That 'New' Royd Audio - What Happened?

[southall-1998_mk2]

Bare in mind. I'm not talking about the 'Joe Akroyd' era of Royds.

The name was resurrected in 2014, by a chap named Adam? He released a modern day Minstrel, which to be honest, didn't really pay much homage to the original.

Have they gone bust or something?

S.

[Ninanina]

I've no idea Shane

I did own the original Minstrel and it was a lovely little speaker...

[YNWaN]

I think they have gone out of business. I heard their ‘reborn’ Minstrel at a show once and it was almost laughably poor with major issues. I wrote something similar in the report of the show and was subsequently contacted by a chap who had been involved in the design. He confirmed that some very ‘peculiar’ design choices had been made and agreed that the final product sounded poor.

[Minstrel SE]

I remember being all for it in spirit but now think that the Royd audio name should not have been used.

It should have been a different name and they could have noted the influences in the marketing literature. Its a bold thing to do in the current economic climate. I thought it was a touch risky

I never did hear them. I would have liked to. As another contributor said at the time....they were never Royds and would have had to be pretty special in a competitive market

[southall-1998_mk2]

I remember being all for it in spirit but now think that the Royd audio name should not have been used.

It should have been a different name and they could have noted the influences in the marketing literature. Its a bold thing to do in the current economic climate. I thought it was a touch risky

I never did hear them. I would have liked to. As another contributor said at the time....they were never Royds and would have had to be pretty special in a competitive market

Agreed.

S.

[Minstrel SE]

I read that it was an existing design and the Royd name was a way of getting noticed. however I do have mixed feelings about this. I like the idea of trying to build something similar to the minstrel but its not a Royd and the name should have retired with fond memories along with Joe

In a way I cant knock a man for trying to get his speakers noticed but the proof is in the pudding. Some would say its a touch cynical. I think you would have to create some pretty amazing speakers to be confident of using the Royd name

I just dont think there is a big enough market for Royd nostalgia and he was not really going to attract people looking for their next Royds

[fatmarley]

To make a successfull loudspeaker in this overcrowded market, I think you need to be very passionate or even obsessed with loudspeaker design. You also need good ears. Adam had neither of these things, and the only reason he did it was to run a business to support his family (not that I blame him for trying). I helped out with some measurements but I was still learning and I didn't have much say in what went on.
The original prototype was easily the worst speaker i've ever heard in my life. Even Tracy Chapman sounded like she was singing in a small bathroom (Tracy Chapman is one of those recordings that sounds good on anything). The woofer was the SB Acoustics SB15NRXC30-8, but because of breakup it needed to be crossed over to a tweeter quite low (around 2khz IIRC) the Isodynamic planer tweeter tweeter didn't like being crossed any lower than about 4khz, so I suggested using a different woofer with a smooth roll-off (I think he went with Seas in the end). I gave up by this point and we parted ways (not that I was a partner or anything). I heard the final version at a show but it was still bad.

It's quite frustrating to know that I think I could now make the original combination of drivers work by slitting the cone and filling the joints as Joe Akroyd did in the last speakers he made (Scanspeak also sell Slit coned speakers). I've done it with other drivers and it works quite well at smoothing the frequency response and lowering distortion with hard coned paper drivers. I'm also far better at crossover design and modelling port tuning etc - Oh well :(

If there are any headhunters out there looking for obsessed loudspeaker designers, PM me (I'm confident I can prove myself, which is unusual for me because i'm not normally confident in anything I do).

[Martyn Miles]

Bare in mind. I'm not talking about the 'Joe Akroyd' era of Royds.

The name was resurrected in 2014, by a chap named Adam? He released a modern day Minstrel, which to be honest, didn't really pay much homage to the original.

Have they gone bust or something?

S.

Bare in mind ? Are you thinking about a naked woman ?!

[YNWaN]

To make a successfull loudspeaker in this overcrowded market, I think you need to be very passionate or even obsessed with loudspeaker design. You also need good ears. Adam had neither of these things, and the only reason he did it was to run a business to support his family (not that I blame him for trying). I helped out with some measurements but I was still learning and I didn't have much say in what went on.
The original prototype was easily the worst speaker i've ever heard in my life. Even Tracy Chapman sounded like she was singing in a small bathroom (Tracy Chapman is one of those recordings that sounds good on anything). The woofer was the SB Acoustics SB15NRXC30-8, but because of breakup it needed to be crossed over to a tweeter quite low (around 2khz IIRC) the Isodynamic planer tweeter tweeter didn't like being crossed any lower than about 4khz, so I suggested using a different woofer with a smooth roll-off (I think he went with Seas in the end). I gave up by this point and we parted ways (not that I was a partner or anything). I heard the final version at a show but it was still bad.

It's quite frustrating to know that I think I could now make the original combination of drivers work by slitting the cone and filling the joints as Joe Akroyd did in the last speakers he made (Scanspeak also sell Slit coned speakers). I've done it with other drivers and it works quite well at smoothing the frequency response and lowering distortion with hard coned paper drivers. I'm also far better at crossover design and modelling port tuning etc - Oh well :(

If there are any headhunters out there looking for obsessed loudspeaker designers, PM me (I'm confident I can prove myself, which is unusual for me because i'm not normally confident in anything I do).

Wasn't there also a late design decision to 'add more bass' by just sticking a random port in the cabinet? The end result was hideously disjointed and lumpy.

[southall-1998_mk2]

Bare in mind ? Are you thinking about a naked woman ?!


Go away please.

S.

[fatmarley]

Wasn't there also a late design decision to 'add more bass' by just sticking a random port in the cabinet? The end result was hideously disjointed and lumpy.

The port tuning was never modelled in the original prototype, they just chose a port that looked about the right size. I don't know if they modelled the final version but i'd be surprised if they did.

[YNWaN]

Ah yes, that fits with my recollection - it certainly didn’t sound like any modelling (or even listening) had taken place ;).

[Yomanze]

I really don’t understand why they just didn’t clone the original Minstrel enclosure. There is no IP, patents or copyright to worry about as Royd was never sold on.

A Hiquphon tweeter would’ve been a great replacement for the modded Vifa D19, the hard work would be sourcing / modding an appropriate 5.5in driver (important size for Royd speakers) that’ll work properly without a crossover... or just use a 1st order crossover and forget about hand doping drivers on a measurement jig...

[Minstrel SE]

For me its always interesting to see someone launch into a competitive market. This is because I wonder what talent can take on the research departments of the major names. Im interested what model that may take...Perhaps one guy struggling to meet orders six months later as we have seen in a recent example

KEF bring in new sound engineers from university and clearly these companies are not daft. Celestion, Mission, B&W and others must have looked at what Royd were doing. Im also interested who is amalgamating under wang tung industries :( and who are the smaller operations

From a selfish point of view, Im gutted that Joe retired and is no longer with us. I would have loved his input on the forums or just to see what he may be producing now. I know it would be something very special indeed.

I want to see other people like Joe. I didnt want this guy to fail. There are some fantastic speakers out there.

The Minstrel intrigued me. I first saw saw them in the early 90s surrounded by multi driver floorstanders in the trendy beech finish. The minstrels were small, quirky looking with lumpy looking drive cones. People were generally scratching their heads. A hasty open floor demo was arranged and they sounded alright...then I went away and didnt buy a pair for twenty years..... They must have stunned me then :)

Im finally glad I own a pair after I lovingly degummed them. They are lovingly designed and just give a hint of something special on a beer budget

[fatmarley]

I really don’t understand why they just didn’t clone the original Minstrel enclosure. There is no IP, patents or copyright to worry about as Royd was never sold on.

A Hiquphon tweeter would’ve been a great replacement for the modded Vifa D19, the hard work would be sourcing / modding an appropriate 5.5in driver (important size for Royd speakers) that’ll work properly without a crossover... or just use a 1st order crossover and forget about hand doping drivers on a measurement jig...

When I suggested a much more complex crossover than the simple one he was using, he said it would be over budget, so there would have been no chance of the Hiquphon. But I agee that the Hiquphon would probably be the best replacement for the Vifa D19. For the woofer, the Scanspeak 15W/8530K00 would probably be my choice.

[YNWaN]

I really liked some of Joe’s designs, like the Sintra. I never warmed to the Minstrel though.

[fatmarley]

Adam lent me a pair of Minstrels to measure. When I first plugged them in after de-gumming them, I thought they were a one-trick pony because some music was great and others stuff, not so good. The next day they sounded completely different and almost everything was great. I still don't know what happened, but I can only think that they were still a bit gummed up.

I think they are a very good speaker, regardless of budget and the only thing that can let them down is a slightly ott treble. Like any speaker, put them in the wrong room or with the wrong electronics (something with a bright treble) and they won't give their best. Get it right, and they really can sing.

[Yomanze]

Would be great to DIY a Sintra / Sorcerer clone cab with glued steel plate inside, those Scanspeak drivers (braced) & Hiquphon tweeters, would be a gem I think.

[fatmarley]

Would be great to DIY a Sintra / Sorcerer clone cab with glued steel plate inside, those Scanspeak drivers (braced) & Hiquphon tweeters, would be a gem I think.

Forgot to say that those drivers have already been used together in a well respected diy design - Carrera (https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/carrera)

It would be very interesting to compare those to one of Joe's best designs. If I had to take a gamble, i'd bet on Joe beating the Carrera, but you never know...

[smallangryboy]

That would be me the original post is referring to, fascinating to see the warped lens that the armchair critics viewed the relaunched Royd and what little background info they actually have to its rebirth. There was a great deal of effort to contact Joe and seek his approval for the relaunch as well as to track down and purchase the original IP that had stayed dormant for over 14 years. It wasn't strictly needed and the intention to re-launch an existing iconic British audio brand was very genuine and very honest.

People speak as though it were sinister or cynical and I can assure you it was neither of those things. fatmarley was involved in the very early stages and does a disservice to the work carried out after his involvement, not to mention that the crossover he helped design that was ultimately discarded would have cost a huge amount commercially to produce and was just physically too big for the design.

Those with low opinions of the Troubadour generally heard them at the Whittlebury show which wasn't the best venue I'll agree, but others who actually went on to buy them were happy with their purchase and no we didn't just stick a port in for "more bass".

I find it truly sad that efforts to bring back a uniquely British audio company and give consumers more choice than the Chinese owned alternatives were met with so much resistance and outright venom. It is a tough and overcrowded space and a challenge for sure. I'd welcome anyone here to step up and try, we need more genuine British audio brands.

[Bourneendboy]

Well said Adam!

[Minstrel SE]

well Im glad you have replied. Its not a thread I would have started as I wished you every success.

On balance I was behind using the Royd name as it was available. Others pointed out the obvious that it would not be a Royd. I cant disagree with them but I did think that it would be nice touch to use the name with a quality speaker

Maybe the issue is that it was always going to be a brand people get precious over. Its not like a Chinese industry continuing on with one of the volume brands.

I havent heard them and I would have hoped you continue on with a small bookshelf model etc. As I said I am interested in new speakers being launched and what that entails. It is a competitive market with plenty of choice so I understand the need for a selling point

I have nothing to gloat about. I dont think your venture was met with resistance or venom and am sorry if you feel I have jumped on the bandwagon of armchair criticism

[smallangryboy]

I apologise as those comments weren't aimed at you at all - I was speaking of when I first started and the criticism I received. If you are ever my way then I would be delighted for you to come have a drink and have a listen...


well Im glad you have replied. Its not a thread I would have started as I wished you every success.

On balance I was behind using the Royd name as it was available. Others pointed out the obvious that it would not be a Royd. I cant disagree with them but I did think that it would be nice touch to use the name with a quality speaker

Maybe the issue is that it was always going to be a brand people get precious over. Its not like a Chinese industry continuing on with one of the volume brands.

I havent heard them and I would have hoped you continue on with a small bookshelf model etc. As I said I am interested in new speakers being launched and what that entails. It is a competitive market with plenty of choice so I understand the need for a selling point

I have nothing to gloat about. I dont think your venture was met with resistance or venom and am sorry if you feel I have jumped on the bandwagon of armchair criticism

[Mr. C]

I find it truly sad that efforts to bring back a uniquely British audio company and give consumers more choice than the Chinese owned alternatives were met with so much resistance and outright venom. It is a tough and overcrowded space and a challenge for sure. I'd welcome anyone here to step up and try, we need more genuine British audio brands.

Totally agree Adam well said

[smallangryboy]

Well said Adam!

Cheers ;)