The donkey's set up

[crimsondonkey]

I'll have a bit of a tidy up before I post a pic of the full system but for now here is a pic of my new Bergmann Sindre turntable -

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/6/3/63ee2cc0b3aa2a512a96606e362d7e12299d2fa6.jpeg

[Bigman80]

I'll have a bit of a tidy up before I post a pic of the full system but for now here is a pic of my new Bergmann Sindre turntable -

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/6/3/63ee2cc0b3aa2a512a96606e362d7e12299d2fa6.jpegVery elegant!

I love it.

[Bigbird]

Phwoar. Very nice mate [emoji1362] no doubt it sounds as good as it looks too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Barry]

The parallel tracking arm looks interesting. :)

[JohnJo]

Very elegant!

I love it.

+1 that IS nice :)

[southall-1998_mk2]

That turntable looks daft, but in a good way. Does it have a certain sound signature?

S.

[Frazeur1]

Simply beautiful table! Love it!

[crimsondonkey]

That turntable looks daft, but in a good way. Does it have a certain sound signature?

S.

First time I've heard it described as looking daft! Each to their own eh?

Best way to describe the sound is incredibly quiet and noise free, perfect timing, with new micro detail that I've never heard before. It's one of the best TTs I've had the chance to hear, and certainly my final one.

[struth]

yeah, i like that.. got a sophisticated took to it

[hifinutt]

ah wondered what was in that big bergman box on the palette . looks gorgeous

[Opti-cal]

I was looking at my setup last night in some dim orange light and thinking "yeah that looks pretty good" . . . .

then Wayne comes along with something like this :door:

Seriously thought that is one of the nicest I've seen.

Even "err indoors" wouldn't have a hard time assimilating that into our lounge.

[crimsondonkey]

Pic of Pioneer M-Z1a power amps, and Avantgarde Uno Fino horn.

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/f/9/f961c5767892e0ee6edfe2f9db5e883486871ec9.jpeg

[Bigman80]

Pic of Pioneer M-Z1a power amps, and Avantgarde Uno Fino horn.

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/f/9/f961c5767892e0ee6edfe2f9db5e883486871ec9.jpegYou'v e got some lovely gear, mate.

The Pioneers, are they *that* good?

[struth]

rare beasts those

[crimsondonkey]

You've got some lovely gear, mate.

The Pioneers, are they *that* good?

Thanks Ollie.

Erm, yes the Pioneers are that good, they are a phenomenal cost no object design that knock out 60w per channel in class A (so double as room heaters!). Thing is with speakers at 104db they rarely get over 0.3w in my small listening room!

They weren't cheap either in 1980-84 - http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-M-Z1.html

[crimsondonkey]

rare beasts those

Indeed. I've managed to get one of the H-Z1 MC head amps, but now searching for the last piece of the jigsaw, the C-Z1a preamp.

[struth]

Thanks Ollie.

Erm, yes the Pioneers are that good, they are a phenomenal cost no object design that knock out 60w per channel in class A (so double as room heaters!). Thing is with speakers at 104db they rarely get over 0.3w in my small listening room!

They weren't cheap either in 1980-84 - http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-M-Z1.html

yup, about $6k a pair getting on for 40 years ago:eyebrows:

[Bigman80]

Thanks Ollie.

Erm, yes the Pioneers are that good, they are a phenomenal cost no object design that knock out 60w per channel in class A (so double as room heaters!). Thing is with speakers at 104db they rarely get over 0.3w in my small listening room!

They weren't cheap either in 1980-84 - http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-M-Z1.htmlSweet Christmas!!! They are not cheap at all lol

They look fantastic inside.

[ovlov854]

Wow that is some wonderful kit
You must also have a most understanding other half.................!

[hifinutt]

:lol::lol:

[crimsondonkey]

Wow that is some wonderful kit
You must also have a most understanding other half.................!

Thanks.

Why does she need to be understanding?

[p147]

Very, Very nice, and tantalising photos, Can't wait to see a photo of the whole set up.
There must be quite a lot weight on that unit with the amps and t/table.
Congrats and hope you do not have to wait long before you source the C-Z1a preamp.

[Geoff's Delphi]

Very nice indeed. Looks stunning.

[ovlov854]

Thanks.

Why does she need to be understanding?

Exactly :eyebrows::eyebrows:

[crimsondonkey]

Missing link in the vintage high end Pioneer set, the C-Z1 pre amp, has been found, procured, and now sitting in customs :whistle:

[Audio Al]

Wow that is some wonderful kit
You must also have a most understanding other half.................!

Easy answer to that is " Don't have a other half " Works very well for me since 2003 :D

Lovely kit indeed :)

[Firebottle]

Missing link in the vintage high end Pioneer set, the C-Z1 pre amp, has been found, procured, and now sitting in customs :whistle:

Oh wow, fantastic news Wayne, hope to get a listen some time.

[crimsondonkey]

Oh wow, fantastic news Wayne, hope to get a listen some time.

Yes you're very welcome to.

Lets see if it powers up first!

[Macca]

Missing link in the vintage high end Pioneer set, the C-Z1 pre amp, has been found, procured, and now sitting in customs :whistle:

I bet it wasn't easy to find one of those. Do you know how many were made?

[crimsondonkey]

VintageKnob.org reckons Pioneer sold lots of the C-Z1 and the M-Z1 monoblocks in Japan in the 80s, but that’s as much as I know.

[Bigman80]

Missing link in the vintage high end Pioneer set, the C-Z1 pre amp, has been found, procured, and now sitting in customs :whistle:Oh wow!

Pictures of the unboxing? When it gets to you, obviously!

[AJSki2fly]

Wayne, I just read your thread and I have to say the Bergmann does look great, the Danes certainly do nice design, what's more from what I have read it is a very good TT with an extremely good parallel tracker. Very interesting as a parallel tracker and better TT was where I was considering going next, but not for a couple of years, I will certainly keep this is mind for the future. Also the rest of your system looks great and I bet it sound wonderful. Just a little bit green.:D

[crimsondonkey]

Oh wow!

Pictures of the unboxing? When it gets to you, obviously!

People, we are at Defcon 3 (customs charges raised).

[crimsondonkey]

Also the rest of your system looks great and I bet it sound wonderful.

Thanks for your kind words Adrian

[Bigman80]

People, we are at Defcon 3 (customs charges raised).Oh yes!!! Are they bad??

[crimsondonkey]

Oh yes!!! Are they bad??

Dunno yet, tracking just says they’re raised so when status shifts to ‘in delivery depot’ I’ll find out what the damage is.

Unless there’s some kind of miracle I’ll probably be kept waiting till next week to actually get it.

[Bigman80]

Dunno yet, tracking just says they’re raised so when status shifts to ‘in delivery depot’ I’ll find out what the damage is.

Unless there’s some kind of miracle I’ll probably be kept waiting till next week to actually get it.Yes, they don't move quickly do they.

Oh well, just builds the tension!

[mikeyb]

Customs add 3% import tax, then that cost added to the purchase price plus postage then 20% added to that total plus a 'collection' fee on anything over £15 purchase price, think £30 or so if it's a gift.

This can be billed days, weeks after receipt. But at least you can pay it online, although sometimes your need to collect the item at the Depot and pay before they hand it over.

[crimsondonkey]

'Released from customs' :dance:

[Bigman80]

'Released from customs' :dance: Yay!!!!

[crimsondonkey]

Customs add 3% import tax, then that cost added to the purchase price plus postage then 20% added to that total plus a 'collection' fee on anything over £15 purchase price, think £30 or so if it's a gift.

This can be billed days, weeks after receipt. But at least you can pay it online, although sometimes your need to collect the item at the Depot and pay before they hand it over.

Yeah I've had quite a few things from Japan. The re-packers I use usually do a good job on the invoice and last time I paid a very small sum in fees to get the H-Z1 MC head amp, here's hoping for the same again!

[mikeyb]

Just thinking be from Europe so no fees [emoji3526]

[crimsondonkey]

Very few units in that series made it to Europe at the time sadly.

[Floyddroid]

really rather stunning

[crimsondonkey]

Out of customs now and charges raised so I might go pick it up tomorrow.

[Bigman80]

Out of customs now and charges raised so I might go pick it up tomorrow.[emoji3]

[Discopants]

Blimey 60w class A amps putting out 0.3w of sound, must get pretty toasty.

Do you have much room treatment Wayne ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[crimsondonkey]

Blimey 60w class A amps putting out 0.3w of sound, must get pretty toasty.

Do you have much room treatment Wayne ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes it gets warm!

No room treatment required as the Avantgardes have enough adjustment to the bass subs and the horn crossover that you can get them sounding great in almost any room - mine are stuffed into corners for example.

[crimsondonkey]

£139 charge.

[Bigman80]

£139 charge.Ouch

[Macca]

So you are getting it today then?

[crimsondonkey]

At the depot now!

[Macca]

Get your ass down there!

[Bigman80]

We need pics!!!!! Lol

[Macca]

He hasn't even got it yet!

[Bigman80]

He hasn't even got it yet![emoji23][emoji23]

[crimsondonkey]

Tore though the packaging in double time!

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/f/0f9fc1a82c24dc6656b7b1345fd6798c50f678c3.jpeg

[Bigman80]

You tease!!

Show us more lol

[crimsondonkey]

Good news, it’s not in pieces, and it powers up!

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/b/f/bfc332821135ffaf58de0ec571ac4846c7454234.jpeg

[Macca]

It's lovely.

[Primare]

Congratulations, Wayne!
You have a very rare Pioneer kit, made only for Japan market.
From this serie I have only the CD player - P-D1.
Could you post more pictures of your beauties?
ATB,
Ivo

[crimsondonkey]

Have just listened to Innervisions twice in a row with the H-Z1 doing the MC step up into the C-Z1 phono input... let’s just say I’m sat grinning and quite pleased!

I need to do a bit more reorganisation and then I’ll take a few new system photos.

[struth]

great rarity over here im sure. yup, very nice

[Bigman80]

Wowzers!!

That looks awesome.

[crimsondonkey]

I’m quite pleased with it, as I managed to get it off an auction in Japan for half of what one recently went for from one of the English language friendly Japanese hifi dealers.

It sounds just fab, the Graaf 13.5b2 it replaces is no slouch and one of my all time fave preamps, but that is utterly made redundant by this and will be surplus to requirements.

[thingfish]

It's Tall.

[Bigman80]

I’m quite pleased with it, as I managed to get it off an auction in Japan for half of what one recently went for from one of the English language friendly Japanese hifi dealers.

It sounds just fab, the Graaf 13.5b2 it replaces is no slouch and one of my all time fave preamps, but that is utterly made redundant by this and will be surplus to requirements.What auction is that, Wayne ? I know a few guys are starting to get to grips with the yahoo ones.

[crimsondonkey]

Yup it was yahoo auctions, den of fantasy shiny wants and broken dreams!

[Bigman80]

Yup it was yahoo auctions, den of fantasy shiny wants and broken dreams!Ah sweet.

Great result by the sounds of it. Congratulations

[crimsondonkey]

To my ears it’s up there with the very best preamps I’ve heard in my system, including an Allnic which is about 10x what I got the Pioneer for.

[Bigman80]

To my ears it’s up there with the very best preamps I’ve heard in my system, including an Allnic which is about 10x what I got the Pioneer for.Stop it, you've got me looking lol

[Idlewithnodrive]

Looks fab Wayne.

Do they do them in Silver ?

[Mr. C]

Hi Wayne

You snagged a pair of legends there, have heard this pairing on a number of occasions, I suspect you may have possible the only set in the UK or at the very least possible one of!

None I know of are here in the UK that I have come across There is a very special set up in Belgium which belongs to an ex employee of Pioneer Europe, even has a pair of the first Pioneer speaker made as well plus a whole Aladdin's cave of Japanese exotica , the other at Koj-san's in Osaka.

Congrats on acquiring them :) They will bring you many happy hours listening

[paulf-2007]

Thanks Ollie.

Erm, yes the Pioneers are that good, they are a phenomenal cost no object design that knock out 60w per channel in class A (so double as room heaters!). Thing is with speakers at 104db they rarely get over 0.3w in my small listening room!

They weren't cheap either in 1980-84 - http://www.thevintageknob.org/pioneer-M-Z1.html

I assume you have listened to the avantgardes with other amps, the reason I ask is I visited a member on wigwam with avantgarde duo and he used kronzilla valve amps with huge valves, can't remember the output, probably 40w, but they sounded far better with my 2A3 and 300B amps. I wonder if you don't get the best out of the amps at such low output, bit like driving a Ferrari in a 20mph limit every day. Lovely kit though.

[crimsondonkey]

Hi Wayne

You snagged a pair of legends there, have heard this pairing on a number of occasions, I suspect you may have possible the only set in the UK or at the very least possible one of!

None I know of are here in the UK that I have come across There is a very special set up in Belgium which belongs to an ex employee of Pioneer Europe, even has a pair of the first Pioneer speaker made as well plus a whole Aladdin's cave of Japanese exotica , the other at Koj-san's in Osaka.

Congrats on acquiring them :) They will bring you many happy hours listening

Cheers Tony, good to know I’m not the only one who appreciates this fine set of components from Pioneer. It’s clear that at some point they just went for it, and threw everything at producing something esoteric and fine sounding. Love to hear this lot with a classic pair of 2402s.

[crimsondonkey]

I assume you have listened to the avantgardes with other amps, the reason I ask is I visited a member on wigwam with avantgarde duo and he used kronzilla valve amps with huge valves, can't remember the output, probably 40w, but they sounded far better with my 2A3 and 300B amps. I wonder if you don't get the best out of the amps at such low output, bit like driving a Ferrari in a 20mph limit every day. Lovely kit though.

I’ve tried all kinds of amps to be honest, not exhaustive obviously but a variety of approaches. I always go back to class A power, and like Avantgarde themselves, usually to something solid state too. They also sounded fab with Pass Alephs too.

[crimsondonkey]

Some snaps as requested.

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/c/0c8ac4c3e5534580564d4d66a8110dca648609d2.jpeg

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/0/8/083137fcc386a36826970308e3e729e8e34a0da8.jpeg

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/c/f/cfda472049aa4c60ee3b5429d20542637e1ef412.jpeg

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/8/9/89d6df6095e4736c5a4afc0336e6b55cf6d3d556.jpeg

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/5/b/5bae2128c14c7dd7a4f3f91fa686d4e899aa8db3.jpeg

[crimsondonkey]

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/9/2/925f440b8d4f4f1b407af8549c263e635af42fcb.jpeg

[Macca]

Proper looking equipment. Such a shame that high end these days is all silver and gold bling with those nasty blue LEDs.

[Bigman80]

Stunning. You must be really pleased.

[realysm42]

Congratulations, that's an amazing looking system you have there sir. The preamp really adds to the look of it; was it an upgrade over what you had before?

[jandl100]

Great looking system, Wayne, and congrats on getting the full Pioneer set! :thumbsup:

The tt looks much better to me as part of the rig rather than in isolation as in your 1st pics of it, it's a bit too minimalist for me otherwise. I like a few twiddly bits on turntables. :)

[crimsondonkey]

Thanks for all the positive comments guys :)

@realysim42 - its hard to say whether its an improvement or just a bit different yet. I really rate the Graaf pre and what it does. I'll say that the Pioneer pre is very quiet indeed but I need a longer listen.

I will say this though, I didn't scour and search looking for this set just for vintage reasons, the sonic quality is right up there with the very best I've heard, which is maybe no surprise given how eye wateringly pricey these were back in the early 80s.

[Mr. C]

Cheers Tony, good to know I’m not the only one who appreciates this fine set of components from Pioneer. It’s clear that at some point they just went for it, and threw everything at producing something esoteric and fine sounding. Love to hear this lot with a classic pair of 2402s.

They are not as imposing as I first remember them, though that was some 20 years!
Still have three pieces of Pioneer in my current personal system, those Pioneer amps leave some of their DNA in the TAD equipment of today.

[crimsondonkey]

They are not as imposing as I first remember them, though that was some 20 years!


You were probably smaller then so maybe that explains it?! :ner:

[crimsondonkey]

Had a longer listen today and now better able to pick out the differences, even if I'm not entirely sure what's causing them! So, something about the H-Z1 step up into the C-Z1 phono input didn't sound quite as dynamic or wide as it did previously (when it was Valab phono into Graaf into same power amps, or H-Z1 into Valab into Graaf).

Put the Valab back in fed into Aux input of the C-Z1 preamp, set to similar impedance load and it sounds better to my ears, more palpable and dynamic. Scratching head. Wasn't what I expected, although maybe I should as the Valab LCR phono is extremely good.


This configuration also allows me to compare the C-Z1 as a pre directly to the Graaf too using the Valab as a common phono stage.

[jandl100]

Based on my own experience of vintage gear, although at a less prestigious level than you are dealing with, I'd expect the power amps to outclass the preamp.
Preamps have always been more of a challenge in terms of sound quality imo, vintage preamps usually being coloured and less transparent than their partnering power amps.

I don't recall hearing a vintage preamp which was a match for what is quite readily available today.

[crimsondonkey]

Based on my own experience of vintage gear, although at a less prestigious level than you are dealing with, I'd expect the power amps to outclass the preamp.
Preamps have always been more of a challenge in terms of sound quality imo, vintage preamps usually being coloured and less transparent than their partnering power amps.

I don't recall hearing a vintage preamp which was a match for what is quite readily available today.

Interesting, on initial listening with the Valab replacing the Pioneer step up and preamp RIAA conversion, I'd say the preamp is transparent and dynamic so the culprit is likely the RIAA/ phono input.

I'll be switching in the Graaf a bit later to see if I can identify the sonic differences to the C-Z1.

[User211]

Well the transistors for the power amp are available still. £12 for two on eBay LOL.

Nice set up and oddball enough to be cool.;)

[The Black Adder]

Love that system... Looking smashing.

[Jimbo]

Nice looking set up, the retro furniture looks rather good too!

[crimsondonkey]

After some experimentation yesterday I think I’m coming to the conclusion that the new preamp’s MM phono stage might not be much kop. Basically playing through the MC step up into the C-Z1s phono input, I heard a noticeable drop in dynamics, and a slightly wearing sound, so I replaced it entirely with the Valab on MC output straight into the preamp’s AUX input and it was much improved.

Then I switched it so that the H-Z1 head amp is doing the MC step up, into the Valab set for MM output, into the preamps AUX input, thereby just eliminating the preamps MM stage. It sounds as good if not slightly better than the Valab only in MC output setting.

Unless the MM stage is not functioning properly for some reason, I probably wouldn’t use it when the alternative is so noticeably better.
On the plus side the preamp itself does sound very good indeed

[Firebottle]

That's a little disappointing, I can give it a quick check over for you, be interesting to see a waveform through it.

Just looked at a valve Radford pre, that has superb performance, just about to give it a listen.

[crimsondonkey]

That's a little disappointing, I can give it a quick check over for you, be interesting to see a waveform through it.

Just looked at a valve Radford pre, that has superb performance, just about to give it a listen.

Cheers Alan. It does seem rather odd given how good the MC head amp that you've already seen, to not get the MM stage in the preamp right.

[Firebottle]

I'll have a bit of a tidy up before I post a pic of the full system but for now here is a pic of my new Bergmann Sindre turntable -

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/6/3/63ee2cc0b3aa2a512a96606e362d7e12299d2fa6.jpeg

I have now heard this turntable and to borrow from the US of A it is 'freaking' awesome.
So quiet it is like it isn't actually switched on and such a phenomenally clean sound (no tracing distortion) it's superb.

[crimsondonkey]

Thank you Alan, it did sound good in your set up.

Alan also sorted the problem mentioned above with the suspect internal phonostage in the Pioneer preamp. We listened to it last week and agreed it was a bit meh with flabby bass. He replaced the caps in the stage and it’s now much better and closer to what I hoped it might sound like.

Cheers for doing such a great job.

[hornucopia]

Always fancied a //-tracking arm; possibly influenced by a 70s Beogram one?
Seemed logical to replicate how an LP master is cut.

All history now, as I sit listening to lossless iTuned library.

[Lee Henley]

Ive always fancied a Bergmann myself and very nearly brought one last year myself when MAX was selling off their demo unit, in hindsight I wished Id have brought it, oh well maybe some other time

[Barry]

Lovely looking system. Well done! :)

I approve of the use of monoblock power amps located close to the speakers.

[hornucopia]

Based on my own experience of vintage gear, although at a less prestigious level than you are dealing with, I'd expect the power amps to outclass the preamp.
Preamps have always been more of a challenge in terms of sound quality imo, vintage preamps usually being coloured and less transparent than their partnering power amps.

I don't recall hearing a vintage preamp which was a match for what is quite readily available today.

Hafler DH101 (with replaced caps, etc.,) sounds pretty good. Matches my Stereo Coffee (battery op) Pre-which is why I'm selling it (Coffee) soon.

[crimsondonkey]

On the hunt now to find a cartridge that matches well with the low mass Bergmann tonearm, and my own taste and preference. I originally fancied trying a Miyajima but I'm not convinced that they will work on that arm.

Currently trying out a Phasemation PP-300 to get a better idea of the house sound. Based on this I'd be thinking about a PP-1000/2000. Couple of days in and am really impressed with the lovely open sound of the PP-300.

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/7/9/79e9168f969a398e71ff23feef26df63a9c04a4a.jpeg

[Bigman80]

On the hunt now to find a cartridge that matches well with the low mass Bergmann tonearm, and my own taste and preference. I originally fancied trying a Miyajima but I'm not convinced that they will work on that arm.

Currently trying out a Phasemation PP-300 to get a better idea of the house sound. Based on this I'd be thinking about a PP-1000/2000. Couple of days in and am really impressed with the lovely open sound of the PP-300.

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/7/9/79e9168f969a398e71ff23feef26df63a9c04a4a.jpegDeepl y intrigued by their lineup.

Whatever works for you is the right choice.

[crimsondonkey]

Very impressed, have just kept putting one record on after another and it keeps sounding better.

[AJSki2fly]

If you haven't done so already have a chat with Hugo about Phasemation cartridges, he can give you some good advice on the different ones. I did try the PP-300 and was very impressed, but went for the Benz Micro in the end as I got a great deal, if not I would have plumped for the PP-500.

Enjoy you listening.

[Bigman80]

Very impressed, have just kept putting one record on after another and it keeps sounding better.Always a good sign. I love those pieces that glue you to the chair and keep you listening for hours on end. There aren't that many bits that do that.

[crimsondonkey]

If you haven't done so already have a chat with Hugo about Phasemation cartridges, he can give you some good advice on the different ones. I did try the PP-300 and was very impressed, but went for the Benz Micro in the end as I got a great deal, if not I would have plumped for the PP-500.

Enjoy you listening.

This is Hugo's demo cart he has kindly loaned me.

[crimsondonkey]

So, some thoughts on the Phasemation PP-300.

It is in no way an 'entry level' cart despite being the cheapest in the range. I was drawn to Phasemation based on the reported character as being not 'hifi' sounding and that proved to be the case. It effortlessly reproduced music in a very convincing way that seemed natural and balanced to my ears.

Good bits -

* low surface noise

* good tracking

* balanced and even sound reproduction

* performs really well against comparable carts

* natural musical presentation, not 'hifi' in character

No real down sides really, I would not hesitate to recommend this cartridge based on an extended listening that Hugo has enabled me to have with his loan/ demo unit.

[batteredhaggis]

Hi Wayne, long time no see...! Hope you're well fella.

Interesting thread, the Pioneers look very cool. Love the whole set up on your sideboard. Congrats on the Bergmann deck, minimal and just beautiful. I love their aesthetic. I saw the one below at Munich last year with a separate motor unit - looked interesting, I think the guy said it could take four tonearms. Is yours by chance the one Mark had at Scally '16 when he and Jim exhibited? I think he had a Sindre. The plinth is distinctive and reminiscent of a Voyd.

When we last met you had an Ortofon Cadenza Black on your Acoustic Solid deck/AN arm (sounding excellent, though with all your superb brandy a Red might have sounded as good - wait, there was a black Sharpie on your rack)! I guess the Black would be somewhere between the Phasemation PP-300 and PP-500 carts in price. How do you think the Black might compare with Hugo's cart if it's not too much a stretch? I'm still at Cadenza Blue level. Nothing about it I particularly dislike (and it has plenty of life left) but I wonder what the benefits of moving up the chain are. I happen to have another that has very long hours and could be traded in. Having said that, I dealt recently with Hugo myself (same Zavfino arm cable that Tom/Montesquieu uses) and the Phasemation carts caught my eye at the time. Like you, I don't think Miyajima is necessarily going to work well on my arm (SME IV).

26582

[crimsondonkey]

Hiya Jamie, good to hear from you mate. That was a good night at Scalford necking brandy and spinning tunes on Saturday night. Mark's Bergmann is a Magne, and it was seeing it at Scalford '16 that caught my attention and I have been quietly looking for one since then, and now very pleased to have found and bought the Sindre.

I never really got on with the Cadenza Black tbh. It sounded okay but then that particular system had plenty of meat on the bones so it kind of compensated for the Ortofon's rather lean and clinical sound character. I replaced it with a Hana SL which gave nothing away in terms of detail retrieval but sounded so much more natural and balanced, yep it really is that good for about £500! The new ML is the same but with more fluidity and transient response - have a chat with Guy. I would take the ML or the Phasemation PP-300 over a Cadenza Black any day of the week.

Hope that helps.

[batteredhaggis]

Thanks for your great reply, very helpful! I've heard the Hana SL many times and thought it was fab for the money. The ML must be good. I'll watch this space.

[crimsondonkey]

New cart added to the Bergmann-

https://audioabattoir.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/6/0/60d3829b02b8ca0ad6395a96bc29deab27056d6b.jpeg

[Audio Al]

Looks very nice although you need shorter cart mounting bolts ;)

[crimsondonkey]

Yes possibly but there is plenty of clearance.

[batteredhaggis]

Careful now! Nice.. erm.. coils. Whoever gets to glue them on the end of that cantilever must have one of the most hair-raising jobs ever.

This one I've heard on a Kuzma Stogi S 12 VTA on some mad Polish laminated alloy turntable whose name will come back to me. The chap who sold me my SME and who had upgraded to this said it weighed 80kg :eek: It was completely bonkers. Amazing detail from it, presumably down to the cart. As a system, it all sounded a little bland if I'm honest, but I'm not a huge fan of Linn active systems, so that may just be my taste. I think the cart fed an Ulrika phono which was then digitised by a Klimax box of some sort before the Accubarik speakers.

The owner had upgraded to the AT-1000 from a Lyra Delos which I now have, but haven't yet tried. Thinking it's likely a no given your thoughts on the Cadenza Black - Lyra's I've heard have not erred towards the warm and lush.

[crimsondonkey]

This one I've heard on a Kuzma Stogi S 12 VTA on some mad Polish laminated alloy turntable whose name will come back to me. …. I think the cart fed an Ulrika phono which was then digitised by a Klimax box of some sort before the Accubarik speakers.



Sounds dreadful :nono:

[Bigman80]

Sounds dreadful :nono:The AT sounds dreadful?

[crimsondonkey]

The AT sounds dreadful?

No, the AT is truly mindblowing.

The dreadful comment was pointed at - 'I think the cart fed an Ulrika phono which was then digitised by a Klimax box of some sort before the Accubarik speakers'

[Bigman80]

Oh, lmao I was gonna say!

[Firebottle]

I think the cart fed an Ulrika phono which was then digitised by a Klimax box of some sort before the Accubarik speakers.

Funny how you can mis-read something at a glance, I thought the above read '...which was then digested by a Klimax...'
Now there's a thought

:glug: