Contemplating a new DAC

[yabadaba]

Hi, my current digital setup is a Raspberry Pi 3 / Allo DigiOne combo loaded with Volumio and fed by network located FLAC files (my CD rips), Spotify or Tidal. The output goes into a Shek D1 (NOS) DAC (TDA1543) and then to a Yaqin MC100B (KT88 tube amp) and onwards to a pair of Spendor S9e's. I played around with different digital sources (CD players) and DACS a few years ago and settled with the Shek because of how more noticeably smoother it made everything sound. I really can't get on with anything even bordering on bright/sharp sounding.

However, I'm finding that I still enjoy listening to my vinyl sources so much more and even though they generally sound very smooth and laid back (compared to my digital sources) they somehow manage to produce a more detailed and involving sound at the same time. Okay, I know digital sources will never sound like analogue ones and I shouldn't be trying to achieve that, but are there any DACS out there, for under £400, that might provide more detail and 'texture' whilst not sounding too bright or forward. I prefer a richer, more laid back presentation and one with with a strong bass and whilst I know I should aim to achieve this via amp/speakers, if the DAC is going to lean one way or another then that towards that would be my preference. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Gazjam]

I’d go for a Rega Dac, very close to sounding like you are describing.
a “Non digital” and musical listen, easy to relax into the music and forget about whether your dac is “good enough”.

Not heard the new version, but see if you can pick one of those up second hand for your budget, it’s supposed to be better than the Version 1 which I had.

[Jimbo]

The Allo Boss 1.2 DAC

[Bigman80]

The Allo Boss 1.2 DACYup. Couldn't agree more at this point.

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[antonio]

Depending how much you want to spend you could have a look at the Metrum NOS range.

[yabadaba]

Thanks for the replies, I'll look into all these options.

But, starting off with the Allo Boss 1.2, can I ask does anyone know if this is designed to work together with the RPI and DigiOne combo or just the RPI alone? I suspect it might negate the need for the DigiOne. If all 3 together then I'm not sure if there would be a case option. Sorry, I'm a bit of a RPI noob and haven't quite got my head around all the configuration/add on options yet. Thanks, David.

[StanleyB]

Since you are in London, just like me, why not give my Caiman SEG a try? It has all the attributes you are looking for, including the deep bass.

[NRG]

I’m not up to speed on the latest Volumio but if it has an option to alter the sox filter settings I’d have a play with that first. Also, maybe the Shek would benefit from a power supply upgrade.....

[DSJR]

NOS DACs can put out loads of ultrasonic rubbish and according to info measured here and there, it's not low in level either, so be warned. May cause distortion at audio frequencies, thereby adding sonic 'character' perhaps.

The Rega DAC has been designed and 'voiced' by a vinyl loving company, so any sonic character will be more around warmth of tone rather than sharply 'etched' 'deeeeetail.' Me? I'm a cheapskate, so I'd look first at a £200 Topping D50 which at least measures pretty well properly and doesn't seem especially power supply fussy...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-topping-d50-dac.2403/

[Firebottle]

Thanks for the replies, I'll look into all these options.

But, starting off with the Allo Boss 1.2, can I ask does anyone know if this is designed to work together with the RPI and DigiOne combo or just the RPI alone? I suspect it might negate the need for the DigiOne. If all 3 together then I'm not sure if there would be a case option. Sorry, I'm a bit of a RPI noob and haven't quite got my head around all the configuration/add on options yet. Thanks, David.

It works with the Pi alone, it is a Dac/reclocker combined.

Interesting developments in the midlands with 3 of us using this and experimenting with power supply arrangements.

[Yomanze]

I’d be tempted by the new Allo Katana DAC, and sell the DigiOne. I would opt for the “sound quality” stage rather than the “pure THD” stage.

[mightymonoped]

I’d be tempted by the new Allo Katana DAC, and sell the DigiOne. I would opt for the “sound quality” stage rather than the “pure THD” stage.

I'm just waiting for mine to arrive right now. Went for the Katana + Isolator with "Sound Quality" stage. Plan on using existing 2 power sources initially, standard Allo 5V power to the 'Dirty' side of the Isolator and the 20000mAh Power Bank to the Micro Controller.

Would be waiting at home for me tonight if it weren't for ParcelForce's unerring ability to screw up every single delivery I have ever relied on them for. :-(

[Firebottle]

Be very interesting to hear how you get on Tony as we (the 'midlands three') are all using Pi + Allo Boss V1.2 + isolator.

[Ashmore]

I've been using the Katana set-up Tony described above (though mine with a Longdog PSU) for a couple of months. I posted my impressions on the Katana thread recently. Several weeks on and it continues to beguile me; it's a wonder.

For the OP I should acknowledge that I am not much of a vinyl listener, so can't comment on the Katana's character in comparison with analogue.

[The Black Adder]

+1 for the Katana.

Please read my review here: https://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?61774-THE-ALLO-KATANA-1-2-DAC-REVIEW-A-new-ball-game

[Landloper]

Audiovisual Online are currently offering Roksan K3 DACs [RRP £1,300] at a very tidy 69% discount - £399.00 including next working day delivery if you order before 16.00. I bought one last week and am delighted with it, the best sounding DAC I've listened to so far. A friend had bought one so I was able to take my own HPA, cables, and cans to replicate how it would perform in my setup.

[wee tee cee]

Stans SEG/dorado combo would fit the bill nicely.

I tried the Rega dac a few years ago....way too warm and laid back for me.

[yabadaba]

Audiovisual Online are currently offering Roksan K3 DACs [RRP £1,300] at a very tidy 69% discount - £399.00 including next working day delivery if you order before 16.00. I bought one last week and am delighted with it, the best sounding DAC I've listened to so far. A friend had bought one so I was able to take my own HPA, cables, and cans to replicate how it would perform in my setup.

Very tempting for that money, but wonder how the sound signature compares to the Rega dac-r, which I've been researching and consistently is described as being analogue sounding, smooth, powerful bass etc...sounds right 'up my street'!

[jandl100]

I tried the Rega dac a few years ago....way too warm and laid back for me.

I agree, it's got warmth and bass heft but imo is sadly lacking in clarity and dynamic get up and go.

Some folks do seem to love them but I do wonder if that's because they haven't heard what else is on offer. But, tastes do differ, also system synergy.

[Landloper]

No argument with the Rega sound from me, David. I have an RP3/24 + TTPSU & Fonostage. If the Rega-r didn't suit they are easy to sell on, so you'd probably not loose by trying one out.

[yabadaba]

I agree, it's got warmth and bass heft but imo is sadly lacking in clarity and dynamic get up and go.

Some folks do seem to love them but I do wonder if that's because they haven't heard what else is on offer. But, tastes do differ, also system synergy.

I really need to hear one and ideally in a demo against at least one other DAC...but my local hifi shop seems to be concentrating on the all-in-one type streamer now, as per Naim, Linn etc and I think the only standalone DAC they had was the Rega. When I asked about it recently they didn't offer a demo as they used to always do many years ago when I was last looking to (and did) buy kit from them. The Katana/Isolator setup sounds interesting too though and would work out cheaper, especially if I were to sell my Allo DigiOne, which it seems would then be surplus to requirements.

[StanleyB]

I agree, it's got warmth and bass heft but imo is sadly lacking in clarity and dynamic get up and go.

Some folks do seem to love them but I do wonder if that's because they haven't heard what else is on offer. But, tastes do differ, also system synergy.
Have you had a chance to listen to a TC-7535 Caiman SEG with the Dorado? Or are you confusing it with the TC-7520 Caiman SEG?

[yabadaba]

No argument with the Rega sound from me, David. I have an RP3/24 + TTPSU & Fonostage. If the Rega-r didn't suit they are easy to sell on, so you'd probably not loose by trying one out.

Good point, I would imagine would be easy to sell on...though sometimes I can be a bit lazy with that...explains the collection of old CDP's, amps and phono stages I have sitting here gathering dust!

[jandl100]

Have you had a chance to listen to a TC-7535 Caiman SEG with the Dorado? Or are you confusing it with the TC-7520 Caiman SEG?

ah, sorry, Stan. I see now that my post was ambiguous and I have corrected it.

I certainly would not accuse any of your DACs of being laid back or lacking in excitement. I was referring to the Rega.
A Beresford DAC is definitely one for the short list.

[julesd68]

Be very interesting to hear how you get on Tony as we (the 'midlands three') are all using Pi + Allo Boss V1.2 + isolator.

Hi Alan, could you tell me how that combo sounds in comparison to the Digione/ Topping D30 which I seem to remember you tried out - am still using mine.

Cheers

[hifinutt]

if you could just sqeeze a bit more to afford this , it would be worth it

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/133201-jolida%E2%80%99s-new-dac-black-ice-dsd-with-mega-mods/

[mightymonoped]

First chance to listen to the Katana tonight. Standard disclaimer as it is only on standard switching power supplies to the Micro Controller & Isolator (as the order was missing an extra power supply).

Superficial listening session using familiar tracks (having listened to said tracks recently in the Boss setup).

First impressions are very, very promising indeed.

That’s not to say that the impression was immediate, it wasn’t. Swapping in the Katana was at first like a more refined and detailed version of the Boss but not a night and day difference.

This was not unexpected however, having read others reviews and also knowing that my system takes at least 40 mins to ‘get comfy’ I just carried on listening to familiar tracks....after about an hour, things just started to happen, BIG TIME!

The music just seemed to bloom and I found myself completely captivated.

I had to force myself to stop listening as I really hadn’t planned on listening to my entire music collection afresh (not to mention the entire contents of Tidal Hifi) [emoji13]

I think it’s fairly safe to say that I am very pleased with this change and very much looking forward to hearing what this astonishing little setup has to offer ongoing.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/0d3ed08e02e575d5ddc1e6acee02904f.jpg


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[Firebottle]

Hi Alan, could you tell me how that combo sounds in comparison to the Digione/ Topping D30 which I seem to remember you tried out - am still using mine.

Cheers

I never had a Digione Julian, only a Topping D30 fed from SPDIF.

I can say the Topping was bettered by my Bel Canto Dac3, a smoother bass and less grain to the treble, though not a huge difference given the price differential.
Now I have the RPi/Allo Boss V1.2 all on linear psu's this is now bettering the Bel Canto, with greater insight to the recording space/ambience.

[Jimbo]

First chance to listen to the Katana tonight. Standard disclaimer as it is only on standard switching power supplies to the Micro Controller & Isolator (as the order was missing an extra power supply).

Superficial listening session using familiar tracks (having listened to said tracks recently in the Boss setup).

First impressions are very, very promising indeed.

That’s not to say that the impression was immediate, it wasn’t. Swapping in the Katana was at first like a more refined and detailed version of the Boss but not a night and day difference.

This was not unexpected however, having read others reviews and also knowing that my system takes at least 40 mins to ‘get comfy’ I just carried on listening to familiar tracks....after about an hour, things just started to happen, BIG TIME!

The music just seemed to bloom and I found myself completely captivated.

I had to force myself to stop listening as I really hadn’t planned on listening to my entire music collection afresh (not to mention the entire contents of Tidal Hifi) [emoji13]

I think it’s fairly safe to say that I am very pleased with this change and very much looking forward to hearing what this astonishing little setup has to offer ongoing.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/0d3ed08e02e575d5ddc1e6acee02904f.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the initial impressions Tony. Funny I found my system and the Pi3 +Boss 1.2 took a little time to warm up and give its best. It is very encouraging to hear your thoughts when I already know how superb the Boss sounds.

I need to get to hear the Katana!

Did you know Allo are bringing out their own PSU for the Boss and Katana called the Nirvana? I think it will also add something special to the sound although a couple of LPSU will also elevate the Allo DACs to another level.

[mightymonoped]

Thanks for the initial impressions Tony. Funny I found my system and the Pi3 +Boss 1.2 took a little time to warm up and give its best. It is very encouraging to hear your thoughts when I already know how superb the Boss sounds.

I need to get to hear the Katana!

Did you know Allo are bringing out their own PSU for the Boss and Katana called the Nirvana? I think it will also add something special to the sound although a couple of LPSU will also elevate the Allo DACs to another level.

Wasn't aware of that, thanks! I may just hold fire on the dual iFi's then. In the meantime, will have a play with using the Power Bank into the Micro Controller (soon as the little Micro USB to USB C adaptors arrive), then I can use the 'USB cable switches' to make the whole 'Katana Power-up Ritual' a little easier.

[struth]

still using my digione into eiher of my dacs. the one in the vena or my xs. The vena is improving all the time and im using it more now to see how much i can get out of it. good the digione has 2 outputs. im still just using a standard psu tho

[Ashmore]

First chance to listen to the Katana tonight....

Nice to read your experience Tony, and to see how closely it accords with my own experience. I'd be interested to read more reflections as the system settles.

Simon

[mightymonoped]

Nice to read your experience Tony, and to see how closely it accords with my own experience. I'd be interested to read more reflections as the system settles.

Simon

Last night was a more extensive listening session. Apologies for the 'bullet point' notes here but it's a brief lull in an otherwise busy day undoing the damage caused by Windows Updates :-)

* Resolution and detail - boy this puppy digs out some unexpected stuff from the mix. Every track is a bit of a voyage of discovery, but in an enjoyable way not a tiring sideshow.

* Vocals - Close vocal harmonies and complex vocal tracks are so easily resolved into their constituents and also placed in soundstage depth.

* Coherence - everything just makes more musical sense, vocally, rhythmically and dynamically.

* Transparency - easily shows the quality of the track's recording and production, not to mention the characteristics of the partnering equipment you are using to listen to it on.

[Jimbo]

Last night was a more extensive listening session. Apologies for the 'bullet point' notes here but it's a brief lull in an otherwise busy day undoing the damage caused by Windows Updates :-)

* Resolution and detail - boy this puppy digs out some unexpected stuff from the mix. Every track is a bit of a voyage of discovery, but in an enjoyable way not a tiring sideshow.

* Vocals - Close vocal harmonies and complex vocal tracks are so easily resolved into their constituents and also placed in soundstage depth.

* Coherence - everything just makes more musical sense, vocally, rhythmically and dynamically.

* Transparency - easily shows the quality of the track's recording and production, not to mention the characteristics of the partnering equipment you are using to listen to it on.

Can you let me know what differences you find between the Boss and Katana?

[struth]

what psu does the Katana use?

[mightymonoped]

what psu does the Katana use?

At the moment, I am just using two standard 5V supplies (one in Micro Controller, one in the Isolator).

[struth]

At the moment, I am just using two standard 5V supplies (one in Micro Controller, one in the Isolator).

ah, how many bits, or boards are there ... the digione is just a single board plus the pi, and just 1 psu

[mightymonoped]

Can you let me know what differences you find between the Boss and Katana?

I thought that was what the bullet points were highlighting the areas of improvement over my old Boss setup to be honest. I should have added 'Control' maybe, as the bass in particular is notably tighter and more controlled (Laura Marling's track "Soothing" is a good example, the two basses being used on the track are easily resolved and distinct).

[mightymonoped]

ah, how many bits, or boards are there ... the digione is just a single board plus the pi, and just 1 psu

Lots of bits and boards, and even more ways of powering them! :-)

The main constituents (in my setup) are:-

The Micro Controller
The Opamp
The Katana
The Isolator
The RPi

The preferred (by Allo) way of powering is to the Micro Controller and the Isolator - but there are many variations and many advocates of other methods.

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/IIL9GvUVg7phCrSOi0Uu4iRsAV98kF1m5BcN3Nchp7N

[struth]

jeez, think i will pass :D

[Ashmore]

jeez, think i will pass :D

You can get them pre-built Grant. It's a rather impressive looking stack..

[mightymonoped]

You can get them pre-built Grant. It's a rather impressive looking stack..

Yes! If you buy the Plug n Play version you can avoid the fiddling about.

For those of you who are having a lot of grief with the 'powering-up routine'..

You can avoid a lot of the powering on/off grief as well by using micro-usb on/off switches https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01HEXFQTU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Haven't been able to find these with a USB C fitting but the addition of these little convertors works a treat..

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B072X3TZ15/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[jonners]

The 'powering up routine' is no longer necessary with the current version of Katana. I power everything up together and it work fine.

[mightymonoped]

The 'powering up routine' is no longer necessary with the current version of Katana. I power everything up together and it work fine.

Is that the same when using the Isolator? If so, then that's even better, I can still use the switches on the powerbank to choose between charging and powering the Katana.

[struth]

You can get them pre-built Grant. It's a rather impressive looking stack..

think i will stick with the neat digione and the nice aluminium case. looking at the prices, it is becoming an expensive item.

[Tmltech]

Assuming you dont need MQA I would suggest the Caimen SEG with Dorado power supply, very analogue sounding with decent proper musical bass. As you are based in London and Stanley the owner of Home HIFI is based in NW London and has a 30 day money back offer if you dont like it (you will) you have nothing to lose. Just for reference I tried a Rega DAC the latest version and the Caimen surpasses it and I have an all Rega System apart from Streamer

[yabadaba]

Assuming you dont need MQA I would suggest the Caimen SEG with Dorado power supply, very analogue sounding with decent proper musical bass. As you are based in London and Stanley the owner of Home HIFI is based in NW London and has a 30 day money back offer if you dont like it (you will) you have nothing to lose. Just for reference I tried a Rega DAC the latest version and the Caimen surpasses it and I have an all Rega System apart from Streamer

Thanks, that's helpful...I will look into the Caiman some more. Can I ask how the Rega and Caiman compared in terms of sound signature/tonal balance...what did you find was better with the Caiman?

[jonners]

Is that the same when using the Isolator? If so, then that's even better, I can still use the switches on the powerbank to choose between charging and powering the Katana.

I haven't got the isolator but my guess is that it would be OK.

[Hypnotist]

Since you are in London, just like me, why not give my Caiman SEG a try? It has all the attributes you are looking for, including the deep bass.

I can vouch for the bass I kept thing my sub was on during a upgrade

[orchardaudio]

PecanPi DAC
See my website in signature .

[struth]

Xiang sheng

[Intenso]

Xiang sheng

I've tried the SEG and Boss DACs and keep coming back to the Xiang Sheng which when fed from a good transport really hits the spot for a warm musical sound....