Dutch and dutch 8cs

[Djdonald]

Recently taken delivery of a pair of these active speakers. Main aim was to de-box but was also intrigued by going digitally active (which seems to be the way forward to me) and ability to do some room correction.
Not the easiest speakers to get going as they have limited connections so feeding them analogue signals at the moment. I intend to feed them a digital signal /stream over ethernet which I think is how they are intended to be used.
Very pleased with the sound so far - excellent bass, great clarity and seemingly loads of headroom.
I'll keep you posted if you're interested....

[YNWaN]

Was it yours that I heard at the recent Wam show?

[PhilofCas]

Was it yours that I heard at the recent Wam show?

(No, they were Knipester’s, he’d just got them, used on his own designed and built stands, very nice indeed!)

[Macca]

Recently taken delivery of a pair of these active speakers. Main aim was to de-box but was also intrigued by going digitally active (which seems to be the way forward to me) and ability to do some room correction.
Not the easiest speakers to get going as they have limited connections so feeding them analogue signals at the moment. I intend to feed them a digital signal /stream over ethernet which I think is how they are intended to be used.
Very pleased with the sound so far - excellent bass, great clarity and seemingly loads of headroom.
I'll keep you posted if you're interested....

Please do, very interesting speakers which I missed hearing at the NW show last year although I think they are there again this year.

[Pigmy Pony]

Please do, very interesting speakers which I missed hearing at the NW show last year although I think they are there again this year.

It was the room done out like a rave club. You wouldn't have got in anyway, they had a strict "no sportswear" door policy.

[Djdonald]

Adventures in Dutch and Dutch

I have had a pair of D&D 8cs for around 4 months now. I have experimented with them quite a bit and can share a few observations for the interested. Please note I am a home audio enthusiast not a pro so is written very much from that perspective.

1) They will only take a true AES digital input signal. I am not in the pro audio industry and tried to feed them a SPDIF signal simply by using passive cables with the appropriate terminations. This did not work (which Dutch&Dutch were not aware of at the time). I came to the conclusion that it is due to the lower voltage of an SPDIF signal not being picked up by the "slave" speaker over the approx 3m distance to daisychain from one speaker to the other via the thru input on the "master" as required for an AES signal. Dutch&Dutch support were very helpful and came up with some solutions.
I have ended up going for an active convertor. I have seen that some are contemplating buying some serious (expensive) kit in order to feed them an AES signal. In my view not necessary- I use an inexpensive broadcast quality SPDIF convertor made by Murraypro suggested by Martin from Vortexbox. I believe he now has a solution where you can feed the speakers AES directly from one of his servers. Martin is a good guy and his gear is great for those that want a single source streaming system. Using this setup there is no need for Roon (and lots of processing aka degradation in sound) so the Roon delay is not an issue for me. Also allows to play other sources such as Qobuz, Spotify, Tidal, Internet radio- a brilliant bit of kit and no need for a streamer. There is no way to play audio over the ethernet input into the speakers at present without Roon (when it becomes available) however, I think because the D&Ds are not UPnP they will not appear as a player on a local area network.

2) Whilst I was getting the digital side of things sorted I used analogue connections from a preamp. If using this solution I would recommend that the speakers are used as intended and connect each one to your local network. This will allow you to set the speaker volume to 0db and use your preamp for volume attenuation if desired. Dutch and Dutch recommend using fixed volume out from the preamp and attenuating the volume in the speakers. This requires you to use their Lanspeaker app which is not as convenient as using a remote but otherwise works well. I thought the sound was best with attenuation in the speaker.

3) Using a digital feed was FAR superior to analogue in my setup (Cyrus StreamXP2Qx used as streamer/DAC/preamp). The D&Ds will only play files up to 96khz at present so don't bother trying to play 192 files.

4) interestingly changing various cables made a difference. The inbuilt DACs are clearly not cable agnostic. I upgraded the power cables and also part of the digital feed which both improved (changed) the sound.

5) Changing the stands made a big change in the sound. I switched to some sturdier Custom Design stands on which the D&Ds are rock solid- much improved bass and separation.

6) I am experimenting with speaker position. Surprisingly I found them quite sensitive to positioning. Even a small change in toe-in made a big difference in imaging (I listen at around 12ft with the speakers 12ft apart and close to the front wall).

7) Am currently also playing around with room correction although I have to say they sound great without.

8) They sound brilliant when setup correctly. I have A-B'd with Kii3s and whilst the Kiis did sound more detailed they also had more of a digital grain at the high freqs. The bass is better on the D&Ds and I think their timbre is more natural. Actually having listened to them for a while the detail is there but it seems less obvious due to more robust lower freqs. Overriding impression is one of unflappable headroom. They do not flatter poor recordings however.
My 2ps worth.

[Macca]

I suppose they use AES as the intended market is going to be mostly professional.

I'm guessing that your room is pretty large if you can have them 12 foot apart? Be interested to know if the room correction makes much of a difference in that situation.

[Pigmy Pony]

And there was me thinking you'd just connect a pre amp, twiddle a couple of knobs for room correction and away you go. Before I would consider these speakers I need to trade in my friends for some brainy ones :(

When I heard them at NW Audio Show last year I thought they sounded fab, clear as a bell with some real slam in the bass - a sound that tops my wish list. Didn't realise the speakers had so much going on behind the scenes, as it were.

[jandl100]

Some system photos would be nice.

[jandl100]

And there was me thinking you'd just connect a pre amp, twiddle a couple of knobs for room correction and away you go. Before I would consider these speakers I need to trade in my friends for some brainy ones :(

When I heard them at NW Audio Show last year I thought they sounded fab, clear as a bell with some real slam in the bass - a sound that tops my wish list. Didn't realise the speakers had so much going on behind the scenes, as it were.

Yes, that's the problem with a lot of the clever digital or computerised gear these days - you need a degree in digital technology to get the blessed things to work.
Plug and play? Fawgeddabowdit.
Way too much hassle for me, I just wanna play ma choons.

[Pharos]

That is for me Jerry a major problem, probably made more pronounced by age and a realisation of the finite time available.

At the age of 20 or so we can easily get very involved with all the technology, and I was fanatical, to the extent of it overriding other things in life, I used to spend hours as an aficionado reading all I could about Hi-Fi, and I worked in broadcasting.

Now I cannot be bothered to go through the numerous alternatives for digital streaming, a factor exacerbated by the changes in the market over the last few decades, I simply want to find the most succinct and best solution, and haven't yet really addressed researching the problem.

This change in the market is seemingly universal, so much choice, so much reading to do, and about questionable benefits of each product.

Sainsburys a couple of years ago analysed their shampoo range, to find that they had of the order of 36 varieties; lots of colours, odours and descriptions, and baffling because there is usually so little science in them.

There is even a TV ad referring to the abundance of choice as overbearing.

[scotty38]

At the risk of going OT same here.... I know I could have bought a Pi etc for streaming and it would have probably been better than what I did buy. Also need to add I could set it up myself as I ran a classic squeezebox since 2006 and use Linux as my OS of choice but I just couldn't be bothered and bought a Bluesound node instead....

[Pigmy Pony]

At the risk of going OT same here.... I know I could have bought a Pi etc for streaming and it would have probably been better than what I did buy. Also need to add I could set it up myself as I ran a classic squeezebox since 2006 and use Linux as my OS of choice but I just couldn't be bothered and bought a Bluesound node instead....

Martin, most of what you said there made no sense to me, yes I really am that shit with tech :(

Much as I really liked the sound of the Dutch+Dutch 8Cs, for eight grand I'd expect their company boffin to set them up for me, and maybe be on call for any technical issues that may arise.

I know I'm a bit of a luddite, but I feel I've got to an age where I don't want to use up my remaining time on this earth learning "how to", I simply want my purchases to just work, without me first taking a course. I don't think that's asking too much

[scotty38]

Martin, most of what you said there made no sense to me, yes I really am that shit with tech :(

Much as I really liked the sound of the Dutch+Dutch 8Cs, for eight grand I'd expect their company boffin to set them up for me, and maybe be on call for any technical issues that may arise.

I know I'm a bit of a luddite, but I feel I've got to an age where I don't want to use up my remaining time on this earth learning "how to", I simply want my purchases to just work, without me first taking a course. I don't think that's asking too much

I was basically agreeing with what you just said :D

[Pigmy Pony]

I was basically agreeing with what you just said :D

I know, you just confused me a bit with long words like Pi. More comfortable with pies.

[Djdonald]

Hi. The dealer that you buy the speakers from should do the detailed set up for you. In many ways they are very easy to use and plug and play - they do not need to be connected to a network to play music depending on how you implement them.
I have found that the room correction makes a big difference. My room is about 24ftx14ftx8ft.
Pic of current system listening to penguin cafe's new album streaming from qobuz. All of the cyrus gear in the rack is surplus to requirements (and for sale if anyone is interested). The only kit other than speakers needed is that little black box on the chest of drawers.
26812

[Frazeur1]

I know, you just confused me a bit with long words like Pi. More comfortable with pies.

Got a nice laugh out of that! Good one for my morning. I agree on some of this, things are just too silly tech-laden these days. Not that it doesn't bring benefits at times...I suppose...