Help with my bright ( to me ) sounding system

[Shadow Moses]

Hi guys,
I'm looking for a bit of advice regards my system.

I have a problem with it sounding 'lean' and 'bright'.

Don't get me wrong on some recordings it sounds fantastic,it's very detailed, but with the genre I'm mainly into, metal, when I crank it, it sounds tinny and lean. It may be the recordings I don't know.

At the moment my system consists of
Rega rp8, hana sl mc cart
Ad audio step up
Transcendent Sound Phono stage
Firebottle Air power amp
Usher mini dancer 2 speakers

Could it be I have no options for loading?
Any help would be appreciated

[brian2957]

What cables are you using Neil ?

[Shadow Moses]

What cables are you using Neil ?

Brian,
I have one of Oliver's Spotfire cables between Phono stage and pre amp, one of your Klotz mc500 between Phono stage and power amp the others are atlas Integra, do you think changing my cables around could make a difference?
I could have a try tomoz

[Jazid]

Look at the speakers. They hurt my ears when I was comparing them to the AE1 Mk 3 (which I bought and which are known as bright) and to this day I wonder why people like the Usher presentation.
Without changing the speakers you will end up with a bright system.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Shadow Moses]

James,
You could be right, however, I've got a pair of diy eikona 2 tml speakers and it also sounds bright with those, so I don't know, it's doin my head in

[Bigman80]

What cables are you using Neil ?There's no evidence to suggest those cables would sound lean. Having had both (obviously) the Klotz sound fairly meaty so I would rule that out.

The last speakers you had, hurt my ears when I heard them because they were at the ends of my feet lol. I haven't heard the ushers but I have heard the rest of your system and it wasn't lean then, it was pretty well balanced.

Have you got some other speakers to try?

Edit:

I see you have.

Hmm, puzzling.

[Shadow Moses]

There's no evidence to suggest those cables would sound lean. Having had both (obviously) the Klotz sound fairly meaty so I would rule that out.

The last speakers you had, hurt my ears when I heard them because they were at the ends of my feet lol. I haven't heard the ushers but I have heard the rest of your system and it wasn't lean then, it was pretty well balanced.

Have you got some other speakers to try?

Edit:

I see you have.

Hmm, puzzling.

Oliver it was the Ushers you heard if I remember.
Yep it's doin my head in, maybe it's the recordings and the genre im into I don't know.
Low levels it's fine but when I crank it, it sounds like crap

[Bigman80]

Oliver it was the Ushers you heard if I remember.
Yep it's doin my head in, maybe it's the recordings and the genre im into I don't know.
Low levels it's fine but when I crank it, it sounds like crapWas it those massive speakers?

I think, if it was, you are way up against it with those. Great speakers they may be, but they are too big for the space.

However, if you've tried another pair of speakers, and are still unhappy, who knows!

What valves are in your phonostage?

How many hours on the cartridge?

Also, when did it go from being good to bright? Sometimes we put a new bit of kit in and it kills the system once it's burned in.

Are the ushers getting enough watts up em ? I love the FB-Air but those speakers were big. Id wager a great result with the big Krell to power them!

I'm only guessing btw.

[Shadow Moses]

Just the valves that was sent with the kit for the Phono stage
Can't remember of hand what they are but prob the cheapest.
I bought the cartridge last weekend, been breaking it in most of the week, had a Rega Ania before that, was also the same, same lean sounding so don't think it's the cart.
This hobby is bollocks sometimes.
So many variables

[Mikeandvan]

I also have a problem with brightness/stridency, cured partly by 'musical' speakers and amplification. Next step for me is mains conditioner and some minor room treatment.

[Shadow Moses]

I've got a pair of subs I'm gonna have a play around with tomorrow, see how I get on after that.
But room treatment could be something to think about, thanks

[brian2957]

Oliver's correct regarding the interconnects . I would try a heavier copper speaker cable and see if that works .

[struth]

Could be at cart side,

[AJSki2fly]

Just the valves that was sent with the kit for the Phono stage
Can't remember of hand what they are but prob the cheapest.
I bought the cartridge last weekend, been breaking it in most of the week, had a Rega Ania before that, was also the same, same lean sounding so don't think it's the cart.
This hobby is bollocks sometimes.
So many variables

Hi,

Your system as others have said should be good, I haven’t heard Ushers but it could be them as others have said, however you say TT and cartridge is new. I tried out a Hana SL a few weeks ago and is a good cartridge, good bass and smooth mods, and sweet top end, very good VFM. But have you checked that The VTA is set right for it, for most the arm should be parallel to the record. If the back of the arm is up then it will enhance the top and if down will enforce the bass. Some cartridges are tricky to get right and once you hit the sweet spot the sing with detail across the frequency Randy range. Worth checking it might be fine.

[karma67]

as above,start with the basics,set the cartridge up first and then move on from there,1 thing at a time.

[Pigmy Pony]

I've got a pair of subs I'm gonna have a play around with tomorrow, see how I get on after that.
But room treatment could be something to think about, thanks

Plumbing in the subs may well be worth a try Neil, they will give your sound a bit more 'welly' for a given volume setting, so your amp should then be less 'worked'. :)

[Macca]

Could be the Usher speakers, according to HFW they measure flat in room which means they will sound a bit lean. http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/loudspeakers/65-reviews/511-usher-dancer-mini-two.html?start=3 and I'd expect the Jordans to be even leaner.

You've got a Rega and a Lenco deck, does it sound lean with both? Some/most belt drive decks sound a bit thin in the bass but Lencos don't tend to so is the problem there with both decks?


Would help if you have a digital source to compare with so that the variables of the vinyl set up can be bypassed, if it is still lean with the digital then it's not the decks at fault.


I wouldn't piss about with cables until you've eliminated the more likely possibilities. The speakers look like the culprit to me though, especially if the room is a fair size and you have a bit of space about them I'd expect them to sound a bit bright and thin. Don't fall into the trap of blaming the recordings!

[Bigman80]

Oliver's correct regarding the interconnects . I would try a heavier copper speaker cable and see if that works .I can help with that Neil. Could plumb my speaker cables in and see what happens?

[hifinutt]

went to a great bake off which included the ushers . i didnt think they were particualrly bright

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/126765-lv-speakers-and-alternatives-bakeoff-melton-mowbray/?page=9

might be worth playing with some different amps and pre amps perhaps .

[Shadow Moses]

Cheers for the reply guys,
I've added a sub this morn at 50hz that's helped a lot.
Alan Firebottle has kindly offered to come over and have a listen, he's gonna bring a bit of kit with him so hopefully we can pinpoint it

[hifinutt]

thats a great idea . i am using a freya into some firebottle hybrid monoblocks with some tannoys and it sounds delicious . not bright at at all . i am sure he can help in someway with something

[Simon_LDT]

Definitely look at speakers, amp or source first as those will have the most impact on sound. You would be wasting time switching cables as those will only be subtle changes compared to the above (unless the cables are faulty somehow).

[Lurch]

I've been running Usher Dancer 2s for 2 1/2 years (the ones hifinut heard) in a 12 x 14 room (minimal furnishings) and I don't find them bright. Even less so once I changed to AQ Jade solid core SC.
I also ran a Hana SL here until a year ago, and it definitely benefits from careful setup and being fed the recommended 400+ ohms.
As for a sub, damn, these Ushers go deep anyway so am surprised you find they need bass reinforcement.
I currently run mine at 2.3 metres apart ( Centre to centre) 700mm off the side walls and rear of speaker to wall is 900mm. Additionally I run my Ushers without any toe in.
For SC give either a heavy solid core or Van Damme hifi series 6mm a go. With the VD I ended up using home made Odyssey2 jumpers to retain the treble, as 6mm jumpers were too dull.

[fatmarley]

Perhaps there's a dip somewhere in the low frequencies caused by the room? Experimenting with speaker placement may help.

[hifinutt]

thanks lurch

"Additionally I run my Ushers without any toe in. "

yes , and always worth experimenting with toe in as well

[Shadow Moses]

Thanks all.
I have some dire straights on at the mo, 85 db (measure with my phone app) and it does sound sweet.
It's just when the vodka kicks in and the volume starts creeping up it starts to grate especially with the metal I love.
Hopefully Alan can give me a few pointers.
I do like to blast it at the weekends and rock lol

[Shadow Moses]

thanks lurch

"Additionally I run my Ushers without any toe in. "

yes , and always worth experimenting with toe in as well

Yeah no toe in at the mo, but I do have a bare plaster wall behind my listening position. Maybe the room, hopefully find out soon

[Ninanina]

It's just when the vodka kicks in and the volume starts creeping up it starts to grate especially with the metal I love.


Maybe try dropping the Vodka... just saying ...:lol:

:sofa: