View Full Version : Mark Levinson Nº383
Ninanina
04-04-2019, 22:36
Thought I'd make a new listing for my 'new' amp
I've purchased the ML 383 Integrated amp and it will be delivered sometime next week
I have never been 'into' so called muscle amps but the Maggies might like it I thought
If anyone remembers I've had low powered SET amps before in the 8-10w range so this is a complete departure from the norm for me ;)
My SN2 gives about 80w into 8 ohms and maybe about 140w into 4 ohms, if I'm lucky
As Geoff (Sherwood) has always told me, the Maggies like some oomph behind them so I thought I'd try the 383 which gives at least 200w into the 4 ohm of the .7's
The 383 is being delivered next week so I'll let you know how I get on with it
walpurgis
04-04-2019, 22:47
Your Maggies might like a Quad 909 Bev (at a fraction of the cost). 240w into 4 ohms and creamy smooth top end, undoubtedly good with planar speakers too.
Ninanina
04-04-2019, 22:50
Your Maggies might like a Quad 909 Bev (at a fraction of the cost). 240w into 4 ohms and creamy smooth top end, undoubtedly good with planar speakers too.
I know I did consider a 909 but something about the ML appealed to me..
Sherwood
04-04-2019, 22:55
Thought I'd make a new listing for my 'new' amp
I've purchased the ML 383 Integrated amp and it will be delivered sometime next week
I have never been 'into' so called muscle amps but the Maggies might like it I thought
If anyone remembers I've had low powered SET amps before in the 8-10w range so this is a complete departure from the norm for me ;)
My SN2 gives about 80w into 8 ohms and maybe about 140w into 4 ohms, if I'm lucky
As Geoff (Sherwood) has always told me, the Maggies like some oomph behind them so I thought I'd try the 383 which gives at least 200w into the 4 ohm of the .7's
The 383 is being delivered next week so I'll let you know how I get on with it
I'm sure that you will be surprised by one thing about your new amp. Even though it is significantly more powerful than your current amp (no pun intended) it will probably not sound that much louder as the Maggies just soak up power like a sponge. What should be noticeably different is the tightening up of, and greater solidity to the bass and an improvement in overall detail and dynamics. With Maggies I have found that more power improves quality of output rather than quantity. I would say that you can expect a more lifelike immediate sound with the extra "grunt" of the ML.
Ninanina
04-04-2019, 23:36
That sounds great Geoff thanks..
I actually wasn't expecting the new amp to sound louder, as you say the Maggies will just soak it up, but the extra 'grunt' I'm sure will help
I will keep you posted when I receive the ML...
I think in general, unless you have very high sensitivity speakers, the bigger the amp the better. Bigger power supply seems to bring a sense of ease and ability to cope with whatever you throw at it. I imagine this is even more relevant to planar speakers as they are typically super low sensitivity and highly capacitive as far as I know.
jandl100
05-04-2019, 07:28
Excellent Stereophile review
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no383-integrated-amplifier-page-4
I bet it will be fabulous.
Stereophile ....
'the No.383 played with clarity, transparency, liquid mids and highs, and an ability to render dynamic contrasts second only to that of the Mark Levinson No.334. ..... the No.383 sounded powerful, fast, smooth, articulate, and dynamic—clear and in complete control. The midbass and midrange were smooth and grain-free.'
Spectral Morn
05-04-2019, 08:18
383 is a nice amp, heard it once with Revel speakers, sounded very nice. I have thought about buying one, but have yet to do so. I hope it works with your speakers.
jandl100
05-04-2019, 08:32
https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/jealous-gif-18.gif
:lolsign:
https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/jealous-gif-18.gif
[emoji38]sign:I think you need to go and see Bev when she gets it:)
hifi_dave
05-04-2019, 10:41
Nice amp if you can get it at the right price.
Back in the day, we sold a lot of ML being their biggest retailer in the UK.
Nice choice Bev, I'm sure you will be delighted with your new amp. :)
Frazeur1
05-04-2019, 14:37
Maggies and ML, will go together just like Fish and Chips, less greasy hopefully!
Ninanina
05-04-2019, 17:44
Excellent Stereophile review
https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no383-integrated-amplifier-page-4
I bet it will be fabulous.
Stereophile ....
'the No.383 played with clarity, transparency, liquid mids and highs, and an ability to render dynamic contrasts second only to that of the Mark Levinson No.334. ..... the No.383 sounded powerful, fast, smooth, articulate, and dynamic—clear and in complete control. The midbass and midrange were smooth and grain-free.'
That's one of the very good reviews I read Jerry
In general the reviews where all pretty good, so we will see
Ninanina
05-04-2019, 17:45
I think you need to go and see Bev when she gets it:)
Well Jerry doesn't normally like my choices so it's a new one on me :eek:
Well Jerry doesn't normally like my choices so it's a new one on me :eek:Charge him a high price when it's time to pass it on Bev:)
Ninanina
05-04-2019, 18:36
Because I've been using all Naim stuff for a while I sold all my non DIN interconnects so will initially have to 'borrow' Colin's Mark Grant cables, they are the nice WBT ones so I'm sure the ML will be happy
Also my speaker cable is NACA5 with soldered Naim plugs for the amp end so I can't use that either. Luckily I have some Mark Grant supplied Van Damme Black Series speaker cable lying around but had to order some Nakamichi spade connectors, and some silver solder, for the amp end as ML use these and I can't use the banana plugs it's currently fitted with
Why ML don't use banana plugs for speaker cable I've no idea
Obviously if I like the ML then I'll be ordering some new stuff from Mark..
Ninanina
05-04-2019, 18:38
Charge him a high price when it's time to pass it on Bev:)
:D:D
Hopefully I will like the ML and won't need to 'pass it on' to anyone...
:D:D
Hopefully I will like the ML and won't need to 'pass it on' to anyone...
I hope so too - but I remember you saying the last time you heard an ML amplifier, you weren't impresssed and thought it inferior to your Audio Note OTO amp.
Always fancied something like these or a tosh. Unlikely tho. Might save up for a leben
Ninanina
05-04-2019, 18:52
I hope so too - but I remember you saying the last time you heard an ML amplifier, you weren't impresssed and thought it inferior to your Audio Note OTO amp.
You are absolutely correct Barry. I only once heard ML and it was a couple of huge mono's and I was definitely not impressed
However I've been reading a bit about the ML 'house sound' and it would seem that it's not an immediately impressive sound but in the long run that seems to pay off
It was years ago that I heard the ML's but I think now owning the Maggies something 'like' an ML might suit them
Nothing ventured nothing gained I guess and I'm prepared to be either wowed by the ML or, indeed, completely underwhelmed by it
I've got a very open mind about the soon to be delivered ML and if it's not for me I will simply sell it on and look elsewhere
jandl100
05-04-2019, 19:12
You might want to think about different speaker cables to go with the ML, Bev.
NACA5 are fairly horrible, I doubt they will show your new amp at its best.
Ninanina
05-04-2019, 19:21
You might want to think about different speaker cables to go with the ML, Bev.
NACA5 are fairly horrible, I doubt they will show your new amp at its best.
Jerry I defo won't be using the NACA5 with the ML. My NACA5 is pro made with the soldered Naim plugs at the amp end, and I know I can sell that cable on no problem
While the Naim cable is fine with Naim stuff i'm sure it won't cut it with the ML
Once i've got the ML here, and if I like it enough, then I will treat it some some decent speaker cable
For the time being the Van Damme Black will have to do but will defo get some 'better' speaker cable for the ML
I've no idea what speaker cable I'd choose but I really like what Mark Grant has to offer so will probably go that route first
If anyone has any suggestions for good, but not too expensive, speaker cable for the ML i'd really appreciate it
I also have quite a liking for Tellurium stuff so might also consider either the Black or Ultra Black for the ML
jandl100
05-04-2019, 19:27
I suspect Hifi Dave will have experience with what works well with ML - if he doesn't reply here, drop him a PM. :)
Ninanina
05-04-2019, 19:33
I suspect Hifi Dave will have experience with what works well with ML - if he doesn't reply here, drop him a PM. :)
Great thanks Jerry... hopefully Dave will post his thoughts on cable suited to the ML...
hifi_dave
07-04-2019, 16:00
Sorry, missed this.
Nothing wrong with the TQ cables, in fact, they are very good but I definitely wouldn't use the NACA5.
Back when we sold ML, our cables of choice were Furukawa and the natural successor to these is Atlas with their OHNO pure copper and sophisticated construction. I would recommend the best Atlas cable your budget will allow.
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 17:43
Sorry, missed this.
Nothing wrong with the TQ cables, in fact, they are very good but I definitely wouldn't use the NACA5.
Back when we sold ML, our cables of choice were Furukawa and the natural successor to these is Atlas with their OHNO pure copper and sophisticated construction. I would recommend the best Atlas cable your budget will allow.
That's super thanks Dave for the info
I've just finished soldering the Nakamichi spade's to the Van Damme Black speaker cable, well once my Portasol decided to worked properly that is... I also managed to put a small screwdriver through my thumb... don't ask :doh:..... ouchy, very ouchy.. but the cable is all shrink wrapped up and ready to go
I believe ML used CZ GEL-2 cable for interconnects and there is someone on eBay that has it, NOS:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232375757545?_trksid=p2380057.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI232375757545.N36.S1.R1.TR2
So I might be tempted to use that and get someone to terminate some RCA's for me
I will also take a look at the Atlas cables
Of course, if I like the ML, then I will also improve the speaker cable but I'll use the Van Damme Black initially as well as borrowing the Mark Grant interconnects from Colin..
Dave do you know if the Furukawa cable/s are still available as I have a liking for anything Japanese...
In recent years at shows I have heard ML quite a bit. But it is ALWAYS partnered with JBL.
The one set up that really worked was at Munich 2018 where ML was driving JBL 4367. Killer, I thought. But that is contemporary ML, not a 383, which is from a while back now. Which is not to deride it.
Not much help, just sayin'.
You're in the same boat as me, Bev. Unsure how the Luxman will work with my Apogees. More than prepared to pass it on if not.
Oh I used to use Naim NAC A4 on Martin Logans. It was actually good on the bass cones only. Crap driving the ESL panel. I used solid core copper for that.
Just saying.
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 18:41
In recent years at shows I have heard ML quite a bit. But it is ALWAYS partnered with JBL.
The one set up that really worked was at Munich 2018 where ML was driving JBL 4367. Killer, I thought. But that is contemporary ML, not a 383, which is from a while back now. Which is not to deride it.
Not much help, just sayin'.
You're in the same boat as me, Bev. Unsure how the Luxman will work with my Apogees. More than prepared to pass it on if not.
Absolutely Justin..
I have nothing to loose by trying the ML and then to 'pass it on' if I don't get on with it..
What Luxman do you have, or have coming ?
M-800A Bev. Check Justin & Jerry thread.
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 18:55
M-800A Bev. Check Justin & Jerry thread.
That's looks a super amp Justin... very nice.. and hopefully enough 'grunt' for the Apogees to shine..
I did look at Luxman but nothing was available at a 'reasonable' cost...
Do you have the Luxman already or are you waiting delivery Justin ?
That's looks a super amp Justin... very nice.. and hopefully enough 'grunt' for the Apogees to shine..
I did look at Luxman but nothing was available at a 'reasonable' cost...
Do you have the Luxman already or are you waiting delivery Justin ?
Getting it tomorrow. Looking forward to hooking it up.
I had an L-435 for a while. This should be rather better.
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 19:06
Getting it tomorrow. Looking forward to hooking it up.
I know what it's like getting something new Justin
I really hope the Luxman is what you are looking for and will suit your speakers well...
I'm like a kid with a new toy.... I know that's sad but there you go... :doh:
Strangely I'm looking forward to getting the ML probably more than anything else I've owned... can't explain why though.... It might be because it's such a complete departure from anything else I've had in the system before.... :D
I'm just trying another amp for the hell of it. I have two sets of monoblocks anyway.
I like having a solid state and a valve option permanently.
So if the Luxman beats the Accuphase then they maybe up for sale. Or vice versa.
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 19:53
The ML 383 weighs in at about 30kg... ish
I have no idea if my Alphason A5-G audio unit can support that weight..
I've contacted Alphason but not heard back as yet
So I think I'll have to place the 383 on the bottom glass shelf just in case... but would much prefer it on the upper shelves to be honest...
The ML 383 weighs in at about 30kg... ish
I have no idea if my Alphason A5-G audio unit can support that weight..
I've contacted Alphason but not heard back as yet
So I think I'll have to place the 383 on the bottom glass shelf just in case... but would much prefer it on the upper shelves to be honest...
Each of my ML monoblocks weigh 30kg apiece. They can be lifted/moved by one person, but ideally two is better. Take care when lifting Bev.
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 20:20
Each of my ML monoblocks weigh 30kg apiece. They can be lifted/moved by one person, but idaelly two is better. Take care when lifting Bev.
Thank's Barry... I didn't know you owned ML stuff..
The 383 has rear handles for lifting...
As I mentioned I might have to grab the first 'fit' looking guy passing by to help me lift the ML though as I'm sure Colin is not up to it...
What ML's do you have ??
Mine are ML-2s, 25W pure class A; so that works out at 1.2kg/watt! They also have lifting handles front and rear, but I wouldn't want to lift/place them off the floor.
Next time you are out, look for a muscular builder and say in your best Mae West voice "do you want to come on up and listen to my hi-fi?". Failing that, as a sailing woman, commandeer a local friendly 'deck gorilla'. ;)
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 20:56
Mine are ML-2s, 25W pure class A; so that works out at 1.2kg/watt! They also have lifting handles front and rear, but I wouldn't want to lift/place them off the floor.
Next time you are out, look for a muscular builder and say in your best Mae West voice "do you want to come on up and listen to my hi-fi?". Failing that, as a sailing woman, commandeer a local friendly 'deck gorilla'. ;)
:eek::eek::D
Now I'm sure I can get a nice 'muscular builder' here in Portsmouth... Portsmouth is full of the 'white van man' I do have a friend that'd fit that bill actually....... but a 'deck gorilla' might be more difficult..
Can I ask if you've heard the 383 and if so what you thought ??
I'll look up the ML-2's.... what age are they ??
Mine go way back to 1977, though they were acquired somewhat more recently - within the last 10 years. I have three ML preamps and a phono stage to go with them - so yes you could say I'm a bit of a Mark Levinson fan.
I have heard more recent ML designs (sporting three-digit model numbers) at various hi-fi shows but I can't remember the exact models. I think all ML amps can drive just about anything so you ought have no problem. :)
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 21:16
Mine go way back to 1977, though they were acquired somewhat more recently - within the last 10 years. I have three ML preamps and a phono stage to go with them - so yes you could say I'm a bit of a Mark Levinson fan.
I have heard more recent ML designs (sporting three-digit model numbers) at various hi-fi shows but I can't remember the exact models. I think all ML amps can drive just about anything so you ought have no problem. :)
Nice Barry...
Yes I definitely thought that the 383 might 'drive' the Maggies properly...
We will see and I will definitely report my thoughts about the ML and the Maggies....
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 22:00
I'm having to re-do my nail varnish after stabbing myself with the screwdriver... nightmare... :eyebrows:
Ninanina
07-04-2019, 22:38
I am already thinking of 'upgrading' my Naim CD5XS and Naim Dac to the ML 390S ...
There are a couple of dealers that have a 390S available....
So tempting.... but I don't know whether to purchase yet...
This is a nightmare....
Ninanina
08-04-2019, 00:13
Thumb is not so poorly now...it's stopped bleeding and looks like healing ok.....
hifi_dave
08-04-2019, 09:08
That's super thanks Dave for the info
I've just finished soldering the Nakamichi spade's to the Van Damme Black speaker cable, well once my Portasol decided to worked properly that is... I also managed to put a small screwdriver through my thumb... don't ask :doh:..... ouchy, very ouchy.. but the cable is all shrink wrapped up and ready to go
I believe ML used CZ GEL-2 cable for interconnects and there is someone on eBay that has it, NOS:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232375757545?_trksid=p2380057.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI232375757545.N36.S1.R1.TR2
So I might be tempted to use that and get someone to terminate some RCA's for me
I will also take a look at the Atlas cables
Of course, if I like the ML, then I will also improve the speaker cable but I'll use the Van Damme Black initially as well as borrowing the Mark Grant interconnects from Colin..
Dave do you know if the Furukawa cable/s are still available as I have a liking for anything Japanese...
CZ Gel is not easy to work with and really designed to be used with XLR plugs. You can use Phono plugs but they need to be robust.
Furukawa was/is an enormous company making cables anything from power stations to Hi-Fi. I would imagine they are still going but I don't believe they are imported anymore.
Spectral Morn
08-04-2019, 11:24
CZ Gel is not easy to work with and really designed to be used with XLR plugs. You can use Phono plugs but they need to be robust.
Furukawa was/is an enormous company making cables anything from power stations to Hi-Fi. I would imagine they are still going but I don't believe they are imported anymore.
John Carrick was the importer, he went on to found Atlas, so in terms of lineage Atlas would be the contemporary choice.
Regarding speakers the 383 was often used with Revel speakers.
hifi_dave
08-04-2019, 14:04
Exactly so. John originally came to me to sell Yfere cables but when I put them up against my old Furukawa ( which I had imported myself) it was no contest, so John decided to distribute Furukawa instead.
Ninanina
09-04-2019, 17:31
All being well the ML should be with me tomorrow..... ;)
What about Furutech cables? I believe they use Furukawa in their construction
All being well the ML should be with me tomorrow..... ;)
What about Furutech cables? I believe they use Furukawa in their constructionFurutech cable is good stuff. I use it.
Ninanina
09-04-2019, 18:57
Can you give me any pointers Justin? Which ones do you use and where did you purchase from?
Am I right about them being Japanese?
PM me Bev. Can't reply now.
hifi_dave
10-04-2019, 09:24
All being well the ML should be with me tomorrow..... ;)
What about Furutech cables? I believe they use Furukawa in their construction
They do as do Atlas, which are quite reasonably priced.
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 00:39
They do as do Atlas, which are quite reasonably priced.
Great thanks Dave, I didn't know Atlas use Furukawa so I can see why you recommended it
I've been reading a bit about Atlas and thought something like the Hyper Integra 2 RCA might fit the bill without spending a small fortune or maybe the Hyper DD and speaker cable maybe Hyper 3.5 which is reasonably priced then it's a huge jump to the next level up to the Ascent 3.5 Grun...
I'm in no real rush but I'm sure Colin will want his RCA back soon' ish
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 17:31
Well the ML has been started up
I left it a little while to warm up a bit before having a listen
Gosh...... :)
It's a cut above then is it?
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 18:06
It's a cut above then is it?
Well it's sounding very good so far Martin....
It sounds really nothing like the Naim. Like anything new I'm sure it will take a while to get a handle on the sound though
I've moved the Maggies out into the room a bit more which I've not done before, they are light enough for that. I thought I'd give the ML a good run that way
I have to say it's build quality is amazing, it's like it was built from a solid piece of metal and the remote control is a work of art being aluminium and it's heavy
I've given both a very good look over and I'd describe it pretty much new looking as well which is nice..
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 18:14
A quick thing I do notice is it gives the impression it's not 'trying' with the Maggies.. don't know if that makes sense..
It's like it's only just getting into it's stride driving them.... it has a certain 'ease' about it...
I'm really rubbish at explaining things.... :doh:
walpurgis
11-04-2019, 18:15
It sounds really nothing like the Naim.
Not surprising really Bev. Can't see you going back.
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 18:18
Not surprising really Bev. Can't see you going back.
Well I really did like the SN2 but the ML is sounding very nice at the moment Geoff. It's not at all harsh sounding either but kind of crystal clear at the same time...
Sherwood
11-04-2019, 18:19
A quick thing I do notice is it gives the impression it's not 'trying' with the Maggies.. don't know if that makes sense..
It's like it's only just getting into it's stride driving them.... it has a certain 'ease' about it...
I'm really rubbish at explaining things.... :doh:
Your Nait was probably trying too hard! I doubt it has anywhere near the current delivery capacity into the low impedance load that the Maggies present! The ML specs suggest it is much more capable in this respect.
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 18:22
Your Nait was probably trying too hard! I doubt it has anywhere near the current delivery capacity into the low impedance load that the Maggies present! The ML specs suggest it is much more capable in this respect.
You are the expert there Geoff..
Certainly the ML seems very happy with the Maggies at the moment...
Firebottle
11-04-2019, 18:42
A quick thing I do notice is it gives the impression it's not 'trying' with the Maggies.. don't know if that makes sense..
It's like it's only just getting into it's stride driving them.... it has a certain 'ease' about it...
I'm really rubbish at explaining things.... :doh:
That's a good description Bev, it shows you are hearing the sound fully. Now that isn't a very 'descriptive' explanation but I know just what you mean.
I have had Maggies as well.
Good your enjoying it. Levinson gear is top notch
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 18:47
That's a good description Bev, it shows you are hearing the sound fully. Now that isn't a very 'descriptive' explanation but I know just what you mean.
I have had Maggies as well.
Blimey Alan thanks I'm glad that made sense to you... it was the best I could explain...
I'm now hearing a bit 'more' into the sound of the ML and It's definitely extracting more detail than the SN2, it's quite apparent to me now after listening for a while.... I love the clear sound and the non harshness of it as well
Like all these things I will 'live' with the ML for many weeks/months before I decide what to do with it but initial signs are very good indeed...
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 18:52
Good your enjoying it. Levinson gear is top notch
Well Grant sometimes I think people get all misty eyed about so called 'high end' stuff, like ML supposedly, but luckily I've never been that swayed by such things
However I like what I hear so far, very much actually ;)
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 18:57
I actually think the ML was super value for money Grant..
If I ever come sell the SN2, plus it's DR power supply, it will more than pay for the ML no problem and probably have a little extra cash as well... bargain.... ;)
Naim stuff is expensive tho. Not tried either tho
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 19:12
Naim stuff is expensive tho. Not tried either tho
I've had a full Naim system for over 2 years now and I've loved it but, as other peeps have said, it's maybe not ideal for driving Maggies
The one thing that I can be certain of never changing are my Maggies.... the 'last' speaker I will ever need/want... they are that good... to me anyway...
So any changes were going to be amps etc
Bigman80
11-04-2019, 19:17
These powerful type amps do deliver silky smooth power and that's why they don't sound harsh or strained.
They have plenty in reserve and those maggies will sing because of that. Its effortlessly delivered and should provide many, many hours of fatigue free listening, which is what the Krell does here.
Smooth doesn't mean pipe and slippers, and it doesn't mean it isn't exciting. It doesn't mean a lack of transparency either. They have dynamic swing, the likes of which, other amplifiers can only dream of. They have weight and punch but best if all, IMO, is the ability to completely grip the speaker and hold it in a vice like grip in a velvet glove.
I think you've bought well. Enjoy!
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 19:29
These powerful type amps do deliver silky smooth power and that's why they don't sound harsh or strained.
They have plenty in reserve and those maggies will sing because of that. Its effortlessly delivered and should provide many, many hours of fatigue free listening, which is what the Krell does here.
Smooth doesn't mean pipe and slippers, and it doesn't mean it isn't exciting. It doesn't mean a lack of transparency either. They have dynamic swing, the likes of which, other amplifiers can only dream of. They have weight and punch but best if all, IMO, is the ability to completely grip the speaker and hold it in a vice like grip in a velvet glove.
I think you've bought well. Enjoy!
Well it's a complete departure for me Oliver... having used 8-10 watts of SET amps into sensitive speakers for years and now onto the tricky to drive Maggies and loads of watts... I've gone full circle... ;)
Definitely the smooth sound I am hearing with the ML is not "pipe and slippers" and I'm certainly finding the sound exciting but not to the degree of sounding edgy if that makes sense...
I think your description about these type of amps gripping the speakers is how I would describe the ML with the Maggies... and velvet glove I totally 'get'..
I hope the ML will continue to surprise, and delight me, driving the Maggies.... we will see
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 21:20
As I have just lovely neighbours I am now listening at low levels... the ML doesn't seem to mind that though.... and it's still sounding good...
walpurgis
11-04-2019, 21:26
As I have just lovely neighbours I am now listening at low levels... the ML doesn't seem to mind that though.... and it's still sounding good...
If I want to cheer the neighbours up, I just bung some military brass band marching music on with about fifty watts going through the big Tannoys. Sure makes the doors and windows rattle!! :D
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 21:29
If I want to cheer the neighbours up, I just bung some military brass band marching music on with about fifty watts going through the big Tannoys. Sure makes the doors and windows rattle!! :D
I don't have any brass band stuff though... not quite my thing I guess...
I just love my neighbour and I'd do nothing to upset her.... love her to bits...
When I know my neighbours are not in I will definitely turn the ML up a bit...
I've had an admiration for ML stuff for years but never been able to afford it. They seem to be sort of parallel with Krell in massive build, but perhaps more so, very well spec'd, and highly regarded, and I've read some of the analysis of the design and it seems very thorough.
I've heard the benefits of having masses of power and high peak current capability many times, and IMO these qualities do provide grip and effortlessness.
The only experience I have had with Naim, other than my NAT1 which I use for headphones was using a NAT 250 to drive Martin Logan CLS 2s, and it kept cutting out because of the low impedance load, and I thought that the sound was just, OK. I loved the internal wiring neatness though.
I think you could well stay with that powerhouse, not all high end stuff is just hype and BS designed just to extract money.
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 21:54
I've had an admiration for ML stuff for years but never been able to afford it. They seem to be sort of parallel with Krell in massive build, but perhaps more so, very well spec'd, and highly regarded, and I've read some of the analysis of the design and it seems very thorough.
I've heard the benefits of having masses of power and high peak current capability many times, and IMO these qualities do provide grip and effortlessness.
The only experience I have had with Naim, other than my NAT1 which I use for headphones was using a NAT 250 to drive Martin Logan CLS 2s, and they kept cutting out because of the low impedance load, and I thought that the sound was just, OK. I loved the internal wiring neatness though.
I think you could well stay with that powerhouse, not all high end stuff is just hype and BS designed just to extract money.
Well Dennis I've not really had any admiration for ML stuff to be honest but I can honestly say it seems very well built, it's like nothing I've had before and the remote control, which I don't normally use, is all metal and heavy so it certainly gives an impression of quality
As you mention the ML does seem to provide 'grip and effortlessness' driving the Maggies
I think, like Maggies, Martin Logan's can be a tricky speaker to drive properly. I've never had the SN2 actually cut out while driving the Maggies but as many people have commented the Maggies do need a bit of oomph 'up em'....
Whether ML stuff is considered hype or BS to extract dosh from peeps I have no idea and I certainly didn't think about that when making my purchase. The only thing that decided it for me was that the 383 seemed to have enough power to possibly drive the Maggies well and, so far, that seems to be the case
At the moment I am really pleased with my ML purchase.... whether it stays or not remains to be seen...:)
Bigman80
11-04-2019, 21:58
Well it's a complete departure for me Oliver... having used 8-10 watts of SET amps into sensitive speakers for years and now onto the tricky to drive Maggies and loads of watts... I've gone full circle... ;)
Definitely the smooth sound I am hearing with the ML is not "pipe and slippers" and I'm certainly finding the sound exciting but not to the degree of sounding edgy if that makes sense...
I think your description about these type of amps gripping the speakers is how I would describe the ML with the Maggies... and velvet glove I totally 'get'..
I hope the ML will continue to surprise, and delight me, driving the Maggies.... we will seeEgde or harshness is a distinct sign that it won't last in my system. The grain that is so often attributed to the SS amp is certainly not a factor via the Krell and seems ML has that licked too.
Fluidity and flow
That's how I describe these types of amp that I've heard. Just nothing bad about them, apart from the size of them and their demands on the National Grid.
That said, if you can somehow fit one in, and can spend a very few extra quid a year on electricity, I'd recommend them to anyone.
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
walpurgis
11-04-2019, 22:02
I don't have any brass band stuff though...
No do I really. Guess a bit of Hawkwind might do. :)
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 22:46
Egde or harshness is a distinct sign that it won't last in my system. The grain that is so often attributed to the SS amp is certainly not a factor via the Krell and seems ML has that licked too.
Fluidity and flow
That's how I describe these types of amp that I've heard. Just nothing bad about them, apart from the size of them and their demands on the National Grid.
That said, if you can somehow fit one in, and can spend a very few extra quid a year on electricity, I'd recommend them to anyone.
Sent from my VKY-L09 using Tapatalk
Thanks Oliver... as you say any 'edge or harshness' just won't cut it with me... especially coming from SET valve amps that have none of that sort of thing in their sound
Fluidity and flow definitely would describe the ML sound I have
I'm really not that worried about giving SSE a little extra dosh for running the ML as I'm sure it's peanuts really..
The ML is certainly a big and heavy brute but actually that's not how it sounds and it's fitted in perfectly so far
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 22:48
No do I really. Guess a bit of Hawkwind might do. :)
I don't own any Hawkwind stuff...
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 23:05
I'm listening very quietly now but the sound of the ML is still coming through the Maggies... it's just nice and smooth and lovely..
Will I now sell the Naim? well time will tell I think...
Ninanina
11-04-2019, 23:21
Now got some Diana Krall on quite low but it's sounding lovely...
Egde or harshness is a distinct sign that it won't last in my system. The grain that is so often attributed to the SS amp is certainly not a factor via the Krell and seems ML has that licked too.
Fluidity and flow
That's how I describe these types of amp that I've heard. Just nothing bad about them, apart from the size of them and their demands on the National Grid.
That said, if you can somehow fit one in, and can spend a very few extra quid a year on electricity, I'd recommend them to anyone.
Sent from my VKY-L09 using TapatalkThat's because attributing grain or harshness to SS is as much goolies as saying that valves have smoothness. Utter goolies.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Pigmy Pony
12-04-2019, 06:18
I see that most of your posts here end with "we shall see", "time will tell", etc., but I have a feeling the ML may be a keeper... I say this not from experience (of which I have none) but your descriptions of its performance (effortless, smooth, velvet glove) bode well for its future IMO, much more than if you were using words like "detailed" and "revealing".
I once heard someone advise that it's best to avoid speakers that immediately impress, they are the ones most likely to get on your wick after a time. No doubt this would apply to pretty much everything.
Is it a bit of a beast? We could do with pics of it with you stood next to it, to give an idea of scale. In your new jeans :D
jandl100
12-04-2019, 06:32
I've not [yet] had any Mark Levinson amps but I have owned a 36, 37 and 39.
... a DAC, CD transport and integrated CD player.
The build quality on all 3 was nothing short of superb.
The sound quality was smooth but well detailed and well organised. I've had more transparent gear, but it was pretty good in that respect and the sound had a 'sophistication' to it that is hard to describe but was very enjoyable.
I kept the ML gear far longer than is usual for me.
... come to think of it, the 39 CDP had a volume/preamp capability as well, so I guess I have owned some ML amp gear.
Firebottle
12-04-2019, 08:28
We could do with pics of it with you stood next to it, to give an idea of scale. In your new jeans :D
We just need to keep chipping away Steve, otherwise it will never happen. :thumbsup:
And then you hook a good valve amp in and everything changes...:)
In my opinion a good example from both camps is almost mandatory if you can manage it.
One is the antidote to the other.
The relaxed ease that some of these amps deliver is not entirely natural. The Luxman does it too.
When you listen to live music this sense of relaxed ease is almost never present.
Just saying cos it is true I think.
Glad you like it so far Bev. I will answer that PM over the weekend.
jandl100
12-04-2019, 08:50
I hate to agree with Justin --- but "relaxed ease" especially when combined with "smooth" -- typical class A tranny amp sound in my book. Sends me off to sleep. Real music doesn't sound like that, imo.
I hate to agree with Justin --- but "relaxed ease" especially when combined with "smooth" -- typical class A tranny amp sound in my book. Sends me off to sleep. Real music doesn't sound like that, imo.The Lux is worth a listen, though. It isn't boring somehow. I trusted the Stereophile Fremer review on that.
You might not agree we'll see when you come over.
jandl100
12-04-2019, 09:23
I don't think I've ever seen the word smooth used so much as in that Fremer review. :lol: put me right orf, it did!
Usually it takes me a few hours to realise that I'm just not taking much notice of the music any more with ss class A - so a brief visit may not sway me one way or the other.
Will have a look and see when I can come over.
A guy came over to let me listen to a piece of gear he was selling.
"You'll love it" he said "Really smooth".
I hated it. :D
hifi_dave
12-04-2019, 09:46
"Smooth" often equates to dull but the two aren't the same at all.
The Lux is worth a listen, though. It isn't boring somehow. I trusted the Stereophile Fremer review on that.
.
Christ that was brave!
I don't think I've ever seen the word smooth used so much as in that Fremer review. [emoji38] put me right orf, it did!
Usually it takes me a few hours to realise that I'm just not taking much notice of the music any more with ss class A - so a brief visit may not sway me one way or the other.
Will have a look and see when I can come over.
A guy came over to let me listen to a piece of gear he was selling.
"You'll love it" he said "Really smooth".
I hated it. :DI'd bring it over for MBLness but it's just too friggin' heavy.
Anyway, back to the ML....
Christ that was brave!True.
I kept bumping into him at Munich last year. However, I did not communicate with him.
Best, I thought;)
walpurgis
12-04-2019, 09:57
Christ that was brave!
I tend to like what Michael Fremer has to say. Not read anything by him for a long time though.
jandl100
12-04-2019, 10:06
"Smooth" often equates to dull but the two aren't the same at all.
Well, they can be.
I think there are two types of smooth - tonal (where the top is rolled off, which I also don't like) and dynamic (where subtle changes in level are, well, smoothed over and the music becomes laidback, less immediate, like you are hearing it from the back of a concert hall rather than nearer the stage).
It's the dynamic smoothness that I am referring to in this thread.
Pigmy Pony
12-04-2019, 15:11
We just need to keep chipping away Steve, otherwise it will never happen. :thumbsup:
I'm just waiting for the injunction, prohibiting me from going within 50 metres of a keyboard...
Pigmy Pony
12-04-2019, 15:24
I hate to agree with Justin --- but "relaxed ease" especially when combined with "smooth" -- typical class A tranny amp sound in my book. Sends me off to sleep. Real music doesn't sound like that, imo.
The logical assumption is that we are striving for our hi fi to make the music sound "real", but in my case I'm not so sure any more. I'm thinking that if I enjoy the music coming from my speakers, then sod "realism", whatever that may be! As stated on another thread (started by Gaz yesterday), live music isn't all that, most of the time.
I'm just waiting for the injunction, prohibiting me from going within 50 metres of a keyboard...Ladies don't show themselves on fora, [emoji3526]
Pigmy Pony
12-04-2019, 15:43
Ladies don't show themselves on fora, [emoji3526]
I did not know that, but it does make perfect sense. I for one won't post pics, as my big gay following are a pretty rabid bunch and really don't need any encouragement.
I suppose I could post that pic of Marco in prison and pass it off as me - maybe then they'll lose interest :D
I tend to like what Michael Fremer has to say. Not read anything by him for a long time though.I have to say I consider his review to be good given the constraints verbal descriptions have. It seems really quite accurate to be fair to him.
It is a top amp no question. Whether you like this particular kind of top is another question.
It is a top amp no question. Whether you like this particular kind of top is another question.
That is expertly put Justin, you summed up the Luxman class A sound very well there, I have to agree. For some that would be a destination amp and I can understand why.
Think I personally would prefer the ML, so each to their own.
Any photos of the amp Bev?
Yeah pics or you haven't got one.
That's a threat, Bev. No pics or we're gonna kill you.
Lol.:)
That is expertly put Justin, you summed up the Luxman class A sound very well there, I have to agree. For some that would be a destination amp and I can understand why.
Think I personally would prefer the ML, so each to their own.
Any photos of the amp Bev?Well if I want to get my ears excited those Accuphase monos totally do that. You should have seen the state Jerry was in after Dream Theatre at 11 on those.;)
Well if I want to get my ears excited those Accuphase monos totally do that. You should have seen the state Jerry was in after Dream Theatre at 11 on those.;)
:lolsign:
What's the spec on those monos Justin?
Not much on the web that I can see.
[emoji38]sign:
What's the spec on those monos Justin?
Not much on the web that I can see.About half a Kilowatt into 4 Ohms. Accuphase claimed about 450 but they do more or less depending on your measurement criterion.
Go to the Accuphase website. The origianal spec is on there in the historical section.
Thanks, just read that. Those look excellent.
For those interested http://accuphase.com/cat/m-60en.pdf
jandl100
12-04-2019, 20:46
Those Accuphase monos are just plain scary. :wowzer::wow::hairmetal::exactly:
cyclopse
12-04-2019, 21:12
Those Accuphase monos are just plain scary. :wowzer::wow::hairmetal::exactly:
Particularly in Justin’s hands.
How are you getting on with the Mark Levinson now that you've had a bit of time with it Bev?
Ninanina
17-04-2019, 19:55
I love the ML John.... and for those that have asked, here is a pic of it... sorry about the untidy wires... :doh:
http://i.imgur.com/JTEWqPF.jpg (https://imgur.com/JTEWqPF)
jandl100
17-04-2019, 19:57
Awesome! :stalks:
Oh, that IS lovely! Drool etc.....
Really like the look of that Bev, bet it sounds good too.
Ninanina
17-04-2019, 20:01
Thanks to all...
I think it's a work of art, it's so well put together and it sounds super too... ;)
Ninanina
17-04-2019, 20:16
I've kinda decided that actually the ML doesn't really have a 'sound' of it's own if that makes any sense to anyone...
It just sort of gets on with it's task...
Does that make any sense ?
As I've said before I'm not very good at describing 'sound'... that's the best I can do at the moment though.. ;)
For those that are drooling, don't.... as it'll only make you damp... :lol:
Pretty amp. Sell naim and you'll be quids in lol
Ninanina
17-04-2019, 20:22
Pretty amp. Sell naim and you'll be quids in lol
As with anything new Grant I will always give it some time... I will 'live' with the ML for a few weeks/months before deciding whether it's a 'keeper' or not...
However, at the moment, I do think the ML will be staying put and therefore I will sell the SN2 + Hi Cap which will more than pay for the ML... bargain I reckon... ;)
Ninanina
17-04-2019, 20:50
They do as do Atlas, which are quite reasonably priced.
I've decided to make my own RCA and speaker cable and have purchased a load of stuff to help me... new Antex iron etc etc....
I will only use Furutech cable for both RCA & Speaker cable..
I just need to decide what bulk cable to purchase... but I might buy this for the RCA cable:
http://www.furutech.com/2016/05/19/13053/
It's Furutech's top interconnect cable and it's not too expensive to buy bulk...
I've been practicing my solder skills and I 'think' I'm ok at it
I've not yet decided on the RCA plugs but they will also be by Furutech..
Will be using Cardas Quad solder ..
I struggle to see the end of my bolt these days[emoji848][emoji23]
Ninanina
17-04-2019, 21:11
I struggle to see the end of my bolt these days[emoji848][emoji23]
Absolutely Grant .... :rfl:
That ML looks a beast, and yes, characterless is what a good amp should be like, just getting on with its work without apparent effort.
Ninanina
20-04-2019, 18:33
That ML looks a beast, and yes, characterless is what a good amp should be like, just getting on with its work without apparent effort.
It really is a 'beast' Dennis... so heavy and solidly built... I thought the Naim stuff was well built but the ML takes it to another level...
I've got the ML playing at the moment and, absolutely, it's just working without any 'apparent effort' as you suggest
Love it so far...
Ninanina
20-04-2019, 20:01
It's funny but I've always expected an amp to sound sort of what it looks like... if you know what I mean...
However the ML doesn't sound anything like it looks like.... It looks sort of brutish but that's not what it sounds like at all..
It's definitely a silky and effortless sort of sound somehow...
Don't know if that makes any sense at all...
In my opinion the cosmetics of the current Mark Levinson gear look stylish, understated and elegant. I would expect the abilities of the amp to be one of effortless capacity to simply relay the music without errors of either commission or omission.
walpurgis
20-04-2019, 20:10
It's funny but I've always expected an amp to sound sort of what it looks like... if you know what I mean...
However the ML doesn't sound anything like it looks like.... It looks sort of brutish but that's not what it sounds like at all..
It's definitely a silky and effortless sort of sound somehow...
Don't know if that makes any sense at all...
Knowing what ML gear tends to sound like, I understand what you mean Bev.
(you should hear ML CD players, they're amazing)
Knowing what ML gear tends to sound like, I understand what you mean Bev.
(you should hear ML CD players, they're amazing)
I've been flirting with getting one for sometime now. Reports of problems occurring due to the very shallow disc tray have tempered my enthusiasm though.
Ninanina
20-04-2019, 20:46
In my opinion the cosmetics of the current Mark Levinson gear look stylish, understated and elegant. I would expect the abilities of the amp to be one of effortless capacity to simply relay the music without errors of either commission or omission.
Thanks Barry...
Stylish, understated and elegant, well I don't know about that.... to be honest I think the ML just looks brutish compared to anything else I've owned... but certainly effortless I can agree with :)
Ninanina
20-04-2019, 20:49
Knowing what ML gear tends to sound like, I understand what you mean Bev.
(you should hear ML CD players, they're amazing)
The only previous experience I had of ML gear was the huge mono's which did nothing for me at all...
BUT...'living' with the ML is another thing altogether
I just love it's sound, or no sound, to be honest
I am certainly tempted with a ML cd player...
I've decided to make my own RCA and speaker cable and have purchased a load of stuff to help me... new Antex iron etc etc....
I will only use Furutech cable for both RCA & Speaker cable..
Have you abandoned the SLIC cables Bev?
Ninanina
20-04-2019, 21:05
Have you abandoned the SLIC cables Bev?
The SLIC's were sold long ago Barry... when I got an all Naim system they were of no use to me..
However I am sure I can make a nice interconnect myself, which I look forward to doing.... as well as a nice speaker cable for the ML :)
Ah - I didn't know that.
I make up virtually all of my own cables. This is for various reasons: my system used a range of different connector types, but mostly because I like to have complete control on the choice of cable and of construction. I should also add that I see no reason why any interconnect, complete with connectors, need cost more than £30 - £40 for a stereo pair.
Ninanina
20-04-2019, 21:38
Ah - I didn't know that.
I make up virtually all of my own cables. This is for various reasons: my system used a range of different connector types, but mostly because I like to have complete control on the choice of cable and of construction. I should also add that I see no reason why any interconnect, complete with connectors, need cost more than £30 - £40 for a stereo pair.
Yes the SLIC went long ago...
I will definitely, for the first time, be making my own interconnects and speaker cable and it will be cable and connectors by Furutech...
Ninanina
20-04-2019, 21:43
So for those that have had experience of an ML CD player... can I ask for more info ?
I'm very tempted to get an ML 390s..
Ninanina
21-04-2019, 01:38
I've just made an offer on a 390 so time will tell... :D
I think what may have happened to you, is what happens to me sometimes.
Amid all the changing and scrutinising of new equipment, where we are never sure, and that it may be 'just different', sometimes there is a really shocking, unexpected and substantial change.
Our response can be; 'Hey what's going on here?', and you know that something substantial has happened, this reinforced by insights into the material with longer listening, and to material we are familiar with. Then perhaps you look at the equipment and its build, and think, 'Yes they've really applied themselves and worked at it here, this really is a move forward'.
When this happens it is a keeper for me.
Your experience of the ML amp maybe giving you an insight into ML's philosophy and integrity, (though I don't know), a no bells and whistles approach to the task of design.
hifi_dave
21-04-2019, 10:51
I've just made an offer on a 390 so time will tell... :D
If you are getting a 390, you will need balanced cables, not phono.
Ninanina
22-04-2019, 18:16
Thanks for the advice Dave, yes I did wonder that.. :)
Ninanina
22-04-2019, 20:38
I'm trying to think of a reason why the ML won't be staying put and I can't think of one at the moment to be honest...
As other's have mentioned I was completely underwhelmed by the ML mono's I heard years ago, but, 'living' with this ML is another thing altogether.. does it sound 'impressive' ? actually no it doesn't..... but do I like what it does? oh yes very much...
Just effortless is how I'd describe the ML at the moment and I think it quite likes driving the Maggies too...
I've left the Maggies pulled further out into the room and they are sounding so much better for it...
walpurgis
22-04-2019, 20:44
You could have bought a nice Harley for the dosh you've spent on Hi-Fi lately Bev. :)
Ninanina
22-04-2019, 20:48
You could have bought a nice Harley for the dosh you've spent on Hi-Fi lately Bev. :)
Now it's funny you should mention that Geoff as I've been thinking of getting another bike for the summer.... maybe not a Harley but something swift....:eek:
It's only money and you can't take it with you.... :lol:
Mind you if I sell the Naim stuff that'll more than pay for any recent buys...
Ninanina
22-04-2019, 21:23
I think what may have happened to you, is what happens to me sometimes.
Amid all the changing and scrutinising of new equipment, where we are never sure, and that it may be 'just different', sometimes there is a really shocking, unexpected and substantial change.
Our response can be; 'Hey what's going on here?', and you know that something substantial has happened, this reinforced by insights into the material with longer listening, and to material we are familiar with. Then perhaps you look at the equipment and its build, and think, 'Yes they've really applied themselves and worked at it here, this really is a move forward'.
When this happens it is a keeper for me.
Your experience of the ML amp maybe giving you an insight into ML's philosophy and integrity, (though I don't know), a no bells and whistles approach to the task of design.
I reckon you might be onto something there Dennis ;)
However I've not actually scrutinised the 'new equipment' as I've just left it to sort of do it's thing and appreciate what it's doing, if that makes sense... is it different than the Naim 'sound'? absolutely it is ... and I've been listening to both material I am very familiar with and stuff I don't normally play
Certainly, as you say, if I look at the new equipment and its build I do, indeed, think they have "really applied themselves and worked at it here, this really is a move forward"... certainly the ML seems to have bullet proof build quality the likes of which I've never seen before now
Whether the ML is giving me "an insight into ML's philosophy and integrity" I have no idea but I'm certainly enjoying it very much...
As you say, I think it's enough positive stuff for the ML to stay with me...
What I had in mind was that with a move forward, initially one can be underwhelmed, perhaps because there seems to be no exciting change. But, it is the self effacing nature, the things that it does not do, which are the can be move forward.
Ninanina
23-04-2019, 00:06
What I had in mind was that with a move forward, initially one can be underwhelmed, perhaps because there seems to be no exciting change. But, it is the self effacing nature, the things that it does not do, which are the can be move forward.
Yes I totally agree with that Dennis... and certainly I'm finding that the ML does nothing 'bad'... quite the opposite to be honest...
I love the ML so far...
Ninanina
28-04-2019, 17:25
It's strange the ML seems to be warmer towards it's rear but looking at internal pics the transformers are near the front of the unit... I hope this is 'normal'...
The ML doesn't get hot but certainly nice and warm after a couple of hours use...
Pigmy Pony
28-04-2019, 17:45
Little known fact: Mark Levinson originally worked as a bassist for several jazz groups. When he met jazz pianist Paul Bley for an audition, Bley asked him "Are you Levinson?" ML replied "No, I only just got here!"
Sorry about that, I don't post much on Sundays due to hangoverness :(
Ninanina
28-04-2019, 18:25
Little known fact: Mark Levinson originally worked as a bassist for several jazz groups. When he met jazz pianist Paul Bley for an audition, Bley asked him "Are you Levinson?" ML replied "No, I only just got here!"
Sorry about that, I don't post much on Sundays due to hangoverness :(
:rfl:
You always crack me up Steve...
Bev, if you don't mind that slight familiarity, most of the power with an amp will be dissipated in the output transistor pairs and their heatsinks, and ideally very little in the mains transformer because it is designed to be efficient.
The maximum theoretical efficiency of Cass A output amps is about 45%, so half wasted, and 78.5% for class B ones.
Hence with class A, a lot of heat from the heatsinks.
Ninanina
29-04-2019, 00:01
Bev, if you don't mind that slight familiarity, most of the power with an amp will be dissipated in the output transistor pairs and their heatsinks, and ideally very little in the mains transformer because it is designed to be efficient.
The maximum theoretical efficiency of Cass A output amps is about 45%, so half wasted, and 78.5% for class B ones.
Hence with class A, a lot of heat from the heatsinks.
That makes sense Dennis... thanks... certainly the transformers are not getting that warm at all...
I've also 'felt' the heatsinks (or fins if you will!) and they are not that warm. It just seems to be near the rear of the ML that is getting a little warmer than the rest of the unit
Ninanina
03-05-2019, 00:24
The ML is proving to be a great 'late night' listen... is seems to have all the dynamics even at low volums... which is nice...
I'm pleased that you are happy, and as an additional comment regarding amplifier sound, I would bet that yours, in comparison with a Krell, a Benchmark, and an ATC SPA2 would probably be indistinguishable.
The ML is proving to be a great 'late night' listen... is seems to have all the dynamics even at low volums... which is nice...
Ah the 'late night listening test'. It is always a good test of any system to see how quietly one can listen to it, without loosing dynamics, clarity and soundstaging.
Ninanina
03-05-2019, 16:49
I'm pleased that you are happy, and as an additional comment regarding amplifier sound, I would bet that yours, in comparison with a Krell, a Benchmark, and an ATC SPA2 would probably be indistinguishable.
I certainly am very happy with the ML Dennis
I've never heard a Krell, Benchmark or ATC amp so I cannot comment on how they would sound against the ML
Ninanina
03-05-2019, 16:51
Ah the 'late night listening test'. It is always a good test of any system to see how quietly one can listen to it, without loosing dynamics, clarity and soundstaging.
I think you're right there Barry and I was listening very quietly last night and all was well with the sound, to my ears anyway
I certainly am very happy with the ML Dennis
I've never heard a Krell, Benchmark or ATC amp so I cannot comment on how they would sound against the ML
I've not heard your particular ML but everything you've said about its sound so far is what I would also say about the Krells I've heard.
In another thread early Krell amps were likened to SET valve amps.
Ninanina, have your heard any valve amps that you might compare the ML to?
In another thread early Krell amps were likened to SET valve amps.
Ninanina, have your heard any valve amps that you might compare the ML to?What? By someone who's deaf?
Never heard such poo poo.
Ninanina
04-05-2019, 17:30
Ninanina, have your heard any valve amps that you might compare the ML to?
Actually no I haven't but I've not heard a ss amp that compares to the ML sound either, they are all different
What? By someone who's deaf?
Never heard such poo poo.Well they are both class a
Well they are both class aHave you ever heard a Krell KSA 50?
Absolutely unlike ANYTHING approaching any valve amp I have ever heard.
I appreciate I was abrupt but it's total codswallop.
Wasn't me who said they sounded the same
Wasn't me who said they sounded the sameNope.
Suggested why you thought they could do, though.
Take 40 lashes.:D
Nope.
Suggested why you thought they could do, though.
Take 40 lashes.:DNope. I just stated a fact. Ner
I've got 3 class A amps here, one valve, two solid state and none of them sound alike.
I've got 3 class A amps here, one valve, two solid state and none of them sound alike.Sanity.
Check out post #152.
Insanity.
Big smile.
A Krell, or ML, may have some qualities shared with a single ended tube amp. The smoothness is the top, or air around instruments? Similar, I won’t say they are identical. But those similarities end when the bass drum kicks, and the Solid State class A amps kick you in the seat of your pants! Class A amps are such an expensive endeavor, all parts must be overkill, it consumes terrible amounts of power, and runs hot. They are most inefficient and not cost effective, but they are totally worth it! They make and sell these amps for a reason, because they are worth it. This my own humble opinion of course, for what it’s worth.
Good luck with the Levinson, a fine amp indeed!
Russell
Ninanina
06-05-2019, 00:14
A Krell, or ML, may have some qualities shared with a single ended tube amp. The smoothness is the top, or air around instruments? Similar, I won’t say they are identical. But those similarities end when the bass drum kicks, and the Solid State class A amps kick you in the seat of your pants! Class A amps are such an expensive endeavor, all parts must be overkill, it consumes terrible amounts of power, and runs hot. They are most inefficient and not cost effective, but they are totally worth it! They make and sell these amps for a reason, because they are worth it. This my own humble opinion of course, for what it’s worth.
Good luck with the Levinson, a fine amp indeed!
Russell
Thanks Russell I do indeed think it's a 'fine amp indeed'... so far I can't fault it...
I think it will be a keeper.
Thanks Russell I do indeed think it's a 'fine amp indeed'... so far I can't fault it...Can't let you get away with that, Bev. There's something that can be criticised with everything. Every amp has a quirk or personality.
Fess up. It may take another month to really nail it but there will be a quality that isn't so appealing.
It's hi-fi and getting everything is impossible.
Of course Justin, and that applies to all in life, but we still look for the best, and are pleased with a 'breakthrough', and in food and cars etc.
For me, in the end I get fed up with trying to get the last available 0.00000001%, and usually for a lot of money - diminishing returns.
I would also buy all organic food if I could afford it.
I'm sure she's really pleased with it.
Cost isn't everything and the synergy my cheap Xiang Sheng DAC has just shown with the Luxman M-800a for the past few hours has been a real eyebrow raiser!
In terms of out right impressiveness in certain parameters it doesn't quite make it but in terms of overall balance it's a great match. Sounds mad but it is true. To my ears anyway.
Yup if you get the xs in a suitable system it's bloody good
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 18:55
Can't let you get away with that, Bev. There's something that can be criticised with everything. Every amp has a quirk or personality.
Fess up. It may take another month to really nail it but there will be a quality that isn't so appealing.
It's hi-fi and getting everything is impossible.
:rfl: Indeed Justin...
However at the moment I can't criticise the sound of the ML... I know, I know that's not what you want to hear but really I can't think of anything I don't like about it's sound..
If I have to criticise anything about the ML it would be that I don't believe you should leave it switched on 24/7, like the Naim gear, so it needs a little while to warm up and come on song I guess... but that's about it at the moment.. sorry :lol:
As you say though it may well take a month or so to really get a handle on the ML's sound and then, maybe, I would have something more to say about it's sound
I will, of course, report back with any further thoughts about it
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 19:09
I've been a really naughty girl today and purchased an ML 390s cd player... :doh:
It's going to be delivered in the next few days
To be honest I think what I paid for it was a complete bargain if the reviews are anything to go by... we will see, as I don't always believe reviews
It's quite heavy at 23kg (shipping weight)... I've no idea what the 390 weighs by itself but that seems heavy to me for a cd player
Firebottle
08-05-2019, 19:12
I've been a really naughty girl today ....
Good one Bev, hope you enjoy your purchase ;)
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 19:15
Good one Bev, hope you enjoy your purchase ;)
Thanks Alan... I hope it goes well with the 383... ;)
Just wondering if anyone has heard the 390...
I still think it's a bit naughty though... :doh:
:rfl: Indeed Justin...
However at the moment I can't criticise the sound of the ML... I know, I know that's not what you want to hear but really I can't think of anything I don't like about it's sound..
If I have to criticise anything about the ML it would be that I don't believe you should leave it switched on 24/7, like the Naim gear, so it needs a little while to warm up and come on song I guess... but that's about it at the moment.. sorry [emoji38]
As you say though it may well take a month or so to really get a handle on the ML's sound and then, maybe, I would have something more to say about it's sound
I will, of course, report back with any further thoughts about itI think the Luxman is the best solid state amp I have come across on my speakers and I've tried truckloads.
It's a new amp, relatively, so any early conclusions are really dangerous. But I have been glued to it since I got it.
I can think of things it doesn't do that other amps do and vice versa. But it's a great blend of compromises. Very, very cleverly done, in my opinion. Nicely balanced in a very sophisticated way.
So what are its flaws?
Cost to run is higher than usual, it weighs a ton (let's go imperial), it is expensive second hand, it doesn't have the stereo separation of a pair of monoblocks, it never seems to misbehave and it's so polite in its presentation it beggars belief. It genuinely is a nice amp. Too nice? Possibly. But not by much.
The Levinsons I have heard are more upfront and forcefully dynamic. Exciting to listen to. Very much in charge or at least trying to be in charge.
That doesn't stop them from being great, but it is a description of their inherent personality. And as we all know everyone has flaws. No one is beyond criticism.
So I am still not buying it.
But don't worry about it. I am some stranger in cyberspace anyway. Glued to his mobile in a pretty great German bar...:)
Time to communicate with locals.:D
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 19:47
The Levinsons I have heard are more upfront and forcefully dynamic. Exciting to listen to. Very much in charge or at least trying to be in charge.
Glad you are loving the Luxman Justin... nice one...
However I absolutely cannot agree with you about what I'm hearing of the 383's sound... I definitely would not describe the sound of the 383 as upfront and forcefully dynamic or, indeed exciting to listen to.... totally not my experience of the 383's sound at all
It does not sound upfront, forceful or that dynamic or exciting... that's not what I am hearing.... at the moment it's just sounding 'right' and very well rounded ... isn't it funny how we all hear different things in our kit?
Glad you are enjoying the German bar ;)
However, as you said, I'm not worrying about what others might think of the ML as I'm the one that owns it and I'm loving it so far and am very happy that I purchased it
Well I have heard a lot of them on JBLs and that's how they come out.
And the Parasound Curl cousin on Apogees.
Failing to communicate with the locals. Whatever. Got a nice espresso Martini to contemplate. 10 Euros 50 LOL. Dark beer at 4 Euros after this one:)
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 20:14
Well I have heard a lot of them on JBLs and that's how they come out.
And the Parasound Curl cousin in Apogees.
Failing to communicate with the locals. Whatever. Got a nice espresso Martini to contemplate. 10 Euros 50 LOL. Dark beer at 4 Euros after this one:)
I can understand if that's your experience of ML gear but it's certainly not mine and you have to remember I come from a number of SET valve amps so I think I'd be quite sensitive to any upfront or forcefull/dynamic sound but I'd definitely not describe the 383 sounding anything like that, quite the opposite to be honest
Hope you enjoy your beer's... ;)
Sherwood
08-05-2019, 20:16
This discussion on the merits of the ML383 omits one essential consideration: it is being used with Magneplanar speakers rather than conventional speakers. Magneplanars present a particularly demanding load and it is rare to find an amplifier that drives them well. The discussion should reflect the obvious synergy that exists between the two components. Magneplanars can sound startlingly realistic and "alive" when driven properly, and can even deliver on bass performance. The fact that the combination "just sounds right" is testimony to this synergy.
Pigmy Pony
08-05-2019, 20:18
Glad you are loving the Luxman Justin... nice one...
However I absolutely cannot agree with you about what I'm hearing of the 383's sound... I definitely would not describe the sound of the 383 as upfront and forcefully dynamic or, indeed exciting to listen to.... totally not my experience of the 383's sound at all
It does not sound upfront, forceful or that dynamic or exciting... that's not what I am hearing.... at the moment it's just sounding 'right' and very well rounded ... isn't it funny how we all hear different things in our kit?
Glad you are enjoying the German bar ;)
However, as you said, I'm not worrying about what others might think of the ML as I'm the one that owns it and I'm loving it so far and am very happy that I purchased it
That last line says it all Bev...
I'm not jealous of your ML amp, I'm just a bit jealous of how much you're loving it. This is what we all want from our set ups. And long may it continue! :)
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 20:19
This discussion on the merits of the ML383 omits one essential consideration: it is being used with Magneplanar speakers rather than conventional speakers. Magneplanars present a particularly demanding load and it is rare to find an amplifier that drives them well. The discussion should reflect the obvious synergy that exists between the two components. Magneplanars can sound startlingly realistic and "alive" when driven properly, and can even deliver on bass performance. The fact that the combination "just sounds right" is testimony to this synergy.
I think you are right there Geoff.... I really do think there is a 'synergy' going on between the ML and the Maggies and I'm loving it so far...
I really don't mind if others find the ML gear not to their liking as, after all, it's me who owns it
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 20:23
That last line says it all Bev...
I'm not jealous of your ML amp, I'm just a bit jealous of how much you're loving it. This is what we all want from our set ups. And long may it continue! :)
Absolutely Steve.. It's how I see it
Oh and don't be jealous Steve as it's a long time since I've liked a new bit of gear as much as I like the sound of the ML, so far anyway.. ;)
I think you are right there Geoff.... I really do think there is a 'synergy' going on between the ML and the Maggies and I'm loving it so far...
I really don't mind if others find the ML gear not to their liking as, after all, it's me who owns itHey I didn't say I didn't like ML gear. The monos I heard are awesome on the right JBLs. 4367 in particular.
Whatever don't fret. Enjoy it as you are.:)
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 20:34
Hey I didn't say I didn't like ML gear. The monos I heard are awesome on the right JBLs. 4367 in particular.
Whatever don't fret. Enjoy it as you are.:)
Don't worry Justin I'm definitely not 'fretting'... everyone has their preferences in hifi gear after all
Pigmy Pony
08-05-2019, 20:34
Absolutely Steve.. It's how I see it
Oh and don't be jealous Steve as it's a long time since I've liked a new bit of gear as much as I like the sound of the ML, so far anyway.. ;)
Not really jealous, not in my nature. Hope the new CD player will shape up as well!
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 20:38
Not really jealous, not in my nature. Hope the new CD player will shape up as well!
Good o Steve...
Yes I hope the 390s will quite suit the 383. I'm really looking forward to it's arrival ;)
Certainly the 390 looks a nice bit of kit .. and I think it was about £6k new which is just a crazy price for a cd player...
Don't worry Justin I'm definitely not 'fretting'... everyone has their preferences in hifi gear after allPersonal exploration territory I reckon.
Tomorrow is going to be interesting.
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 21:05
Why what's happening tomorrow Justin ?
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 23:07
Now I have a 390 arriving soon I'm looking into how I need to make up some XLR cables... it doesn't seem very difficult so I'm sure I can make a decent set of cables for it...
I think that at that price and weight your new CD player will reveal the extent to which ML stuff is well designed as opposed to BS.
Ninanina
08-05-2019, 23:10
I think that at that price and weight your new CD player will reveal the extent to which ML stuff is well designed as opposed to BS.
Well Dennis for what I've paid for the 390 I think it's a bargain but we will see
As you say the weight of the thing amazes me as I've not owned a cd player anywhere near that heft...
I will report back as soon as I get the 390 with my initial thoughts of it...
However I will definitely miss the swing out tray of the Naim cd player as I think it's so well designed..
hifi_dave
09-05-2019, 09:35
The Naim drawer is a right ol' bodge in comparison to the ML slide out tray - barely thicker than a CD.
Ninanina
09-05-2019, 17:09
Funny I happen to really like the Naim drawer and there's nothing to go wrong with it either
The 390 slide out tray looks a bit flimsy to me
I think the 390 is being delivered tomorrow so I'll see then what the tray is like but I wont be able to place it in the system until the next day as I need Colins help to slide the amp out as it's just a bit too heavy for me
Funny I happen to really like the Naim drawer and there's nothing to go wrong with it either
The 390 slide out tray looks a bit flimsy to me
I think the 390 is being delivered tomorrow so I'll see then what the tray is like but I wont be able to place it in the system until the next day as I need Colins help to slide the amp out as it's just a bit too heavy for me
I have read reports of troubles with the 390's very thin CD tray. One of the reasons I have held off from owning one.
Don't jump up and down on it and it will probably be okay.
Ninanina
10-05-2019, 02:11
Yes I did read some people had trouble with the tray but mines coming with a warranty so hopefully it'll be ok
Frazeur1
10-05-2019, 06:13
Congrats on the new CD player, Bev. Like you, I don’t mind the swing out drawer of the Naim players either, simple and not much to go wrong there. Have to say though, I liked the transports of my old Naim CDI and CDS2 a little better, but like most things, it is what you are used to.
Have fun and enjoy your ML gear!
hifi_dave
10-05-2019, 09:18
Funny I happen to really like the Naim drawer and there's nothing to go wrong with it either
The 390 slide out tray looks a bit flimsy to me
I think the 390 is being delivered tomorrow so I'll see then what the tray is like but I wont be able to place it in the system until the next day as I need Colins help to slide the amp out as it's just a bit too heavy for me
When the 390 was introduced, one of the designers visited us with the first one in the UK and demonstrated how you could suspend the whole player, swinging on the tray, just to prove how robust it was.
So, no worries there.
Sherwood
10-05-2019, 10:15
When the 390 was introduced, one of the designers visited us with the first one in the UK and demonstrated how you could suspend the whole player, swinging on the tray, just to prove how robust it was.
So, no worries there.
Let's hope you haven't bought that specific unit! :)
Ninanina
10-05-2019, 16:48
Yes lets hope I don't have that one :doh:
It arrived today but I've not even unpacked it yet.. and it won't go into the system until tomorrow...
Pigmy Pony
10-05-2019, 17:35
Yes I did read some people had trouble with the tray but mines coming with a warranty so hopefully it'll be ok
And all because the lady loves...a tray with a warranty
Ninanina
10-05-2019, 17:51
And all because the lady loves...a tray with a warranty
:rfl:
You just crack me up Steve...
Ninanina
10-05-2019, 18:42
Just unpacked the 390 and it's a beasty....
Seems really well made to me
However I actually can't see it sounding any better than the 5XS & Dac but will see tomorrow...
Pigmy Pony
10-05-2019, 22:44
Just unpacked the 390 and it's a beasty....
Seems really well made to me
However I actually can't see it sounding any better than the 5XS & Dac but will see tomorrow...
That's the spirit! :)
Could you connect the 390 to your dac? Just a thought, or have you already offloaded the old gear? You seem to be enjoying some synergy with the 383 and the Maggies, so this should bode well for the 390...
Ninanina
10-05-2019, 22:57
That's the spirit! :)
Could you connect the 390 to your dac? Just a thought, or have you already offloaded the old gear? You seem to be enjoying some synergy with the 383 and the Maggies, so this should bode well for the 390...
Absolutely Steve... ;)
I definitely won't be connecting the 390 to the Naim Dac as I'll only use it with the 5XS.... I think Naim goes with Naim... and if I get on with the 390 then I'll be minimising the box count as well...
No I've not offloaded the old gear yet and won't for a few months just to make sure I'm happy with the ML stuff...
However, as you say, I do think I'm enjoying a sort of synergy with the 383 and the Maggies... they seem to love each other... which is nice..;)
Ninanina
11-05-2019, 02:26
Well I couldn't wait so I placed the 390 in the system. I'm stronger than I thought ;)
I have to say that even though the tray looks flimsy it actually isn't, it's made of metal and it seems quite sturdy... it also slides in and out nicely... quality
I think I'll have to take a bit of care placing the cd onto the tray as it's so thin though
Unfortunately it's too late to really play very loud so am listening at a very low volume...
Well I couldn't wait so I placed the 390 in the system. I'm stronger than I thought ;)
I have to say that even though the tray looks flimsy it actually isn't, it's made of metal and it seems quite sturdy... it also slides in and out nicely... quality
I think I'll have to take a bit of care placing the cd onto the tray as it's so thin though
Unfortunately it's too late to really play very loud so am listening at a very low volume...
Now I’m twice as jealous! I’ve eyed that 390 for some time, and it exudes quality. It was on my short list when I bought my Cary CD player, but as so often happens with used equipment, we buy from what’s available when we are ready to buy.
Your assessment of how your amp sounds is more of what I expected, from reviews I’ve read in the past. But of course associated equipment has everything to do with it. With a pair of sensitive horns it may sound completely different? So glad to hear you’re happy with your new gear!
And I don’t blame you for holding onto your old stuff, I’ve done the same! I’ve still got most of the last two stereos I’ve owned, it’s about time to sell some of it I guess. After two years I doubt I’ll go back now.
Russell
My monies on the 390 over the Naim.
:popcorn:
hifi_dave
11-05-2019, 09:04
Having stocked Naim and Levinson, demonstrating one against t'other, I can tell you there is no contest.
Well I couldn't wait so I placed the 390 in the system. I'm stronger than I thought ;)
I have to say that even though the tray looks flimsy it actually isn't, it's made of metal and it seems quite sturdy... it also slides in and out nicely... quality
I think I'll have to take a bit of care placing the cd onto the tray as it's so thin though
Unfortunately it's too late to really play very loud so am listening at a very low volume...
That was the problem I mentioned. The tray is so shallow, that unless the CD is properly located in the recess, the tray it will jam when it closes; damaging both player and disc. Take care.
Looking forward to hearing more about your player.
hifi_dave
11-05-2019, 09:55
Use it a couple of times and it is second nature. Over many years, demonstrating the 390, I never damaged a CD or caused any damage. If the CD is not seated properly, the drawer will stop and 'open' will free it.
Ninanina
11-05-2019, 17:04
Well the 390 does sound good..
However I've just unpacked the remote and it doesn't work so I will be returning the whole thing to the seller
Most of the buttons are ok but the volume down button doesn't work at all so if I wanted to use it as a pre I couldn't
I don't think I've ever received a bit of kit that doesn't work before so it's a first for me
Very disappointing
hifi_dave
11-05-2019, 17:10
Well the 390 does sound good..
However I've just unpacked the remote and it doesn't work so I will be returning the whole thing to the seller
Most of the buttons are ok but the volume down button doesn't work at all so if I wanted to use it as a pre I couldn't
I don't think I've ever received a bit of kit that doesn't work before so it's a first for me
Very disappointing
Might well be just the remote but whatever it is, it can be serviced.
Might be a setting in menu for enabling it or it may be that it has to be used as a pre for it to work. could also be a link inside etc. speak to ml
Ninanina
11-05-2019, 17:19
Yes it's definitely the remote as the button is stuck and doesn't click
The remote also looks awful, it's extremely worn with black patches where the anodising has come off
ah, so its a used model... ah well if it wasnt in the description/pics then its false advertising
Sorry to hear that Bev. :(
However listen to it a bit more and compare with your Naim to see which you prefer, before you return it.
Ninanina
11-05-2019, 17:30
It was certainly sold as all working so it will be going back...
If I was told the remote didn't work 100% then I wouldn't have purchased it. I don't actually use remotes for any of my kit so it wouldn't matter too much but as the 390 can be used as a pre it's fundamental to it's operation
I really can't understand why dealers would sell something that doesn't work, it's quite obvious it doesn't work as well
What a shame, I would be very inclined to contact the seller and get them to redress the situation, it is a lot of care, time, expense and disappointment, to have to send it back.
Cost of a new remote from the seller perhaps?
Was it bought used from a dealer or from eBay?
If a dealer then maybe something can be done about the remote. If eBay, then you can get your money back as the item was not as advertised; however I'm not sure who pays for the return carriage.
It was certainly sold as all working so it will be going back...
If I was told the remote didn't work 100% then I wouldn't have purchased it. I don't actually use remotes for any of my kit so it wouldn't matter too much but as the 390 can be used as a pre it's fundamental to it's operation
I really can't understand why dealers would sell something that doesn't work, it's quite obvious it doesn't work as well
maybe they will offer to get u a new remote to save on the return; you never know
Ninanina
11-05-2019, 17:38
I don't like all the hassle that goes with returning an item but I also hate being sold something that obviously doesn't work, so on principal I will send it back.. just the way I am I guess ;)
Ninanina
11-05-2019, 17:38
It was purchased from a dealer but not on eBay
I can understand your attitude Bev, and your disappointment. Give the dealer a good piece of your mind (and if you wish 'name names' for the benefit of other Members here).
Ninanina
11-05-2019, 17:56
I can understand your attitude Bev, and your disappointment. Give the dealer a good piece of your mind (and if you wish 'name names' for the benefit of other Members here).
I've already mailed the dealer and just kept to the facts about it not working and that I will be returning it in the same packaging it was supplied in for a refund
Once I receive a refund I will indeed 'name names' but not before just in case it rubs them up the wrong way if you know what I mean..
Over the years I've purchased loads of hifi both new and used and this is the first time I've ever received anything with a fault, maybe I've just been lucky ;)
However the 390 is a lovely bit of kit....
Spectral Morn
11-05-2019, 18:19
Sorry to hear that Bev. Hope everything goes smoothly re the return.
Maybe try and see if the dealer will source a replacement remote for you?
Maybe try and see if the dealer will source a replacement remote for you?Best advice yet.
Bev if the unit is OK, isn't that objectively the least hassle and most realistic option?
Sure you may feel like you have been crossed. But the unit isn't new. New stuff costs much more and shouldn't have any drawbacks. A screwed remote on a second hand unit for a decent price isn't such a bad thing.
Sort something out on the remote I reckon. But only if the unit justifies the price.for it's second hand condition.
I agree pretty well with Justin, and that was one option I had in mind with my earlier post, the other, a refund for the cost of the remote which you can then buy a replacement.
Good luck with whichever way you choose to go.
hifi_dave
12-05-2019, 08:57
It's a great machine so if it's just the remote, get them to source you a replacement. Spares are readily available from the distributor. Shame to let it go just for the remote.
I've just returned from the Munich show, where, inspired by your enthusiasm for your new amp, I sought out the Mark Levinson room for a visit. Luckily, when I visited they were demo'ing the latest integrated with their brand new (sa)cd player, which was impressive even with plain CDs. The set-up really gripped the speakers, and did pretty much everything you'd want from a digital source. Later, they moved onto the current ML streamer, which was also was very good, although I preferred the cd player.
Interestingly they were using a pair of JBL L100 Classic speakers, which were very impressive, with no hint of the boomy bass or cutting treble that some people complained about with 1970s originals. Apparently, although looking the same as the originals, everything else has been re-engineered, including using a very decent titanium tweeter. Came away thinking I'd like to hear a pair at home.
All in all, this was probably the best 'all-rounder' digital system I heard at the shoe, sounding excellent on a whole range of different styles of music. Actually, it was noticable that, unlike many exhibitors, they seemed to relish showing off its ability to shine with everything thrown at it, so we got to hear a really wide range of different stuff. I actually stayed for nearly an hour, just enjoying the music, so it must have been doing something right :)
FWIW, if the cd player you have is anywhere near what I heard, it must be worth trying to hang on to it? Hope the dealer does the right thing ....
Spectral Morn
12-05-2019, 11:04
If ML keep stock of a 15 year old CD Player/Processor spares, such as the RC, then thats very good, as many companies don't keep spares that long for out of production models. Always read good things about ML digital sources, but never got round to trying/hearing one.
Only thing, the remote could be a few hundred pounds to replace.
Ninanina
12-05-2019, 14:54
Well I’ve calmed down a bit now about it. ;)
The dealer has been in contact and suggested I send the remote to ML UK for repair or replacement and they will cover the cost etc. Apparently the dealer has a friend at ML
I’ve not responded yet as I know my contract is with the dealer so really they should be sorting out any problems
However the 390 itself looks pretty much like new and operates without fault and is sounding lovely
The cutting treble on the L100 is there on the revamps even with ML amplification. You'll only hear it on unsympathetic material.
Ninanina
12-05-2019, 17:14
Having further time with the 390 I can report a bit further, I think...
Firstly it's a lovely thing to actually use... it's heavy and built like a tank with nice tactile buttons and the metal drawer slides in & out with a wisper...
Sound wise I have no idea if this makes any sense but I think it 'sounds' like the amp... I know, I know how can a cd player sound like an amp? well it can't obviously, but it seems to have much the same qualities as the 383
To elaborate further I'd say it doesn't draw attention to itself and just gets on with it's job.... it does nothing wrong sound wise (so far!) .. does it sound impressive? well no not really, just like the amp .. but sounds detailed and expressive without any harshness, just like the 383
I'm going to be listening into the night so hopefully will report further when I get more of a 'handle' on it's sound
So far I'm very happy with it
Apart from the remote, of course..
The cutting treble on the L100 is there on the revamps even with ML amplification. You'll only hear it on unsympathetic material.
Big room, full of people possibly damped it ... which is why I said I'd like a home demo. Didn't check the L-pad settings they were using, either.
Ninanina
12-05-2019, 19:04
Funny I've never heard any JBL's after all these years...
Ninanina
12-05-2019, 20:01
Here it is in 'action'
http://i.imgur.com/EAmuCQR.jpg (https://imgur.com/EAmuCQR)
Pigmy Pony
12-05-2019, 20:41
Here it is in 'action'
http://i.imgur.com/EAmuCQR.jpg (https://imgur.com/EAmuCQR)
Nice, it's certainly a handsome feller, rather like me but with the added bonus that it plays CDs (and probably doesn't fart much).
Hope you get the remote issue sorted - I realise that you sort of feel that the dealer has had you over a bit, but it would be a shame to ditch the whole thing. The front seems to have all the functions you would need, and as you said before, you're not one for using remotes anyway, so waiting for a replacement shouldn't be too much of an inconvenience.
The downside of you having such an enjoyable sounding set up is that you will be so busy listening to it into the wee small hours that you will neglect the really important stuff: regaling us with your rather interesting posts about underwear and body hair "down there" :D
Ninanina
12-05-2019, 20:50
Nice, it's certainly a handsome feller, rather like me but with the added bonus that it plays CDs (and probably doesn't fart much).
Hope you get the remote issue sorted - I realise that you sort of feel that the dealer has had you over a bit, but it would be a shame to ditch the whole thing. The front seems to have all the functions you would need, and as you said before, you're not one for using remotes anyway, so waiting for a replacement shouldn't be too much of an inconvenience.
The downside of you having such an enjoyable sounding set up is that you will be so busy listening to it into the wee small hours that you will neglect the really important stuff: regaling us with your rather interesting posts about underwear and body hair "down there" :D
It certainly is a 'handsome feller' Steve.. so are you indeed handsome?
Yes I did feel 'that the dealer had me over' a bit but I've calmed down about that as the actual unit is 100% and I really don't want to give it back... It's lovely...
Is it really a 'downside' me not posting about 'underwear and body hair "down there" ?
If that's the case I'll post away :eyebrows:
Firebottle
12-05-2019, 21:04
It certainly is a 'handsome feller' Steve.. so are you indeed handsome?
He is quite a handsome chap Bev, having met him.
Don't be put off by Marco's shenanigans with the avatar, funny as they are.
Ninanina
12-05-2019, 21:10
Handsome sounds lovely..
So I'll have to ask Steve what he'd like me to post about then.... :eyebrows:
Spectral Morn
12-05-2019, 21:13
and HDCD as well :cool:
:cool:something to look for in your CD collection, you may well have a few. They do sound better decoded fully. The CD cover will say HDCD on the back.
Ninanina
12-05-2019, 21:21
and HDCD as well :cool:
:cool:something to look for in your CD collection, you may well have a few. They do sound better decoded fully. The CD cover will say HDCD on the back.
I'm not sure if I own any HDCD's but I'll take a look...
Pigmy Pony
12-05-2019, 21:37
and HDCD as well :cool:
:cool:something to look for in your CD collection, you may well have a few. They do sound better decoded fully. The CD cover will say HDCD on the back.
I don't think I've come across HDCD before - is it more an American thing? But then I rarely read CD covers/sleevenotes, as they're so very tiny and I'm so very tight and won't pay for an eye test. Not like in the good old vinyl days when you read every purchase from front to back.
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