View Full Version : Tell Us Your "Goal" When Purchasing And Ssetting Up Your Audio System(s)
I would think that most (if not all) of us have a certain goal when deciding on choices for audio system components.
Is the system going to be in the home, in a vehicle, a portable on the go type etc...
Some the ease of use, but all must decide what types of "sources" are going to be used, vinyl, CD's, computer or file based digital audio, internet service and streaming audio. Some still are using tapes, reel to reel, same cassettes...I know a few people that still have 8 track players in their classic cars.
But how many think about what should be the "goal" of the audio coming out of the speakers? Should it be "changed" or altered as some people like to do or should it be left alone?
I guess that is what makes up all the different aspects of the audio hobby, different strokes for different folks.....
So the whole point of this posting is for you to add your perspective on how you look at this hobby when it come to purchasing and using your audio system(s).
Mine: A lot goes into the recording and making of a LP, CD, etc....The artist and/or song writer writes the song. Some times a lyricist is involved with writing the lyrics. A producer and maybe an arranger are picked to head up the project. Next a group of musicians are selected (if not the original artist or group) to do the actual playing of the instruments and doing the vocal tracks. A studio and engineer(s) are picked to control the recording equipment and to finally get the "sound" that all the parties involved can agree on. Once the basic and overdub tracks are recorded, then everything is mixed down to a 2 track master tape and also in some cases now a surround master is also made along with any "effects" or over "dubs" being added. Why change all that?
A lot of "stuph" going on there.........so I think the "goal" should be to try and "copy" that exact sound that they hear in the final mix down with by trying use audio gear that will do the same or as close as possible.
Anyway, just my "opinion" and I am sure others will disagree is what makes this hobby what it is.....
Do it so YOU enjoy the music. Also if you like nice looking gear then try and integrate that into your thinking.
What others think should be of minor interest
Rather like Grant said, to make listening to music a pleasure. My one bugbear is trying to keep the unruly interconnects out of sight as I do try to make my hifi pleasing to the eye as well as the ears.
I assemble equipment as part of my plot to take over the world. A small part ... but I think the effort will be worth it in the end.
blackmetalboon
22-03-2019, 20:11
My audio system is there to serve me, I’m not a slave to my audio system.
In other words it has to be ready when I need it. No faffing or fiddling needed to put some music on, no waiting for things to warm up and, most importantly, I need it to be competent in being able reproduce whatever genre of music I throw at it.
Primalsea
22-03-2019, 22:13
For me its about music that I like not about what only sounds good through my system. My hifi gear is in my front room and is very much a lifestyle system as well as a hifi system and it suits a variety of purposes. I can play internet radio, spotify, Amazon Music as well as all my CDs that have been ripped to a NAS drive. I also have vinyl playback as well. I can listen to music while I am working or pottering around the house as well as sitting on the sofa and just relaxing.
Pigmy Pony
23-03-2019, 07:13
Over the decades I've had several hobbies/interests, which I get into for a while, then leave, then return to. Most things only hold my interest for a couple of years, then are 'shelved' when something else grabs me. But motorbikes and hi-fi have endured the longest. And love of music has NEVER left me.
I can hear in my mind what my ideal system would sound like, and I would try to move towards that goal as and when funds permit (not very often), but as I find myself gaining an improvement in a particular area, another aspect of sound from my strived-for sound is compromised, eg getting a more detailed sound may cause the sound to be too bright on some recordings, and changing something to calm this down may make some music sound dull and sat-upon.
I'd love for the sound to have that visceral 'slam' where the bass drum will make my corduroy flares flap about, but I'm guessing that may cause bass issues in my rather bijou listening room. Finding the answer to that one could involve a lot of effort and expense, and I'm such a lazy tightwad.
I've never heard a system anywhere that ticks all of my above boxes (some come close) so for now I'll just enjoy what I have, but never stop dreaming of my mind's ideal system :)
I used to think of the kit as a tool to enjoy the music but somewhere along the journey the music became a tool to listen to the Hi-Fi. Upgradeitus got the better of me but the journeys been fun so there you go.
Primalsea
23-03-2019, 08:49
I used to think of the kit as a tool to enjoy the music but somewhere along the journey the music became a tool to listen to the Hi-Fi. Upgradeitus got the better of me but the journeys been fun so there you go.
At least you are straight up about it and as you say it can be fun.
I can hear in my mind what my ideal system would sound like,
Me too. After 30 years of box-swapping I am pretty much there. Partly by happy accident, partly through experience and making an effort to learn about how audio really works and applying those principles. I think I've now got a good balance between a truthful representation of the recording and a sound that is pleasant to listen to. It's not been easy! Or inexpensive! But it has been worth it. And the journey has been a lot of fun and I've made some good friends along the way.
Sensory input overload.
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Primalsea
23-03-2019, 09:01
..good balance between a truthful representation of the recording and a sound that is pleasant to listen to...
This is the key for me also. Unfortunately I still have some truely great music that just sounds terrible due to its recording production, but I guess some things you just have to accept the way they are.
Pieoftheday
23-03-2019, 09:11
Over the decades I've had several hobbies/interests, which I get into for a while, then leave, then return to. Most things only hold my interest for a couple of years, then are 'shelved' when something else grabs me. But motorbikes and hi-fi have endured the longest. And love of music has NEVER left me.
I can hear in my mind what my ideal system would sound like, and I would try to move towards that goal as and when funds permit (not very often), but as I find myself gaining an improvement in a particular area, another aspect of sound from my strived-for sound is compromised, eg getting a more detailed sound may cause the sound to be too bright on some recordings, and changing something to calm this down may make some music sound dull and sat-upon.
I'd love for the sound to have that visceral 'slam' where the bass drum will make my corduroy flares flap about, but I'm guessing that may cause bass issues in my rather bijou listening room. Finding the answer to that one could involve a lot of effort and expense, and I'm such a lazy tightwad.
I've never heard a system anywhere that ticks all of my above boxes (some come close) so for now I'll just enjoy what I have, but never stop dreaming of my mind's ideal system :)
What was/is your ideal bike Steve? My happiest memories are of a1987 Kawasaki aAR125,the one I passed my test on and a1991 I think nope it would've been 94,Yamaha FZR600 foxeye, happy days.
Like Macca, I've got about 30 Years of a journey of progressive ventures into building a system.
No Journey shares too many differences, the pursuit of introducing devices to a system, whether, Off The Shelf,
Second Hand, Commision Built, or Self Built.
The end goal is to produce a home system, that is totally satisfying to the end user, hopefully the end user can't see many further options at a certain stage of their journey, they have developed their Plateau and are in a contented place.
Modern Technologies evolving may be attractive, and will no doubt trigger further investigations,
Digital Devices entering into the arena, to battle it out for a place of honour.
I myself am up for this experience, I would much enjoy discovering a Digital Media replay set up, that makes me
completely re-think some of my past inherent predudices, I know for sure the old thoughts on this subject are being dismantled, just for the case of sheer affordabilty and convenience, let alone a few of the recent experiences, where SQ was jaw dropping good, so look forward to the day, old predjudices are distant memories.
The Sytem I had on Show at Kegworth was for a good proportion of its time being auditioned, sourced from a
used value £40 CD Player. The SQ was admired and praised by listeners, on revealing the CDP's value, there was a variety of reactions, disbelief being one that was obvious.
If I number crunch, I can put a guesstimate of £55.00ish per month spent on my interest over 30 years.
I am a hoarder he sells little, so there is a very good return to be had on certain items.
So if the owned devices were sold on without the Vinyl Collection, the overall cost could quite easily reduce to £35.00ish per month.
For either guesstimate figure, that is a Bargain if ever there was one for pursuit of a hobby.
I only wanted a little music.
Little did I know I'd end up spending a small fortune and end up building my own, almost there,,,,, I THINK???
This is the key for me also. Unfortunately I still have some truely great music that just sounds terrible due to its recording production, but I guess some things you just have to accept the way they are.
Indeed. For me, it's ALL about (as far as possible) achieving a truthful presentation, by 'opening the window' and keeping it as 'clean' as possible. Therefore, the sound is "pleasant" when the recording allows it to be, and vice versa, when it doesn't.
The problem with intentionally creating a "pleasant sound", through equipment/speaker/cable selection and/or otherwise, is that you're in turn closing/dirtying the window a little, simply to make bad recordings listenable, which subsequently results in diluting the clarity/openness, and ultimately resolution, of the BEST recordings - ones that don't need 'tailoring' and can truly make your system sound stunning, and music vividly real!
Therefore, I always aim for the purist 'warts and all' approach [allowing recordings to 'breathe' and speak for themselves], as for me that's ultimately what's most rewarding, and which is what I've largely achieved with my system.
If you get it right, a revealing system won't 'trash' bad recordings (still make them listenable), but simply show them up for what they are. The listening experience, no matter the quality of the recording, should always showcase the music and put a smile on your face. It's a tricky balance to get right, but it can be done, and after many years, that's pretty much where I'm at now with my system:cool:
Marco.
RobbieGong
23-03-2019, 13:29
Yep, Purist warts and all approach absolutely.
I've never tried to 'create' musicality, emotion, boogie or whatever else we often seek.
I've always wanted to hear only the recorded music in those grooves through a system that pulls out and replays as close to just that as poosible.
As such I've gone for kit I know has been made with intent for reproducing the recording sound in a pure and true sense. Therefore having a largely neutral, quality electronics and implementation, low low distortion and an out of the way dna rather than imposing a particular colour or flavour to the proceedings.
Coupled with this I've tried to ensure resonances throughout are addressed - crap out and all that.
As a result I've experienced vinyl replay / recorded music sound what I would call as close to master tape as I could ever have hoped for.
tbh ive not really found anything that makes bad recordings any better in a real sense. I strive to get good music as good as i can to my ears...
Yep, Purist warts and all approach absolutely.
I've never tried to 'create' musicality, emotion, boogie or whatever else we often seek.
I agree, it's up to the band and the recording engineers to deliver that.
On the other hand I think a full-on studio control room sound is not what I want when relaxing after a hard day at the office. I want it tempered down just a little bit.
The way I see it there is no right or wrong way, if a man is happy with his sounds then he's got it right, regardless of what equipment he is using or what anyone else thinks. I have heard systems where I think 'Christ, I couldn't live with that for five minutes', not because they were unpleasant to listen to but because they were nothing like what I think a hi-fi system should sound like.
Sherwood
23-03-2019, 13:54
:whistle:Multiple eargasms :whistle:
Yep, Purist warts and all approach absolutely.
I've never tried to 'create' musicality, emotion, boogie or whatever else we often seek.
I've always wanted to hear only the recorded music in those grooves through a system that pulls out and replays as close to just that as poosible.
As such I've gone for kit I know has been made with intent for reproducing the recording sound in a pure and true sense. Therefore having a largely neutral, quality electronics and implementation, low low distortion and an out of the way dna rather than imposing a particular colour or flavour to the proceedings.
Coupled with this I've tried to ensure resonances throughout are addressed - crap out and all that.
As a result I've experienced vinyl replay / recorded music sound what I would call as close to master tape as I could ever have hoped for.
You've got to watch though, that in the quest for 'balls-out rez', you don't sacrifice musicality/listenability.
There are a lot of systems I've heard which the owner claims produces a sound that's "close to master tape", "highly accurate", "transparent" or whatever, but which in reality simply majors on creating hi-fi effects, not music, and fundamentally lacks 'soul'. Also, when listening to a good hi-fi system, you need to be able to 'relax into the music' and not be stressed by the sound.
Therefore, if you can sit down and enjoy listening to your system for hours on end, with a variety of different music/quality of recordings, without experiencing listener fatigue, and it all sounds great, then chances are you've got the balance pretty much spot on...:)
My way of injecting the necessary musicality, whilst still wedging open the 'rez window' as widely as possible, is by marrying the best of old and new technology [such as using a vintage CDP and DAC, but upgrading it with the best modern components, or running a pair of 1960s speakers with similarly upgraded crossovers], plus introducing a few glowing bottles, at key points into the equation. Or fitting a vintage SPU to a Techy!:D;)
That yin/yang approach, if done right, seems to work well!:cool:
Marco.
Haselsh1
23-03-2019, 14:43
A sound system that has a sound that makes me grin. If I grin then I know it has to be good.
RobbieGong
23-03-2019, 14:44
Agree and Yep,
You know me Marco, Overly transparent can be too airy, thin, light and real analogue in my experience doesnt sound like that for me.
The reproduction / music played has to sound right, possessing that natural analogue body otherwise as you say it's too hifi (for want of a better) word / refined out an absolute no no for a multi genre, music loving, reggae, soul fiend like myself :)
Beautiful music ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1SkJVV8FF8
Pigmy Pony
23-03-2019, 16:18
What was/is your ideal bike Steve? My happiest memories are of a1987 Kawasaki aAR125,the one I passed my test on and a1991 I think nope it would've been 94,Yamaha FZR600 foxeye, happy days.
Just a quick digression, to answer James' question:
At the risk of sounding smug, my current bike (had it 13 years now), my '03 FireBlade is my ideal bike. Does everything I want (although I didn't want it to spit me off last autumn) :( But my happiest memories are with my Suzuki X7, when Peter Gabriel's "Games without Frontiers" and UB40's "Food For Thought" were in the charts (even my biking memories are tied in with the tunes of that time!). Even a trip to the shops on that bike was an adventure. Probably how you felt about your AR125 :)
Dead neutral is not what you want IMHO.
I find it interesting that a lot of hardcore designers spend years looking for the perfect circuit, yet end up tuning distortion characteristics, favouring *adding* a sprinkling of second harmonic, yet keeping 3rd and odd harmonics down.
The most listenable systems are the ones that are to some extent sympathetic to the music format and production, not ruthlessly exposing it.
This is why it’s such a subjective game.
I favour a fast, tight, open sound, but with a bit of a warm balance, definitely no harsh sibilance.
This is, I think anyway, a very good thread and has solicited a lot of excellent responses (many of which have resonated with myself). I think what I have always wanted is a system that connects me with the emotion of the music, the zeitgeist. What this means is that it isn’t easy listening; well not when you listen to the kind of music I tend to favour. I’m not really interested in listening at background levels and it’s really emotionally tiring to go to the equivelant (at least that is how it feels) of three or four gigs one after another - it’s a hell of an experience though :).
Dead neutral is not what you want IMHO.
I find it interesting that a lot of hardcore designers spend years looking for the perfect circuit, yet end up tuning distortion characteristics, favouring *adding* a sprinkling of second harmonic, yet keeping 3rd and odd harmonics down.
The most listenable systems are the ones that are to some extent sympathetic to the music format and production, not ruthlessly exposing it.
This is why it’s such a subjective game.
I favour a fast, tight, open sound, but with a bit of a warm balance, definitely no harsh sibilance.
I largely agree, Neil, and favour a similar sound. In terms of the bit in bold however, how do you set about achieving that?:)
Marco.
Cataclysmic dynamics, grandiose scale.
I am making terse, unqualified posts to make a point. Let me carry on for a bit:)
Excuse the phone identifying posts - it's not my phone. Really.
“The most listenable systems are the ones that are to some extent sympathetic to the music format and production, not ruthlessly exposing it.”
By format do you mean vinyl or CD, for example? As for production, well that is a partisan quality and, by definition, suggests that such a system will favour one approach over another..,,
Pieoftheday
23-03-2019, 20:21
Just a quick digression, to answer James' question:
At the risk of sounding smug, my current bike (had it 13 years now), my '03 FireBlade is my ideal bike. Does everything I want (although I didn't want it to spit me off last autumn) :( But my happiest memories are with my Suzuki X7, when Peter Gabriel's "Games without Frontiers" and UB40's "Food For Thought" were in the charts (even my biking memories are tied in with the tunes of that time!). Even a trip to the shops on that bike was an adventure. Probably how you felt about your AR125 :)
Nice, yes sorry to thread crap:doh:
“The most listenable systems are the ones that are to some extent sympathetic to the music format and production, not ruthlessly exposing it.”
By format do you mean vinyl or CD, for example? As for production, well that is a partisan quality and, by definition, suggests that such a system will favour one approach over another..,,
Both formats come with flaws, but in particular I meant CD. Pro audio monitor style is just too clinical for me. I want a neutral system overall but with a little bit of rosy tinted warm sound, so I can deal with the ‘80%’ of rubbish production instead of maxing the ‘20%’ of decent production out. As you say, emotional connection, not distraction.
I largely agree, Neil, and favour a similar sound. In terms of the bit in bold however, how do you set about achieving that?:)
Marco.
By not having too “explicit” a system. Backing off a bit and not chasing the last ounce of transparency. :)
This is, I think anyway, a very good thread and has solicited a lot of excellent responses (many of which have resonated with myself). I think what I have always wanted is a system that connects me with the emotion of the music, the zeitgeist. What this means is that it isn’t easy listening; well not when you listen to the kind of music I tend to favour. I’m not really interested in listening at background levels and it’s really emotionally tiring to go to the equivelant (at least that is how it feels) of three or four gigs one after another - it’s a hell of an experience though :).
Agree - i want the music to move me, remind me, make me feel...music is the story of your life, it's all about the emotion
Agree - i want the music to move me, remind me, make me feel...music is the story of your life, it's all about the emotion
...and getting a HiFi system to connect with your emotion is the big challenge. It takes time and experience, maybe a little luck, always a bit of “taste”.
It is a projection of your inner selves onto an artefact, but I use the whole hobby to toughen myself up, such is the torture of the endeavour.
I'm aiming for a system that allows me to hear "the sound of one hand clapping". :D
walpurgis
25-03-2019, 23:48
I'm aiming for a system that allows me to hear "the sound of one hand clapping". :D
Play some King Crimson.
Cataclysmic dynamics, grandiose scale.
I am making terse, unqualified posts to make a point. Let me carry on for a bit:)
Excuse the phone identifying posts - it's not my phone. Really.Well, it goes like this...
The dream belongs to the dreamer.
paulf-2007
03-04-2019, 18:17
You've got to watch though, that in the quest for 'balls-out rez', you don't sacrifice musicality/listenability.
Therefore, if you can sit down and enjoy listening to your system for hours on end, with a variety of different music/quality of recordings, without experiencing listener fatigue, and it all sounds great, then chances are you've got the balance pretty much spot on...:)
Marco.now I had that balance( compromise ) but now I'm listening to these Lii audio fast 10 drivers in tqwt boxes I'm experiencing a another level of quality, a bit like what lowthers do best but are compromised as we all know. These do wonderful highs and mids along with astonishing bass but don't take any prisoners when it comes to poor recordings. I have a long list of saved songs on Spotify that I run through and with these drivers some, not many, sound dreadfully muddled, a symptom of full range single drivers I hear you say and usually I would agree but the majority of the music is sublime, so what do I do, accept a compromise in kit or music. Jury is out for the moment.
Sounds like you might have gone too “forensic” with the sonic balance. I would not be using Spotify if you have hyper-detail, must use lossless.
Lawrence001
06-04-2019, 13:07
now I had that balance( compromise ) but now I'm listening to these Lii audio fast 10 drivers in tqwt boxes I'm experiencing a another level of quality, a bit like what lowthers do best but are compromised as we all know. These do wonderful highs and mids along with astonishing bass but don't take any prisoners when it comes to poor recordings. I have a long list of saved songs on Spotify that I run through and with these drivers some, not many, sound dreadfully muddled, a symptom of full range single drivers I hear you say and usually I would agree but the majority of the music is sublime, so what do I do, accept a compromise in kit or music. Jury is out for the moment.My Jordan speakers are a nice compromise between detail and musicality and are more forgiving of poorer recordings. I agree with the point about Spotify, you want red book as a minimum resolution.
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My aim has always to achieve reproduction of what the producer/engineer and artists were aiming for when making the recording. Back in the day I was in the Rock business as a lighting designer and did spend some time in studio control rooms watching and listening. Typically the monitor system consisted of a pile of Quad 303 or crown DC300 amps frequently driving big JBL monitors though Tannoy and Rogers were also in some studios and at the BBC. The better engineers also had a pair of really nasty small cheap speakers. During recording most used headphones often Beyer Dynamic or really high end KOSS using the speakers to replay to the artist , record execs and the like usually rather too loud! The cheap speaker were used when none of those were around to get how the track would sound on cheap radio or record players, this was never played to band or record execs but did influence the mix. Live sound was usually loud but a way's off the clarity of even a mid range hi-fi. I did hear a few concerts where the sound was really hi fi. In live situations room acoustics were the major problem followed by getting enough volume out of quiet instruments and vocals to get over excessive stage amplification and brutal drummers! Crap amps didn't help, all the HiFi sounds came through speaker systems driven by Crown DC300s!
So my systems aim to get to the sort of sound that would have been in the control room however at domestic listening levels. Certainly some period equipment is in the system as are period LPs. Other signal sources are used including "loudness wars" remastered CDs and steaming. These sources relay he music but nether the artists original intent or the experience. My system does very dramatically show the skill ( or frequently lack !) of the original engineer / mastering engineer so for relaxing listening these days it will be jazz or classical rather than rock that is getting played.
I am pretty happy with current set ups though some LPs are better on the valve set up others better on the Quad. I am guessing that the original monitoring systems could have significantly affected the mix not to mention mastering and ageing ears!
Kevan
Discopants
14-04-2019, 23:52
Ive been upgrading my system for the past year with a goal of getting ‘hairs on the back of your neck’ level HIFI quality sound from purely streamed sources. I wanted a system that will play the whole gamut of musical genres and I want a clean sound true to how the artists and sound engineers intended the works to sound.
I think I’ve achieved that in the last couple of weeks with some recent tweaks and isolation systems thats I’ve just added. [emoji3]
I’m about 15% over my original budget , i do still want to do a little more work on my system in the short term to tidy things up but i need to reign in the spending to what I can sell a few unwanted items for.
I don’t really understand the comments about not wanting to play spotify with a revealing system though... to my mind its like any source there are good quality recordings and not so good quality recordings , that goes for vinyl, cd and HQ mp3s on spotify. There are plenty of very good sounding materials on spotify and you tube now.
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