View Full Version : The bug has definitely bitten me!
gazcarts
13-05-2010, 15:14
Hi all,
I'm back again with another update on my adventures with vinyl. I apologise in advance for being such a novice, but I hope you don't mind my occasional ramble?
You may recall that I recently acquired an Akai AP-306C from Ebay, followed not long after by a Croft Acoustics RIAA valve phono amplifier. The Croft sounds superb, easily bettering the Lehmann Black Cube SE I already had.
You may also recall that one of my first posts was inquiring about a Tag Mclaren PPA20 to match the rest of my system. Well, it was Sod's Law that, on the day I took delivery of the Croft, a chap on Hifi Wigwam emailed me to tell me he was selling his PPA20. This is the same chap who failed to sell the PPA20 on 2 occasions in 2009, but by the time I'd seen his ads, he'd given up trying to sell it and had decided to keep it. A change of circumstances means he no longer needs to the PPA20, hence the email.
This is all getting very expensive, as you can imagine, but my excuse is that I can always sell the phono amps I don't need. Well, the PPA20 arrived today and I connected it to my system, currently running the Akai (the Technics is temporarily retired as I like the auto return of the Akai). I wasn't expecting it to beat the Croft, especially given the recommendations I've received on the forum, so I was astounded to find that it sounds better than the Croft. More detail, wider and deeper soundstage, more realism. I'm totally blown away.
As I said earlier, I'm a total novice, so I'm sure more experienced members will probably disagree with my findings based on their own experience. However, I notice a significant improvement. Ok, I only have a Dynavector 10x5 and an old Akai TT, but I really am impressed. I'm also very happy with the sound I'm hearing and don't feel like I need to upgrade anything else, although today I also took delivery of a mint Fons CQ30 which some of you may have seen on Ebay. I need to acquire an SME tonearm for that (or an armboard that will take the Jelco arm I have) before I can give that a try.
Another advantage of the Tag is its flexibility. I can connect 2 turntables with different cartridges, which is lucky, as I now have 3 turntables!
Maybe it's time to stop buying equipment and start buying more LPs?!
Apologies about the long post by the way :)
Best wishes
As I said earlier, I'm a total novice, so I'm sure more experienced members will probably disagree with my findings based on their own experience. However, I notice a significant improvement.
They'd better bloody not! Who's ears are they? :lol:
Glad that the TAG is doing it for you, if you think it is better in YOUR system in YOUR room with YOUR music and to YOUR ears, then you are right, and everyone else, whatever their experience, is WRONG!
And anyway, there are a lot of fans of Audiolab/TAG on here, very respected kit.
And yes - my philosophy is always spend 10x the system cost on music!
Alex, if it's wrong, it's wrong, whatever personal opinions one may have..
If the TAG phono-amp is perceived better than the Croft, then I'm not too surprised tbh. If this unit is based heavily on the old Audiolab phono stage, i can conform that a lot of careful design went into it..
HOWEVER!!!!
The Akai deck almost certainly is a bottleneck on LP reproduction and the Fons won't be any better I'm afraid, as the CQ30 had MANY severe design faults, like a ringing platter, low motor torque, a jittery sub-chassis and rather flimsy internal construction. I'd rather have a Thorens TD160 I think. The Croft may just be reproducing the Akai better perhaps..
Time will tell if I'm talking out of my backside yet again or not.....
gazcarts
13-05-2010, 22:26
The Croft may just be reproducing the Akai better perhaps..
Dave, am I correct in thinking you're suggesting the Croft sounds worse because it reproduces the flaws of the Akai better than the Tag?? In other words, the Tag "magically" makes the Akai sound better than it really is?
I have little experience of high end turntables, cartridges and valve amplification. What I do know is that the Akai isn't far behind my Technics SL1200 fitted with a rebadged Jelco SA-250ST and the same cartridge. The Akai cost me just over 50 quid. Of course, I could spend several hundred pounds more on an external power supply and new bearing for the Technics, but would I notice a HUGE difference, or would I then also have to invest in an expensive LO MC cartridge to really hear the benefits? The Akai already outclasses my £1100 Tag CD transport, and I'm sure the Fons will be even better. It's not the only TT with a ringing platter; the Technics suffers from that problem too, hence why we invest in decent mats.
I've read some fairly good reviews on the Fons, and I'm looking forward to trying it out. Am I better sticking with an SME 3009 arm or should I look at alternatives, assuming I can get a suitable armboard?
By the way, if there's anyone in the Aberdeen area with what they consider to be a high end turntable and system, I'd love to hear a demo, because otherwise I have no idea what I'm actually missing.
Many thanks
chris@panteg
13-05-2010, 22:47
Hi Gary ' if it sounds better ' it is better, as a certain Scottish chap once famously said .
trust your ears and your own judgment, at the end of the day you have to live with it .
Dave, am I correct in thinking you're suggesting the Croft sounds worse because it reproduces the flaws of the Akai better than the Tag?? In other words, the Tag "magically" makes the Akai sound better than it really is?
I have little experience of high end turntables, cartridges and valve amplification. What I do know is that the Akai isn't far behind my Technics SL1200 fitted with a rebadged Jelco SA-250ST and the same cartridge. The Akai cost me just over 50 quid. Of course, I could spend several hundred pounds more on an external power supply and new bearing for the Technics, but would I notice a HUGE difference, or would I then also have to invest in an expensive LO MC cartridge to really hear the benefits? The Akai already outclasses my £1100 Tag CD transport, and I'm sure the Fons will be even better. It's not the only TT with a ringing platter; the Technics suffers from that problem too, hence why we invest in decent mats.
I've read some fairly good reviews on the Fons, and I'm looking forward to trying it out. Am I better sticking with an SME 3009 arm or should I look at alternatives, assuming I can get a suitable armboard?
By the way, if there's anyone in the Aberdeen area with what they consider to be a high end turntable and system, I'd love to hear a demo, because otherwise I have no idea what I'm actually missing.
Many thanks
I'm mis-understanding a little and forgot you've done up the Akai a bit (?)
The techie platter ringing is NOTHING on the Fons, even those with stuck-on rubber discs/rings.
The Croft *may* respond a bit to tube-rolling. Don't sell it on just yet.
Like I said, if the TAG is based on the previous Audiolab offering, it should be superb by any standards. if you prefer it, fine - don't tell anyone :eyebrows: but I'm currently using a Dada recapped and bandwidth/gain adjusted Quad 33 as a line buffer for my headphone amp and it's superb now (awaiting the X-10D this afternoon..)
pure sound
14-05-2010, 08:49
MANY severe design faults, like a ringing platter, low motor torque, a jittery sub-chassis and rather flimsy internal construction.
Hmmm, sounds familiar! ;)
I'm with Dave on this one. ;)
But the overall result is down to personal taste, especially if you're novice, Gary. I don't mean this in a pejorative way at all, but we all need some kind of "reference" to decide what is "better" or "closer".
On the other hand, this is totally secondary and unimportant. Don't spoil your pleasure by listening too carefully other people's opinions and tastes : you need time to make up your own, which, as Alex says, is all what matters. ;)
chris@panteg
14-05-2010, 09:37
Hmmm, sounds familiar! ;)
Nice one Guy ' he he :eyebrows: like it.
Beobloke
14-05-2010, 09:38
..CQ30 had MANY severe design faults, like a ringing platter, low motor torque, a jittery sub-chassis and rather flimsy internal construction. I'd rather have a Thorens TD160 I think....
Hmm, I've had both and I'd take the Fons, personally. Suck it and see, Gary!
gazcarts
14-05-2010, 11:30
On the subject of the Fons, an SME arm isn't likely to be cheap (although someone just sold a CQ30 with SME 3009 for £88 on Ebay :doh:).
As I have a perfectly acceptable Jelco arm, are there any SME adapters that allow the fitting of Linn mount arms to an SME mount? I see you can get one for Rega arms, but so far unable to find any Linn adapters. Alternatively, are there any tonearms with an SME mount but not made by SME that might be suitable?
On the subject of the Akai, I'm really surprised at how good it sounds and don't feel like I'm missing out by not having a high end TT and cartridge. It's a shame one of you guys can't have a listen and give me your opinion :)
Regards
*Some* of these golden oldies scub up very well with some TLC and careful siting. I say some, because beauty was often skin deep and the innards could be truly lousy....
I do hope the Fons turns out to be a pleasant surprise - I should add the TD160 should be a Super......
Speaking of TD160 Supers, I have one with SME coming my way at Whitsun. I'm not going to be able to move for vinyl spinners before long.......... :scratch:
Beobloke
14-05-2010, 12:22
As I have a perfectly acceptable Jelco arm, are there any SME adapters that allow the fitting of Linn mount arms to an SME mount?
Avid turntables come as standard with an SME mount, and they make their own adaptor plate to allow fitment of the Jelco SA-250ST to the Diva II. I don't know if they sell the adaptor separately, but it might be worth ringing and asking. I've been nagging Conrad to do a nice fully adjustable one since Slatedeck vanished but no luck yet!
I'm not going to be able to move for vinyl spinners before long.......... :scratch:
How many have you got, then?!
Not a huge collection, but in addition to my beloved Dual 701, I have a 1972 vintage Beogram 3000/SP12, a Technics SL-150/Grace 707/Supex 900E Super, a Thorens TD125mk1 awaiting a Rega drilled hole in a blank board for an R200 and a Spacedeck/RB300/AT-F5 on a promise. The 160 Super/SME is from basically the same source (an old school friend) that the Crown amps and Spendors came from..
gazcarts
22-05-2010, 23:37
Well I've finally got the Fons up and running :)
I ended up buying an SME Series III tonearm off Ebay, from a chap who had owned it since new (he was 18 when he bought it!). You need an engineering degree to fit and adjust it, but it's finally fitted, along with my trusty Dynavector 10x5.
And the sound? Well it sounds fabulous! In fact, as the amplifiers warm up, it sounds better and better. It's actually taking my breath away, as dramatic as that sounds. It's a delight to have such an old deck playing again, after the previous owner had it in storage since the 80s! It's in beautiful condition (see blurry photos) and possibly the first time it has had a tonearm fitted judging by the armboard.
I'm currently using a Herbie's Mat in place of the standard felt one, although I haven't listened to the felt one yet to compare.
Happy days :)
Regards
Rare Bird
23-05-2010, 07:25
Hi Gary
I see you got the best looking version..Those platters are superbly engineered
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/309.jpg
gazcarts
23-05-2010, 07:38
Hi Gary
I see you got the best looking version..Those platters are superbly engineered
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/LIVING-SIN/309.jpg
Hi Andre,
I haven't tried removing the platter as I wasn't sure it could be removed. I had no idea is was so substantial. What mat do you use on yours?
Regards
Rare Bird
23-05-2010, 07:53
Hi Gary
I don't have my Fons decks anymore, i used to have three of them, the one same as yours, the one with the couloured controls & the one that looks like the original Ariston 'RD11' but it was just a simple Felt mat i had on em.
gazcarts
23-05-2010, 08:25
Hi Gary
I don't have my Fons decks anymore, i used to have three of them, the one same as yours, the one with the couloured controls & the one that looks like the original Ariston 'RD11' but it was just a simple Felt mat i had on em.
You must have known the deck very well? Any recommendations?
Regards
gazcarts
23-05-2010, 20:57
A quick question...
I have a Townshend Audio tonearm cable that I'd like to use with the Fons/SME. Problem is, it has a 5 pin DIN socket at the turntable end. The SME has normal RCA phono connections.
I've rigged up a separate earth cable, so could I use a phono to DIN cable (e.g. like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260115763280&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT) one) to connect the Townshend cable?
Many thanks
A quick question...
I have a Townshend Audio tonearm cable that I'd like to use with the Fons/SME. Problem is, it has a 5 pin DIN socket at the turntable end. The SME has normal RCA phono connections.
I've rigged up a separate earth cable, so could I use a phono to DIN cable (e.g. like this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260115763280&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT) one) to connect the Townshend cable?
Many thanks
Depends how that DIN plug is wired. If the DIN socket on the your deck is wired as an output, then you need a plug wired using pins 2, 3(left) and 5(right). Suspect the lead you refer to is designed so that the DIN plug is the input to a Naim amp, so will be wired as for tape in ( or record) using pins 1, 2 and 4.
Regards
gazcarts
23-05-2010, 21:51
Depends how that DIN plug is wired. If the DIN socket on the your deck is wired as an output, then you need a plug wired using pins 2, 3(left) and 5(right). Suspect the lead you refer to is designed so that the DIN plug is the input to a Naim amp, so will be wired as for tape in ( or record) using pins 1, 2 and 4.
Regards
Thanks Barry. Are there any alternatives that will allow me to use the Townshend cable?
Regards
I have been thinking a little more about the problem and think that I might have mis-lead you. There is no absolute convention on how a DIN socket/plug is wired; it all depends how the connector is used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector
Essentially I confused the wiring of a DIN socket as used on an amplifier with one as used on a tape machine. The Wikipedia item explains this.
So it all depends on exactly how the DIN socket on your turntable is wired; I don't think there is a convention for this. Are you able to see how it is wired?
It might be that the lead you have in mind will be OK.
Regards
gazcarts
24-05-2010, 18:13
I have been thinking a little more about the problem and think that I might have mis-lead you. There is no absolute convention on how a DIN socket/plug is wired; it all depends how the connector is used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector
Essentially I confused the wiring of a DIN socket as used on an amplifier with one as used on a tape machine. The Wikipedia item explains this.
So it all depends on exactly how the DIN socket on your turntable is wired; I don't think there is a convention for this. Are you able to see how it is wired?
It might be that the lead you have in mind will be OK.
Regards
Hi Barry,
There isn't a DIN connector on the turntable, or rather the tonearm. It's an SME series 3 arm with the standard phono outputs. The Townshend cable has a 5 pin DIN at the tonearm end with normal phonos at the amplifier end along with 3 earth cables. Two of the earth cables disappear into the left and right cables and the third into the bottom of the DIN plug, so no earth cables to connect at the tonearm end, if that makes sense. I've attached a couple of photos.
Regards
Rare Bird
24-05-2010, 18:45
You must have known the deck very well? Any recommendations?
Regards
If i was to be buying a mat it would be a Funk Firm mat
If the SME is wired phono, it couldn't be easier, as there are some wonderful low capacitance phono leads available on ebay for not much money. They won't have the cachet of a "designer" tonearm wire, but Van Damme (for example) use good materials in their cables and the Pro-Patch ones are very flexible. Even the thicker ones (in fig 8 configuration) aren't too stiff for the Fons suspension. Add a flexible stranded wire for earth, linking the deck's chassis to arm and then to amp should finish it off nicely for around twenty quid.....
gazcarts
24-05-2010, 19:56
If the SME is wired phono, it couldn't be easier, as there are some wonderful low capacitance phono leads available on ebay for not much money. They won't have the cachet of a "designer" tonearm wire, but Van Damme (for example) use good materials in their cables and the Pro-Patch ones are very flexible. Even the thicker ones (in fig 8 configuration) aren't too stiff for the Fons suspension. Add a flexible stranded wire for earth, linking the deck's chassis to arm and then to amp should finish it off nicely for around twenty quid.....
Hi Dave,
Funnily enough I may end up buying one of Johnnie's (Audio Origami) phono to phono cables at £55. Do you rate it? I'm currently having to make do with some VDH D102 interconnects, but they're quite thick and not too flexible, so probably not ideal for the suspended deck.
Regards
Hey Gary, how are you finding the SME III? ;)
It's good to see my old arm back in service again.
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 07:56
Hey Gary, how are you finding the SME III? ;)
It's good to see my old arm back in service again.
Hi Martin,
You know, I had no idea it was you! :)
The arm is great; so configurable. Just need to sort out a cable. Not sure which will be better, a DIN to phono adapter to use my Townshend Isolda, one of Audio Origami's cables, or the Van Damme one suggested by Dave. I'm hanging fire in the hope of some more advice.
Best wishes
The thing with phono to phono, rather than an arm connector, is that you have a huge choice of cables available to you. I would avoid any kind of adapter at such low voltages; you might be better off with a cable like the Mark Grant G1000HD. Can the Townshend be re-terminated by them? That may be worth investigating.
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 08:35
The thing with phono to phono, rather than an arm connector, is that you have a huge choice of cables available to you. I would avoid any kind of adapter at such low voltages; you might be better off with a cable like the Mark Grant G1000HD. Can the Townshend be re-terminated by them? That may be worth investigating.
Hi Martin,
I doubt it's worth getting the Townshend re-terminated; it would probably be easier/cheaper to buy another of their cables. They come up on Ebay at much less than retail. However, as you say, there are many more options and I will take a look at Mark Grant's offering too.
Many thanks
Hi Gary,
I understand now: you have an SME arm with phono sockets (and presumably a set of SME phono - phono leads) and you want to replace the SME leads with the Townshend leads.
The DIN connector used on modern arms has 5 pins arranged on an arc of 240 degrees. The Townshend lead has such a connector. The DIN to phono adapter lead you mention uses a DIN plug that has the 5 pins arranged on an arc of 180 degrees. The two connectors are thus incompatable.
The only solution is either to remove the DIN connector from the Townshend cable and replace it with two phono plugs, or to make up a new cable terminated with phono plugs at each end. But this is what you already have with the SME arm lead - what is it about the SME leads that you don't like; are they not long enough ?
Regards
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 10:08
Hi Gary,
I understand now: you have an SME arm with phono sockets (and presumably a set of SME phono - phono leads) and you want to replace the SME leads with the Townshend leads.
The DIN connector used on modern arms has 5 pins arranged on an arc of 240 degrees. The Townshend lead has such a connector. The DIN to phono adapter lead you mention uses a DIN plug that has the 5 pins arranged on an arc of 180 degrees. The two connectors are thus incompatable.
The only solution is either to remove the DIN connector from the Townshend cable and replace it with two phono plugs, or to make up a new cable terminated with phono plugs at each end. But this is what you already have with the SME arm lead - what is it about the SME leads that you don't like; are they not long enough ?
Regards
Hi Barry,
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't actually receive an SME phono to phono lead with the arm. Martin? ;)
Regards
Gary
I'm afraid it's lost in the mists of time. I'll have a rummage in my cable box but don't hold your breath. As I recall, early SME cables were not great anyway.
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 10:57
Gary
I'm afraid it's lost in the mists of time. I'll have a rummage in my cable box but don't hold your breath. As I recall, early SME cables were not great anyway.
Don't worry about it Martin; I probably would have changed it anyway. By the way, I was very impressed with the collection of bits and bobs that came with the tonearm. All I needed to find were some wood screws to attach the arm. Thank you again. :)
Best wishes
I kept it all in the SME box and it managed to stay together over the years. Even SME packaging is an art form. Did you decide to use the fluid damper?
I have another two arms to sell, a Michell TecnoArm and an Audiocraft AC3000 (straight tube) but I can't find the boxes and bits since my last house move. Most frustrating as I am really trying to clear out 30 years of accumulated hi-fi.
I don't think I'll ever buy another arm as I finally have the arm of my dreams :)
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 12:20
I kept it all in the SME box and it managed to stay together over the years. Even SME packaging is an art form. Did you decide to use the fluid damper?
I have another two arms to sell, a Michell TecnoArm and an Audiocraft AC3000 (straight tube) but I can't find the boxes and bits since my last house move. Most frustrating as I am really trying to clear out 30 years of accumulated hi-fi.
I don't think I'll ever buy another arm as I finally have the arm of my dreams :)
I've fitted the fluid damper. Was thinking about buying the damping fluid that Johnnie sells at Audio Origami. Or would it be better to use genuine SME fluid?
Best wishes
The SME fluid is incredibly viscous and takes about 1/2 hour to gloop out of the container. Other damping fluids tend to be more runny and I think are more suited to modern cartridges. I would be tempted to use non-SME fluid, start with the smallest paddle and work upwards if you feel the need for more damping.
I've fitted the fluid damper. Was thinking about buying the damping fluid that Johnnie sells at Audio Origami. Or would it be better to use genuine SME fluid?
Best wishes
If you have the SME fluid then it is probably best to use it, since the viscosity of the damping fluid has been chosen by SME to be optimum for the design of their damping trough.
Having said that, there is no reason why an alternative source of fluid could not be used, provided it is of similar viscosity. The SME fluid is remarkably thick, having a viscosity of 200,000cS. You will need 2ml of fluid and it takes a while to fill the damping trough; between one and two hours - it's that viscous!
Regards
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 12:47
If you have the SME fluid then it is probably best to use it, since the viscosity of the damping fluid has been chosen by SME to be optimum for the design of their damping trough.
Having said that, there is no reason why an alternative source of fluid could not be used, provided it is of similar viscosity. The SME fluid is remarkably thick, having a viscosity of 200,000cS. You will need 2ml of fluid and it takes a while to fill the damping trough; between one and two hours - it's that viscous!
Regards
Bloody hell! According to their site, the AO stuff is only twice as thick as water, so it doesn't sound anywhere near as viscous as the SME stuff.
Regards
Bloody hell! According to their site, the AO stuff is only twice as thick as water, so it doesn't sound anywhere near as viscous as the SME stuff.
Regards
The kinematic viscosity of water is ~ 1cS. That would imply the Audio Origami stuff has a value of ~2cS; utterly useless for your application.
The AO fluid is intended for damping applied very close to the headshell and stylus. The SME damping trough is some 36mm away from the pivot. The mechanical advantage provided by the stylus-to-arm pivot distance means that the viscosity of the damping fluid needs to be greater.
Must admit the viscosity of the SME fluid at 200,000cS does seem high, however I presume SME have got their sums right. I have used the SME damper/fluid quite happily for thirty years, with cartridges as varied as: the Decca Mk V/VI, vintage Ortofons, the EMT and even the Linn Asak.
Regards
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 14:56
The kinematic viscosity of water is ~ 1cS. That would imply the Audio Origami stuff has a value of ~2cS; utterly useless for your application.
The AO fluid is intended for damping applied very close to the headshell and stylus. The SME damping trough is some 36mm away from the pivot. The mechanical advantage provided by the stylus-to-arm pivot distance means that the viscosity of the damping fluid needs to be greater.
Must admit the viscosity of the SME fluid at 200,000cS does seem high, however I presume SME have got their sums right. I have used the SME damper/fluid quite happily for thirty years, with cartridges as varied as: the Decca Mk V/VI, vintage Ortofons, the EMT and even the Linn Asak.
Regards
Thanks Barry, that makes sense. They do mention the Townshend dampening as well as SME. Where do get your damping fluid from?
Regards
I used the fluid that came with the FD200 retro-fitting damper.
Dow Corning make a silicone grease (PMX-200) that has a kinematic viscosity of 60,000 cS. It is marketed by Xiameter 'PMX-200 silicone fluid', however I cannot find out if it is available in small quantities, or how much it costs.
The US company Clearco make a 'High Viscosity Pure Silicon Fluid' at 100,000 cS. Unfortunately the smallest quantity available is 5 gal!
I would like to suggest Vaseline as a cheap alternative, but I cannot as yet find out the viscosity (it might be too high).
Regards
I would like to suggest Vaseline as a cheap alternative, but I cannot as yet find out the viscosity (it might be too high).
Erk, surely that's far too viscous?
How about http://www.turntablebasics.com/silicone.html
Erk, surely that's far too viscous?
How about http://www.turntablebasics.com/silicone.html
That should do it - good one Martin!
I suggested Vaseline, as that seems to be the 'gunk' supplied with the Keith Monks unipivot arm.
Regards
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 18:26
Erk, surely that's far too viscous?
How about http://www.turntablebasics.com/silicone.html
Thanks fellas, but do I go for the 30k or 100k stuff? :)
Back to the the tonearm cable. I've been reading a few of the posts about the Mark Grant cables, and also stumbled across a post by DSJR about the cables he bought on Ebay. I was about to buy a pair of these but then thought I'd check my box of cables first.
Here's a list of the cables I could use:
Cambridge Audio Pacific
Audioquest Quartz
VDH D102 Mk III
QED Silver XT (speaker cable but only about 1.5m long)
I'm going to try them all out, but what do people on the forum think might best suit the set-up I have? :)
Many thanks
Thanks fellas, but do I go for the 30k or 100k stuff? :)
Back to the the tonearm cable. I've been reading a few of the posts about the Mark Grant cables, and also stumbled across a post by DSJR about the cables he bought on Ebay. I was about to buy a pair of these but then thought I'd check my box of cables first.
Here's a list of the cables I could use:
Cambridge Audio Pacific
Audioquest Quartz
VDH D102 Mk III
QED Silver XT (speaker cable but only about 1.5m long)
I'm going to try them all out, but what do people on the forum think might best suit the set-up I have? :)
Many thanks
Since the SME stuff is 200,000 cS, go for the 100k cS fluid. I have done a little more research and if you are in the mood to 'roll your own', you might like to try:
Vaseline: absolute viscosity 64,000 cP, density between 0.85 and 0.93g/cc, therefore has a kinematic viscosity of 68,500 to 75,000 cS.
Corn syrup ('Mazola' cooking oil): absolute viscosity 110,000 cP, density between 1.38 and 1.5g/cc, therefore has a kinematic viscosity of 73,000 to 80,000 cS. On second thoughts, being a vegetable oil rather than a mineral oil, it is unstable - it will oxidise and degrade with time. :doh:
As for cables - I'm the last person to offer advice!
Regards
gazcarts
25-05-2010, 21:40
Since the SME stuff is 200,000 cS, go for the 100k cS fluid. I have done a little more research and if you are in the mood to 'roll your own', you might like to try:
Vaseline: absolute viscosity 64,000 cP, density between 0.85 and 0.93g/cc, therefore has a kinematic viscosity of 68,500 to 75,000 cS.
Corn syrup ('Mazola' cooking oil): absolute viscosity 110,000 cP, density between 1.38 and 1.5g/cc, therefore has a kinematic viscosity of 73,000 to 80,000 cS. On second thoughts, being a vegetable oil rather than a mineral oil, it is unstable - it will oxidise and degrade with time. :doh:
As for cables - I'm the last person to offer advice!
Regards
Thanks Barry. Interesting research :lol:
I'm not really in too much of a rush as it sounds very good without damping, but it would be interesting to hear if there is a difference, so I will keep an eye out for something suitable.
As for the interconnects, I've stuck with the Audioquest Quartz. The sound is lovely with those. I've also ordered some of the ones mentioned by DSJR, as they only cost £13.50 delivered. They may be more flexible than the Audioquest ones so will use those if they sound as good.
Best wishes
The FD200 fluid was far too thick as first supplied and we used to shave the paddles right down. Later, SME sold some "reducing fluid" to thin it down.
If shaving the paddles is too bad an idea, replace the viscous stuff with Johnson's Baby Oil - perfect for all sorts of different things ;)
Rare Bird
26-05-2010, 10:31
The FD200 fluid was far too thick as first supplied and we used to shave the paddles right down. Later, SME sold some "reducing fluid" to thin it down.
If shaving the paddles is too bad an idea, replace the viscous stuff with Johnson's Baby Oil - perfect for all sorts of different things ;)
I thought Johnsons baby shampoo a better consistancy than the viscous stuff ;)
gazcarts
26-05-2010, 16:11
Kinky jokes aside, which is better (for dampening).....Johnson's Baby Oil, or Johnson's Baby Shampoo?
And no "there's only one way to find out.....FIGHT!" jokes either! :lol:
Regards
The OIL, definitely :eyebrows:
I'm actually being serious here. The viscous fluid was far too thick and stopped cartridge suspensions working properly on anything other than ruler-flat records. You didn't even need a cueing device, just hold the arm above the record and let go - the arm would ever-so-gently lower down onto the record.
(It's also possible to over-damp uni-pivots too (like the Hadcocks and Formula 4's etc..). All you need to do is stop the wild oscilations by allowing one "rebound.")
gazcarts
26-05-2010, 19:13
The OIL, definitely :eyebrows:
I'm actually being serious here. The viscous fluid was far too thick and stopped cartridge suspensions working properly on anything other than ruler-flat records. You didn't even need a cueing device, just hold the arm above the record and let go - the arm would ever-so-gently lower down onto the record.
(It's also possible to over-damp uni-pivots too (like the Hadcocks and Formula 4's etc..). All you need to do is stop the wild oscilations by allowing one "rebound.")
Thanks Dave. I'll give it a go and see if it makes any difference. Ordered one of those Van Damme interconnects off Ebay by the way.
Best wishes
Having just cut one in half and re-terminated the ends with Neutrik-Rean phono's and jacks, I think £13.50 or so is a darned good price, as those plugs aren't easy to terminate on this wire (the chunky fig 8 one)
gazcarts
26-05-2010, 20:12
Still researching the damping fluid, I notice that the KAB damper for the Technics stock arm uses silicone fluid with viscosity of 60,000 cst and seems to indicate that anything less makes is ineffective. Baby oil is very low viscosity, possibly in the region of 18 cst, although not sure about that.
I notice a couple of model shops that sell silicone fluid with viscosity of 60,000 cst, or even more. Just wondering if the 60000 cst stuff would be a good alternative to the SME stuff?
Here's (http://www.podiumrc.co.uk/product-271692.php) an example.
Regards
FFS, LOOK AT THE GIANT SME PADDLES!!!!!!!!!
You don't need a highly viscous fluid for these. Why not take the advice OF SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN THERE and USED the stuff.......
My online voice is hoarse. I'll shut up now...
gazcarts
26-05-2010, 20:37
FFS, LOOK AT THE GIANT SME PADDLES!!!!!!!!!
You don't need a highly viscous fluid for these. Why not take the advice OF SOMEONE WHO'S BEEN THERE and USED the stuff.......
My online voice is hoarse. I'll shut up now...
I'll get my coat.......;)
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