View Full Version : Beresford Caiman DAC -- two weeks later
magiccarpetride
17-05-2010, 16:57
OK, it's been two weeks since I've received this DAC. It has been on a constant, 24/7 burn-in regime, and I've already reported my impressions, as they've been unfolding.
Two things of general interest here:
1. I have it on good conscience not only from my own personal impressions, but from my wife and a number of friends that the burn-in factor is real, and that ample burn-in time must absolutely be allotted to this component. I know that there are a lot of skeptics who ridicule and pooh-pooh this idea that an electronic component needs to be burnt-in, but these people don't really know what they're talking about.
2. Good DAC is an absolute must if you're at all interested in listening to music the way it was supposed to be heard. Unless you're a vinyl freak who has a kick-ass turntable perfectly set and maintained, you won't be able to really hear music unless you get yourself a good DAC, such as the one we're discussing here.
As far as listening to music the way it was supposed to be heard, I'm in the position now to finally experience that. Today, two weeks after its arrival, this DAC sounds soooo much better, that it's bordering on witchcraft. I am now, for the first time ever, in the position to really hear James Brown "I Feel Good" the way it is really supposed to be heard. Up until now, that song was just a blur smothered in excessive reverb, but man, this morning, it just came to life! James's voice is razor sharp and super clean and eerily present in the mix, what used to sound like a ton of carelessly smothered reverb is now finally revealed as a very tasty and musical embellishment of his voice. The snare drum is now finally gaining its full musical presence, as it now sounds like a real life snare drum. The cymbals are truly sizzling now, with a long decay that rings pleasantly in the ear. And the bass... well, it rocks the house, it rumbles and melodiously grumbles while at the same time presenting its unbelievable muscle. So much so that it makes you levitate in your listening chair.
To cut the long narrative short, two weeks into it the Caiman sounds leaps and bounds better than it sounded one week into it. Gee, I wonder if I've reached the pinnacle of what this little box can deliver, or if there are more pleasant surprises for me in the store? And all that lavished upon me by the mere passage of time:)
The Vinyl Adventure
17-05-2010, 17:06
Has anyone else picked up on the fact that alex seems to like his caiman ...
;)
To cut the long narrative short, two weeks into it the Caiman sounds leaps and bounds better than it sounded one week into it. Gee, I wonder if I've reached the pinnacle of what this little box can deliver, or if there are more pleasant surprises for me in the store? And all that lavished upon me by the mere passage of time:)
Trust me magiccarpetride, it will get even better with time- I've had mine since last October. Something I noticed (maybe others could comment) is when I started listening to it with headphones. I purchased AKG 702s a couple of months ago, and found the sound improved noticably through my speakers. Perhaps using the headphone part of the circuit helps.
magiccarpetride
18-05-2010, 17:13
Trust me magiccarpetride, it will get even better with time- I've had mine since last October. Something I noticed (maybe others could comment) is when I started listening to it with headphones. I purchased AKG 702s a couple of months ago, and found the sound improved noticably through my speakers. Perhaps using the headphone part of the circuit helps.
That's amazing. I wonder if anyone else had noticed the same thing? Maybe I should continue the burn-in with headphones firmly plugged in?
Well, guess what -- this morning, the sound got even better! The thing I'm noticing is that the sound is getting progressively more and more present, rock solid and firm in front of me, while at the same time getting less and less harsh and grating. Even at much louder volumes, it doesn't hurt my ears anymore. And yet, there just seems to be more of everything. The musical content had quadrupled, or so it seems. There just appears to be more instruments, more clearly audible breaths, more ground shaking bass, more oomph! and more airy highs in the mix.
On one of my favorite tracks ("El Picador", Cecilia Barraza), as the music becomes progressively busier and busier, what previously used to sound like a big ball of messy and loud sounds ricocheting off each other, has now all of a sudden emerged as this incredibly elaborate set of arabesque embellishments, combining flutes, guitars, percussion, deep nimbly moving bass. True joy, that finally got revealed to my ears!
The one downer with upgrading is that the burn-in process starts all over again, although not as dramatically as when the Caiman is new. The upside is that it responds so well to upgrades. Mine is still improving.
Watching episode 8 of The Pacific tonight on Sky HD, the battle scenes on Iwo Jima were simply shockingly realistic. I has set the volume high for the romantic interlude before it, and when the scene cut to the battle I nearly jumped to the ceiling. Not just loud, or grunty, but fantastically realistic macro and micro dynamics that make this scene far better, more shocking, than even 'that' opening sequence in Saving Private Ryan. The episode left me silent for a few minutes after it ended. Much of that is due to the Caiman's performance.
The Vinyl Adventure
18-05-2010, 19:06
high volume romantic interlude eh....
The one downer with upgrading is that the burn-in process starts all over again, although not as dramatically as when the Caiman is new. The upside is that it responds so well to upgrades. Mine is still improving.
Watching episode 8 of The Pacific tonight on Sky HD, the battle scenes on Iwo Jima were simply shockingly realistic. I has set the volume high for the romantic interlude before it, and when the scene cut to the battle I nearly jumped to the ceiling. Not just loud, or grunty, but fantastically realistic macro and micro dynamics that make this scene far better, more shocking, than even 'that' opening sequence in Saving Private Ryan. The episode left me silent for a few minutes after it ended. Much of that is due to the Caiman's performance.
Who needs 5, 6, or 7.1 channels when 2.0 done right gets the job done magnificently? My audio setup is also my movie setup:)
CD
magiccarpetride
18-05-2010, 19:24
Who needs 5, 6, or 7.1 channels when 2.0 done right gets the job done magnificently? My audio setup is also my movie setup:)
CD
Same here. The best proof that my system is getting up there, right there with the best the money can buy, is that now, with the Caiman slowly but surely burning in, my dog and my cats constantly react to the sound coming out of my Maggies. Before, they couldn't really be bothered, but now, and increasingly in the past few days, they're getting pretty jumpy. Especially during movie watching times;)
Same here. The best proof that my system is getting up there, right there with the best the money can buy, is that now, with the Caiman slowly but surely burning in, my dog and my cats constantly react to the sound coming out of my Maggies. Before, they couldn't really be bothered, but now, and increasingly in the past few days, they're getting pretty jumpy. Especially during movie watching times;)
Be careful you don't have a movie with cat sounds in it. I could just imagine your cat scratching the life out of your Maggies:lolsign:
CD
Who needs 5, 6, or 7.1 channels when 2.0 done right gets the job done magnificently?
I've been saying that for some time now. My AV friends poo poo the idea, until they hear my system.
dave2010
18-05-2010, 21:39
Hamish
Has anyone else picked up on the fact that alex seems to like his caiman ...
;)Maybe!
I don't disagree though that the Caiman does improve with time.
Why doesn't this happen so obviously with other units though - or if it does, why is it not better known? I took a DACMagic back to the shop because it was merely OK for me. Would it/could it have improved if I'd stuck with it?
I wasn't absolutely sure that the Caiman was better when I first had it, and on some music I suspected that it was actually worse. Now, weeks - nay months on, it sounds clearly better than most systems I've heard.
I don't think the DACMagic would have improved like that - but then I didn't give it a chance.
Of all the components I've ever owned, the Sony SCD-1 SACD player took the longest to burn in and sound good, way more than 200 hours as I remember it. It was worth it, though, and gave the lie to those who gave up and called it average. It was anything but, but you had to be patient.
All electronics take some time to burn in, separate from warm-up time.
magiccarpetride
18-05-2010, 21:48
I don't think the DACMagic would have improved like that - but then I didn't give it a chance.
There seems to be some confusion regarding the actual naming of these DACs. Clearly it is Caiman that should have "Magic" as its suffix, because it is showing us plenty of magic with each passing burn-in day:) Cambridge Audio DAC -- not so much, I'm afraid...
magiccarpetride
18-05-2010, 21:49
All electronics take some time to burn in, separate from warm-up time.
Which begs the question -- why aren't manufacturers burning their components in for us? Wouldn't that minimize the volume of returns?
magiccarpetride
18-05-2010, 21:53
Be careful you don't have a movie with cat sounds in it. I could just imagine your cat scratching the life out of your Maggies:lolsign:
CD
I still remember my trepidation on the first day I bought my Maggies and plopped them in the middle of my living room. We have two extremely opinionated and evil cats, who are destructive beyond belief. I remember telling my wife: "OK, if any of these goddamawful cats of yours even looks in the direction of my Maggies -- that's it! They're going back to the cat pound!"
Amazingly, the cats never ever bothered, not even for a split second, to stop by the Maggies!!! (I'm now convinced they understand English:)
Which begs the question -- why aren't manufacturers burning their components in for us? Wouldn't that minimize the volume of returns?
The cost of keeping stock and powering all that equipment would simply slap another 20% on prices and we'd all complain about it.
magiccarpetride
18-05-2010, 22:35
The cost of keeping stock and powering all that equipment would simply slap another 20% on prices and we'd all complain about it.
Yeah, but how much of a blow do they take due to the prematurely returned products by customers who are not aware/not buying into, or just too impatient to allow the proper burn-in at home?
Yeah, but how much of a blow do they take due to the prematurely returned products by customers who are not aware/not buying into, or just too impatient to allow the proper burn-in at home?
I guess they don't want the overhead. To be fair, some manufacturers (such as Ayre and Pass Labs) do properly mention burn-in in their user manuals.
A lot of people don't believe in it. Another factor is that burn-in, in a fashion, starts all over again when you unplug and move a piece of hi-fi such as a CD player. There's no apparent logical reason for it, but it seems to happen. This warming up and mini-burn-in effect can be very confusing when upgrading internal components etc.
Simon
edit: ok, you have heat and capacitor forming etc. but there's still no proof, it just sounds like this strange stuff is happening!
Ali Tait
20-05-2010, 07:47
Most manufacturers,paticularly makers of more high-end stuff,do burn new kit in at the factory,even if just for a short while.
The Vinyl Adventure
20-05-2010, 09:40
There seems to be some confusion regarding the actual naming of these DACs. Clearly it is Caiman that should have "Magic" as its suffix, because it is showing us plenty of magic with each passing burn-in day:) Cambridge Audio DAC -- not so much, I'm afraid...
It where linn went wrong... If they could spell maybe I wouldn't need to use my caiman with my linn majik... "Caiman" is quite a snappy name though I think ... ....
Anyone seen my coat?
magiccarpetride
20-05-2010, 16:00
A lot of people don't believe in it. Another factor is that burn-in, in a fashion, starts all over again when you unplug and move a piece of hi-fi such as a CD player. There's no apparent logical reason for it, but it seems to happen. This warming up and mini-burn-in effect can be very confusing when upgrading internal components etc.
Simon
edit: ok, you have heat and capacitor forming etc. but there's still no proof, it just sounds like this strange stuff is happening!
People who don't believe it either:
a) haven't actually listened for themselves, or
b) wouldn't recognize quality sound if someone were to staple it on their forehead
All you need is to hear for yourself, and you'll believe it.
Conversely, those 'mini burn-ins' you've mentioned are just an urban myth, because most of us haven't been able to hear any differences.
Again, let your ears be your guide. Stop listening with your eyes and with your intellect.
Conversely, those 'mini burn-ins' you've mentioned are just an urban myth, because most of us haven't been able to hear any differences.
Are you telling me that with you acute hearing that you cannot hear any difference in you kit if you disconnect it from the wall for 2 days as opposed to having had it powered on for several days?
seems a little odd to me???
To give an example,
From a technical point of view, it could well take several hours of connection to the mains for all of the caps inside the equipment to become fully charged and stable. Given that nobody here will disagree that changing the caps in the Beresford DACs 'changes/upgrades' the sound, how is it possible that the sound does not change as the caps charge?
There's a difference between "burn-in" and "warming" process, no ? :scratch:
At least that's how I understand it.
magiccarpetride
24-05-2010, 17:43
Are you telling me that with you acute hearing that you cannot hear any difference in you kit if you disconnect it from the wall for 2 days as opposed to having had it powered on for several days?
seems a little odd to me???
To give an example,
From a technical point of view, it could well take several hours of connection to the mains for all of the caps inside the equipment to become fully charged and stable. Given that nobody here will disagree that changing the caps in the Beresford DACs 'changes/upgrades' the sound, how is it possible that the sound does not change as the caps charge?
No, I was talking about turning it off for a couple of minutes and then back on again. No audible difference whatsoever.
I always thought that capacitors charged up pretty much instantly?
Butuz
I find after a power down, my speakers do take 3 days left powered up for the solid deep bass to get up to speed again. I find this every time I switch on and off hence why I leave the kit on.
Don't get me wrong it is not that the sound is poor on power up it just that it improves a bit especially in the bass region.
When I make a few mods I have to wait to appreciate the changes to the sound fully and unfortunately have forgotten how it sounded before! :brickwall:
Regards
I leave my Chord power amp permanently on for the same reasons.
I always thought that capacitors charged up pretty much instantly?
Butuz
Things take time to stabilize , not just caps but things like bias etc
I've known some single rail based equipment take hours before it comes on song after powering down where as other equipment is much quicker
Peter Galbavy
25-05-2010, 10:35
I always thought that capacitors charged up pretty much instantly?
Only in a world ruled by science.
:ner:
magiccarpetride
25-05-2010, 16:06
Only in a world ruled by science.
:ner:
That's a horrible world. I wouldn't want to live in that world.
steve dixon
26-05-2010, 11:12
does anyone know the output mv of the caimen?
thanks
steve
That's a horrible world. I wouldn't want to live in that world.
Me neither - I couldn't think of anything more depressing!! :acid:
Marco.
Me neither - I couldn't think of anything more depressing!! :acid:
Marco.
:lol::lol:
People who chose amps from their THD figures abuse themselves (and others) about their definition of science.
But their definition is not science, let's not forget about it.
Imho, science is noble like many human activities. No science = no hifi.
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