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View Full Version : Reproduction of sounds and the reproductions of images: are there parallels?



Barry
27-05-2010, 23:45
Whilst mowing the lawn this afternoon, I was musing over what those qualities were that I require from my sound reproducing system, and do I expect the same when looking at images? To be able to discuss this I need to separate those images that I have made myself and those images that have been made by others; that is, distinguish between photography and paintings. Furthermore, I need to distinguish between flat two-dimensional objects and three-dimensional images; sculpture, as I find my requirements are different.

Let us consider photography first, and specifically photographs I take myself. Obviously the quality of any image taken by a camera depends on two things: the image sensor (film, for Luddites like me) and the lens through which the photograph is taken. Two of my pleasures are travel and photography and the vast majority of the photographs I take are made during these travels. I take very few portraits, landscapes or nude or architectural studies. For travel photography the camera has to be rugged and capable of performing in extremes of heat and cold, or in conditions of dust, rain or snow.

How do we relate the qualities of photographic image making with those of listening to music, speech or poetry? Well let us consider the definition and sharpness of the optics/film as being in some way a parallel to the detail and resolution provided by the sound system. Until recently, I used Kodachrome 64 slide film, and all the optics I use have been designed by Leitz, Zeiss or Steinheil. The ability I look for in film is fine grain (equivalent in audio to detail and resolution) and correct colour rendition (equivalent to tonal fidelity). The lenses must be sharp, have high resolution, reasonable contrast (high sharpness and high contrast are, unfortunately, mutually exclusive properties), low distortion both chromatic and geometric (again equivalent to tonal fidelity and imaging). All these requirements are satisfied with the equipment I use.

What about dynamic range? Slide film has a contrast ratio of about 10 stops at best, that’s a ratio of 1024:1 or only 30dB in audio terms and much, much less, than that of the human eye, which has a range of over 23 stops or 70dB. So clearly we are at a disadvantage here – and yet I have never questioned or found this compression intrusive.

What about sense of scale – the equivalent of the sound stage, width and depth? Now here, the use of slide film has an advantage: when projected onto a screen, I feel I can ‘walk into the picture’, despite it not being a user-friendly way to look at images. Even when the photograph was taken in cold conditions, so believable is the image – I feel the cold on viewing it. Yet this is not important to me. When I have visited photography exhibitions, the prints (usually black and white – why are black and white prints more evocative than colour?) are often no larger than 20” x 16” (roughly A3), yet I do not feel cheated when looking at my numerous books of photographs by famous photographers, most of which display prints no larger than 10” x 8” (say A4).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Adams_Church_Taos_Pueblo.jpg/220px-Adams_Church_Taos_Pueblo.jpg

http://images.artnet.com/artwork_images_117186_240007_andre-kertesz.jpg

http://stephanieoconnor.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/lee_miller_space.jpg

(L-R) Photographs by Ansel Adams, André Kertesz and Lee Miller.

It would thus appear that I have lower demands on the reproduction of photographic images than I do on the reproduction of sounds.

Now when we come to the viewing of pictures and sculpture, my requirements and demands change again. I have numerous art books and as long as the reproduced prints are of good quality, I am content. I do, of course, visit art galleries when I can and enjoy the items hung there; indeed I spent three hours queuing outside the Grand Palais in Paris, to see a Gauguin exhibition and when I am in Amsterdam, will always make time to visit the Van Gogh Museum. Whilst it is always good to see the actual painting, to see the texture of the paint and of the brush strokes, I do at times have to look past the often heavy and ornate frames that I find distracting. (Why do they seem to use such awful frames – Marco, can you explain?)

Also, the actual sizes of the paintings are usually much larger than their prints in art books. Monet’s ‘Water lilies’ are enormous, so too are the screen prints of Warhol, yet Blake’s watercolours are smaller than the corresponding print. Why does this not matter to me? If I had a CD wherein the soundstage only occupied a small fraction of the space between my speakers I would feel cheated.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/claude-monet-paintings-1873-1878-5.jpg http://www.philipcoppens.com/blake_01.jpg

Paintings by Monet (L) and Blake (R)

The only paintings I feel you have to see ‘full size’ are those of the abstract expressionist Jackson Pollock and the ‘meditative’ paintings of Marc Rothko. For all others I’m happy to look at my art-books. Why is that?

http://blog.case.edu/case-news/2006/11/30/pollock.jpg
http://easteatswest.typepad.com/east_eats_west/images/2007/11/24/mark_rothko.jpg
Paintings by J. Pollock (above) and M. Rothko (below)

Finally when it comes to sculpture however, photographs in books are unsatisfactory. Being three dimensional, sculpture needs to be viewed from all angles and if possible touched, though sadly this is discouraged for practical reasons. Some sculptures are so large that part of their emotional impact is due to their sheer size. The works of Constantin Brancusi, or Giacometti, and Henry Moore come to mind.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_e7W7UB1fb7Q/SxSOdqLsSwI/AAAAAAAACFM/P49TZ2pCbL8/s1600/22813_constantin_brancusi.jpg
Sculpture by Brancusi.

http://artfiles.art.com/5/ncr/p/LRG/27/2700/2IQUD00Z/gordon-parks-skeletal-giacometti-sculpture-on-parisian-street.jpg
Scupture by Giacometti.

http://www.gardenvisit.com/assets/madge/henry_moore_foundation_1413_jpg/600x/henry_moore_foundation_1413_jpg_600x.jpg.
Sculpture by henry Moore.

Clearly having viewed a large piece of sculpture a photograph becomes an aide-memoir, but on its own is insufficient. An extreme example is some of the works by Anish Kapoor:

http://blog.hotelclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/cloud-gate.jpg

So there you have it, I clearly have a different approach and expectations when listening to reproduced sound than I do for the visual arts. Strange isn't it?

Little to do with ‘The Art of Sound’ I know, but I felt I ought to do something a bit different for my 2000th post. Any comments would be appreciated.

Regards

John
28-05-2010, 04:15
Cool post Barry
I know a lot of people who get into Hifi are also into photography and nice reading your take on this

Peter Galbavy
28-05-2010, 06:17
I like the post and agree. Both visual and audiable media and reproduction are very closely related, from technology through to human appreciation and consumption.

The odd, and I might even say bastard, child of the two are films/movies (and TV). These don't really fit but happen to display some characteristics of both and keep the masses happy, so...

magiccarpetride
28-05-2010, 16:48
Little to do with ‘The Art of Sound’ I know, but I felt I ought to do something a bit different for my 2000th post. Any comments would be appreciated.

Regards

Interestingly, we don't hear as many outcries against digitization of images as much as we hear against the digitization of sound. Especially with the advent of HD TV, one never hears complaints how the images on a 1080p flat screen lack the warmth and the presence of the cathode tube TV screen.

Why is that? Surely, the digital bits comprising the images are just as cold, mechanical and detached as are the digital bits comprising the sound wave. And similarly, the source image had to be chopped up (i.e. sampled) into little pieces in the same fashion that analog music has to be chopped up into bits (44,000 times per second) before it can be stored as a 'digital representation'. And yet, when playing back a digitized image, even though we know that it's composed of 1,080 by 1,800 bits of digital info, we still oooh and aaah about its pristine quality.

Why is the same so unacceptable in the world of sound reproduction? Why do audiophiles moan over the loss of warmth and musicality when listening to a sound wave that has been reconstructed from the 44,000 samples of a one second of that sound wave?

Peter Galbavy
28-05-2010, 17:40
Interestingly, we don't hear as many outcries against digitization of images as much as we hear against the digitization of sound. Especially with the advent of HD TV, one never hears complaints how the images on a 1080p flat screen lack the warmth and the presence of the cathode tube TV screen.

You're on the wrong forum for that! That's an issue that is as done to death as vinyl vs. CD on many other forums. And depending on the sourcse material, I agree. Upscaling only works to any acceptable level on certain SD sources and conversly there is some aweful HD material out there too. The big win for me in the HD staked is not resolution but the colour gamut. Much better than old PAL and NTSC standards.

Barry
30-05-2010, 00:25
I like the post and agree. Both visual and audiable media and reproduction are very closely related, from technology through to human appreciation and consumption.

The odd, and I might even say bastard, child of the two are films/movies (and TV). These don't really fit but happen to display some characteristics of both and keep the masses happy, so...

Good point Peter. I hadn't thought of moving images when I wrote the post. This opens up the discussion to include both cinema and television.

I don't watch a lot of TV but I am quite demanding of the picture quality of television. My TV is ancient; so old it doen't even have a SCART socket, let alone HDMI. I bought it 25 years ago, yet keep it because the colour fidelity is still very good and a lot better than much of what I see in dealers showrooms. The set is showing signs of ageing, of course, but the effects are very small. Signals received from Freeview are sufficiently sharp for me.

It's only an 18" screen (smaller than my 19" computer monitor) yet I'm loathed to change it for something bigger, as that would require a flat screen, such as LCD or plasma. Neither of these technologies are sufficiently mature (CRTs have over a century of development) to have much of a track record. Things are progressing and LCD displays have come along leaps and bounds over the last five years. Even so I'm always dissapointed my what I see, especially for the asking price. I'm especially sensitive to the aliasing and pixellisation of out-of-focus moving images in the background, and the jerky motions they make.

High Definition TV is superb. if the signal is provided by Blu Ray, but significantly poorer 'off air'. Just like digital radio, the BBC have renagued on the bit rate promised and HDTV is a shadow of itself. Possibly things might improve for the London Olympics, but I doubt it. It's all to do with bandwidth: the smaller the bandwith, the more stations you can have with correspondingly poorer picture.

When it comes to cinema I'm usually content with what I see. I'm not impressed by Ciemascope but do find films shot in the 'Academy' aspect ratio quaint. In general however, the quality depends on the quality of the film copy (especially the colour quality) and how well it has been handled by the projectionist. Some films I have seen in the last couple of years have been superbly sharp with an almost tactile quality to them and excellent colour fidelity.

Again it's 'horses for courses'.

Regards