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View Full Version : Audio Grail 301, Bob Cusworth plinth & Graham Phantom Elite ...a glimpse



WESTLOWER
09-07-2019, 13:32
I had the unique opportunity to glimpse at the possibilities of the Garrard 301, a very well designed and built plinth and a top end Tonearm can offer.

After a friendly and informative discussion with Mik at Unique Audio on the qualities and limitations of various Turntable combinations, especially the Garrards, he unexpectedly and very kindly offered to loan me a very well thought out combination for a play.

Well, ...What’s a man to do with such a delicious offering!!

The combination consisted of a beautiful Garrard 301, completely restored and reworked
by Audio Grail. The Garrard 301 Turntable Audio Grail Special Edition 'Pearl Signature'.
Pearl signature I hear you ask?, well the paint work is pretty, real pretty. It's finished in White Pearlescent paint, which gives a very subtle pink pearl hallo.

The internals have been completely reworked to optimal performance and feature
stripped and replated linkage new idler wheel, new bushes, a new speed disk and a new over size heavier platter and much more.
I have to say, visually it really is a beautiful thing.

The Audio Grail 301 was mounted into an RJC Audio, Bob Cusworth plinth.
These custom made plinths use a special composite resin material to damp and reduce vibrations. I cut the following info from a 'Wam' thread on these plinths as much of this stuff is word of mouth and contacts, in fact I couldn’t find a current website for RJC plinths.

“The resin composite top plates are housed in a solid timber frame and a stainless steel arm pod is located within the plinth on an isolated heavy sub plinth. Another feature of this plinth is the decoupling of the motor from the Garrard top plate. The motor is mounted within a second high mass sub frame, which is an assembly of cast resin and resinated Bamboo”

Hence to say again a beautiful furniture finish product that would be the proud centre of attention in the smartest living rooms.

The tonearm was a very special Platinum rewired (a special Unique Audio custom)
12" Graham Phantom Elite, utilising a variation of the Unipivot approach.

Hanging out the bottom of the Graham Phantom Elite was a rather substantial LFD tonearm phono cable, The ‘Silver Scorpion’.

So as you can see I was in rather high brow company, which admittedly made me a little nervous. ;)

Really, I think the purpose in this rambling post was how this stuff changed a couple of preconceived views I had managed to gather.

The first for me was that a high mass wood plinth housing a vintage idler would all sound the same. They 'should' all be comparatively inexpensive, basic things, besides, you can pick one up on ebay from Moldova, for a couple of hundred pounds + shipping!

What first strikes you when handling a RJC Audio, Bob Cusworth plinth is the sheer weight. It’s ridiculously heavy in comparison to other wooden plinths for the Garrards.
It is beautifully constructed and has a sense of real quality to it. The finish and fit is just top draw. It’s in a totally different universe to the other plinths I have had contact with
and, it should be, as it's approaching 8-10 x times the cost of most.

But this wasn't an exercise to see how cheaply an Idler and plinth could be assembled
or indeed a Garrard could be made playable by a quick home fettle and some new oil.

This was the other end of the spectrum, to see what finely crafted products, carefully selected and put together to compliment each other, could sound like.

I admit, it’s hard to tell which component has the greater impact in such a combo, but I suspect they all do equally, as you know, it ALL matters.

I won’t try and explain what the sound was or wasn’t, but overall it was sheer quality. It had the drive and grace the Garrards posses and much more. It wasn't dull or too dark.
The arm is obviously top notch and dug detail and pace from the records, even though the cartridge used (mine, a Cartridge Man Music Master LE) could possibly be considered the weaker link in the chain.

To encapsulate the feeling and music this combination produced into words is pretty impossible / ridiculous.

But I felt very lucky to peek into a world that frankly is well past my station price wise..
Although, I must say, the Audio Grail 301 offers superb value if one was keeping a turntable for life, IMHO.

The Graham Phantom Elite Tonearm is just fantasy stuff for me, but it’s engineering and design is something to marvel at. Fantastic

The RJC Audio, Bob Cusworth plinth, I’ll stick my head out here, I’d say is a relative good value product. unfortunately such quality, R&D and raw materials costs..and if I had the dough..I thinks I would!

It was a pleasure to have it all in my living room for a few days.
Cheers Mik, you are a gentleman sir.

https://i.imgur.com/tsbISJ3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wKZsLiM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CHf41ew.jpg

Ali Tait
09-07-2019, 14:06
Beautiful. Just beautiful.

struth
09-07-2019, 14:15
yeah, georgous workmanship. top drawer

Vrajbasi
09-07-2019, 14:18
What lovely write well deserved write up, I own a audio grail 301 in a Rjc plinth and while not cheap it gives me the most complete garrard experience I have heard. The combination has a level of drive and information retrieval that is wonderful. I also own a graham phantom elite which to my ears is way way above any of the previous Graham tonearms and the 12" is by far my most preferred arm wand. I have heard the platinum version that is Unique to Unique Audio it is wonderful it has a greater sence of weight and scale but the whole midrange is much more enveloped than the standard version the difference is huge.

rmcin626
09-07-2019, 14:22
Lovely looking turntable, could be tempted to buy one of those although probably over my budget.

mikeyb
09-07-2019, 14:29
Lovely looking turntable, could be tempted to buy one of those although probably over my budget. £10,000 just for the arm [emoji23]

rmcin626
09-07-2019, 14:36
£10,000 just for the arm [emoji23]

Just a wee bit over my current budget Mike

WESTLOWER
09-07-2019, 14:44
£10,000 just for the arm [emoji23]

If you could find a Platinum wired Phantom Elite for £10K buy it!
This one is a fair bit more. But as I said in the post it was an exercise in what’s possible if funds allowed.
If it floats your boat.
I wasn’t advocating one sells the house and the kids to fund it, however tempting that may be!

Alex_UK
09-07-2019, 14:50
Wow, looks lovely, can only imagine what it must sound like and would also be a tactile joy I would think.


I wasn’t advocating one sells the house and the kids to fund it, however tempting that may be!

Two in my avatar - very well behaved - offers by PM please! ;)

mikeyb
09-07-2019, 14:59
If you could find a Platinum wired Phantom Elite for £10K buy it!
This one is a fair bit more. But as I said in the post it was an exercise in what’s possible if funds allowed.
If it floats your boat.
I wasn’t advocating one sells the house and the kids to fund it, however tempting that may be!Never noticed the Platinum bit [emoji23]

mikeyb
09-07-2019, 15:00
Bit of overkill for charity finds you think?

Vrajbasi
09-07-2019, 15:16
A standard 12" elite is around £12300 plus arm cable £11450 for 9"

https://www.analogueseduction.net/tonearms/graham-engineering-phantom-elite-tonearm.html

rmcin626
09-07-2019, 15:21
A standard 12" elite is around £12300 plus arm cable £11450 for 9"

https://www.analogueseduction.net/tonearms/graham-engineering-phantom-elite-tonearm.html

Would need a Lotto win to justify that kind of purchase

crimsondonkey
09-07-2019, 15:33
Very very nice turntable.

AJSki2fly
09-07-2019, 15:43
A truly stunning TT and arm, and I bet it sounded glorious.

Vrajbasi
09-07-2019, 17:34
This thread has got me going, just come come of the phone been speaking to Mik at Unique Audio. I am going to borrow the platinum 12" wand to try on my elite am tempted to go for it. I would also like to listen to the latest cutsworth plinth as there are meant to be various improvements made to the motor and arm mounts. The other thing I noticed having had two is that they do not all sound the same due to each plinth using different timber.

WESTLOWER
09-07-2019, 18:31
Yes it’s remarkable how much great hifi has variations on individual pieces of the same model.
I know tonearms and amplifiers especially so.

montesquieu
09-07-2019, 19:22
Twas a gorgeous thing, I got to hear it too in Adam's brief tenure. The attention to detail on the plinth was really something and it's got me thinking too. (I'm sure Bob C must have a TD124 design or two up his sleeve.) The AG 301 too was a lovely thing, minty mint as a minty thing, considering it's probably older than me.

However ... and maybe heretical to say this in present company ... but to my ears at least, and with my music, it still sounded like a 301 ... solid and huge but a bit dark. On balance I prefer the sound of a well-sorted TD124 (like mine, you could say ...), which may be a little less massive in the bass (obviously system dependent what you prefer here), but comes across as a little more expressive in the mids and with a touch more sparkle and, indeed, better separation of layers of musical information up top. For me, all things considered, the TD124 has a better-proportioned sound.

The visual and tactile aspects of this beast were in a different category though. Much pleasure from ownership I'm sure and a monster for rock and pop I suspect.

Wakefield Turntables
09-07-2019, 19:42
I think I got quoted £3K for a plinth last time I spoke to Bob.

montesquieu
09-07-2019, 19:44
I think I got quoted £3K for a plinth last time I spoke to Bob.

From seeing this thing close up, worth every penny I'd say.

Vrajbasi
09-07-2019, 20:02
I think I got quoted £3K for a plinth last time I spoke to Bob.

Last time I enquired I was told different prices depending on timber used, and if one wanted a simplified version without the metal work using wood instead. The top ones like this were in the region of 5 to 6k I think starting at £3k. The options of timber seemed endless.

Spectral Morn
09-07-2019, 20:09
Its made of wood, and resin, its well made but it is a £1500 item, not 3000 or 6000 thats unjustifiable imho.

Vrajbasi
09-07-2019, 20:11
Its made of wood, and resin, its well made but it is a £1500 item, not 3000 or 6000 thats unjustifiable imho.

Find someone to make me one to that leval of finish I will give you 2k so you get a £500 drink out of it. Its certainly not cheap but neither is it expensive for that leval of craftsmanship, imagine each plinth has 250 plus hours of skilled labour that goes into it. The seeing the thing in the flesh is a thing is a real eye opener, the attention to detail is simply stunning. Sme are going to charge a whopping 20k for there rebuilt 301 and plinth to be honest this is simply in another class. There are wonderful plinths one can buy for from 300 to 1000 but this is truly special. How does one justify £30k for the shindo 301 well some obviously do I know which offers better vfm and incredible performance.

Spectral Morn
09-07-2019, 20:17
Find someone to make me one to that leval of finish I will give you 2k so you get a £500 drink out of it.

Nari I know you have seen one, but I think its over priced. I get it that some rare woods can be rare and expensive. But bar that the plinth should be doable for much less money imho.

WESTLOWER
09-07-2019, 20:20
Its made of wood, and resin, its well made but it is a £1500 item, not 3000 or 6000 thats unjustifiable imho.

Sorry
I too thought that until I saw what this thing actually is
If I had the dough. I would. It’s worth it. Imho
It’s unlike the other plinths that put these preconceived values in the head

Vrajbasi
09-07-2019, 20:30
Niel I get your point but say £5k for the dearer plinths with 250 say skilled man hours thats like 20 a hour not taking into account materials for a skilled craftsmen its hardly worth bothering with. If sme were to even to consider a plinth like this it would be four times the price at least.

Spectral Morn
09-07-2019, 20:49
Niel I get your point but say £5k for the dearer plinths with 250 say skilled man hours thats like 20 a hour not taking into account materials for a skilled craftsmen its hardly worth bothering with. If sme were to even to consider a plinth like this it would be four times the price at least.

SME prices these days are a rip off, so that would not surprise me.

There is no way that takes 250 hours to make, its a plinth, not a fighter jet. I am not convinced, sorry. Maybe seeing one, and getting the inside track on what is in it, how its made, might change my mind a little, but at the minute I just can't see it.

Vrajbasi
09-07-2019, 21:35
SME prices these days are a rip off, so that would not surprise me.

There is no way that takes 250 hours to make, its a plinth, not a fighter jet. I am not convinced, sorry. Maybe seeing one, and getting the inside track on what is in it, how its made, might change my mind a little, but at the minute I just can't see it.

Exactly seeing one in the flesh and hearing one makes all the difference.

montesquieu
09-07-2019, 22:07
Sorry
I too thought that until I saw what this thing actually is
If I had the dough. I would. It’s worth it. Imho
It’s unlike the other plinths that put these preconceived values in the head

I have to say I agree here and I'm a bit of a tight git about these sorts of things that are at least on the surface more visual than auditory.

A.Grail
09-07-2019, 22:46
Interesting thread. A few notes re the Cuswoth plinth.

The resin is mixed and molded by RJC, drying times, tooling etc have all been arrived at by experimentation and testing - This caries with it a cost and a value. Similarly the metal work (Multi piece metal motor cage detachment device is precision made and isolated on it's own platform, as is the arm pod and bevel - Both have taken a great deal of time / expertise to create (The pod and bevel are made bespoke for your arm of choice.)
All woods are hand selected and again bespoke to the clients choice (As is the physical design), these are not thin or iron on veneers but saw cut solid pieces.
There is also: the material selection (Bob travels far and wide for his fetish!) Measuring / fitting / flatting and painstaking finishing to consider. As noted above 200 hrs at £20 an hr (Many trade carpenters are on more than this) would be be £4K. Of course this would not account for materials, years of specialist expertise, previous expenses in R&D, tooling, lengthy consultations, relationships with suppliers or indeed brand reputation (In this case well earned IMHO). £4K is a lot of money certainly, for something as unique and bespoke executed to this level I believe they are wonderful looking and sounding things.

https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/Decorated%20images/Cusworth%201%20copy.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/Decorated%20images/Cusworth%201%20copy.jpg.html)

WESTLOWER
09-07-2019, 23:38
[/QUOTE]
https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/Decorated%20images/Cusworth%201%20copy.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/Decorated%20images/Cusworth%201%20copy.jpg.html)[/QUOTE]

Thanks Matt for offering more information on Bob’s process.
And Oh My!!, that has to be the finest, most stunning looking piece of Audio equipment I’ve ever
Seen. Just beautiful.

oldius
10-07-2019, 07:40
It is all beautiful gear and the argument about price is inconsequential: if you think it is too expensive, don't buy it.

A.Grail
10-07-2019, 07:50
If you look at the curves you can note the solid wood it would not be possible to achieve this look with veneers (Too thin)

https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/Decorated%20images/Cusworth.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/Decorated%20images/Cusworth.jpg.html)

antonio
10-07-2019, 07:50
Three stunning looking turntables, mmm, which one should I buy? :scratch:

mikeyb
10-07-2019, 08:17
It is all beautiful gear and the argument about price is inconsequential: if you think it is too expensive, don't buy it.Just thought I'd post the cost of the arm out of interest, couldn't care less how much it cost, when it's a hobby the skies the limit money wise [emoji6]

Be good to know the total cost of the TT in question.

smangus
10-07-2019, 09:53
Three stunning looking turntables, mmm, which one should I buy? :scratch:All of them [emoji846]

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Vrajbasi
10-07-2019, 20:59
https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/Decorated%20images/Cusworth%201%20copy.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/Decorated%20images/Cusworth%201%20copy.jpg.html)[/QUOTE]

Thanks Matt for offering more information on Bob’s process.
And Oh My!!, that has to be the finest, most stunning looking piece of Audio equipment I’ve ever
Seen. Just beautiful.[/QUOTE]

It is indeed a thing of beauty, what I love is each plinth turntable combo has there Unique identity, each one has its own charm. By far the most beautiful and musical way to enjoy a Garrard 301, I would love to see a 401 in a Rjc plinth not sure if its been done. I have seen the stunning Garrard drd 5 in the most amazing plinth at my dealer friends place.

A.Grail
11-07-2019, 06:43
https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/Decorated%20images/Cusworth%201%20copy.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/Decorated%20images/Cusworth%201%20copy.jpg.html)

Thanks Matt for offering more information on Bob’s process.

"I have seen the stunning Garrard drd 5 in the most amazing plinth at my dealer friends place."

Indeed his BBC DRD 5 was a very special unit and a hard one to let go but it rests in rather good company! I agree - The Cusworth plinth for the DRD 5 is fantastic

https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/Decorated%20images/MIKS.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/Decorated%20images/MIKS.jpg.html)

Vrajbasi
11-07-2019, 09:01
Thanks Matt for offering more information on Bob’s process.

"I have seen the stunning Garrard drd 5 in the most amazing plinth at my dealer friends place."

Indeed his BBC DRD 5 was a very special unit and a hard one to let go but it rests in rather good company! I agree - The Cusworth plinth for the DRD 5 is fantastic

https://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f298/furylovelolly/Decorated%20images/MIKS.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/furylovelolly/media/Decorated%20images/MIKS.jpg.html)

I love the drd5 the rarest of the lot,I was told that this particular turntable was used by radio one. Its does sound rather amazing I have to say. Its does sit in rather fine company and is well treasured, I have tried to purchase it on several occasions.

Barry
12-07-2019, 17:14
Twas a gorgeous thing, I got to hear it too in Adam's brief tenure. The attention to detail on the plinth was really something and it's got me thinking too. (I'm sure Bob C must have a TD124 design or two up his sleeve.) The AG 301 too was a lovely thing, minty mint as a minty thing, considering it's probably older than me.

However ... and maybe heretical to say this in present company ... but to my ears at least, and with my music, it still sounded like a 301 ... solid and huge but a bit dark. On balance I prefer the sound of a well-sorted TD124 (like mine, you could say ...), which may be a little less massive in the bass (obviously system dependent what you prefer here), but comes across as a little more expressive in the mids and with a touch more sparkle and, indeed, better separation of layers of musical information up top. For me, all things considered, the TD124 has a better-proportioned sound.

The visual and tactile aspects of this beast were in a different category though. Much pleasure from ownership I'm sure and a monster for rock and pop I suspect.

My feelings and experience tally with yours Tom. Bought my first TD124/II back in 1970 and still use it to this day (after a couple of belt changes, new 'mushrooms' and a re-lube and oil).

Clive
12-07-2019, 19:53
My feeling is that a 301 with a modern bearing...I mean a totally new higher precision bearing... manages to remove some of the bass bloom and add some HF but still has power and drive. Maybe such a 301 gets closer to perfection.

Vrajbasi
13-07-2019, 16:47
My feeling is that a 301 with a modern bearing...I mean a totally new higher precision bearing... manages to remove some of the bass bloom and add some HF but still has power and drive. Maybe such a 301 gets closer to perfection.

My feeling is that a garrard 301 and thorens td124 being both lovely turntables are a long way from perfection, however they can still provide a great deal of pleasure and pride of ownership especially with the likes of Audio Grail, rjc and in the thorens case schopper. Luckily such companies exist

Barry
13-07-2019, 18:41
All current audio gear is a long way from perfection. This is especially so for electromechanical transducers. Spending vast amounts of money on gear will not buy you a big improvement in performance. A visit to any audio show will demonstrate how poor the value for money most audio gear is, and an attendance of any unamplified acoustic performance will reveal how far we are from reproducing a convincing illusion of this in our own home.

Patrick Dixon
13-07-2019, 18:46
I'm sure all my turntables are a long way from perfection, but I really enjoy my TD124/2 both musically and because it's nice and compact and easy to use.

I also have a grease bearing 301 that has been restored by CTC but it's still in its box waiting for me to get around to sorting out a plinth. I did think about a Cusworth plinth at one point, but I'm not sure it's the look I'm after and I'm not sure I want anything quite that big. A 301 plinth is never going to be as neat as a TD124's, and if you allow for a 12" arm it's going to be fairly huge; if I want fairly huge I always have my EMT 927 to fall back on. I would quite like to hear something like a TW Acustic or SME turntable in my system just for reference though - just to hear how quiet a turntable really could be.

thingfish
13-07-2019, 20:06
No amount of money can by you perfection.......

Now this little lot (above) must have cost a fortune in the pursuit.

My System Micro Seiki 8000mk2 Kondo special V12 Tiger Eye, Fidelity Research FR 66 Shindo spu, Kronos Pro Axiom 12" tonearm Etsuro Bordeaux, EMT 927, Sme Model 30/12 gold, Graham Phantom Elite Top wing Dalby stabiliser or Thales Simplicity 2, Shindo Garrard 301 complete system. sme 3012r shindo spu. Morsiani tonearm, Fidelity research fr66, Sme 3012 mk1, Sme V, Ikeda 407 IT Sme Model 30/2/Dynavector 507 Kodo Beat Turntable Airtangent 10B modified Fidelity fr66s Etsuro Cartridge . Kondo Gakuoh Mk1 powers G70 Pre,Audio Tekne TFA-8695PCS pre Audio Tekne TEA 8695 Phono. Lfd Battery Phono Stage heavily custom rebuilt by Dr Richard Bews, Tharx Phono Stage. Lfd Master Dual Biamp power amp, Lfd Anniversary master preamp. Shindo Latour Field Coil. Rockport Cygnus Biamped, Voigt Domestic Corner Horns/ Feastex Fildcoils. LFD Custom silver Ribbons. LFD Diamond Vipor Mk2 interconnects, Lfd Golden Cobra interconnect. Koetsu blue lace mono special order, Koetsu burma jade mono special order.

Seriously is it any closer perfection than my reasonably humble....

Marantz CD-73, Rothwell Indus Preamp, STA-25 Poweramp, Falcon Acoustic LS3/5As Speakers.

?

Barry
13-07-2019, 20:52
I'm sure all my turntables are a long way from perfection, but I really enjoy my TD124/2 both musically and because it's nice and compact and easy to use.

I also have a grease bearing 301 that has been restored by CTC but it's still in its box waiting for me to get around to sorting out a plinth. I did think about a Cusworth plinth at one point, but I'm not sure it's the look I'm after and I'm not sure I want anything quite that big. A 301 plinth is never going to be as neat as a TD124's, and if you allow for a 12" arm it's going to be fairly huge; if I want fairly huge I always have my EMT 927 to fall back on. I would quite like to hear something like a TW Acustic or SME turntable in my system just for reference though - just to hear how quiet a turntable really could be.

I'm in agreement with you here. I have three TD124/IIs - not because they are perfect, they are not, but then no TT is. IMO the whole of vinyl playback is hopelessly flawed. I have the TTs because they are very good at what they do, and I have a big investment in vinyl, as well as an interest in vinyl playback; amusing myself trying out various arm/cartridge combinations One deck is fitted with a 9" arm (either an SME, a Breuer or an Infinity 'Black Widow', depending on cartridge used), the other two are fitted with longer arms (Brinkmann 10.5, SME 12"s or an Ortofon 309i, again depending on cartridge used).

I do have a EMT 930, but that is little used these days owing to the unsophisticated arm it is fitted with (the EMT 929), and I have yet to get around to replacing it. It does however show a failing many DDs display: that of low torque - which to my mind is essential to impart a true sense of 'drive' and timing to the music. Curiously, this concept of "PRaT" was a big aspect of the Linn mantra of the bad old days in the '80s, yet their belt drive TTs displayed the worse aspects of inconsistent timing. I had the long term use of one in the '80s, and was able to compare it (fitted with the sane arm and cartridge) with my 124/II over a period of time. I heard nothing to persuade me to change from the Thorens.

montesquieu
13-07-2019, 22:48
No amount of money can by you perfection.......

Now this little lot (above) must have cost a fortune in the pursuit.

My System Micro Seiki 8000mk2 Kondo special V12 Tiger Eye, Fidelity Research FR 66 Shindo spu, Kronos Pro Axiom 12" tonearm Etsuro Bordeaux, EMT 927, Sme Model 30/12 gold, Graham Phantom Elite Top wing Dalby stabiliser or Thales Simplicity 2, Shindo Garrard 301 complete system. sme 3012r shindo spu. Morsiani tonearm, Fidelity research fr66, Sme 3012 mk1, Sme V, Ikeda 407 IT Sme Model 30/2/Dynavector 507 Kodo Beat Turntable Airtangent 10B modified Fidelity fr66s Etsuro Cartridge . Kondo Gakuoh Mk1 powers G70 Pre,Audio Tekne TFA-8695PCS pre Audio Tekne TEA 8695 Phono. Lfd Battery Phono Stage heavily custom rebuilt by Dr Richard Bews, Tharx Phono Stage. Lfd Master Dual Biamp power amp, Lfd Anniversary master preamp. Shindo Latour Field Coil. Rockport Cygnus Biamped, Voigt Domestic Corner Horns/ Feastex Fildcoils. LFD Custom silver Ribbons. LFD Diamond Vipor Mk2 interconnects, Lfd Golden Cobra interconnect. Koetsu blue lace mono special order, Koetsu burma jade mono special order.

Seriously is it any closer perfection than my reasonably humble....

Marantz CD-73, Rothwell Indus Preamp, STA-25 Poweramp, Falcon Acoustic LS3/5As Speakers.

?


I’m afraid, having heard some of the above (not all, unfortunately) the answer is a resounding ‘yes’. The true high end if integrated sympathetically and successfully can give absolutely transcendent results.

Perfection though is the wrong goal. We have all enjoyed music on much humbler systems, as indeed I’m sure we have also heard expensive ones that failed to communicate. Enjoyment is the key.

But if someone has gone the extra mile to put a high end system together then the response should at least be one of curiosity, not a knee jerk response to to diss it.

Barry
13-07-2019, 23:18
I’m afraid, having heard some of the above (not all, unfortunately) the answer is a resounding ‘yes’. The true high end if integrated sympathetically and successfully can give absolutely transcendent results.

Perfection though is the wrong goal. We have all enjoyed music on much humbler systems, as indeed I’m sure we have also heard expensive ones that failed to communicate. Enjoyment is the key.

But if someone has gone the extra mile to put a high end system together then the response should at least be one of curiosity, not a knee jerk response to to diss it.

True - we have all heard something on a simple transistor radio that has caused us to stop in our tracks and marvel. Likewise we have equally heard something played through a "humble" system that does the same; yet I too have heard systems that have cost astronomical amounts to buy that have left me cold and unimpressed.

There is nothing wrong with spending a lot of money on audio gear (I have done the same with camera equipment, wine and with travel), the question is with those who simply wish to impress by "willy waving" and yet are incapable of articulating exactly how their expensive purchases are an improvement over the usual.

WESTLOWER
14-07-2019, 09:24
Monty, one can put together a megabuck system, whatever yanks their crank, hell even list it all in they're signature, if they feel the need to wave the willy.

But my response will remain one of laughter.:lol::cool:

That sort of insulting response is probably one reason why knowledgable, experienced helpful members on AoS stop posting!

So someone who lists his well put together system is willy waving?
I for one enjoy seeing equipment lists and interesting equipment at that.
The members who put these systems together are generally very helpful with their experiences.

I just don’t understand the willy waving dig!

User211
14-07-2019, 09:40
I personally think Artisan Fidelity do a much better job at matching plinth aesthetics to the actual decks.

Bob's efforts always look like a huge visual mismatch to me. Just my eyes and opinion.

Bob's stuff is obviously great quality from the remarks and beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc.

Generally I think most turntables look very awkward and there are very few designs that appeal to me visually.

Patrick Dixon
14-07-2019, 09:45
I just don’t understand the willy waving dig!
Me neither. It's always interesting to see what equipment people own/have owned because it gives some context to their opinions.

I love vinyl (a) because I grew up with it and (b) because it's utter madness to decode a stamped bit of flimsy plastic by tracking a groove with a microscopic diamond, and yet the results can be unbelievably good.

JohnG
14-07-2019, 11:35
I have read this thread and being a prudent type of individual, I have had a look around at Plinths Designs Available, to my surprise in that search, I stumbled on this offering.
A Plinth and 301 for a very fair asking price.
How much more one would need to spend to have a complete functioning set up, will vary, but the option to have a 301 in a bespoke plinth, with known Tonearm/ Deck//Plinth coupling issues designed to have diminishing effects is available for a reasonable price, when compared to the market in general.
The plinth builder selling the 301 in the link knows his stuff, and I would say his work will be on par or even surpass any designs produced as a laminated construction.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264290008793

Spectral Morn
14-07-2019, 11:41
I have read this thread and being a prudent type of individual, I have had a look around at Plinths Designs Available, to my surprise in that search, I stumbled on this offering.
A Plinth and 301 for a very fair asking price.
How much more one would need to spend to have a complete functioning set up, will vary, but the option to have a 301 in a bespoke plinth, with known Tonearm/ Deck//Plinth coupling issues designed to have diminishing effects is available for a reasonable price, when compared to the market in general.
The plinth builder selling the 301 in the link knows his stuff, and I would say his work will be on par or even surpass any designs produced as a laminated construction.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264290008793

I have had this members work suggested to me as a possible solution to my wanting to try another plinth type for my 401, but they don't seem to advertise that they freely do such for others, so I haven't messaged them. I don't want to put them in an awkward spot, re having to say no.

Got to say recently I feel like I bought the wrong Garrard as there have been more offerings for 301s re plinths on Ebay than 401s. I am not in any rush though.

I think one of the biggest issues here is there is no solid consensus regarding the best plinth. Got to say originally that lack of consensus paralysed my making a decision for a fair bit.

WESTLOWER
14-07-2019, 12:44
I have had this members work suggested to me as a possible solution to my wanting to try another plinth type for my 401, but they don't seem to advertise that they freely do such for others, so I haven't messaged them. I don't want to put them in an awkward spot, re having to say no.

Got to say recently I feel like I bought the wrong Garrard as there have been more offerings for 301s re plinths on Ebay than 401s. I am not in any rush though.

I think one of the biggest issues here is there is no solid consensus regarding the best plinth. Got to say originally that lack of consensus paralysed my making a decision for a fair bit.

I think there’s been some pretty clear impressions on the plinth and 301 combos
Imho the Cusworth is the clear winner from the plinths I’ve heard with this TT
But that choice tends to get shot down in flames as it’s perceived as the expensive choice..

JohnG
14-07-2019, 13:24
I owned a Garrard 401 until a few years ago.
It had a Martin Bastin Upgraded Bearing put into it in the late 90's.
The Plinth that it ended up in was a 9 Stone / 60Kg Granite Monolith Stump.
When moving it was required, it was the most strenuous of logistics.
It was a young mans sport for sure.
My advice is to choose something that is quite manageable, 20Kg is about the max I would consider, as a result
I have looked at different Plinth materials and the design/construction theories associated.
The function is more important than the aesthetics, but if a material is chosen that can be worked with using standard type tools, a good surface can be produced to receive a coating/covering for the trialed and to be kept finished item.
In the past few years I have been visiting events with my kit, so have a sack barrow for the Full Range 3 Way speakers as well as the Monoblock Power Supplies, and just putting loading/unloading these into a vehicle, can be a trial, I place a importance on overall weight now, much more so than when I was a young mule .

DiveDeepDog
14-07-2019, 17:20
I have had this members work suggested to me as a possible solution to my wanting to try another plinth type for my 401, but they don't seem to advertise that they freely do such for others, so I haven't messaged them. I don't want to put them in an awkward spot, re having to say no.

Got to say recently I feel like I bought the wrong Garrard as there have been more offerings for 301s re plinths on Ebay than 401s. I am not in any rush though.

I think one of the biggest issues here is there is no solid consensus regarding the best plinth. Got to say originally that lack of consensus paralysed my making a decision for a fair bit.

I'm happy to admit the Cusworth plinths are another level but also some of the insights Mat has discussed its not just the plinth.
I'm constrained by very small workspace so I stick to what I know I can achieve to a decent level. So thats layered plinth Fench polished in my kitchen. I like to add a bit of interest with the shape, but ultimately do whatever the buyer wants.

I don't advertise as I'm not commercial, they take a long time to complete and I prefer to deliver a setup, apart form that I welcome enquiries :-)

Vrajbasi
14-07-2019, 20:26
I am humbly sorry if some see my list of equiptment as willy waving, I personally enjoy answering private mail, I get from aos members regularly asking some advise on a little I have learnt over the past 40 years of playing with this gear and share whatever little knowledge I have. I have enjoyed meeting and hearing from many interesting enthusiasts and during my short time have seen many systems vastly progress at whatever price level they may be at.

I see it as a fun hobby and enjoy listening to systems that cost a couple of thousands as much as ones cost hundreds of thousands. I always am amazed by some of the participants on aos who are continuing the quest whatever the budget maybe. I could name a few but i wont but we have people on here who have spent years and years listening and ended up with wonderful systems within there price points and really pushed them self and sacrificed other monetary commitments at the end of the day none of us need any of this stuff we purchase out of passion .

WESTLOWER
14-07-2019, 20:35
I am humbly sorry if some see my list of equiptment as willy waving, I personally enjoy answering private mail, I get from aos members regularly asking some advise on a little I have learnt over the past 40 years of playing with this gear and share whatever little knowledge I have. I have enjoyed meeting and hearing from many interesting enthusiasts and during my short time have seen many systems vastly progress at whatever price level they may be at.



I see it as a fun hobby and enjoy listening to systems that cost a couple of thousands as much as ones cost hundreds of thousands. I always am amazed by some of the participants on aos who are continuing the quest whatever the budget maybe. I could name a few but i wont but we have people on here who have spent years and years listening and ended up with wonderful systems within there price points and really pushed them self and sacrificed other monetary commitments at the end of the day none of us need any of this stuff we purchase out of passion .

Nari you don’t have to justify or explain anything.
The willy waving dig was just nasty

Vrajbasi
14-07-2019, 20:35
Me neither. It's always interesting to see what equipment people own/have owned because it gives some context to their opinions.

I love vinyl (a) because I grew up with it and (b) because it's utter madness to decode a stamped bit of flimsy plastic by tracking a groove with a microscopic diamond, and yet the results can be unbelievably good.

I am always amazed how much can be retrieved from the black plastic and is a lot of fun experimenting and sometimes obtaining wonderful results.

Vrajbasi
14-07-2019, 20:36
Nari you don’t have to justify or explain anything.
The willy waving dig was just nasty

Thank you adam and tom you are both gentlemen.

Alex_UK
14-07-2019, 20:48
I am humbly sorry if some see my list of equiptment as willy waving, I personally enjoy answering private mail, I get from aos members regularly asking some advise on a little I have learnt over the past 40 years of playing with this gear and share whatever little knowledge I have. I have enjoyed meeting and hearing from many interesting enthusiasts and during my short time have seen many systems vastly progress at whatever price level they may be at.

I see it as a fun hobby and enjoy listening to systems that cost a couple of thousands as much as ones cost hundreds of thousands. I always am amazed by some of the participants on aos who are continuing the quest whatever the budget maybe. I could name a few but i wont but we have people on here who have spent years and years listening and ended up with wonderful systems within there price points and really pushed them self and sacrificed other monetary commitments at the end of the day none of us need any of this stuff we purchase out of passion .

Nari (and others), please try and ignore the (now deleted) "willy waving" dig and which is being dealt with. As always, please use the "Report Post" button if anyone sees an objectionable post before the mods do.

For me personally equipment listed in signatures is informative and helpful to discussions as has already been said, and I expect agreed with by the vast majority of contributors, so no need for anyone to apologise for it!

smangus
14-07-2019, 21:11
I enjoy reading about and looking at gear I could never afford. Means I can dream a little [emoji846]. Everyone has their price level they have to live with but i guarantee that whatever that level is they enjoy their music.

The ww comment was just envy inspired really imo.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Vrajbasi
15-07-2019, 17:51
Not meaning to bang on I feel this thread took the normal forum turn, a very good dealer friend of chooses out of real kindness to lend around £30000 worth of turntable that I kind of instigated not expecting any financial gain at all, but just for a lovely member on AOS who contacted me to listen and hear what is capable out of the good old 301, the member in question was so so thrilled he chose to share his experiences on what he heard. Instead of people taking note and interest a few chose to go of the tangent and criticise just because of price, even a member who is not too keen on the 301 commented how wonderful the turntable was after hearing it, even tough not to his absolute personal liking.

It just shows how good intentions can turn sour hey ho onwards and upwards.

Spectral Morn
15-07-2019, 18:39
Not meaning to bang on I feel this thread took the normal forum turn, a very good dealer friend of chooses out of real kindness to lend around £30000 worth of turntable that I kind of instigated not expecting any financial gain at all, but just for a lovely member on AOS who contacted me to listen and hear what is capable out of the good old 301, the member in question was so so thrilled he chose to share his experiences on hear. Instead of people taking note and interest a few chose to go of the tangent and criticise just because of price, even a member who is not too keen on the 301 commented how wonderful the turntable was after hearing it even tough not to his absolute personal liking. It shows one has good intentions and things can just turn sour hey ho onwards and upwards.

Nari, with respect, everything is open to scrutiny regarding what it is, how its done, and how its priced. I did not flame this thread, I expressed concern about the price, which I still think for a lump of wood and resin is overpriced. Thats my opinion. I don't just value a thing on how it sounds, but other factors as well and price is one of them.

Anyway I will bow out now re my personal interest and will leave my involvement to moderating if required.

ovlov854
15-07-2019, 19:06
Not meaning to bang on I feel this thread took the normal forum turn, a very good dealer friend of chooses out of real kindness to lend around £30000 worth of turntable that I kind of instigated not expecting any financial gain at all, but just for a lovely member on AOS who contacted me to listen and hear what is capable out of the good old 301, the member in question was so so thrilled he chose to share his experiences on hear. Instead of people taking note and interest a few chose to go of the tangent and criticise just because of price, even a member who is not too keen on the 301 commented how wonderful the turntable was after hearing it even tough not to his absolute personal liking. It shows one has good intentions and things can just turn sour hey ho onwards and upwards.

We should be grateful that the lucky few are able to comment and in somecases have people to come and listen to this exalted gear.
Very few of us would be able to audition at this level. And such dealers are few and far between

Wakefield Turntables
15-07-2019, 20:33
I am humbly sorry if some see my list of equiptment as willy waving, I personally enjoy answering private mail, I get from aos members regularly asking some advise on a little I have learnt over the past 40 years of playing with this gear and share whatever little knowledge I have. I have enjoyed meeting and hearing from many interesting enthusiasts and during my short time have seen many systems vastly progress at whatever price level they may be at.

I see it as a fun hobby and enjoy listening to systems that cost a couple of thousands as much as ones cost hundreds of thousands. I always am amazed by some of the participants on aos who are continuing the quest whatever the budget maybe. I could name a few but i wont but we have people on here who have spent years and years listening and ended up with wonderful systems within there price points and really pushed them self and sacrificed other monetary commitments at the end of the day none of us need any of this stuff we purchase out of passion .

Nari, people can be proper bell end's. You've got great kit and are in a fortunate position in being able to indulge in your hobby. Some people are jealous, so I say bollocks to them. I honestly wouldn't give a toss, keep indulging!


We should be grateful that the lucky few are able to comment and in somecases have people to come and listen to this exalted gear.
Very few of us would be able to audition at this level. And such dealers are few and far between

+1

Spectral Morn
15-07-2019, 20:45
Nari, people can be proper bell end's. You've got great kit and are in a fortunate position in being able to indulge in your hobby. Some people are jealous, so I say bollocks to them. I honestly wouldn't give a toss, keep indulging!



+1

Andrew we do not call AoS Members bellends. Please refrain from such language in future.

montesquieu
15-07-2019, 20:51
Andrew we do not call AoS Members bellends. Please refrain from such language in future.

The individual under discussion has earned that particular description several times over. Indeed it seems to be his only reason for posting here.

Spectral Morn
15-07-2019, 20:56
The individual under discussion has earned that particular description several times over. Indeed it seems to be his only reason for posting here.

In this case its plural not singular, but whether singular or not we do not refer to AoS mebers here as bell ends. Anyone misbehaving not picked up by the mod team monitoring can be reported. What we don't want is things to esculate so report, or pm and the mods will deal with it.

Regardless no one should start throwing insults about.

montesquieu
15-07-2019, 21:32
In this case its plural not singular, but whether singular or not we do not refer to AoS mebers here as bell ends. Anyone misbehaving not picked up by the mod team monitoring can be reported. What we don't want is things to esculate so report, or pm and the mods will deal with it.

Regardless no one should start throwing insults about.

Wouldn't be necessary if the mods were on top of the situation but in this case they haven't been, despite plenty of reports going in from various people.

walpurgis
15-07-2019, 21:41
Wouldn't be necessary if the mods were on top of the situation but in this case they haven't been, despite plenty of reports going in from various people.

The situation was monitored and moderated. Like others, mods are not here 24 hours a day

montesquieu
15-07-2019, 21:44
The situation was monitored and moderated. Like others, mods are not here 24 hours a day

Yet the repeat offender is still here crapping on multiple threads.

Alex_UK
15-07-2019, 21:49
Wouldn't be necessary if the mods were on top of the situation but in this case they haven't been, despite plenty of reports going in from various people.

Hi Tom, we can assure you that the reported posts have been followed up - posts and threads have been deleted, and action will be taken if necessary.

Wakefield Turntables
16-07-2019, 06:52
Andrew we do not call AoS Members bellends. Please refrain from such language in future.

I used the term "people", being generalised. I can't see any specific reference to any AOS member. A poor and heavy handed interpretation Neal.

A.Grail
16-07-2019, 12:31
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