View Full Version : 'Wallah', valves, political correctness, and Richard's rant
This happened with the 60's and 70's specmanship, the 70's and 80's and 90's flat earth and now just as badly as has become the paramount "truth" on this forum - the bottle wallers
Can you explain what you mean by "bottle wallers"? It would help if you just used plain (polite) English when expressing your views instead of 'Dunn-speak' ;)
Marco.
Can you explain what you mean by "bottle wallers"? It would help if you just used plain (polite) English when expressing your views instead of 'Dunn-speak' ;)
Marco.
Comes from the Raj. A wallah is an Indian name for a servant with a specific job as in Punkawallah - in charge of the fan, or Charwallah - in charge of the tea. Bottle means a glass container. So I suppose servant of the bottle, which as we all should know is slang for a valve or for the US audience a tube.
Just a little humour and a play on words, but you will find offence where you wish to find it for sure.
Thanks for the clarification, Richard. There was no offence taken at any stage :)
I perhaps in future wouldn't assume that people automatically know what a "bottle waller" is, or other such unusual terminology. I'd never heard of it before and thought you had made it up. In fact I thought you were making some reference to valves!
Effective communication only occurs when all parties write in the same language. We're not living in the Raj ;)
Marco.
Thanks for the clarification, Richard. There was no offence taken at any stage :)
I perhaps in future wouldn't assume that people automatically know what a "bottle waller" is, or other such unusual terminology. I'd never heard of it before and thought you had made it up. In fact I thought you were making some reference to valves!
Effective communication only occurs when all parties write in the same language ;)
Marco.
It is the same language, English is a bastard language that has absorbed from many tongues. Where do you think pajamas and bungalow came from, same as wallah. Are you saying I should not presume intelligence in these conversations :eyebrows:
Plus I said quite clearly it was a reference to the valve users here, or should that be the *new* religion. As with all belief structures and religious hypocrisy, some will be offended and try to censor I am sure, same as the flat earthers did and do, same as the objectivists did and daftly still do.
There are no certainties, only possibilities.
It is the same language, English is a bastard language that has absorbed from many tongues. Where do you think pajamas and bungalow came from, same as waller. Are you saying I should not presume intelligence in these conversations :eyebrows:
You are absolutely right about the English language and there are many examples of what you are referring to. However I think you'll agree that "pajamas" (did you mean pyjamas {Wink}) and "bungalow" are somewhat more commonly used than "waller" - whatever. Or maybe it's an age gap thing? ;)
Anyway, what's wrong with valves, now - is this your latest moan? :lol:
Marco.
You are absolutely right about the English language and there are many examples of what you are referring to. However I think you'll agree that "pajamas" (did you mean pyjamas {Wink}) and "bungalow" are somewhat more commonly used than "waller" - whatever. Or maybe it's an age gap thing? ;)
Anyway, what's wrong with valves, now - is this your latest moan? :lol:
Marco.
Slip of the keyboard ;)
Please read the post, do I object to objectivist, well yes I do as they are so pedantic, do I object to flat earthers - not really they created the move to subjectivism, but it went too far and on to a very narrow path. Do I object to bottle wallahs, nope not unless they become fixated and narrow minded. The technology I have no problem with at all I worked with it as I am old enough to remember when it was the only sensible option. It still has its place and I am very pleased it re-emerged from the wilderness, who in the UK do we thank for this do you remember were you around? Well it was Anthony Michaelson with TVR in the mid 70's, OK a majority went spectacularly up in flames but they were a welcome alternative to the burgeoning Linn / Naim religious pomposity.
There are valves and there are transistors, neither is right or wrong, both have strengths and weaknesses. Narrow minded pomposity means that some people cannot accept that if *they* as an individual have made a choice that their choice is the ultimate expression of musical reality, as they cannot be wrong, and bare no denial of that perceived reality. Just like religious bigotry.
Quite simply interface is king, if you get that interface synergy right and balanced to voltage amplification then valves are right. If the game is changed and the interface synergy is current based then transistors are right, substitute one for the other when the rest stays the same then both are wrong. Look at what you need or expect from musical reproduction and your perception and expectations of that synergy changes. For example (and there are many different examples) some look for the overall expression like looking at a landscape picture with mellow colours and unchallenging expression, they will more often than not go for valves. Those that want to delve into the music and understand structure and individual relationships and nuance will more often than not go for transistors, neither is right or wrong, just in this case broad brush or narrow brush. All a designer can do is be faithfull to his own taste, perception and preference, all a user should do is find the one that matches his. But respect the person who makes his own choice even though different from you and even though it may be AVI ADM9s :doh:
Good post, Richard. I'll come back to you on it tomorrow. I'm hitting the sack now, which my bed-waller has just prepared...
:goodnight:
Marco.
You are absolutely right about the English language and there are many examples of what you are referring to. However I think you'll agree that "pajamas" (did you mean pyjamas {Wink}) and "bungalow" are somewhat more commonly used than "waller" - whatever. Or maybe it's an age gap thing? ;)
Anyway, what's wrong with valves, now - is this your latest moan? :lol:
Marco.
Valves are lovely. You could object to the heat, the expense and the specifications, though I really doubt the bit of extra measurable distortion is audible; besides, they sound good. If anything is objectionable it is not the valves themselves, but the fetishism that seems to grow around them, their mysterious tendency to push their users from preference to dogma. They are much like vinyl in that regard. Yes, they have a seductive aural appeal. But to the pragmatist, from an arm's length, the passion seems to be as much about ritual and romance as sound.
As a long-time guitarist, I love valves, but I've never felt compelled to use valves in hifi. I like the way they sound in that application, I hear the honey in the upper mids, but I've always thought of it as a flavor, not as something clearly superior. I'm going to have my first valve amp in here for an in-home trial, probably next week. I have a couple of good challenges to run it through. It should be interesting.
Tim
ON EDIT: Evidently Richard was posting while I was composing. Warped minds, it would seem, think somewhat alike...
I think you mean wallah.
I should know, trust me.
Hehe... I know exactly what you mean. Spelling is not Richard's strongest point either. Hey, since you're so au fait with the lingo can we call you 'Gupta' from now on then, too? Oh deary, deary, me... :lol:
;)
Marco.
I think you mean wallah.
I should know, trust me.
Ta! found it spelt both ways on google, but you are right I am sure. Changed it.
Google also says Walla is OK and Wiki says Wala is OK, so there!
If this was thirty years ago, everyone would have known the full meaning of Wallah. Like so many things, it has been swallowed up in the grey sea of political correctness that has engulfed and stifled our culture in recent years, so that no-one now dares use such an expression for fear of accusations of racism, the greatest taboo of all.
Shane, I totally agree with you, especially about political correctness – it is nonsense. Don't get me started on that one!
I think it's an age gap thing, too, though. 30 years ago I was only 12, and wouldn't have known what was meant by "Wallah" ("Wally” or "Wanka" might have been different ;)), never mind people here who are younger than me, unless they've had cause to study such things or have somehow encountered its usage.
Marco.
Come to think of it, I have a vague recollection of the term being used on the comedy 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum' during the 70s...
Ah yes, on the subject of political correctness, 1970s comedies! Who remembers 'Love Thy Neighbour', 'On the Buses' and 'Mind Your Language!'? Some of the dialogue used was hilarious and would never be allowed now. Gems such as 'Sambo' and 'Honky' spring to mind... :lolsign:
Marco.
OK so the old rant thread was closed only for mods to open another one - bloody daft?
So lets try again.
And so it continues - the point of the arrow is always followed by the rest of it!
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=48649
Shows the discussion continues elsewhere if not allowed here.
Come to think of it, I have a vague recollection of the term being used on the comedy 'It Ain't Half Hot Mum' during the 70s...
Marco.
Well done...... do try to keep up young 'n !!!
:lolsign:
Ah yes, on the subject of political correctness, 1970s comedies! Who remembers 'Love Thy Neighbour', 'On the Buses' and 'Mind Your Language!'? Some of the dialogue used was hilarious and would never be allowed now. Gems such as 'Sambo' and 'Honky' spring to mind... :lolsign:
Marco.
How about 'Robinsons Jam' and their 'Golly Wog' ???
:scratch:
Marco...get back to watching It Aint Half 'Ot Mum.
oh...and Richard, the term wallah denotes a trade, function or even a profession. The last thing it means is a servant. Better think up something else for those slaves to the toobs.
...for the curious, I spent 5 years living in India, but been back for a good 5 years now as well.
And then of course there's your surname ;)
Marco.
How about 'Robinsons Jam' and their 'Golly Wog' ???
:scratch:
Hahaha... I forgot about that. Classic! Some people have a sense of humour bypass these days when it comes to that kind of stuff. If you can't laugh at getting the Mickey gently taken out of you then you're a sad case as far as I'm concerned.
I often take the piss out of Italians (or 'eye-ties') and Scots, and laugh at jokes about such, even though I was born in Scotland and have Italian parents. I also have some Pakistani friends, and believe me, nothing is funnier than listening to them taking the piss out of 'Pakis'. The comedy 'Goodness Gracious Me' was hilarious, too!
There's a massive difference between gently poking fun at a particular race, and racism. But because of this bloody stupid political correctness malarkey these days we all have to mind our 'Ps' and 'Qs'...
Marco.
But because of this bloody stupid political correctness malarkey these days we all have to mind our 'Ps' and 'Qs'...
Marco.
Erm.... I'm not entierly sure you just did that matey!
:lolsign: :lolsign: :lolsign:
OK so the old rant thread was closed only for mods to open another one - bloody daft?
So lets try again.
And so it continues - the point of the arrow is always followed by the rest of it!
http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=48649
Shows the discussion continues elsewhere if not allowed here.
Richard,
You've got this all wrong. It is not disallowed here. I told you why your old rant thread was closed, and it had bugger all to do with 'political reasons', I can assure you!
If you would like me to move your above post into the Blank Canvas, therefore creating a new thread on the matter, I will do so, and you can discuss away until your heart's content!
But, I'm sorry, the old rant thread stays locked.
Marco.
And then of course there's your surname ;)
Marco.
...quite.
Erm.... I'm not entierly sure you just did that matey!
:lolsign: :lolsign: :lolsign:
Hehe... That was the intention. This is my manor so I can say what the hell I like! :lol:
Marco.
Hey, you carry on Bud!
Political correctness has it's place, but no-one said it has take over the whole damn world fercrissakes!
:mental:
Filterlab
02-06-2008, 21:13
Richard,
You've got this all wrong. It is not disallowed here. I told you why your old rant thread was closed, and it had bugger all to do with 'political reasons', I can assure you!
If you would like me to move your above post into the Blank Canvas, therefore creating a new thread on the matter, I will do so, and you can discuss away until your heart's content!
But, I'm sorry, the old rant thread stays locked.
Marco.
I think sometimes Richard is a little hard of understanding. :confused: :lol:
I think sometimes Richard is a little hard of understanding. :confused: :lol:
I sometimes think you are a complete really nice chaps, so hopefully that makes us even.
Steve Toy
03-06-2008, 00:45
Now now Richard, temper tantrums that we can indulge out of charity on our part, to a point, serve no purpose.
As an intelligent chap that you are, I'm sure you can refrain from them.
We love you but anger management is an issue for you. It won't become an issue for us, so post away but don't make any of us want to laugh at you for the wrong reasons.
Now now Richard, temper tantrums that we can indulge out of charity on our part, to a point, serve no purpose.
As an intelligent chap that you are, I'm sure you can refrain from them.
We love you but anger management is an issue for you. It won't become an issue for us, so post away but don't make any of us want to laugh at you for the wrong reasons.
There is no anger you missread the energy. Just a combination of amusement and irritation in that like the school playground the monitors have their own rules and powers and can insult as much as they like with impunity.
Threats of removal serve no purpose, please yourself, would it help if I called you a prat as well, even if I don't actually mean it. You see deliberate wind up and irritation as practiced recentlyon any post I make (see the closed thread that HE closed) deserves some mutual.
Who controls the controllers :confused: when they become the hunters instead of the ref what is the point :scratch:
Filterlab
03-06-2008, 10:10
Blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah de blah.
Odd how it's only YOU with that opinion, nobody else has any complaints.
I'm glad you're a member of this hi-fi forum Richard, maybe one day one of our useful members can fix the broken record that creates your posts.
Richard, you need to get it into your head that we are the ones in charge and as such you have to respect that fact and accept the decisions we make without your constant bleating. If you can't do that then your presence here is simply an irritation, despite your occasional flashes of intriguing input - it's really as simple as that.
Rob was merely making an observation - the one I have outlined above. Given the evidence of your behaviour, you *are* hard of understanding! That's not an insult - it's a fact. You calling Rob an "idiot" under those circumstances therefore is not acceptable as there was no invective or abusive remark directed at you. So stop acting as if we're ganging up on you. It is you who has instigated this situation.
Now, you know I've been more than fair with you on many occasions, but it's got to the stage now for you to shape up or ship out as my patience is wearing thin. The latter can be achieved in the click of a button, and if you are banned this time it will be permanent. I don't want to have to do that, but it's your call.
Marco.
Steve Toy
03-06-2008, 11:30
You know, if we could install an on/off switch to that stroppy feature of Richard he'd be a bloody brilliant poster. Another job for Anthony methinks... :)
The exchange with Howard was superb.
Richard, you need to get it into your head that we are the ones in charge and as such you have to respect that fact and accept the decisions we make without your constant bleating. If you can't do that then your presence here is simply an irritation, despite your occasional flashes of intriguing input - it's really as simple as that.
Rob was merely making an observation - the one I have outlined above. Given the evidence of your behaviour, you *are* hard of understanding! That's not an insult - it's a fact. You calling Rob an "idiot" under those circumstances therefore is not acceptable as there was no invective or abusive remark directed at you. So stop acting as if we're ganging up on you. It is you who has instigated this situation.
Now, you know I've been more than fair with you on many occasions, but it's got to the stage now for you to shape up or ship out as my patience is wearing thin. The latter can be achieved in the click of a button, and if you are banned this time it will be permanent. I don't want to have to do that, but it's your call.
Marco.
I seriously could not give a toss, do what ever and which ever you wish. I was being hunted in that old thread that was closed before I let it go quiet, and one of the hunters was one of your admins, and that is where these insults were posted, it is not just this recent post, is that sensible? if he cannot take criticism or the chance that people see that he has wasted loads of money on his amp it is not my fault, *I* was not hunting him. *I* was just ranting some of the industry anomolies, the guy :) who made his amp is just one of them.
As I have already told you I was asked by a couple of industry insiders to reactivate that thread as it was causing so much amusement, talk and anger amoungst the vested interests especially those who it threatened, including the ones that are your members. I do not mind being hunted by the likes of those my rant is threatening, and they did their hunting, but one of your admins!! that is what is bloody daft, and why he got the idiot title.
As soon as I reactivated the thread he found an excuse to close it, something that wasn't even relevent to the thread but a personal ad hominem attack on me, WHICH according to you rules should have been removed or at minimum a post to get it back on subject, but NO to suit HIS personal interest it was closed. Those are the facts. Now fine if that is the way it is then that is the way it is, are you now saying I am not allowed to talk about or refer to the fact that it has happened, even more ridiculous. You are changing from a vehicle for rant to becoming one of the subjects for rant if that is the case.
You know, if we could install an on/off switch to that stroppy feature of Richard he'd be a bloody brilliant poster. Another job for Anthony methinks... :)
The exchange with Howard was superb.
You don't get one without the others, the reason should be patently obvious.
What you see as brilliant post will be seen by someone else who feels threatened by it as the opposite. The ridiculous nature of this discussion about the behaviour and actions sometimes in the admin of this forum may offend you but many others in the sidelines nod their head in approval, but dont expect them to express it publically. If you really want to know take it to the vote as with Ash. It is all just yin and yang and your POV just depends where you stand on that dichotomy line.
I would love to get back to the rant as you are just serving the purpose of those who want it shut up. And for such a small insignificant forum to get this insider attention I would have thought was an asset not a liability.
Ali Tait
03-06-2008, 16:29
Well I'll be public about it Richard.At the outset I would say that I've no axe to grind either way so I guess you could say I'm a neutral party.
I do feel however that Richard is being treated rather unfairly in this instance.I appreciate that Richard may post in a more forthright manner at times than most on here,but from what I can see he is just expressing his opinion.Surely he is entitled to this?? I agree that there is no place for personal remarks or invective,but at the same time I would also say that the admin/mods should not be partizan in their attitude to any one member over another,and really should never make it or take things personal(ly).I do feel however that there's an element of "It's my ball,so if you don't like it,bugger off" on this forum,but please take this as a constructive comment,it's not aimed at anyone in the admin team in particular,and I'm really not interested in getting into a heated debate on the subject.
Don't get me wrong,I find this an interesting place on the whole,and the way it is growing is good to see,especially new members from other countries contributing new viewpoints.It's how we all learn is it not,by interacting with people who's opinions/experience differ from ours? That their opinions differ from ours is no excuse to have a go on a personal level however in my opinion,and while I would say that Richard (and others!) may have been guilty of that in the past on occasion (usually because he/they been provoked though,from what Iv'e seen),the admin team/mods really should take the matter up with them privately,and not in public,as to me it smacks of unprofessionalism,and I think we can all agree that we would like the site to run in a professional manner.
I hope this post will be taken in the way it is meant i.e. as constructive criticism,and not as a rant,and also please remember it's just MHO.
Regards,Ali.
Steve Toy
03-06-2008, 17:25
Good post Ali and I find myself agreeing with much of what you say.
I do feel however that there's an element of "It's my ball,so if you don't like it,bugger off" on this forum,
I admit that this stance has been adopted rather bluntly when one or two individuals have pushed their luck and I agree that it isn't a good thing as it is just pulling rank. I agree that the role of admin is to facilitate not create a platform to massage ones ego and self importance. We can learn from this.
However, Richard deliberately pushes the boundaries when he just throws out the personal insults in the direction of two members of the admin team. I mean, what does he really expect us to do about it?
I tell you what I'll do, I'm not going to give him the satisfaction of removing his posting rights. I'll just tell him to grow up because that is really what he needs to do in place of acting like some petulant child with no self control.
anthonyTD
03-06-2008, 17:57
Good post Ali and I find myself agreeing with much of what you say.
I admit that this stance has been adopted rather bluntly when one or two individuals have pushed their luck and I agree that it isn't a good thing as it is just pulling rank. I agree that the role of admin is to facilitate not create a platform to massage ones ego and self importance. We can learn from this.
However, Richard deliberately pushes the boundaries when he just throws out the personal insults in the direction of two members of the admin team. I mean, what does he really expect us to do about it?
I tell you what I'll do, I'm not going to give him the satisfaction of removing his posting rights. I'll just tell him to grow up because that is really what he needs to do in place of acting like some petulant child with no self control.
as a mod, [although i have yet to use the privilage] here is my opinion for what its worth, richards ranting room was set up for just that, anyone brave enough or confident enough to chalenge or even debate the rants of richard, this is where you could do so, without offending the rest of the users of the forum who just want to engage in topics of a more well, less controversial nature! i for one am not offended, or threatend, by what richard has to say on all matters of this sometimes mad and fickle world we deal in, maybe its because i have the confidence to debate on his level, and i am sure richard realy enjoys a good vocal dust up from time to time, i am also convinced that he deliberately provokes us at times just to get a reaction. in my honest opinion, i realy think, with a bit of carefull moderating, richard should be allowed his original space, but it should be made clear that people who decide to enter one of richards rants do so at their own risk!
as stated this is just my humble opinion.:)
anthony.
Ali, Steve and Anthony, fair comment.
The thing is it's not simply a case of "It's my ball" - someone has to be in charge and make decisions otherwise arguments would go on until infinity.
The decisions we make as admin are never taken lightly - the situation is always carefully considered before we take any action such as locking threads, deleting/editing posts, or banning people, and any decision reached is always what we consider for the good of the forum and to maintain the friendly atmosphere we have created here.
I find the majority of Richard's posts interesting and often entertaining, but what I will not put up with is him referring to people as "wankers" (which I've had to delete from some of his posts recently) and "idiots", which was the comment directed at Rob. Now Rob is far from being an idiot and regardless of what went on beforehand he did not deserve to be insulted in that way - end of story.
If Richard can't make his point without resorting to insulting people then I'm afraid he won't be making any points, period. In future he needs to think more carefully about what he writes before hitting the send button, and I will thus be monitoring his future input very carefully. I am locking this thread now as the message is quite clear and I will not become involved in a tit-for-tat debate on the matter.
Marco.
Steve Toy
03-06-2008, 19:59
I've reopened Richard's rant thread. Richard now has his chance to rant away without resorting to personal insults.
Fair enough, Steve. But the content will be getting monitored very carefully.
Marco.
Filterlab
03-06-2008, 20:05
Ali; remember that it's ONLY Richard who chooses to insult everyone, the other hundreds of members on here manage to have deep discussions about many many different aspects of hi-fi and the hi-fi industry without resorting to the name calling and mud slinging that Richard manages to do.
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