Recommendations for a vintage direct drive t/t

[shaman]

As per title. Performance wise needs to equal (or better!) my idler drives. i.e. Garrard 301/ Lenco G99/G88
Please can I only have recommendations based on personal experience. Not second hand or something that's been read about.
Thanks for your help.
Budget max £750 preferably with an arm.

[Beobloke]

I would say that, if your 301 is in good order and in a solid plinth with a good arm and cartridge, you'll have to spend a lot more on a DD to better it. I certainly paid more than that for the direct drive I own that finally knocked my own 301 off its pedestal!

However, if you can find a Sony PS-8750, TTS-8000 or Technics SP-10 for that price, they would be worth checking out.

[crimsondonkey]

Performance wise needs to equal (or better!) my idler drives. i.e. Garrard 301/ Lenco G99/G88

Budget max £750 preferably with an arm.

Unless you happen across a particular bargain, I can't see that being feasible within your budget.

[DiveDeepDog]

I had Sony 6750, probably better information retrieval device than my Garrard's, but didn't engage in the same way so it was sold.

I've now got TTS8000 that lifts the bar higher (above budget though) but it's taking some work with different arms to get the synergy right.

[Ammonite Audio]

It's worth looking out for a Kenwood KD-990 - a high end deck in its day that still performs well.

[Audio Al]

Technics 1210 takes some beating I have had 3 and still have 2 :)

[helma]

The Denon motor units (DP-3000 upwards and later DP-75 & DP-80) would be worth a look. I have the DP-3000 which is/was like their entry level into the "big" units. The Denons are a bit different to most in that they use AC motors, which behave a little differently than DC-motors and have less torque.

I haven't heard the better models but the DP-3000 is quite competent, however as for beating a Garrard or a Lenco, I don't think it really does that. It's better in some ways and worse in others. Speed stability and S/N is excellent as you'd expect. The DP-3000 is quite snappy sounding in my setup, but somehow it doesn't quite achieve the musical flow of my fettled Lencos, even when using the same tonearm. On the other hand it doesn't sound quite as uninvolving as my sonic memory of a completely stock SL-1200mk2, but it's been years since I last heard one.

IMO, you won't beat a good Garrard or Lenco with your budget if the idlers give what you are looking for.

[paulf-2007]

The Denon motor units (DP-3000 upwards and later DP-75 & DP-80) would be worth a look. I have the DP-3000 which is/was like their entry level into the "big" units. The Denons are a bit different to most in that they use AC motors, which behave a little differently than DC-motors and have less torque.

I haven't heard the better models but the DP-3000 is quite competent, however as for beating a Garrard or a Lenco, I don't think it really does that. It's better in some ways and worse in others. Speed stability and S/N is excellent as you'd expect. The DP-3000 is quite snappy sounding in my setup, but somehow it doesn't quite achieve the musical flow of my fettled Lencos, even when using the same tonearm. On the other hand it doesn't sound quite as uninvolving as my sonic memory of a completely stock SL-1200mk2, but it's been years since I last heard one.

IMO, you won't beat a good Garrard or Lenco with your budget if the idlers give what you are looking for.my DP80 trumps a 401 and ptp lenco and anything else I've heard tbh. Sounded better than a 401 without a plinth. The Dp80 and DP100 ( rarely seen outside Japan ) are completely different to the look alike Denons. Check out the specs. Platter is two piece with damping and electronics are more sophisticated. I had a mad moment and almost sold mine, glad it didn't happen. The guy that wanted it bought one and also hasn't heard anything to beat it.

[helma]

my DP80 trumps a 401 and ptp lenco and anything else I've heard tbh. Sounded better than a 401 without a plinth. The Dp80 and DP100 ( rarely seen outside Japan ) are completely different to the look alike Denons. Check out the specs. Platter is two piece with damping and electronics are more sophisticated. I had a mad moment and almost sold mine, glad it didn't happen. The guy that wanted it bought one and also hasn't heard anything to beat it.

Yeah I know the DP-80 uses a 3-phase motor for one, it's definitely on my list of decks I'd love to own some day :) But I don't think you can get one for £750, complete with arm at that... depending on the arm, that really doesn't leave that much for the deck itself, though with patience bargains can be found. Anyway, within those limits I think it's very tough to beat a Lenco.

[Shovel_Knight]

I think DP-75 is the same as DP-80 minus pitch adjustment. Motor units can be had from Japan very inexpensively...

[paulf-2007]

Yeah I know the DP-80 uses a 3-phase motor for one, it's definitely on my list of decks I'd love to own some day :) But I don't think you can get one for £750, complete with arm at that... depending on the arm, that really doesn't leave that much for the deck itself, though with patience bargains can be found. Anyway, within those limits I think it's very tough to beat a Lenco.
I think mine was about £600 from Japan, Stax arm was £600 plus plinth and aluminum sub plinth. Probably £1500 all in. As said the motor units from Japan are not overly expensive and come without arm or plinth. Don't think the ever supplied them complete like the lesser units. As for lenco, I never heard a standard lenco but built a ptp that visit me much the same as a 401 and about the same quality.

[indie roehre]

The JVC TT71 and Technics SP15. I use both next to Garrard. Very amazing DD's for the price.

[willbewill]

How about the JVC QL-7 turntable that Don has for sale here, would be a trip to London to collect but seems to be a bargain. Ian has one which he replinthed and it is very good.

[Fiddlefye]

my DP80 trumps a 401 and ptp lenco and anything else I've heard tbh. Sounded better than a 401 without a plinth. The Dp80 and DP100 ( rarely seen outside Japan ) are completely different to the look alike Denons. Check out the specs. Platter is two piece with damping and electronics are more sophisticated. I had a mad moment and almost sold mine, glad it didn't happen. The guy that wanted it bought one and also hasn't heard anything to beat it.

I've had many tables over the years, but when I got my DP-80 ended the search. It simply does everything right for my ears. I gather that while the 75 was less expensive and has a somewhat lower-torque motor in the real world the difference would be hard to tell in the listening.

[paulf-2007]

I've had many tables over the years, but when I got my DP-80 ended the search. It simply does everything right for my ears. I gather that while the 75 was less expensive and has a somewhat lower-torque motor in the real world the difference would be hard to tell in the listening.
Same for me, the end game. What arm are you using. The 12" stax and Shure ultra 500 just put the icing on the cake. I've done the MC thing and no longer feel the need to try and match arm, cart and step ups

[Idlewithnodrive]

As has been said, I think you'll struggle to find a higher end DD TT and arm for £750. You might do it for a £1000.

[Fiddlefye]

Same for me, the end game. What arm are you using. The 12" stax and Shure ultra 500 just put the icing on the cake. I've done the MC thing and no longer feel the need to try and match arm, cart and step ups

I have two arms - Audiocraft AC-400C out front and a Technics EPA 250 in the back. Both are lovely and they have a nicely contrasted character.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33849691888_99327104bd_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Tzbw6o)DSC_3564 (https://flic.kr/p/Tzbw6o) by fiddlefye (https://www.flickr.com/photos/82699172@N00/), on Flickr

[paulf-2007]

I have two arms - Audiocraft AC-400C out front and a Technics EPA 250 in the back. Both are lovely and they have a nicely contrasted character.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33849691888_99327104bd_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Tzbw6o)DSC_3564 (https://flic.kr/p/Tzbw6o) by fiddlefye (https://www.flickr.com/photos/82699172@N00/), on Flickrnice

[Idlewithnodrive]

nice

+1

[Floyddroid]

I have a Sony PS6750 as mentioned above. I use it with my headphone system used during bouts of insomnia and it ir really good. Even with it's stock arm it punches above it's weight. I have done the Garrard thing and steered clear, they just didn't do it for me. I recently took it along to NEBO and it played music all day and never skipped a beat even when we bolted an Audio Technica ART 9 MC into it. No bull, i prefer it to my 401 which i have since sold on.

[oldius]

I have a Sony PS6750 as mentioned above. I use it with my headphone system used during bouts of insomnia and it ir really good. Even with it's stock arm it punches above it's weight. I have done the Garrard thing and steered clear, they just didn't do it for me. I recently took it along to NEBO and it played music all day and never skipped a beat even when we bolted an Audio Technica ART 9 MC into it. No bull, i prefer it to my 401 which i have since sold on.Really good decks.

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[curry49]

KENWOOD-KD-770D 700 euro + shipping

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/kenwood-kd-770d-plattenspieler/1176947104-172-1763



Or…

KENWOOD-KD-770D US$499, Free-Shipping (for sale/delivery within North-America, only).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333290215430

[Yorkrise]

I’ve just made the change from. Garrard 401 to a technics sp10. You do get more detail and dynamics but you (so far, it’s early days) get less bass.

You might consider Zenmarket.com to expand your budget a bit. It’s a buying service that gives you access to Japan. DPA 80s and the occasional TTS 8000 go for about £300-400 and you’ll also pick up an arm - say a Stax or a fidelity research Fr54 for a considerable discount to western prices. I got a dpa 80 and a tts 8000 for about £300 (now awaiting their plinths). Allow for postage and customs duties and make sure that they package them well. They are also 100 v and you’ll need a transformer. You’ll also need a plinth. The plinth can be more expensive than the arm and motor depending on what you go for.

One word of warning - my TTS 8000 arrived broken. A bit of the casework. had snapped off. Nothing too serious, but I did need to know a turntable repair genius to sort it out.


Good luck...

Ben





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[JohnG]

Vintage Direct Drives, depending on the Brand and Model, can be found in Japan for
between £500 - £800 if one is looking for a sale item, that will have a translation, stating
" Not a junk item".
Many TT's seen for sale, will be with the vendors request when translated,
'please read all information', 'do not buy if you are wanting as new goods',
' goods are not returnable', ' Junk Item'.
If £600 is the cut off price for the TT, and the buyer is willing to take a punt on the item.
If the sale is realised, then add approximately £200 -£260 for the shipping if it is to be packaged correctly, and then by adding 25% for unavoidable duties, to the overall cost will get you close to the price to be incurred.
I ran my search for a SP10 in the UK parallel with a Far East search and in the end purchased my SP10 in the UK, with the knowing I was going to be supported by Angus with the servicing requirements to get it into a fully functioning TT.
My purchase caused Angus a few of the beaten track investigations, and I was very thankful and fortunate to have been supported by Angus.

[curry49]

As per title. Performance wise needs to equal (or better!) my idler drives. i.e. Garrard 301/ Lenco G99/G88


If that means that the DD should equal the idler in its areas of strengths, I wonder if that’s even possible.

I say this because the appeal of the idler seems to be based on its excesses – and justifiably so: More than any other source, an idler exaggerates dynamics and midbass 'punch' (in a way that seems more realistic than almost anything else). For instance, no other source that I know of (including digital) reproduces the ubiquitous kickdrum as realistically as my own idler, in my own experience.

Yet, some would present credible arguments to suggest that idlers aren’t accurate. Perhaps this also has to do with why idlers seem to excel with Jazz & other popular music, and not necessarily with the Classics. Still, it's ironic that the drive-type which tends to sound the most realistic (with Pop, at least) would also be accused of being the most inaccurate.

Nevertheless, there's no denying that the idler sounds different from other sources - especially idlers at the more extreme end of the scale.

While a good DD can and does sound very much like a good belter, which can sound like tape, or digital, nothing sounds like an idler - nothing. With an idler, the snare and the kickdrum will be more prominent than with any other source - and this is what makes it sound so real, for me and many others, I'm sure - this is the root of its appeal. And Garrards are known to be the most exuberant in this regard.

So, again, I wonder if there's any DD to be found with the ablity to equal the exuberance of a Garrard in its areas of strength.

But then, 'equal' could mean something slightly different.

For instance, I consider my 125 Thorens belter equal to my Lenco idler, even though they're different from each other. The Thorens is now close but not quite as good as the idler in the latter's areas of strength, but, also, the Lenco is not as musically-detailed and nuanced as the 125. Yet, they're both very good (my own little DD doesn't quite compete, even with the likes of an Ittok). I find it hard to imagine permanently opting for one over the other. Add that to the fact that they're generally quite close and it may become apparent as to why I see them as equal.

If 'equal' here is meant in a similar context, then the goal is achievable, for sure.

But, if meant in the literal context, then I'm sorry. - no DD or any other source can equal a Garrard idler in areas where the Garrard shines most.