stereo imaging

[colinB]

Hi all, im sitting here listening to the Hypnotic Brass ensemble and feeling smug with my self that after 10 years of Hi Fi obsession ive got a pretty enjoyable system. And to think 10 minutes from where i live now is the very place where i bought my first seperates system, good old Richer sounds. I seem to remember it was pretty dreadful actually but any how.
Despite enjoying some great sounds tonight im also aware that something is not right with the imaging. Things appear to be slightly left of center. Could this be my left speaker being near a corner while the right one is well clear?
Its a good 2.5 feet from the wall but its toed in a fair bit. Ive got two racks in between the speakers which are tight together and back into a slight recess which is my bay window so experimenting is difficult to say the least.
I could move a rack but its got my tv on it so it would have to go back.
Could the corner be the problem? Or should i get my ears tested

[Puffin]

Ears! get yer 'ead tested mate:lol::lol:

Seriously, have you checked that all L & R leads are properly orientated. I had this problem once and a set of leads was wrong.

I have one ear which blocks up with wax and I have it cleaned out once a year, could be that.

Or it could be the positioning. You will have to experiment with placing and see if it helps.

[The Vinyl Adventure]

I have just managed to get a sound stage again for the first time in a few years. It's been pickling me a bit trying to get it right. What's bugging me is that I seem to have got a sound stage but as the tweeters are shooting over my head the stage is raised and 2d .... And I can't think that there is any solution bar different speakers.

[colinB]

Funnily enough i had to have my ears " suctioned" about 6 months ago.
I kid you not i had two marble sized lumps taken out. I dont know how he got them out of my lugs they were so big. Frightened the shit out of me.

Im going to have to do some arranging tomorrow i think. I might even get the duster out.

[Themis]

Well, I'm quite sensitive to imaging. And what I can say is that the "center" it's not the same in all recordings.
I now have an amp with one volume pot per channel, so the problem is solved for me. ;)

Of course, speaker positioning could influence image, no doubt. If the image shifted left since a new speaker/room position then it could be simply the reason.

(I will not comment about the "ears" :lolsign:)

[DrMartin]

After years and years of vague imaging I have now got something far more 3-dimensional. I have played around with positioning - as in the distance from the rear wall, the distance between the speakers and the amount of toe-in - and I have played around with different isolation / floor coupling methods etc, etc, - but the biggest improvement by far came from clearing the space between the speakers (a tip I recently got from this forum) I too had an off centre central image at one time - but it was much more noticable when listening to FM radio for some reason. I've also got a slight problem with some wall reflections on one side, so it's not perfect, but clearing the space completely between the speakers has improved things no end.

[Spectral Morn]

Hi all, im sitting here listening to the Hypnotic Brass ensemble and feeling smug with my self that after 10 years of Hi Fi obsession ive got a pretty enjoyable system. And to think 10 minutes from where i live now is the very place where i bought my first seperates system, good old Richer sounds. I seem to remember it was pretty dreadful actually but any how.
Despite enjoying some great sounds tonight im also aware that something is not right with the imaging. Things appear to be slightly left of center. Could this be my left speaker being near a corner while the right one is well clear?
Its a good 2.5 feet from the wall but its toed in a fair bit. Ive got two racks in between the speakers which are tight together and back into a slight recess which is my bay window so experimenting is difficult to say the least.
I could move a rack but its got my tv on it so it would have to go back.
Could the corner be the problem? Or should i get my ears tested


Yes its because of the space to the side of the left speaker. I have a similar, though mild issue the same,for exactly the same reason though in my case if I pull the curtains closed in the bay window the problem reduces more. It only seems to be more of an issue with some recordings over others.

Most of my pre-amplifiers I own have balance controls which I can adjust by one position to the right and the issue goes completely. My Anthony Gallo ref3.1 speakers also reduce the problem as the CDT tweeters radiate 180 degrees rather than beam straight ahead. When I used more conventional speakers this slight imbalance was worse. Tonal balance etc is never affected just the image sitting slightly to the left side.

The other things mentioned above can also be a factor too but in your case I believe it is the position of the speakers.


Regards D S D L

[Spectral Morn]

I have just managed to get a sound stage again for the first time in a few years. It's been pickling me a bit trying to get it right. What's bugging me is that I seem to have got a sound stage but as the tweeters are shooting over my head the stage is raised and 2d .... And I can't think that there is any solution bar different speakers.

Hamish

Try lowering the front spikes under the speakers slightly so that the tweeters point more at your ears or sit on a cushion that raises you up a bit to see if that cures the problem.

In regard to setting up speakers to achieve best imaging they really need to be set up to be completely the same. Same height from floor to top of speaker, both totally level, both with the same distance (or as close as you can get allowing for wonky walls) from back of speaker to rear wall, side of speaker to side wall and front of speaker to front wall. If they are toed in then the angle of toe in of both speakers must be the same as well. There is nothing for it but to use a tape measure, pen, paper and spirit level to get this right or if you have or can borrow one, a laser measurer.

Years ago I learnt that it pays to be totally anal about speaker set up as having any parameter different to the other speaker leads to imaging issues (and that's not taking the room into account. Solid walls to one side and boast to the other can cause problems as can having anything between the speakers etc). Attention to detail matters a lot in set up and everything is important but especially with speakers.

Oh yes forgot to mention that what the speakers are sitting on makes a difference too but more in regard to bass mid range quality. Solid floor good, suspended floor potentially bad, carpeted floor good (over concrete floor), wood laminate floor bad (though a large heavy rug over it will help). With bad suspended floors heavy duty granite or slate platforms will help a lot. Thin ones are not much good imho... However you will need to take into account height of the tweeters and a taller seat may be needed to raise you to the right height.

Regards D S D L

[Themis]

Solid walls to one side and boast to the other can cause problems as can having anything between the speakers etc). Attention to detail matters a lot in set up and everything is important but especially with speakers.

I had the same experience. ;)
In my room (where there's wall only on one side) the other speaker had to be slightly in retreat (about 4cm) to compensate for a perfect imaging. ;)

[DSJR]

I'm very fortunate in that the Spendors always excelled at imaging and still do. Even with the dated sources I have, given a decent recording, the soundstage can be awesome.

I also have a positioning issue, albeit a mild one. I cannot be anal about it as I have a family using the room as well, but the left hand wall is slightly nearer the left speaker than the right and I also have a telly in between, which is a definite no-no in real terms.

I'm still enjoying my music more than I have since I sold my big ATC's.. :gig:

[colinB]

Thanks to all for your interesting responses. Im going to play about a bit.
I was going to put my stands on the side wall but i have a big ikea expedia unit there know. Thanks to the AOS member ( sorry i cant remember who) recomendation for record storage, it looks great.
I have a demo booked at sevenoaks on saturday for a little B&W 8" subwoofer.
A risky move perhaps but they have a pair of AVI neutrons and so im interested in how they sound together.
Whats the story with the XTZ room analyzer everyone talks about. I get the feeling it can tell you your rooms crap but doesnt give you any practical help to counter act the problem.

[ahgotriddm]

Hi all, im sitting here listening to the Hypnotic Brass ensemble and feeling smug with my self that after 10 years of Hi Fi obsession ive got a pretty enjoyable system. And to think 10 minutes from where i live now is the very place where i bought my first seperates system, good old Richer sounds. I seem to remember it was pretty dreadful actually but any how.
Despite enjoying some great sounds tonight im also aware that something is not right with the imaging. Things appear to be slightly left of center. Could this be my left speaker being near a corner while the right one is well clear?
Its a good 2.5 feet from the wall but its toed in a fair bit. Ive got two racks in between the speakers which are tight together and back into a slight recess which is my bay window so experimenting is difficult to say the least.
I could move a rack but its got my tv on it so it would have to go back.
Could the corner be the problem? Or should i get my ears tested
This could be biological, but if you are hearing everything with ears of unequal response, the brain is likely to compensate, I'd have thought. Though maybe it can't do that with stereo. If you have any decent cans available, you could feed in a mono signal, and the sound should be heard in the centre of the head. If it is, the problem lies with the speakers, either electrically or acoustically. Acoustic effects can be difficult to track down, as you appreciate already. But one can chase after those things when the fault lies in one of the speakers themselves- I know, I've done it. Try tightening the bolts on the bass and midrange units, which can work loose. (It's worth doing that, anyway.) Then try swapping the speakers around. These biases have been known to be due to a broken super-tweeter- though they aren't very fashionable these days. There may even be a crossover fault.

If the sound is still biased leftwards on cans, the fault is in the signal (or your ears). It could be that a preamp is producing less on the right channel- so you could try swapping input leads to the power amp, and the bias should change to the right, of course. It could be that a cartridge or other source is doing the same, so swapping the leads from those could track down the problem.

[Spectral Morn]

This could be biological, but if you are hearing everything with ears of unequal response, the brain is likely to compensate, I'd have thought. Though maybe it can't do that with stereo. If you have any decent cans available, you could feed in a mono signal, and the sound should be heard in the centre of the head. If it is, the problem lies with the speakers, either electrically or acoustically. Acoustic effects can be difficult to track down, as you appreciate already. But one can chase after those things when the fault lies in one of the speakers themselves- I know, I've done it. Try tightening the bolts on the bass and midrange units, which can work loose. (It's worth doing that, anyway.) Then try swapping the speakers around. These biases have been known to be due to a broken super-tweeter- though they aren't very fashionable these days. There may even be a crossover fault.

If the sound is still biased leftwards on cans, the fault is in the signal (or your ears). It could be that a preamp is producing less on the right channel- so you could try swapping input leads to the power amp, and the bias should change to the right, of course. It could be that a cartridge or other source is doing the same, so swapping the leads from those could track down the problem.

Welcome to AOS


Hi Can you pop into the welcome section of the forum and say hello.

Tell us a bit about yourself, the system you use and the music you like and putting some photos of your system in the gallery section would also be nice.

AOS also likes its members to give a basic location and a first name....thank you in advance.

Regards D S D L