Hi fi fuse ? Tweek !

[Stormin'Norman]

Long time ago in the mists of time (early 80's) we used to polish off the plating on ordinary fuses and yes we felt it made a difference. Rediscovered this when removing the plug on amps that are going for sale soon. This fuse was polished around 1981 and has not tarnished much if any. Photo may not do justice to shine
Try it and comment, I think I used Brasso
Regards Normanhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190619/47092da141eb93cf02ba2f041f0561ec.jpg

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[alphaGT]

Most interesting! And easy enough to try. Perhaps even some 1500 grit sandpaper to start? And then polish. I’ve heard the testimonies concerning the expensive, multi-hundred dollar fuses, and I’ve wondered how does it sound compared to bypassing the fuse entirely? What if I just replaced the fuse with a copper wire? I realize it’s not safe, and could result in a blown circuit should anything go wrong. But just for the sake of argument, which would sound better? The high dollar fuse, or no fuse at all?

I’m going to try polishing the ends of my fuses and see if I can tell any difference, a tweak that costs nothing!

Russell

[Stormin'Norman]

Think I only had 1200 grit handy back then but any fine grade of sandpaper would be suitable.
Look forward to your findings and if you agree there is a difference why stop at plug fuse. Fused IEC Inlets and internal glass fuses would also be suitable candidates.


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[Gazjam]

Another tip is that when you've sanded and metal polished your fuse tips...
use a degreaser as metal polishes (like Autosol) can leave a film on the end caps.

...not that I've ever tried it of course... or believe that it makes a difference ;)

[Opti-cal]

This is currently of interest to me.

Having replaced all my plug fuses with "cheap" silver coated, de-oxit treated ones with subtle but positive results, I took the next step and tried an AMR gold plated 500mA internal fuse in my Jolida tube DAC.

They're about £12 a pop plus 30-day return policy so no real risk there. On first impressions it has robbed my system of its dynamics so it came straight out and the old original glass one has gone back in and everything has returned to normal.

However its got me thinking that I certainly have enough in line protection before the DAC so why not try a different rated fuse which will have a thicker/thinner element so theoretically more/less resistance which could have an effect on the sound . . . maybe. I'll probably stop "short" of trying a copper wire or something between the terminals although I know people have had positive results wrapping fuses in copper foil etc.

I've ordered some 16A and 20A ceramic fuses to try and also have some 10A glass ones to try too.

I'm not expecting huge improvements but its always fun to try.

[Stormin'Norman]

Two valid opinions by Gazjam and Opti-cal, different but no less valid. My own feelings are that it is a 'suck it and see', at the very least it's a cheap trial of what otherwise can be an expensive non-event if you don't avail of a money back trial.
Certainly has to be worth trying something that only takes a couple of minutes of your time.
Gazjam's input on not leaving any residue much appreciated
Interesting comment from Chris that lower value fuses detracted from his system, never tried polishing internal fuses, yet!! Will probably try it in my power amp this weekend
Looking forward to Chris's observations on different fuse bodies and everyone else who tries polishing fuse bodies

+1 on its fun to try

Norman

[Opti-cal]

lower value fuses detracted from his system

Hi Norman, just to clarify the AMR gold fuse I tried was a straight swap value wise (500mA for 500mA). The fact there was an audible degradation was surprising given that the AMR one "should" be at least equal in performance to the standard original. My pondering relates to trying larger value fuses in place next, as logic dictates that a thicker wire would be better from a power supply perspective (although not from a safety aspect as indicated!).

Although as I understand it anything pre the transformer of the equipment being AC, gets smoothed and regulated to become DC which is where the improvements should come from. So a fuse really "shouldn't" make a difference but this definitely doesn't mean it can't. However making sure the power is as clean as possible even before the transformer can't be a bad thing.

Cleaning with de-oxit etc and treating certainly is no bad move. Fuses can benefit just from being removed and replaced as the friction can remove tiny (sometimes invisible) layers of built up crud.

I've not tried Gazjam's suggestion personally as I've always had new shiny fuses in new shiny plugs! The logic checks out though, nice clean surface, nice clean power.

I think trying a pack of 5 for £5.00 of silver plated, de-oxit treated fuses (choose your value) is worth a punt. Worked for me but like everything in this hobby may not for everyone in their systems . . .

[earsopen]

I read on the RA website that the fuses in their mains cables are there to protect the cable itself. As all of their cables are rated 13 amp, then that is value of the fuse fitted.
They say that a smaller fuse might degrade the sound by increasing impedance.

Obviously if you have a cable supplied with your piece of equipment that has a lower value of fuse, it may be that it is the cable that is only rated for that lower level. Just replacing that fuse with a higher rated fuse may not be the safest thing to do. Over time in my system the original cables that came with each were swapped around so much that the values were muddled which was a potential problem. Now mine are all upgraded cables (and fuses!) so here cables can be swapped around without problem.

Regarding polishing, why would you first use sand paper? However fine it is, there will be scratches (however small) that are unlikely to be polished out with whatever polish you are using. The polish may fill them in though! It was interesting to see how the guardsmen polished their boots before going on parade at the queens official birthday. Scratch them first? I don't think so.

Over the years I have tried many upgraded cables and fuses, but have tried not to comment here on how they changed things as it might have detracted from the argument which is about the effectiveness of polishing fuse end caps. As a mod it is cheap, relatively easy to do and may well be beneficial.

[struth]

you should use a fuse that covers the max rating of the equipment it is connected to. anything over 700 watts is 13 amp(brown fuse). There used to be 5 amp ones but they are rarely used now, except in older gear.
Although it is there to stop the cable melting etc it needs to be set to the equipment power draw.

[Stormin'Norman]

Hi Chris, although I understood perfectly that you were substituting same small value fuses always best to clarify. In Grants example off 700w I personally would use a 5amp as something capable of delivering 3000w i.e. 13 amps may well protect the cable but may be way overated for the bit of kit concerned. Our electrical wholesaler has full range of 1,2,3,5 & 13 amp fuses
The reason I wouldn't use a 3 amp in example is it is running close to its rating and possibly Overheat.
But I think the point here is observe the Manufacturers choice of fuse and not to risk fires or lives
Be safe first people

Norman

[Stormin'Norman]

Just to bring post back on track, what I was actually doing back in the 80's was removing an unnecessary extra layer for the electrons to be conducted through

Norman

[RMutt]

Here is a question for the physicists on the board. If you have a ‘noisy’ mains supply as many have complained about. Would a polished fuse allow the ‘noise’ through more effectively?

[Barry]

Here is a question for the physicists on the board. If you have a ‘noisy’ mains supply as many have complained about. Would a polished fuse allow the ‘noise’ through more effectively?

No, it would make no difference.

[RMutt]

Thanks Barry.

[Pharos]

IMO Grant is spot on, a fuse of the lowest value which works and does not blow on surges, best protects everything.
It will have a higher resistance, but I challenge anyone to even measure it, and it will be very small in comparison with all the other resistances in the cct, even though it may be much thinner than the cables or transformer wire.

Polishing is sensible, but not to remove any protective plating, just the oxide and dirt.

In the 70s my Nelson Jones power amp was fed from a Quad 33 pre, and I used Belling-Lee coax (aerial) plugs and sockets to connect the two. One day I polished all the interfering surfaces, and the sound improved quite considerably, and my friend, then an ITN engineer laughed that such a thing needed to be done to get better sound.

Of course since that time a whole can of worms about all this has been opened.

FWIW the BBC used to use 'nose grease' on fader studs to reduce 'wiping noise', and I do the same with mains fuses, it is acidic, I believe like the battery grease used on car battery terminals. (From the side of one's nose).

[Stormin'Norman]

Agreed that the resistance is of little consequence but the "protective" plating deteriorates as it's not gold in this case, common fuse, and also introduces an extra layer which removing will not so much improve the sound as remove another source of "interference". Back when I first did this I was able to discern an improvement maybe not so much today, I'm 65 and been exposed to noisy work environments.
Now that I think about it when Chris substituted same rating exotic fuses his sound deteriorated, as gold /silver fuse wire is more conductive it occurs to me it would probably be thinner gauge having an effect.
Did I mention that the plugs didn't have partially insulated prongs and also sounded better than the ones we use today ��

[Opti-cal]

Grant - usually spot on to be fair!

I'm working on condensing my replies into simple concise answers like the aforementioned mod. I do tend to ramble around the point a bit . . .

Doing a bit more research its interesting to see the construction of slow vs quick blow fuses. Slow blow tend to look slightly thicker gauge or at least have more material and a "wound" construction. Presumably requiring a longer exposure to the given current to blow.

Considering all points made I'm just going to try ceramic fuses in place of glass ones with all identical values where required. Not expecting much change but worth finding out for less than a fiver.

Back to the thread (apologies for deviation Norman!) - I reckon any electrical contact surface be it plug, cable, pin connection, fuse holder etc will benefit from a de-oxit and (gentle) polishing treatment every once in a while.

Just add up the amount of those in your system though, would be a real PITA . . .

[Stormin'Norman]

There is no such thing as 'Too Much Information' so need for apologies, its all relevant. Looking forward to results of your trial plus observations of everyone that is willing to polish standard fuses and post their results. Glass fuses are possibly more affected by vibration than ceramics

[Pharos]

The benefits of the 'protective layer' are questionable; +'s and -'s, and I doubt that so much scrutiny has ever been dedicated to them in design - until we audiophiles started to question them, and became rich pickings for foo salesmen.

Yes the "Too much information" and IMO the "Over analysing" are both mythical; both produce more and probably useful information which may be excessive at any given moment, but could be useful in the future.

However time may be important in a situation, for eg., the Hudson river air crash, where it was stated that to go through the manual to determine the correct sequence in a protocol would have taken more time than was available before crashing. Similarly, whilst potentially useful in the future, info can be irrelevant to and hence impede immediacy of needed actions.

[Barry]

In general for a mechanical connection, such as a fuse in a fuse carrier, the effective contact surface area through which the current passes, is about 15% of the actual physical area. This is because the two surfaces are never completely smooth, so current only flows via the surface asperities of the two metals. Mechanical polishing will do little to reduce the already low surface roughness and even this small effect will only be of benefit if both contacting surfaces are polished. Increased contact pressure will help to 'crush' the asperities, though to have any real effect the contact pressure needs to be very high: far higher than that achieved in a simple fuse clip.

It is more likely that 'polishing' the end caps of a fuse removes any tarnish due to atmospheric reaction as well as organic monolayer oils (such as finger grease).

Regarding the resistance of a BS1362 fuse, the specification is that the fuse itself (regardless of rating) must dissipate no more than 1 Watt. In practice the resistance is very low, and the reactive inductance negligible. For example a 3A rated fuse consists of a 0.15mm diameter copper wire 25.4mm long. Its resistance is thus 0.025 Ohm.

At 50Hz the skin depth in copper is 9.33mm, so since this is very much larger than the wire radius, the current surface density through the wire is constant. The inductance per unit length is thus the (permeability of free space)/(8 * pi) = 5. 10-8 H/m, so an overall inductance of 1.27 10-9H creating an inductive reactance at 50Hz of 0.4 micro Ohm.

Thus the impedance at 50Hz of a 3A rated BS1362 fuse is 0.025 + j 4 .10-7 Ohm. Comparing this with the typical mains source impedance in the UK (as measured at a wall socket) of 0.25 + j 0.23 Ohm, the additional series impedance of the fuse is negligible.

The above calculations have been done assuming the conductor is at room temperature. Of course, in use the wire in the fuse will heat up so the resistance will increase, but even so the resistance will still be negligible compared with the mains supply source impedance.

[Stormin'Norman]

Hi Barry, good of you to take the 'No such thing as too much information' with enthusiasm to enlighten me :wow:
But seriously good information:clapclapclap:

[Stormin'Norman]

Anyone have a go at removing coating of fuse caps ? Unfortunately I was poorly last few days and only back on all 4 cylinders today

[archiesdad]

Is this oversimplifying it, simply use fuse wire wrapped between the two terminals the fuse is gripped in, removes the need for the glass tube, and polishing.? Eh.

[Stormin'Norman]

Think we are getting into an area I wouldn't recommend aside from difficulty in obtaining good mechanical coupling + the fuse wire will have a coating !!
So cleaning the curved sides of the caps is the way to go
Was checking the fuses in both of my exotic ( to me maybe not to others) power leads and one states Lead Free, wasn't a Bussman but to British Standard

[Barry]

Is this oversimplifying it, simply use fuse wire wrapped between the two terminals the fuse is gripped in, removes the need for the glass tube, and polishing.? Eh.

If we are talking about a mains fuse (i.e. one to BS1362), then the use of a ceramic, not glass, tube is there for safety reasons. In the event of a failure, such as a short circuit, the fuse wire literally explodes and will break the glass tube. A ceramic tube is much stronger and the sand filling helps to dampen the explosive rupture.

It is dangerous and highly irresponsible to suggest one can simply wrap some fuse wire around the fuse clips in a BS1363 plug. It is a potential fire hazard; and if it did cause a fire, your household insurance would be deemed null and void by the insurer.

[anthonyTD]

If the fuses in question have a silver plating, then in theory, when silver oxidise's it should make a better connection, not worse.
For any other plating, then i agree, keeping it as clean as posible will keep the contact resistance to a minimum.
A clean fuse and holder is IMHO a better solution, especialy safety wise' than any so called "HI-FI FUSE" option.
Just my ramblings.
A...

[Barry]

If the fuses in question have a silver plating, then in theory, when silver oxidise's it should make a better connection, not worse.
For any other plating, then i agree, keeping it as clean as posible will keep the contact resistance to a minimum.
A clean fuse and holder is IMHO a better solution, especialy safety wise' than any so called "HI-FI FUSE" option.
Just my ramblings.
A...

Silver oxide (Ag2O) is an insulator, with a resistivity of 10+9 Ohm.m. Any tarnish is more likely to be silver sulphide (Ag2S), initially a pale yellow in colour, becoming darker with time and increasing thickness. It too is a poor conductor (resistivity 1.5 - 2.0 .10-3 Ohm.m, or ~ 105 times that of silver itself). However both are soft and the tarnish layer is easily cut through by simply removing the fuse and reinserting it.

If you really want to use a fuse and not worry about the surface condition of the end caps, then one could always use one of the 'specialist' fuses with gold plated end caps; though I doubt if any of them conform to BS1362, despite what is written on the fuse.

I would always use a fuse that did conform to BS standards, and if need be polish the ends with some Duraglit (or similar).

[anthonyTD]

Well, that's told me Barry, :eek::doh:



There is a widespread misconception that silver oxidizes. This is incorrect. Silver does not oxidize at room temperatures. There also is an equally big misconception that silver oxide is a good conductor, thus tarnished silver connectors do not make a big difference. It is true that silver oxide is conductive, but the tarnish that easily develops on silver plated connectors is not silver oxide, because silver does not oxidize. Instead it is silver sulfide, brown to very dark brown (as opposed to pure black for silver oxide). Silver sulfide is not a conductor, but a semiconductor. Thus the idea that the silver tarnish does not affect the connection is a bad myth.
As for the rest, yes, absolutely! :)
A...
Silver oxide (Ag2O) is an insulator, with a resistivity of 10+9 Ohm.m. Any tarnish is more likely to be silver sulphide (Ag2S), initially a pale yellow in colour, becoming darker with time and increasing thickness. It too is a poor conductor (resistivity 1.5 - 2.0 .10-3, or ~ 105 times that of silver itself). However both are soft and the tarnish layer is easily cut through by simply removing the fuse and reinserting it.

If you really want to use a fuse and not worry about the surface condition of the end caps, then one could always use one of the 'specialist' fuses with gold plated end caps; though I doubt if any of them conform to BS1362, despite what is written on the fuse.

I would always use a fuse that did conform to BS standards, and if need be polish the ends with some Duraglit (or similar).:)

[Stormin'Norman]

Certainly there is erroneous info out there ( the tinternet is full of it) that silver oxide\ tarnish is just as conductive, have read it myself and up to 5 mins ago would have subscribed to that belief. No longer. As always the right way rises to the surface on this forum and I for one am indebted to our more learned friends

[Gaz]

I'll make my position clear at the start, no offence to anyone intended, but I think this is total baloney.

How can polishing a fuse effect anything unless you also polish the fuse holder, inside of the wire clamp in the plug pin, then the plug pin itself, not forgetting the female connector in the socket?

If you're happy it makes a difference then fine it's your time

[Stormin'Norman]

Don't be sitting on the fence :lol:
I see from your signature your not a believer in cables making a difference. Each to there own. No issues, all points of view welcome. I know what I heard years ago, probably not now "Cos I can't hear a difference" anymore. No offence taken or given (I hope)

[Gaz]

Not at all.

I'm sure people are as convinced they hear a difference with cables, fuses, power leads etc as I am that I can't.

Having said that I've never actually tried any mains products so perhaps I shouldn't express an opinion, equally I've never stuck my hand in liquid nitrogen but I still know it would hurt lol

[Barry]

I'll make my position clear at the start, no offence to anyone intended, but I think this is total baloney.

How can polishing a fuse effect anything unless you also polish the fuse holder, inside of the wire clamp in the plug pin, then the plug pin itself, not forgetting the female connector in the socket?

If you're happy it makes a difference then fine it's your time

I already mentioned that both the fuse end caps and the fuse holder clips need to be polished if it is to make any difference. The end cap- fuse holder interface adds about 2 mOhm to the resistance.

[thingfish]

https://i.imgflip.com/34ft6i.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/34ft6i)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

[Discopants]

I believe :uhho:

Im also using a graphene based contact enhancer on all my electrical contacts , including the fuse. :mental:

[Barry]

I believe :uhho:

Im also using a graphene based contact enhancer on all my electrical contacts , including the fuse. :mental:

What is it Martin?

[struth]

Mad scientist?

[Discopants]

It's called total contact by perfect path technologies https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190627/000a729dc07467958018729b38b08eb6.jpg

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[mad-moon]

Bargain...

https://www.perfectpathtechnologies.com/product/total-contact-enhancer

[mad-moon]

Or this from Mr Brook...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NANOTEC-SILVER-CONTACT-PEN-ENHANCER/153288621569?hash=item23b0b6be01:g:2moAAOSwsrlcBVp B

[walpurgis]

Hmm.

[Discopants]

Well I can't speak for the ebay offering but I'm very pleased with my one and it goes a long long way. I've used 0.6ml of the 1.5ml.

I've pasted all power connections in all my components. That's amp, power conditioner, network switch , subwoofer. I've also pasted the tops of any electrolytic capacitors, any bare wiring and a few other selected components including tops of logic chips and dac chips and the top plate of a torroid power supply in the sub. All bare wires in the speakers and their crossovers and speaker connections. Also did a 6 way heavy duty mains block that I now no longer use. Oh and the rca shorting plugs on the inputs I don't use on the amp and sub.

Pasting components not for the faint harted so I've used $120. Doing the whole system , I will do my consumer unit once I get a sparky to fit an isolation switch. The effects are very noticeable improvement as a whole. Takes about 6 to 8 weeks to go off and the improvement develops over that time.

What do I hear ? Lower noise floor some improvements to the soundstage depth and width, so some extra details in familiar tracks. Above all I think it just makes the system sound more natural, more musical.



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[mad-moon]

Well I can't speak for the ebay offering but I'm very pleased with my one and it goes a long long way. I've used 0.6ml of the 1.5ml.

I've pasted all power connections in all my components. That's amp, power conditioner, network switch , subwoofer. I've also pasted the tops of any electrolytic capacitors, any bare wiring and a few other selected components including tops of logic chips and dac chips and the top plate of a torroid power supply in the sub. All bare wires in the speakers and their crossovers and speaker connections. Also did a 6 way heavy duty mains block that I now no longer use. Oh and the rca shorting plugs on the inputs I don't use on the amp and sub.

Pasting components not for the faint harted so I've used $120. Doing the whole system , I will do my consumer unit once I get a sparky to fit an isolation switch. The effects are very noticeable improvement as a whole. Takes about 6 to 8 weeks to go off and the improvement develops over that time.

What do I hear ? Lower noise floor some improvements to the soundstage depth and width, so some extra details in familiar tracks. Above all I think it just makes the system sound more natural, more musical.



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Great stuff...I use Deoxit pro gold..after cleaning with bluehorizon clean-IT..works a treat..used on all connections, plugs and sockets....not a big lay out really...considering how far it goes....and of course I use special hi-fi fuses...and they get cleaned and coated too...

[mad-moon]

It's called total contact by perfect path technologies https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190627/000a729dc07467958018729b38b08eb6.jpg

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can you get this in the UK,,??

[Discopants]

No , not at the moment but you can get it direct from the states fairly easily. I pm’d you with more details.


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[anthonyTD]

What ever you do, don't be tempted to use anything conductive on valve pins, especialy copper slip, yes' i have seen this on a few occasions on equipment in for repair! :doh:
Aparrently certain dealers used to recomend this practice, :scratch: good for repair tech's, not so good for your pocket! :rolleyes:
Just be careful.
A...

[walpurgis]

Yes, the idea of conductive 'goo' on contacts, pins or anything else is a no-no to me.

[Barry]

Or this from Mr Brook...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NANOTEC-SILVER-CONTACT-PEN-ENHANCER/153288621569?hash=item23b0b6be01:g:2moAAOSwsrlcBVp B

Well that's a bit better than $300, but I would like to know a little more about the "Super Squalene Oil" ! Again I have to say that within the context of mains fuses that fit into a 13 plug, attempting to achieve perfect contact between the fuse end caps and the fuse clips will only reduce the already low resistance by about 2 mOhm. Remember the source impedance of the mains supply at the wall socket is about 0.25 Ohm.

Have to say I'm not encouraged by any of these preparations and will stick with Duraglit polish wadding, rubbed off with a dry paper towel, should I feel the need to 'pretty up' the contacts, pins etc.

[Vince]

I use Caig DeOxit or Blue Horizon Clean It to clean my contacts then I treat with Caig ProGold 100% concentrate. I've used this method for years and have always gotten good results. I must confess that I would like to try the Total Contact or even Furutechs contact enhancer. I will do eventually and I will report back chaps.

[Discopants]

What ever you do, don't be tempted to use anything conductive on valve pins, especialy copper slip, yes' i have seen this on a few occasions on equipment in for repair! :doh:
Aparrently certain dealers used to recomend this practice, :scratch: good for repair tech's, not so good for your pocket! :rolleyes:
Just be careful.
A...I have no valves but I know valve users have reported benefits from using total contact, treating sparingly, valve pins and painting the glass at the top of the valves.

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[walpurgis]

painting the glass at the top of the valves

Why?

[Barry]

Why?

My thoughts exactly.

[Discopants]

Why?


Not sure, I’m not a valve guy. Much of the uses are reported from users via experimentation. I do know the product is very efficient at transferring heat as well as electricity. Could that help with valves? Maybe there is a damping effect.


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[anthonyTD]

The reasoning behind my post i thought was self explanatory, :scratch: however; i will spell it out, copperslip, or similar products are very conductive, valve pins have high voltage on them, high voltage can arc between the pins much easier if they have aditional conductive material smeared all over them' and the valve base material itself!
A...
Not sure, I’m not a valve guy. Much of the uses are reported from users via experimentation. I do know the product is very efficient at transferring heat as well as electricity. Could that help with valves? Maybe there is a damping effect.


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[Discopants]

The reasoning behind my post i thought was self explanatory, :scratch: however; i will spell it out, copperslip, or similar products are very conductive, valve pins have high voltage on them, high voltage can arc between the pins much easier if they have aditional conductive material smeared all over them' and the valve base material itself!
A...

Yeah i heard you the first time.

The instructions are use very sparingly.... only paint the bottom portions of male pins. Never put any paste into female sockets and they also instruct that the material is extremely conductive and has to be used carefully in good light. Clean away excess paste with IPA .They do state that you could cause shorts if you don’t follow these instructions carefully.

I have no valves , i did paste some very small components on a modern solid state board. It was scary... I used clean cotton buds sprayed with wd40 contact cleaner whenever i thought my brush went astray. I went a bit extreme with it, it does carry some risk and you need to be careful. However, there are many much lower risk uses for the product and the results are very good IMO. Without a doubt this isn’t a product for everyone....

The experiences thread i followed very carefully before buying and using, has no mention of anyone damaging their system. There were early comments not to use on valve pins as the results were negative. However the same user did try again with very minimal amounts on tips of the pins and said they got a good result. This was subsequently confirmed by others. My instruction manual does not mention valve pins as a potential use, i see they do now have it as a use on the website though...

Be careful if you want to try it on your systems, and make sure you work disconnected from the mains!


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[Marco]

Yeah i heard you the first time.


Excuse me, Martin. We don't communicate so curtly with each other here. The dismissive way you've just replied to Anthony is rather rude, so kindly be more polite in future when someone [who knows what he's talking about] is just trying to help!

Marco.

[mad-moon]

Woah...steady on there Marco...everybody's firing at him... why why why....and he politely answered he did not know as he wasn't a valve guy, then someone started to spell it out to him....which in itself is a bit on the clever dicky side....and what the hell has copper slip got to do with it...confusing apples with oranges and smearing it all over..this stuff is brushed on extremely sparingly.....as usual....just because the doubters and non believers don't agree...it can't be right.....you all have your six shooters drawn and just keep shooting the guy down.....every bloody time something appears about a mains upgrade be it fuses...cables or any mains products for that matter......it can't be measured...it can't be this and it can't be that...you shouldn't be wasting your money on something that cannot possibly work....

[Discopants]

Thank you Alan.


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[Marco]

Sorry, Alan, none of that excuses the curt way he addressed one of the moderators of this forum, and a very good friend of mine who was only trying to help. I'm focussing *solely* on that response, regardless of what occurred before it, which TBH, I haven't read as the product is of no interest to me.

So, never mind thanking Alan, Martin. I would like you to apologise for being rather rude and promise that you won't do that again. It is not the AoS way.

Marco.

[Pharos]

Copperslip's primary properties are as a lubricant, especially in heated cases like exhaust systems.

I have never hear of WD40 contact cleaner, but the usual wd40 is a water displacer, hence 'wd' and a rather poor lubricant, hence its use for door locks.

[mad-moon]

Sorry Marco......your moderators comments were directed at the wrong person.. in a curt manner...He was not the one asking why why why...( your mod quoted him in the post..Martin was just answering the why why why's and politely at that saying he wasn't sure )and saying he heard him the first time. He was not the one that needed it spelling out to him......He then politely went on to explain how the stuff is meant to be used....i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree....it's sad when it sinks to this....every god damned time this subject of mains products comes up...all the experts raise their heads....I notice all the experts ask for proof..but don't supply proof as to why it cannot possibly work...It can't be proved, doesn't mean it can't work..I have no proof...only what I hear with mine own ears...and it's always the same old members..shoving their point down the posters necks......

[Discopants]

Wow. [emoji50]

I think you are blowing this up a bit Marco to be honest.

My use of words may come over as a bit curt, but then so is someone literally saying they will spell “something out for me” in response to my reply to a different poster. I didn’t request clarification and like I had already said I don’t have valves. M

Your not interested in that context though as you have confessed , because he’s your mate and on the staff he is allowed to be patronising I guess, is that how it works here?

Although I don’t have valves , in response to Antony’s apparent concerns. I did go to some lengths to give as much context to the use of this product safely for all concerned.

Martin

[Marco]

Alan, please do not question moderating decisions, which are final, or we will fall out, so please leave it there!

Ant further responses of that nature will be deleted.

Marco.

[Discopants]

Copperslip's primary properties are as a lubricant, especially in heated cases like exhaust systems.

I have never hear of WD40 contact cleaner, but the usual wd40 is a water displacer, hence 'wd' and a rather poor lubricant, hence its use for door locks.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190628/60638613c80393c2fc9862606fc7818f.jpg

Its this stuff, IPA and a bit of hexane, nothing like the lubricant.



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[Marco]

Wow. [emoji50]

I think you are blowing this up a bit Marco to be honest.

My use of words may come over as a bit curt...

Not blowing it up at all, Martin. We're very strict on that sort of thing here, and *insist* on people being polite to each other at all times. Now, I have no problem whatsoever with anything else you wrote, which was perfectly polite, except that bit.

So please, in future, learn to defend your point of view and discuss things with others without being so curt, and there will be no problems:)

Marco.

[Discopants]

:thumbsup:


Not blowing it up at all, Martin. We're very strict on that sort of thing here, and *insist* on people being polite to each other at all times. Now, I have no problem whatsoever with anything else you wrote, which was perfectly polite, except that bit.

So please, in future, learn to defend your point of view and discuss things with others without being so curt, and there will be no problems:)

Marco.

[mad-moon]

Copperslip's primary properties are as a lubricant, especially in heated cases like exhaust systems.

I have never hear of WD40 contact cleaner, but the usual wd40 is a water displacer, hence 'wd' and a rather poor lubricant, hence its use for door locks.

Yeah...when this stuff was initially marketed...it was a water displacement liquid and not really a good lubricant at all..it was and still is a good penetrant too...but the WD40 part of it is a trade name and they make all kinds of products now...

[gwernaffield]

try this one if needed https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Servisol-Super-10/273908220882?epid=1075544838&hash=item3fc633c3d2:g:DqsAAOSwoCtdFhOc

[anthonyTD]

Hi Alan,
My comments on this thread were not intended to cause confusion, insult, or as you put it, clever dickery, the reason i mentioned copperslip, and similar products is because i actualy care about people, and the equipment they use, i have been in this industry for near aproaching 25 years, and have seen all sorts in that time, where posible, i will try and share some of those experiences, this was one of those paticular times.
A...
Woah...steady on there Marco...everybody's firing at him... why why why....and he politely answered he did not know as he wasn't a valve guy, then someone started to spell it out to him....which in itself is a bit on the clever dicky side....and what the hell has copper slip got to do with it...confusing apples with oranges and smearing it all over..this stuff is brushed on extremely sparingly.....as usual....just because the doubters and non believers don't agree...it can't be right.....you all have your six shooters drawn and just keep shooting the guy down.....every bloody time something appears about a mains upgrade be it fuses...cables or any mains products for that matter......it can't be measured...it can't be this and it can't be that...you shouldn't be wasting your money on something that cannot possibly work....

[anthonyTD]

No worries!:)
Yeah i heard you the first time.


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[mad-moon]

Hi Alan,
My comments on this thread were not intended to cause confusion, insult, or as you put it, clever dickery, the reason i mentioned copperslip, and similar products is because i actualy care about people, and the equipment they use, i have been in this industry for near aproaching 25 years, and have seen all sorts in that time, where posible, i will try and share some of those experiences, this was one of those paticular times.
A...

Yes I understand that safety is paramount...and I did have a rant I know...I'm just so so tired of the replies where certain people, the same people over and over again, who are constanatly knocking new ideas regards hifi upgrade products, saying they are a rip off...there's no such thing as a hifi fuse, how can that possibly work, you don't want to buy that, it's too expensive and cannot possibly be any better than a £2.50 cable..or a 10p fuse because it has the british kite mark on it...it's only a piece of copper wire transfering a signal..how can another piece of wire be different....If they can't say anything positive or encouraging..or don't like the fact that they don't like the idea, that they think the punters are being ripped off by supposed greedy hifi dealers..stay off the thread...It's like watching a TV....don't bitch about what's on the TV... Don't watch it..turn it over...or even off.. I wonder if putting a stop to cable / mains upgrades discussions should be banned from the site, because everytime a thread is raised it turns ugly, and I mean every time..?

[struth]

i dont care what folk think of my opinions on my stereo.:lol: what i hear i hear, and if no-one b elieves me... tough titties on them, they can go spend a fortune on what they like.
As for mains stuff, ive not really done much experimenting so far but others have who say it can help. But the big difference with mains stuff is that you should be aware of the potential dangers, as you often dont get a second chance.
I say that as an electronic engineer....Ive b een electrocuted and ive seen stuff go on fire; ive seen things that would scare you rigid :eyebrows:
So if someone politely mentions safety, just agree they have a right and duty to mention it.:)

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Yes I understand that safety is paramount...and I did have a rant I know...I'm just so so tired of the replies where certain people, the same people over and over again, who are constanatly knocking new ideas regards hifi upgrade products, saying they are a rip off...there's no such thing as a hifi fuse, how can that possibly work, you don't want to buy that, it's too expensive and cannot possibly be any better than a £2.50 cable..or a 10p fuse because it has the british kite mark on it...it's only a piece of copper wire transfering a signal..how can another piece of wire be different....If they can't say anything positive or encouraging..or don't like the fact that they don't like the idea, that they think the punters are being ripped off by supposed greedy hifi dealers..stay off the thread...It's like watching a TV....don't bitch about what's on the TV... Don't watch it..turn it over...or even off.. I wonder if putting a stop to cable / mains upgrades discussions should be banned from the site, because everytime a thread is raised it turns ugly, and I mean every time..?

The manufacturers of said hifi fuses, need to state clearly what their product offers in terms of technology which is different to a normal fuse.
Until then the end user cannot rely, on their marketing strategy alone, or simply a leap of faith.

For instance within a the space a fuse occupies the manufacturer might be placing semiconductors assisting AC delivery. Some disclosure different to a normal fuse
whilst retaining the protection of a normal fuse is needed, if we are to take such things seriously.

[walpurgis]

Regardless of topic, nobody should be put off expressing a contrary view in a debate. There's no need for anybody to take a combative stance. Politeness works both ways. Hi-Fi is notorious for 'strange' products and ideas, some are no doubt valid and others maybe less so. If questions are asked or doubts are raised that's all part of it and should be accepted without anybody getting their feathers ruffled.

[mad-moon]

i dont care what folk think of my opinions on my stereo.:lol: what i hear i hear, and if no-one b elieves me... tough titties on them, they can go spend a fortune on what they like.
As for mains stuff, ive not really done much experimenting so far but others have who say it can help. But the big difference with mains stuff is that you should be aware of the potential dangers, as you often dont get a second chance.
I say that as an electronic engineer....Ive b een electrocuted and ive seen stuff go on fire; ive seen things that would scare you rigid :eyebrows:
So if someone politely mentions safety, just agree they have a right and duty to mention it.:)

Yes that's paramount, the safety side of things for everyone I agree 100%..the majority of gear has internal fuses..all UK plugs have fuses, then you have the consumer unit with RCD's, which will probably trip even before the fuse blows... so I think we are pretty well protected...it would have to be something down right stupid to cause a disaster..

[mad-moon]

The manufacturers of said hifi fuses, need to state clearly what their product offers in terms of technology which is different to a normal fuse.
Until then the end user cannot rely, on their marketing strategy alone, or simply a leap of faith.

For instance within a the space a fuse occupies the manufacturer might be placing semiconductors assisting AC delivery. Some disclosure different to a normal fuse
whilst retaining the protection of a normal fuse is needed, if we are to take such things seriously.

That could be said about the claims made about any item manufactured today...

[struth]

Yes that's paramount, the safety side of things for everyone I agree 100%..the majority of gear has internal fuses..all UK plugs have fuses, then you have the consumer unit with RCD's, which will probably trip even before the fuse blows... so I think we are pretty well protected...it would have to be something down right stupid to cause a disaster..

yup, but stupid things happen unfortunately. I know you cant stop it but you can try... I have personal knowledge of this as I remember telling a guy to fix his ariel if he wanted a better picture.
He got a set of long ladders, and carried them down street and touched an overhead cable(which were low in this place) 14kv went through him and killed him... a stupid error by him, but it never obviously occured to him(it would have to me) so a guy is dead, a family lost their dad... You see where im coming from?

[Pharos]

I do care about what others think of my own sound, because we can 'go into a world of our own', and lose contact with reality.

It is of interest to compare equipment and strategies, and views on what works and is valid.

In my apprenticeship one fellow apprentice connected a large electrolytic the wrong way round, the result, a red hot smoking roll of aluminium travelling about ten feet across the lab.

[mad-moon]

yup, but stupid things happen unfortunately. I know you cant stop it but you can try... I have personal knowledge of this as I remember telling a guy to fix his ariel if he wanted a better picture.
He got a set of long ladders, and carried them down street and touched an overhead cable(which were low in this place) 14kv went through him and killed him... a stupid error by him, but it never obviously occured to him(it would have to me) so a guy is dead, a family lost their dad... You see where im coming from?

Yes that is very sad Grant albeit a bit of an extreme example..yeah keep pushing home the safety aspect for definite don't work on gear that is plugged is an obvious bit of advice, I agree...and If your not savvy yourself, get someone who is to do it for you.. but the comparisons are sometimes really stupid...If I fill my car up with petrol from a gold plated petrol pump/hose...from a previuos cable discussion...will my car run any better??..just to mention one...

[struth]

Yes that is very sad Grant albeit a bit of an extreme example..yeah keep pushing home the safety aspect for definite don't work on gear that is plugged is an obvious bit of advice, I agree...and If your not savvy yourself, get someone who is to do it for you.. but the comparisons are sometimes really stupud...If I fill my car up with petrol from a gold plated petrol pump/hose...from a previuos cable discussion...will my car run any better??..just to mention one...

i agree, that those comments are not constructive. if they are out of order moderation will kick in. thats our job tho, and not that of others, otherwise you end up with fights.
This is a subjective orientated forum(part of the ethos) and although objectivity has its place, it wont be allowed to take over.

[struth]

oh and each year about 1000 accidents at work involving electric shock or burns are reported to the Health and Safety Executive (HSE). Around 30 of these are fatal. Most of these fatalities arise from contact with overhead or underground power cables. Even non-fatal shocks can cause severe and permanent injury.
So although not common its not unheard of. Good knowledge cant be a bad thing.

[Discopants]

Peace and love [emoji177]

I’ve also been electrocuted, stuck a knife into a toaster when I was 10. I want everyone to be safe and not damage their beloved hifi. I think the fuses are pretty safe especially if you have a fairly modern consumer unit.

A guy I work with actually has no plug fuses in his system , he ran a dedicated mains fitted a small consumer unit and all his plugs and sockets on the system are 15 amp round pin plugs. The mcb is the switch. He’s not an idiot

I’ve got 4 of those SR blue fuses plus a few others and Im a fan. However the combined effect of the contact enhancer is delivering much more musical delight than the sum total of all the fuse upgrades in my system.

I’ve seen a lot of improvements tweaking the mains, its possibly because I have a marine fish tank on the same ring. So much kit in there and its mostly DC. I really should look at a dedicated consumer unit but it will be a big job to retro it in now.






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[Macca]

I think any thread about a product whose efficacy is controversial (and for me that includes any 'mains-related product') should have both sides of the argument presented. That way any third party who is pondering spending money on such items can read all opinions and make their own mind up. One of the problems with the magazines is that they take for granted that these things work and so anyone reading them would assume there is a consensus amongst hi-fi enthusiasts about that when there really isn't.

At least with forums the topic can be debated and the arguments for and against represented.

[struth]

I think any thread about a product whose efficacy is controversial (and for me that includes any 'mains-related product') should have both sides of the argument presented. That way any third party who is pondering spending money on such items can read all opinions and make their own mind up. One of the problems with the magazines is that they take for granted that these things work and so anyone reading them would assume there is a consensus amongst hi-fi enthusiasts about that when there really isn't.

At least with forums the topic can be debated and the arguments for and against represented.

Agree, and you have to remember the warnings etc are not just for members benefit but all the folk who casualy read this on web and think its easy and always safe. Even unplugged an amplifier can kill

[Marco]

Regardless of topic, nobody should be put off expressing a contrary view in a debate. There's no need for anybody to take a combative stance. Politeness works both ways. Hi-Fi is notorious for 'strange' products and ideas, some are no doubt valid and others maybe less so. If questions are asked or doubts are raised that's all part of it and should be accepted without anybody getting their feathers ruffled.

That's *exactly* it in nutshell, and how this forum will always be strictly moderated!

You also need to be able to handle someone (politely) challenging your 'world view' and not get indignant about it. That's the key for both 'believers' and 'non believers' of what has become affectionately known as "foo"!;)

Marco.

[Marco]

i agree, that those comments are not constructive. if they are out of order moderation will kick in. thats our job tho, and not that of others, otherwise you end up with fights.
This is a subjective orientated forum(part of the ethos) and although objectivity has its place, it wont be allowed to take over.

Yup, that's another very important point. *NEVER* become a self-appointed moderator and get involved in fights you shouldn't. If you think someone is behaving inappropriately, that's what the REPORT POST button is for [little black triangle at bottom left of all posts], so use it, and it will alert us to the situation, where we will then intervene.

Furthermore, do remember that once a moderating decision has been taken, it is FINAL and not up for further debate. And anyone who ignores that, and persists with 'backchat', will risk a ban.

Marco.

[Marco]

I think any thread about a product whose efficacy is controversial (and for me that includes any 'mains-related product') should have both sides of the argument presented.

Absolutely, but the *KEY* is to stick solely to arguing the subject and not make things personal. Play the ball, not the MAN...

That's the problem with most of these discussions, as folks on both sides of the fence often can't resist resulting to name-calling, when one refuses to believe what the other wants them to believe!

Learn to be more tolerant and respectful towards views that don't appease your sensibilities, or that challenge your own [often rigidly held] belief system:)

However, as stated many times in the past, AoS is a staunchly subjectivist forum, and so ultimately ears will always matter more than measurements!

Marco.

[Stormin'Norman]

If we can come back on topic where my suggestion was to remove, at no cost bar a little time, the removing of plating on the fuse caps, exposing copper.
Would someone try it and give their opinion please.
If we can establish if its of benefit as a benchmark then see/hear what gains are to be had by treatments etc.
If, as I believe, it is a positive result it would possibly encourage people to try more expensive fuses. Yes I understand that 30 day trials are available but will they be a major improvement on exposed copper cap fuses ? I think we have to experience fuses with coating removed to properly evaluate the Hi-fi fuses that are available.

[Discopants]

Sorry to derail the thread Norman, I was really only intending to support your efforts to challenge and try things.

I can’t partake as I pasted my fuses. Stay safe.




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[thingfish]

Relax Norman, since im working Nightshift and have a radio in the workshop and since I won't actually be wasting any of my own time, I will give it a go.
Will report back me findings later tonight.

[Stormin'Norman]

Yes Martin, no apologies required as it seems quite normal to have opposing views aired but we all need to be receptive to any ideas which might have some merit or not and tear up the dogma rulebook
Hi Alan, appreciate you making the effort to push the boundaries.
Bit more action required people ;)

[Gaz]

I think the main problem is people thinking that their point of view or opinion is just as valid as everybody else's

The sooner everybody gets to grips with the fact that I'm right and, unless you agree with me. you are by definition wrong, the better.

Have we all got that ?

Thank you



That was a joke BTW

[alphaGT]

I read some, but not all of the nearly 200 posts, so forgive me if this has been covered.

What if you solder the fuse in? Remove the chrome covering, expose the copper cap, and add just a tiny spot of solder at each end cap and the fuse holder?

This needs to be done with care, as to not overheat the fuse filament. I’m sure I’ve seen glass fuses soldered in at some point in my travels? Of course we wouldn’t want to do this on the main fuses that have a push and twist holder on the rear of our equipment, that would defeat their purpose of convenience.

Russell

[Barry]

I read some, but not all of the nearly 200 posts, so forgive me if this has been covered.

What if you solder the fuse in? Remove the chrome covering, expose the copper cap, and add just a tiny spot of solder at each end cap and the fuse holder?

This needs to be done with care, as to not overheat the fuse filament. I’m sure I’ve seen glass fuses soldered in at some point in my travels? Of course we wouldn’t want to do this on the main fuses that have a push and twist holder on the rear of our equipment, that would defeat their purpose of convenience.

Russell

I think we are talking about the fuses that fit into the UK 13A plugs; so soldering is not really an option here.

In the second post on this thread, you said you would try polishing the end caps of some fuses and see if it made a difference. Did you, and does it?

[alphaGT]

I think we are talking about the fuses that fit into the UK 13A plugs; so soldering is not really an option here.

In the second post on this thread, you said you would try polishing the end caps of some fuses and see if it made a difference. Did you, and does it?

Yes I know I said I’m going to, and I still plan to. But I’m still recovering from major surgery, and I’m still not able to get back behind the rack and get to my fuses. But I do feel it a well worth the effort idea! So give me a month, and I’ll give it a try.

The idea of putting a spec of solder, I’m thinking more of circuit board mounted glass fuses like found in preamps, and CD players. I do realize the big fuses on our amps, with the screw in holders, wouldn’t work in that regard. Just brain storming, as I’m laid up I’ve got plenty of time to think.

Russell

[thingfish]

Well I polished me fuse and plug top pins and guess what .........
No difference heard.
I then sprayed em with contact cleaner and low and behold........
No difference heard.

:scratch:

[YNWaN]

I’ve tried ‘audiophile’ fuses in my system (I needed six for one source) and I couldn’t detect any change, neither better nor worse. Oh, these were the component fuses, not the mains plug fuses and I swapped for the correct value and type.

[Marco]

If you've tried these things and you don't hear a difference, that's cool, and that result is just as valid as that of anyone who's reported the opposite. Similarly, just because you can't hear a difference, doesn't mean that there isn't one, and of course conversely it's also true that if you did hear a difference, it might not be real...;)

As long as you're open to both the possibility of having imagined a difference, when there isn't one, as much as accepting that you heard a difference, even though you didn't want to believe there would be, you can say that you have an open mind...

Marco.

[anthonyTD]

Hi Alan,
That's fine, and for the record, where certain "upgrades" are concerned, i tend to not get involved, as unless there is conclusive proof its all subjective, and down to what we experience on a personal level.
When there is a safety element involved, i will pass on my concerns. In this case, i suspected that there may be folk reading this thread who use valve equipment, and just wanted to point out the posible dangers of using these conductive pastes on parts of equipment that carry high voltage, this also applies to mains fuses, and plugs etc.
My appologies to the OP for taking this thread slightly off track too.
A...

Yes I understand that safety is paramount...and I did have a rant I know...I'm just so so tired of the replies where certain people, the same people over and over again, who are constanatly knocking new ideas regards hifi upgrade products, saying they are a rip off...there's no such thing as a hifi fuse, how can that possibly work, you don't want to buy that, it's too expensive and cannot possibly be any better than a £2.50 cable..or a 10p fuse because it has the british kite mark on it...it's only a piece of copper wire transfering a signal..how can another piece of wire be different....If they can't say anything positive or encouraging..or don't like the fact that they don't like the idea, that they think the punters are being ripped off by supposed greedy hifi dealers..stay off the thread...It's like watching a TV....don't bitch about what's on the TV... Don't watch it..turn it over...or even off.. I wonder if putting a stop to cable / mains upgrades discussions should be banned from the site, because everytime a thread is raised it turns ugly, and I mean every time..?

[Primalsea]

Yes I know I said I’m going to, and I still plan to. But I’m still recovering from major surgery, and I’m still not able to get back behind the rack and get to my fuses. But I do feel it a well worth the effort idea! So give me a month, and I’ll give it a try.

The idea of putting a spec of solder, I’m thinking more of circuit board mounted glass fuses like found in preamps, and CD players. I do realize the big fuses on our amps, with the screw in holders, wouldn’t work in that regard. Just brain storming, as I’m laid up I’ve got plenty of time to think.

Russell

If it was a self-wire UK plug you could conceivably solder the fuse in after cleaning the contacts. May have to remove the fuse holders if the plug is plastic rather than ceramic.

Other than increased contact area that is less susceptible to degradation I’m not sure how it would make things sound better.

[Stormin'Norman]

Ok, a result from the Scottish Jury posted. Neel pointes awarded ( apologies to Eurovision fans:eyebrows: yeah right)

[Barry]

Yes I know I said I’m going to, and I still plan to. But I’m still recovering from major surgery, and I’m still not able to get back behind the rack and get to my fuses. But I do feel it a well worth the effort idea! So give me a month, and I’ll give it a try.

The idea of putting a spec of solder, I’m thinking more of circuit board mounted glass fuses like found in preamps, and CD players. I do realize the big fuses on our amps, with the screw in holders, wouldn’t work in that regard. Just brain storming, as I’m laid up I’ve got plenty of time to think.

Russell

Ah yes - sorry I had forgotten about your recent surgery. There's no rush. For the record, I did once try polishing the end caps of a mains fuse after reading about it in an audio magazine. At the same time I also polished the pins of the plug. Can't say it made the slightest difference. Neither did trying out a 'Hi Fi Tuning UK Gold' 13A fuse, and since in those days I had access to liquid nitrogen, 'cryocooling' or annealing the fuse made no difference either.

As I said in a previous post, with most mechanical contacts, the effective contact area is about 15% of the actual physical contact area. I doubt if polishing a fuse will do much to reduce the surface asperities and increase the contact area, but using some form of conducting fluid to fill in the interstices might help. Would it make an audible difference? I doubt it: all you would be doing is to reduce an already low contact resistance of ~ 2 milliohm to one of about 0.3 milliohm.

[Discopants]

Barry

I don't think it's just about resistance, the total contact users say the product reduces microarching. They believe that microarching contributes to noise, possibly even radio frequency.

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[thingfish]

https://i.imgflip.com/34nqg1.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/34nqg1)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

[Discopants]

You may laugh Alan, but when I listen to my system it makes me smile and its definitely improved by the contact enhancer.


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[thingfish]

Okay Martin, if you perceive an improvement that's cool.

Enjoy the music.......:cool:

[alphaGT]

Ah yes - sorry I had forgotten about your recent surgery. There's no rush. For the record, I did once try polishing the end caps of a mains fuse after reading about it in an audio magazine. At the same time I also polished the pins of the plug. Can't say it made the slightest difference. Neither did trying out a 'Hi Fi Tuning UK Gold' 13A fuse, and since in those days I had access to liquid nitrogen, 'cryocooling' or annealing the fuse made no difference either.

As I said in a previous post, with most mechanical contacts, the effective contact area is about 15% of the actual physical contact area. I doubt if polishing a fuse will do much to reduce the surface asperities and increase the contact area, but using some form of conducting fluid to fill in the interstices might help. Would it make an audible difference? I doubt it: all you would be doing is to reduce an already low contact resistance of ~ 2 milliohm to one of about 0.3 milliohm.

Once you’ve removed the chrome and found bare copper, I don’t suppose soldering would make it sound any better. But, it would preserve that sound for a long time. And solve that issue with contact area, maximizing contact, no microarching. Was what I was thinking anyway.

What you were saying about contact enhancers, I was thinking on the rear screw in fuse holders where we can’t solder, I wonder about the silver paste? (Same thing?) They sell it at Audio Adviser, supposedly to rub on the ends of your RCA connectors, again, to maximize contact area. So, what if a dab was added to each end of the fuse? Not free, but still a cheap tweak. Just spit balling, taking it to the next level. If someone has some silver paste laying around, it may be worth a try?

Russell

[Primalsea]

...it makes me smile and its definitely improved by the contact enhancer.

I’ll have to try a bit of that next time me and the missus go away for the weekend.

[mad-moon]

I’ll have to try a bit of that next time me and the missus go away for the weekend.

Just make sure you switch your hifi off and unplug it from the wall before you go....

[Barry]

What's all this "microarching" (sic)? I assume you mean 'microarcing', but how can you get a voltage gradient of 3MV/m to cause arcing between one part of the fuse end-cap and holder, when other parts of the assembly are in electrical contact, and thereby short out any voltage gradient?

If you feel the use of contact enhancer improves your system, then that is all that really matters: it's your system, your ears and your money. :)

[Discopants]

Hmm ok Barry , will bow to your greater knowledge , no doubt thats what caused Alan to chuckle too.




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[Pharos]

Agree with 110, it used to be a rule of thumb that arcing occurred in air only when the voltage gradient approached 1kV per mm.

[Marco]

What's all this "microarching" (sic)?

You must've heard of the famous Archie McRoar?

Marco.

[walpurgis]

Probably not quite the same thing, but if I recall, metal surfaces with different potentials create 'microwelds' when slid or pressed together.

[Stormin'Norman]

Correct me if I'm wrong but in any interface of different metals can lead to potential differences, thermocouples being one example where the effect is desirable, not so much in hifi as may add more noise. Hence the removal of fuse plating.
Silver solder being less harmful to signals than standard solder being virtually indisputable, though I'm sure someone will :)

[mad-moon]

:zzz:

[YNWaN]

Probably not quite the same thing, but if I recall, metal surfaces with different potentials create 'microwelds' when slid or pressed together.

Only under high pressure and, often, the presence of an electrolyte.

[YNWaN]

Correct me if I'm wrong but in any interface of different metals can lead to potential differences...

Well, yes and no. The key words in the above quoted sentence are ‘can’ and “potential’ - it’s certainly not a given that the differences you allude to will be created, or even have the potential to be created. Bi-metallic strips and the like are very much extreme examples and not a model for fuse plating etc.

[Macca]

Even if you could demonstrate that difference you've then got to demonstrate how it affects the varying voltage going down the speaker cables to the drive units. After it has passed through the amplifier. And then you've got to show that makes a difference to what we are actually perceiving. If there is really something going on it is the realms of the unknown unknowns. So good luck with the scientific explanations.

[Stormin'Norman]

Not seeing how bimetallic strips that bend due to different rates of expansion when heated, as in a toaster browning control, is comparable to potential differences generated by heat across two joined ( usually soldered) different metals and used, for example, in Autoclaves Ovens for temp measurements and this potential difference is also at room temp, although not as pronounced. I will though concede that they are very small voltages. :)

[Primalsea]

I think that whatever fuses may do to improve the sound microarcing is not anything to do with it. Your whole mains wiring system is full of electrical connections that relay upon compressive force to keep a good connection. Plugs and sockets, the screw connections in junction boxes, connections in the consumer unit, IEC socket connections... if microarcing was an issue it would be happening everywhere and it would eventually ruin all the connections. We just don’t see this and house wiring connections stay reliable for decades.

[Vince]

I think that whatever fuses may do to improve the sound microarcing is not anything to do with it. Your whole mains wiring system is full of electrical connections that relay upon compressive force to keep a good connection. Plugs and sockets, the screw connections in junction boxes, connections in the consumer unit, IEC socket connections... if microarcing was an issue it would be happening everywhere and it would eventually ruin all the connections. We just don’t see this and house wiring connections stay reliable for decades.

100% agree, as long as there is a point of contact, no matter how small as long as it is a constant contact......you will experience no arcing.

[JohnG]

I'm not sure if this tweak has been presented in the previous posts, but I have read recently, that damping the sleeve between the metal ends can have a noticeable effect.
The method I read, was to wrap the fuse sleeve in masking tape, leaving about 1mm spacing next to the metal end parts, so the metal end parts are not covered by any tape.
If damping the sleeve is a tweak that has a effect viewed as a improvement, maybe a 'O' Ring placed on the fuse sleeve as a alternative damping, might deliver a noticeable effect.

[walpurgis]

OK if you want to start a fire I guess.

[JohnG]

If my suggestion is leading to A FIRE RISK !!
I ask the moderators to remove it.
Apologies, as I had seen nothing to suggest there was a increased risk, by carrying out such a procedure.

[Stormin'Norman]

I think that whatever fuses may do to improve the sound microarcing is not anything to do with it. Your whole mains wiring system is full of electrical connections that relay upon compressive force to keep a good connection. Plugs and sockets, the screw connections in junction boxes, connections in the consumer unit, IEC socket connections... if microarcing was an issue it would be happening everywhere and it would eventually ruin all the connections. We just don’t see this and house wiring connections stay reliable for decades.

Regrettably not always the case. Was in girlfriends house 48 years ago and unplugged something and the plug was distinctly warm/hot. Further examination of socket revealed that cabling was no longer securely fixed by the grub screw. Apparently this happened due to this socket always having vacuum cleaner plugged in and out over a number of years and the faint vibration of this action resulted in screw loosening. It was also discovered that there was no earth wire on the ring main ! But that's another story.
As result I check the cable fixing screws on sockets that have plugs in and out on a regular basis every couple of years, but I can be anal about some things :)

[JohnG]

If I recall a conversation I was involved in a few years past, it had nothing to do with a HiFi Mains Power Supply, just a description of faults that can be found during a electricians property inspection.
A electrician told me that one of the cables in the wall socket can become loose, as the hertz has got the capability to loosen a cable retaining screw.
Hence a Landlord has a property certified for the electrics, and the electrician would remove the wall socket fascia and check the tightness of the cable retaining screws as part of a inspection.

[Gazjam]

Having been there and done it...and have hifi fuses in my system and would’t change em despite what anyone on a Forum may shout about...
They make a positive difference.

If in doubt, try for yourself...30 day mail order warranty applies.
These things do make a positive difference, see what you think?

[sailor]

Hi guys,

New here. Reading the thread I see mention of the Synergistic Research fuses. Has anybody tried some of the less expensive types like Shurter, Aucharm or AMR

In this game I believe everything matters, including fuses.

[Blueflash]

I use the Schurter SMD-SPT fuses for the inside of my projects. They are gold plated and are ceramic bodied which means that they cannot shatter like the glass ones.
I wonder if the micro arcing idea got put around by the articles written by Ben Duncan ages ago. He was talking about the difference between 6ka and 10ka MCB`s. The larger ones had a bigger contact area and would be less susceptible to micro arcing.
He also mentioned that the larger MCB`s were less likely to admit RFI into the mains when the AC crosses over the No volt threshold because micro arcing can cause tiny detector diodes to form on the contacts.

[DiggyGun]

The only purpose of the fuse is to protect the cable and equipment in the event of a fault. If you replace the fuse with a higher rated fuse and there is a fault it will not protect the cable or equipment. Consequently, there will be damage and potentially a fire. Coupled with the fact, that you’ve just invalidated your home insurance.

[Pharos]

I would suggest that before asserting that a thicker, (and more dangerous) fuse wire is used, that a measurement of the actual resistance of the 3/4" length of wire in the fuse be done - if you can.

When taking into account all the other resistance in the ccts, surely this small one is swamped by them.

[Barry]

As part of the specification for BS1362 cartridge fuses, the fuse itself (regardless of rating) must dissipate no more than 1 watt. Thus for a 13A rated fuse the resistance of the fuse will be no more than 6 milli-Ohm. For a 3A rated fuse this becomes 0.11 Ohm, but in practice the resistance will be lower: the diameter of the copper wire used will be 0.15mm and it is 25.4mm long, so a resistance of 0.025 Ohm.

[Pharos]

When replacing a fuse I do wipe both ends on my nose, the acidic grease tends to improve contact. (An old BBC trick with faders).

[Lawrence001]

When replacing a fuse I do wipe both ends on my nose, the acidic grease tends to improve contact. (An old BBC trick with faders).Is that the inside or the outside of the nose??

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

[anthonyTD]

I have said this many times before, if you mess with the original parameters of a fuse so that it actualy has a measured diffrence as to the current over time it can carry, then its safety aspect as to the rating it originaly adered to is compromised, IMHO and from experience of repairing equipment where these things have been fitted, I strongly advise that you think very carefuly about the possible ramifications of doing so before you decide to fit them!

[Pharos]

Is that the inside or the outside of the nose??

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I stated that I wiped both ends "ON" my nose.