View Full Version : Your Opinions Of The Mag Lev Turntable?
Minstrel SE
27-05-2019, 22:26
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ycroUPW-FuU/maxresdefault.jpg
Have you seen this before? I thought it would already have a mention on AOS.
Crowd funded to double the asking price its certainly eye catching. It should on paper reduce rumble to zero. I dont know how practical it is to use or whether its worth the cost. Rumble isnt obtrusive on decks costing less than this. Costs about £2800
Its cheaper than the Mcintosh Mt5 though.
Just wondered what AOS members thought about it
I’ve actually seen one in the flesh and had a little play with it. The platter does float but it’s far from rigid, or even particularly stable. Good fun though.
chris@panteg
27-05-2019, 23:32
I've seen one and had a play with it, what struck me was that I touched the platter whilst it was spinning, and it kept wobbling pretty much for about half an hour or more, in fact it didn't settle down and stabilise at all.
Minstrel SE
28-05-2019, 03:12
Yes it doesnt look particularly stable on the review videos.
It doesnt inspire me with much confidence that its not just an art gimmick living on a wing and a prayer.
I havent seen one close up but the above comments dont make me feel any better about it
Primalsea
28-05-2019, 06:49
I think it’s worth keeping an eye on future developments but for now I am not too convinced from what I have read about them. However, I’ve never listened to one and that could change my view.
walpurgis
28-05-2019, 06:54
Could it be a not very good solution looking for what is not really a problem? (expensively)
jandl100
28-05-2019, 07:00
Gale GT2101 had maglev back in the 1970s.
'J. Paul Getty owned three and Elton John was reputed to own a pair. Other owners include Frank Sinatra, Ann Margaret and Freddie Mercury! '
https://www.analogplanet.com/content/legendary-gale-gt-2101-appears-my-door
http://www.vintagehificlub.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Gale-gt-2101-9-550x499.jpg
phonomac
28-05-2019, 07:55
Could it be a not very good solution looking for what is not really a problem? (expensively)
Agreed. In fact it's trying to solve what is not really a problem these days by compromising almost every other aspect which is important for vinyl replay. Expensively.
Beobloke
28-05-2019, 07:59
I’ve seen it in the flesh and read enough comments to realise that it’s probably not great and seems to be an answer to a question nobody asked.
I still want one, though...
Jerry, I don’t think the Gale was magnetically driven or supported. The suspension was via springs and the motor was a direct drive design.
jandl100
28-05-2019, 08:26
Jerry, I don’t think the Gale was magnetically driven or supported. The suspension was via springs and the motor was a direct drive design.
Ah, OK - it's said to have a 'floating magnetic bearing'. Maybe I misunderstood what that was.
Had mag lev feet once on a tt. Worked well
phonomac
28-05-2019, 09:33
Had mag lev feet once on a tt. Worked well
Mag lev feet are fine, maybe even a mag lev bearing of the type which works only to reduce the load without compromising path from platter to stylus (although expensive/unnecessary feature today). Mag lev platter with no connection to anything else? :mental:
Ah, OK - it's said to have a 'floating magnetic bearing'. Maybe I misunderstood what that was.
Hmm... maybe you are right though - I’ll look into it.
Minstrel SE
28-05-2019, 19:36
Could it be a not very good solution looking for what is not really a problem? (expensively)
Yes this is my gut feeling and I think the general consensus so far backs that up.
I dont want one
Looks as cool as fcuk..
Closest cool looks wise I’ve seen to a Gyrodec but not quite.
Sound wise, wouldn’t bet the farm on it
Hipster marketing with a bit of money behind it
Ah, OK - it's said to have a 'floating magnetic bearing'. Maybe I misunderstood what that was.
My apologies Jerry; I’ve read into the Gale a bit more and it is suggested that the main bearing was supported magnetically. More precisely, the bearing of the direct drive motor, to which the platter was attached, was supported magnetically. In many ways the Gale was way ahead of its time. Unfortunately, I don’t think all the technology was quite as developed as the concepts behind it.
Minstrel SE
29-05-2019, 08:05
Doesnt a good magnetic bearing just lift the spindle above the main load point like the Mcintosh? You still oil the spindle but it lifts it above the lower contact point.
I thought a well designed bearing is fairly free from rumble so you would be spending three grand for the artistic looks
I dont know much about magnetic bearings.They seem to make sense but the cost seems too high for the average user
I was briefly reading that they are on offer on really high end systems. I think the Mag Lev introduces more issues then it solves. How would a giant magnetic field work with a MC cartridge?
How is it ever going to stop wobbling if touched and what happens if there is a sudden power cut? The rest sensors would have to rise immediately with back up power
walpurgis
29-05-2019, 08:22
There are quiet running turntables made fifty years ago that still have perfectly good bearings, so I don't see maglev being a significant benefit.
phonomac
29-05-2019, 08:31
Doesnt a good magnetic bearing just lift the spindle above the main load point like the Mcintosh? You still oil the spindle but it lifts it above the lower contact point. ...
A magnetically assisted bearing should reduce the load on the thrust pad, but not lift it out of contact. If you lose contact with the thrust pad then the platter is floating (and unconstrained) in the vertical axis. With modern materials for thrust pads and spindles magnetic assistance is unnecessary for engineering purposes, although probably essential for smoke and mirrors marketeers :eyebrows:
I've been looking at the Tiger-Paw Tranquility (https://www.tiger-paw.com/tranquility) as an upgrade option for my LP12. It uses magnetic force to reduce the load on the bearing without totally removing it. The design seems to me a good compromise of still keeping the mechanical bearing, but minimising the force going through it. I've read a couple of online opinions on the Tranquility and it seems to be positive. Anyone any thoughts on the Tranquility, or experience of using it?
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/fdd2e8_645c9ad9c96b43c8be7e881ccca3e5a8~mv2_d_5472 _3648_s_4_2.jpg/v1/crop/x_0,y_193,w_5472,h_3230/fill/w_360,h_213,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/fdd2e8_645c9ad9c96b43c8be7e881ccca3e5a8~mv2_d_5472 _3648_s_4_2.webp
I did the primary design work and concept modelling for the Tranquility. Roger did the production engineering (a lot more work than often appreciated) and marketing. It’s based on work on magnetically supported bearings I started many years ago and is a variety of the design I personally use in my own deck.
There are quiet running turntables made fifty years ago that still have perfectly good bearings, so I don't see maglev being a significant benefit.
It depends on what you consider ‘quiet’ to be. Quiet in the sense that you can’t directly hear any bearing rumble but that doesn’t mean that rumble doesn’t exist, or that the low level noise isn’t interfering with the music. However, if you are thinking of idler drive decks then the motor is likely to be producing much more noise than the main bearing and swamping any bearing rumble that may exist.
Pickering had a magnetic bearing deck as far back as the late 50s.
In the 70s there was the Gyropoise which was sold under both Pickering and Stanton brands. It's a really neat little deck.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/40a145cd529b0b1f79f88358f38d426e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/8f5e675d97dd948a7142031741ec5172.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/62cb5505a7bed8409596f659f059e3de.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/e4c1a18954b0f9c186dd299d00ca9b1d.jpg
Indeed. The primary difference in modern implementations is the use of neodymium magnets which allow much more control over the magnetic field.
I did the primary design work and concept modelling for the Tranquility. Roger did the production engineering (a lot more work than often appreciated) and marketing. It’s based on work on magnetically supported bearings I started many years ago and is a variety of the design I personally use in my own deck.
That'll be a positive vote then :eyebrows:
Good stuff. Nice to know Mark!
Pickering had a magnetic bearing deck as far back as the late 50s.
In the 70s there was the Gyropoise which was sold under both Pickering and Stanton brands. It's a really neat little deck.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/40a145cd529b0b1f79f88358f38d426e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/8f5e675d97dd948a7142031741ec5172.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/62cb5505a7bed8409596f659f059e3de.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190529/e4c1a18954b0f9c186dd299d00ca9b1d.jpgI don't understand why manufacturers don't employ a magnetic bearing. Seems an easy way of removing a noise source.
That'll be a positive vote then :eyebrows:
Good stuff. Nice to know Mark!
Well, a positive vote from me at least ;).
Joking aside, before Linn deleted the entire forum there was a massive thread on there about the Tranquility and people’s experience. Apart from a couple of people with industry axes to grind the feedback was pretty much universally positive. Quite strikingly so given it is an aftermarket mod and few audio enthusiasts seem to agree on anything.
moggi1964
15-06-2019, 10:40
Magnets play a part in my turntable, the TEAC TN-400. It uses a Magnet Float system to support (but not suspend) a 2.4kg platter. Stats are below:
Drive system : Direct drive system
Motor: 20 pole 60 slot super low speed DC servo motor
Platter: 30 cm Diameter Aluminum Die Cast Weight 2.4 kg Inertial mass 325 kg · cm 2
Rotation speed: 33 1/3 and 45 rpm
Speed switching method: Electronic switching method by electrotouch
Speed adjustment range: ± 4%
Starting characteristic: Within 3/4 rotation (33 1/3 rms)
Wow flutter: 0.03% (wrms)
S / N ratio: 60 dB
Power supply: 100 V AC, 50/60 Hz, 15 W
Bottom dimension of board: 73 mm
External dimensions: 324 W × 121 H × 370 D mm
Weight (without plinth or arm): 8.5 kg
You needed to provide your own plinth and arm on the early models as they were sold as a competitor to the Technics and for use in broadcast situations.
I have a Plyboo plinth made by a friend of mine and I have a spare TN-400 just in case something goes wrong with this one. The one in the picture was bought by me 'new in box' so only has a few hundred hours on it since it was made in the early 70's.
https://i.ibb.co/2cTpQNM/TN400-crop.jpg
Primalsea
15-06-2019, 12:10
There is/was a company, Clearaudio maybe, who used a sub-platter with magnets that floated the main platter and also spun to create the drive to main platter as well. Still had a vertical bearing. It was about 10 years ago, so I might have remembered it wrong.
Phil Lawton
21-06-2019, 11:08
There is/was a company, Clearaudio maybe, who used a sub-platter with magnets that floated the main platter and also spun to create the drive to main platter as well. Still had a vertical bearing. It was about 10 years ago, so I might have remembered it wrong.
Almost right - the platter is suspended by opposing magnets, revolves around a ceramic spindle and is belt-driven by an off-board motor.
Completely silent in operation.
Speaking of alternative turntables has anyone heard the ELP laser pickup TT?
http://www.elpj.com/
Apparently $15k but only direct order so pricing may be different.
I was briefly reading that they are on offer on really high end systems. I think the Mag Lev introduces more issues then it solves. How would a giant magnetic field work with a MC cartridge?
That’s exactly what I was thinking, what effect does this huge magnetic field have on the cartridge?
Russell
think they follow the inverse square law, ie, double the distance, the quarter the effect. i had a big magnet on end of my tonearm as a weight and over the length of arm there was no effect on a mc cart
If done correctly, there is no ‘huge magnetic field’. What there is is a small localised magnetic field that is primarily vertical in nature. I’ve been using a version of a magnetic bearing for many years and am certain there is no issue with using a MC. In addition, the majority of Tranquility owners also use MC cartridges and not one issue has ever arisen.
If done correctly, there is no ‘huge magnetic field’. What there is is a small localised magnetic field that is primarily vertical in nature. I’ve been using a version of a magnetic bearing for many years and am certain there is no issue with using a MC. In addition, the majority of Tranquility owners also use MC cartridges and not one issue has ever arisen.
I know magnetic bearings are nothing new, and as you describe, a small localized magnetic repulsion right at the spindle is plenty safe. But this turntable here has the entire platter flying an inch off the plinth! Quite something else. But, apparently it works or they couldn’t sell it?
Been using the Tranquility on my lp12 for about 6months now and it is a fantastic upgrade. Like you say, no interference with MC cart, very localised, and really does get you deeper into the mix with the music. Highly recommended and come up regularly on the forums so can be had cheap enough to try it out and move it on if its not to your liking... you wont be moving it on though, I promise you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stratmangler
23-06-2019, 12:16
Speaking of alternative turntables has anyone heard the ELP laser pickup TT?
http://www.elpj.com/
Apparently $15k but only direct order so pricing may be different.
Yes, a long time ago at a Hi-Fi show somewhere.
There's no stylus tracing noise, but it does read crud in the groove, so your records need to be spotless.
They used to supply a RCM as part of the deal.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ycroUPW-FuU/maxresdefault.jpg
Have you seen this before? I thought it would already have a mention on AOS.
Crowd funded to double the asking price its certainly eye catching. It should on paper reduce rumble to zero. I dont know how practical it is to use or whether its worth the cost. Rumble isnt obtrusive on decks costing less than this. Costs about £2800
Its cheaper than the Mcintosh Mt5 though.
Just wondered what AOS members thought about it
It's magic, I tell ya. Witchcraft. Hocus-Pockey..., or some such thing :steam:
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