View Full Version : Listening near field
Does anyone else listen to their hi Fi near field (say less than 6ft from the speakers)? If so what do you find are the pros and cons?
i have to due to room layout,it works for me,cant say ive noticed any downsides,i get a lovely centered soundstage.
i have to due to room layout,it works for me,cant say ive noticed any downsides,i get a lovely centered soundstage.
Thanks Jamie
I agree that a wonderful soundstage is a big pro. For me the only downside is that it gets a bit tiring after a full day of listening - bit like being front row at a concert for about 8 hrs :) How is that aspect with your NS1000Ms. I owned a pair many moons ago and they take no prisoners.
they are fine,i took a lot of care in setting them up and made my own stands to suit but i do know what you mean.
they are fine,i took a lot of care in setting them up and made my own stands to suit but i do know what you mean.
I'm guessing you listen at low to modest volumes.
unfortunatly yes
Me also, but with a great system its no great hardship.
Pigmy Pony
21-07-2019, 10:28
Sometimes I will stand in front of the speakers, about a metre away, and I love the way they sound there - very detailed and very 3D. I think a lot might have to do with the direct sound from the speakers, rather than it competing with boundary reflections. But I can see how it may get tiring after a while.
I would put a chair there, but Mrs. P would moan about not being able to see the telly. But if I lived on me bill I would definitely do this.
Sometimes I will stand in front of the speakers, about a metre away, and I love the way they sound there - very detailed and very 3D. I think a lot might have to do with the direct sound from the speakers, rather than it competing with boundary reflections. But I can see how it may get tiring after a while.
I would put a chair there, but Mrs. P would moan about not being able to see the telly. But if I lived on me bill I would definitely do this.
Its like wearing big head phones and you're right, the direct sound reaches you before all the spurious reflections - clean.
Another minor downside is you become aware of the mechanical sound of your amp transformers and the small amount of valve hum that all valve amps put out through the speakers.
Hi
I also listen near field, limited by room size.
The only downside is me, I'd like a bigger room.
Jamie has heard my system and I've heard his and both systems work great given the space they work in.
Only difference is due to a deaf neighbour i can play mine as loud as i like:)
Steve.
paulf-2007
21-07-2019, 16:13
My listening room in the garden is about 9' X 7' so I listen at about 6', room is treated with absorption panels at first reflection points on walls and ceiling and behind my sofa. As said no reflections to muddy the waters but I do need to sit back on the sofa as sitting upright on the edge of the sofa when adjusting settings the bass drops off. As for " mechanical sounds " not even with 99db drivers. I listen at 75-85db mostly and long sessions don't give fatigue.
My listening room in the garden is about 9' X 7' so I listen at about 6', room is treated with absorption panels at first reflection points on walls and ceiling and behind my sofa. As said no reflections to muddy the waters but I do need to sit back on the sofa as sitting upright on the edge of the sofa when adjusting settings the bass drops off. As for " mechanical sounds " not even with 99db drivers. I listen at 75-85db mostly and long sessions don't give fatigue.
Transistors seldom make noise of the type I described
Yesterday evening I was listening as usual. My speakers are set up to form a triangle with my head, each one pointed directly at me.
I don't often fiddle when listening, preferring to enjoy the music, but decided spontaneously to point the speakers a little wide of my head. It made insignificant difference to the Hi Fi aspects, but my brain experienced a sense of relief and wellbeing. It was almost subliminal and nothing like I had expected or experienced before. It was late and I was about to go to bed, but felt the need to listen on for an hour or so.
Been trying to rationalise it, this morning.
My nearfield speakers are open baffles which are known to have a very efficient transfer of energy to the air in the room. My seating position is not only close to the speakers (6ft) but also hard against a brick wall behind me. I am guessing that the speakers were able to pressurise that air space giving an effect not too dissimilar to the slight headache many people get prior to a thunderstorm. Not a situation many listeners will ever experience and I still cant really comprehend it.
Opti-cal
23-07-2019, 07:14
Thinking about it I suppose my position relative to the speakers would be described as "near-field."
My listening room (loft) is probably 14ft long by 10ft wide on average. I say on average because it is not square and has some "nooks 'n' crannies" due to fire door regulations etc which actually gives it some character (also good holes for storing vinyl!).
It also has shapes in it that naturally break up reflections which is handy.
Due to a pitched roof at both ends I have to have my Quads 4ft into the room and maybe 6ft apart, I'm probably sitting about 6-8ft from them with some space behind me to another sloping roof.
This also replicates the "headphone" effect which the Quads kind of do anyway so it is even more intense.
I have some room treatment and also digital room correction to eliminate bass humps.
The room is just completely full of sound and all of the descriptions of imaging, soundstage, timbre etc become unimportant because there is just pure layers of textured music present.
I get utterly lost and spellbound by it, which to me is the whole point. I like to escape.
Don't get me wrong, I've spent years listening to the nuances of the equipment to make sure it goes with my setup and I'd be a liar if I said I was done yet, but it would be difficult for me to imagine it being that much better (within reason, 10k on treatments in a custom room and another 50k thrown at the system would probably blow it away) but I'm fairly content where it is.
Back on subject - I never have any speakers toed in that much (to the point of pointing directly at my ears). It just never sounds right to me, even if the manufacturer guidelines are to do this. I find with conventional speakers having the face of the drivers/tweeters firing about 1-2ft past my ears gives satisfactory results. With the Quads they are toed in much less and angled up slightly for a better high end response. If they are on the floor you lose a lot at both frequency extremes.
Also never listen with your head flat to a rear wall, really messes everything up in my experience.
Of course different speakers in different rooms may have profoundly different requirements to sound optimal. If you have the patience its best to try different configurations and see what you like. Others may not!
Cheers
Thinking about it I suppose my position relative to the speakers would be described as "near-field."
My listening room (loft) is probably 14ft long by 10ft wide on average. I say on average because it is not square and has some "nooks 'n' crannies" due to fire door regulations etc which actually gives it some character (also good holes for storing vinyl!).
It also has shapes in it that naturally break up reflections which is handy.
Due to a pitched roof at both ends I have to have my Quads 4ft into the room and maybe 6ft apart, I'm probably sitting about 6-8ft from them with some space behind me to another sloping roof.
This also replicates the "headphone" effect which the Quads kind of do anyway so it is even more intense.
I have some room treatment and also digital room correction to eliminate bass humps.
The room is just completely full of sound and all of the descriptions of imaging, soundstage, timbre etc become unimportant because there is just pure layers of textured music present.
I get utterly lost and spellbound by it, which to me is the whole point. I like to escape.
Don't get me wrong, I've spent years listening to the nuances of the equipment to make sure it goes with my setup and I'd be a liar if I said I was done yet, but it would be difficult for me to imagine it being that much better (within reason, 10k on treatments in a custom room and another 50k thrown at the system would probably blow it away) but I'm fairly content where it is.
Back on subject - I never have any speakers toed in that much (to the point of pointing directly at my ears). It just never sounds right to me, even if the manufacturer guidelines are to do this. I find with conventional speakers having the face of the drivers/tweeters firing about 1-2ft past my ears gives satisfactory results. With the Quads they are toed in much less and angled up slightly for a better high end response. If they are on the floor you lose a lot at both frequency extremes.
Also never listen with your head flat to a rear wall, really messes everything up in my experience.
Of course different speakers in different rooms may have profoundly different requirements to sound optimal. If you have the patience its best to try different configurations and see what you like. Others may not!
Cheers
Thanks Chris, interesting reading. My next project may be to try a bit of room treatment. I have been doing some reading previously and had focussed down to the wall space between the speakers to reduce reflective crosstalk between the open baffles, but now the wall that sits just 12" behind my head seems equally important. I have not yet quite grasped the differences between diffusers and absorbers.
PS Chris. It would be good if you put your system in your signature.
Opti-cal
23-07-2019, 07:58
PS Chris. It would be good if you put your system in your signature.
Fair enough, I have actually been trying to construct a signature for a while but I don't seem to be able to fit it all in the way some users do! It's like they have special powers . . .
Anyway, I'll have another go today.
To answer your question I think absorbers (by their nature) absorb a percentage of the sound (maybe certain types absorb certain frequencies?).
Diffusers are more likely to "spread" the sound over an area. Both probably having a similar effect though, the end result being you hear less of the reflection from the surface/area the diffusion/absorbtion material is covering.
Again, both are likely to have pros and cons in different environments.
ATM my position is one of not revelling in ecstasy, but of clinical analysis of sound, and it is not comfortable.
I do notice that vocals are made horrible by my head being back against the sofa, in a pressure zone, so I think the behind the head boundary is very much to be considered.
Haselsh1
23-07-2019, 11:40
Not everso sure of distances but I listen across the room so I'd say it is nearfield with the speaker axis being about eight feet away. I'm using Spendor S3/5R2's and find that the big thing I get is a massive stereo sound stage. Bass is never going to be accurate with such a setup but I get the best I can using a Yamaha sub. Vocals are stunning but I'm guessing that is due to the Spendors. Loving my current system, easily the best I have ever owned.
Discopants
23-07-2019, 20:51
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190723/ab8b7ef790b79a4f37d966cf5de9a232.jpg
Jabra speak 710 , we use these at work for teleconferencing, like a 4 inch driver. Sound quality is very clear and you can sync 2 of them with blue tooth for stereo sound.
Friday afternoons after 2pm ive been hooking 2 of these up to my laptop and streaming youtube from my desk in an office which is about 10 ft square. The stands angle the speaker excellently for sitting at a desk and hitting at head height.
Annoyingly they seem to have to resync every-time I change track and they are limited by my laptop and being 4 inch drivers but the soundstage at my desk is incredible on a well produced track. Its all perfectly laid out right in front of you and gives a feeling of width greater than the room dimensions.
At home i think I have a very good soundstage but im 15 ft from the speakers , being 2 ft from these things is freakily good at about half volume there is little detectable audible distortion. Would love to hear a proper hifi set up with something like these guys and a pi dac
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nTsW9CypDHs
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Ninanina
27-07-2019, 22:58
Chris when I owned LS3/5a's near field listening was the way to hear them at their best....
Chris when I owned LS3/5a's near field listening was the way to hear them at their best....
You're quite correct. They were designed to be near field monitors, largely for speech monitoring for use in mobile OB vehicles.
Chris when I owned LS3/5a's near field listening was the way to hear them at their best....
Now there are speakers that deliver near field to perfection.
dare i say yamaha ns1000's :rolleyes:
dave2010
28-07-2019, 21:35
For preference I don't get too close to speakers, though equally I don't want to be at the far end of a large room.
I have had music evenings in our living room where for practical reasons I sat pretty much next to the speakers - not good. If I put the volume up so that people at the back could hear, I'd quite often end up with a headache. However, when not doing this, with a more normal room layout I'd be at least 8ft away, possibly more.
I’m a big fan of near-field listening and have always had my systems set up that way. In fact, there are larger rooms in my house that I could put my system in but I specifically seek out that near field experience.
hornucopia
29-07-2019, 10:00
I have Zigmahornets (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zigmahornet/zigmahornet.html) set up either side of my iMac. The imagery was so good, it encouraged me to move bigger and get my (full rangers) Ocellia Calliopes..
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/ocellia/ocellia.html
Dave Hewitt thought my Calliopes were like giant headphones- in their effect. So 'near field' in a way.
I often think i might listen more whilst on line than other times!
Just moved the whole Mac set up to a light front room and enjoying it, though it means I can't run the Ocellias from Mac any more.
downsize beckons.
Haselsh1
29-07-2019, 16:12
I’m a big fan of near-field listening and have always had my systems set up that way. In fact, there are larger rooms in my house that I could put my system in but I specifically seek out that near field experience.
:thumbsup:
Near field set ups sound better in larger rooms though...
Pigmy Pony
29-07-2019, 18:12
I’m a big fan of near-field listening and have always had my systems set up that way. In fact, there are larger rooms in my house that I could put my system in but I specifically seek out that near field experience.
Glad you edited your post Mark, the bear field bit got me a bit worried. Sounds like a dangerous place to be:)
Idlewithnodrive
29-07-2019, 20:04
I’m a big fan of near-field listening and have always had my systems set up that way. In fact, there are larger rooms in my house that I could put my system in but I specifically seek out that near field experience.
Amen brother. The only way to listen.
There are definite benefits to near field, but what can you do in a big room with big speakers - they virtually have to go against a boundary or they're in the way?
Lawrence001
29-07-2019, 21:55
There are definite benefits to near field, but what can you do in a big room with big speakers - they virtually have to go against a boundary or they're in the way?Isn't it even worse in a small room?
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paulf-2007
30-07-2019, 16:56
Isn't it even worse in a small room?
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I was thinking the same.
paulf-2007
30-07-2019, 16:58
Near field set ups sound better in larger rooms though...
.....than nearfield in a small room or not nearfield in a large room. My tiny room only gives me the option of nearfield.
.....than nearfield in a small room or not nearfield in a large room. My tiny room only gives me the option of nearfield.
I've had nearfield in small rooms and nearfield in large rooms and nearfield in a large room is better, although obviously it is completely subjective. Some people like to have the sound bouncing around them and some don't notice it at all.
Nearfield in the large rooms was dictated by the fact that at the time I only had tiny little speakers that sounded lost if I was listening more than 6 foot from them.
Pigmy Pony
30-07-2019, 20:25
.....than nearfield in a small room or not nearfield in a large room. My tiny room only gives me the option of nearfield.
Paul, your signature has to be the worst classified advert ever! :D So you're no longer a Zu keeper?
This is what near field means to me.
My head is 5ft from the front face of these babies.
The fields were defined (I think), by Newell and Holland as ;
Near; direct sound energy greater than reflected, Mid, direct and reflected equal, and, Far, indirect sound greater than direct.
This may only be a rule of thumb rather than something mathematically defined.
Alan Shaw says that the only real test of a speaker is near field listening.
Big speakers in a small room seem to me to be a situation which will result in more pressure loading.
I wouldn't disagree with those definitions. My system is in a large room, but driven into retreat by the need for a dining area.
Interesting about pressurising the room which is what I was referring to in post #13
paulf-2007
31-07-2019, 13:48
Paul, your signature has to be the worst classified advert ever! :D So you're no longer a Zu keeper?
I still have zu's so officially I am the keeper but they are for sale. Not sure what you mean by classified ad.
paulf-2007
31-07-2019, 15:09
This is what near field means to me.
My head is 5ft from the front face of these babies.
That set up has to sound special.
That set up has to sound special.
Oh it does.
In retirement I am fortunate to be able to indulge my passion for music and HiFi before I get too old or deaf. Retirement coincided with finding SW1X as a start up business less than an hour away and I finally discovered the sound quality I had searched for all my life. :)
hornucopia
31-07-2019, 16:10
Luckily I've been able to enjoy my passion BEFORE returement (though now well into it!).
When I tentatively started my Cafe business -as it became - in 1979, i hoped to be able to get a good stereo, and a Citroen DS23 out of it. Had them both within 3 years; still own the Hafler pre + Power amps, though the DS went to fund my house purchase.
Nice to see the SW1X set up, Chris.
"Interesting about pressurising the room which is what I was referring to in post #13 "
Yes Chris, but mainly of course at bass frequencies, at high the air mass presents itself as a greater impedance.
Small room big speakers - headphone-like.
Pigmy Pony
31-07-2019, 19:05
I still have zu's so officially I am the keeper but they are for sale. Not sure what you mean by classified ad.
I was suggesting that if your speakers were for sale, hiding that fact at the end of your signature isn't likely to attract much attention :)
An interesting discussion . I have a modest Yamaha AS 500 amp ,with Tannoy dual concentric speakers , and I have ended up with them on a slanted foam matting on a parquay floor .
They sit about 8ft away from the central point of my listening reclining chair , where my head is (I rarely recline it) and as they slant ,they fire the music striaght at my head height . I point the speakers towards my ears ,maybe just past towards the back of my head , but I am forever tweeking them so they are pointing across my nose as well !!
Cant make my mind up wether to set them further away or what really ! But when the right track is on ,it bears no relation to headphones and is sweet as ever !! Maybe it depends on my mood and the volume ?
I have an old Rel Q50 sub in the corner of the room to my left ,and it does put some body into the whold thing , but there are times I prefer just to hear the treble in all its clarity .
Its all low budget ,but still makes sense in the scheme of things !! :)
i have to due to room layout,it works for me,cant say ive noticed any downsides,i get a lovely centered soundstage.Second this
paulf-2007
31-07-2019, 20:51
I was suggesting that if your speakers were for sale, hiding that fact at the end of your signature isn't likely to attract much attention :)as I haven't found an easy way to post photos since photobucket went stupid, I haven't been able to post a for sale on here. They have been for sale on lenco heaven. Probably as well not to attract attention here as for sales without photos get pulled anyway.
Easy way to post photos:
https://imgur.com/upload - once you've dragged or browsed and uploaded the photo, just copy the link, come back to AoS and click the "insert image" button, (hover over them if it's not obvious) paste the link and you're done.
An interesting discussion . I have a modest Yamaha AS 500 amp ,with Tannoy dual concentric speakers , and I have ended up with them on a slanted foam matting on a parquay floor .
They sit about 8ft away from the central point of my listening reclining chair , where my head is (I rarely recline it) and as they slant ,they fire the music striaght at my head height . I point the speakers towards my ears ,maybe just past towards the back of my head , but I am forever tweeking them so they are pointing across my nose as well !!
Cant make my mind up wether to set them further away or what really ! But when the right track is on ,it bears no relation to headphones and is sweet as ever !! Maybe it depends on my mood and the volume ?
I have an old Rel Q50 sub in the corner of the room to my left ,and it does put some body into the whold thing , but there are times I prefer just to hear the treble in all its clarity .
Its all low budget ,but still makes sense in the scheme of things !! :)
Some interesting aspects Anto.
My speakers are 10ft away, 13ft apart, and the business of whether to have them crossing in front or behind the head is a hard one for me, and us all to an extent I suspect. Directly at them of course gives extra top - on axis tweeters.
Personally I do not like phones for listening, but they are very good for analysing, speakers at least give a portrayal in front of the listener which is to me more realistic.
My speakers are 9' apart (centre to centre) and 15' from my listening position. The speakers are located about 1/3 of the length of the room: 33' long by 11' wide. They are angled so the front of the speakers face me and the listening axis cross at my chair at ear level.
I have no idea if this setup constitutes near-, mid-, or far-field listening (the definition of near-, or far-field in speakers appears to be quite different from that used in antenna theory), but I'm quite satisfied with the arrangement. An arrangement I've been using for 40 years.
Near field I think is defined as the distance you would be listening from the bridge monitors if sat at a typical recording console. So I'd say about 5 feet or less is near-field.
richard51
01-08-2019, 21:37
I listen nearfield 3 feet 1/2 or at little more than 6 feet also in a little almost square room of 11 feet with the same height...The mission Cyrus 781 speakers are on my desk with the Starting Point Systems dac and the Sansui AU 7700 amplifier between (isolated of one another).
I must say that I enjoyed these 2 listening positions because they are completely different in the result. Nearfield is like listening to headphones but like with the best headphones there is in the world or near like that...At 6 feet or little more, there is less details but more space in between... In the 2 positions I enjoyed holographic imaging very much more detailed nearfield, more spatialized with more detailed bass at 6 feet 1/2... Headphones cannot compete with these 2 positions even the better one...
But my room is treated, not perfectly tough with my ears for measure instrument, and I use 4 low cost :)Schumann Generators modified, and many Helmholtz bottles I made myself... I also used other tweaks with stones and crystals...All that make an astounding difference and transform mid-fi vintage gear in almost a TOTL one... People often ignores that room treatment, cleaning the electrical grid of the house, and controlling vibrations is the KEY to heaven, not the price paid for a product...:)
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