View Full Version : The New Adventures of the ElectroNumpty DCB1
Hi All
Here we go again :mental: :D
Well so, when I decided to build the DCB1 I bought 2 boards from Mr Teabag over at DIY audio. My original intention was to try and build a pre without spending too much in the way of fancy parts just to see if I could get something working and then maybe use the 2nd board to make one with some fancy parts to make it sound better. Anyway It's all worked better than I expected ;) , especially with some help along the way from the usual suspects , thanks guys! :)
Anyway, the build is great and while I didn't spend silly money on it , it has good quality parts , case , sockets, wiring and transformer which give a good basis for better electronics I think.
Original build thread below for ref, I thought it might be better to start a new one to list my improvements/experiments/disasters :D:D (in no particular order!!)
https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?61493-Christmas-is-coming-and-the-DCB1-s-getting-fat
The sound has settled down now as the component have bedded in and this means that I'll be able to gauge the effect of any changes more accurately.
After considering things I decided that it might be more fun to make changes to the original on a step by step basis and see what effect they had rather than going for a big bang approach of slotting in a whole new board. Also some of the parts are now getting scarce and expensive - matched quads of JFETS in particular, which makes stuffing an entirely new board a bit more problematic , not to say expensive:stalks:
The other advantage of staging the upgrades is that it spreads the cost :) over the course of a few months. I intend to live with each one for a month or so before another change so that I can see if it was worth it or not .
So my order of battle is as follows -
1. Swap the cheap stepped attenuator for an AD Acoustics part. The original sounds fine for the £23 it cost and does a job, but feels very clunky to use - think Soviet industrial quality :acid:
2. Swap in new Mundorf power caps for the power supply. I am curious to see what difference this will make (if any) as most focus in on the caps and resisters for bang/ buck. But I sort of subscribe to the theory (completely unscientifically :scratch: ) that everything in the chain matters and can make a difference. So only 1 way to test this out!!:doh::lol:
3. Try some different signal caps instead of the Wimas, have got a couple of interesting options here so we'll see what happens with that!:eek:
4. Try out some Audio Note resisters in the bang per buck part of the board, non magnetic tantalums.
5. Any other numpty randomness I can think of. :eek::eek:
On to part 1.....:)
Before !
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190504/0aa6cf190382b0613d27d66be1430e02.jpg
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During,I had to turn the holding bracket around so that I had an extra centimetre to fit the attenuater. You can see the difference in size between the 2 for a comparison.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190504/959b332379b144b2f844110dda61f6ff.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190504/4d285e951b5653df018907527da710df.jpg
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After!
Pretty straightforward job, luckily!:D
[emoji16]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190504/2a42f6f35ccef22c57fe7372259e267f.jpg
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Bigman80
04-05-2019, 22:34
After!
Pretty straightforward job, luckily!:D
[emoji16]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190504/2a42f6f35ccef22c57fe7372259e267f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190504/f5b9271cf443dd1f657985ff4d50a5d0.jpg
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Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkNice!
Thanks, was a bit of a squeeze but turning the bracket helped.
Sounds effing great too!:)
Bigman80
04-05-2019, 22:38
Sounds effing great too!:)Haha yep! Don't they!!!
Hi Andy
I swapped out my Nichicon power caps from 4700uf and replaced them with Nichicon 10000uf, the result was faster tighter bass and a lift in the overall dynamics.
I also replaced the 8 resistors around the realay to Audionote, the result was better focus, sweeter topend.
Tried it with a previous build and didn't like it
Good look with your changes.
Steve..
That is some real professional looking work! Your wire routing is nice and neat, connections look clean. Most impressive, I wish I could hear it.
And from your outline I think you are on the right path to better sound. So nice to have something to be proud of, when someone comments how great it sounds you can tell them you built it! How cool is that?
Russell
Great pictures EN! Any chance of some flowery waffle about the differences in sound after changing each component?
I think you should notice a change when you repace the Wima capacitors for something more exotic. I can recommend Mundorf Supreme but they are massive so difficult to fit in easily.
I really enjoy threads like this :popcorn:
Firebottle
05-05-2019, 07:51
Small point, your point 3 - they aren't signal caps they are bypass caps for the regulators.
Great pics.
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 09:00
Great pictures EN! Any chance of some flowery waffle about the differences in sound after changing each component?
I think you should notice a change when you repace the Wima capacitors for something more exotic. I can recommend Mundorf Supreme but they are massive so difficult to fit in easily.
I really enjoy threads like this :popcorn:Input Obbligato Gold's in and would highly recommend those.
I really should stop looking at brilliant threads like this as it increases the danger of asking one of you builders to make me a DCB1. :cool:
Small point, your point 3 - they aren't signal caps they are bypass caps for the regulators.
Great pics.
Ah, of course, the DC part of the name refers to direct coupled so probably not as big of a change likely then compared to signal capacitors.
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 10:01
I really should stop looking at brilliant threads like this as it increases the danger of asking one of you builders to make me a DCB1. :cool:You need one! They are really great
Light Dependant Resistor
05-05-2019, 11:56
I really should stop looking at brilliant threads like this as it increases the danger of asking one of you builders to make me a DCB1. :cool:
Hi Edward
Yes you could dispense with the switch and attenuator, and instead fit your LDR boards, or better get me to make you another set.
Hi Andy
I swapped out my Nichicon power caps from 4700uf and replaced them with Nichicon 10000uf, the result was faster tighter bass and a lift in the overall dynamics.
I also replaced the 8 resistors around the realay to Audionote, the result was better focus, sweeter topend.
Tried it with a previous build and didn't like it
Good look with your changes.
Steve..
Thanks Steve, I read that better power caps should give a better bass response so that mirrors your findings. Planning to use the same capacitance 4700uf but better components so will see.:)
That is some real professional looking work! Your wire routing is nice and neat, connections look clean. Most impressive, I wish I could hear it.
And from your outline I think you are on the right path to better sound. So nice to have something to be proud of, when someone comments how great it sounds you can tell them you built it! How cool is that?
Russell
Thanks that's very kind, and yes it is cool!!
[QUOTE=JohnJo;1084964]Great pictures EN! Any chance of some flowery waffle about the differences in sound after changing each component?/QUOTE]
Not sure I'm up to "flowery waffle" :D But I intend to add some "pithy observations" about each change once they have bedded in yes!:thumbsup:
Small point, your point 3 - they aren't signal caps they are bypass caps for the regulators.
Great pics.
Thanks for the correction! :)
Just underlining my Electronumpty credentials like! ;) :D
[QUOTE=JohnJo;1084964]Great pictures EN! Any chance of some flowery waffle about the differences in sound after changing each component?/QUOTE]
Not sure I'm up to "flowery waffle" :D But I intend to add some "pithy observations" about each change once they have bedded in yes!:thumbsup:
Pithy’s good.
You need one! They are really great
Hi Edward
Yes you could dispense with the switch and attenuator, and instead fit your LDR boards, or better get me to make you another set.
I really need to have a bake off between the DCB1 and the LDR to establish the differences. I'm very pleased with the revamped LDR I have, Lawrence mentioned that he has a DCB1 so maybe soon he and I can have a bake off.
Well done Andy for keep pushing the envelope on your DCB1 build. Very inspiring.
Thanks Edward
If you ever in south east London you're welcome to have a listen. :)
OK some early pithy observations:)
Been listening to this quite a lot over the last couple of days. the difference in quality was immediately noticeable - more detail , sweeter treble with a longer decay and also more and deeper bass. The last is good as 1 slight niggle I had was that the previous iteration of the DCB1 did not do bass lower down the register too well. If anything it sounded (very, very slightly) lean. However this is obviously due to the budget attenuator that was previously fitted, as it is there now :thumbsup: which is great seeing as I listen to a lot of rock and reggae.
The sound has "rounded off" slightly after a bit of use but with no loss of detail and the decay on the higher notes is longer than it was before fitting. I would say that overall (so far) it has introduced an element of clarity but without losing any musicality which is really nice.
Especially as the DCB1 was not lacking in clarity before, it makes me wonder how far you can take this thing without mucking about with the current available to it again (which I won't be doing, happy at 700-800 ma or so).
It's also a pleasure to use as the action is smoother and also it has 41 steps rather than the 23 the other switch had. At £140 odd it's not cheap, was it worth it from my POV - absolutely!!
Its showing some real drive and dynamics as well, again no that it was lacking before. :smoking:
I'll add some more thoughts later down the line when played in a bit but all good so far.
Bigman80
05-05-2019, 21:44
OK some early pithy observations:)
Been listening to this quite a lot over the last couple of days. the difference in quality was immediately noticeable - more detail , sweeter treble with a longer decay and also more and deeper bass. The last is good as 1 slight niggle I had was that the previous iteration of the DCB1 did not do bass lower down the register too well. If anything it sounded (very, very slightly) lean. However this is obviously due to the budget attenuator that was previously fitted, as it is there now [emoji106] which is great seeing as I listen to a lot of rock and reggae.
The sound has "rounded off" slightly after a bit of use but with no loss of detail and the decay on the higher notes is longer than it was before fitting. I would say that overall (so far) it has introduced an element of clarity but without losing any musicality which is really nice.
Especially as the DCB1 was not lacking in clarity before, it makes me wonder how far you can take this thing without mucking about with the current available to it again (which I won't be doing, happy at 700-800 ma or so).
It's also a pleasure to use as the action is smoother and also it has 41 steps rather than the 23 the other switch had. At £140 odd it's not cheap, was it worth it from my POV - absolutely!!
Its showing some real drive and dynamics as well, again no that it was lacking before. :smoking:
I'll add some more thoughts later down the line when played in a bit but all good so far.When you get to 1.2A it's all about finesse. It doesn't change its lack of any imposing colour or character, Instead, you get refinement and intricacies that were there before, just in less space. Vocals hang In mid air and it's all about the miniscule details that give the soundstage its scope.
I understand the reluctance to tinker more, but I'd 100% recommend Audio Note Tantalum resistors and getting to 1.2A.
When you get to 1.2A it's all about finesse. It doesn't change its lack of any imposing colour or character, Instead, you get refinement and intricacies that were there before, just in less space. Vocals hang In mid air and it's all about the miniscule details that give the soundstage its scope.
I understand the reluctance to tinker more, but I'd 100% recommend Audio Note Tantalum resistors and getting to 1.2A.Well thats an intriguing description, [emoji846]. I have the Tantalums already as for the rest it's not on my list but never say never ! lol
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Bigman80
05-05-2019, 22:06
Well thats an intriguing description, [emoji846]. I have the Tantalums already as for the rest it's not on my list but never say never ! lol
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Got the power supply caps , Mundorfs about £40 and 2 Audio note Kaseis at about £4 each so thought why not.
Have to find time to fit them though lol . Might be able to today but a lot of other things lined up to thwart me!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190519/69c1e48708fe567edc394826a311c1cd.jpg
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Bigman80
19-05-2019, 09:09
Got the power supply caps , Mundorfs about £40 and 2 Audio note Kaseis at about £4 each so thought why not.
Have to find time to fit them though lol . Might be able to today but a lot of other things lined up to thwart me!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190519/69c1e48708fe567edc394826a311c1cd.jpg
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkNice! I love a bit of bling lol
Decided to knock up some speaker cable, latest goodies from Valab Rhodium plated plugs and spades. They look nice and feel subtantial for the prisce , about £24 for 4. Just waiting for the cable now . https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190519/0d82531c50b4f68c8d808565ccef8c92.jpg
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Well while the Government decided to eat itself today I did something far more important and changed the power caps on the pre . Photos showing old and new caps with heart surgery on the board. The new Mundorfs are shorter but a bit fatter than the Nichicons. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/0abdc63512f0b4fb9cd11697a434d6b2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/6098f604f6c97230ea724f7aaec2b24b.jpg
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Fitted new bling ! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/c4c45e51d24ca14c899d4c7be4cee5eb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/74f338ae0557c5c96b58569b2972dbc6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/83ec38fe9b3a57c7d22212565703e7c7.jpg
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Back in place and working to my relief! [emoji106][emoji106][emoji846]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190524/1d010580e40adf9ce0bf03d45b8d6955.jpg
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Bigman80
24-05-2019, 19:42
Well done mate. Any change to the sound?
gimme chance cooking dinner! lol [emoji846]
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Will have a listen later tonight and report back 1st impressions!
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Hi Oliver
Dinner cooked and scoffed lol :D so some very initial observations.
Ok so big caveat with these comments here of only 1 album played (Zep 4) but some notable difference already which I think is worth commenting on and not what I expected either.
At first the bass was recessed and slightly woolly at the start of the album sounding "far away" , but there was still the usual amount of detail and treble seemed to have better timbre and presence for want of a better word. The recessed bass made it seem quieter than usual so I had to turn the volume up a few notches (say from the usual 1-2 o'clock to about 4-5!) to get the usual feel.
Things progressed however and by the end of the 1st side there was more bass presence and volume with it so something is opening up.
The thing I noticed by the end of the 2nd side (and as an early comparison to the original power cap set up) was the change in tonality of the music. It sounds more "musical" for want of a better word :scratch:, the detail and transparency is all still there in spades but the tone of it seems more natural. Before the change I was starting to feel the DCB1 was sounding almost slightly dry and too analytical, this was only a vague feeling, it was not at all unpleasant to listen to and I still loved it but I just needed "something" a bit different with it. It was a vague and intangible feeling, but I think I know what now, even at this very early comparative stage.
Can't say that I expected such an immediate impact with this.
So 1 impressions :) but I think I'm going to like this change! More when I have had a more involved listen.
Cheers Andy
Bigman80
25-05-2019, 07:32
Hi Oliver
Dinner cooked and scoffed lol :D so some very initial observations.
Ok so big caveat with these comments here of only 1 album played (Zep 4) but some notable difference already which I think is worth commenting on and not what I expected either.
At first the bass was recessed and slightly woolly at the start of the album sounding "far away" , but there was still the usual amount of detail and treble seemed to have better timbre and presence for want of a better word. The recessed bass made it seem quieter than usual so I had to turn the volume up a few notches (say from the usual 1-2 o'clock to about 4-5!) to get the usual feel.
Things progressed however and by the end of the 1st side there was more bass presence and volume with it so something is opening up.
The thing I noticed by the end of the 2nd side (and as an early comparison to the original power cap set up) was the change in tonality of the music. It sounds more "musical" for want of a better word :scratch:, the detail and transparency is all still there in spades but the tone of it seems more natural. Before the change I was starting to feel the DCB1 was sounding almost slightly dry and too analytical, this was only a vague feeling, it was not at all unpleasant to listen to and I still loved it but I just needed "something" a bit different with it. It was a vague and intangible feeling, but I think I know what now, even at this very early comparative stage.
Can't say that I expected such an immediate impact with this.
So 1 impressions :) but I think I'm going to like this change! More when I have had a more involved listen.
Cheers AndyCool! I usually find whenever Mundirf caps are added that they bring a smoothness, which I think is kind of what your describing?
Anyhoo, you're happy and that's all that matters. Well done
Thanks , yes smoothness is definitely a part of it. Its not boring or with a loss of detail though. I'll let them bed in some more before commenting again though.
As an aside I notice the case is warmer when playing than it was with the Nicicons fitted , not massively so but a good couple of degrees so something else is going on there lol.
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Bigman80
25-05-2019, 10:12
Thanks , yes smoothness is definitely a part of it. Its not boring or with a loss of detail though. I'll let them bed in some more before commenting again though.
As an aside I notice the case is warmer when playing than it was with the Nicicons fitted , not massively so but a good couple of degrees so something else is going on there lol.
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkLarger capacitor value?
Same 4700uf but 40v rating . didn't want to muck about with values really and also gives a proper like for like component comparison to evaluate.
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Bigman80
25-05-2019, 11:40
Same 4700uf but 40v rating . didn't want to muck about with values really and also gives a proper like for like component comparison to evaluate.
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkCool. It's on my to do list to change a couple of bits on my DCB1.
Well early days but i didnt expect it to make as much difference as it has so far. also the small Kaseis were added at the same time so.I don't know how much is down to them . But for £50 it's worth a squirt I reckon. [emoji846]
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Bigman80
25-05-2019, 16:39
Well early days but i didnt expect it to make as much difference as it has so far. also the small Kaseis were added at the same time so.I don't know how much is down to them . But for £50 it's worth a squirt I reckon. [emoji846]
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkI think so.
Swap those red wima for obligatto and you'll be very surprised what a couple of capacitors can do
I have a couple of things try for those,:) once all this has settled down.
Will reveal after these have been properly run in as my next mod ;)
Ok so between times I've got about 20-30 hrs on these caps and they have settled down nicely but I'm sure there's more to go before they are fully bedded in.
They have certainly made a difference to the sound so far, there is no loss of detail but the notes and rhythm seem to last slightly longer with slightly more decay time. This means that (to my ears anyhow) the music seems more whole and synergistic "musical" I would say and less compartmentalised. I didn't think it was before when listening but the fact I think so now shows the difference these have made so far as a contrast:).
There is, it seems an increase in some detail also, the best way I can describe it is that the amp is somehow quieter which lets more detail and better timbre of notes through. I can only compare it to turntable phrases like more "inky blackness" etc which are a bit poncey as a phrase but do describe what I am hearing :scratch:
Anyhow I like it a lot, more when I have really bedded these in :cool:
Bigman80
31-05-2019, 21:30
Ok so between times I've got about 20-30 hrs on these caps and they have settled down nicely but I'm sure there's more to go before they are fully bedded in.
They have certainly made a difference to the sound so far, there is no loss of detail but the notes and rhythm seem to last slightly longer with slightly more decay time. This means that (to my ears anyhow) the music seems more whole and synergistic "musical" I would say and less compartmentalised. I didn't think it was before when listening but the fact I think so now shows the difference these have made so far as a contrast:).
There is, it seems an increase in some detail also, the best way I can describe it is that the amp is somehow quieter which lets more detail and better timbre of notes through. I can only compare it to turntable phrases like more "inky blackness" etc which are a bit poncey as a phrase but do describe what I am hearing :scratch:
Anyhow I like it a lot, more when I have really bedded these in :cool:Great stuff. Capacitors can take ages to settle down. My Mundorfs only just opened up recently. Literally 2 days before I loaned my phonostage out with them in lol.
It's great isn't it, playing with caps etc. Isn't it.
Yeah so far anyway! lol. the by pass caps next . in a few weeks though.
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Well noticed a low hissing and fluttering sound coming from the right channel last night. After a brief panic attack :stalks: manged to trace it to a noisy valve on the FB mono power amp. Swapped them out and it's fine , shame as its a nice gold pin telefunken. Still replaced with a pair of Mullards. so a bit of enforced valve rolling :eek: :)
Firebottle
02-06-2019, 16:23
You might find that if you change back again it will be fine. The valve sockets sometimes need a re-insertion (ooh er missus) to make sure of a good contact.
Thanks Alan will try again as you suggest. BTW one of the Mullards "flares" briefly when turned on initially but settles down ok and plays fine, is this something to be concerned about?
Firebottle
02-06-2019, 17:22
No nothing to be concerned about, it is just the low temperature surge of the heater element.
Thanks Alan thats good to know.
cheers
Some mystery caps from Valab, metalised polyprop at £3 a shot so I thought Id try them out sometime instead of the Wimas. no idea of orientation if needed though lol. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190605/fdcb50d18c5db5f42e43f0b41562a82c.jpg
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Bigman80
05-06-2019, 16:49
Some mystery caps from Valab, metalised polyprop at £3 a shot so I thought Id try them out sometime instead of the Wimas. no idea of orientation if needed though lol. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190605/fdcb50d18c5db5f42e43f0b41562a82c.jpg
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkI don't think they are poled? Is that the right word?
Bung them in, they'll be fine.
What tolerance are they?
I don't think they are poled? Is that the right word?
Bung them in, they'll be fine.
What tolerance are they?
Bipolar? Will chuck em in Not a clue about tolerance, but they add fantastical good clear air sound ...or something .apparently
:)
I'll put them in in the next couple of weeks when I have some time.
I have some tasty alternatives on standby once I've had a listen to them . :eyebrows:
Decided to do this today so Wimas outhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190609/361f6057e5a1cfe74ff7442115feb163.jpg
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Valab UCC caps in ! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190609/567f0b435c1a4fecacce727140563747.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190609/1f2712144f0d0e117a10980757e2e0a5.jpg
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All working again , the eagle eyed will note the Tanalum resistors are in to . I put this down to impatience! lol Though might as well do these to. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190609/e5afa70d79c090e0ae167734a19a1275.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190609/475c4fde0de0a1bdee2c7cb069e8fd5a.jpg
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Bigman80
09-06-2019, 15:07
You've had nearly an hour with it and still no report on SQ changes????
Shame on You lol
[emoji1787][emoji1787]
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watching telly .... [emoji39]
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Bigman80
09-06-2019, 15:27
watching telly .... [emoji39]
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkIt's an outrage [emoji1787]
Bluebeat13
09-06-2019, 19:32
Not polarity sensitive would be the correct term.
Not polarity sensitive would be the correct term.
Great thanks , will remember that. Another nail in the coffin of numptyness! :D
Ok have been listening for about 4 hours and haven't figured out how to describe it yet. All I can say at the moment is more of everything and very musical with it �� Certainly conveys emotion , I was listening to Kate Bushs Directors Cut and there were a couple of wtf moments with her voice and the arrangements in there. Still with detail and bass etc, but with something intangible there too. Will have to see how it develops as its still early days!
:cool:
Bigman80
09-06-2019, 21:35
Time will tell.
Love a bit of cap rolling as I call it
Yeah although some of this is down to the tantalums being added today aswell . No idea how much of an effect the caps are having but its not bad lol
Not strictly DCB1 territory but today I turned this https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190616/0e7528262bb2695a3fc7d26e66f40e47.jpg
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into these [emoji846] Speaker cable to go !https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190616/96b8ce052088b6415aa47d1632821fa4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190616/ac33fb76d8998a5339e03ebef85873ed.jpg
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Bigman80
16-06-2019, 15:27
Andy,
They look fantastic. I am really pleased that you've gone from electronumpty to preamp builder and now made your own cables.
Well done sir!
Bigman80
16-06-2019, 15:29
Stick a set of these On or similar obviously and hide that join.
10Pcs Carbon Fiber Pants Boot Y Splitter 1 To 2 Speaker Audio Cable Wire Pant https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N2NJ36Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_BaMbDb0BSVTJX
Thanks , will have a look at the splitters!
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Did the hard thing first (pre amp) and the cables after lol. Typical arse about faceness [emoji23] Used the last of my Valab furukawa hook up cable for them . one side down 1 run to go.
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Oh for anyone wondering the yellow red and black thin wires are for the sub woofer hook up. [emoji846]
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Ok An update so far :)
*
This is sounding very sweet, rhythmic* bass , natural sounding treble and a very clean presentation. it sounds great through the FB monos and Celestions. But really shows what it is capable of through my Hifiman headphones which are more detailed in presentation than my speakers. So really happy with thing as they have progressed so far :)
However in my aimless wandering through the forum I have discovered deep in the darkest recesses of AOS a thread titled :stalks: "Foo Caps", after perusing said thread I had a flurry of email between myself and Simon of SJS.
This resulted in my purchasing 2 of the fooest caps known to man... :eyebrows: At under half price of retail (used) it seemed worth a try so I have a couple of these to fit!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190714/d53b169e2083fa23db5b601f4fdb9176.jpg
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Bigman80
14-07-2019, 18:23
Ok An update so far :)
*
This is sounding very sweet, rhythmic* bass , natural sounding treble and a very clean presentation. it sounds great through the FB monos and Celestions. But really shows what it is capable of through my Hifiman headphones which are more detailed in presentation than my speakers. So really happy with thing as they have progressed so far :)
However in my aimless wandering through the forum I have discovered deep in the darkest recesses of AOS a thread titled :stalks: "Foo Caps", after perusing said thread I had a flurry of email between myself and Simon of SJS.
This resulted in my purchasing 2 of the fooest caps known to man... :eyebrows: At under half price of retail (used) it seemed worth a try so I have a couple of these to fit!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190714/d53b169e2083fa23db5b601f4fdb9176.jpg
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkYou'll have to keep us updated. Foo or not, swapping capacitors Is something I have had great results from.
You'll have to keep us updated. Foo or not, swapping capacitors Is something I have had great results from.
Course I will ;), trying to manage my expectations though - unsuccessfully so far :D
They are very heavy for their size though, feel quality. Everything I have read about them says they are very detailed in presentation but with slightly less bass. So I'll see.
Been busy today with these , as they are used the leads have been cut and are a bit short. So I had solder on some wire extensions to fit them on the board [emoji41]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190716/83b9fca781da9bcbadf52df5e7355e44.jpg
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Fitted on , easily done no issues [emoji846]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190716/d4a7569f083c85dc50ae136a31fb550d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190716/c28c38fc4093e41948b0abedb71f9c96.jpg
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Board back in and working! Yay! [emoji41]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190716/5e29629e296f995667d6a68d97814572.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190716/36b59cdaa6e2127e687d9e669480ec5a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190716/e4f06800897649d6180e315d0ea17459.jpg
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Bigman80
16-07-2019, 17:34
You're getting into this aren't you lol
Great to see. Well done.
You're getting into this aren't you lol
Great to see. Well done. yeah , that'll be it for a while now though as I have a room decorate lol. Will enjoy this for a couple of months now unmolested! Btw 1st impressions- a massive improvement in soundstage, wider and deeper. Didn't expect that at all.
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Bigman80
16-07-2019, 17:53
yeah , that'll be it for a while now though as I have a room decorate lol. Will enjoy this for a couple of months now unmolested! Btw 1st impressions- a massive improvement in soundstage, wider and deeper. Didn't expect that at all.
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkLol, good caps will do that.
Ok so a round up now of the changes , I have considered further turboing to 1.2 ma but am happy where I am so will leave it for the meantime and enjoy it :). Sounds great and a summery of the changes is below :)
All changes were made at the original spec values for the components so it was a straight swap with better quality parts to evaluate them. :scratch:
1) power caps changed to Mundorf -
Quieter background, "blacker", certainly noticeable. Smoother and deeper bass which is also more tuneful and better defined :) Not a subtle change overall. Cost - about £40
2) Valab MKP bypass caps -
Bought these on impulse really at the price couldn't not! Metallised polys.
Clearer and more detailed , nice sound and really good value at £3 each! A no brainer :mental: if you are on a budget as a replacement for the Wimas.
3) Audio note tantalum resisters - non magnetic
Take a while to run in but have a treble effect which is nice and smooth, in comparison the Vishay's had a slight glare and harshness which has gone now. About £60 for 8 so not too cheap.
4) Teflon V Caps by pass caps.
Immediately noticed a massive shift in the sound stage , wider , deeper, everything in comparison to what went before. I was really surprised with this and took a bit of getting used to, but I like it.
The detail is clearer, very defined and "hifi" like so may not be to everyone's taste but, again, I like it.
Apparently they take a long time to run in , I bought them second hand (80 quid) so have no idea how much use they have had. Last week I noticed a change in the sound as it became smoother and slightly less defined but with the same amount of detail etc . This sounds contrary but is the only way I can describe it, so maybe they have reached their sweet spot now and it's good :D. about £130 new so not cheap.
There you go, I hope anyone reading and thinking about a DCB1 build/upgrade now has an idea of what changes might affect the sound and that anybody else has enjoyed the thread.;)
I would say the biggest bang for buck would be the Valab caps at £6 a pair, next would be the power cap upgrade , these really made a big difference.
Cheers all!
PS I seem to be embroiled in a phono stage affair now!:eek:
Bigman80
25-08-2019, 22:58
Addictive isn't it!
Yep, tantalum are suited to my ears too. Love the effect they had.
I'll try some new caps where you put the mundorf but they won't be mundorf. I'm no longer a fan.
Obbligato in the Valab position for me but agree that £3 per cap is a great price and I dont doubt you. I like Valab stuff.
Well done Andy.
Addictive isn't it!
Yep, tantalum are suited to my ears too. Love the effect they had.
I'll try some new caps where you put the mundorf but they won't be mundorf. I'm no longer a fan.
Obbligato in the Valab position for me but agree that £3 per cap is a great price and I dont doubt you. I like Valab stuff.
Well done Andy.Thanks
Curious as to why you don't like Mundorfs now and what you will use instead?
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Bigman80
25-08-2019, 23:37
Thanks
Curious as to why you don't like Mundorfs now and what you will use instead?
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkI have used them a few times and always ended up taking them off.
IMHO, they are too smooth and they seem to rob the LF of some bass detail. It's not always immediately obvious but I seemed to notice it more and more as time goes on.
That's happened in everything I've used them in. The Jolida, The OTP, the BigBottle
I'm not saying they are bad, far from it but i can't live with them long term.
Alternatives, I haven't really delved too hard into what's out there but I had success, in terms of Improvment, to my ears using the Kaisei from AN
They have recently also been described as too smooth and I think that could be true which is why I ended up looking into the 686 amplifier.
Macca and I are going to fit some bog standard caps in his Krell and see if his suspicion is right. I think it could be.
Ah ok thanks , haven't noticed that myself (yet). I did look at Kaiseis but it would have cost £160 for 4 in the power supply and I couldn't really justify it without knowing what the change would bring.
I did use 2 for the smaller caps though.
Happy with the Mundorfs though so a personal thing I guess, as always! [emoji846]
What I do know is that better power supply caps gave ne less background noise So whatever the brand an upgrade is worth thinking about!
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Bigman80
26-08-2019, 07:13
Ah ok thanks , haven't noticed that myself (yet). I did look at Kaiseis but it would have cost £160 for 4 in the power supply and I couldn't really justify it without knowing what the change would bring.
I did use 2 for the smaller caps though.
Happy with the Mundorfs though so a personal thing I guess, as always! [emoji846]
What I do know is that better power supply caps gave ne less background noise So whatever the brand an upgrade is worth thinking about!
Sent from my SM-G950F using TapatalkYes, they are very expensive and to be honest I wouldn't pay that for 4 capacitors in that position.
If you like them then you made that absolute right choice. It's that simple.
Good on ya, Andy. Great to see the work you put in yield a reward for you in you listening.
Enjoyed following the build too.
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