Japanese Tonearms

[Wakefield Turntables]

Guys,

im a little bored with my SME3012 and have decided that I would like to try something away from the beaten path. I'm in the process of getting my Garrard 401 ready to be plinthed and I'd like to try something Japanese and preferably 12", my new plinth will also accommodate a 9" arm so I'm happy for suggestions for either. I'm quite happy for old or vintage suggestions. I'm really looking forward to your suggestions:D.

[JohnG]

I was recently offered a chance to import a Audiocraft AC-3000MC, this was a VGC, Boxed Item.
I use a PMAT 1010, the Phonomac modified version of the AT-1010.
As for 12 inch Japanese models, these are slightly harder to come by, Jelco, Ikeda, SEAC and Micro Sieki can be brands seen with available items, especially if a risk through importing is acceptable.

[WESTLOWER]

Timestep T-612 'banana' tonearm, excellent value.

[vinylspinner]

If you do decide to go 12 inch look out for an ATP16 or AT1501, very good arms imho.

[Beobloke]

Sorane ZA12?

[helma]

Maybe something like a SAEC with their somewhat crazy one nullpoint geometry and double knife-edge bearing? Or one of the vintage unipivots like Audiocraft or even Stax UA-something (hmm were those even unipivots, I seem to think so)? If going for vintage, there are a crazy amount of Japanese tonearms around, some of them very good, some of them not so, but most of them very well made, though bearings might (probably?) need attention at this point.

The Sorane definitely looks interesting, if I had the expendable dough, I'd get one just out of curiosity :)

What about ViV lab rigid float? Completely straight (no offset angle) and very short tonearm with weird bearings for crazy money. How could you go wrong with that :p

[Sand Dancin Donkey Walker]

Hi Rexton

My recommendation would be an Audiocraft AC-3000.
Used one on my Feickert Twin for a lot of years, never any trouble and just did it's thing no drama's.
I liked the variable damping adjuster, you can also get various arm upto 12" too.
If you get the Ltd version you get all the various weights to account for cartridge weights and arm lengths.

26355

As a thought, I sold mine to Simon at HiFi Sound in Stockton.
He may have bought it for his personal collection, but could be still there in the shop.
May be worth a call

[montesquieu]

Worth looking out for an Ikeda IT-407, I have no complaints at all about mine and I regard it as a 'destination' - I admit to having a soft spot for the SME 3012 though for its fluidity. The Ikeda delivers its results in a different way. Anyway, I have evaluated lots of 12in arms and if you need the flexibility of a swappable headshell there's nothing better than the Ikeda in my view.

I swapped it in in place of an Ortofon RMG 309 limited (Limited has a few more toys than the RMG 309i) a 1990s Japanese market reissue of the1960s Ortofon RMG309. This is a great arm especially for SPU, and lovely thing to handle and use.

I previously also had an SME M2-12R which though it looks like the SME 3012 is actually a totally different arm, fully gimballed bearing as opposed to the part knife edge arrangement in the 3012. Quite a different sound to the 3012 and highly regarded in many quarters - indeed I've read praise for it on some forums as the best arm SME have ever made. (I'd certainly take it over an SME V).

As Adam mentioned the Timestep 612 is worth looking at too though it's very high mass and suitable only for the lowest compliance cartridges - all the others can do low compliance but can also cope with more mainstream cartridges as well. I had one briefly. The sound was fabulous, only reservations were ergonomic - it's just not quite as luxurious to use as the SMEs, Ortofon or Ikeda.

The SAEC WE407 is pretty cool but knife edge, as indeed is the new Jelco TK850 the 12in version of which I rate very highly (wouldn't surprise me if back to back the Jelco managed to better the SME 3012), so might not be the sort of audible change you are looking for. I have a hankering to check out the SAEC and spent some time with the Japanese guys at Munich this year looking at the re-issued version which is astronomically priced.

Personally I'm not the biggest fan of unipivots but there aren't that many with removable headshells anyway, one of the few is the bendy version of the Audiocraft AC3000 ... I didn't rate the one I heard, but arm performance is always highly dependent on what you use them with (cartridge especially but also TT ).

Pics: 12in Ikeda, 12in and 9in Ikedas, Timestep 612 and Ikeda together, Orofon RMG 309 Limited (with FR702 cartridge) and close-up, and SME M2-12R

https://i.imgur.com/UgVg441.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/K2ya356.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8lFMdsv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Jvl11Va.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZBqR3A6.jpg

https://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/Hifi/SME1_zpsu28tlpjq.jpg

[Barry]

+1 for both the Ikeda-modified Ortophon RMG309i and the SME M2-12R. To these I would also add the Brinkmann 10.5, but this is a fixed headshell design. (I use all three arms.)

If you are only interested in an arm with a detachable headshell, I would suggest you also look at the Abis SA-1.2 arm.

[Vrajbasi]

I have a serious soft spot for the IKEDA 407 although they are a bit sample dependant some sound darker and fleshed out and some clean and fast I have owned several over the years also I have had issues with alignment and sticky bearings, even so I love the arm.

The FR66 I own is breath taking truly magical and quite a serious step up from the FR64. Of all the sme3012 arms for me it is still the 3012r truly fabulous this arm sings very fluid of the modern sme arms you want a 312 but aluminium arm tube its far superior to the later s versions, NOS would be best.

I also like the Dynavector 507mk2 I never liked the 505 this arm maybe not the most controlled but has a superb midrange that draws you into the music. If I had to buy new then the sme m12r is a excellent choice lovely to own and use very different to the 3012 a bit more solid and controlled but sacrificing some of the fluidity I have to say it does have a control over lower registers I love. The SAEC arms are superb they tick alot of boxes they have weight and grip but have real air and space. I have heard the new SAEC arm and its stunning.

If I had the budget I would just go and buy Glanz over others no problems with build etc superb no problems with alignment, just stunning in every way very engaging indeed but could be on the pricy side. I have one and for a arm that one can just purchase of the shelf so to speak and with no servicing issues its a sensible choice, lovely weight captivating freedom superb sound stage. The arm is 5k plus so as I said might to be suitable for everyone.

I like the timestep but personally not too keen on using them etc just does not feel as classy for this reason I would prefer the sme m12r.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Wow a real hornets nest. I've had little time today to research tonearms I've been completely stumped putting the 401 back together!

[montesquieu]

I have a serious soft spot for the IKEDA 407 although they are a bit sample dependant some sound darker and fleshed out and some clean and fast I have owned several over the years also I have had issues with alignment and sticky bearings, even so I love the arm.




Yes I would agree with this, my IT-345 CR1 (the chrome finish 9 inch version) wasn't performing its best, this is a post-2011 (post Ikeda's retirement and handover of the company) arm, when I got it looked at it needed some fairly stiff intervention to bring it back to top performance.

By contrast when my IT-407 was looked at - an early one with the brushed finish - it was pronounced to be in perfect health despite being a couple of decades older. (And this chimed with listening to it - which is always a pleasure). Thankfully the IT-345 is also performing beautifully now.

[Vrajbasi]

Yes I would agree with this, my IT-345 CR1 (the chrome finish 9 inch version) wasn't performing its best, this is a post-2011 (post Ikeda's retirement and handover of the company) arm, when I got it looked at it needed some fairly stiff intervention to bring it back to top performance.

By contrast when my IT-407 was looked at - an early one with the brushed finish - it was pronounced to be in perfect health despite being a couple of decades older. (And this chimed with listening to it - which is always a pleasure). Thankfully the IT-345 is also performing beautifully now.

i love the brushed finish of the early ones, your example looks lovely. I have just purchased what is supposed to japanese market 407it from Unique Audio, the arm has a sharper bend and aligns perfectly using the smart tractor, its a superb arm indeed.I have only ever had one 345 thankfully it worked well. Of all the modern Ikeda 407 arms this is the first example I have had zero issues with with getting to to align a spu and other cartridges it does sound rather good.

[JohnG]

I've been looking at some of the Tonearms that have been put forward as suggestions.
It is a good selection from design to price point, there is a lot to consider.
I was wondering about the possibility of another option that I will share, as it is on the topic.
It could also be cost effective, If a Tonearm Brand has a interchangeable arm tube, that can be a 9" and 12".
This would meet the requirements of the OP, but may require a variation to the counterweight and will require a mounting plate that can allow for the positioning of the pillar to suit either arm tube length.
A Audio Technica AT-1100, AT-1120 ( can be found at a fair price) and AT-1010 ( rarer and usually more expensive than the other two models), these all have Detachable Arm Tubes and the ASP-11 Curved Arm Tube having Detachable SME Type Bayonet Head Shells, as a result, offering plenty of options to interchange components in the make up.
If a arm tube could be produced in the length to produce a 12" version, using donor parts from another say
ASP-1 arm tube, this might work if a straight arm is acceptable.
If a Curved Arm Tube was required, a ASP-1 and a little further investigation into how the head shell will attach
would be necessary, in my mind a Female SME Bayonet Socket would be fine.
I know there is a lot of knowledge available about the Audio Technica Tonearms being referred to, so this concept could be put to bed very shortly.

[AJSki2fly]

Thought you might find this interesting as I have just tried out the JELCO TK850M (10") the whole 850 range I have been told is good and very good value at around £1K.

So I have been playing with the Voyd again, this time with a new tone arm that was recommended to me. I have always wanted to try a 10" arm out and so as the Voyd can take one that is what I decided to do. The arm is a new JELCO TK850M. I found fitting it not too bad although setting the arm up needs a little patience, not a job to rush, and I checked everything several times.

I have listened to my 15 or so favourite evaluation tracks and in summary the result I think is this:-

The Jelco TK850M tonearm is very impressive. I expected it to be quite good but maybe not as good as it has turned out. It seems to be an arm that does not clutter or colour the music, far from it the result is a very open soundstage and it seems to get great clarity. I find it more lively than the SME IV that I own, I think that a sense of more rhythm comes to mind and hence it all sounds more musical. From my scoring across the board the Jelco is certainly at least as good as the SME IV, and in my estimation in my set up is pulling more detail out of the groove, maybe this is due to more accurate tracking at 10", and presenting it very nicely. I would give it a 9.5 out of 10, the SME is a low 9.

So to sum up with the right cartridge and turntable in my opinion the Jelco TK850M is a bit of a giant slayer and is an absolute bargain for the cost.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/o708/AJSki2fly/0/0bed3806-a6a7-4cfa-9563-29800d894a57-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/AJSki2fly/p/0bed3806-a6a7-4cfa-9563-29800d894a57)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/o708/AJSki2fly/0/72f1f0c7-7ca4-4891-8bad-54854e3a0186-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/AJSki2fly/p/72f1f0c7-7ca4-4891-8bad-54854e3a0186)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/o708/AJSki2fly/0/de10c02e-191a-493d-b685-718106ce9589-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/AJSki2fly/p/de10c02e-191a-493d-b685-718106ce9589)

[Yorkrise]

Some small points of order. I’ve just finished a spree so I have most of the below.
1 the 12 inch fidelity research. This is the fr66. This goes for silly money these days - about $5000.
2 a stax ua 70 is good but seems lightweight. It’s not that expensive I’ve but some say that the detachable arm tube creates resonance. Make sure the optional additional counterweights come with.
3 the ac3000 is 9 inches - the audio craft 12 incher s are the ac400, ac400 ii and the ac4000. I have an ac400 but haven’t not installed it yet. It’s a unipivot.
4 you might also consider a jasmine audio tp297. This is Chinese but well built. Installing this one next week in my sp10 / Acoustand deck ((huge thanks to Lee).

If you’re interest in getting stuff from Japan directly - and the prices are good but do bear in mind shipping and duty- try zenmarket. It works, but make sure you use PayPal, in case.

Cheers

We

Made.

[Vrajbasi]

Some small points of order. I’ve just finished a spree so I have most of the below.
1 the 12 inch fidelity research. This is the fr66. This goes for silly money these days - about $5000.
2 a stax ua 70 is good but seems lightweight. It’s not that expensive I’ve but some say that the detachable arm tube creates resonance. Make sure the optional additional counterweights come with.
3 the ac3000 is 9 inches - the audio craft 12 incher s are the ac400, ac400 ii and the ac4000. I have an ac400 but haven’t not installed it yet. It’s a unipivot.
4 you might also consider a jasmine audio tp297. This is Chinese but well built. Installing this one next week in my sp10 / Acoustand deck ((huge thanks to Lee).

If you’re interest in getting stuff from Japan directly - and the prices are good but do bear in mind shipping and duty- try zenmarket. It works, but make sure you use PayPal, in case.

Cheers

We

Made.

If you can find a FR66S for $5000 I would buy it like a shot.

[Yorkrise]

My bad. 5000 pounds!

Why though, is it that good? Reports on fr 64 seem mixed ...

Or would you flip it?

B


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulf-2007]

Maybe something like a SAEC with their somewhat crazy one nullpoint geometry and double knife-edge bearing? Or one of the vintage unipivots like Audiocraft or even Stax UA-something (hmm were those even unipivots, I seem to think so)? If going for vintage, there are a crazy amount of Japanese tonearms around, some of them very good, some of them not so, but most of them very well made, though bearings might (probably?) need attention at this point.
Kmm
The Sorane definitely looks interesting, if I had the expendable dough, I'd get one just out of curiosity :)

What about ViV lab rigid float? Completely straight (no offset angle) and very short tonearm with weird bearings for crazy money. How could you go wrong with that :pstax UA-70 is a kind of unipivot but not as wobbly as the usual unipivots. I use one on my Denon DP80, excellent arm.

[paulf-2007]

Some small points of order. I’ve just finished a spree so I have most of the below.
1 the 12 inch fidelity research. This is the fr66. This goes for silly money these days - about $5000.
2 a stax ua 70 is good but seems lightweight. It’s not that expensive I’ve but some say that the detachable arm tube creates resonance. Make sure the optional additional counterweights come with.
3 the ac3000 is 9 inches - the audio craft 12 incher s are the ac400, ac400 ii and the ac4000. I have an ac400 but haven’t not installed it yet. It’s a unipivot.
4 you might also consider a jasmine audio tp297. This is Chinese but well built. Installing this one next week in my sp10 / Acoustand deck ((huge thanks to Lee).

If you’re interest in getting stuff from Japan directly - and the prices are good but do bear in mind shipping and duty- try zenmarket. It works, but make sure you use PayPal, in case.

Cheers

We

Made.
The Stax UA-70 may be lighter than some but I've found it to be very versatile, used it with a Benz wood, Decca C4e and Shure ultra 500, that is my favourite cart. Has an additional counterweight for heavier carts. I'm sure the arm tube can be swapped for a 9" arm tube and the carbon tubes. I have the UA-7 9" arm too but haven't tried the arm tube on the 70 as their us little point when I have both arms. They look to be identical bedsides the tube length. I would like to try a carbon fibre arm tube but it's not cheap or easily available.

[Yorkrise]

I’m hoping to use the ua70 with a dpa80. Can you share a picture . The UA 70 seems very long !

Cheers


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[Wakefield Turntables]

I've been looking at glanz tonearms and these look very good indeed. Any tonearm purchased will be used with a garrard 401. I've even been looking at some of the old ortofon 12" tonearms as these seem to be popular with spu's.

[krugdoktor]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190701/f30028caff134e88138b12372b39d271.jpg

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[Barry]

I've been looking at glanz tonearms and these look very good indeed. Any tonearm purchased will be used with a garrard 401. I've even been looking at some of the old ortofon 12" tonearms as these seem to be popular with spu's.

I would be wary of some of the old Ortofon arms. Despite fetching high prices on eBay, they are relatively primitive (if not agricultural) in both design and construction. If it were me I would have a look at the current Ortofon 12" arms; which are actually made to Ortofon's specification by Jelco. They would be a perfect match with SPUs.

https://www.ortofon.com/ta-210-p-432-n-3448

http://dejavu-audio.com/ortofon-tonearms.html

[Wakefield Turntables]

I would be wary of some of the old Ortofon arms. Despite fetching high prices on eBay, they are relatively primitive (if not agricultural) in both design and construction. If it were me I would have a look at the current Ortofon 12" arms; which are actually made to Ortofon's specification by Jelco. They would be a perfect match with SPUs.

https://www.ortofon.com/ta-210-p-432-n-3448

http://dejavu-audio.com/ortofon-tonearms.html


Thanks Barry I had thought about these.

[paulf-2007]

I’m hoping to use the ua70 with a dpa80. Can you share a picture . The UA 70 seems very long !

Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkmessage me an e mail address and/or mobile number and I'll take some photos tomorrow from the top and side. I can't post on here since photobucket got silly, I haven't found another hosting site that works as easy.

[Yorkrise]

message me an e mail address and/or mobile number and I'll take some photos tomorrow from the top and side. I can't post on here since photobucket got silly, I haven't found another hosting site that works as easy.

Thanks - sure it’s Ben.binnington@googlemail.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[paulf-2007]

Thanks - sure it’s Ben.binnington@googlemail.com


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalksent you one photo, let me know if you get it. I'll send some more tomorrow

[Lucerne]

The Audiocraft 4400/3300 are good arms and have SPU options. The adjustable damping and vta are also useful.
Not Japanese but I have a SPU in an Odyssey 12” arm and sounds decent on a Thorens.

[337alant]

The Micro Sieki MA505 Long is also a very nice tone arm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICRO-MA-505L-Long-Tonearm-with-Subweight-Phono-Cable-F-S/264321905278?hash=item3d8ad0327e:g:WlAAAOSwanBc2j8 P

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-Seiki-MA-505LS-12-Long-Tonearm-Silver-Wiring-VTA-on-the-fly/254198461208?hash=item3b2f68b318:g:hPQAAOSwvhxb58p 8

A standard 9" MA505 version seen off and replaced my SME 3009 mk2

Alan