View Full Version : Munich High End Show 2019
Well someone had to raise it.
A few Heathrow shots taken a hour ago to start... flying out tomoz.
They stopped doing direct flights from Bristol and I nearly didn't go, but hell, there's something I'm super curious about, so I had to go.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190507/7fe0c7a805348c7ccc2ee68881fcfe5c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190507/1361c0561f919bd5336c995ec0537b33.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190507/a39883f307c51478cf8069f64b9becd3.jpg
Good job your going Justin -guaranteed to get some decent photos rather than the sanitised journalistic stuff elsewhere on the net.
Why thanks Jim. The usual repertoire of totally honest don't give a flying doobery subjective twaddle is virtually guaranteed... given a decent pilot:D
hifinutt
07-05-2019, 18:23
thanks ,looking forward to hearing your thoughts . please be sure to report back on the verity audio room if you get a chance
Love reading your reports Justin.
Gonna cover Hi-Fi Deluxe this year too if all goes well. That's another show not too far from the main MoC based one.
Alsyvox 4 panel planar magnetic speaker setup in that one. That's what I'm curious about.
Frazeur1
07-05-2019, 22:21
Excellent, have a great trip and time at the show, always enjoy your photos and input!
Ali Tait
07-05-2019, 22:37
Nick Gorham and Dave Brooks are going, you might bump into them.
brian2957
08-05-2019, 04:39
Look forward to your feedback on this Justin .
Looking forward to your reports, enjoy your trip.
Nick Gorham and Dave Brooks are going, you might bump into them.
Is Dave going along to find out how you put together an £80K system that doesn't suffer from hum and distortion?
Yup Hi-Fi Deluxe is open on Thursday whereas MoC is trade that day.
So looks like a good session with the Alsyvox first.
https://alsyvox.com/products/
The one on dem is:
CARAVAGGIO
jandl100
08-05-2019, 09:02
Yup Hi-Fi Deluxe is open on Thursday whereas MoC is trade that day.
So looks like a good session with the Alsyvox first.
https://alsyvox.com/products/
The one on dem is:
CARAVAGGIO
Well, they look interesting!
Let's hope they let you play music that lets you hear what they can do.
Are they of the breed that if you need to ask about the price then you can't afford them?!
120Kg a panel. :eek:
Beobloke
08-05-2019, 11:48
I'll be out there on Thursday and Friday - looking forward to it.
The 3:15am alarm call tomorrow less so, though... :(
I'll be out there on Thursday and Friday - looking forward to it.
The 3:15am alarm call tomorrow less so, though... :(
there's a 3.15 in the morning now?
Spectral Morn
08-05-2019, 12:56
Looking forward to reading your comments Justin and hopefully, as in the past,you might allow me to repost your photos on my blog.
I'll be out there on Thursday and Friday - looking forward to it.
The 3:15am alarm call tomorrow less so, though... :(
Not really worth going to bed. In the olden days we'd have a late session, have a break to get the taxi to the airport, then carry on in the executive lounge once we got there. Now I'd probably not survive long enough for the taxi to turn up.
Well, they look interesting!
Let's hope they let you play music that lets you hear what they can do.
Are they of the breed that if you need to ask about the price then you can't afford them?!
120Kg a panel. :eek:They were Leonardo. They are basically Apogees but the bass driver has magnets either side of the diaphragm.
My mission is to establish whether that works. It has compromises Apogees don't have but also pluses.
I think the 2 panel version is about $100K. So ridiculous but hey I won't be buying any. I just want to see what has been achieved with them.
Looking forward to reading your comments Justin and hopefully, as in the past,you might allow me to repost your photos on my blog.No problem so long as you provide a link to this thread in your blog.
Spectral Morn
08-05-2019, 23:15
No problem so long as you provide a link to this thread in your blog.
No problem. Thank you
The local station for me.
For those that don't get it nevermind;)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/6bcd61a2c785e7f34cdbe91826de9cf7.jpg
Bingo.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/56b982ebf904e1650fc58c724072c76f.jpg
D.Klimo sounding very valve like and warm playing some jazz.
A bit low res and soft for my tastes.
Nice TT though.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/ebefda9ac45418a05db742667b623e09.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/557b8b7b0cfdaef6bfbf74fff04e6cd4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/dd236bfb09864dc093bc1e3234452c8b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/1e8bfebc1e7ad2ebd6b0b79283b30db9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/8cc34cfca1decb8efd19e366fd8594a9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/423d279188ed52851f01f3c47480af23.jpg
that'll be the valves doin' that :ner:
very high end looking gear Justin... hows the weather? its perishing here
It's nice. Quite warm. Like that Brodmann set up.
Acapella.
Some real low-fi here:D
Sounding very good on some female vocal.
I used Shazam to discover Stardust by Margareta Bengtson. https://www.shazam.com/track/204952227/stardust
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/6a71709a04fb3c3d15a66bb816d0f7d6.jpg
Oddly there's a cone driver behind each white horn. And it's firing directly into it with about half its surface area.
It does sound glorious on mid range focused material in here, though.
That said Nils Lofgren's Keith Don't Go and.my system at home has it beat. Again there's a slight softness going on here. The steel string doesn't sound that steely.
Still pretty nice, though. It has mine beat for scale no question.
Acapella.
Some real low-fi here:D
Sounding very good on some female vocal.
I used Shazam to discover Stardust by Margareta Bengtson. https://www.shazam.com/track/204952227/stardust
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/6a71709a04fb3c3d15a66bb816d0f7d6.jpg
Oddly there's a cone driver behind each white horn. And it's firing directly into it with about half its surface area.
It does sound glorious on mid range focused material in here, though.
That said Nils Lofgren's Keith Don't Go and.my system at home has it beat. Again there's a slight softness going on here. The steel string doesn't sound that steely.
Still pretty nice, though. It has mine beat for scale no question.
No good for nearfield listening :)
WTF?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/69f3716fea1b5222d721d001b3e60851.jpg
Sounding insane playing this audiophile BS.
I used Shazam to discover Guimarães: Trilobita by Uakti. https://www.shazam.com/track/100626067/guimarães-trilobita
Less convincing on Rodrigo Y Gabriela's Stairway but hey. Lacking bite and attack.
Good to 16Hz, made of a composite used in Formula 1.
Great scale. Very good on atmospheric stuff.
They just sound vast. Way bigger than the Acapellas did.
Must admit I am enjoying them. The top horn is throwing stuff everywhere LOL.
Power amps remind me of those 'foot spas' they advertise in the Sunday supplements.
its got a feminine look to it... Quite like it actually :eek:
I think they look like children's toys.
crimsondonkey
09-05-2019, 12:22
I’ve enjoyed nearly every A’capella I’ve heard, fabulous speakers.
WTF?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/69f3716fea1b5222d721d001b3e60851.jpg
Must admit I am enjoying them. The top horn is throwing stuff everywhere LOL.
That track is throwing sound all over the place on my desktop system. Does your head in.
Do the speakers have inbuilt LED light shows?
paulf-2007
09-05-2019, 12:42
Power amps remind me of those 'foot spas' they advertise in the Sunday supplements.
At first glance I thought it was a bathroom
That track is throwing sound all over the place on my desktop system. Does your head in.
Do the speakers have inbuilt LED light shows?No but talking to the main man you need 440K Euros to acquire that set up. The speakers are 140K.
Alsyvox. Just had a good chat with the main man.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/8518c0c97e6b169e7d1c42e8bad5452d.jpg
Now I am really lost on this.
AN systems have many followers and I understand why, but just look at those prices.
That's a pair of AN/Es for crying out loud. They can only go so far with that basic design and spending that amount to drive them is money wasted. Indeed a less expensive pair of Es is the way to go.
I have more pics but they are all mobile. So some will be poor in low light especially. Will post later.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/0c9a2cec1b0adafc88feb0f854801387.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/40b92793343380d78965880a0af9d141.jpg
Ammonite Audio
09-05-2019, 13:55
How did that system sound? At least with Audio Note you're buying quite a lot of silver bullion!
Now I am really lost on this.
AN systems have many followers and I understand why, but just look at those prices.
That's a pair of AN/Es for crying out loud. They can only go so far with that basic design and spending that amount to drive them is money wasted. Indeed a less expensive pair of Es is the way to go.
I have more pics but they are all mobile. So some will be poor in low light especially. Will post later.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/0c9a2cec1b0adafc88feb0f854801387.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/40b92793343380d78965880a0af9d141.jpg
Ali Tait
09-05-2019, 14:02
Is that 179,000 for speaker cable??
How did that system sound? At least with Audio Note you're buying quite a lot of silver bullion!Going back to it in a bit. Initially I think Bristol 2019 AN room was sounding better than what I heard a couple of hours ago.
So I have to return as it can't be true. Can it?
The Alsyvox room is good. When you walk out of it is when you realise it. Everything else has seemed a bit naff since. I am biased though.
Is that 179,000 for speaker cable??Does look like it doesn't it.
If you PayPal me £5K I'll send you a picture of it. Good value I reckon.
For Jerry. Liddle biddy MBLs.
Sounding OK but no bass. Jerry's are much better.
:)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/167663b943f806e6af1baaa1a296587c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/1502ddd26fa1bf1efa049b9a06622318.jpg
The Scottish made it.
Oddly with American Cary gear?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/d5c54df99a034831f394faed04857f8f.jpg
Ali Tait
09-05-2019, 15:40
Does look like it doesn't it.
If you PayPal me £5K I'll send you a picture of it. Good value I reckon.
Bargain LOL.
Back in the AN and the volume is up.
PQ rocking out.
I used Shazam to discover The Root Of All Evil by Dream Theater. https://www.shazam.com/track/40956677/the-root-of-all-evil
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/4e43a26c76e0ff10a7019de314ac19b0.jpg
hifi_dave
09-05-2019, 16:43
Is that T.DeP in front ?
Is that T.DeP in front ?No it's PQ. As stated.
]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/1502ddd26fa1bf1efa049b9a06622318.jpg
No need to ask Shazam (whoever she is) what was playing there. Good to see they have the confidence in their kit that they would dare to play something so demanding of the system.
If your referring to Dream Theater then that did sound good.
But TBH I stick by what I have said. Get an OK pair of Es, feed it with a Xiang Sheng and a decent valve amp and you won't be a million miles off what I heard today.
The Bristol spec system was very good (surely better than what I just suggested). No need to dump this amount of cash.
If your referring to Dream Theater then that did sound good.
.
No sorry, was being sarcastic about the Diana Krall. Not keen on DT but at least it is much more challenging programme to judge a system by.
cyclopse
09-05-2019, 19:00
Now I am really lost on this.
AN systems have many followers and I understand why, but just look at those prices.
That's a pair of AN/Es for crying out loud. They can only go so far with that basic design and spending that amount to drive them is money wasted. Indeed a less expensive pair of Es is the way to go.
I have more pics but they are all mobile. So some will be poor in low light especially. Will post later.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/0c9a2cec1b0adafc88feb0f854801387.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/40b92793343380d78965880a0af9d141.jpg
This makes the speaker cable the most expensive piece in the room! Surely it’s a typo.
The Alsyvox chap is going to quote me for some Alsyvox isolation feet in brushed steel. They'll cost less than Stillpoints.
That was definitely the highest performing system there. No question in my mind. Speed, resolution, scale, dynamics, clarity. After multiple visits every other room sounded like it was underperforming.
Re-visiting various rooms after they'd been on for a few hours paid some real dividends as they mainly seemed to improve quite noticeably.
The Alsyvox may be a bit too much for some. Not for me. Bring it on. They seemed to do classical well too.
That AN price list should be carved in granite or something.
MS Word and a poly pocket just doesn't cut it for a £125K dac.
cyclopse
09-05-2019, 19:37
That AN price list should be carved in granite or something.
MS Word and a poly pocket just doesn't cut it for a £125K dac.
Good point. Also check out that trolley wheel power amp stand. Guess equipment racks are not of interest.
Arm 3 must be really rubbish.
jandl100
09-05-2019, 20:07
Aw shucks - liddle eensy weensy MBLs.
Thanx for that.
Great pix and commentary. :thumbsup:
FM acoustics. I didn't see a price list but this stuff is insanely expensive so I am told.
Two sets of speakers, one bigger than the other. Heard both. Both OK pyramid styleee. Looks like nice kit. One of the preamps had a scratch filter.
They demoed this with a record with an X literally carved into it. My guess it is a simple notch filter and it is analogue but hey it worked really well targeting this specific scratch. More random scratches operating outside of the frequency range of this specific X scratch must get through, I figure.
The system was merely good with both sets of speakers I felt considering its expense. Bigger was better. It was too smooth and tried to sound too nice I felt.
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Arm 3 must be really rubbish.Yeah trash money. Total shite undoubtedly.
Maybe it's the hourly rate for 3 armed guards.
I've never 'got' the AN thing, and wonder just what other serious designers think when they assess their products.
Diesis Audio OB/Horn and Kondo Japan Ongaku.
The Ongaku really does sound quite like my 211s in terms of imaging and general presentation in this system I felt. Only mine bang out way more power, are monos and cost a damn site less.
Hey ho. Believe me or don't.
Interesting listen with interesting imaging. The horn/bass integration isn't seemless but it's not too bad. Dynamic, spacious and lively sounding but quite a bit of that comes from the amp.
You'll need to be in here when it's loudish and the room isn't packed. Second visit and the impression was completely different.
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crimsondonkey
10-05-2019, 07:41
The Ongaku really does sound quite like my 211s in terms of imaging and general presentation in this system I felt. Only mine bang out way more power, are monos and cost a damn site less.
I've heard a few and as they are usually paired with very sensitive horns etc it always surprises me how noisy they are. For that money I would expect better.
I've heard a few and as they are usually paired with very sensitive horns etc it always surprises me how noisy they are. For that money I would expect better.
Is that noisy from the transformers or from the speakers?
crimsondonkey
10-05-2019, 13:56
Through the speakers.
Through the speakers.
Yes that's a bit of a curse with SET amps. I have been told that you can remove it completely, but it kills the magic in the sound.
Ali Tait
10-05-2019, 18:01
All valve amps hum. Fact of life. You can minimise it though with good design/components and attention to layout.
All valve amps hum. Fact of life. You can minimise it though with good design/components and attention to layout.
No, they don't all hum - my Radford STA15 III doesn't 'hum at all.
Jack of what was BD Audio said check out Aeries Cerat.
Two years ago the Aeries Cerat set up really was NOT good. So I was surprised.
However, not being one to avoid a tip, I checked it out.
Award for most improved manufacturer at Munich goes to them. Not Alsyvox league, but just much better than two years ago.
Amps are insane. The six box job you see here. Will find out more tomorrow.
Trouble was the left channel kept dropping out towards the end. Bummer.:)
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WESTLOWER
10-05-2019, 18:25
No, they don't all hum - my Radford STA15 III doesn't 'hum at all.
No hum here on the Radford STA25
Ali Tait
10-05-2019, 19:01
No, they don't all hum - my Radford STA15 III doesn't 'hum at all.
Yes it does. It's just a such a low level and your speakers not sensitive enough that you cant hear it.
I reiterate- ALL valve amps hum, it's just a matter of degree.
Yes it does. It's just a such a low level and your speakers not sensitive enough that you cant hear it.
I reiterate- ALL valve amps hum, it's just a matter of degree.
Well it is true my electrostatics are not sensitive, but at full volume, without a signal, I can't hear anything even when listening close to the speaker.
I would have thought the presence or absence of hum was down the design of the power supply, and be independent of the amplifying devices.
Ali Tait
10-05-2019, 19:37
Good article here-
https://dalmura.com.au/static/Hum%20article.pdf
Is there a competition going on for weirdest looking speakers?
Jack of what was BD Audio said check out Aeries Cerat.
Two years ago the Aeries Cerat set up really was NOT good. So I was surprised.
However, not being one to avoid a tip, I checked it out.
Award for most improved manufacturer at Munich goes to them. Not Alsyvox league, but just much better than two years ago.
Amps are insane. The six box job you see here. Will find out more tomorrow.
Trouble was the left channel kept dropping out towards the end. Bummer.:)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/67612f8e8e906d25fb291ae5a7562261.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/adbad6536130b2532b576b1e647f5146.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/6fee7ea45ab5af60ba2e72a44261959a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/b55478d09d273fdec17facf4be67fd9a.jpg
Nick Gorham and Dave Brooks are going, you might bump into them.Spotted. I felt no need for communication but you can't miss Nick. Kind of unique visually:)
Pigmy Pony
10-05-2019, 22:31
Is there a competition going on for weirdest looking speakers?
I like that there are loudspeaker designers thinking 'outside the box' as it were. Shame the prices tend to be outside my box. Of course they need performance to match, or they are just 'lifestyle' products. Just out of curiosity Justin, did you see how much these ones were?
All academic really, as Mrs. Pony doesn't like weird looking as much as me.
Ali Tait
10-05-2019, 23:16
Spotted. I felt no need for communication but you can't miss Nick. Kind of unique visually:)
Aye you can’t miss him. :-)
Ali Tait
10-05-2019, 23:24
Jack of what was BD Audio said check out Aeries Cerat.
Two years ago the Aeries Cerat set up really was NOT good. So I was surprised.
However, not being one to avoid a tip, I checked it out.
Award for most improved manufacturer at Munich goes to them. Not Alsyvox league, but just much better than two years ago.
Amps are insane. The six box job you see here. Will find out more tomorrow.
Trouble was the left channel kept dropping out towards the end. Bummer.:)
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/67612f8e8e906d25fb291ae5a7562261.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/adbad6536130b2532b576b1e647f5146.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/6fee7ea45ab5af60ba2e72a44261959a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/b55478d09d273fdec17facf4be67fd9a.jpg
Are those 813’s?
montesquieu
12-05-2019, 23:07
Well my take on the show was that not much had moved on from two years ago when I was last there. Speaker-wise, there were fewer electrostatics (it seemed) but quite a thing going on for field coils, coming out of China. I liked the h0RNS room and actually there were quite a few good horn systems around as well as some truly terrible ones. The worst systems were as previously, very shiny very flashly finished speakers, mega-power solid state, attached to grainy, awful streaming systems. It beggars belief that their makers thought some of these systems worthy of display, let alone worthy of six figure price tags.
Quite a few class D amps around at ever increasing prices (£20k anyone? seriously?) they are getting there but still short of what a proper valve amp can do.
I can't say I thought much of those Alsyyvox panels, for me for all their power and bass control the soundstage they threw was flat as a pancake and surprisingly narrow. Wouldn't be my thing at all. (Justin's Apogees are much better in my view).
I thought the Audio Note room was pretty good, though IMO what all that mega-expensive front end and amplification showed up was that AN-Es can only be taken so far, even in ideal conditions (small room, stuck in corners etc). I really don't understand why PQ hasn't put some money into developing a better speaker range. I really wonder what that kit would sound with a better speaker choice. Still, the AN-S9 SUT, Io Limited, TT3 front end was utterly maginificent even if it did remind the audience that the uber-pricey new DAC still sounded like digital. For the first time at an Audio Note demo I saw them streaming something from a computer something PQ would never have countenanced a few years back. I guess that's the way the wind is blowing.
My favourite room was Kevin's room (Definitive) showing off the LV Olympians with Kondo amplification and a vinyl front end that I didn't get to properly inspect as the room was too focused on listening - the fact he held a full house spellbound for two full sides of chamber music (in a show dominated by girl-with-guitar, easy-listening jazz and the inescapable Pink Floyd) surely says something. It did the orchestral stuff pretty well too. Probably not one for the metal-heads though.
Tim de P did a great job with his EAR kit, just a sold, roundly musical job whether from vinyl, tape or CD. One of the best rooms in my view. Monoblocked EAR 861 power amps doing a superb job.
The Thomas Mayer room was a highlight, the first set of open baffles I've heard to really do subtlety and soundstage, the last pair (well several pairs) I heard was at the owner of SW1X which were so bad they were enough to put me off open baffles for life - coarse, papery, timbre a mile off, lumpy response - anyway these were the opposite. Thomas Mayer had his D3a phono stage and a variable EQ mono version on display and had I had 14k Euros each down the back of the sofa I'd have been away with them. Very, very good indeed. Some Count Basie on 78 utterly disgraced what was coming out of some six figure streaming systems from a musical perspective.
My terrible pic - phono stage, preamp and mono phono with variable EQ (top deck is the business end, power supplies on the bottom):
https://i.imgur.com/gtTL5S6.jpg
I'm sure Justin will be posting pics of the rest of the show but I'll just mention a few of my highlights, first was what I think is a very cheap way into record cleaning from Keith Monks ... space-saving and slower/less vacuum and a shade noisier than than their bigger machines, list on this will be £795 on Amazon
https://i.imgur.com/f9YR5sP.jpg
You read it here first - Thorens are reissuing the TD124, though disappointingly as direct drive rather than as an idler. I didn't get an idea of price but it's sure to be cheaper than the £17k reissue of the Garrard 301. The Thorens reissue misses the point - even as a Thorens owner I see it as an ugly duckling compared to the Garrard 301 and 401, but it routinely out performs both especially in Schopper form. It's not the looks that made it popular. It's interesting that new owners SME went for the 301 as a reissue over the 401, again all other things being equal (and both can be extensively improved from standard) the 401 is the better machine, but the 301 is such a beauty ...
https://i.imgur.com/kljcseP.jpg
Finally a comment on this one that Justin posted already, 440k euros for a Tellytubby play set, I've heard at least half a dozen systems of members here that sounded better (including mine I should add). It's a piss take.
https://i.imgur.com/xIGUu3U.jpg
You read it here first - Thorens are reissuing the TD124, though disappointingly as direct drive rather than as an idler. I didn't get an idea of price but it's sure to be cheaper than the £17k reissue of the Garrard 301. The Thorens reissue misses the point - even as a Thorens owner I see it as an ugly duckling compared to the Garrard 301 and 401, but it routinely out performs both especially in Schopper form. It's not the looks that made it popular. It's interesting that new owners SME went for the 301 as a reissue over the 401, again all other things being equal (and both can be extensively improved from standard) the 401 is the better machine, but the 301 is such a beauty ...
https://i.imgur.com/kljcseP.jpg
Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I love the looks of the TD124/II and have three of them. The only 301 I like the look of is the original grey hammertone finish version.
Is the Thorens shown in the picture the new direct drive offering? TD124/III ? And is the arm a revamped BD-12S or a revamped EMT 929? Both are, IMO, somewhat 'agricultural' in their construction and performance, and I would hope and expect the new arm to be much improved.
Spectral Morn
13-05-2019, 13:52
As SME, now own Loricraft, who own the Garrard name, not surprised to see that there will be a Garrard re issue. Also not surprised it will be a 301, rather than 401.
Where will that leave Classic Record Company and their modernized Garrard's :scratch: Which by virtue of having new plinths, new bearing, platters etc are not refurbished originals as Audio Grails are, but rather almost sort of what SME/Garrard will be doing. There are also several US companies doing similar to CRC, but more so.
Law suits anyone?
Watch this space :popcorn:
Would the patent on the original Garrard design still be active? Seems unlikely.
Spectral Morn
13-05-2019, 15:01
Would the patent on the original Garrard design still be active? Seems unlikely.
Not sure, but I know Terry of Loricraft owns the trade name, and some design elements, what exactly I don't know. He bought all that from the company that bought the remains of Garrard. I can't recall who that is, someone in south America I think.
Gradiente Brazil.
I know Loricraft have the right to use the name, and if you are refurbing existing decks like Audio Grail that is not an issue either. The patent on the design must have expired. So as long as you don't use the Garrard name I'd guess you can market whatever you like, exact copies even. Badge them as 'Gerrard'.
Spectral Morn
13-05-2019, 15:57
Gradiente Brazil.
I know Loricraft have the right to use the name, and if you are refurbing existing decks like Audio Grail that is not an issue either. The patent on the design must have expired. So as long as you don't use the Garrard name I'd guess you can market whatever you like, exact copies even. Badge them as 'Gerrard'.
I cant comment, time will tell if there is an issue.
Yes, that the name. I thought it was Brazil.
montesquieu
13-05-2019, 16:33
Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder - I love the looks of the TD124/II and have three of them. The only 301 I like the look of is the original grey hammertone finish version.
Is the Thorens shown in the picture the new direct drive offering? TD124/III ? And is the arm a revamped BD-12S or a revamped EMT 929? Both are, IMO, somewhat 'agricultural' in their construction and performance, and I would hope and expect the new arm to be much improved.
The arm appears to be some kind of recreation of a BD12S. I agree it looked a bit basic but I guess Thorens themselves have no arm that would really work, their more modern arms would be 'wrong'. Personally I didn't like it much, the case appears to be thick plastic rather than metal, it only does 33 and 45, and the DD gubbins looked a bit meh (I did see under the platter but wasn't quick enough to take a pic). Frankly it looks like a toy.
At least SME did the retro thing properly and £12k (sorry I must have misheard the £17k) is possibly unsurprising given this won't be a volume seller and the market positioning of the SME brand's TTs. Be interesting how it performs, given how knowledge has been built over the intervening 60 years about how to make a high-performing, whisper-quiet idler, that wasn't the case in the 50s heyday of the original 301. Personally I'm not a fan of the SME belt drive TTs they sound like CD players to my ears though I know they have their fans.
I suspect the bearing and idler mechanism will be upgraded significantly from the ropey 301 I used to own.
AFAIK, patents (in the UK) are granted for an initial period of seven years and can be renewed, if applied for twice. So a maximum of 21 years.
It was the expiry of Ortofon's patent on the stereo moving coil cartridge in the late '80s, that saw the explosion of Japanese made MC designs.
I don't believe there is a lifetime for registered trademarks, so if Loricraft own rights to the the name, then SME would have to buy it of them. But there would no problem in copying (and presumably improving) a '301'. The model designation '401' and '501' have already be assigned, and I believe there was a '601' in development. So the new deck will either be a '601' or a '701'. If SME want to do the job properly, they will buy the trademark and call the new deck the 'SME "Garrard"'.
Spectral Morn
13-05-2019, 18:07
AFAIK, patents (in the UK) are granted for an initial period of seven years and can be renewed, if applied for twice. So a maximum of 21 years.
It was the expiry of Ortofon's patent on the stereo moving coil cartridge in the late '80s, that saw the explosion of Japanese made MC designs.
I don't believe there is a lifetime for registered trademarks, so if Loricraft own rights to the the name, then SME would have to buy it of them. But there would no problem in copying (and presumably improving) a '301'. The model designation '401' and '501' have already be assigned, and I believe there was a '601' in development. So the new deck will either be a '601' or a '701'. If SME want to do the job properly, they will buy the trademark and call the new deck the 'SME "Garrard"'.
SME own Loricraft, who own Garrard trade name etc, so SME already can do what they like I guess.
SME own Loricraft, who own Garrard trade name etc, so SME already can do what they like I guess.
Not necessarily the case: SME might have bought the Loricraft business, but Terry might still retain the rights to the name "Garrard".
But I expect SME have also bought the rights to the name; they would be foolish not to.
I might be wrong but I think Loricraft bought the right to use the name, not the rights to the name. But that was a long time ago the situation may have changed since.
If you forget about the price of the Tellytubby speakers they are good fun, I maintain.
And that's just it. You HAVE to forget about the price of things at Munich and enjoy what you hear. Comedy pricing is everywhere.
For comedy pricing you need good marketing.... well, maybe:D. Check out the gallery at the AskJa website (https://www.askja-audio.com/EN/askja-gallery.html).
I have taken way too many pics which makes sorting it all out a nightmare...
In fact I can't be arsed...:)
For comedy pricing you need good marketing.... well, maybe:D. Check out the gallery at the AskJa website (https://www.askja-audio.com/EN/askja-gallery.html).
..
They look a lot better in white, is my conclusion from looking at that link. And it only has one pic of them in white and about ten in bathroom accessory blue. Bit of a fail there.
paulf-2007
13-05-2019, 20:02
Well my take on the show was that not much had moved on from two years ago when I was last there. Speaker-wise, there were fewer electrostatics (it seemed) but quite a thing going on for field coils, coming out of China. I liked the h0RNS room and actually there were quite a few good horn systems around as well as some truly terrible ones. The worst systems were as previously, very shiny very flashly finished speakers, mega-power solid state, attached to grainy, awful streaming systems. It beggars belief that their makers thought some of these systems worthy of display, let alone worthy of six figure price tags.
Quite a few class D amps around at ever increasing prices (£20k anyone? seriously?) they are getting there but still short of what a proper valve amp can do.
I can't say I thought much of those Alsyyvox panels, for me for all their power and bass control the soundstage they threw was flat as a pancake and surprisingly narrow. Wouldn't be my thing at all. (Justin's Apogees are much better in my view).
I thought the Audio Note room was pretty good, though IMO what all that mega-expensive front end and amplification showed up was that AN-Es can only be taken so far, even in ideal conditions (small room, stuck in corners etc). I really don't understand why PQ hasn't put some money into developing a better speaker range. I really wonder what that kit would sound with a better speaker choice. Still, the AN-S9 SUT, Io Limited, TT3 front end was utterly maginificent even if it did remind the audience that the uber-pricey new DAC still sounded like digital. For the first time at an Audio Note demo I saw them streaming something from a computer something PQ would never have countenanced a few years back. I guess that's the way the wind is blowing.
My favourite room was Kevin's room (Definitive) showing off the LV Olympians with Kondo amplification and a vinyl front end that I didn't get to properly inspect as the room was too focused on listening - the fact he held a full house spellbound for two full sides of chamber music (in a show dominated by girl-with-guitar, easy-listening jazz and the inescapable Pink Floyd) surely says something. It did the orchestral stuff pretty well too. Probably not one for the metal-heads though.
Tim de P did a great job with his EAR kit, just a sold, roundly musical job whether from vinyl, tape or CD. One of the best rooms in my view. Monoblocked EAR 861 power amps doing a superb job.
The Thomas Mayer room was a highlight, the first set of open baffles I've heard to really do subtlety and soundstage, the last pair (well several pairs) I heard was at the owner of SW1X which were so bad they were enough to put me off open baffles for life - coarse, papery, timbre a mile off, lumpy response - anyway these were the opposite. Thomas Mayer had his D3a phono stage and a variable EQ mono version on display and had I had 14k Euros each down the back of the sofa I'd have been away with them. Very, very good indeed. Some Count Basie on 78 utterly disgraced what was coming out of some six figure streaming systems from a musical perspective.
My terrible pic - phono stage, preamp and mono phono with variable EQ (top deck is the business end, power supplies on the bottom):
https://i.imgur.com/gtTL5S6.jpg
I'm sure Justin will be posting pics of the rest of the show but I'll just mention a few of my highlights, first was what I think is a very cheap way into record cleaning from Keith Monks ... space-saving and slower/less vacuum and a shade noisier than than their bigger machines, list on this will be £795 on Amazon
https://i.imgur.com/f9YR5sP.jpg
You read it here first - Thorens are reissuing the TD124, though disappointingly as direct drive rather than as an idler. I didn't get an idea of price but it's sure to be cheaper than the £17k reissue of the Garrard 301. The Thorens reissue misses the point - even as a Thorens owner I see it as an ugly duckling compared to the Garrard 301 and 401, but it routinely out performs both especially in Schopper form. It's not the looks that made it popular. It's interesting that new owners SME went for the 301 as a reissue over the 401, again all other things being equal (and both can be extensively improved from standard) the 401 is the better machine, but the 301 is such a beauty ...
https://i.imgur.com/kljcseP.jpg
Finally a comment on this one that Justin posted already, 440k euros for a Tellytubby play set, I've heard at least half a dozen systems of members here that sounded better (including mine I should add). It's a piss take.
https://i.imgur.com/xIGUu3U.jpgthat rcm looks like something knocked up in someone's shed, I reckon the td124 is better looking than the 301 and 401, but the new one looks naff.
Vrajbasi
13-05-2019, 20:05
Not necessarily the case: SME might have bought the Loricraft business, but Terry might still retain the rights to the name "Garrard".
But I expect SME have also bought the rights to the name; they would be foolish not to.
Sme purchased the rights to the name from the Brazilian owner, they have now opened a Garrard Factory in swindon where terry will be working from with the assistance of sme trained staff.
The 301 as shown in Munich is a serviced unit, with a solid walnut plinth with stainless steel struts coupled with the same dampening material as used in the model 10 and new sme model 12, the feet are a custom version of the model 30 plinth with further isolation supplied with the M12R tonearm all in for a whopping £12500.
montesquieu
13-05-2019, 20:12
that rcm looks like something knocked up in someone's shed, I reckon the td124 is better looking than the 301 and 401, but the new one looks naff.
To be fair it looks better in real life than in my really shit photo. I think it's footprint is quite appealing and the cleaning will be pretty effective given it's the nozzle type as used by KM and Loricraft.
The TD124 by contrast is even worse than it looks in my pic, what possessed them to use that flat dark grey?
montesquieu
13-05-2019, 20:15
If you forget about the price of the Tellytubby speakers they are good fun, I maintain.
And that's just it. You HAVE to forget about the price of things at Munich and enjoy what you hear. Comedy pricing is everywhere.
For comedy pricing you need good marketing.... well, maybe:D. Check out the gallery at the AskJa website (https://www.askja-audio.com/EN/askja-gallery.html).
I have taken way too many pics which makes sorting it all out a nightmare...
Brilliant web site. I wonder whose yacht - Vladimir Putin's perhaps?
Actually to be fair I thought the speakers did quite well from a pair of 300bs. When I asked the price I thought he said 140k Euros to start with and that almost seemed like 'yeah I guess' in a Munich context. But 440k is ... well ...
I'll upload all my pics somewhere so anyone can download them in one go. Might take a while.
Brilliant web site. I wonder whose yacht - Vladimir Putin's perhaps?
Actually to be fair I thought the speakers did quite well from a pair of 300bs. When I asked the price I thought he said 140k Euros to start with and that almost seemed like 'yeah I guess' in a Munich context. But 440k is ... well ...
I had a chat with him over a smoke and he showed me some in tank camouflage... looked pretty cool. 140K Euros is for just the speakers.
I heard a story about Italians not being able to buy anything for more than 500 Euros in cash in Italy at the moment and arriving at the show with suitcases full of it. That's AskJa's ideal customer. Mafiosi.
Think it was 10k here. Was to defeat money laundering
Here we go some Hi-Fu Deluxe vibe - just cos the music is kinda cool.
Northern Hemisphere - East Of Eden.
The OnePlus 6 mic sucks. But hey.
https://youtu.be/cFqlSp3Eryc
And the Alsyvox doing something. The CDP and the amp aesthetics, well, that a matter of taste, I guess. Somehow looks a bit cheap in the video. More convincing in real life.
https://youtu.be/vJU04cMHvBY
montesquieu
13-05-2019, 22:20
And the Alsyvox doing something. The CDP and the amp aesthetics, well, that a matter of taste, I guess. Somehow looks a bit cheap in the video. More convincing in real life.
https://youtu.be/vJU04cMHvBY
Quite thoughtfull really that you could listen to the hifi and practice your putting at the same time.
I'd just like to say that this is a brilliant thread, and a credit to AoS. So as usual, thanks to Justin for sharing his views and superb pictures of another major hi-fi show! Nice one, mate:cool::thumbsup:
I'll comment on some of the stuff later.
Marco.
brian2957
14-05-2019, 05:46
+1 for this . I'm abroad at the minute and have been thoroughly enjoying this thread on my pad .
Thanks Justin .
I will comment further when I get home :)
The East of Eden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_of_Eden_(band))track used in the FM Acoustics video was an LP that the demonstrator explained was better as a US pressing than a UK one.
When he showed both copies, despite being on the same label, the UK version used about 2cm less of the available space per side.
As an American, he was taking great glee in making it clear the US pressing was superior.
Wanker.
Mind you, he was right.
Double wanker.;)
(Best read in jest as that's the intent).
New DAC from Thomas Meyer.
Nice, looks affordable maybe... want, want, want...
And then I saw the other two boxes and realised - gotta be £20K.
Hate, hate, hate.
https://gayfma.db.files.1drv.com/y4mnZEaMtXqr7XRh15hrM8tz2_3G6siBm_QJvLw2Bo9XO5ig90 U0ygl7yqXd8BKnY2_Uvldj_CHTLpvAKDfXxVUHLH2-44ebqeOn18LwBXjbad4B6pUz-JUjrJJnTTB1v_5WUGgXFi5ep2-d75dCg5yKqwBWgBpT46h1SpjHEEhwABeGLVUjE_c5TADaAJwX6 BGZApKz-Szv77DzSk7x4bGJQ?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
Testing - can you see these images people?
https://fkzo0g.db.files.1drv.com/y4mLS5bXOjM66tEJaeziQpVRbJFMmn_EqgfeYq7vkyuioOgkdv Hv2xrk1ZfTAnyqyMUWjMNulMdgvLTj9p1EVU-JDzJHnzpLiqN8SGU_sbi4YAGF-7mC2pfM-_n25-NY66VTtsoSnaAld185SrCnwE37xga7dtximYsldg7Ab4uutKlB UOWCB9jKbwNrY0i-JL6qLcuoCWUls-6g0QJ78jmMw?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
Prototype TT from Metronome. Rep said available within 2 years... long wait.
https://e6biqw.db.files.1drv.com/y4mfo4vZP_Nr7ee6T-UHK9Sp2wLGv16H3VE6Bzev6_2N7eiSzOOhVrwUo5zxoW67KxQY uLXaTjZzPURKFcumFeSx6poPBxPSyJiB2eZHE46--rGp-Pnrw26jiN3NaCR4j5L42aenhMAlbXJDI5RSA4Vl_1jPUEt3e9I uStM69qFdNFPLDLBbCdvCxpRQ8yajyMc_j1KjR2p8Fl8guV2Sa bdIw?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
AX SuperJet.
Same BD4 driver as the Pnoe. The Pnoe is good.
However, this implementation wants to bypass your ears and make a direct connection to your brain. Raw? Shrill? Understatement.
Shame - really wanted to like them.
Look cool, though, I reckon.
That's the daughter of the chap that is responsible for them. Good host dishing out freebies.
https://4wnfug.db.files.1drv.com/y4mdX1WGgPav68LvT8F9h-QR-x55CzZw-6OcdVywDpNSD3nkWiGx4A5lVz-kzq_6c2VWdJelqo6-9H4EEiLiKtHh1xsDrkpe9cwUIFRof3n-0lS_o8tRlWQSV6irkQ1Px7f2mWq7Cu34lvUh04lxV8TqdYy_8-IfgSMns4GtHJ8Nfyg9nPbc0DMRYc7ljXDhOAqAtzY0DsN9lJTV 7wqgmcULA?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
https://6amwga.db.files.1drv.com/y4mfj_qGSWh9gIcMYUUg4e0febAML9JQuLViB8smfPiIncHIzI lfT-geI1kP64YUNVMYI0tAxCIcqS3jg2iqNLM-J5xPR-1G36p4JTdBM8wp62DhKZAJE1VRXfdvkyZk9650YeKnzFCKMHCp C0ta-MZuuENm5UaOxLM4wYL9jj_19hfXdOP8l3Tf8gy9jcudNiRa-D6cC15DiloTf4rrBN9gg?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
https://6wmwga.db.files.1drv.com/y4mgNvOlE4QuKYwYxHA5pr-tML4TXf9uIK9xiIqQuSdxCFPY3L1UgEH3oR-6SHFVlAeX8RbQWFjFpIdEmWqaTzoEOxCZOj55PTNwlu0hKfBaX Phj-GU8LmH--TQ9A_jw1Q8GOCl0u4gg-JTrhzkFM21daiV5v_fhCtOi1opH8XSHLadwyXnPL2BVf7xAbBs 1JYr1is1vu75sECQRXDKemggMQ?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
First real like Model 3 I've seen.
https://6qmwga.db.files.1drv.com/y4my-sc5u3L4l7Om5MpBiY92O6XZiozAnxk5_K2lhRRlb3smG81RKau DoCkQL7DxC_88-wui7aZjkJ7dBF9T2UlOLytHyv19sN7XA2BnZc_X7d0O-Lt33fwbMBZKHvoo9BeuWUcH5SClIDyfFd1NqGogaNRK_ackxzz FKgzZ6pz29vbeC3Kc97WWHbOmB9qxi41Z1ZFJYnlqYRXX_P5Bg OTqg?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
AMT headphones patent pending. World first.
Tried them on. Weigh a ton and the cups just wouldn't sit on my ears correctly.
Open back. Not a good idea IMHO.
https://soqtaa.db.files.1drv.com/y4mQIY_HRs4AQm7JDoYGk1EY3whr1Usv3ULB2b_kAf4qsIDhZM JSpC-MuP3God9kFwF2nqpauOpxo7KNqX3ekUe8GyDP-9c8Dn4sFxzEaiv-bfkxyp_kB-4m_3FVEqyfvZaJVlssdCnRxlX_5DJJaj9g9CH7lD0upvHHCJmS UKM-fwnAcPtfYYsA05WqCP6OrjjSFpe_FtXNNho4TZR9C2Pdw?widt h=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
Lampizator Pacific basically sounding rubbish into AudioNec speakers.
Note to Lukasz: "It's Munich I must use better speakers". AudioNec The Answer would have done the job. Great speaker, that.
https://so9udq.db.files.1drv.com/y4mNYoOuLwqhOnjYadyaqBiVCGsmSfuRU3a8ujEO27kNyxYRAi XVLfU0_7iGlk1R270yErb2-6Le3jXQ45FzB4xuPnl2PKlXlehX-iCftqQ0JXtU3px8OQ6Yj6RVPlnQMtz7uQRjlkhhbfQ8S9WVRS4 0UXd3E1sscFOL6XjkwsYAPSRC1s944_wTsl4HV5J639h9UPa-slTmf06--Y6-5udHA?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
https://t4qtaa.db.files.1drv.com/y4mabLp3YGz41JhLKmQ5SMIoTpYJnyllKbkY7u4m8OIcVoBXJ0 IlByc91lTqrIQQcL3x3jqd9MmORWCqHYPYKijlB82MxcXFDOPE nfiU6seqj0uDZBvAuIxbIBx3wPjmvyRlAwa1_56nviXxTS3So8 7JAA8AOhaAo9f6fubKF5DAOrAKj93Q7Mdn1W-rTGkpKIcxaroMvASocwkfOEt141Abw?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
I generally don't like Cessaro. But this year this room sounded good. And then they put a Yello track on loud and I was gobsmacked.
With about 15 people in the room only one other person seemd to react to just how well it was coming out. He looked around looking to see what other people's reactions were. He caught my eye. He was looking astonished. I was too. I gave him the thumbs up and he reciprocated.
I've heard Yello on Trios and basshorns but trust me, on this track the Cessaros were amazing. Literally.
https://sopdfw.db.files.1drv.com/y4m1QYdJClcz3Svl1a_Vgc6Fs_JIqZpbiSuND44_ZYIKaVQzwG maryRnBUD-ENHUl8BdJkVjAVS6uwbjnW00_7Tx7Koea84TMpB84qj-xzPmKDV8pVZCaDkNhtYM8t1nPDj5fDn6uf5l5Brxw7DTvbruHO CYEyJIjzlzx8xxiz6Mv7aqdg8pZPitOxYkUj5RYTSysXh-MYNfSWcweVuFVEJ4A?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
This sub is HUGE - way bigger than it looks here.
https://t49udq.db.files.1drv.com/y4msNqYO8aN4eGw5_x-JicEfXutbF6photkUxKqNvNwbOvjJg4C4u3SimN-EaO8URm5hnJxZuSYLD5VhG5Yk13f0W8ZZmVhox2w_XYqu64UIU GxgTXmXUJUyeN-qkQl8Em7LY8vdSsyTp9SOpxKY8rQXFFMqRFrZp6K_t1Vq2mLxi HbPnkUsM94CMM7uSwYda7juBqgP4sPBXYIJVbTM606sA?width =4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
walpurgis
15-05-2019, 20:31
AMT headphones patent pending. World first.
Interesting. A driver type I'd expect to be well suited to headphone use.
Interesting. A driver type I'd expect to be well suited to headphone use.
Until you try them? The weight was ridiculous. It is impossible to assess open backs there. Too much ambient noise. They might sound good.
I generally don't like Cessaro. But this year this room sounded good. And then they put a Yello track on loud and I was gobsmacked.
With about 15 people in the room only one other person seemd to react to just how well it was coming out. He looked around looking to see what other people's reactions were. He caught my eye. He was looking astonished. I was too. I gave him the thumbs up and he reciprocated.
I've heard Yello on Trios and basshorns but trust me, on this track the Cessaros we amazing. Literally.
This sub is HUGE - way bigger than it looks here.
Ooooo I remember the Cessaros in Munich last year - pipped the Avant Gardes by a fair margin. Greater lucidity, depth, texture ...
Just wish I had the space - and dough - to be able to afford a well set up horn system.
All Sunday pics (https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApUl1xxOUo0llV-AAlA0F4aZWUO-)
All Saturday pics (https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApUl1xxOUo0llhyz29ThFqYxSF-v)
All Friday pics (https://1drv.ms/f/s!ApUl1xxOUo0llkXvakzSe9L95UaL)
All Thursday pics (link when OneDrive decides to work)
Thursday (Hi-Fi Deluxe) (https://1drv.ms/a/s!ApUl1xxOUo0lln5hq2Trzt89Ev26)
German street sounds keeping it real.
The photo links above don't even work for me at the mo. Will try and resolve tomorrow.
https://youtu.be/jVuNtYShSio
brian2957
15-05-2019, 22:04
Some fantastic pictures Justin , and an equally interesting thread . I've spent quite a while working my way through the pictures and the posts . Thanks for taking the time to do this :)
It won't be. I don't 'get' AN at all.
great photos on this thread - the Munich show is amazing......lots of terrible bling as well
I watched the newly uploaded ‘Analog planet’ turntables walkthrough on you tube….always a great job by Michael Fremer….
The standouts for me were the Dohmannn Helix-1 mk2 and the quite awesome Wilson Benesch GMT and graviton arm…..I wish them every success with the turntable….I suspect the cost will be quite high :eyebrows::stalks:
I generally don't like Cessaro. But this year this room sounded good. And then they put a Yello track on loud and I was gobsmacked.
With about 15 people in the room only one other person seemd to react to just how well it was coming out. He looked around looking to see what other people's reactions were. He caught my eye. He was looking astonished. I was too. I gave him the thumbs up and he reciprocated.
I've heard Yello on Trios and basshorns but trust me, on this track the Cessaros were amazing. Literally.
https://sopdfw.db.files.1drv.com/y4m1QYdJClcz3Svl1a_Vgc6Fs_JIqZpbiSuND44_ZYIKaVQzwG maryRnBUD-ENHUl8BdJkVjAVS6uwbjnW00_7Tx7Koea84TMpB84qj-xzPmKDV8pVZCaDkNhtYM8t1nPDj5fDn6uf5l5Brxw7DTvbruHO CYEyJIjzlzx8xxiz6Mv7aqdg8pZPitOxYkUj5RYTSysXh-MYNfSWcweVuFVEJ4A?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
This sub is HUGE - way bigger than it looks here.
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There must be some bloody good isolation under that turntable :stalks:
There must be some bloody good isolation under that turntable :stalks:
Those were my thoughts as well.
Awesome thread Justin. Great photos and write up. Even if I had the money I wouldn't spend the amount most of these systems cost (and a lot of it is all rather vulgar and "all about the bling", IMHO) but it is very interesting to read and see nonetheless - as Jim Bowen used to to say "look what you could've won!"
Thanks chaps. Will post some more opinions in the next few days.
Need time to absorb that little lot and say meaningful things. But they will only be opinions. They will be meaningful to me. But to anyone else? Diatribe, possibly.
brian2957
16-05-2019, 19:30
Your thread , your ears , your tastes , your opinion Justin :)
Did you see the new Wilson Benesch turntable?
Yes bigmoog, "....lots of terrible bling as well ", I think so too.
I think the industrial designers, from art colleges, and who are obsessed with shapes and finishes, have done for Hi-Fi what accountants have done for much else, taken over from the functioning of things.
paulf-2007
17-05-2019, 14:44
AX SuperJet.
Same BD4 driver as the Pnoe. The Pnoe is good.
However, this implementation wants to bypass your ears and make a direct connection to your brain. Raw? Shrill? Understatement.
Shame - really wanted to like them.
Look cool, though, I reckon.
That's the daughter of the chap that is responsible for them. Good host dishing out freebies.
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I like the look of Pnoe but not heard them, just a gut feeling tells me they are special
Weird speakers time, in this case Bayz, which is an omni.
Original styling, they actually sounded pretty good.
If you're bored, check them out here: http://www.bayz-audio.eu/
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Mr Hyundai and this year's Western Electric speakers.
Every year he brings different Western Electrics. He must have room fulls of the things. And room fulls.
Silbatone/GIP fettled I am sure.
Check out the Silbatone amps using really early triodes like VT-2.
https://youtu.be/lpqmWzbH2kg
On the theme of weird speakers, some huge Chinese carbon fibre horns.
Only 12K Euros I heard.
Mickey mouse ear horns. Not really hi-fi and it becomes obvious on certain material. Good for the kids playroom in a rich man's house.
The scale and massive bass output from the 'ears' is something to behold, though.
Don't take them seriously and they are really good fun.
https://youtu.be/LIOfyvJupjc
AJSki2fly
18-05-2019, 11:40
Weird speakers time, in this case Bayz, which is an omni.
Original styling, they actually sounded pretty good.
If you're bored, check them out here: http://www.bayz-audio.eu/
https://tyq7ww.db.files.1drv.com/y4mFr09jvUJqBzNwq9juB1vuvZfO6OIKgatNIIwfOKaLsvvfSN sRMuZ5jy0IocvFHfgnAul1jnQgmrJ3lhQ3AR8T_aR2_vD3-A8X5pOKqOfeXYg4FksM_amJ_3gjAjZQNLYXQPBzpInn7NaEGsP tjd48Y6eyMg7PhEArtDzN72OJVPXLj1cfBGn8BZiynsotW4o2d EkGakElaVXtDPYcpwdAw?width=4608&height=2176&cropmode=none
"The Counterpoint’s suggested retail price is $97,100", I bet it is, I can think of a better way to spend that sort of money.
Actually I forgot to say Joe Roberts (Sound Practices anyone? Or regular visitors?) wasn't at Munich this year in the Silbatone room.
A real personality. He's in South Korea having heart bypass surgery. I hope he does well.
I got that from some PS Audio guys on the train to the MoC.
My favourite room was Kevin's room (Definitive) showing off the LV Olympians with Kondo amplification and a vinyl front end that I didn't get to properly inspect as the room was too focused on listening - the fact he held a full house spellbound for two full sides of chamber music (in a show dominated by girl-with-guitar, easy-listening jazz and the inescapable Pink Floyd) surely says something. It did the orchestral stuff pretty well too. Probably not one for the metal-heads though.
Likewise, although it was the Vox Palladium and Vox Basso this year, rather than the Olympians. The room has used vintage era Kondo electronics each year I have visited.
The turntable was a Grand Prix Audio with three arms !!! Kuzma tonearm/cartridge and Viv Labs RF7" with Ortofon SPU Century or Royal GM MK II combinations
Vrajbasi
21-05-2019, 11:17
Likewise, although it was the Vox Palladium and Vox Basso this year, rather than the Olympians. The room has used vintage era Kondo electronics each year I have visited.
The turntable was a Grand Prix Audio with three arms !!! Kuzma tonearm/cartridge and Viv Labs RF7" with Ortofon SPU Century or Royal GM MK II combinations
Interesting he uses the spu on the Grand Prix I owned one found the turntable very dry and cd like very precise sounding, the Spu cartridges would certainly help it to sound more natural. I use vintage kondo amplifiers in one of my systems to my ears far more musically satisfying than some of the newer designs.
Interesting he uses the spu on the Grand Prix I owned one found the turntable very dry and cd like very precise sounding, the Spu cartridges would certainly help it to sound more natural.
That is a good description based on the first time I heard the Grand Prix, but then with the Kuzma 4Point and a Fuuga it was far more musically sympathetic, whilst retaining that rock solid basis.
I use vintage kondo amplifiers in one of my systems to my ears far more musically satisfying than some of the newer designs.
I would tend to agree based on my experience in other people's systems
Likewise, although it was the Vox Palladium and Vox Basso this year, rather than the Olympians. The room has used vintage era Kondo electronics each year I have visited.
The turntable was a Grand Prix Audio with three arms !!! Kuzma tonearm/cartridge and Viv Labs RF7" with Ortofon SPU Century or Royal GM MK II combinations
I'm bored to hell with it, purely because of the music Kevin plays.
Every year I sit there and I try, but I just can't relate to it.
When I walk in and hear blaring techno or bass heavy electronic or even some decent rock at high volume, I'll crack open a bottle of champagne, but ONLY if the system is capable of it. I have my doubts...:D
I'm bored to hell with it, purely because of the music Kevin plays.
Every year I sit there and I try, but I just can't relate to it.
When I walk in and hear blaring techno or bass heavy electronic or even some decent rock at high volume, I'll crack open a bottle of champagne, but ONLY if the system is capable of it. I have my doubts...:D
There are long spells of classical, piano and chamber music, but mainly because it is how he wants to display how natural the system is, but if you stick around I have often heard more processed stuff, including Bugge Wesseltoft and Massive Attack, as shown here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxXH1LiARLV/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
It's a shame you didn't hear it like that this year, as the Basso seemed to me to be just the fruity side of neutral and was very entertaining.
Thank you for this thread, excellent mate! Much appreciated.. No thoughts about the Wilson Benesch Turntable that Michael Fremer posted about on his YouTube channel? Interesting idea, but probably mega bucks! :)
@sjs
I don't think he should change his game as a result of what I think and I must say his wife has been friendly and informative in past years. He knows his market space better than I do.
But sticking around waiting for that rare excusrion into more varied genres is impossible when there's loads of other good rooms. At least, for me.
@glenann
WB turntable no comment. I watched the Fremer video too. I've decided I actually like him quite a bit, even though I am not an analogue man.
Thanks for the thread remarks. I have been a bit lazy this year and could have said a lot more. Can only apologise for that.
I have been a bit lazy this year and could have said a lot more. Can only apologise for that.
Well I've enjoyed it Justin. Thanks for the time and effort you *have* taken.
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