View Full Version : Nooo...! My cleaner killed my cartridge :(
nickbaba
29-03-2019, 17:55
Nightmare :(
Despite several times mentioning that no-one messes with my TT except me, I got home yesterday to have my cleaner tell me 'oh I dusted your record player for you as it was looking dusty.'
Cue sinking feeling... sure enough on examination the Jelco arm is cocked at a weird angle and has definitely been swung out of place...gulp... what cartridge did I leave on there?
Oh #$%#!!! of course, it's my Denon DL-103SA... and the cantilever is well and truly bent off-centre. It would have to be the cartridge that is no longer made or replaceable.
Now not sure what to do... pretty sure the aluminium cantilever has been knackered... I could replace it I suppose... I have spoken to Expert Stylus and also Francois at Ana Mighty Sound in Paris... but looks like I'll be spending several hundred quid to get it back up and running and I'm not 100% it's worth it... that's pretty much what I paid for the thing...
...sigh...
Ammonite Audio
29-03-2019, 18:08
I think a DL-103SA is worth rescuing
topoxforddoc
29-03-2019, 18:16
Sorry to hear the news. I would suggest that you send it to Wyndham Hodgson at ESCo. Ask him to do the sapphire cantilever/paratrace mod. I had a pair of 103 carts rebuilt in this way last month -103C1 and standard 103. The transformation is stunning. Price was £330.
bugger,that was my mine :( it was NOS with low hrs,ok think positive,now's the time to try a different tip profile,it may transfer it to new sonic heights.
Sorry to hear about the cartridge, bloody annoying. The only thing I would recommend is check your household insurance, many years ago my wife damaged my Lyra, but I got a replacement through the insurance. Good luck.
nickbaba
29-03-2019, 18:54
Hi Jamie yes it was your one of course - and I was really bloody enjoying it too!
nickbaba
29-03-2019, 19:00
Thanks for the recommend about the sapphire cantilever/paratrace mod - will definitely look into it, and it's on budget too
Sherwood
29-03-2019, 20:32
Perhaps you should invest in one of these before any expensive repairs https://www.amazon.co.uk/Addis-Ostrich-Feather-Duster-Natural/dp/B0741GZJSW/ref=sr_1_14?keywords=feather+duster&qid=1553884111&s=gateway&sr=8-14
nickbaba
30-03-2019, 00:17
haha yes unfortunately too late for this particular cartridge!
Firstly, I recommend that you take a cat’o 9 tails to your cleaning lady! Just wow! I mean really, how upsetting, I feel your pain.
But I’ve heard that a sapphire or other such cantilever is a major upgrade for that cartridge! It may turn out to be a blessing in disguise?
Best of luck with it...
Russell
Discopants
30-03-2019, 08:03
My cleaner has insurance, not that we have ever had to use it but When she quoted us for a weekly clean the sales pitch included specific mention of insurance. It might be worth asking ?
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Not knowing what turntable you have, does it have a lid and was it down at the time?
Primalsea
30-03-2019, 14:29
Oh crap!
Yeah maybe do check if your cleaners insurance covers it, if only to make her aware that several hundred pounds of damage has been done. Whether you want to put them on the spot about it is up to you but you wouldn’t them to do it again.
more like £500 plus to replace the whole cartridge,and thats if you can find one,a new cantilever and diamond is a better option.
Hi Nick,
Really sorry to hear of your bad news. I assume that the idiot cleaner is paying for the damage out of his or her wages, that is if he or she hasn't already been sacked?:rolleyes:
No way would I be sucking up the cost of repairing or replacing the cartridge myself!
Marco.
Lawrence001
30-03-2019, 16:09
Did you mention not to touch it specifically to this cleaner? I told the woman who owns the cleaning company we use not to touch my hifi but when I worked from home the other day I spotted the (very good) cleaner dusting it and using pledge on the speakers so these messages don't always get passed on.
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i dare say if its not in writing etc youve little chance
i dare say if its not in writing etc youve little chance
If the cleaner values his or her job, and so wants to keep it, then you'd think they'd apologise and accept responsibility accordingly. I'd then deduct the cost of cartridge repair/replacement from their wages, at an agreed amount weekly or monthly.
Why should they be allowed to get away, Scott-free with their carelessness? It really annoys me when folk can't follow simple instructions!:doh:
Marco.
If the cleaner values his or her job, and so wants to keep it, then you'd think they'd apologise and accept responsibility accordingly. I'd then deduct the cost of cartridge repair/replacement from their wages, at an agreed amount weekly or monthly.
Why should they be allowed to get away, Scott-free with their carelessness? It really annoys me when folk can't follow simple instructions!:doh:
Marco.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Is the cantilever bent (i.e has a 'kink' in it), or is the whole cantilever off centre? If it is made of aluminium (and I assume it is; if it was made from boron it would have snapped), then it can be straightened.
Send it NWA, they will sort it out for you.
Lawrence001
30-03-2019, 20:37
If the cleaner values his or her job, and so wants to keep it, then you'd think they'd apologise and accept responsibility accordingly. I'd then deduct the cost of cartridge repair/replacement from their wages, at an agreed amount weekly or monthly.
Why should they be allowed to get away, Scott-free with their carelessness? It really annoys me when folk can't follow simple instructions!:doh:
Marco.Would you have the heart to make them work 50 hours plus for free to make up for the mistake? Seems rather harsh to me.
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montesquieu
30-03-2019, 20:39
Would you have the heart to make them work 50 hours plus for free to make up for the mistake? Seems rather harsh to me.
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Agreed. That's what I was thinking.
That's what I was thinking.
Not personally, unless you told them expressly not to go near THAT (the stylus) then its 'one of those things', and to think you could dock them the money and they'd be happy is laughable.
If the TT didn't have a lid and you didn't fit the stylus guard, then I don't think you can blame the cleaner, despite telling them not to dust there.
WESTLOWER
30-03-2019, 21:47
It’s a shame, a horrid experience. I know.
But stuff (shit ) happens, it just does. We all have to take one on the chin every now and then ..
I wouldn’t make the cleaner pay.
If it happens again, I’d rip the cleaners throat out :eyebrows:
But I’m afraid it’s just a bad experience all round.
Poor cleaner must feel like shite..
Would you have the heart to make them work 50 hours plus for free to make up for the mistake? Seems rather harsh to me.
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If I'd expressly told them not to go near the hi-fi and they had acknowledged that instruction and then they went ahead and did it anyway then yes, I would make them pay.
I'm pretty easy-going but nothing breaks my balls more than someone doing the exact opposite of what I've told them to do, screwing up my stuff and costing me money in the process. Then I've got no sympathy for them. It's not so much the money, can always make more of that, it's the principle of it.
nickbaba
31-03-2019, 09:58
Hi all - apologies for my silence I've been away from the laptop for a couple of days... unfortunately i was not present when the 'dusting' occurred so can't say exactly what happened. The TT is my Technics 1210 and yes the lid was on, but sadly I didn't fit the stylus guard altho' annoyingly it was lying right next to the arm... grrr... given that the Jelco arm was skewed well out of position even though it was fairly firmly held in place by the grub screw, and given that the cleaner admitted dusting under the TT, my guess is she lifted the whole thing to reach under and dropped it or caused it to fall off its granite plinth. Either that or she lifted the lid and dusted the arm etc but if she did she's not admitting to it.
Either way the damage is done. In terms of accepting responsibility, she's not with an agency, and she doesn't have any money. I can't bring myself to dock the actual cost of repair from her wages, it would be excessive. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford to repair it but she is not. Whether or not she will continue to be employed by me is another question and one I'm still trying to decide.
The cantilever is only slightly bent off-center I would say, but whether the structural integrity or stylus azimuth has been compromised I can't say myself. At the least it needs someone professional to assess it and give a verdict on the damage and potential for repair or indeed upgrade.
nickbaba
31-03-2019, 11:19
Here's a couple of pics to show the damage - as I say, not severely bent but defo off-center.
2571525716
could be straightened i think.
Ammonite Audio
31-03-2019, 11:22
could be straightened i think.
But the coil alignment and suspension would still need to be checked and adjusted.
Audio Al
31-03-2019, 11:25
Don't try and bend it back , try and squeeze on the bend with a pair of small pliers very carefully or :eek:
Not personally, unless you told them expressly not to go near THAT (the stylus) then its 'one of those things', and to think you could dock them the money and they'd be happy is laughable.
I believe that Nick told the cleaner not to go near the turntable, which is the same thing [thus the whole area was effectively out of bounds], so on the basis of ignoring a simple instruction, then yes, I'd 'have the heart' to dock their wages.
Then next time you can rest assured that, once things have been fixed, they'll not 'forget' to leave the turntable well alone!;)
Marco.
If the TT didn't have a lid and you didn't fit the stylus guard, then I don't think you can blame the cleaner, despite telling them not to dust there.
Eh?:scratch:
What does 'don't dust there' mean? It's pretty black and white, Barry, unless the cleaner was foreign!;)
If you tell someone not to do something, then they should do it. Simples.
Marco.
Just scrolled back to the OP....
Despite several times mentioning that no-one messes with my TT except me.... [etc]...
Several times, no less....
Come on, it's all very well being lenient, but how thick can you get?:rolleyes:
Marco.
Just scrolled back to the OP....
Several times, no less....
Come on, it's all very well being lenient, but how thick can you get?:rolleyes:
Marco.Doesn't say he told the cleaner though, I took this to be the family [emoji848]
Get the witness back in for further questioning!
Cleaner didn't even know she'd done it to be fair.
Get the witness back in for further questioning!I'll go look out the thumb screws and the rack [emoji23]
I'm fact to save wasting the sun on this lovely Sunday afternoon let's just take her out the back and shoot her, AFTER she's dug a decent size hole of course [emoji12][emoji23][emoji23]
Cleaner didn't even know she'd done it to be fair.
That's even worse! Does seem to me it's a case of 'Even though I've been specifically told not to I'm going to cock about by this really expensive-looking equipment without paying a blind bit of attention to what I'm doing.'
It's unforgivable really. But I suppose if she's skint you can't get blood out of a stone. And you could sack her but the new one might be even worse. Swap your expensive interconnects around for freebie leads and leave you to discover it to your horror at some indeterminate point in the future.
We still don't know IF the cleaner was told not to, the op doesn't state he specifically told the cleaner, were only assuming he did.
She might/should have insurance so claim that way, the cleaner might happily pay the repair anyway.
So many assumptions being made in this thread, but then again that's not unusual these days.
That's even worse! Does seem to me it's a case of 'Even though I've been specifically told not to I'm going to cock about by this really expensive-looking equipment without paying a blind bit of attention to what I'm doing.'
It's unforgivable really.
Nail > head.
Glad to see someone else lives in the real world!;)
Marco.
Where does it say THE CLEANER was told?
Nail > head.
Glad to see someone else lives in the real world!;)
Marco.I assume ( which is the wrong thing to to do considering my last comment lol )
But you can be a right arse at times.
Ops post doesn't say that her told the cleaner specifically, you're taking it that he did, I read it that he could mean others in the family ( again an assumption that he has any ), I suppose it's all down to interpretation of what was said, but I always look at comments like the op and think what would the law say, think any half witted lawyer could tear holes in that one.
Mind you that would only last until they then asked IF he meant he had told the cleaner, but going on that OP it could be one way or the other.
This is my opinion of course which I assume ( there's that word again lol ) I am allowed to have so be it if you don't agree with it, but I'm pretty sure I live in the real world too [emoji848]
[emoji12]
In the real world, if I was told I'd be docked a part of my wages to the tune of £750 odd, I'd no longer be under the employ of the owner. That'd possibly push them under the minimum wage unless you took £1 a week, dependent on how many hours a week they worked at that house.
I assume ( which is the wrong thing to to do considering my last comment lol )
But you can be a right arse at times.
Ops post doesn't say that her told the cleaner specifically, you're taking it that he did, I read it that he could mean others in the family ( again an assumption that he has any ), I suppose it's all down to interpretation of what was said, but I always look at comments like the op and think what would the law say, think any half witted lawyer could tear holes in that one.
Mind you that would only last until they then asked IF he meant he had told the cleaner, but going on that OP it could be one way or the other.
This is my opinion of course which I assume ( there's that word again lol ) I am allowed to have so be it if you don't agree with it, but I'm pretty sure I live in the real world too [emoji848]
[emoji12]
Excuse me, Mike, but no more of that or you'll be out for a week. We don't address each other like that on AoS.
My comments weren't made in reference to you, and I didn't insult you personally, as you've just done to me. It seems pretty certain that the cleaner was told, and even if that wasn't the case, the point Macca made above, which I highlighted in his last post, says it all.
There is no excuse for such sheer carelessness, and if it had been my cleaner, they'd have been out on their arse, tout suite!
Marco.
we can analyse this over and over till the cows come home,at the end of the day its an accident,im sure it wasn't deliberate and we dont know what relationship nick has with his cleaner. no ones fucking dead or hurt (im aloud to swear cause macca said its ok)
Sacking the poor woman isnt the answer,she may have a child to support etc, when things are bad i always think out of something negative there comes a positive.
Lawrence001
31-03-2019, 16:34
Hard to see any positives here more of a damage limitation exercise but on the assumption she's not very well off then I'd be inclined to give her one chance, I'd at least not expect her to pay it off and just let her go. Of course if she's got a nice house and car and her husband is earning a good whack, and she just does it to keep herself busy then that's another matter..
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nickbaba
31-03-2019, 17:46
Oops let me settle some of these assumptions... I was enjoying the sunday sunshine until now!
Yes I meant to say the cleaner was specifically told on more than one occasion not to mess with the hifi gear. the family already know this!
Unfortunately while well-intentioned and a nice person she's not the sharpest tool in the box, and often needs to be told something more than once before it sinks in - there's also a language barrier as she is not British. she has neither agency backing nor insurance nor wage earning husband. Although I do have house insurance which might cover some of the damage.
From what I can tell she sends most of her wages home to her family in her home country, so docking her wages takes money out of their pockets, and tbh given their circumstances they need it more than I do.
I suppose the cantilever could be saved or bent back but as its fragile aluminium its possible that the structural integrity has been compromised. I wouldn't try it myself. I'll send it off to an expert and see what the report is. Happily its not my only cart, I'm sure it can be restored/upgraded, and also happily it wasn't the DL-S1 that got knackered. :)
Hi Nick,
Oops let me settle some of these assumptions... I was enjoying the sunday sunshine until now!
Yes I meant to say the cleaner was specifically told on more than one occasion not to mess with the hifi gear. the family already know this!
Unfortunately while well-intentioned and a nice person she's not the sharpest tool in the box, and often needs to be told something more than once before it sinks in - there's also a language barrier as she is not British. she has neither agency backing nor insurance nor wage earning husband. Although I do have house insurance which might cover some of the damage.
From what I can tell she sends most of her wages home to her family in her home country, so docking her wages takes money out of their pockets, and tbh given their circumstances they need it more than I do.
I suppose the cantilever could be saved or bent back but as its fragile aluminium its possible that the structural integrity has been compromised. I wouldn't try it myself. I'll send it off to an expert and see what the report is. Happily its not my only cart, I'm sure it can be restored/upgraded, and also happily it wasn't the DL-S1 that got knackered. :)
Thanks for the clarification, and sorry for spoiling your Sunday!
Whilst the fact that she's been told on more than one occasion not to go near your hi-fi gear proves she was careless and negligent, the bit in bold puts the matter into a different perspective, and in those circumstances I'd be prepared to offer her a warning, outlining in no uncertain terms that if she does that again, she's gone. She needs to made fully aware that your hi-fi system is strictly off limits.
Anyway, I hope that you can get your cartridge fixed. Like Barry says, NWA is your best bet, as Dom's an expert on anything to do with cartridges. Good luck with it, mate - and like you say at least it wasn't the DL-S1! :cool:
Marco.
Vrajbasi
31-03-2019, 22:24
Good on ya thats the spirit, my cleaner broke a 8k koetsu i was not pleased my heart sunk but what to do, I pleaded her not to go near my gear she later on damaged a costly amplifier I will spare the details. I had to get rid of her politely of course.
I now lock my main audio room and only allow my new cleaner to clean there while I am at home. I could not deduct someones wages that would be a bit harsh the I actually found the ex cleaner work with other members of the family who do not have bits of Hifi lying around.
nickbaba
08-04-2019, 23:17
Cheers guys - well, seems the story may have a happier ending than I first expected. On the recommend of an experienced AoS fellow I sent the SA to Kilian at Holistic Audio in the Netherlands. He inspected it and concluded that it could be saved, the bent original cantilever could be heat treated and returned to full working order and would not need to be replaced. Plus stylus and suspension checked and serviced all for considerably less than the cost of replacing the cantilever let alone replacing the cartridge.
As for the cleaner - she has been given another chance on the condition that she goes nowhere near the hi-fi equipment, and on the clear understanding that if she causes any more damage to it she will be politely asked to find work elsewhere.
RobbieGong
09-04-2019, 07:39
Excellent all round Nick.
Kilian is a class act and the cleaner gets a reprieve - all's well that ends well... :thumbsup:
WESTLOWER
09-04-2019, 08:45
That's a Good ending!
All you posh folk with cleaners! :scratch:
Mikeandvan
10-04-2019, 22:03
This post could well have been called 'Oh no, I've killed my cleaner!!'
That's a Good ending!
All you posh folk with cleaners! :scratch:
Yes, "all's well that ends well". Cleaner - I'm quite capable of damaging cartridges myself without having to employ someone to do it for me"! :lol:
You mean they weren't taken out back and shot?
What is the world coming to [emoji23]
Don't know about shooting but it should be legal to waterboard them. At least for half an hour or so.
Don't know about shooting but it should be legal to waterboard them. At least for half an hour or so.Good choice [emoji23]
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