Croft vs Upgraditis [emoji1677][emoji43]

[Bigbird]

Now that ive managed to volley that pesky little upgrade bug in to row Z ,i thought id share a few pics of the current noise maker.

Firstly id like to send a huge thankyou to Roger (Blodger) of this parish for being a top bloke throughout the purchase of his babies.

It probably wasnt an easy decision to make to let these go, but one mans loss is another mans gain so i jumped at the chance when i saw his recent advert in the classifieds and after shuffling my gear about within 24hrs it made this dream possible.

Having been constantly searching for that magical sound for a few years now via various components manufacturers (regas,cambridge,B&W, Naim ,linn , spendor and etc etc) i can finally say that ive hit the peak and the need for MORE is well and truly gone now that the Croft combo has landed.

The 25r and 7r monos were recently upgraded by Glenn to the latest top spec and with the newest spec transformers. Theres a NOS Sylvania 12bh7 in the linestage and NOS Mullards and Edichrons elsewhere in the pre and power amps.
Detail is probably even steven with the RSL Naim 72 pre but it has shown the Naim setup a clean pair of heels elsewhere with a more natural, open, airy ,spacious presentation and i think thats down the monos.

They are absolutely stunning and im one very happy camper indeed , there was only ever going to be one winner in this fight and the Crofts get the KO in the first round.
Bye bye upgrade bug

Current lash up -
Linn LP12 (too many mods to mention)
Audio technica Art 9
Whest 2.2
Spendor SP2/3R2
Croft 25r
Croft 7r monoblocks
Chord Cobra 3 interconnets
QED signature revelation speaker cables

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190417/ffa322475a87abcdc65c5f1ee869b1bf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190417/c7b6991fbd324c12ef170b020cd9c7f3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190417/a1c51677fd2724bc3a25c9e2568f2fa8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190417/b77327fd2577a4065125c3faff54152a.jpg



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[JohnJo]

Great looking set up Karl!

:respect:

[Opti-cal]

Hi Karl,

lovely lovely kit there.

Looks the cat's knackers with the matt black croft boxes, with the clean lines of the equipment supports and some wood thrown in.

I have/had a similar setup but on the cheapo compared to yours. Modified Croft 25 with standard 7 power amp and croft RIAA phono stage. LP12 (much less modified) with it too. Unfortunately I could never get the right speaker combo to really compliment it. It sounded good just not quite "right" if I was being picky. Never had the cash (balls) to stump up for some proper Spendor/Harbeth's but probably should have done.

God knows I've spent (wasted) enough to have bought some by now!

One day I'll assemble another Croft/LP12 system but for now I'm stuck in a love nest of Quad stuff . . . .

Love that plinth . . . a lot.

Cheers,

Chris

[Bigbird]

Great looking set up Karl!

:respect:

Thanks buddy


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[Bigbird]

Hi Karl,

lovely lovely kit there.

Looks the cat's knackers with the matt black croft boxes, with the clean lines of the equipment supports and some wood thrown in.

I have/had a similar setup but on the cheapo compared to yours. Modified Croft 25 with standard 7 power amp and croft RIAA phono stage. LP12 (much less modified) with it too. Unfortunately I could never get the right speaker combo to really compliment it. It sounded good just not quite "right" if I was being picky. Never had the cash (balls) to stump up for some proper Spendor/Harbeth's but probably should have done.

God knows I've spent (wasted) enough to have bought some by now!

One day I'll assemble another Croft/LP12 system but for now I'm stuck in a love nest of Quad stuff . . . .

Love that plinth . . . a lot.

Cheers,

Chris

Thanks Chris, the croft gear is superb no matter what end of the ladder your at so im sure it sounded stunning mate.

I think the box monitor type speakers (harbies and spendors) are the perfect match for croft gear. Nothing added nothing taken away so that liquid fluidity can flow through.

I put together the TT myself from parts and ive been lucky with my other gear and stumbled across amazing deals ,ex dem etc, at around half or less of the retail price for everything so by time ive shuffled old components about ive always managed to get a nice upgrade for a small outlay. Lord knows you need it in this game on an average wage haha.

The plinth is santos rosewood, the character is beautiful. I chose the plank as i knew it would look amazing oiled up. Really makes the linn pop.

I dont have any experience with Quad gear myself but it very well thought of so im sure its super?

Cheers

Karl


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[Marco]

Absolutely fantastic looking system, Karl, and judiciously chosen set of components... Superbly set up. too! Also great to see someone embracing the importance of proper equipment supports, speaker stands and effective isolation!:clap::thumbsup:

Bet it all sounds fab!! I know that Croft/Spendor is a winning combo. All I'd do is move your speakers a little further apart, and certainly further forward, so that the equipment isn't sat right in between them, and toe them in slightly towards the listening position, as that will significantly improve the overall sound (especially imaging).

Marco.

[Jimbo]

Fantastic Karl, beautifully matched system and a little similar to my own. I expect yours however sounds a little better especially with those beautiful 7r monos!:)

[Bigman80]

Well done Karl,

You've put together a great looking (and sounding) system there, you must be very proud.

The racks look superb.

Happy listening.

[RobbieGong]

Really nice looking system Karl that as already expressed, I bet sounds fab :thumbsup:

[Bigbird]

Absolutely fantastic looking system, Karl, and judiciously chosen set of components... Superbly set up. too! Also great to see someone embracing the importance of proper equipment supports, speaker stands and effective isolation!:clap::thumbsup:

Bet it all sounds fab!! I know that Croft/Spendor is a winning combo. All I'd do is move your speakers a little further apart, and certainly further forward, so that the equipment isn't sat right in between them, and toe them in slightly towards the listening position, as that will significantly improve the overall sound (especially imaging).

Marco.

Thanks Marco, the urge to try valves has been niggling me since we last spoke , and it was a case of waiting for the right deal to pop up.
The missus nearly had a heart attack when i told her i was taking some of the house deposit to buy “another bloody upgrade?... you said you were done last time” .
Thankfully i sold my Naim setup within a few hours so it kept her off my back. Haha.
I would love to bring the speakers out a bit more but theyd be in the walkway through the kitchen and the living room (joys of renting a city apartmet) but this will be sorted when we buy towards the end of the year. They are however shoed in slightly to the listening position although its hard to tell in the pics.
Needless to say its a winning combo and im set now for a long while, maybe just a bit of fun with some valves, but dont tell her that.


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[Bigbird]

Fantastic Karl, beautifully matched system and a little similar to my own. I expect yours however sounds a little better especially with those beautiful 7r monos!:)

Thanks James,

As you know its a combination dripping with class and synergy. The monos give more of everything and and the space and air around the instruments is very real indeed. I will pick your brains about valve combinations youve enjoyed soon as id like to squeeze everydrop i can out of it.

Cheers

Karl


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[Bigbird]

Well done Karl,

You've put together a great looking (and sounding) system there, you must be very proud.

The racks look superb.

Happy listening.

Cheers Oliver,
The rack started life as an aticama equinox I picked up on ebay for 50 notes.
I just gave it a sand and respray to white and made a few Merbau shelves for it to match the deck and speakers. Its worked a treat mate.


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[Bigbird]

Really nice looking system Karl that as already expressed, I bet sounds fab :thumbsup:

Thanks robbie its like all my Christmas’s have come at once. Been glued to it the last couple of days now. Its a great feeling to finally get to a point where I feel theres nothing in the chain i need to change, and also know i dont need to bust my bolocks doing saturdays anymore to pay for it all. Which means more money for tunes and more time for listening.. result


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[Bigman80]

Cheers Oliver,
The rack started life as an aticama equinox I picked up on ebay for 50 notes.
I just gave it a sand and respray to white and made a few Merbau shelves for it to match the deck and speakers. Its worked a treat mate.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLooks great. Well done!

[stairpost]

That's a very handsome LP12, a nice looking set up all round.

[Jimbo]

Thanks James,

As you know its a combination dripping with class and synergy. The monos give more of everything and and the space and air around the instruments is very real indeed. I will pick your brains about valve combinations youve enjoyed soon as id like to squeeze everydrop i can out of it.

Cheers

Karl


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If I can help with valve choices let me know and I can give you some options based on extensive listening experience with the Crofts. They do respond particularly well to NOS valves although I have had some good results surprisingly with some modern manufactured ones too.

[antonio]

Like everyone else, just have to say what a beautiful looking system and room. I'm no longer a fan of the LP12 but yours looks sublime with the Santos plinth.

[Primalsea]

That is a lovely system you have there, Karl.

I’ve always been intrigued by Croft equipment but I have nether heard any. What music do you listen to?

[Bigbird]

That's a very handsome LP12, a nice looking set up all round.

Thanks buddy, very much enjoying it


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[Bigbird]

If I can help with valve choices let me know and I can give you some options based on extensive listening experience with the Crofts. They do respond particularly well to NOS valves although I have had some good results surprisingly with some modern manufactured ones too.

Thanks james im a fan of a clean, clear detailed i suppose more ‘hifi’ sound as opposed to too thick and ‘ warm’. I have to say that the current combo sits somehwere nicely in the middle of that and sounds very good indeed. Just wondering if i can taylor it a touch more .


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[Bigbird]

Like everyone else, just have to say what a beautiful looking system and room. I'm no longer a fan of the LP12 but yours looks sublime with the Santos plinth.

Thats very kind thankyou. It certainly has lovely character in the grain doesnt it. This is no standard fruitbox , its sounds stunning, its fully souped up apart from a DC motor and possibly a better arm somehwere down the line. The problem with linn is not only the price of its products but the constant need to upgrade it to get it to the standard of some TTs half the price.
Thankfully there are good manufacturers like tiger paw and edmund chan who make parts that are just as good if not better than linns, but a hell of a lot cheaper which makes them accessible to people like myself who arent loaded.


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[Bigbird]

That is a lovely system you have there, Karl.

I’ve always been intrigued by Croft equipment but I have nether heard any. What music do you listen to?

Cheers dude, its absolutely superb sounding stuff so give it a try if you go for a change in the future .
I listen to all sorts, mad on the mod scene growing up so lots of 60s and 70s pop ,r&b and soul, funk, blues , psych, jazz, rock etc . I just appreciate all music now. If its good its good no matter what genre.



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[Antinchip]

Karl,

All looks very nice indeed with the Croft core similar to my own. I am not surprised that it sound sublime. Mine;

WTA GT/Dynavector DVXX2 Mk2
Rothwell Headspace
Croft RIAA-R
Croft phono 25R - Electro Harmonix 12AX7; JJ ECC83S; Mullard 85A2
Croft 7R monoblocks - RCA 12BH7A; Mullard 85A2: NOS Mullard ECC83
Tannoy Turnberry SE

You might need to substitute "tube rolling" for "upgradeitus" though.

Enjoy!

[Bigbird]

Karl,

All looks very nice indeed with the Croft core similar to my own. I am not surprised that it sound sublime. Mine;

WTA GT/Dynavector DVXX2 Mk2
Rothwell Headspace
Croft RIAA-R
Croft phono 25R - Electro Harmonix 12AX7; JJ ECC83S; Mullard 85A2
Croft 7R monoblocks - RCA 12BH7A; Mullard 85A2: NOS Mullard ECC83
Tannoy Turnberry SE

You might need to substitute "tube rolling" for "upgradeitus" though.

Enjoy!

Haha your probably right mate but we will cunningly diguise it as ‘tube rolling’ so her indoors doesnt ask any questions about the next couple of hundred quid doing a Houdini from the bank account .

Sounds like a beautiful little rig you have yourself there .
A local tech who services audio research and mcintosh spoke very highly of the electro harmonix tubes too. So maybe i can try one myself


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[Jimbo]

I cannot make out if your line stage is standard Karl, i.e. ECC83? If it is I would get this upgraded to 12BH7A line stage with non inductive resistors.

In the regulation stage I would use standard JJ Tesla ECC83, they out performed my Tesla NOS Tesla in this position. If it is ECC83 line stage I would use either a NOS Tesla ECC83(my preferred choice) or NOS Telefunkens.

In the input stage of the 7R I would use the GE JAN 5751. Slightly lower output than regular ECC83 but can be driven harder with less distortion.

https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=1394

[Bigbird]

I cannot make out if your line stage is standard Karl, i.e. ECC83? If it is I would get this upgraded to 12BH7A line stage with non inductive resistors.

In the regulation stage I would use standard JJ Tesla ECC83, they out performed my Tesla NOS Tesla in this position. If it is ECC83 line stage I would use either a NOS Tesla ECC83(my preferred choice) or NOS Telefunkens.

In the input stage of the 7R I would use the GE JAN 5751. Slightly lower output than regular ECC83 but can be driven harder with less distortion.

https://www.watfordvalves.com/product_detail.asp?id=1394

Thanks jim i believe it has a nos sylvania 12bh7a in the linestage with two ecc83s(not sure which type, i think JJ) and a nos mullard 85a2 so must be the upgraded version?
It has nos edichrons on the input stage of the monos currently but i had read about the 5751’s being detailed,watford valves say their cryo 5751s are the best sounding?. Ive also heard they are good in the pre linestage but would that work in the upgraded linestage, if not do you have any recommendations for pre valves? Are there any telefunkens that fit the bill? Also How much does the gain decrease i seem to get good volume around 6 oclock on the dial. 7 if i fancy it a bit louder.


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[Jimbo]

Good you have the 12BH7A in line stage. I would maybe go for a NOS Brimar or even better NOS RCA in this position.

Yes the GE cryo 5751 valves are plenty detailed and sound great in the input stage. The gain will not decrease noticeably, in fact you will have more useful gain to play with.

[Bigbird]

Good you have the 12BH7A in line stage. I would maybe go for a NOS Brimar or even better NOS RCA in this position.

Yes the GE cryo 5751 valves are plenty detailed and sound great in the input stage. The gain will not decrease noticeably, in fact you will have more useful gain to play with.

Yes that makes sense , i just read that you lose about one number of gain on the dial. So if you listen at 6 it will drop to five , but as you say you can turn it up further without any issues if need be.
I shall keep my beady eyes peeled for an RCA and GE and see how i get on. Thanks for your knowledge james. Much appreciated bud




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[Jimbo]

Always nice to pass on knowledge and experience Karl especially regarding Croft gear. I have tried many, many valves in all positions in the Croft preamp and their have been a few surprises. Glenn uses JJ Tesla valves as standard issue due to availability and indeed they can sound OK but in the phono or line stage they can certainly be bettered which is all the fun of having a Croft - easy tube rolling.:)

One valve I would steer clear of is the JJ ECC99 which is a 12BH7a modern equivalent - it is terrible!

I am most impressed with your speaker stands for the SP2's , may I ask what they are Karl? Your whole system looks fabulously presented and sorted and the stands look particularly good with the speakers and the correct height.

[Bigbird]

Always nice to pass on knowledge and experience Karl especially regarding Croft gear. I have tried many, many valves in all positions in the Croft preamp and their have been a few surprises. Glenn uses JJ Tesla valves as standard issue due to availability and indeed they can sound OK but in the phono or line stage they can certainly be bettered which is all the fun of having a Croft - easy tube rolling.:)

One valve I would steer clear of is the JJ ECC99 which is a 12BH7a modern equivalent - it is terrible!

I am most impressed with your speaker stands for the SP2's , may I ask what they are Karl? Your whole system looks fabulously presented and sorted and the stands look particularly good with the speakers and the correct height.

Thats great james thanks. Do you know which type of rca tube would be the best? Ie black plates, d- getter etc? 50s,60s? Or are they all pretty good from that era?

The stands are based on the ‘hifi racks fortis’ model that are designed for spendors. They sell on analogue seduction for £500 but i wasnt paying that so i bought some hard wood and made them myself in a couple of evenings. Then just added sorbothane domes for the speakers to sit on. I made them slightly taller as im 6ft3 so that the tweeters are in my ear line . All in all for wood , screws , glue , paint and domes etc it cost me 70 quid so a massive saving and i had a bit of fun making them.

They work a treat and look the business too so all in all a good result

Cheers


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[Jimbo]

Thats great james thanks. Do you know which type of rca tube would be the best? Ie black plates, d- getter etc? 50s,60s? Or are they all pretty good from that era?

The stands are based on the ‘hifi racks fortis’ model that are designed for spendors. They sell on analogue seduction for £500 but i wasnt paying that so i bought some hard wood and made them myself in a couple of evenings. Then just added sorbothane domes for the speakers to sit on. I made them slightly taller as im 6ft3 so that the tweeters are in my ear line . All in all for wood , screws , glue , paint and domes etc it cost me 70 quid so a massive saving and i had a bit of fun making them.

They work a treat and look the business too so all in all a good result

Cheers


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Any of the NOS RCA valves from 50 -60s would be good. Not sure about black plates although they do get mentioned a fair bit. I just found the two RCA valves I have used in the line stage were perfect balance of tonal quality, detail and musicality.

Top man for building those stands they are superb and look very professional. I may have a go at building some myself when I retire as i am sure they would be fairly easy to build. I use some old target stands for mine which are ok and do the job but not as elegant as yours.

I have attached a few pictures of valves and my gear for you to look at.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7829/45771192495_32d92efb9f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2cJDjTi)
IMG_0024 (https://flic.kr/p/2cJDjTi) by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2e3DJT2]https://live.staticflickr.com/7883/46631326911_d8147318c1_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2e3DJT2) by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/27tu4th]https://live.staticflickr.com/1801/42317853354_e2891fe211_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)image (https://flic.kr/p/27tu4th) by J

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2euBAhq]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46925136664_0bf7ac913c_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)IMG_0033 (https://flic.kr/p/2euBAhq) by J

[url=https://flic.kr/p/RQaw4r]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32706530567_406e24189e_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)IMG_0004 (https://flic.kr/p/RQaw4r) by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2euBAEj]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46925137934_7385a67c26_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/)IMG_0077 (https://flic.kr/p/2euBAEj) by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/162281319@N03/]

[Bigbird]

Wow thats some collection you have there James so im sure youve amassed a great deal of evidence on which tubes are good and which are not. Do you have any trusted sellers out there who wont pull ny pants down with the price? Some of these valves are upwards of 80 quid a pop.

The stands really were a piece of cake for a tradesman like myself and anyone with half a brain would breeze it too.. Measure twice cut once as they say. Glue screw sand and paint.

All of your gear looks lovely too and im sure it sounds it. Im especially intrigued by that FGS on the 2m black. Would love to hear that combo. Im sure somthing like that retail would be a very big investment indeed.

[Jimbo]

There are some guys on here that regularly sell valves at reasonable price, I will have a look who I bought from in the past.

With regards to where to buy NOS valves its a bit pot luck i am afraid. I would avoid eBay and go for some of the reputable sellers. I think some of the chaps on AOS might ne able to point you in the right direction, I think Tubemonger and Langers are good swell as Watford valves.

[Frazeur1]

Love the Croft “porn” there! Wonderful gear guys!

[Bigbird]

There are some guys on here that regularly sell valves at reasonable price, I will have a look who I bought from in the past.

With regards to where to buy NOS valves its a bit pot luck i am afraid. I would avoid eBay and go for some of the reputable sellers. I think some of the chaps on AOS might ne able to point you in the right direction, I think Tubemonger and Langers are good swell as Watford valves.

Thanks Jim, i think watford are a safe bet for the 5751’s, just have to track down a decent RCA valve. Maybe i will post a wanted ad when i get paid. Somebody out there may have one


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[Bigbird]

Love the Croft “porn” there! Wonderful gear guys!

Thanks matey, im equally as happy as i know jimbo is with his. Staggeringly good stuff. I love the simple clean looks aswell .


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