-800A the circuit looks simple. Sure this is a significant part of the key to making a decent sounding solid state device.
Found them Ollie. Will pop in the post.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191006/14a44beada8f79a55543807ad61b275f.jpg
Bigman80
06-10-2019, 08:24
Found them Ollie. Will pop in the post.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191006/14a44beada8f79a55543807ad61b275f.jpgCool, I'll find a use for them.
I reckon the Lux is fixable and some screws have just worked loose i.e. the ones that hold the input selector in place.
Added an RJ45 and now it turns the power amp on from the remote.
All in place.
The Accuphase M-60s might be for sale soon.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191006/194aaf6cb6f436c0298cbb7505109148.jpg
lovely kit list... top ho old chap..:)
Next job is to hook the 211 monos onto the Apogee MRTs and the Luxman power onto Apogee bass.
Never had a pre that can volume match two outputs and nor have I tried that combo before.
Thanks Grant. Must clean up that mess of triodes and rectifiers on the floor. Hardly any point, though, it just builds up again:D;)
Bigman80
06-10-2019, 13:05
Superb looking rack of HI End Jap goodness.
Congratulations.
It'd be tough to sell the Accuphase they just look right there. Plus they do have some pretty commendable attributes when you basically get bored of a certain type of presentation.
So they may not be for sale. I just feel I should dump some kit, though.
hifinutt
06-10-2019, 16:43
i had a text off a bloke interested in my power amp who was waiting for a repair to his luxman power amp , wonder if it found its way to emporium !!
i had a text off a bloke interested in my power amp who was waiting for a repair to his luxman power amp , wonder if it found its way to emporium !!Nah mine's a preamp if that's what your implying. But if not who knows?
It does seem that $32,000 worth of Luxman when new (not that it is worth anything like that now) can drive a pair of Apogee Duettas, though, just about better than anything else I have tried.
Emporium are a little bit dodgy if you ask me. I evaluated them to be so before I bought the preamp. I just took a risk.
Let's see how they respond to my nudge.
jandl100
13-10-2019, 07:58
Emporium are a little bit dodgy if you ask me. I evaluated them to be so before I bought the preamp. I just took a risk.
I've had some great gear from them, they do get interesting kit in and prices are often reasonable for a dealer - but they can be a bit too relaxed about checking/testing before they sell. They do sort things out, but it can be a bit of a hassle sometimes.
I'd happily use them again.
They actually didn't reply to my query.
But to be frank I don't care. Because I have just fixed it.
Both the volume control and input select are held on by friction. It's done this way to avoid a fixing screw in the knob.
Just pulling off the input select reveals a nut as below. Tighten it and problem fixed!
Emporium tip. They advertise with fixed price. But they will accept offers via PM. I saved quite a bit that way.
With the input select switch totally fixed I am actually very, very happy with this preamp. It surprisingly for me sounds great. Better than my valve preamp. Obviously it is a fabulous match for the power amp.
I have never come across a solid state, passive or valve pre that sounds this good in my system. Really. And not just because it is new kit and I have just got it. I can see through that these days.
Now do I need another M-800A?:D
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191013/077f2ee01a6c936f997cf5287bd2dded.jpg
Great news Justin. Happy ending
Good news Justin.
Apropos Emporium, I would be weary of using them. I bought a TT from them which was not quite as described. It had been 'modified' and needed the switch spark suppressor replacing. Also they charge top dollar for any old cack (especially if it is old and desirable, such as vintage valve amps), though I didn't know one could make an offer by PM. On the few occasions I have talked to them on the phone, they haven't been particularly helpful.
Just check their feedback. It isn't great.
I am of the belief that eBay feedback less than 97% is definitely dodgy. The true figure is worse if you ask me. People are very reluctant to post negative feedback.
Last night's amp insanity session.
211 monos on the MRT and Luxman in the bass.
This sounded much better than expected i.e. really good. Far better blending than I have encountered this far trying solid state / valve combos.
What's more I am using £3 for 10m Homebase speaker cable between the monos and MRT drivers. Really. Just to try it. I had thrown some old speaker cable out a while ago which was a mistake.
Not cheap to run and it's certainly not going to save the planet.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191103/9f0995b43f4d59b40f9a804bf6dc947f.jpg
Homebase Reference.
You know you need it;)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191103/286dca998135bf8ff81beb23bba3a8a7.jpg
OK so a few notes on the Luxman preamp.
1) The volume control is 73 step discrete jobbie. It is always completely silent in operation and very precisely responsive to the remote control. It is obviously excellent.
2) Bi-amped with the 211s on the mid range/ treble ribbon, which is from around 500Hz up, I can control the volume relative to the Luxman power amp on the bass panels by +/6 DB on both ribbons. This is good.
3) Very mid range heavy material can be pulled right back easily for a warmer sound. But also channel balance can be done where it counts leaving the bass output exactly the same on both channels.
4) When using the Luxman power amp I can choose to use the balanced or single ended connections between the preamp and power amp. Despite using very different cables - Nordost Red Dawn with Eichmann's for single ended or some nice balanced IC I got from Open Door on this forum for £40 I am COMPLETELY unable to hear volume change or even be vaguely able to tell the difference in sound quality. Whilst flipping I really tried but I knew when I thought I could I was fooling myself. This seriously surprised me.
5) The display is way too small from 12 ft away.
6) Build quality is excellent. If it fails within 30 years I'd be surprised. Give or take a lose nut LOL.
7) It has excellent relays in it, as does the power amp. Turn it on and the relays clicks are so loud it brings a smile to my face. No clicks through the speakers just from the relays. It also reminds me of my Accuphase M-60 monos, which also contain insane relays that I am sure have been working without issue since 1975. Maybe it is a high end Japanese thing. Loud relays. Mandatory:D
There will be better preamps in the world but this one is good for the money especially for what I paid for it.
FWIW it's an RJ11 connector not an RJ45 between pre and power as stated above.
I went back to just the Luxman power. Definitely not as good as the bi-amp option described above.
Next experiment...
Accuphase monos on bass, Luxman on the MRTs.
Watch this space if you're even vaguely interested...:D.
If you ask me, I don't think it'll be as good. But until you try...
A lot of power on those speakers now lol
As the speaker sees it definitely less than just the Accuphase alone. By a lot.
But this just sounds easier.
Much more power from the mains overall, though.
Maybe the right electrons just need to make it through.
:)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2026 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.