Best value upmarket USED CD replay machine

[Neil McCauley]

Last night on a previous thread I made the following statement:

“Henceforth I’ll be advising my customers as to which “Previously cherished” CD machines can be bought from e-Bay to match the LFD/Harbeth combinations they have bought and will continue to buy from me.”

That thread can viewed under ‘The Digital Impression’ category on this site at http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=636

Overnight I have received a number of emails from people wanting me to expand on this. The common denominator being along the lines of – ‘What is your top recommendation these days?’

The simple answer is this: Any used Ayre CD or CD/DVD player. And I emphasise used rather than the outrageous (given the almost unprecedented strength of the £ against the $) prices in the UK for new. Please note that I cannot supply used Ayre equipment – but I'm happy to pass on the links to the sources I would use, if I did.

Here are a few relevant links:

Ayre products: http://www.ayre.com/products_detail.cfm?productid=2

Used Ayre (UK spec) at bargain prices: http://search.ebay.co.uk/ws/search/SaleSearch?sofocus=bs&satitle=Ayre&sacat=293%26catref%3DC5&fbd=1&dfsp=1&from=R6&nojspr=y&pfid=0&fswc=1&few=&saprclo=&saprchi=&fss=0&saslop=1&sasl=&fls=4%26floc%3D1&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&salic=3&saatc=3&sadis=200&fpos=N13+4RJ&fsct=&sacur=0&sacqyop=ge&sacqy=&sabfmts=0&saobfmts=exsif&ga10244=10425&saslt=2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&sabdlo=&sabdhi=&saaff=afdefault&afepn=&customid=&afmp=&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D1&fcl=3&frpp=200

Used Ayre (US specification) at bargain prices – source #1: http://search.ebay.co.uk/ws/search/SaleSearch?sofocus=bs&satitle=Ayre&sacat=293%26catref%3DC5&fbd=1&dfsp=1&from=R6&nojspr=y&pfid=0&fswc=1&few=&saprclo=&saprchi=&fss=0&saslop=1&sasl=&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D0&fls=3&salic=1&saatc=3&sadis=200&fpos=N13+4RJ&fsct=&sacur=0&sacqyop=ge&sacqy=&sabfmts=0&saobfmts=exsif&ga10244=10425&saslt=2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&sabdlo=&sabdhi=&saaff=afdefault&afepn=&customid=&afmp=&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D1&fcl=3&frpp=200

Used Ayre (US specification) at bargain prices – source #2: http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_fs.pl?WORD=Ayre&FOCUS=EXY&CTGSK=dgtlplay&submit=Search

A source of decent step-down transformers so that a USA spec Ayre can be used in the UK without compromise that I can hear (I know – ‘cos I used one myself): http://search.ebay.co.uk/ws/search/SaleSearch?sofocus=bs&satitle=step+down&sacat=293%26catref%3DC5&fbd=1&dfsp=1&from=R6&nojspr=y&pfid=0&fswc=1&few=&saprclo=&saprchi=&fss=0&saslop=1&sasl=&fls=4%26floc%3D1&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D0&salic=3&saatc=3&sadis=200&fpos=N13+4RJ&fsct=&sacur=0&sacqyop=ge&sacqy=&sabfmts=0&saobfmts=exsif&ga10244=10425&saslt=2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&sabdlo=&sabdhi=&saaff=afdefault&afepn=&customid=&afmp=&fsop=3%26fsoo%3D1&fcl=3&frpp=200

Hope this helps.

[Mr. C]

Howard, I sure you good friend Mr Crump will be pleased with this post. ;)

[Neil McCauley]

Mr Grumpy has his own commercial agenda, as indeed is his prerogative. He is thoroughly professional and I believe an astute businesman. We worked well together for a while.

Meanwhile, I have the utmost respect for the performance and reliability of Ayre digital – even though I no longer stock it!

The value of it when new, at what I feel are the silly UK prices, is not particularly good in my opinion. This is because (for reasons beyond my comprehension) the price depreciation is high. Good news for the shrewd buyer of used Ayre though. It's only market forces at work. Bought used from the USA and using a decent step-down transformer, the sound quality for the bargain price is nothing short of joyful.

In fact, just this week I did a head-to-head in a customer's home with his Ayre versus a very expensive 2-box North Star digital replay using the external i2s interconnect system. Yes, the NS was superior, but the Ayre was, in the context of the owner's system, better value. I did my job as indeed I should, and had a cup of tea and then took my NS back home.

For further reference, you might want to check this out http://blog.listencarefully.co.uk/?p=1578t:

The 'ball' is now, I believe, in the other court. Let's wait and see! I won't be holding my breath though - and neither should anyone else.

[Mr. C]

I like the description of said gent, and I would concur 100% :)
The Is2 format is used a quite a few players (internal connection) there is also a newer updated version of it to.
Personally I find the CX7e pretty dry and lifeless, yet it does posses the hifi qualities that a lot seek and are happy with without question. The multi format version (Cx5e?) on the other hand is quite nice.

[griffo104]

I've always enjoyed the Ayre sound - very nice.

I read the US press and over there they are regarded as a good VFM brand - sort of like Rega are here, but sadly the prices don't seem to translate very well. I was almost tempted by the CX7e when someone had one for sale on the Wam but sadly no funds available.

I do agree with MrC's comments about the dry quality but I still quite like that.

[Filterlab]

Never heard any of Ayre's equipment (as far as I'm aware), it's certainly reviewed favourably though. Always looks very well made, and usually that's a good measure for having been designed well.

Great used players; Musical Fidelitys. Why? Because Anthony Michaelson seems to be intent on destroying his own brand by continually changing products and coming up with daft new blanket theories about audio.

[Complin]

Yes I had the same dilema
Can you really justify spending £10k - £20k on the likes of DCS, Meitner etc. Yes i'm sure they are better, but 5 or 6 times?

After looking at a number of options i decided to go for a separate transport and dac, which has not been fasionable for some time. I also wanted this to be ready for using with computer based audio so wanted a quality Dac that would accomodate this. This left me with a more limited choice of options and interfaces, USB, Firewire and I2S. I decided on I2S.

I had looked at importing items from the US due to the excellent $/£ exchange rate. However; once you add the costs of shipping, duty/vat and the need to buy a decent power converter, there can sometimes be little advantage.

I have also looked at the vintage CD market and there are some excellent units available here such as the Mission, Teac VRDS, Arcam, Krell etc. However sometimes the prices can seem extrordinarily high of flea bay say 700 Euro plus, for a decent unit. Then there are the doubts about spares, as some of these players its difficult to obtain sprares for, particularly dirves and lasers. Then there is the cost of any repairs should it go wrong, probably 120 Euro minimum just for the labour. So on balance i decided to look elsewhere.

I know that Howard is keen on the North Star Design combo, and it has received some good reviews regarding its build and sound quality. However given the current uncertainty in format and current worsening economic situation i didn't want to spend 3k-4k Euro on a new setup.

Therefore I looked to used items available in Europe (France, Germany, Italy etc) and have been able to pick up some excellent items at reasonable prices.

My North Star CD192 transport and Dac cost me 1500 Euro, about half price. I have even managed to to pick up a White Gold I2S cable at a third of the UK price.

[Neil McCauley]

Yes I had the same dilema

Can you really justify spending £10k - £20k on the likes of DCS, Meitner etc. Yes i'm sure they are better, but 5 or 6 times?

No, never that much in my experience. Not even close. The rate of diminishing returns is not linear. By this I mean it accelerates as the price band increases.

After looking at a number of options i decided to go for a separate transport and dac, which has not been fasionable for some time. I also wanted this to be ready for using with computer based audio so wanted a quality Dac that would accomodate this. This left me with a more limited choice of options and interfaces, USB, Firewire and I2S. I decided on I2S.

I thought it was 12s too. However it was pointed out to me that it is i2s. No matter though. On my 2-box North Star, the quality of reproduction was markedly and consistently superior using ANY i2S interconnect when compared to every other North Star transport to DAC connections.

I had looked at importing items from the US due to the excellent $/£ exchange rate. However; once you add the costs of shipping, duty/vat and the need to buy a decent power converter, there can sometimes be little advantage.

Agreed. Slightly different matter though with imports from Italy and Germany in particular.

I have also looked at the vintage CD market and there are some excellent units available here such as the Mission, Teac VRDS, Arcam, Krell etc. However sometimes the prices can seem extrordinarily high of flea bay say 700 Euro plus, for a decent unit.

Sometimes items achieve a somewhat bogus [in my opinion] 'classic' status on e-bay and the prices reflect this.

Then there are the doubts about spares, as some of these players its difficult to obtain sprares for, particularly dirves and lasers. Then there is the cost of any repairs should it go wrong, probably 120 Euro minimum just for the labour. So on balance i decided to look elsewhere.


Agreed.

I know that Howard is keen on the North Star Design combo, and it has received some good reviews regarding its build and sound quality. However given the current uncertainty in format and current worsening economic situation i didn't want to spend 3k-4k Euro on a new setup.

And I no longer want to try and sell them at that price either. 2 concurrent factors have taken place. First, the Italian makers put their prices up, no doubt because of massive increases in the wholesale prices of aluminium and silver. Then the Euro became very strong against the $

I am offering my North Star CD192 transport with DAC 192 and the i2S interconnect for £1,727.50 inc vat and UK carriage. This is 50% of the current UK RRP.