Hana SL or ML Cartridge

[Souldust]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and I'd like to share a question with you.
I have a technics 1210 with an original tonearm, rewired (rca's and tonearm cable) and a gold note ph-10 pre-amp. Till now I have MM cartridges and want to buy a better MC cartridge. After some readings and get a good price for hana's I'm think about to buy a hana's cartridge. So, the question is Hana SL or Hana ML, do you think I'll get everything hana ML can do with a original technics tonearm?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Bigman80]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and I'd like to share a question with you.
I have a technics 1210 with an original tonearm, rewired (rca's and tonearm cable) and a gold note ph-10 pre-amp. Till now I have MM cartridges and want to buy a better MC cartridge. After some readings and get a good price for hana's I'm think about to buy a hana's cartridge. So, the question is Hana SL or Hana ML, do you think I'll get everything hana ML can do with a original technics tonearm?

Thanks in advance for your help.The original arm isn't what I'd class as a bad arm but as always, you could do better.

I'd rather have a better arm before I upgraded the cartridge as you don't and won't know for sure how good something is until you can get the best from it.

Something like a Jelco will be a decent upgrade and is fairly simple to fit to your 1210.

[Souldust]

The original arm isn't what I'd class as a bad arm but as always, you could do better.

I'd rather have a better arm before I upgraded the cartridge as you don't and won't know for sure how good something is until you can get the best from it.

Something like a Jelco will be a decent upgrade and is fairly simple to fit to your 1210.

Thanks for your reply.
Do you mean the Jelco 750? I've been watching the SME 3009 II improved but I don't know it's a very good improvement and it's a light mass tonearm. In the other hand the Sorane tonearm looks like a good one but it's quite a bit too much and I should wait a bit.

Thanks

[Bigman80]

Thanks for your reply.
Do you mean the Jelco 750? I've been watching the SME 3009 II improved but I don't know it's a very good improvement and it's a light mass tonearm. In the other hand the Sorane tonearm looks like a good one but it's quite a bit too much and I should wait a bit.

ThanksI'd avoid the SME, I had two and neither of them made any waves here. The Jelco is a time tested performer and contains no hidden nasties. A very capable arm for an OK price.

If you want better, look at Audiomods arms although you may have issues fitting one to your technics. You'd have to investigate that.

[struth]

would't class the 3009 mk2 imp a bad arm either. quite the opposite although it needs a heavier counterweight and if tracking above 2gm then a extra rider too.

[graham67]

Jeff at audiomods can supply a bespoke Soundsupports armplate for the 1200 for the.audiomods arm I think it is shown on his site but I cant post links atm.

[Bigman80]

would't class the 3009 mk2 imp a bad arm either. quite the opposite although it needs a heavier counterweight and if tracking above 2gm then a extra rider too.

Can only speak from experience mate, as ou know. It can't have as many fans as it does and be total cack but it didn't work for me.

Just seen there may be a fitment for the Audiomods. Thats where i'd go for your TT

[Mikeandvan]

I wouldn't rush off and buy a another tonearm, just try what cart you want in your existing arm and see how it sounds. For me the most obvious difference you can make to a turntable is the cart, and I mean ALOT of difference, everything else is refining things. I have a Nagoaka moving magnet cart and its fantastic value at only £250 direct from Japan, the mp 200.

[Cycleallday]

Alberto,

Go with your gut feel on the upgrade path else you will never be happy.

The standard arm is not bad and if you want a mc then buy that first - after a listen you may well be happy and not want to spend more.

Buy another arm plus the fitting plate and leads and you will be paying much more than for the suggested mc’s. - and you will still want to try the mc after all !

Don’t forget its the law of diminishing returns and its easy to spend a lot upgrading a deck when you could pay less for just buying a better one.

Treat yourself to the low output Hanna and a reasonable cost phono and enjoy the sound before trying anything else.

If you don’t have a phono then Rega make a decent cost mc phono which can be bought at a good price and easily moved on if you wish to upgrade.

Mel

[AJSki2fly]

I agree with a couple of others ring Guy at Pure Sound he has a Hana Sl loaner so he may let you try at home. His prices are quite good as well. I borrowed it and was very impressed.

http://puresound.info

[crimsondonkey]

You can’t lose by buying a Hana SL from Guy. It’s a real cracker and you’ll enjoy many hours of listening with it. When the next upgrade bug hits you could look at another arm and then after that consider the ML.

I’ve tried both the SL and ML and yep the ML is better whereas the SL is the absolute sweet spot of sound per pound.

[ReggieB]

I only have limited experience with other cartridges, but I am very pleased with my Hana SL.

[Souldust]

You can’t lose by buying a Hana SL from Guy. It’s a real cracker and you’ll enjoy many hours of listening with it. When the next upgrade bug hits you could look at another arm and then after that consider the ML.

I’ve tried both the SL and ML and yep the ML is better whereas the SL is the absolute sweet spot of sound per pound.


I'm considering change the tonerarm for a Jelco, I think it's a good price and isn't so expensive and could be a good upgraded. So, do you think that ml it's a good option with that tonearm??

Thanks

[Lurch]

The Jelco and SL work well together, however with the SL you need to watch the loading. If you can only feed it 100ohm then it's just another good cartridge. However if you can feed it the recommended 400+ ohms then it's becomes an absolutely stonking cart that is hard to better for the money.
The ML is also an absolutely brilliant cart but the Jelco won't really do it justice, it deserves a better arm even though its only a £1k cart.
The SL correctly setup and loaded will hold its own against far more expensive carts and as mentioned earlier is the sweets pot for SQ vs ££s.

[AJSki2fly]

The Jelco and SL work well together, however with the SL you need to watch the loading. If you can only feed it 100ohm then it's just another good cartridge. However if you can feed it the recommended 400+ ohms then it's becomes an absolutely stonking cart that is hard to better for the money.
The ML is also an absolutely brilliant cart but the Jelco won't really do it justice, it deserves a better arm even though its only a £1k cart.
The SL correctly setup and loaded will hold its own against far more expensive carts and as mentioned earlier is the sweets pot for SQ vs ££s.

I think it really depends upon which Jelco you go for, some of them are very good, and do not be mis-lead by the low price it does not mean they are not any good. I believe Jelco actually do make arms for several well know arm makes. I think you would find the 850 range pretty good.

Another good arm that has been recommended to me is the Acoustic Research TA1000 http://acoustic-signature.com/en/tone-arms/ta-1000/ once again not overtly expensive but highly regarded. I was told you could easily spend 2-3 times and not better it.

[moodybuilder]

I agree the hana is a lot of cart for the cost I still use one, change the cart get a new phone sit back and enjoy

[The Chronicals]

I have a Koetsu Red T...five times the price of the Hana, had a Hana SL previous. The Koetsu is obviously way better, but I definitely wouldn't be sad if I broke it and had to go back to a Hana SL, I genuienly think its the best value MC cart out there, but not in a Tesco Value way...in a VW Golf GTI kind of way. Does everything, and does everything well.

[Souldust]

I was thinking in the 750. I can get it for a very very good price.

Regarding the phono stage i can set up 9 different load options (10Ω, 22Ω, 47Ω, 100Ω, 220Ω, 470Ω, 1000Ω, 22KΩ, 47KΩ). I guess It can be suit for both SL and Ml.

With that set up do you still get the SL???

[Lurch]

I would say yes, and run the SL at 470 1st, then see how it sounds as you go higher.

[AJSki2fly]

I was thinking in the 750. I can get it for a very very good price.

Regarding the phono stage i can set up 9 different load options (10Ω, 22Ω, 47Ω, 100Ω, 220Ω, 470Ω, 1000Ω, 22KΩ, 47KΩ). I guess It can be suit for both SL and Ml.

With that set up do you still get the SL???

My understanding is that whilst the 750 is a good arm the 850 is quite an improvement on it and it would probably be worth the cost xtra to get more from the Hana. Hav3 a chat with Hugo at Ammonite Audio he knows about both and is very helpful. https://ammonite-audio.co.uk/

[Floyddroid]

The Jelco 750 isn't the panacea people think it is. It is all dependent on good pairing. I had one on a Garrard 401 and found it dull as dish water using a myriad of cartridges. if you want to start using MC carts try a more appropriate vessel that the 1210.

[Souldust]

There's a huge discussion about 1200... Anyway I don't want to change the TT for several reasons. In that case, according to your opinion I'd forget a MC cartridge? I've seen many technics with original tonearm or replaced with MC cartridges.

[rubber duck]

It would help if you told us what MM you currently use and what you're hoping to improve. I use MM, MI and MC carts, including a Hana, on my three SL1200 decks. My Shure M97xE and Hana SH sound very good on the original (rewired) Technics arm. I also have a Stanton 688EEE (MI) along with an AT33PTG (Paratrace) on a Moerch DP6, each mounted on the correct mass arm wand.

I can tell you the Hana SH on the rewired Technics arm is not embarrassed by the AT33PTG/Moerch DP6. So, to answer your original question, the Technics arm is very good, better than most people think, and certainly good enough for the Hana SH and I presume SL. I chose the SH because I wanted to run this directly into my Croft 25 valve preamp. Hope this helps.

[Souldust]

Thanks for your reply, Jeff.
I had two MM cartridges (Nagaoka Mp-110 and Grado Dj200i) and finally I bought a Hana ML. It sounds very good with the original tonearm rewired and with the additional counterweight. So much detailed sound, separated, ... So nice, but I don't know if I could get more from that cartridge, I guess so. It has less than 50 hours of use.
I think I'm gonna try a Jelco 750 or 850, it's an affordable tonearm, an upgrade (I guess) and very good reviews/opinions.

[Spectral Morn]

The Jelco 750 isn't the panacea people think it is. It is all dependent on good pairing. I had one on a Garrard 401 and found it dull as dish water using a myriad of cartridges. if you want to start using MC carts try a more appropriate vessel that the 1210.

The 1200 is a perfectly good vessel, if its issues have been addressed, platter, psu, feet etc. I run one with a mk7 Triplanar arm and VDH Frog Gold.

The Jelco750 does suit the 1200 well, particularly with a Denon 103, and heavier head-shell.

I was not that impressed with Hana, another flavour of the month product I feel.

[petrat]

Thanks for your reply, Jeff.
I had two MM cartridges (Nagaoka Mp-110 and Grado Dj200i) and finally I bought a Hana ML. It sounds very good with the original tonearm rewired and with the additional counterweight. So much detailed sound, separated, ... So nice, but I don't know if I could get more from that cartridge, I guess so. It has less than 50 hours of use.
I think I'm gonna try a Jelco 750 or 850, it's an affordable tonearm, an upgrade (I guess) and very good reviews/opinions.

Having used several Jelco arms over the years (250, 750D, 750E and, now, 850L), I strongly recommend you go for the 850 if you can stretch financially. It's a clear upgrade from the earlier ones, and is much better imo. Ammonite Audio are doing a deal atm. They will also advise whether a 9 inch or 10 inch one is best for your deck.

[Souldust]

Having used several Jelco arms over the years (250, 750D, 750E and, now, 850L), I strongly recommend you go for the 850 if you can stretch financially. It's a clear upgrade from the earlier ones, and is much better imo. Ammonite Audio are doing a deal atm. They will also advise whether a 9 inch or 10 inch one is best for your deck.

Thanks for your advise. I haven't see online the mass of 850, so do you think will match good with a Hana Ml (10 of compliance, 9,5gr)?
Anyone here has a Sorane or any opinion?

Cheers

[Ammonite Audio]

Thanks for your advise. I haven't see online the mass of 850, so do you think will match good with a Hana Ml (10 of compliance, 9,5gr)?
Anyone here has a Sorane or any opinion?

Cheers

The Jelco TK-850S has a quoted effective mass of 13.4g, with the supplied HS-25 headshell. That compliance figure of 10cu for the Hana must be the typical Japanese spec measured at 100Hz, eg an indication of trackability rather than actual suspension compliance. Assuming that the actual dynamic compliance at 10Hz is around 15cu, as is most likely, then you are looking at a fundamental arm/cartridge resonance of 9Hz, which is good.

[Souldust]

The Jelco TK-850S has a quoted effective mass of 13.4g, with the supplied HS-25 headshell. That compliance figure of 10cu for the Hana must be the typical Japanese spec measured at 100Hz, eg an indication of trackability rather than actual suspension compliance. Assuming that the actual dynamic compliance at 10Hz is around 15cu, as is most likely, then you are looking at a fundamental arm/cartridge resonance of 9Hz, which is good.

In that case, the actual dynamic compliance at 10hz is 17, if I'm not wrong the resonance is:

1000/(6,28*SQRT( (13,4+9,5)*17)=8,07Hz

Is too low?

[Ammonite Audio]

Much easier just to use the resonance evaluator over at Vinyl Engine (https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php) than resort to mathematics, but you have to be registered there to use it. Are you sure the actual dynamic compliance at 10Hz is 17? It's actually very difficult to apply a broad assumption to 100Hz specifications, to get 10Hz dynamic compliance. In any case, when Paul Rigby reviewed the Hana ML (https://theaudiophileman.com/hana-ml-low-output-cartridge-review/), he used an Origin Live Enterprise 12" to good effect, and that arm's effective mass is somewhere between 16g and 17g, so I would not worry about arm mass being theoretically a touch too high. And 8Hz is not too low.

[Souldust]

Much easier just to use the resonance evaluator over at Vinyl Engine (https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php) than resort to mathematics, but you have to be registered there to use it. Are you sure the actual dynamic compliance at 10Hz is 17? It's actually very difficult to apply a broad assumption to 100Hz specifications, to get 10Hz dynamic compliance. In any case, when Paul Rigby reviewed the Hana ML (https://theaudiophileman.com/hana-ml-low-output-cartridge-review/), he used an Origin Live Enterprise 12" to good effect, and that arm's effective mass is somewhere between 16g and 17g, so I would not worry about arm mass being theoretically a touch too high. And 8Hz is not too low.


I found the dynamic compliance at 10hz in this page http://www.music2.nl/hana/ . So, mathematics apart do you think that Jelco 850 it's a good upgrade from original technics 1200 mkII arm? Here in Spain there aren't so many people with that Jelco. Currently the hana is in the original technics (Carda's rewired) arm and sounds pretty good but I assume could get more from that cartridge. I don't know because don't have experience with Mc cartridges.

Thanks for your help

[montesquieu]

The Jelco TK850 is a superb arm a giant killer actually and substantially better than the old SA750 (radically so). Should be a good match with the Hana. I would recommend though that the next upgrade after the arm is your phono stage.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Perhaps you should define what you want out of your turntable, sound wise. You'll then have a clear idea of your upgrade path.

[Souldust]

The Jelco TK850 is a superb arm a giant killer actually and substantially better than the old SA750 (radically so). Should be a good match with the Hana. I would recommend though that the next upgrade after the arm is your phono stage.

Thanks for your advise.
The phono stage I think is enough for the moment. I bought two months ago a Gold note PH-10 and I’m pretty happy with it.

[Idlewithnodrive]

You can’t lose by buying a Hana SL from Guy. It’s a real cracker and you’ll enjoy many hours of listening with it. When the next upgrade bug hits you could look at another arm and then after that consider the ML.

I’ve tried both the SL and ML and yep the ML is better whereas the SL is the absolute sweet spot of sound per pound.

Exactly this.

[chris@panteg]

I've heard really good things about the Hana SL and also the goldnote phono stage too, great flexibility.